You do realize virtualbox is a toy, right? Anyway, I have it working in my Yosemite desktop, so how come it does not work? Do not take me wrong, but are you still running 32 bit binaries???
You do not get it. I am in Debian because I did not want to compile things by hand and FreeBSD was too much work compared to Debian. That was a decade ago, after using most of the commercial distros under the sun. But being in Debian because I am lazy does not means I can not go back. I prefer to go back to something more flexible than having a lot of work to sidestep artificial limitations.
Amen, I also have invested 10-15 years in Debian, and I am also considering to switch. But no, it is not only the present and past. I had a very clear strategy for the future how I wanted to do administration with Linux, and now I will have to think it over. For now I have managed to install Debian 8 servers in my pre-production/testing networking to start exploring it *without* systemd, not without first had to pin to -1 systemd, but I do not have any doubts over the next versions it will become increasingly difficult to sidestep it.
To be fair, I used to be a rookie sysadmin in the BSD land when I switched to Linux. Enduring the crossing of desert with RedHat till I found Debian. In reality I concede over the years Linux overcame much of the bridge of performance that it was lacking from FreeBSD. It is true indeed that it has much more fluff and a lot of strange processes installed, but any half decent sysadmin can control that, and not installing/deactivating them. However, I the death knell for me of Linux is this whole systemd fiasco. I am strongly considering returning to my origins.
Amen, I used Linux and promoted it in a lot of places, and still am the one that put Debian here, but I will go back to FreeBSD after all those years. I once left FreeBSD because the alternative was more open, had more choice and specially because it had a better package management system, but after all those years, these reasons are disappearing. And oddly enough, every single time you talk about this, there comes an idiot insulting you, or trying to diminish your talk dragging you with him in the mud.
It is a pity you have so much sour grapes over people who actually know things. You are still in time to whip out something and learn. Learn about technology and learn how to grow up and be an adult. And stop eating so much junk food, it is not doing you well. If a kid can learn it, do it then, instead of paying someone to do it.
I am not getting something. The original poster talked about his desktop, right? Why all this nonsense about feeling from systemd or OS/X being too restrictive? I care about optimising my servers, in my desktop I just want something that works and is nice to use.
The question is why I do want to remove it. The proper question is why in a what should be a simple operation of an upgrade, why my server configs are changed without my asking and without my authorization. So I upgrade to find my way of working, the default corporate configurations that were pre-approved, and my hand-crafted scripts to safeguard some services are no longer working. All because of a whim of some boneheaded developers. Very nice indeed. As for politics, besides the configuration pre-approvals, we follow the Unix way of installing the bare essential, and systemd brings on-board a lot of crap and stupid package dependencies for a bare bones server.
And what if pigs fly? Now what? The problem is that many of us came from the BSD/proprietary field (including Windows and *BSD) to Debian to escape shortcomings, stupid political decisions, and coupled to that the power of choice of defining to a large extent our environment. The systemd folks made a political decision to change all that, and our stay is no longer justified. *BSD also has matured a lot since we left it, and many of its shortcomings that made me us choose Debian despite Linux shortcomings over FreeBSD have been fixed by now. Anyway, why fuck with a place where I am there, because today I can go around on my shorts and underwear, and tomorrow in my tuxedo, and force everyone who wants to go out to wear business clothes, black shoes, black hats and white shirts? That is madness.
The problem I have it is that besides being modular it has some malware properties and appears in my servers after what should be a simple operation of a version bump.
I also use resolv.conf in Debian 7 & 8 and do not have resolvconf installed.;) Someone already answered glibc still uses it. I will add resolvconf is more adequate for clients/DHCP configurations, on the server side where you just touch/etc/resolv.conf once when installing, you are just complicating your setup.
Regards
I do not have even to answer why I want to *remove* it. The proper answers are, why it is there when I havent asked for it, and why it goes out of its way to change corporate servers config on purpose on what should be a mere upgrade. There, fixed the question for you. What next, you will ask why I dont want to be raped?
Lots count of their security problems, and they took days to fix HeartBleed. Yes, this move makes perfect sense. I am not entirely sure it makes a sound business decision, or it is the last coffin in the nail for me in what respects firefox. Dickheads.
I do agree that while I could swear I do have some kind of protection (read the conditions some years ago), it is not entirely clear I enjoy the same protection of a real credit card.
I stayed to a lot of hotels when in business over several years and always refused to give them my CC. Never had a problem, and never trashed the place too. I also stayed in some parts of the world where I would not trust them with my CC details.
Mind you I was not attempting any kind of fraud. It is just that around here people do not usually ask your CC for booking, I did not trust them, and plus, the site is very explicit the card wont be used IF the customers show up. Cutting the story short, nowadays my parents stay at a more sensible place or at my new home.
My god...Sorry for the correction, but the omissions are too bad. Indeed, it is Debian voting against choice. We know better [than you]. Slapping our face and ignoring we are using them because Debian used to give us back the power of choice other environments took away from us. Smart move, shall I say.
Indeed, it is Debian voting against choice. We know better. Slapping our face and ignoring we are using them because Debian used to restore to use the power of choice other environments too away from us. Smart move, shall I say.
My test installations were (almost) barebone servers, between 300-500 MB, Wheezy servers. No Gnome, no X, nothing complicated. And sysv init. The test servers were running each one a single service daemon besides ssh... one was dhcpd, the other Apache, another BIND, and the last one MySQL. Each and everyone of them, upon upgrade to Jessie, ignored the sysv installation and installed systemd without any warning or request to do it. The sysinit packages were *ignored*. And once I booted one of them, it was not trivial to get rid of systemd. Either you deinstall it before booting, and upgrade manually sys v init packages, or pin systemd to -1 BEFORE upgrading to jessie. I took the last approach, and in my Wheezy production services I already propagated a configuration to pin systemd in all of them, bidding for the time of their eventual upgrade.
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You do realize virtualbox is a toy, right? Anyway, I have it working in my Yosemite desktop, so how come it does not work? Do not take me wrong, but are you still running 32 bit binaries???
Who cares about drivers? We are running all our systems on virtualisation farms...
You do not get it. I am in Debian because I did not want to compile things by hand and FreeBSD was too much work compared to Debian. That was a decade ago, after using most of the commercial distros under the sun. But being in Debian because I am lazy does not means I can not go back. I prefer to go back to something more flexible than having a lot of work to sidestep artificial limitations.
Amen, I also have invested 10-15 years in Debian, and I am also considering to switch. But no, it is not only the present and past. I had a very clear strategy for the future how I wanted to do administration with Linux, and now I will have to think it over. For now I have managed to install Debian 8 servers in my pre-production/testing networking to start exploring it *without* systemd, not without first had to pin to -1 systemd, but I do not have any doubts over the next versions it will become increasingly difficult to sidestep it.
To be fair, I used to be a rookie sysadmin in the BSD land when I switched to Linux. Enduring the crossing of desert with RedHat till I found Debian. In reality I concede over the years Linux overcame much of the bridge of performance that it was lacking from FreeBSD. It is true indeed that it has much more fluff and a lot of strange processes installed, but any half decent sysadmin can control that, and not installing/deactivating them. However, I the death knell for me of Linux is this whole systemd fiasco. I am strongly considering returning to my origins.
Amen, I used Linux and promoted it in a lot of places, and still am the one that put Debian here, but I will go back to FreeBSD after all those years. I once left FreeBSD because the alternative was more open, had more choice and specially because it had a better package management system, but after all those years, these reasons are disappearing. And oddly enough, every single time you talk about this, there comes an idiot insulting you, or trying to diminish your talk dragging you with him in the mud.
It is a pity you have so much sour grapes over people who actually know things. You are still in time to whip out something and learn. Learn about technology and learn how to grow up and be an adult. And stop eating so much junk food, it is not doing you well. If a kid can learn it, do it then, instead of paying someone to do it.
What mouse? I have an external trackpad.
I am not getting something. The original poster talked about his desktop, right? Why all this nonsense about feeling from systemd or OS/X being too restrictive? I care about optimising my servers, in my desktop I just want something that works and is nice to use.
The humanity...
The question is why I do want to remove it. The proper question is why in a what should be a simple operation of an upgrade, why my server configs are changed without my asking and without my authorization. So I upgrade to find my way of working, the default corporate configurations that were pre-approved, and my hand-crafted scripts to safeguard some services are no longer working. All because of a whim of some boneheaded developers. Very nice indeed. As for politics, besides the configuration pre-approvals, we follow the Unix way of installing the bare essential, and systemd brings on-board a lot of crap and stupid package dependencies for a bare bones server.
It is not afraid of change, is about having the power of choice asshat. It is like saying now they only sell brown cars and I am afraid of change.
And what if pigs fly? Now what? The problem is that many of us came from the BSD/proprietary field (including Windows and *BSD) to Debian to escape shortcomings, stupid political decisions, and coupled to that the power of choice of defining to a large extent our environment. The systemd folks made a political decision to change all that, and our stay is no longer justified. *BSD also has matured a lot since we left it, and many of its shortcomings that made me us choose Debian despite Linux shortcomings over FreeBSD have been fixed by now. Anyway, why fuck with a place where I am there, because today I can go around on my shorts and underwear, and tomorrow in my tuxedo, and force everyone who wants to go out to wear business clothes, black shoes, black hats and white shirts? That is madness.
Exactly. I don have a single complaint about systemd as long you dont ram it up my ass.
The problem I have it is that besides being modular it has some malware properties and appears in my servers after what should be a simple operation of a version bump.
I also use resolv.conf in Debian 7 & 8 and do not have resolvconf installed. ;) Someone already answered glibc still uses it. I will add resolvconf is more adequate for clients/DHCP configurations, on the server side where you just touch /etc/resolv.conf once when installing, you are just complicating your setup.
Regards
I do not have even to answer why I want to *remove* it. The proper answers are, why it is there when I havent asked for it, and why it goes out of its way to change corporate servers config on purpose on what should be a mere upgrade. There, fixed the question for you. What next, you will ask why I dont want to be raped?
Lots count of their security problems, and they took days to fix HeartBleed. Yes, this move makes perfect sense. I am not entirely sure it makes a sound business decision, or it is the last coffin in the nail for me in what respects firefox. Dickheads.
I do agree that while I could swear I do have some kind of protection (read the conditions some years ago), it is not entirely clear I enjoy the same protection of a real credit card.
I stayed to a lot of hotels when in business over several years and always refused to give them my CC. Never had a problem, and never trashed the place too. I also stayed in some parts of the world where I would not trust them with my CC details.
Mind you I was not attempting any kind of fraud. It is just that around here people do not usually ask your CC for booking, I did not trust them, and plus, the site is very explicit the card wont be used IF the customers show up. Cutting the story short, nowadays my parents stay at a more sensible place or at my new home.
before virtual cards existed, thanks for pointing it out.
My god...Sorry for the correction, but the omissions are too bad. Indeed, it is Debian voting against choice. We know better [than you]. Slapping our face and ignoring we are using them because Debian used to give us back the power of choice other environments took away from us. Smart move, shall I say.
Indeed, it is Debian voting against choice. We know better. Slapping our face and ignoring we are using them because Debian used to restore to use the power of choice other environments too away from us. Smart move, shall I say.
My test installations were (almost) barebone servers, between 300-500 MB, Wheezy servers. No Gnome, no X, nothing complicated. And sysv init. The test servers were running each one a single service daemon besides ssh... one was dhcpd, the other Apache, another BIND, and the last one MySQL. Each and everyone of them, upon upgrade to Jessie, ignored the sysv installation and installed systemd without any warning or request to do it. The sysinit packages were *ignored*. And once I booted one of them, it was not trivial to get rid of systemd. Either you deinstall it before booting, and upgrade manually sys v init packages, or pin systemd to -1 BEFORE upgrading to jessie. I took the last approach, and in my Wheezy production services I already propagated a configuration to pin systemd in all of them, bidding for the time of their eventual upgrade.