Despite my protest of the website and my call to ignore them, you've made some really, really good points.
I don't think 'leadership' is one of them tho.
I agree that MS is banking on the Linux community shying away, but it's safe to say they're mistaken. I don't think there is a single Linux user that doubts for a second that Linux would beat MS' OS like a redheaded stepchild.
We need to make darned sure that this test is on the up-and-up tho. I don't trust this situation.
The inflamatory wording of that page is shameless. Perhaps Microsoft should be reminded that their first attempt was such a hack job that it could only be filed as "incompetent" or "deceptive". My (as well as others) suggestion is to simply ignore them. They had their opportunity and they fumbled it. Hard. In fact it's safe to say they tried to juice the ball.
And to the MS droids that undoubtedly monitor this website, here is a message...
I talk to perhaps five or six dozen people a day, mostly because of your half-assed OS. Assuming we accept the posit of each negative comment getting passed to a few people more, your most recent FUD tactics have just earned you a few thousand black eyes from me alone because each time their box locks up, each time your memeory management horks what they've been working on all morning, my explanation will be simple:
Microsoft has tricked you into buying an incompetant Operating System. Expect this loss of data/time to happen again. Adding insult to injury, they made you pay for the patches. And there is an alternative...
I'll admit, I've already taken the 18th and the 19th off but after reading the reviews, I'm not sure I want to blow two days of vacation to watch souped-up Ewoks.
"I can't be the only one who figured out the "big secret" 20 minutes into the movie without already knowing about it."
I thought that TCG's secret was one of the best of all time! I couldn't get anyone to spill the damned secret. And I don't suppose I'm bright enough to have gotten that myself. Then again, I never did figure out who did it on Murder She Wrote before the end...
"The original star wars was nowhere near as good as the other two."
Are you shooting crack directly into your skull?
"In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Episode III was absolute crap in terms of effects, acting, etc."
Episode III hasn't been released.
"The story line was all that was good/important about Episode IV. And the only purpose of the Episode IV story line was to serve as a base for Episode V and VI."
Aside from making yourself out to be just a tad bit less than bright, what's your point?
Even without his contribution to the war, Turing should be honored in every darn CS department - American or not. I'm actually stunned that they've received no sponsorship. Christmas!, even if only for the PR. Gr.
The answer is (unfortunately) complex. Let me preface this by saying that I don't blame the media or the game industry - the burden is not upon them to take responsibility for the actions of their viewers.
It's obvious that there is an unprecedented assortment of tools and information to kids. Fifteen years ago, people may have been just as pissed off as they are today, but they simply didn't have the resources to execute them. How many kids knew how to make napalm before The Anarchist Cookbook hit the shelves?
Another issue is "allowability". I don't think you had kids thinking about blowing their classmates skulls off in the context of actually doing it. Again, I'm not holding media creators accountable - each person is responsible for themselves - but I'm quite sure that Natural Born Killers gave a few people some interesting ideas. Unfortunately, the emphasis is on laying blame, but laying blame isn't accurate nor even helpful.
In summation, I think that it needs to be recoginized that as our civilization grows and becomes more mature, there will be people that snap and do things like this. To treat it as an avoidable abberition is just plain silly.
I think what will come out of all this is not nessesarily Linux superiority but an understanding that there is a choice. I began tooling with Debian and RedHat a few months ago for reasons everyone can relate to - downright pissed-offedness at the shoddiness of MS' progeny. I am now goofing w/Solaris and thinking about playing with FreeBSD and/or VAX.
This is a paradigm shift, as much as I despise that word. =)
tcharron wrote: "I have to say that point 1 a VERY good one. I feel points 2 and 3 are in there to artificially help the free software movement and NOT to help solve the Microsoft dilemma."
Helping the free software movement will (by default) benefit consumers.
Someone wrote: You are basically arguing that Microsoft should get a slap on the wrist and be sent on its way.
You responded: To be honest, yes, that is what I think should happen--because I don't think they have done anything wrong.
Now that we're at least on the right subject (instead of makin it a "crappy software" issue), I'm not sure how you can come to this conclusion. I'd like for you to break down the governments case and show how what MS has done is not unfair. This, I would find incredibly interesting.
While you do make some valid points under normal circumstances, you're entirely missing the point that Microsoft has gained an enormous advantage by doing illegal things. This has resulted in profit not only for itself, but taken profit away from other businesses.
DrDOS is only one example. It could be argued that everything that MS is is due to their using illegal tactics and is therefore forfeit.
Your argument is a bit like saying that since a person is a human being, when they break the law they can't be sent to jail because then they lose their freedom, their friends, etc. When MS breaks the law, they have to be punished in a way that is commensurate to the harm done. If you want to argue that Stallman is going overboard and is being excessive, fine. But you're fundamentally misunderstanding the governments case here.
I was just suggesting this yesterday to a friend. I'm thinking about getting a small dorm-style fridge and just cracking it and piping the thermometer and the cooling to the unit - sealing it up nice-nice and letting it rock. =)
Say, I have a 166MMX Cyrix (stop laughing), a Sparc1+ coming in this friday, and I'm quite sure I'll have two AMDK6-300's in shortly. What is the best way to manage such things? Anyone have any good links for rack mounts?
I'm all of 26 years old and I recall playing with a PDP11 in my father's office. Ah, those were the days of platters and the clackety-clack of the punch machine. Nothing more fun that making lace cards to piss my pop off. =)
But MY first drive was a 40m'er. I donated a 100m to a local bbs and was immediately given god status. That was way back in...what? 1991? Heh.
Hm. I always thought it was Read The Fine Manual. [grin]
But seriously, sometimes I just don't know where to look. Man pages aren't exactly the panacea of understanding either. Even O'Reilly says that using man to learn (uni|linu)x is like trying to learn English by reading a dictionary.
I was on the fence about Linux/Win98 because I adore Photoshop 5.0 and didn't know much about Wine. A friend of mine (ChrisC) stopped by my house, did some magic with Xconfigurator and gimp looked niiiice. When he saw me beaming, he said, "Aha, we have another."
I hope to do that a few dozen times to my friends and loved ones [smirk].
I'm new, a tech support (UA) for an ISP in MA, and people have been very helpful (Slashdot, DejaNews, friends). There were some good points made tho - many want Linux to be PNP and it just ISN'T. I try and refrain from asking questions unless I simply don't know where to look for the answer or I don't understand that answer.
But there is (of course) going to be the requisite clique mentality. It no longer labels you as knowledgable to say you're running Linux and that pisses some people off.
I am also a tech support person for a pretty darned large ISP in New England and I think one of the things that just drive us nuts is the plug-n-play mentality. You ask them simple things like "What email program are you using to get your mail?" and they're lost - and worse yet expect you to know. There are three basic types:
1. Those that don't know because they're new (we all were new at that at one point or another). 2. Those that don't know and don't want to know. 3. Those that THINK they know and don't.
Of course none of this is helped by places like AOL that has it's own drivers so that you could install it on your toaster.
But I digress...
I'm new to Linux (Debian 2.0.3 kernel and RH5.2) and even tho the community has been quite nice in regards to answering questions (I read the **** out of the man pages, sometimes I just don't know where to look), I worry that the Linux backlash will catch up and people will no longer want to help people like myself.
Just remember that there ARE those out there with dumb-ass questions sometimes that really ARE trying to learn. After spending a few days with my box, Windows9x seems so damned backward and fruity that I can't imagine going back.
Slashdot Mirror
Despite my protest of the website and my call to ignore them, you've made some really, really good points.
.02
I don't think 'leadership' is one of them tho.
I agree that MS is banking on the Linux community shying away, but it's safe to say they're mistaken. I don't think there is a single Linux user that doubts for a second that Linux would beat MS' OS like a redheaded stepchild.
We need to make darned sure that this test is on the up-and-up tho. I don't trust this situation.
My
Quux26
The inflamatory wording of that page is shameless. Perhaps Microsoft should be reminded that their first attempt was such a hack job that it could only be filed as "incompetent" or "deceptive". My (as well as others) suggestion is to simply ignore them. They had their opportunity and they fumbled it. Hard. In fact it's safe to say they tried to juice the ball.
And to the MS droids that undoubtedly monitor this website, here is a message...
I talk to perhaps five or six dozen people a day, mostly because of your half-assed OS. Assuming we accept the posit of each negative comment getting passed to a few people more, your most recent FUD tactics have just earned you a few thousand black eyes from me alone because each time their box locks up, each time your memeory management horks what they've been working on all morning, my explanation will be simple:
Microsoft has tricked you into buying an incompetant Operating System. Expect this loss of data/time to happen again. Adding insult to injury, they made you pay for the patches. And there is an alternative...
Hugs and kisses,
Quux26
I'll admit, I've already taken the 18th and the 19th off but after reading the reviews, I'm not sure I want to blow two days of vacation to watch souped-up Ewoks.
.02
I wanted DARK. I'm going to GET *#@! Barney.
My
Quux26
"I can't be the only one who figured out the "big secret" 20 minutes into the movie without already knowing about it."
I thought that TCG's secret was one of the best of all time! I couldn't get anyone to spill the damned secret. And I don't suppose I'm bright enough to have gotten that myself. Then again, I never did figure out who did it on Murder She Wrote before the end...
Quux26
"The original star wars was nowhere near as good as the other two."
Are you shooting crack directly into your skull?
"In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Episode III was absolute crap in terms of effects, acting, etc."
Episode III hasn't been released.
"The story line was all that was good/important about Episode IV. And the only purpose of the Episode IV story line was to serve as a base for Episode V and VI."
Aside from making yourself out to be just a tad bit less than bright, what's your point?
Quux26
Even without his contribution to the war, Turing should be honored in every darn CS department - American or not. I'm actually stunned that they've received no sponsorship. Christmas!, even if only for the PR. Gr.
.02
my
Quux26
I have to wonder exactly how the campouts being planned (starting tomorrow, I think) will be affected. Hm.
[?]
Quux26
The answer is (unfortunately) complex. Let me preface this by saying that I don't blame the media or the game industry - the burden is not upon them to take responsibility for the actions of their viewers.
.02.
It's obvious that there is an unprecedented assortment of tools and information to kids. Fifteen years ago, people may have been just as pissed off as they are today, but they simply didn't have the resources to execute them. How many kids knew how to make napalm before The Anarchist Cookbook hit the shelves?
Another issue is "allowability". I don't think you had kids thinking about blowing their classmates skulls off in the context of actually doing it. Again, I'm not holding media creators accountable - each person is responsible for themselves - but I'm quite sure that Natural Born Killers gave a few people some interesting ideas. Unfortunately, the emphasis is on laying blame, but laying blame isn't accurate nor even helpful.
In summation, I think that it needs to be recoginized that as our civilization grows and becomes more mature, there will be people that snap and do things like this. To treat it as an avoidable abberition is just plain silly.
My
Quux26
I think what will come out of all this is not nessesarily Linux superiority but an understanding that there is a choice. I began tooling with Debian and RedHat a few months ago for reasons everyone can relate to - downright pissed-offedness at the shoddiness of MS' progeny. I am now goofing w/Solaris and thinking about playing with FreeBSD and/or VAX.
This is a paradigm shift, as much as I despise that word. =)
quux26
Eeeeeveryone keeps yapping about Katz. Care to give any examples of downright stupid stuff he may have said?
Quux26
(a geek)
tcharron wrote: "I have to say that point 1 a VERY good one. I feel points 2 and 3 are in there to artificially help the free software movement and NOT to help solve the Microsoft dilemma."
Helping the free software movement will (by default) benefit consumers.
Quux26
Someone wrote: You are basically arguing that Microsoft should get a slap on the wrist and be sent on its way.
You responded: To be honest, yes, that is what I think should happen--because I don't think they have done anything wrong.
Now that we're at least on the right subject (instead of makin it a "crappy software" issue), I'm not sure how you can come to this conclusion. I'd like for you to break down the governments case and show how what MS has done is not unfair. This, I would find incredibly interesting.
While you do make some valid points under normal circumstances, you're entirely missing the point that Microsoft has gained an enormous advantage by doing illegal things. This has resulted in profit not only for itself, but taken profit away from other businesses.
DrDOS is only one example. It could be argued that everything that MS is is due to their using illegal tactics and is therefore forfeit.
Your argument is a bit like saying that since a person is a human being, when they break the law they can't be sent to jail because then they lose their freedom, their friends, etc. When MS breaks the law, they have to be punished in a way that is commensurate to the harm done. If you want to argue that Stallman is going overboard and is being excessive, fine. But you're fundamentally misunderstanding the governments case here.
My $.02
Quux26
Of course all the ideas are great. I'm just not sure that #3 isn't a bit off the end tho, realistically.
quux26
I was just suggesting this yesterday to a friend. I'm thinking about getting a small dorm-style fridge and just cracking it and piping the thermometer and the cooling to the unit - sealing it up nice-nice and letting it rock. =)
Say, I have a 166MMX Cyrix (stop laughing), a Sparc1+ coming in this friday, and I'm quite sure I'll have two AMDK6-300's in shortly. What is the best way to manage such things? Anyone have any good links for rack mounts?
Hear! Hear! =)
Quux
I'm all of 26 years old and I recall playing with a PDP11 in my father's office. Ah, those were the days of platters and the clackety-clack of the punch machine. Nothing more fun that making lace cards to piss my pop off. =)
But MY first drive was a 40m'er. I donated a 100m to a local bbs and was immediately given god status. That was way back in...what? 1991? Heh.
Ah, sounded tempting but I'm just going there to browse the booths and basically bask in the whole damned concept.
Besides, the odds of me being one of the first 50 if I don't fedex the damned thing...? =)
Quux
...and a darned good AFJ it is!
How often to AFJ's have SHELF LIFE? =)
- quux
Hm. I always thought it was Read The Fine Manual. [grin]
But seriously, sometimes I just don't know where to look. Man pages aren't exactly the panacea of understanding either. Even O'Reilly says that using man to learn (uni|linu)x is like trying to learn English by reading a dictionary.
My 2,
Jason
I have to agree....
Dselect did suck ***. And I prefer command line interface over gui styles anyday. Seems dselect tried to make it easier and did just the opposite.
My 2,
Jason
I was on the fence about Linux/Win98 because I adore Photoshop 5.0 and didn't know much about Wine. A friend of mine (ChrisC) stopped by my house, did some magic with Xconfigurator and gimp looked niiiice. When he saw me beaming, he said, "Aha, we have another."
I hope to do that a few dozen times to my friends and loved ones [smirk].
My 2,
Jason
j@intap.net
I'm new, a tech support (UA) for an ISP in MA, and people have been very helpful (Slashdot, DejaNews, friends). There were some good points made tho - many want Linux to be PNP and it just ISN'T. I try and refrain from asking questions unless I simply don't know where to look for the answer or I don't understand that answer.
But there is (of course) going to be the requisite clique mentality. It no longer labels you as knowledgable to say you're running Linux and that pisses some people off.
My 2,
Jason
j@intap.net
I am also a tech support person for a pretty darned large ISP in New England and I think one of the things that just drive us nuts is the plug-n-play mentality. You ask them simple things like "What email program are you using to get your mail?" and they're lost - and worse yet expect you to know. There are three basic types:
1. Those that don't know because they're new (we all were new at that at one point or another).
2. Those that don't know and don't want to know.
3. Those that THINK they know and don't.
Of course none of this is helped by places like AOL that has it's own drivers so that you could install it on your toaster.
But I digress...
I'm new to Linux (Debian 2.0.3 kernel and RH5.2) and even tho the community has been quite nice in regards to answering questions (I read the **** out of the man pages, sometimes I just don't know where to look), I worry that the Linux backlash will catch up and people will no longer want to help people like myself.
Just remember that there ARE those out there with dumb-ass questions sometimes that really ARE trying to learn. After spending a few days with my box, Windows9x seems so damned backward and fruity that I can't imagine going back.
My 2,
Jason