Sure it is. It's called Anaconda, and everything you need to make your own customized version is included in the anaconda package in Red Hat, licensed under the GPL.
*Groan* That argument is seriously old. Try it, you'll like it. The way whitespace works in Python is the way you should be doing it in every other language, anyway, and it eliminates the need for brackets (and the debate about where they should be placed).
Who cares? Yeah, that will fix a few errors more quickly, at compile time. But Python is much more stringent than, say, Perl, and if you're passing in the wrong thing, it will tell you about it eventually.
> better control over memory management
That's my biggest point. If you're writing business logic, the last thing you should have to worry about is memory management.
> tools availability
Ok, Python could do better in that regard
> speed.
Again, who cares? Python is plenty fast enough on today's hardware. UNLESS you are doing something that truly needs CPU horsepower, like ray tracing, Python is easily fast enough.
> ok, your a business that handles over a million transactions a month and has a couple hundred thousand customers... what was that about not taking all day?
Who cares?
1. They will have computers dedicated to processing transactions. Much different than a GnuCash user.
2. What does it have to do for every transaction? Most likely it would only take a fraction of a second for each one, especially with a good Sun or IBM box, which that type of app should be running on.
3. Each transaction will probably go to an SQL DB. The time to access that will easily trump any difference between C and Python.
GNUe *is* an interesting project -- I've been sort of following it since its earliest days, and have even contributed a bit of code to it. I think eventually it will be a truly excellent and killer piece of Free Software.
But I don't think it can really be used in the same market as Quicken. GNUe Forms is for form applications, and has a rather limited widget set in comparison to GTK or Qt. So you won't be able to build a nice pretty checkbook look-alike with it (though certainly, the *functionality* would be there). Also, it has quite a few dependencies, including a relational database. I don't think we can really expect Grandma to use any GNUe based solution instead of a personal app like Quicken or GnuCash.
GNUe *is*, I believe, working towards a Small Business module that would have most of the functionality of *QuickBooks* (instead of Quicken). That will certainly be a positive step for Free Software.
If it were in Python, I might volunteer to help myself.:)
Seriously, can anyone name ONE SINGLE advantage that C (or even C++) has over Python for this type of app? Certainly, Python is fast enough -- so what if it has to cycle through all your records once in a while. That's not going to take all day. With C/C++ you have to worry about all kinds of low level crap like buffer overflows. You shouldn't have to think about that kind of thing when writing applications that involve business logic. You should only have to focus on the application logic, something Python lets you do much better than C/C++ does.
These are the packages that I would merge, in order:
Calculating dependencies...done! [ebuild N ] gnome-base/libghttp-1.0.9-r3 [ebuild N ] gnome-base/gnome-print-0.35-r3 [ebuild U ] gnome-extra/gal-0.24 [1.99.7] [ebuild N ] dev-libs/slib-2.4.3 [ebuild N ] dev-libs/g-wrap-1.3.4 [ebuild N ] gnome-base/bonobo-1.0.22 [ebuild N ] gnome-extra/gtkhtml-1.1.10 [ebuild N ] dev-lang/swig-1.3.10-r2 [ebuild N ] gnome-extra/guppi-0.40.3-r2 [ebuild U ] dev-util/guile-1.6.4 [1.4.1] [ebuild N ] app-office/gnucash-1.8.4
It would install, but it would downgrade to the stable version of GAL, of which I think I use the devel version for something else...:(
You know, I'm embarassed to admit this, but I never really understood what that phrase meant. As soon as I read this story's headline and the dept header, it suddenly clicked!
No, they have said that Caldera OpenLinux users have a license for "their IP". But ONLY for use in purchased copies of OpenLinux. So you can't transfer it to Red Hat.
Could this have something to do with readline being GPL'd, and Oracle not wanting to release sqlplus under it?
Almost certainly so.
But, OTOH, WHY should they not be able to GPL their silly command line client? That thing couldn't possibly have any deeply proprietary code or trade secrets.
Or can the client libraries not be linked to anything GPL? That could be a problem. (I'm not familiar with Oracle's licenses.)
Is there any kind of a test implementation of IM2000 yet? I for one would like to see it in action.
If not, I bet one could be hacked up using Python and Twisted in a couple days.
Re:sender stored message makes sender accessible
on
Replacing SMTP?
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· Score: 1
Exactly!!!!! Mod parent up!
> Although it doesn't sound like IM2000 can guarantee a low enough level of spam by itself
It doesn't, but it would sure make blocking spam easier, because:
1. Dedicated spammers will have to have a persistent net connection. ONLY they would have to be blacklisted.
2. ISPs would know precisely which user sent the spam, because you would need to authenticate to put mail in their system. If any report came in of abuse, the ISP could quickly look into it and if needed, simply delete all the user's outgoing mail.
Re:Check out Internet Mail 2000
on
Replacing SMTP?
·
· Score: 1
but with im2000, if the sending machine goes down, then no one can read their mail from there.
Any serious mail user should have a 99.9% uptime/redundancy plan in place for their outgoing mail server.
Also what about people that don't have a full on connection, you don't want to require those people to be connected just to read their mail. Sure you can queue it for downloading offline somehow, but that's going to be much slower than normal because you have to connect to say 30 different servers where your email is hosted.
I believe mail would always be downloaded to the local system (or ISP) when it is read by the client. It could use concurrent connections to connect to each of the 30 servers simultaneously (or at least several at a time), to minimize the total delay.
Also there's the case of somesmallcompany.com sending out a mailer/advertisement to millions of people, because the email is hosted on their machine, their connection/server might become overwhelmed, causing heaches for everyone wanting to read their mail. "Why does my mail load so slow?"
Someone who wanted to do that, and had a legitimate reason to do that, had better have a beefy mail server. But that's the case with the current system too. A million messages would swamp a typical sendmail server!
It's a nice try, but it'll never work.
Sure it would. There are issues to be resolved, but I think it's fundamentally a great idea.
I'm a former Red Hat user who switched to Gentoo a month and a half ago. Basically, things just work now. Whenever I've had an error with an emerge (a compile error or some other kind of emerge error) I've just searched the Gentoo forums and always found a solution.
If you can convince the PHBs to release it under the GPL, then you don't have to spend time or money maintaining it. One of the kernel janitors will probably port it to new kernels.
Maybe, but I hope you don't give hardware companies those kinds of ideas.
A hardware company really should, ideally, maintain the drivers for their own products AND work with the kernel janitors or maintainers to keep an up to date copy in the Linux kernel sources.
The kernel guys do great with most of the drivers they write, but it seems like it's best for the hardware company to do it 1) out of courtesy, to prevent others from having to maintain drivers that make the company money, and 2) for quality control -- the community might not know how to get the most out of the device.
I certainly wouldn't mind a GPL-ed bible. I'd be more than happy to release my modifications to the world...
Well, you're welcome to do that with the KJV, or other older translations like Darby. Just be sure to re-name your modified "version", of course.:)
Oh, and one more thing... there's a bit more to the Bible's "license" than the copyright of the text:
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book." -- Revelation 22:18-19
Don't forget the New American Standard translation, the other major English translation.
I've recently become pretty keen on the NET Bible. It is a fairly new modern translation by a group of scolars, designed for free distribution on the Internet. (I'm still a bit disappointed with their "license", but it's better than most other modern translations. I think there needs to be a good readable modern translation that is as "free" as the KJV.)
Anyway, the NET Bible contains over 50,000 translators notes, some of which are quite useful in determining what the original text likely means. Then there are historical notes and other study notes. Definitely recommended.
We have Powell's bookstore, which is just amazing. It's like a full city block... parts of it two stories and parts of it four stories... and that doesn't even include computer/tech books, which are in a separate building down the street!! If you go in there and spend less than US$200, you're doing good!
And since you want to backpack, the Oregon Cascades are not to be missed. I recommend Mt. Jefferson Wilderness area, east of Salem (where I live). Drive up to Britenbush Lake and hike on the Pacific Crest Trail over a ridge to Jefferson Park, which is right at the base of Oregon's second tallest mountain. Very, very pretty. What the heck, this isn't Jefferson Park, but here is a picture of me with Mt. Jefferson in the background, taken just last Saturday, so you can kind of see the area. At Jefferson Park, you'll be on the mountain just below the lowest glaciers. The hike in is, IIRC, about 9 miles.
For more of a challenge, you can go to the Three Sisters Wilderness and climb the South Sister. It's the third highest mountain in Oregon and the highest you can walk up with no technical climbing. I have not yet done it, but hope to next month.
Yes, technology is great, but sometimes you just have to get away from it all, and the Cascades provide ample opportunity to do just that.:)
Slashdot Mirror
This might get us closer to the heart of the problem. :-)
> Of course, the nice gui installer is not free
Sure it is. It's called Anaconda, and everything you need to make your own customized version is included in the anaconda package in Red Hat, licensed under the GPL.
You're probably thinking of SuSE's installer.
The REAL question is whether or not they fixed the bug in libgnomecanvas that makes TEG crash.
I've had to use TEG 10.x (for Gnome 1) ever since upgrading the Gnome 2.0 libs to the Gnome 2.2 libs.
> YES!!! No semantically significant whitespace!
*Groan* That argument is seriously old. Try it, you'll like it. The way whitespace works in Python is the way you should be doing it in every other language, anyway, and it eliminates the need for brackets (and the debate about where they should be placed).
> Static typing
Who cares? Yeah, that will fix a few errors more quickly, at compile time. But Python is much more stringent than, say, Perl, and if you're passing in the wrong thing, it will tell you about it eventually.
> better control over memory management
That's my biggest point. If you're writing business logic, the last thing you should have to worry about is memory management.
> tools availability
Ok, Python could do better in that regard
> speed.
Again, who cares? Python is plenty fast enough on today's hardware. UNLESS you are doing something that truly needs CPU horsepower, like ray tracing, Python is easily fast enough.
STL is good stuff, no doubt about it.
But it doesn't make C++ as simple or as manageable as Python.
> ok, your a business that handles over a million transactions a month and has a couple hundred thousand customers... what was that about not taking all day?
Who cares?
1. They will have computers dedicated to processing transactions. Much different than a GnuCash user.
2. What does it have to do for every transaction? Most likely it would only take a fraction of a second for each one, especially with a good Sun or IBM box, which that type of app should be running on.
3. Each transaction will probably go to an SQL DB. The time to access that will easily trump any difference between C and Python.
> so you say using the QT or KDE libraries to develop an application is begging for failure?
They can be used from Python just fine.
C simply is not the right tool for end user GUI application programming, plain and simple. C++ is a *little* better, but it's still too complex.
GNUe *is* an interesting project -- I've been sort of following it since its earliest days, and have even contributed a bit of code to it. I think eventually it will be a truly excellent and killer piece of Free Software.
But I don't think it can really be used in the same market as Quicken. GNUe Forms is for form applications, and has a rather limited widget set in comparison to GTK or Qt. So you won't be able to build a nice pretty checkbook look-alike with it (though certainly, the *functionality* would be there). Also, it has quite a few dependencies, including a relational database. I don't think we can really expect Grandma to use any GNUe based solution instead of a personal app like Quicken or GnuCash.
GNUe *is*, I believe, working towards a Small Business module that would have most of the functionality of *QuickBooks* (instead of Quicken). That will certainly be a positive step for Free Software.
I was thinking of writing the exact same thing.
:)
If it were in Python, I might volunteer to help myself.
Seriously, can anyone name ONE SINGLE advantage that C (or even C++) has over Python for this type of app? Certainly, Python is fast enough -- so what if it has to cycle through all your records once in a while. That's not going to take all day. With C/C++ you have to worry about all kinds of low level crap like buffer overflows. You shouldn't have to think about that kind of thing when writing applications that involve business logic. You should only have to focus on the application logic, something Python lets you do much better than C/C++ does.
You're preaching to the choir.
You and I both know that that is true. I was simply answering someone's question about SCO's position towards OpenLinux customers.
Yes, but if you own one box of Open Linux, you can license all the systems you want that are installed from those disks.
No, not according to SCO's "policy". They are only "licensing" their IP, not under the GPL, for binary use only on one computer.
You and I both know that that is BS, but I was just replying stating SCO's policy towards OpenLinux users.
You know, I'm embarassed to admit this, but I never really understood what that phrase meant. As soon as I read this story's headline and the dept header, it suddenly clicked!
Thanks Slashdot!
No, they have said that Caldera OpenLinux users have a license for "their IP". But ONLY for use in purchased copies of OpenLinux. So you can't transfer it to Red Hat.
Could this have something to do with readline being GPL'd, and Oracle not wanting to release sqlplus under it?
Almost certainly so.
But, OTOH, WHY should they not be able to GPL their silly command line client? That thing couldn't possibly have any deeply proprietary code or trade secrets.
Or can the client libraries not be linked to anything GPL? That could be a problem. (I'm not familiar with Oracle's licenses.)
Is there any kind of a test implementation of IM2000 yet? I for one would like to see it in action.
If not, I bet one could be hacked up using Python and Twisted in a couple days.
Exactly!!!!! Mod parent up!
> Although it doesn't sound like IM2000 can guarantee a low enough level of spam by itself
It doesn't, but it would sure make blocking spam easier, because:
1. Dedicated spammers will have to have a persistent net connection. ONLY they would have to be blacklisted.
2. ISPs would know precisely which user sent the spam, because you would need to authenticate to put mail in their system. If any report came in of abuse, the ISP could quickly look into it and if needed, simply delete all the user's outgoing mail.
but with im2000, if the sending machine goes down, then no one can read their mail from there.
Any serious mail user should have a 99.9% uptime/redundancy plan in place for their outgoing mail server.
Also what about people that don't have a full on connection, you don't want to require those people to be connected just to read their mail. Sure you can queue it for downloading offline somehow, but that's going to be much slower than normal because you have to connect to say 30 different servers where your email is hosted.
I believe mail would always be downloaded to the local system (or ISP) when it is read by the client. It could use concurrent connections to connect to each of the 30 servers simultaneously (or at least several at a time), to minimize the total delay.
Also there's the case of somesmallcompany.com sending out a mailer/advertisement to millions of people, because the email is hosted on their machine, their connection/server might become overwhelmed, causing heaches for everyone wanting to read their mail. "Why does my mail load so slow?"
Someone who wanted to do that, and had a legitimate reason to do that, had better have a beefy mail server. But that's the case with the current system too. A million messages would swamp a typical sendmail server!
It's a nice try, but it'll never work.
Sure it would. There are issues to be resolved, but I think it's fundamentally a great idea.
I'm a former Red Hat user who switched to Gentoo a month and a half ago. Basically, things just work now. Whenever I've had an error with an emerge (a compile error or some other kind of emerge error) I've just searched the Gentoo forums and always found a solution.
If you can convince the PHBs to release it under the GPL, then you don't have to spend time or money maintaining it. One of the kernel janitors will probably port it to new kernels.
Maybe, but I hope you don't give hardware companies those kinds of ideas.
A hardware company really should, ideally, maintain the drivers for their own products AND work with the kernel janitors or maintainers to keep an up to date copy in the Linux kernel sources.
The kernel guys do great with most of the drivers they write, but it seems like it's best for the hardware company to do it 1) out of courtesy, to prevent others from having to maintain drivers that make the company money, and 2) for quality control -- the community might not know how to get the most out of the device.
I certainly wouldn't mind a GPL-ed bible. I'd be more than happy to release my modifications to the world...
:)
:)
Well, you're welcome to do that with the KJV, or other older translations like Darby. Just be sure to re-name your modified "version", of course.
Oh, and one more thing... there's a bit more to the Bible's "license" than the copyright of the text:
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book." -- Revelation 22:18-19
Are you comfortable with THAT license?
how many years after Jesus's death were they written? Almost 100 years for John's gospel?
I'm not 100% sure, but I've heard they were written in the AD60-70-80 area.
In any case, Paul's letters would have been written before AD 60, so we certainly have good ancient witness to the Christian faith.
Don't forget the New American Standard translation, the other major English translation.
I've recently become pretty keen on the NET Bible. It is a fairly new modern translation by a group of scolars, designed for free distribution on the Internet. (I'm still a bit disappointed with their "license", but it's better than most other modern translations. I think there needs to be a good readable modern translation that is as "free" as the KJV.)
Anyway, the NET Bible contains over 50,000 translators notes, some of which are quite useful in determining what the original text likely means. Then there are historical notes and other study notes. Definitely recommended.
We have Powell's bookstore, which is just amazing. It's like a full city block ... parts of it two stories and parts of it four stories ... and that doesn't even include computer/tech books, which are in a separate building down the street!! If you go in there and spend less than US$200, you're doing good!
:)
And since you want to backpack, the Oregon Cascades are not to be missed. I recommend Mt. Jefferson Wilderness area, east of Salem (where I live). Drive up to Britenbush Lake and hike on the Pacific Crest Trail over a ridge to Jefferson Park, which is right at the base of Oregon's second tallest mountain. Very, very pretty. What the heck, this isn't Jefferson Park, but here is a picture of me with Mt. Jefferson in the background, taken just last Saturday, so you can kind of see the area. At Jefferson Park, you'll be on the mountain just below the lowest glaciers. The hike in is, IIRC, about 9 miles.
For more of a challenge, you can go to the Three Sisters Wilderness and climb the South Sister. It's the third highest mountain in Oregon and the highest you can walk up with no technical climbing. I have not yet done it, but hope to next month.
Yes, technology is great, but sometimes you just have to get away from it all, and the Cascades provide ample opportunity to do just that.