I would hardly consider Perl to be the future generation of language. I am doing all I can to avoid Perl personaly as (IMHO) better alternative exist (Python?) for the problems ->I- need to solve.
I would probably consider Java the future... at least in terms of what Smalltalk could of been.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Your right, there are probably more KDE and GNOME users than OSX users out there, but if you have used OSX you would realize that they are two completely different worlds of usability.
Though technically KDE and Gnome did bring A desktop to UNIX, I have a rough time comparing a window manager/development framework to a true desktop computing environment.
I have been using OSX for about 5 weeks for development and administration. I don't even turn on my x86 box anymore. With the headstart that OSX already has on KDE/Gnome and the speed that it's moving.. I have a hard time believing that even KDE will catch up to it.
the problem isn't KDE but the fragmentation of the linux community. The only chance that KDE maybe has to Linux Standards project. Until then I am still fighting with not only administrating our servers but my own workstation, no thanks. OSX is here to stay for me.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Fighter jets are one seater planes with exception of some two seater planes.
There where 24 people in this plane for which the pilot was responsible for. I don't believe that any of the passangers and crew would of tolerated any 'lessons' being taught at their risk, nor the pilot would of believed he could get away with it.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Hindsight is 20/20.. right now that is the best deal.
I had a Dual 450 on order, but they ran out of stock so I was put between purchasing a 533 dual (which was the next reasonable step up..) or go down in price and.. for once in my life.. make a bottom end purchase...;-) about $1500USD purchased a machine that packs a lot of punch.
If you can afford the dual CPU version though , I definately recomend it. (I would of spent the xtra money if I had not been so impatient and could of waited another month..)
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I am in the same boat.. I bought a G4 two weeks ago and I am quite happy with it. (I bought the bottom of the line G4 466)..
It's about as fast as linux in feel of the os, but less buggy. Yes, even though Mac people are complaining, it's 100% imporovment over gimp or kde in terms of stability and 'togetherness'.
I can use Mozilla, IE, and I nabbed up a copy of Microsoft Office 2001.. Basically I am set. I have a full screen XWindows server running next to the aqua, I can hit CTRL-CMD-A and it bounces from the full screen XWindows server back to Aqua. This is helpful when I feel like running a i386 based program or just want to play with XWindows.
If you do go for the bottom of the line (466 G4), you should probably buy some more ram.. other than that.. it's been great.
Oh, and if you use Visio.... there is a native OSX (well, carbon) program out that will let you build Visio compatible documents.. for about $200 you can buy the Windows and Mac OS9/X license and use it at home and work.. Windows or Mac. But I use visio quite a bit for flow charts and network diagrams.
But, to me user experience was worth more than a few hundred dollar difference between a comparable PC based system. Unix with style;-)
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I can use MS Office / Explorer, etc from the Mac, I can't use those on my Linux box unless I boot into Windows.
I find myself more productive in the Mac Interface than I do in KDE as well. Just about having everything in one place. (Though you can do the same thing using 2 Intel boxes and XWin32 on windows.. but then you are stuck using Windows as your primary workstation, which I am trying to avoid.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I would be neat to do something with the crazy iMac, like turn one of those things into a cube. You can pickup a second hand imac for a few hundred dollars. After that you have a very low heat/cost risc architecture system that would make a fantastic home network server, etc.
the only problem is that stupid monitor that is attached. (I would love to have something as small as a cube and cheep as a iMac in my closet for MP3 storage, internet sharing, web server and of course distributed.net block crunching.:)
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Computer is like a good matress.. worth buying.
on
Another Look At OS X
·
· Score: 2
.. because you will spend MANY MANY hours using it and it will definately affect your day.
Your arguments are very valid.. probably just comes down to choice. I work 8 hours a day (at least) on my machine developing / adminstrating / planning along with the normal day to day office application requirements.
If I am going to be spending more time on this machine than I do sleep, why not have a nice one that I like and enjoy.
I don't give up anything, my linux box is still within kicking distance of my G4, but $1,500 for a OSX system which runs very quick and gives me all I need.
I could save $200-300 (if I build the machine myself) on semi-equivilant hardware, but why? I will treat myself to something that I enjoy using.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Cygwin & MPW is the answer to heterogenious networking and collaboration?
Let me remind you, we are the minority. It's about being able to work and co-habitate with Windows users that makes an alternative OS possible for me. (Maybe in your job this isn't an issue, but for mine it is...)
It's not just about file sharing and running Lynx in a windows Cygwin unix prompt. It's about being able to track modifications on a word document thats been passed around to 5 people hammering down a project. Things like that, unfortunately, lock me into having to have -a- windows machine to do activities such as this.
I have a DUAL PIII 800 with Ultra SCSI 166 and plenty of ram... but VMWARE still isn't a great solution FOR ME (disclaimers apply). It's just slow. I like native apps.
But again, why would I want to run Cygwin?
Stability of Windows with the applications of Linux? XWin32 is a much better solution anyway.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I have been using it for about 4 weeks (Got build 4k73 when it was first released).
With exception of a the occasional IE crash (not OS crash) the system ran without a hitch. I had it on a iBook which is a relatively slow and old machine. (Especially when compared to my Dual PIII 800 SCSI 166 running Debian SID with KDE).
I am not one of those people that need DVD playback. I have a DVD player and TV for that. I just need good Java support and a decient terminal and X windows. OSX gives me all of that.
My G4 just arived this week and now all I need to do is buy a Gigabit ethernet for my Linux box and I have one of the coolest development environments I could ask for. (Linux apps for server and Java profiler...) I was able to get JBuilder 4.0 Enterprise for Windows actually working on OSX.:) (Just had to create a few sym-links and worked like a charm!)
I was quickly able to get wget, vim, Lynx, Python and Perl working fine on the machine and was quite comfortable. As far as the Unix side of things, the only problem people might find is that the directory structure is a LITTLE bit different than what you are used to. (Still has/etc/usr/local/usr.. etc).. user directories sit in/Users/* (instead of home or/usr/local/home).. but again, you can just symlink your way back to a comfortable shell experience.
But the nice thing is now I can run Photoshop, JBuilder, IE, Mozilla, Netscape, iMovie (Which is actually a DAMN cool program..
But OSX most importantly stays out of my way and just lets me work.:) Thats nice.
Also the fact that Apple is packaging everything needed to do full development is pretty neat. They are starting to learn that they will get market acceptance with empowerment of the programmer.
I am also happy that OSX allows me to very openly work in a heterogenious environment as Windows and the old MacOS seem to do the exact opposite. I see it as Linux, BSD, etc just gained a great ally.;-)
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I have build 4k73 (very close to final version) and it has a tool in the control panel that you can have it fetch updates from Apple. It is added to the cron automatically if you wish and it will look for updates every night or every friday for example.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
You are not accounting for the quality of hardware vs your garage trick.
You are also not accounting for the fact that with that hardware you can run Mac OS9.1, OSX, Linux (PPC) , Windows*, OSX Server, etc.
Frankly I would spend the $800 on the iMac and then convert the machine you where using previous to a linux server which you can then get the best of both worlds.
I have done that myself (just bought a G4 last week after playing with OSX on my wifes iBook for about a month...). I have my dual processor PIII 800 (Running Debian) sitting next to my G4 running OSX.
I can always reboot into windows 2000 on my pc if I -HAVE- to play a latest and greatest game.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
... and it's fine. It's even running on an old IDE drive that I put in (not UDMA66).. no problems at all.
the build I am using is pre-release and has debugging code in the widgets and UI and I have heard from people that have already recieved the gold master that it's quite quicker.
such claims are sorta silly... oh well, at least nobody can accuse you of being a karma-whore
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I have.. I have been working with it for a while now.
I could give a rats ass about accomplishments or who supports what type of backwards compatible code... I need to write java apps. I need to use XWin apps. I need to read Excel spreadsheets and edit Word documents. I enjoy using a constistant and clever interface. I enjoy having commercially supported drivers. I enjoy STILL BEING ABLE TO CO EXISTS WITH MY LINUX MACHINE AS A SERVER. I ENJOY BEING ABLE TO RUN X-WINDOWS APPS AS I NEED THEM FROM MY LINUX SERVER.
I don't give up anything. I get the best of both worlds. I can hack on my G4, play with my DV cam and listen to MP3's while hacking Java code on JBuilder and all with a mac interface.
If you have little experience in setting up a heterogenious environment there are plenty of howto's out there that will help. Because OSX comes with native NFS and has plenty of Samba and other unix native applications ported already, you shouldn't have to hard of time a dealing with your phobia of a well supported consumer directed linux.
By christmas time this year I promise that there will be more games, business applications, etc. that will allow me to function and co-habitate with Windows BORG users yet retain my Unix-independance without compromising colaboration and cohabitation.
I have sent documents converted to Office format from StarOffice to work collegues and was embarrased by their reactions.
Like lesbians, don't know em till you try em.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Slashdot Mirror
I would hardly consider Perl to be the future generation of language. I am doing all I can to avoid Perl personaly as (IMHO) better alternative exist (Python?) for the problems ->I- need to solve.
I would probably consider Java the future
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Have you actually used Komodo?
even compared to Visual Basic it really sucks... like.. REALLY sucks. I would be embarrased to ship a program built with that IDE builder.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Your right, there are probably more KDE and GNOME users than OSX users out there, but if you have used OSX you would realize that they are two completely different worlds of usability.
Though technically KDE and Gnome did bring A desktop to UNIX, I have a rough time comparing a window manager/development framework to a true desktop computing environment.
I have been using OSX for about 5 weeks for development and administration. I don't even turn on my x86 box anymore. With the headstart that OSX already has on KDE/Gnome and the speed that it's moving.. I have a hard time believing that even KDE will catch up to it.
the problem isn't KDE but the fragmentation of the linux community. The only chance that KDE maybe has to Linux Standards project. Until then I am still fighting with not only administrating our servers but my own workstation, no thanks. OSX is here to stay for me.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Who in their right mind would actually use it? We recieved one for free and I won't let it touch my computer.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Do you know if there are any projects on it's way to compete with Kylx or Visual Basic based on Python.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Fighter jets are one seater planes with exception of some two seater planes.
There where 24 people in this plane for which the pilot was responsible for. I don't believe that any of the passangers and crew would of tolerated any 'lessons' being taught at their risk, nor the pilot would of believed he could get away with it.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I didn't pirate the software off of Hotline.. (I try to support QUALITY commercial software)
I didn't install over a beta. It was a clean install on a seperate partition.
Man, you are doing something wrong. If you can't even see the STARTX
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Hindsight is 20/20.. right now that is the best deal.
.. for once in my life.. make a bottom end purchase... ;-) about $1500USD purchased a machine that packs a lot of punch.
I had a Dual 450 on order, but they ran out of stock so I was put between purchasing a 533 dual (which was the next reasonable step up..) or go down in price and
If you can afford the dual CPU version though , I definately recomend it. (I would of spent the xtra money if I had not been so impatient and could of waited another month..)
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Dude, I have got this working on two machines, the only difference is it is 2 G4's, not G3's... but I can't beleive that would be the problem.
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
My Secret Knowledge..
.4 release
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xinit
... back to Aqua...
Step 1, read the docs:
Step 2, Download from Darwinfo.com XFree86 binaries. (Was a december release)
Step 3, Download the binary update from ftp.XFree86.org (4.0.3)
Install all.
Download XonX
decompress
go to terminal
startx
OPTIONAL
Download and install WindowMaker binary from darwinfo.org
Install NATIVE OSX/Darwin WindowMaker onto OSX (Doesn't run from Linux box, runs locally)
modify
(I removed startup items that are default and added )
/usr/local/bin/wmaker &
xhost +
I can now choose to compile and run programs natively, or telnet into my Linux machine, type in
export DISPLAY=192.168.10.4:0.0 (my OSX machine)
... the run something such as
/opt/jbuilder4/bin/jbuilder
/usr/local/mozilla/mozilla
etc etc etc, it's working fine for me...
... hit CTRL-OPTION-A
thats it....
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I am using XonX on OSX 10.0 and have been for over a week.
Don't be a idiot. Unless you know what you are talking about, don't open your trap.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I am in the same boat.. I bought a G4 two weeks ago and I am quite happy with it. (I bought the bottom of the line G4 466)..
It's about as fast as linux in feel of the os, but less buggy. Yes, even though Mac people are complaining, it's 100% imporovment over gimp or kde in terms of stability and 'togetherness'.
I can use Mozilla, IE, and I nabbed up a copy of Microsoft Office 2001.. Basically I am set. I have a full screen XWindows server running next to the aqua, I can hit CTRL-CMD-A and it bounces from the full screen XWindows server back to Aqua. This is helpful when I feel like running a i386 based program or just want to play with XWindows.
If you do go for the bottom of the line (466 G4), you should probably buy some more ram
Oh, and if you use Visio.... there is a native OSX (well, carbon) program out that will let you build Visio compatible documents.. for about $200 you can buy the Windows and Mac OS9/X license and use it at home and work.. Windows or Mac. But I use visio quite a bit for flow charts and network diagrams.
But, to me user experience was worth more than a few hundred dollar difference between a comparable PC based system. Unix with style
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Companies such as Real are hurting, and unless they start striking deals such as this.. we are not going to have companies such as Real left.
Get used to this trend, the free ride is over.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I can use MS Office / Explorer, etc from the Mac, I can't use those on my Linux box unless I boot into Windows.
I find myself more productive in the Mac Interface than I do in KDE as well. Just about having everything in one place. (Though you can do the same thing using 2 Intel boxes and XWin32 on windows.. but then you are stuck using Windows as your primary workstation, which I am trying to avoid.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I would be neat to do something with the crazy iMac, like turn one of those things into a cube. You can pickup a second hand imac for a few hundred dollars. After that you have a very low heat/cost risc architecture system that would make a fantastic home network server, etc.
the only problem is that stupid monitor that is attached. (I would love to have something as small as a cube and cheep as a iMac in my closet for MP3 storage, internet sharing, web server and of course distributed.net block crunching.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
.. because you will spend MANY MANY hours using it and it will definately affect your day.
Your arguments are very valid.. probably just comes down to choice. I work 8 hours a day (at least) on my machine developing / adminstrating / planning along with the normal day to day office application requirements.
If I am going to be spending more time on this machine than I do sleep, why not have a nice one that I like and enjoy.
I don't give up anything, my linux box is still within kicking distance of my G4, but $1,500 for a OSX system which runs very quick and gives me all I need.
I could save $200-300 (if I build the machine myself) on semi-equivilant hardware, but why? I will treat myself to something that I enjoy using.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Cygwin & MPW is the answer to heterogenious networking and collaboration?
Let me remind you, we are the minority. It's about being able to work and co-habitate with Windows users that makes an alternative OS possible for me. (Maybe in your job this isn't an issue, but for mine it is...)
It's not just about file sharing and running Lynx in a windows Cygwin unix prompt. It's about being able to track modifications on a word document thats been passed around to 5 people hammering down a project. Things like that, unfortunately, lock me into having to have -a- windows machine to do activities such as this.
I have a DUAL PIII 800 with Ultra SCSI 166 and plenty of ram... but VMWARE still isn't a great solution FOR ME (disclaimers apply). It's just slow. I like native apps.
But again, why would I want to run Cygwin?
Stability of Windows with the applications of Linux? XWin32 is a much better solution anyway.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I have been using it for about 4 weeks (Got build 4k73 when it was first released).
With exception of a the occasional IE crash (not OS crash) the system ran without a hitch. I had it on a iBook which is a relatively slow and old machine. (Especially when compared to my Dual PIII 800 SCSI 166 running Debian SID with KDE).
I am not one of those people that need DVD playback. I have a DVD player and TV for that. I just need good Java support and a decient terminal and X windows. OSX gives me all of that.
My G4 just arived this week and now all I need to do is buy a Gigabit ethernet for my Linux box and I have one of the coolest development environments I could ask for. (Linux apps for server and Java profiler...) I was able to get JBuilder 4.0 Enterprise for Windows actually working on OSX.
I was quickly able to get wget, vim, Lynx, Python and Perl working fine on the machine and was quite comfortable. As far as the Unix side of things, the only problem people might find is that the directory structure is a LITTLE bit different than what you are used to. (Still has
But the nice thing is now I can run Photoshop, JBuilder, IE, Mozilla, Netscape, iMovie (Which is actually a DAMN cool program
But OSX most importantly stays out of my way and just lets me work.
Also the fact that Apple is packaging everything needed to do full development is pretty neat. They are starting to learn that they will get market acceptance with empowerment of the programmer.
I am also happy that OSX allows me to very openly work in a heterogenious environment as Windows and the old MacOS seem to do the exact opposite. I see it as Linux, BSD, etc just gained a great ally.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I have build 4k73 (very close to final version) and it has a tool in the control panel that you can have it fetch updates from Apple. It is added to the cron automatically if you wish and it will look for updates every night or every friday for example.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Simple enough...
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I just installed OSX, it's got BSD plastered all over the installation process.
they have given back to the community as well. You can download the Darwin/BSD kernel and run it on PC hardware.
They give credit where credit is due. They use the BSD story is part of their pitch on why it's so damn stable.
Geez...
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
goto http://www.darwinfo.org
lots of ports of UNIX based packages, not BSD applications. (not many successful LINUX only applications... with exception of the kernel.)
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Yes and No,
You are not accounting for the quality of hardware vs your garage trick.
You are also not accounting for the fact that with that hardware you can run Mac OS9.1, OSX, Linux (PPC) , Windows*, OSX Server, etc.
Frankly I would spend the $800 on the iMac and then convert the machine you where using previous to a linux server which you can then get the best of both worlds.
I have done that myself (just bought a G4 last week after playing with OSX on my wifes iBook for about a month...). I have my dual processor PIII 800 (Running Debian) sitting next to my G4 running OSX.
I can always reboot into windows 2000 on my pc if I -HAVE- to play a latest and greatest game.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
... and it's fine. It's even running on an old IDE drive that I put in (not UDMA66).. no problems at all.
the build I am using is pre-release and has debugging code in the widgets and UI and I have heard from people that have already recieved the gold master that it's quite quicker.
such claims are sorta silly... oh well, at least nobody can accuse you of being a karma-whore
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
I have.. I have been working with it for a while now.
I could give a rats ass about accomplishments or who supports what type of backwards compatible code... I need to write java apps. I need to use XWin apps. I need to read Excel spreadsheets and edit Word documents. I enjoy using a constistant and clever interface. I enjoy having commercially supported drivers. I enjoy STILL BEING ABLE TO CO EXISTS WITH MY LINUX MACHINE AS A SERVER. I ENJOY BEING ABLE TO RUN X-WINDOWS APPS AS I NEED THEM FROM MY LINUX SERVER.
I don't give up anything. I get the best of both worlds. I can hack on my G4, play with my DV cam and listen to MP3's while hacking Java code on JBuilder and all with a mac interface.
If you have little experience in setting up a heterogenious environment there are plenty of howto's out there that will help. Because OSX comes with native NFS and has plenty of Samba and other unix native applications ported already, you shouldn't have to hard of time a dealing with your phobia of a well supported consumer directed linux.
By christmas time this year I promise that there will be more games, business applications, etc. that will allow me to function and co-habitate with Windows BORG users yet retain my Unix-independance without compromising colaboration and cohabitation.
I have sent documents converted to Office format from StarOffice to work collegues and was embarrased by their reactions.
Like lesbians, don't know em till you try em.
--------------------
Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?