I have 10 web servers running Debian 2.2 w/old kernel and ext2fs.
Never have downtime
Never have Lost Data
.... even.. *gasp*.. my NFS works as expected.
Try running some benchmarks of Java application servers against a Windows Machine, HP-UX machine and a Solaris based system. You will be surprised on the results, the penguin screams. (Expecially with the IBM port of jdk 1.3 w/Native Threads).
Google is the (might I say?) most populare and usefull search engine on the internet. Powered by Linux.
Yahoo used to use BSD on their indexing engine. Seems odd, Yahoo also uses Java for a large number of their applications. Which JDK do you think they are using on those BSD machines? Might I *gasp* guess that they are not using BSD everywhere?
Get real buddy. Go off and play with your commercial unices or Windows, but when push comes to shove.. most of the new interesting applications for unix are going to Linux FIRST and other commercial unix second. I use Irix and Solaris and it's a hell of a lot easier to get stuff compiled and working on Linux.
Windows is just too hard to manage in a datacenter, just as linux might be dificult to manage in a corp. desktop environment.
But don't base your stupid facts on 4 year old kernel defaults, it's just plain FUD.
You are right to a degree. it's hard to compare apples and oranges, and bad code can be written in any language... but let me use a case example.
We have a medium sized and medium traffic and take 1-2 million hits a day. The system is extremely dynamic and quite heavy.. (we do on the fly translations and skins...). The servers definately work their money.
We are using IBM's jdk1.3 on all the servers, which seem to be 2-3x faster than the SUN jdk1.3.
All the app servers are running on Resin.
Each machine is 2proc 800mhz PIII's w/a gig of ram.
Now, generally the cluster works great.. but this is the overall trend I am seeing. The server will work fine until 10-11 pages are trying to be rendered at the same time. When this happens each page slows down to a point to where the system seems to get backlogged with requests. it's not too much time until there are 30-40 pages trying to render at the same time. We have a hefty database (running on an SGI Origin class server) and it doesn't seem to really be the bottle neck.. but the CPU's on that machine are at 100% and creeping..
The strange thing is when we are running in a low concurrency environment the pages are lightning fast...
Now there are always optimizations that one can do to speed things up.. for us caching was a save all (see http://www.opensymphony.com/ OSCache product... fine grain JSP TagLib caching classes).
I have had a lot of experience programming in Perl/FastCGI, mod_perl, mod_python and PHP and they seemed to deal with heavy loads a bit better than JAVA, but looks like IBM's jdk is leaps and bounds ahead of Sun's. (In our experience we get the performance of 30 SUN JDK servers on 10 IBM servers).
We can't even afford to look at running JAVA on a risc system. In our tests , any advantage to running on a risc system is dashed by the overhead and abstraction of the JVM.
I would love to see how our app would run on a dual processor Athlon 4.
anyway, $.02
Re:Mosfet's Liquid Style Engine
on
KDE 2.2 Released
·
· Score: 2
Yeah,
I installed it on a build of KDE from last friday at home and to say the least I was stunned.;-) KDE has never looked quite so good. I would love to see this rolled into the main CVS.
I run KDE from XWIN32 on my windows machine on a lan network and the performance of the widgets and alpha-blending was 4-5x faster than my G4 466 running OSX. (Remind you, this is over a terminal!!)
If you are impressed with the OSX widgets and menu transparancy, this is a must-see.
(NOTE: It does require a build of 2.2 or (2.2alpha) to work.
I own a small software company. I use free software to build my products (it's an web based ASP). But, I charge a HELL of a lot of money for products and services. And no, they don't get the source. I have sent diff patches in for software that I use and have found bugs in or fixed, but that's it.
Why don't I give my code and products away? Because I wouldn't have a business if I did. I sell goods to make money.. if it wasn't software it would be Beans or Cabbage. Whatever.
Monopolies will come and go, but as long as there is a need for premium or niche services (almost any business now days).. there will be commercial software and there will be people getting rich.
Unfortunately (the brutal truth).. the people who are business minded are FEEDING on people like us.
"The problem is that it was devised by a bunch of hippie anarchists who didn't have a strong profit motive. But this is a business, not a government-sponsored network."
The AARPNET was created to ensure communication between NORAD and the White House/Pentagon in the event of a nuclear war.
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Maybe I am one of the few people that actually enjoy reading Jon's articles. Some I don't agree with, some I do.. but GOD... will you people quit complaining. I think some of you think it's fucking cool to rip on Jon Katz. Have you all been so conditioned in public education to ridicule and mock people and idea that you don't necessarily agree with.
Whenever Katz posts an article I spend more time trying to filter out the childish patronism than actually getting to a interesting and -god forbid- thought provoking response other than '.. You idiot Jon...... This AGAIN Jon.... What planet have you been on Jon.... A little LATE aren't we Jon...... Jumping on this bandwagon Jon.... '.
I enjoyed Jons work before he came to Slashdot (HotWired) and enjoy his articles here. Some I agree with, some I don't. But I am just sick of all the damn childishness you people show in these mindless responses.
To sum it up, nobody is impressed by your mindless slander.
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I think it's a more apropriate comparison. You get added benifit for old games. Two alternating screen-sizes to try and enhance the old size (wide screen) or play old games at original resolution. Everything from what I have seen of it works quite well.
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
They too slack for taking on NT and diluted their market and percieved value. Now in assisting in build up linux, they are building an OS that, in a parallel application env. will outperform their own IRIX kit for the money. (Doesn't matter if you need 2x as many intel boxes if your only paying a fraction of the cost for the hardware versus Irix...).
This is probably a big reason that SGI is pulling out of the ia32 race and are going to soon be only supporting IRIX and ia64 equipment.
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Its funny, I was thinking the same thing.. and continue to think the same thing every time I hear the word Microsoft & anti-trust.
The reality of it, computer science is the base of the tech industry IMHO. Thats where the real `innovation is happening. Now, if I learned anything in comp-sci is that progress is made by working with abstractions. You can build two sets of tools (A & B) and use the two of them to build an even better tool = C. Now tool C wouldnt of been possible/realistic without A & B.
Unfortunately Microsoft is a -great- industry catalyst. Case in point, look at Ximian with now Mono, a.NET alternative. Would anyone argue that a strong machine-independent distributed processing environment... yada yada.. (I am not a.NET programmer, or understand 100% what it is... and I dont have the energy to waste my time talking to or reading Microsoft marketing brainwash) but the point is... Microsoft, by flexing its monopoly, has encouraged something new from Ximian and Open Source Community, and very probably to be the foundation for many more open source innovations of the future.
All I can say is I am glad that MS & AOL didnt come to a deal. I hope that they can hate each-other enough to pull a checks and balances for each-other as MS is realizing by its whole.NET and server-infrastructure that the desktop is eventually doomed. Does that mean that AOL is potentially as powerful as microsoft?
(Sony+AOL+RedHat) ~= Microsoft?
I believe on a fair playing field, yes.
Not very often that I agree with ESR. (Often times his ego muddles what he is trying to say)... but I did agree with his feeling that we should be able to beat Microsoft fair and square. Just as years ago I have made the move to Linux at home and finally the workplace, millions of others will this year too. Eventually we will hit the critical mass.
As much as we all hate Microsoft, and as much as I feel that they have ruined many companies and in certain cases stifled true innovation I do feel that they can be co-existed with having strong competition and innovation on the part of the open source community. Justice in its true sense wont happen today or tomorrow, but as every new user joins the linux movement, its a very tiny string that, with millions of others, will eventually pull the ogre down. Unfortunately, people are not patient to wait for that to happen naturally.
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The technology giants may hit a brick wall, but someone, somewhere is comming up with a way to bypass whatever problems may arise. It's something that has pulled true for every other mainstream technology in the consumer market. I believe I read, (I don't have a link, so take it for what it is.. I could be wrong..:)), according to the Gartner Group disk storage is the fastest growing sector in the tech industry and won't slow down for a long while.
Demand will absolutely drive innovation in the sector.
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Thats one thing that sorta anoyed me about ReiserFS kernel module. I don't use SuSE and hate mp3.com so I simply went in and changed the output message to something amusing.
Great thing about open source, if you don't like the messages.. change em!:)
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Yes, my ISP was costing too much money and I am looking for a new host to dump it on. There is another project that is quite interesting as well (but not as simple) WebWare. Basically same thing, but does more:)
Give me another week or so and PyML will be back and kicking:) Thanks for the interest.
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
The whole ideal with linux is like an old Fairy tail where there is a ruler, and the real ruler. For example, the king might rule the kingdom, but he is merely a puppet to the evil wizard behind his throne.
I see system administrators , the people who are doing the real work, as these 'evil' wizards. (Please take it evil with all effection).
Most companies I have worked at, the CTO seems to be very geeky (And your lucky if you have one like that), but the CIO and IT admins tend to listen to the second tier admin/techs/engineers. If that tier (the most expensive one) isn't happy.. the organization isn't happy.. end the end it's this second tier that seems to make the decisions in the long run.
They can rage a compaign on general public against the name of linux, but if the underlings (peasants if you will) don't buy it, nothing is going to fly.
IBM & Apple didn't quite understand that, but seems that both organizations are targeting that group very aggresively if you think about it.
:) Hoorah from the peasants !
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
In our business we use MIPS based SGI equipment for doing image manipulation. I believe it wouldn't take much work to port those libraries to the PS2. We use a simple cluster of XMLRPC servers to handle image conversion requests and the data is transfered over simple NFS style filesystems.
The problem I have right now is that the image conversions have to happen on demand and in real time (well, there is a user waiting). Most of the images on the fastest PC's I can get my hands on happen in around 2 seconds. (I use Image magick, there are probably better things out there). On the Irix machine we have we can do the same conversion less than.1 seconds. Also I can have up to four concurrent conversions happening at one time and keep that conversion rate.
I believe that the reason the SGI machine does so well is because of the internal bandwidth and system architecture, not so much the CPU speed. (Again, AFAIK).
Now, if I can use 13-14 playstation2's in a small cluster to get similar results (even close) would be MUCH MUCH MUCH more cost effective than a Origin class server.
Strangely enough those little machines are designed to maintain a fairly intense sustained level of io/cpu internaly without keeling over.
Just a thought... anyway. It might very well be the pro-c compilers for Irix give me the edge and with GCC I wouldn't see much of a performance gain over a normal ia32 system.
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The fact is that SGI is the only ones really using the MIPS chips.
Uhh... MIPS is one of the more popular embedded systems chips on the market. They are fast and run cool. What do you think is in your Nintendo 64, Playstation2, etc? An intel processor? Motorolla? Nope
As for the Origin, they are still planning on doing the major engineering work to make it completely robust, only using the more popular Itaium chips.
Hmm... news to me. As far as I know they are going to continue using Mips and make the ia64 interchangable or different node bricks on the 3000 series machines that will support exclusively IA64. To get the real advantage of buying a Origin 3000 system , you would want to definately run it on the MIPS C bricks w/Irix.
Also, IRIX is no longer needed. Why? Previously they needed an O.S. that was geared directly to their hardware.
Have you ever used Irix? The day I see a version of linux that runs well on 128 CPU's is the day that the above statement becomes valid.
Look man, I know you mean well.. but check your facts because 99% of what you said was wrong (other than SGI is 'using' ia64 in upcomming systems.
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But the reality is 99% of what I could do with Linux I can also do with Darwin. The exception is that there is web-browsers available for Darwin/Aqua and won't be long before more are available.
The reality is , the only difference (to me) between using OS-X or Linux as the core of my home unix experience is the Kernel. Everything else I use and need often (bash, wget, lynx, less, wc, gcc, postgres, apache, python (mod_python), php, etc) run on top of OSX quite well without any patches or modifications.
Another brutal reality, where Linux had some crazy media hype happening in the last year, apple seems to be the new 'media star'. With the new apple stores going up and sales, according to financial earining reports, are exploding. OSX will very shotly have the broadest Unix deployment in the home. It's not a speculation or a steve wet dream, it's real.
Fortunately the community has proven that they are amazingly responsive when someone elses wanker is bigger than theirs. Maybe linux getting kicked out of the 'spotlight' will spark some modivation and co-operation. IMHO if Linux can't conquer the desktop, it will be doomed as a second rate citizen with software support from 3rd party software houses.
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
PS/SQL Powerful? Try JAVA... or even better, on postgres you have C.
My DB life started as a MS SQL DBA and I must admit that SQL 7 was a pretty nice product. For a workgroup DB server it can't be beat, though I do agree it requires way to much babysitting to sit in a datacenter.
MySQL is a joke (IMHO) for any serous database work We have a large ASP that is running completely on ASP. (We power image sharing websites).. we are getting 1-2 million hits a day from the various customers websites which we power. Also the nature of the website puts the database into a position of doing various inserts/updates/deletes/selects on VERY large tables.
After testing our application with both Oracle/Sybase (11.9)/DB2/Informix and lastly Postgres... the database that satisfied our needs of a VERY high transaction database stable and scalable was Postgresql. Version 7.1 finaly was able to impliment some of the last needed features and writing our stored procedures in C is no problem for us.
Also, the architecture of our database allows us to easily cluster our databse contents across multiple servers and PGSQL cost structure fits our needs there to keep our performance top notch.:)
I found DB2 to be just to damn touchy. Oracle was too damn expensive and... we have a policy of no Windows NT/2k machines in our datacenter so no SQL Server. Give PG a shot, you would be surprised.
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He might be a great advocate, but lord.. probably the only Orielly book i felt cheeted on. (Maybe the only other one of from ORielly would be mastering TSQL):)
*Sigh*
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On dual CPU PIII 800 running Linux it would cost about $19,000 USD for Oracle workgroup edition. For DB2 it would cost about 2500 per CPU , total of about $5,000 USD. I found Informix to be more expensive (you have to buy the enterprise edition to get things such as java stored procedures, etc) which was almost 25,000 per CPU.
I would say that right now DB2 is the best buy for the money, even over Microsoft SQL Server in terms of performance and price.
(Our company is moving to DB2 from MySQL as we speak... )
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I have a G4 466 (OSX), a Dual CPU Intel 800, a Origin 3000 class server (Work of course).. 4 CPU model.. A SGI Indy (RS5000 180mhz), a Sun Blade (500 Mhz Mips IIe), Athlon 700 (Windows 2k), Sony Viao 650mhz PIII laptop.
I would say the only machines that don't perform in relation to the mhz rating is the SGI Origin 3000 and the Sony Viao. The SGI is clearly much much much faster than my PIII w/equiv total equiv mhz (~1600)... and the Sony Viao laptop is much slower than my Apple G4 466.
But, my Athlon 700 kicks the crap out of my Sun Blade workstation at just about everything I give it. My Dual PIII workstation absolutely blows away my G4 Workstation running OSX at just about everything I do. (Fair enough, my Dual 800 is SCSI, my G4 is not)... and funny enough, my G4 seems to be just a hair slower than my 500 mhz Sun blade workstation.
Of course there are no numbers or hard benchmarks. these are just my personal observations on equipment that my company and myself owns (it's my company);-).. For the most part I believe that the MHZ myth is a myth in itself. At the core you will find that the G4 and the Athlon are not that much different. the CISC / RISC architectures made a huge difference a while ago, but now it is all bus and bandwidth. (Hense SGI performance with ccNUMA).
But again, without this myth alive how would I be able to justify my 2-3x pricetag in buying commercial Risk hardware over Intel?;-) I use SGI kit because it's very specialized on our needs of performance and scalability. Could I have done it on intel w/a better architecture? Probably....;-)
Anyway, thats my take..
geez.. and what a rant.
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Slashdot Mirror
Hmm... try making any serious java application with JDK > 1.2 in binary compatibility mode work and you will have a rude awakening.
I have a BSD machine at home and we use BSD based firewalls. I like bsd for what it is, but appreciate what it isn't.
Cheers
I will bite.
I have 10 web servers running Debian 2.2 w/old kernel and ext2fs.
Never have downtime
Never have Lost Data
.... even
Try running some benchmarks of Java application servers against a Windows Machine, HP-UX machine and a Solaris based system. You will be surprised on the results, the penguin screams. (Expecially with the IBM port of jdk 1.3 w/Native Threads).
Google is the (might I say?) most populare and usefull search engine on the internet. Powered by Linux.
Yahoo used to use BSD on their indexing engine. Seems odd, Yahoo also uses Java for a large number of their applications. Which JDK do you think they are using on those BSD machines? Might I *gasp* guess that they are not using BSD everywhere?
Get real buddy. Go off and play with your commercial unices or Windows, but when push comes to shove.. most of the new interesting applications for unix are going to Linux FIRST and other commercial unix second. I use Irix and Solaris and it's a hell of a lot easier to get stuff compiled and working on Linux.
Windows is just too hard to manage in a datacenter, just as linux might be dificult to manage in a corp. desktop environment.
But don't base your stupid facts on 4 year old kernel defaults, it's just plain FUD.
You are right to a degree. it's hard to compare apples and oranges, and bad code can be written in any language... but let me use a case example.
We have a medium sized and medium traffic and take 1-2 million hits a day. The system is extremely dynamic and quite heavy.. (we do on the fly translations and skins...). The servers definately work their money.
We are using IBM's jdk1.3 on all the servers, which seem to be 2-3x faster than the SUN jdk1.3.
All the app servers are running on Resin.
Each machine is 2proc 800mhz PIII's w/a gig of ram.
Now, generally the cluster works great.. but this is the overall trend I am seeing. The server will work fine until 10-11 pages are trying to be rendered at the same time. When this happens each page slows down to a point to where the system seems to get backlogged with requests. it's not too much time until there are 30-40 pages trying to render at the same time. We have a hefty database (running on an SGI Origin class server) and it doesn't seem to really be the bottle neck.. but the CPU's on that machine are at 100% and creeping..
The strange thing is when we are running in a low concurrency environment the pages are lightning fast...
Now there are always optimizations that one can do to speed things up.. for us caching was a save all (see http://www.opensymphony.com/ OSCache product... fine grain JSP TagLib caching classes).
I have had a lot of experience programming in Perl/FastCGI, mod_perl, mod_python and PHP and they seemed to deal with heavy loads a bit better than JAVA, but looks like IBM's jdk is leaps and bounds ahead of Sun's. (In our experience we get the performance of 30 SUN JDK servers on 10 IBM servers).
We can't even afford to look at running JAVA on a risc system. In our tests , any advantage to running on a risc system is dashed by the overhead and abstraction of the JVM.
I would love to see how our app would run on a dual processor Athlon 4.
anyway, $.02
Yeah,
;-) KDE has never looked quite so good. I would love to see this rolled into the main CVS.
I installed it on a build of KDE from last friday at home and to say the least I was stunned.
I run KDE from XWIN32 on my windows machine on a lan network and the performance of the widgets and alpha-blending was 4-5x faster than my G4 466 running OSX. (Remind you, this is over a terminal!!)
If you are impressed with the OSX widgets and menu transparancy, this is a must-see.
(NOTE: It does require a build of 2.2 or (2.2alpha) to work.
Cheers
it's funny ... the moron moderators modded you down for complaining about them! Slashdot is definately on a downhill slide.
We can ask it for the answer to the great question of the universe?
I own a small software company. I use free software to build my products (it's an web based ASP). But, I charge a HELL of a lot of money for products and services. And no, they don't get the source. I have sent diff patches in for software that I use and have found bugs in or fixed, but that's it.
Why don't I give my code and products away? Because I wouldn't have a business if I did. I sell goods to make money.. if it wasn't software it would be Beans or Cabbage. Whatever.
Monopolies will come and go, but as long as there is a need for premium or niche services (almost any business now days).. there will be commercial software and there will be people getting rich.
Unfortunately (the brutal truth).. the people who are business minded are FEEDING on people like us.
The AARPNET was created to ensure communication between NORAD and the White House/Pentagon in the event of a nuclear war.
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Maybe I am one of the few people that actually enjoy reading Jon's articles. Some I don't agree with, some I do.. but GOD... will you people quit complaining. I think some of you think it's fucking cool to rip on Jon Katz. Have you all been so conditioned in public education to ridicule and mock people and idea that you don't necessarily agree with.
... This AGAIN Jon.... What planet have you been on Jon.... A little LATE aren't we Jon... ... Jumping on this bandwagon Jon.... '.
Whenever Katz posts an article I spend more time trying to filter out the childish patronism than actually getting to a interesting and -god forbid- thought provoking response other than '.. You idiot Jon...
I enjoyed Jons work before he came to Slashdot (HotWired) and enjoy his articles here. Some I agree with, some I don't. But I am just sick of all the damn childishness you people show in these mindless responses.
To sum it up, nobody is impressed by your mindless slander.
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I think it's a more apropriate comparison. You get added benifit for old games. Two alternating screen-sizes to try and enhance the old size (wide screen) or play old games at original resolution. Everything from what I have seen of it works quite well.
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
SGI can't really win.
They too slack for taking on NT and diluted their market and percieved value. Now in assisting in build up linux, they are building an OS that, in a parallel application env. will outperform their own IRIX kit for the money. (Doesn't matter if you need 2x as many intel boxes if your only paying a fraction of the cost for the hardware versus Irix...).
This is probably a big reason that SGI is pulling out of the ia32 race and are going to soon be only supporting IRIX and ia64 equipment.
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Its funny, I was thinking the same thing .. and continue to think the same thing every time I hear the word Microsoft & anti-trust.
.NET alternative. Would anyone argue that a strong machine-independent distributed processing environment ... yada yada .. (I am not a .NET programmer, or understand 100% what it is... and I dont have the energy to waste my time talking to or reading Microsoft marketing brainwash) but the point is... Microsoft, by flexing its monopoly, has encouraged something new from Ximian and Open Source Community, and very probably to be the foundation for many more open source innovations of the future.
.NET and server-infrastructure that the desktop is eventually doomed. Does that mean that AOL is potentially as powerful as microsoft?
... but I did agree with his feeling that we should be able to beat Microsoft fair and square. Just as years ago I have made the move to Linux at home and finally the workplace, millions of others will this year too. Eventually we will hit the critical mass.
The reality of it, computer science is the base of the tech industry IMHO. Thats where the real `innovation is happening. Now, if I learned anything in comp-sci is that progress is made by working with abstractions. You can build two sets of tools (A & B) and use the two of them to build an even better tool = C. Now tool C wouldnt of been possible/realistic without A & B.
Unfortunately Microsoft is a -great- industry catalyst. Case in point, look at Ximian with now Mono, a
All I can say is I am glad that MS & AOL didnt come to a deal. I hope that they can hate each-other enough to pull a checks and balances for each-other as MS is realizing by its whole
(Sony+AOL+RedHat) ~= Microsoft?
I believe on a fair playing field, yes.
Not very often that I agree with ESR. (Often times his ego muddles what he is trying to say)
As much as we all hate Microsoft, and as much as I feel that they have ruined many companies and in certain cases stifled true innovation I do feel that they can be co-existed with having strong competition and innovation on the part of the open source community. Justice in its true sense wont happen today or tomorrow, but as every new user joins the linux movement, its a very tiny string that, with millions of others, will eventually pull the ogre down. Unfortunately, people are not patient to wait for that to happen naturally.
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
The technology giants may hit a brick wall, but someone, somewhere is comming up with a way to bypass whatever problems may arise. It's something that has pulled true for every other mainstream technology in the consumer market. I believe I read, (I don't have a link, so take it for what it is.. I could be wrong..
Demand will absolutely drive innovation in the sector.
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Thats one thing that sorta anoyed me about ReiserFS kernel module. I don't use SuSE and hate mp3.com so I simply went in and changed the output message to something amusing.
Great thing about open source, if you don't like the messages.. change em!
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Yes, my ISP was costing too much money and I am looking for a new host to dump it on. There is another project that is quite interesting as well (but not as simple) WebWare. Basically same thing, but does more
Give me another week or so and PyML will be back and kicking
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
Remember the old Netscape vs. IE reviews that they used to do 2-3 years ago... they are back!
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
The whole ideal with linux is like an old Fairy tail where there is a ruler, and the real ruler. For example, the king might rule the kingdom, but he is merely a puppet to the evil wizard behind his throne.
I see system administrators , the people who are doing the real work, as these 'evil' wizards. (Please take it evil with all effection).
Most companies I have worked at, the CTO seems to be very geeky (And your lucky if you have one like that), but the CIO and IT admins tend to listen to the second tier admin/techs/engineers. If that tier (the most expensive one) isn't happy.. the organization isn't happy.. end the end it's this second tier that seems to make the decisions in the long run.
They can rage a compaign on general public against the name of linux, but if the underlings (peasants if you will) don't buy it, nothing is going to fly.
IBM & Apple didn't quite understand that, but seems that both organizations are targeting that group very aggresively if you think about it.
:) Hoorah from the peasants !
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Linux on a PS2 (IMHO would rule...)
In our business we use MIPS based SGI equipment for doing image manipulation. I believe it wouldn't take much work to port those libraries to the PS2. We use a simple cluster of XMLRPC servers to handle image conversion requests and the data is transfered over simple NFS style filesystems.
The problem I have right now is that the image conversions have to happen on demand and in real time (well, there is a user waiting). Most of the images on the fastest PC's I can get my hands on happen in around 2 seconds. (I use Image magick, there are probably better things out there). On the Irix machine we have we can do the same conversion less than
I believe that the reason the SGI machine does so well is because of the internal bandwidth and system architecture, not so much the CPU speed. (Again, AFAIK).
Now, if I can use 13-14 playstation2's in a small cluster to get similar results (even close) would be MUCH MUCH MUCH more cost effective than a Origin class server.
Strangely enough those little machines are designed to maintain a fairly intense sustained level of io/cpu internaly without keeling over.
Just a thought... anyway. It might very well be the pro-c compilers for Irix give me the edge and with GCC I wouldn't see much of a performance gain over a normal ia32 system.
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The fact is that SGI is the only ones really using the MIPS chips.
.. but check your facts because 99% of what you said was wrong (other than SGI is 'using' ia64 in upcomming systems.
Uhh... MIPS is one of the more popular embedded systems chips on the market. They are fast and run cool. What do you think is in your Nintendo 64, Playstation2, etc? An intel processor? Motorolla? Nope
As for the Origin, they are still planning on doing the major engineering work to make it completely robust, only using the more popular Itaium chips.
Hmm... news to me. As far as I know they are going to continue using Mips and make the ia64 interchangable or different node bricks on the 3000 series machines that will support exclusively IA64. To get the real advantage of buying a Origin 3000 system , you would want to definately run it on the MIPS C bricks w/Irix. Also, IRIX is no longer needed. Why? Previously they needed an O.S. that was geared directly to their hardware. Have you ever used Irix? The day I see a version of linux that runs well on 128 CPU's is the day that the above statement becomes valid.
Look man, I know you mean well
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But the reality is 99% of what I could do with Linux I can also do with Darwin. The exception is that there is web-browsers available for Darwin/Aqua and won't be long before more are available.
The reality is , the only difference (to me) between using OS-X or Linux as the core of my home unix experience is the Kernel. Everything else I use and need often (bash, wget, lynx, less, wc, gcc, postgres, apache, python (mod_python), php, etc) run on top of OSX quite well without any patches or modifications.
Another brutal reality, where Linux had some crazy media hype happening in the last year, apple seems to be the new 'media star'. With the new apple stores going up and sales, according to financial earining reports, are exploding. OSX will very shotly have the broadest Unix deployment in the home. It's not a speculation or a steve wet dream, it's real.
Fortunately the community has proven that they are amazingly responsive when someone elses wanker is bigger than theirs. Maybe linux getting kicked out of the 'spotlight' will spark some modivation and co-operation. IMHO if Linux can't conquer the desktop, it will be doomed as a second rate citizen with software support from 3rd party software houses.
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PS/SQL Powerful? Try JAVA... or even better, on postgres you have C.
:)
... we have a policy of no Windows NT/2k machines in our datacenter so no SQL Server. Give PG a shot, you would be surprised.
My DB life started as a MS SQL DBA and I must admit that SQL 7 was a pretty nice product. For a workgroup DB server it can't be beat, though I do agree it requires way to much babysitting to sit in a datacenter.
MySQL is a joke (IMHO) for any serous database work We have a large ASP that is running completely on ASP. (We power image sharing websites).. we are getting 1-2 million hits a day from the various customers websites which we power. Also the nature of the website puts the database into a position of doing various inserts/updates/deletes/selects on VERY large tables.
After testing our application with both Oracle/Sybase (11.9)/DB2/Informix and lastly Postgres... the database that satisfied our needs of a VERY high transaction database stable and scalable was Postgresql. Version 7.1 finaly was able to impliment some of the last needed features and writing our stored procedures in C is no problem for us.
Also, the architecture of our database allows us to easily cluster our databse contents across multiple servers and PGSQL cost structure fits our needs there to keep our performance top notch.
I found DB2 to be just to damn touchy. Oracle was too damn expensive and
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He might be a great advocate, but lord.. probably the only Orielly book i felt cheeted on. (Maybe the only other one of from ORielly would be mastering TSQL) :)
*Sigh*
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It's funny how every geek thinks that they are better looking than the rest of the geeks out there.
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Would you like a Python based alternative to PHP/ASP/JSP?
On dual CPU PIII 800 running Linux it would cost about $19,000 USD for Oracle workgroup edition. For DB2 it would cost about 2500 per CPU , total of about $5,000 USD. I found Informix to be more expensive (you have to buy the enterprise edition to get things such as java stored procedures, etc) which was almost 25,000 per CPU.
I would say that right now DB2 is the best buy for the money, even over Microsoft SQL Server in terms of performance and price.
(Our company is moving to DB2 from MySQL as we speak... )
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I have a G4 466 (OSX), a Dual CPU Intel 800, a Origin 3000 class server (Work of course)
I would say the only machines that don't perform in relation to the mhz rating is the SGI Origin 3000 and the Sony Viao. The SGI is clearly much much much faster than my PIII w/equiv total equiv mhz (~1600)... and the Sony Viao laptop is much slower than my Apple G4 466.
But, my Athlon 700 kicks the crap out of my Sun Blade workstation at just about everything I give it. My Dual PIII workstation absolutely blows away my G4 Workstation running OSX at just about everything I do. (Fair enough, my Dual 800 is SCSI, my G4 is not)... and funny enough, my G4 seems to be just a hair slower than my 500 mhz Sun blade workstation.
Of course there are no numbers or hard benchmarks. these are just my personal observations on equipment that my company and myself owns (it's my company)
But again, without this myth alive how would I be able to justify my 2-3x pricetag in buying commercial Risk hardware over Intel?
Anyway, thats my take..
geez.. and what a rant.
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