Uh, I think I could "scare" up one somewhere in my piles of old crap lying about. Only, I don't want to put the effort into scraping up that much RAM in 30-pin SIMMs.
Unless you like playing a game at 1-3 seconds per frame...:->
Seriously, there's people working to make other display adapters work with this- it's just that you may have to wait until it ships before you can use something other than a Voodoo/Voodoo2 based adapter. Got any programming skills and a G200 or SiS 6326 based adapter? Join in on the fun and help us make this happen!
This is the engine test version of Quake 3:Arena from Id Software. No, it's not a demo. It's a very ROUGH cut of the engine and some frameworks to get a feel for the playability of the game and to do a little showing off of Id's abilitites. If you've got a hot machine, have a 3DfX based display accelerator in your machine (or something suitably OpenGL supporting, more appropriately) you might be interested if you like things Quake...
Part of the problem is that you're using alpha drivers to try this thing out on your machine- on top of Red Hat's odd system setup. If you don't put the server, etc. in the right place, it's not going to even come close to working right. And the link to the X server that works is different for when you use xdm versus startx under Red Hat 5.2 (Which is a gripe I had when I tried to get my SiS I've got to work.)
I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying, but I had to add a few tidbits o' my own to the thread...
2. Yes releasing full specs would be better Matrox has done it. Which means that 3Dfx can be convinced to do it. We do need to fight the culture of hardware secrecy that permeates many parts of the electronics industry
While Matrox released most of the specs, they omitted some rather critical pieces that provide the peak speed for the G200. It's the same story with the Millenium/Mystique- it'll do busmastering DMA on data transfers and seems to have texture caching, etc. Try finding anything other than a passing mention of any of that in the Millenium or Mystique specs. While they're better than most of the rest at what they should be doing by our standards, they're still infected with that same culture- just not as bad as companies like ATI or NVidia.
3. But binary only is fine for now At least they're making an effort at OS support. It's their hardware, and Glide is their code. They should have a choice about how they want it used. Why should we turn down binary support for an important API?
We shouldn't- but by the same token, I'm not going to be as inclined to accept them because they didn't go far enough with programming info for their chips. In this regard, they're only slightly better than ATI. Today, we'll accept them because they're the only game in town for 3D. Tomorrow, that's another story altogether- it's up to them how the play goes down.
4. Writing our own drivers, even from the specs, is hard I know they're doing it for Matrox with GLX. It remains to be seen whether it will ever be a usably fast GL tho. 3DCards are about the most complex peripheral you could put in your computer. Writing drivers for them isn't trivial, and the drivers need to be really good to be usable -- right now the G200 drivers aren't even near there yet. I would like to see the Open Driver movement prove itself with truly excellent G200 drivers before we go demanding the right to write drivers for other hardware.
It is hard- not so much the complextity of driving the 3D functions, that's moderately easy. It's pushing all that data to the card in a way that's fast. I know- I've been working at the Millenium GLX driver (the baseline for the G200 work) and I'm working on a driver for the SiS 6326 chip. (Time permitting, of course- work's got me doing a Linux version of our product and I want to win that design win!)
I agree, we need to come forward with one or two winners before we really start putting the screws to the other vendors for open sourced support- but I don't know how far we're going to get with the G200. Like I said, some critical info's been withheld from us. Some of it is Matrox's doing- we're missing some tech data in that release of the G200 programming specs, like the information to drive the WARP triangle setup engine. Some of it is Intel's doing- try prying details of the GART's programming from them (hint: it's needed to at least some extent to be able to really use the AGP spec to it's fullest for system memory textures, etc.). Without these, I don't know how fast we're going to get it. I'm hoping 30-ish fps with a decent PII or equivalent running against Quake II or III. As for my efforts on the SiS, I don't know how far I'm going to get- I'm looking at having to do the X server fixes (No X accel is not acceptable- we've had the specs for this chip for a while now!) and the driver files as well as doing my work during the day- time will tell.
Just look at all that has went on in the DOJ trial to date and see what's been filed in the Caldera trial to see that. They violated the law (surprise, surprise) and now they've got to pay. It's as simple as that. Now, I don't exactly agree with the original poster's philosophy- but you, are off way out in left field when the hit was a bunt to first.
..."How in the heck did they get the 'rating' in the first place?" I'm pretty sure that they're not going to let that out of their hands any time soon.
This guy would be called a (f)lametroll on USENET- it's no different when the tripe's spewed on a newspaper or magazine. It's an Op-Ed piece- and as such is beneath our consideration considering how at odds this clown is with reality. Don't bother sending him anything. If you feel a response is needed- let's all come up with a reasoned one, put it up on the WWW, and then send an e-mail to the Chicago Tribune telling them where our response is with full permission to re-print with attributions.
This tripe that graced the Tribune's pages and web site is nothing more than more FUD mongering- and the truth is the best weapon against the FUD.
And I agree, WE SHOULD NOT BE GIVING THIS CLOWN ANYTHING. He wrote this as a (f)lametroll- he really did. And he shouldn't be given the gratification of the roasting he richly deserves from it because it'll just give him ammo to use against us further.
I'm glad it won't happen...
on
Why Kids Kill
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· Score: 1
The Bible wouldn't have things like that in it- thank the Lord. You're not going to find answers in all of this by making statements like that.
They're looking for scapegoats- so are most of us. We need to find the CAUSE- not something to blame.
A gun is just a tool, nothing more.
on
Why Kids Kill
·
· Score: 1
Believe me when I say that there's a lot of tools of "mass slaughter"- and not all of them are guns. Ignorance of that very fact is at the heart of that old premise that you're using. If guns aren't allowed to the people, who should have them? The government alone? Please, be more realistic.
And, shouldn't you be asking whether or not you're looking for scapegoats too? After all, you're blaming guns for the problem- when it's not guns at all, it's something else. You've got to realize that in espousing your reasoning that you're no better than the person you're tarring with that big brush.
Mozilla was shaping up- right now, I'm wondering if there's a possibility to salvage Gecko and transplant it to another browser, say Mnemonic...
As for the list you gave:
Lynx- Nice. Amaya- Cumbersome to use. Unless you've got a style sheet telling it what to do, it renders wierd... Mnemonic- Definitely a possibility. It's also a canidate for the transplant of Gecko...
It might be nice to meet some of the crowd in person- if they go... I do know I'll probably go- it's in Austin, a short 4 hour (or less...:-) drive would be nice in the middle of the week and I know my employer WILL pay me to go to this one...:->
1) It will very likely be able to play those old PSX games (compatibility is nice...)
2) It's apparently using a much higher horsepower processor- it's going to be able to do more sophisticated things, things that would be intractable on the Dreamcast.
3) They are positioning the Playstation2 with DVD capabilities apparently (some of the pictures show the DVD logo on the console of the Playstation2)- if Dreamcast is using just a CD drive, they lose. (I'd sure pay $200-300US for a console that also played DVDs like other DVD players. It's like getting the console for nothing.)
So what if Sony comes to market "late"- Sega's going to have to pull a rabbit out of their hat. Unless they get most of the games companies out there in their camp, making decent games at a decent price point, the Dreamcast will go down in flames like the Saturn did.
Problem is- CSS isn't used all that much...
on
Mozilla M4 is Out
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· Score: 1
Why? Because until recently, there hasn't been any browsers that properly supported CSS in any way shape or form. So what do you use to make things "look right" if you don't have CSS-1 at your disposal?
Tables.
So there's going to be a LOT of sites out there that don't use CSS and use tables- so you've got to get both working correctly or else you might as well have not bothered...
Seems to be faster- but also has odd probs...
on
Mozilla M4 is Out
·
· Score: 1
I'm usomng it to edit this comment. It's faster rendering ut when I press the spacebar it pops me to the BOTTOM of the page.. Wierd, it's also NOT word-wrapping! ARRRGH!
What if Programmer A's code is more stable, does error checking, etc.? I'd say that it was A that did a better job than B. Which, of course, helps prove the point you were reaching at- your premise is a bit off, that's all...
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Uh, I think I could "scare" up one somewhere in my piles of old crap lying about. Only, I don't want to put the effort into scraping up that much RAM in 30-pin SIMMs.
I'd set it up on this little overclocked 486-66 (to 80) machine I've got sitting over in the corner collecting dust... ;->
Unless you like playing a game at 1-3 seconds per frame... :->
Seriously, there's people working to make other display adapters work with this- it's just that you may have to wait until it ships before you can use something other than a Voodoo/Voodoo2 based adapter. Got any programming skills and a G200 or SiS 6326 based adapter? Join in on the fun and help us make this happen!
This is the engine test version of Quake 3:Arena from Id Software. No, it's not a demo. It's a very ROUGH cut of the engine and some frameworks to get a feel for the playability of the game and to do a little showing off of Id's abilitites. If you've got a hot machine, have a 3DfX based display accelerator in your machine (or something suitably OpenGL supporting, more appropriately) you might be interested if you like things Quake...
Part of the problem is that you're using alpha drivers to try this thing out on your machine- on top of Red Hat's odd system setup. If you don't put the server, etc. in the right place, it's not going to even come close to working right. And the link to the X server that works is different for when you use xdm versus startx under Red Hat 5.2 (Which is a gripe I had when I tried to get my SiS I've got to work.)
An AC calling someone a coward- what a world.
Really now, do you expect a college student to muster the financial resources to take on 3DfX legally speaking? What have you been smokin' lately?
They're popping up all along the Dallas North Tollway corridor.
I'd have thought that it was Dallas that was #1 or #2...
I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying, but I had to add a few tidbits o' my own to the thread...
2. Yes releasing full specs would be better
Matrox has done it. Which means that 3Dfx can be convinced to do it. We do need to fight the culture of hardware secrecy that permeates many parts of the electronics industry
While Matrox released most of the specs, they omitted some rather critical pieces that provide the peak speed for the G200. It's the same story with the Millenium/Mystique- it'll do busmastering DMA on data transfers and seems to have texture caching, etc. Try finding anything other than a passing mention of any of that in the Millenium or Mystique specs. While they're better than most of the rest at what they should be doing by our standards, they're still infected with that same culture- just not as bad as companies like ATI or NVidia.
3. But binary only is fine for now
At least they're making an effort at OS support. It's their hardware, and Glide is their code. They should have a choice about how they want it used. Why should we turn down binary support for an important API?
We shouldn't- but by the same token, I'm not going to be as inclined to accept them because they didn't go far enough with programming info for their chips. In this regard, they're only slightly better than ATI. Today, we'll accept them because they're the only game in town for 3D. Tomorrow, that's another story altogether- it's up to them how the play goes down.
4. Writing our own drivers, even from the specs, is hard
I know they're doing it for Matrox with GLX. It remains to be seen whether it will ever be a usably fast GL tho. 3DCards are about the most complex peripheral you could put in your computer. Writing drivers for them isn't trivial, and the drivers need to be really good to be usable -- right now the G200 drivers aren't even near there yet. I would like to see the Open Driver movement prove itself with truly excellent G200 drivers before we go demanding the right to write drivers for other hardware.
It is hard- not so much the complextity of driving the 3D functions, that's moderately easy. It's pushing all that data to the card in a way that's fast. I know- I've been working at the Millenium GLX driver (the baseline for the G200 work) and I'm working on a driver for the SiS 6326 chip. (Time permitting, of course- work's got me doing a Linux version of our product and I want to win that design win!)
I agree, we need to come forward with one or two winners before we really start putting the screws to the other vendors for open sourced support- but I don't know how far we're going to get with the G200. Like I said, some critical info's been withheld from us. Some of it is Matrox's doing- we're missing some tech data in that release of the G200 programming specs, like the information to drive the WARP triangle setup engine. Some of it is Intel's doing- try prying details of the GART's programming from them (hint: it's needed to at least some extent to be able to really use the AGP spec to it's fullest for system memory textures, etc.). Without these, I don't know how fast we're going to get it. I'm hoping 30-ish fps with a decent PII or equivalent running against Quake II or III. As for my efforts on the SiS, I don't know how far I'm going to get- I'm looking at having to do the X server fixes (No X accel is not acceptable- we've had the specs for this chip for a while now!) and the driver files as well as doing my work during the day- time will tell.
Just look at all that has went on in the DOJ trial to date and see what's been filed in the Caldera trial to see that. They violated the law (surprise, surprise) and now they've got to pay. It's as simple as that. Now, I don't exactly agree with the original poster's philosophy- but you, are off way out in left field when the hit was a bunt to first.
I've got both options and I'm opting xDSL- thank the Lord.
..."How in the heck did they get the 'rating' in the first place?" I'm pretty sure that they're not going to let that out of their hands any time soon.
This guy would be called a (f)lametroll on USENET- it's no different when the tripe's spewed on a newspaper or magazine. It's an Op-Ed piece- and as such is beneath our consideration considering how at odds this clown is with reality. Don't bother sending him anything. If you feel a response is needed- let's all come up with a reasoned one, put it up on the WWW, and then send an e-mail to the Chicago Tribune telling them where our response is with full permission to re-print with attributions.
This tripe that graced the Tribune's pages and web site is nothing more than more FUD mongering- and the truth is the best weapon against the FUD.
I'll be brief- you're right.
And I agree, WE SHOULD NOT BE GIVING THIS CLOWN ANYTHING. He wrote this as a (f)lametroll- he really did. And he shouldn't be given the gratification of the roasting he richly deserves from it because it'll just give him ammo to use against us further.
The Bible wouldn't have things like that in it- thank the Lord. You're not going to find answers in all of this by making statements like that.
They're looking for scapegoats- so are most of us. We need to find the CAUSE- not something to blame.
Believe me when I say that there's a lot of tools of "mass slaughter"- and not all of them are guns. Ignorance of that very fact is at the heart of that old premise that you're using. If guns aren't allowed to the people, who should have them? The government alone? Please, be more realistic.
And, shouldn't you be asking whether or not you're looking for scapegoats too? After all, you're blaming guns for the problem- when it's not guns at all, it's something else. You've got to realize that in espousing your reasoning that you're no better than the person you're tarring with that big brush.
Mozilla was shaping up- right now, I'm wondering if there's a possibility to salvage Gecko and transplant it to another browser, say Mnemonic...
As for the list you gave:
Lynx- Nice.
Amaya- Cumbersome to use. Unless you've got a style sheet telling it what to do, it renders wierd...
Mnemonic- Definitely a possibility. It's also a canidate for the transplant of Gecko...
You saved me the trouble of saying the same thing...
It might be nice to meet some of the crowd in person- if they go... I do know I'll probably go- it's in Austin, a short 4 hour (or less... :-) drive would be nice in the middle of the week and I know my employer WILL pay me to go to this one... :->
...and everybody would jump at it.
1) It will very likely be able to play those old PSX games (compatibility is nice...)
2) It's apparently using a much higher horsepower processor- it's going to be able to do more sophisticated things, things that would be intractable on the Dreamcast.
3) They are positioning the Playstation2 with DVD capabilities apparently (some of the pictures show the DVD logo on the console of the Playstation2)- if Dreamcast is using just a CD drive, they lose. (I'd sure pay $200-300US for a console that also played DVDs like other DVD players. It's like getting the console for nothing.)
So what if Sony comes to market "late"- Sega's going to have to pull a rabbit out of their hat. Unless they get most of the games companies out there in their camp, making decent games at a decent price point, the Dreamcast will go down in flames like the Saturn did.
Why? Because until recently, there hasn't been any browsers that properly supported CSS in any way shape or form. So what do you use to make things "look right" if you don't have CSS-1 at your disposal?
Tables.
So there's going to be a LOT of sites out there that don't use CSS and use tables- so you've got to get both working correctly or else you might as well have not bothered...
I HATE it when I'm typing blind!
I'm usomng it to edit this comment. It's faster rendering ut when I press the spacebar
it pops me to the BOTTOM of the page.. Wierd, it's also NOT word-wrapping! ARRRGH!
What if Programmer A's code is more stable, does error checking, etc.? I'd say that it was A that did a better job than B. Which, of course, helps prove the point you were reaching at- your premise is a bit off, that's all...