We got his hard drives. We got his journals. We got his live-in courier. We got damned near everything.
Except for...the most notorious and sought-after criminal in the history of mankind. Public Enemy #1. And we had his ass. All we had to do was open up the chopper doors and reel him in. Instead he's dead. You obviously don't care about that, but I take a slightly broader perspective.
And, yes, Binny Boy. What? Do you have a copyright or trademark right to that name, or what?
Sorry, you are correct about "crown prince." Osama bin Laden was a distant member of the Saudi royal family (perhaps merely by marriage? I'm not gonna look this up right now), but he was not a prince (or the equivalent). My error.
My overall assertion stands though. The rich and powerful don't tend to do their own shooting. That's what money's for.
because otherwise you have to concoct various conspiracy theories explaining why both are lying
First, let's dispense with the phrase "conspiracy theories," shall we? We're all adults here. We needn't hide behind weasel words.
Yes, I've heard of Occam's Razor. I've also heard the phrase "Cui bono?" It's a rule I tend to find much more applicable to questions of foreign policy, because no, the simplest explanation is usually not the correct one. So, cui bono? It benefits our military and intelligence establishment to pin the blame for 9/11 on Islamist elements because it gave us an excuse for this endless fucking war. It benefits the Islamists to claim credit for the attack because it gave them street cred. Simple enough for you? No conspiracies required.
Nor am I forwarding any such "conspiracy theory." I am not saying "I don't think al Qaida did it, and here's who I think did it." I'm saying "There is no evidence," and that is all I'm saying. And that's not an opinion, that's not a theory, that's objective analysis based on publicly available information.
A Saudi crown prince personally took up arms in Afghanistan? I'm not saying it's impossible, but I am not convinced. I find it vastly more likely that he ordered others to do so.
It's good enough.
No it's not. Plenty of loonies took credit for it, just like plenty of loonies have taken credit for every terrorist action ever, before or since. That's not proof.
We took the one where we actually had past evidence linking them to this. That they came out and acknowledged it merely gave credence to that evidence.
What evidence? The "classified" evidence? Why the hell should anyone believe that? Remember Oklahoma City? They tried to pin that on "Islamist militants" too, before McVeigh and Nichols confessed. The US government has a long-established pattern of trying to blame any and everything that they possibly can on the scary brown terrorists. Make with the proof or GTFO.
People who danced in the streets after 5/2, cheered the death of a single self-proclaimed militant who has likely killed people personally
Citation needed.
and on whose orders thousands of innocent people have died - which he never denied.
Citation still needed. I have seen zero pieces of evidence that Osama bin Laden ordered the 9/11 attacks. He took credit for it - years later - because that's what terrorist organizations do, whether they did it or not. Dozens of organizations took credit for 9/11. We picked one that was politically convenient for us. Nothing more.
I can count the number of successful terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11 on...wait for it...zero hands. They are 0 for ten years. Meanwhile, we've been bombing them into the goddamn stone age every single fucking day of every single week.
Don't be such a chickenshit. They're not supervillains.
What would the pictures tell you that you don't already know?
That we put one bullet in the side of the head of an unarmed man. The most wanted man in world history. An unarmed 60 year old man who posed no threat and we could have brought him in. He could be in custody now. We had him.
Anyone who tosses around the phrase "conspiracy loons" is hiding from something. So what is it?
I said it after the announcement, there were going to be incorrect pieces.
Yeah, like the complete lack of a firefight or any hostilities whatever. I'd say that's pretty hard to fuck up. Bullets are pretty unmistakable. As is their lack.
Grow a pair, man. We've had these fuckers on the run for ten goddamn years. Want proof? I can count the number of successful terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11 on zero hands. They blew their wad a decade ago, and we've been bombing them back into the stone age ever since. If they had a move to make, they'd be making it, pictures or no. Quit hiding under the covers and be a man. They're not fucking supervillains.
If in custody, I would wager al quaida would make at least one attempt to get him back, and hen could mean taking a shit load of hostages.
We've had high-value targets in custody at Guantanamo for literally ten fucking years now. Have there been any escapes? Attempted escapes? Breakouts? Attempted breakouts? Anything? Anything? They're not super-villains, you know.
If he had waved a white flag, and crawled out of the compound praising America, and kissed every Seal's ass in sight, he still needed killing. I don't care if it was an ordered assasination, or he went down fighting. It just makes no difference.
You don't care that the most wanted man in the history of the world was caught with his pants down, unarmed and helpless, and rather than bring that son of a bitch in we shot him in the face?! You don't care that now you will never know what that man knew? You are a fucking idiot. We had him. We had him fucking nailed, we had a chopper on the spot, we could have him in American custody now. Instead he's dead and his secrets died with him. And you don't care. You don't want to know why.
They gunned down an unarmed man who may in fact have been attempting to surrender. The most wanted man in American history, perhaps in the history of the world, and rather than bring him in, they shot him down. If that picture shows one bullet hole at point-blank in the side of the head, you can bet your ass it'd raise some serious questions.
Quit hiding behind the phrase "conspiracy theories." It's intellectually dishonest. It's a pejorative without a meaning.
The conspiracy theorists argue that they're hiding him
I've heard no such argument. I've heard very reasonable reports that we shot down an unarmed man who we could easily have taken in. Bin Laden could be in American custody right now. Instead we gunned him down. Why?
At this point those who deny Bin Laden's death are as nutty as climate change deniers, thinking there's a big cover-up in the face of a massive incentive to disprove the current theory.
Whenever someone pulls out the phrase "conspiracy theories," you can bet they're trying to hide from something.
I can think of all kinds of plausible, "non-conspiracy" reasons (whatever the hell that even means) that the administration would not want the pictures released. The first one that springs to mind is that it's a picture of one bullet hole in the side of the head of an unarmed man. We could have brought him in.
Slashdot Mirror
We got his hard drives. We got his journals. We got his live-in courier. We got damned near everything.
Except for...the most notorious and sought-after criminal in the history of mankind. Public Enemy #1. And we had his ass. All we had to do was open up the chopper doors and reel him in. Instead he's dead. You obviously don't care about that, but I take a slightly broader perspective.
And, yes, Binny Boy. What? Do you have a copyright or trademark right to that name, or what?
No, it makes you sound like a fucking idiot.
I use Arch, and I didn't even have to reinstall when I got a new machine. I pulled the old hard drive and plugged it in. Done deal.
Every year or so I wipe the drive with a fresh XP-CD install, and need to reinstall my favorite programs, but that would be true of any OS
Absurd. I don't do that with GNU/Linux. Ever. Not even when I move the installation to new metal. Not. Ever.
Sorry, you are correct about "crown prince." Osama bin Laden was a distant member of the Saudi royal family (perhaps merely by marriage? I'm not gonna look this up right now), but he was not a prince (or the equivalent). My error.
My overall assertion stands though. The rich and powerful don't tend to do their own shooting. That's what money's for.
because otherwise you have to concoct various conspiracy theories explaining why both are lying
First, let's dispense with the phrase "conspiracy theories," shall we? We're all adults here. We needn't hide behind weasel words.
Yes, I've heard of Occam's Razor. I've also heard the phrase "Cui bono?" It's a rule I tend to find much more applicable to questions of foreign policy, because no, the simplest explanation is usually not the correct one. So, cui bono? It benefits our military and intelligence establishment to pin the blame for 9/11 on Islamist elements because it gave us an excuse for this endless fucking war. It benefits the Islamists to claim credit for the attack because it gave them street cred. Simple enough for you? No conspiracies required.
Nor am I forwarding any such "conspiracy theory." I am not saying "I don't think al Qaida did it, and here's who I think did it." I'm saying "There is no evidence," and that is all I'm saying. And that's not an opinion, that's not a theory, that's objective analysis based on publicly available information.
Osama fought the Soviets in Afghanistan.
A Saudi crown prince personally took up arms in Afghanistan? I'm not saying it's impossible, but I am not convinced. I find it vastly more likely that he ordered others to do so.
It's good enough.
No it's not. Plenty of loonies took credit for it, just like plenty of loonies have taken credit for every terrorist action ever, before or since. That's not proof.
We took the one where we actually had past evidence linking them to this. That they came out and acknowledged it merely gave credence to that evidence.
What evidence? The "classified" evidence? Why the hell should anyone believe that? Remember Oklahoma City? They tried to pin that on "Islamist militants" too, before McVeigh and Nichols confessed. The US government has a long-established pattern of trying to blame any and everything that they possibly can on the scary brown terrorists. Make with the proof or GTFO.
People who danced in the streets after 5/2, cheered the death of a single self-proclaimed militant who has likely killed people personally
Citation needed.
and on whose orders thousands of innocent people have died - which he never denied.
Citation still needed. I have seen zero pieces of evidence that Osama bin Laden ordered the 9/11 attacks. He took credit for it - years later - because that's what terrorist organizations do, whether they did it or not. Dozens of organizations took credit for 9/11. We picked one that was politically convenient for us. Nothing more.
And maybe that's why we shot him in the back.
I can count the number of successful terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11 on...wait for it...zero hands. They are 0 for ten years. Meanwhile, we've been bombing them into the goddamn stone age every single fucking day of every single week.
Don't be such a chickenshit. They're not supervillains.
What would the pictures tell you that you don't already know?
That we put one bullet in the side of the head of an unarmed man. The most wanted man in world history. An unarmed 60 year old man who posed no threat and we could have brought him in. He could be in custody now. We had him.
Screenshot or it didn't fucking happen.
Anyone who tosses around the phrase "conspiracy loons" is hiding from something. So what is it?
I said it after the announcement, there were going to be incorrect pieces.
Yeah, like the complete lack of a firefight or any hostilities whatever. I'd say that's pretty hard to fuck up. Bullets are pretty unmistakable. As is their lack.
Yes. A more spineless bunch of pussies I've never seen. It makes me sick to call myself their countryman. But rest assured, we're not all like that.
Grow a pair, man. We've had these fuckers on the run for ten goddamn years. Want proof? I can count the number of successful terrorist attacks on American soil since 9/11 on zero hands. They blew their wad a decade ago, and we've been bombing them back into the stone age ever since. If they had a move to make, they'd be making it, pictures or no. Quit hiding under the covers and be a man. They're not fucking supervillains.
Quit living in fucking fear. You are helping them win. Grow a pair.
Bullshit.
I'm sure killing him wasn't an easy task
Yeah, shooting that unarmed 60 year old man in the face must have been just a bitch.
In killing OBL America has moved further away from the moral high ground that it once prided itself on.
I completely agree.
If in custody, I would wager al quaida would make at least one attempt to get him back, and hen could mean taking a shit load of hostages.
We've had high-value targets in custody at Guantanamo for literally ten fucking years now. Have there been any escapes? Attempted escapes? Breakouts? Attempted breakouts? Anything? Anything? They're not super-villains, you know.
In custody he becomes a rallying point.
Too late.
He would be a global political nightmare.
Too late.
and several other i probably don't need to list.
I think you do.
massive security risk in doing the trial (what if he breaks out or something)
"Breaks out?" With what, his super heat vision? Are you daft? How many people have broken out of Guantanamo? Can you name one?
there is a 99.99999% chance that he would have "not survived capture"
No shit, and that's exactly what happened. "One day you too may be shot trying to escape."
Binny Boy
"Binny Boy?" What the fuck is this? Grow up.
If he had waved a white flag, and crawled out of the compound praising America, and kissed every Seal's ass in sight, he still needed killing. I don't care if it was an ordered assasination, or he went down fighting. It just makes no difference.
You don't care that the most wanted man in the history of the world was caught with his pants down, unarmed and helpless, and rather than bring that son of a bitch in we shot him in the face?! You don't care that now you will never know what that man knew? You are a fucking idiot. We had him. We had him fucking nailed, we had a chopper on the spot, we could have him in American custody now. Instead he's dead and his secrets died with him. And you don't care. You don't want to know why.
Well fuck you. I do care.
They gunned down an unarmed man who may in fact have been attempting to surrender. The most wanted man in American history, perhaps in the history of the world, and rather than bring him in, they shot him down. If that picture shows one bullet hole at point-blank in the side of the head, you can bet your ass it'd raise some serious questions.
Quit hiding behind the phrase "conspiracy theories." It's intellectually dishonest. It's a pejorative without a meaning.
The conspiracy theorists argue that they're hiding him
I've heard no such argument. I've heard very reasonable reports that we shot down an unarmed man who we could easily have taken in. Bin Laden could be in American custody right now. Instead we gunned him down. Why?
At this point those who deny Bin Laden's death are as nutty as climate change deniers, thinking there's a big cover-up in the face of a massive incentive to disprove the current theory.
Ad hominem much?
Whenever someone pulls out the phrase "conspiracy theories," you can bet they're trying to hide from something.
I can think of all kinds of plausible, "non-conspiracy" reasons (whatever the hell that even means) that the administration would not want the pictures released. The first one that springs to mind is that it's a picture of one bullet hole in the side of the head of an unarmed man. We could have brought him in.
Have you thought of the legal implications of turning over all those minors' data to a third party?
I'm running modern software and meeting today's needs on a desktop with far lower specs than the R60.
If you're asking "can we talk about Google without talking about reprehensible data mining?" the answer is no. Next question.
Third party vendors should not go through Apple then. We've all known about these scumbags for years.