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Sergey Brin: Windows Is "Torturing Users"
jbrodkin writes "Google created Chrome OS because Windows is 'torturing users,' Google co-founder Sergey Brin says. Only about 20% of Google employees use Windows, with the rest on Mac and Linux, and Brin hopes that by next year nearly all Googlers will be using Chromebooks. 'With Microsoft, and other operating system vendors, I think the complexity of managing your computer is really torturing users,' Brin told reporters at Google I/O. 'It's torturing everyone in this room. It's a flawed model fundamentally. Chromebooks are a new model that doesn't put the burden of managing the computer on yourself.' Google claims 75% of business users could be moved from Windows computers to Chrome laptops."
I love how "With Microsoft, and other operating system vendors, I think the complexity of managing your computer is really torturing users" becomes "With Microsoft, I think the complexity of managing your computer is really torturing users"
Really? This passes for a story, this is a blatant ad.
I feel no torture as I write this from my Windows box.
Company bringing out product says competition bad. News at 11.
Negative quote about "Microsoft and others" summarised on Slashdot as negative quote about Microsoft. News at 11.
Is anyone else as bored of this shit as me?
Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, and stupid comments are intentional.
They use Linux (amongst others) because managing Windows is too complex. Seriously?
I could see the "torture" thing specifically for Microsoft but it really doesn't fly for more robust products.
This really comes off like lame iPad propaganda. Except Google doesn't have any legacy products they're trying to trash.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Why would people need to move from Windows computers (presumably PCs) to Chrome laptops? Are there any good reasons why a business user would want to be using a laptop? I know I wouldn't.
Makes sense.
I believe windows is the favorite OS of masochists.
Homer no function beer well without.
Last time I used a Mac it tortured me, because I wasn't used to use it. How funny how that works. I'm sure he feels tortured because he isn't used to Windows.
Nothing to see here other than a marketing scheme. Move along.
News at 11 about Microsoft CEO mentioning that IE is faster and more user-friendly than Google Chrome.
And on that. I have Linux and Windows 7 at home. I have had better luck on using video conversion tools on Windows than on my Linux box. But I guess I mustn't be a good geek user. Then again I'm not a Google Employee, but working as a windows application/service programmer for a small company because that is their business model.
If Windows is torturing it's users, and ...
Only about 20% of Google employees use Windows,
... then at least 20% of Google employees are masochists.
Masochist: "Hurt me, hurt me, PLEASE HURT ME!"
Sadist: "No. SUFFER!"
Let's call it what it is, Anti-Social Media.
This time around, the big difference is, Google has a revenue stream, some independence from Windows and management has some proven track record. But they are not competing against Windows95 either. Every niche from phone size all the way to 35 inch cine screen, from sub Gig memory machines all the way up to 128 GB monsters, are fully populated and variety of processors and OSes and business models proliferate. May be Chromachines will cut through the clutter and succeed. Or not. Only time will tell.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
It doesn't have office. But 75% of businesses will be okay with using Google Docs instead.
Wow. I'm not 100% convinced they're wrong, but I must say, that is confident made-up crap taken to an Ubuntu Studio sort of level.
The things [exclusively] Windows users experience passes for "normal" most of the time and they never realize the abuses they deal with on a regular basis.
These things simply don't exist in other OSes. Things like shutting down taking almost as much time as starting up? What could be going on in the background in the shut-down process that could or should take so long?
But to be fair, it's not just Microsoft Windows that is the cause -- it's all those damned vendors who feel like they need to install a "quick load widget" with every program. And guess what happens when EVERYTHING installs one of those? Yup! (Damn you HP and all the rest! We don't want you quick-launchers and your damned ink/toner monitors!! We don't want your convenient drag and drop DVD burner tray applet!!)
This is what really tortures users. Any one of these things by themselves are not so bad. But any combination of them will cause torture.
Some people are masochists and enjoy the pain of spyware and virus removal and/or dependency issues, upgrade problems, and lack of software support.
Some people are sadists and enjoy turning the "you don't own the hardware or software" model into a real life thing which they pretend won't be like leased access to a mainframe.
Others just want to use something that works for them and don't want to have some multi-billionaire telling them what they should want.
Sergey, I'm so very glad that your staff enjoys a mix of Windows, Linux, OS X, and Chrome. I like them all, except Chrome, too. I really don't feel miserable using Windows anymore (in fact, I feel far more miserable using OS X simply because I just don't know what's going on behind the scenes--and yes, I realize that's the way most people like it) and Linux has been powering my home network/servers for more than 15 years.
So to each their own. Go back to flying your planes, driving your boats, and making great ad-supported software which I can block out using AdBlock Plus for Firefox and keep your comments about what software and hardware choices I should make to yourself. We'll all be better off for it.
Computer Manages You!
If you read between the lines, this is a play to take away a user's ability to change the system rather than hiding that complexity to make the system easier to use. The difference is, in principle, about who ultimately controls the system. Google are going to roll out an Apple-like OS that locks the users in and make the same claim Apple makes about a better user experience to justify their choices.
Also, as a random aside, any company which moves their staff to Linux has lost a lot of legitimacy when they claim they have interests in bringing up the standard of usability or the user experience. Linux is far worse than Windows in terms of user experience (& complexity). I wouldn't even compare Linux to Windows 7, I would compare Windows 95 to Ubuntu 11, and honestly feel Windows 95 would win that battle.
Last point, I bet 70% non-Windows, means at least 60% on OS X, and approximately 10% on Linux.
Are there any good reasons why a business user would want to be using a laptop?
Because business users work in different locations on occasion?
I work with Mac OS Leopard and Snow Leopard, Windows (XP, Vista, and 7) and Ubuntu 8 and 10; and I agree. Windows is torture. It has improved over the years, but so slowly. Certain things make no sense. Why for data backup and restore do you use two different control panels? Why is this not integrated into one; like every other data recovery program? Unfortunately it seems that Ubuntu takes a lot of it's queues from Windows rather than taking the best of either or inovating the GUI? ...but I digress...
And yes it's a bit of a rant, and no I didn't RTFA or go to bed.
bye.
wha'? where am i?
"Brin hopes that by next year nearly all Googlers will be using Chromebooks."
SSH, gcc, vim, Emacs in javascript?
No thanks.
Honestly yes Chromebooks would work for so many people it isn't funny. Even a small business could use Quickbooks online, and sales force. You average user can use GoogleDocs, Picasso, and so on. But local apps will always be faster than web apps. Yes you will reach good enough for a lot of things but at what cost. What benefit is there to a web based calculator vs a local app?
I will say that AngryBirds in HTML5 is impressive.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Most users I know can not be trusted with managing their own system. Common users switch of UAC, clearing the path for virusses. Common users use outdated licenses of useless AV packages (so they will not get updates) clearing the path for virusses. Common users feel backups are a waste of time or forget about them. Common users install stuff to watch pr0n or puppies. Common users click links in mails from friends, even if it's clear the mail wasn't actually send by said friends. Common users don't know shit about how to use a computer responsibly.
For them a Chromebook could be a good solution.
I am not a common user (although I am not above doing stupid things). I want to be able to configure my system to MY preferences, not some default that makes me cringe in some corners of usage.
As with everything: there is no such thing as a single perfect solution.
Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
Why for data backup and restore do you use two different control panels?
Because you back up every day and restore once a year.
Linux is not worse than Windows in terms of user experience. Perhaps Gnome or KDE are worse than Windows XP desktop (I personally prefer Gnome of the three). But Linux the operating system is not worse than Windows the operating system; most users never really come into contact with either of them, at least, not in a well run corporate environment. However, the point about Chrome is that it is Linux with a Google Chrome like front end. That's not stupid; webOS is a similar concept and a lot of people who try it like it very much. The user experience is defined by the quality of the applications that run in Chrome.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
the moral of the story is, don't hang your penis and tasty balls when there are alligators around.
Google, Apple, Microsoft. All the same.
This strategy won't really work here, the links are all tagged with rel="nofollow", so they don't carry any Google juice and moderation will prevent the great majority of users from even seeing your spam.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
I'd like to see a DBA, or anybody in IT for that matter, run Chrome OS nearly exclusively. That would be torture.
And I don't have to spend any undue amounts of time "managing" my computer. Maybe a new software package here and there, an occasional security update, driver update, etc. It's less effort than the real work I do, that's for sure.
http://spam.blog.com/files/2010/03/all_your_date_are_belong_to_us.jpg
If you're not working for a company of any appreciable size, the amount of work you'd have to do is pretty small anyway.
Yet far too many home users don't want to do even that much work. How much work is it to avoid installing fake antivirus?
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I used to think Windows was torture until I tried to get Ubuntu to recognize my goddamned dual monitor setup.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I've been kicking around the idea for a while that MS ought to be paying us to use their OS, given that they don't seem to have managed to get one out of beta in all the years that I was using them. I'm in the process of backing up my data so that I can leave Windows for good, dual booting only for games until games no longer are supported under XP. It's gotten to the point where, finally, the last few things that I needed Windows for can be done under Linux.
It's not just the lack of consistency, it's the lack of documentation and the inconsistent documentation. The Home version of their OSes will often times contain information meant for the Professional line, with very little to indicate that the Home version lacks the functionality. But, more than that it's rather insulting to the user that they get charged more for the Professional line despite the fact that it actually costs MS less to make than it does to yank those features from Home.
Not to mention the times when things just break, and there's only an obscure error code to hint at the problem.
Please be more aggressive in getting people to us Google Application.
You need more info in management rags, and some good superbowl ads.
Thank you,
A tortured windows user.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
If you read between the lines, this is a play to take away a user's ability to change the system rather than hiding that complexity to make the system easier to use. The difference is, in principle, about who ultimately controls the system. Google are going to roll out an Apple-like OS that locks the users in and make the same claim Apple makes about a better user experience to justify their choices.
So, no lock-in from Microsoft?
Linux is far worse than Windows in terms of user experience (& complexity).
My experience is exactly the opposite. Please give a specific example of what is so difficult with linux?
In terms of installation, Ubuntu blows any version of windows right out of the water. Also, linux setup seems far more logical since it actually reflects the under-lying file system - no putting desktop at the top level etc.
As a linux user, I never worry about malware, and I don't have to worry about BSA extortionist thugs either. In linux, I can actually remove software that I no longer want. With linux I don't have to worry about registering software, or being strong-armed into an unwanted upgrade.
Forcing users to a standardized and completely controlled hardware platform allows for easier software development and less potential configuration issues. It also arbitrarily allows blocking competitors or potential competitors out. And after a while you jack prices way up above production cost and hope you get away with it because your users are bunnies that don't like to think for themselves.
They must be thinking "Apple is doing well with this, let's try it too!".
Google, if your motto is "Don't be evil", you're doing it wrong. At least Microsoft didn't try to control your hardware.
Ubuntu takes a lot of it's queues from
My god...
It's easy to criticize the complexity of Windows, OSX, and Linux machines when you are pushing a product with very few features.
Guess he never used^H^H^H^Howned an Acer before. After my laptop underwent half a year of destruction^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hrepairs, the repair note said they "reattached the cooling block to the video card". They cleverly had removed it during the first repair. No wonder my laptop died every time within 24 hours after I got it back. After the last repair, they had also put a scratch on my screen, and when I reported it, they said there wasn't a single 15" tft panel left in Europe. I would have to wait for months to have it fixed. One colleague had similar problems. After hearing what happend to our laptops, a second colleague literally ducttaped the disintegrating body of his Acer laptop together instead of sending it in for repair, even though it was still under warranty.
This is a re-run of the old "you don't need a full-blown PC on your desk, you can make do with a dumb terminal" meme that was going around when I was at University. (Scary bit is that's ten years ago now).
The argument then was that networks were fast enough that you could use a bunch of dumb terminals (cheaper than Windows PCs) and save much of the messing around with things like domains and (then quite new) Active Directory.
IIRC, it wasn't that great a solution because instead of hiring a half a dozen support monkeys, you had to hire a couple of server gurus who really knew their stuff and were considerably more expensive to hire - and even then there were all sorts of caveats that didn't exist in the "PC on desk" paradigm. ISTR printing was a big one.
I don't really see that these arguments have been entirely eliminated. They've been greatly reduced by the advent of AJAX-driven SaaS applications, pervasive wireless and 3G data dongles, but I wonder if that's enough.
Chrome will rely heavily on the cloud, I read.
No, thanks! Realy Google, don't bother.
But kudos to Brin - he earned me my first +5 post on /. With his traumatic experiences during his long life in totalitarian state between the age of 0 and 4.
"With Microsoft, and other operating system vendors, I think the complexity of managing your computer is really torturing users..."
Yeah right, guess who is "another operating system vendor" now.
"Chromebooks are a new model that doesn't put the burden of managing the computer on yourself."
Most Windows users are already "not managing their computers themselves". SCNR
--Every year or so I wipe the drive with a fresh XP-CD install, and need to reinstall my favorite programs, but that would be true of any OS, whether it's Mac, Lubuntu, or Chrome. Actually, I've had a Fedora Core Server I need to switch over to Ubuntu. Still haven't gotten around to it. It's been running flawlessly for years. Why would you need to wipe and reload the OS?
also, Google, WTG aspect ratio, with your ad text running right out of the billboard frame...
Not really a good point. You have been using backup for years, you know where it is. Now you need to restore for the first time. The first place you are going to look is the same place that you created the backups. Thats where the restore functionality should be.
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
You're being tortured, you just don't know it.
Actually, Sergey is a bit behind the times, linguistically. He should have said that Windows is conducting enhanced interrogations on users.
Just because you sold your soul to the devil that needn't make you a teetotaler. --The Devil and Daniel Webster
I'm sticking with Bill Gates all the way. Windows is not flawed. My systems never crash. and I would rather do my own system maintenance than relay on some other company, in particular a search engine co, that would most likely sell my info off to make coin. And I highly doubt that corporate America would use it since banks don't even use Apple because they are not secure (and highly effected my magnets still too).
I'd like to be shown how to use an IDE on a Chrome netbook. And don't mention online editors, please.
Until then, I'll keep Windows and Linux.
90% of the world MUST be masochists.
But seriously, until someone offers a better, cheaper, and more useful OS than Windows, people will use Windows.
What do you mean you can't install and configure Linux? What do you mean you don't have $1200 to drop on an Apple macbook?
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
I think that there are a lot of jobs that we do on a PC whether that be Windows, Linux or MacOs that we can avoid on the chrome OS.
1) Updating Applications
2) Reinstall
3) Syncing files across multiple computers
4) backing up
5) De-fragging and cleaning HD
6) updating antivirus
These are jobs that we all do or should do that has come as second nature to us now. Chrome OS is a great Idea that is a little ahead of its time as for it to work well there is a need for faster broadband all round and more complete web apps. but 10 years form now we will look back and think how we coped without the cloud as we look back 10 years ago and think how did we cope with no Internet. The Cloud is coming and there is no avoiding it.
I'm responding from an airport lounge after two weeks in a different country with no permanent office. I do this every three to four weeks. Any more questions?
I've already modded so I'll make my comments as AC.
Windows 7 sucks, plain and simple. What used to be a breeze in nearly every other Microsoft OS is now, just as Brin says, a torture. Want to add printer? Silly user, you don't go to printers, you have to go to ANOTHER control panel, find the server you're looking for, right-click that server (there is no link for adding a printer), select add printer then, and only then, can you begin the process of adding a printer.
Want to change the path of where your My Documents goes? You can't change the My Documents directory, you have to go to the user's account, pick the correct documents path, change that path, save the changes, then remove the second entry for document locations.
In every aspect so far, it takes twice as long to do something in 7 than it did in XP, 2K or even 98. Twice. As. Long.
Things are hidden. You cannot, under any circumstance, see every piece of software installed on your system in one location. You have to go to multiple locations and hope you find what you are looking for.
Want to open a program? Now everything is in a flat field design instead of being readily available. You have to constantly scroll up and down to find what you are looking for.
What I've said isn't new. These issues have been brought up since day one when 7 came out. It's a mess. It's almost as if Microsoft decided to deliberately make things harder to find and do things.
Captcha: abused. How appropriate.
If Google's 4000 Windows users are tortured by their computers, Google should hire some experienced Windows admins.
At my job, we use Active directory policies to keep users from having to admin their local workstation - in fact, we we restrict them from many admin tasks through AD policies.
How do you disable USB storage devices on thousands of Ubuntu (or Chrome) desktops because you don't want your sensitive documents walking out on portable storage devices? And then how do you easily enable it again just for your research department because they have a business need for external storage?
Note that I'm a hard-core linux geek, I run only Linux at home (and on my phone), but I realize that many of the applications my business users want to run don't run on Linux. Office is the biggest one - not everyone *needs* Office, but some people need it to run various macro packages (either self-developed or purchased)... and once we start giving Office to some departments (i.e. finance, busdev, etc), it's easier to give it to everyone for consistency. Plus any new employee we hire will already know how to use MS Office.
Really? Start examining your bloated winsxs folder. Mine is now at 10GB and the windows folder has ballooned to over 20GB. It truly is a POS OS built upon a foundation of legacy crap.
I get the feeling that some of us aren't clear on exactly what he meant by "managing" our computers. So here's my take. . .
* installing programs
* launching and closing programs
* figuring out where to store files
* finding files
And that's without even getting into stuff like antivirus or keeping backups, managing user accounts, etc. I suspect his real complaint is about things so basic that most of us don't even think about, because that's the way computers have always worked. It's the whole applications-and-files model that he's going after.
Hi all. Where's my Compiler & distributed revision control? (GCC, GIT), Why can't I rewind a Google Doc? Where's my local LAMP stack? Postgresql? SQLite? Code folding and syntax highlighting in Google docs? Not there? B-But, it's running on top of GNU/Linux. I know it's using some of this underneath, why can't I access it within ChromeOS? This hurts, it's the most limited OS I've ever seen short of on a dumb "smart phone".
No thanks, I've already got all of the benefits of Google's model of cloud storage... I'll keep using my traditional model of robust "cloud" storage: An editor with auto-save enabled, editing files in a local GIT repo, with a cron job doing git commit & git push every 5 minutes or so. Note: that remote repo -- it's part of my private cloud; I also have a cron job that creates a daily private bittorrent of my media collection -- my other PCs rsync the torrent & use BT to distributively sync the media folders I've selected them to store. Bonus, when I'm offline I still have access to all the important data, and some of whatever entertainment data I'm liking right now.
Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > Backup Status and Configuration.
Backup and restore, all in one simple Wizard driven UI.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
Really? This passes for a story, this is a blatant ad.
I feel no torture as I write this from my Windows box.
Thats because your a masochist and like the torturez!
I've had Windows XP for almost ten years now, and I don't have to "manage" anything. Every year or so I wipe the drive with a fresh XP-CD install, and need to reinstall my favorite programs, but that would be true of any OS, whether it's Mac, Lubuntu, or Chrome.
Seriously? Do you really need to?
I've got a Windows 2000 install that's still going strong at 10 years old, and a couple of XP installs well over 5 years old. We even have a couple of Linux systems that have been running continuously longer than you keep Windows XP around - we only had to restart them during a UPS replacement. The Mac OSes only get upgrades (which counts as an install, I guess) when The Steve unveils a new version, so the system OS install I'm using right now is however old 10.6 is (about a year and a half). I have an install of OS X 10.5 on a PPC Mac at home that is still working just fine after 5 years.
So, this begs the question, what are you doing to screw up your XP installs in a year?
Even my boss, the resident malware catcher (seriously, I think he actively tries to get malware on his system) is using a three year old install of XP.
I think you'd be safe to extend your reinstall interval.
Putting moderation advice in your
Can someone please just start thinking for me? Perhaps just directly inject Facebook, Twitter, and Angry Birds directly into my stream of consciousness.
I don't want to point, click, cut, or paste ever again.
I'm responding from an airport lounge after two weeks in a different country with no permanent office. I do this every three to four weeks. Any more questions?
I was referring to the apples to oranges argument of desktops to laptops that this article seems to make. I understand that laptops are portable computers.
I need Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Access and Visio. The first 3 are probably 95% of the 75% of the business community being referenced. Yes, there are OpenSource compatible equivalents for Word and Excel. There are rudimentary equivalent for Access (Base, Wavemake, Kexi, Glom) but none will import an Access DB directly so transition will be difficult for the enterprise. There is also not treal USEABLE equivalent to Visio. The closest equivalent wouldprobably be either "Open Office Draw" or DIA http://dia-installer.de/index.html.en and there are others (StarUML, ArgoUML, Kivio) however it is not Visio .vsd format compatible for import/export so transition will be problematic and none of the style/templates are going to work so it will be starting from scratch. You would first need to convert everything to UML.br
Could they convert? Yes. Is it EASY to convcert? No. Is it cost prohibitive to convert? For a small company with a TB of data, no. For an enterprise class customer with a few PB (petabyte) of MS Office application documents, it will be incredibly expensive to convert from an application that they get 70-80% discount on enterprise class licenses and 15 years of historical data that would require conversion. This is the FUD presented to the likes of Ford, GM, Chrysler, Boeing, the Government, etc, al the really BIG companies when this discussion arises.
The holy war quickly devolves into a legacy conversion discussion.
Armaments, 2-9-21 And Saint Attila raised the hand grenade up on high, saying, 'O Lord, bless this Thy hand grenade' N
Why for data backup and restore do you use two different control panels?
They are in the one "Backup and Restore Center" in Vista. I found that by pressing the Windows key and typing "backup". Easy. (Actually, I didn't need to type more than "b" before I saw the option on the start menu.)
I don't have access to an XP system at the moment to test it. I guess you were referring to that version.
Google vs. Windows?
/. rep does more for the site than your stupid clicks.
Facebook vs. Google?
Since when did Slashdot become a posting for second-rate articles that are all FUD and gossip mongering when there are actually a whole lot more interesting and thought-engaging articles out there?
Slashdot eds please focus on posting real news again and leave the drivel aside. You are not digg.com and the
Being able to install whichever piece of hardware I want, to run whichever program or utility I want, and to enjoy whichever content I want, and to do all this offline, is a daily torture.
We Slashdot nerds are not "most people", but before we can recommend/install computers to/for others, we need to be familiar and confident about them. I'm a PC person, I have a hard time recommending Macs, even though (or because ?) my brother is a Mac person. But I think I'd have a harder time recommending Chromebooks. The "one hardware fits all, Javascript fits all, forced OS updates, off-line as a second thought, your info are belong to us" jive I'm getting makes me very cautious.
I'd love for MS to do a better job at being affordable ($200+ to get RDP server ? really ???) and reliable (why won't 7x64 SP1 install on one of my 3 PCs, even though it has the same MB as the others ?). I think they're doing an OK job at ergonomics (even more so after trying Ubuntu 10.4) and features... at least, they're quick to copy whatever others come up with. And I love the freedom to build my PCs, to install and watch/read/listen to whatever I want. And to unplug from the net, and to actually own my data.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
"Chromebooks are a new model that doesn't put the burden of managing the computer on yourself."
Really?
What about thin clients?
And before that, what about X terminals?
There is nothing new here. It is still a good idea to some extent: for applications that can always be connected when they need to be. But there is no new concept here. The only things that are new are that (1) the client has become immeasurably more complex and heavyweight (a browser versus a terminal), with very little additional value over what X terminals offered; and (2) there is now an Internet in place so that connecting to the server is easier when it is beyond the local LAN.
It's torturing us? Has Sergey been spying on us again?
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Seriously and being nice, why dont you backup your XP image after you install setup and update all updates.
Then you have a clean reference point.
But if you have a job, just max your ram out too. Ohh and if your CPU is 64bit, why are you wasting time on 32bit XP, go win7-64 and benefit.
My linux is on going updated for last 8 years, never doing a fresh install.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
So many posts, including TFA, absolutely stink of singleminded fanboyism.
ALL operating systems CAN be torture, but whether any of the big three systems ARE really just depends on your skill level with that OS.
For example, I have used DOS and Windows my entire life and using a *nix OS is "torture" because I don't know where anything is or how to do anything (but I'm sure it's really quite nice when you get used to it.)
cygwin with Vista is really all I need. Cygwin has come a long way. It creates a perfect Linux environment when I need it.
Google is heading down hill. They need more peer review, less authoritarianism (probably spelled wrong). I am waiting for the next big thing after Google.
My son has a chrome computer. Its very heavy, lots of limitations.
Help us remove stupid speeding tickets
Pro: It seems google is setting its self up to potentially take a huge portion of the bussiness computing market. If this model is successful companies would not need as robust of an IT department and it drives hardware budget expenditures WAY down for enterprise solutions. Microsoft could be in trouble unless there are some "drastic" changes with windows 8 ( they assure us there are... namely supposely it can run on ARM archetecture which means it may be even more lightweight than chrome as it could even potentially run on your cellular device). /DAC[Discretionary/ etc...) it could be problematic handling shared resources depending on the overhead needed. If RSA can be hacked and PII stolen, Google can easily be. And a company with PII on thier information structure could find themselves with a lawsuit.
Con: Information Assurance and security. The ability for a company to manage thier own information and security is huge. There hasn't been a great proof of concept to show that google can do so more safely, or ensure that they themselves would not fall prey to attacks, or thier own users mishandling information. Also depending on the permission model (MAC[Mandatory Access Controls]
Really? This passes for a story, this is a blatant ad.
I feel no torture as I write this from my Windows box.
You're numb.
1
I use gmail, and the interface sucks. If this is an example of google's approach to user interface engineering and design, then chrome won't work any better then windows.
another example is that googles main event - the search engine - sucks; most people don't realize that cause there is no std or alternative to guage google against. For windows, and esp office, we have alternatives - MacOS, wordperfect for you oldtimers, etc, so people have some standard by which to guage MS
PS: if you don't realize that googles search sucks, I would politely suggest that you need to go back and do some studying.... 2)
how long before google the cutting edge tech company becomes the borg, the soul suckingn marketing driven corporation that can't be trusted ? IMHO, this has already happened, but wait till they kill MS Office and become a monopoly with YOUR data on their servers.
Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > Backup Status and Configuration.
A bit too long/deep, no?
In Soviet Russia Torture Googles YOU! No, wait, that isn't it... Maybe - In Soviet Russia Google Tortures YOU!
I can condense your 2 paragraphs into one sentence: "I am not their target audience."
It truly is a POS OS built upon a foundation of legacy crap.
Indeed. Microsoft's solution to 'DLL Hell' is to keep a copy of every possible version of every DLL, no matter how broken or insecure it may be... and if the winsxs tree gets screwed up somehow there's no way to fix it.
Ultimately the number of workarounds required to keep crappy old software running exceeds the comprehension ability of the human mind and then the whole thing collapses into a steaming heap of crap.
ITT: Yet another instance of /.ers who can't see past their own geekdom to realize how "the others" live.
So that's where the employees waste their 20% time. ;)
Didn't some CEO say that a few years ago? Anyone remember what became of his company?
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
No one seems to be talking about data caps that most ISP's are introducing. If all the data is in the cloud all the time then I am not sure what impact it would have on the data caps.
...I'm pretty sure Linux ain't the cure.
don't have access to an XP system at the moment to test it. I guess you were referring to that version.
I have access to an XP system:
When you go to Start -> All Programs -> Accessories -> System Tools -> Backup, it brings up a wizard... and the second page has radio buttons labeled "Back up files and settings" and "Restore files and settings" so I have no idea what the GP is talking about.
In case you're wondering, the first page of the wizard basically asks you if you want to use the wizard or go to Advanced mode.
GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
I'm sure Sergey would love to see Crome laptops take off. That way he can charge $20 a month for anyone who wants to use "their" computer.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Must be 'Stockholm Syndrome' ;-)
love is just extroverted narcissism
Slashdotters WANT to manage their own computers. I'd bet a large percentage of slashdotters build their own machines from loose parts lying around in their basements. This is not the audience these remarks will get traction with.
IT managers with their budgets under severe pressure want a low cost to manage platform to deliver basic business applications to their users - sales, accounting, clerical, etc. using web apps, word processing, email, Excel, etc. This is where a platform like Sergy is talking about would gather interest.
I hate to say it, but Ballmer was right developers, developers, developers. The fact of the matter is that most line of business appliocations are Windows executables. That is changing somewhat in that we are seeing web interfaces added by many vendors, but the same vendors are also adding AD integrated authentication. If other OSs hit a critical mass, there will also be a need for centralized management of patches and anti-virus etc. Imagine if Linux or another OS had enough of an installed base to be a target. Users would still be clicking on trojans and entering the root password when requested.
Then you must be doing it wrong. I have all my most used programs on the Taskbar, and when I need to open a program, I press the windows key, type a simple keyword and hit enter and I'm ready to roll.
I just love the 1980s nostalgia easter eggs that Microsoft has hidden in Windows 7. Like having to remember program names and type them in order to start them. It brings back such fond memories of DOS and pre-GUI Unix.
Alternatively maybe they've replaced all the old programmers who remember what a pain in the ass that was with new ones who think 'wow, dude, I could add an option to, you know, type the name of a program to start it! Then you wouldn't have to hunt through this huge list of crap to find it because we screwed with the menus to make finding programs easier!'
I doubt 75% of business employees could ever move to anything other than Windows, especially Google applications. Their contacts just isn't good enough at all. In addition Google Docs Presentation is horrible and full of bugs.
If a company wants to complete in the business space against Microsoft the following could have to be done:
Calendar sync and sharing with the ability to accept and send invitations (doesn't exist at least with Exchange support)
Contacts that you can import and define the mappings for each column (Google's is really buggy)
Document creation (OpenOffice does okay most of the time except with some MS Word docs, Google Docs lacks many features such as showing you margins, shared document support would be nice)
SpreadSheet (OpenOffice covers this well; Google Docs is slow and lacks decent copy & paste)
PowerPoint (both OpenOffice and Google Docs have numerous bugs and don't support importing existing .ppt very well)
Of course getting a business IT department on board takes effort to. A simplified central deployment for installs and updates would go a long way.
With Zeus preloaded? :D
But usually they require lessons first.
Complex machines require training - make it too easy for the untrained and/or idiots and it'll either lose functionality or become a PITA for people who do know what they're doing. I don't want a car with a max speed of 20mph that flashes a red light and does its horn if I get within 6 foot of a kerb , and nor do I want a computer that hand holds me all the time.
can we start pulling our users out of Windows?
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
I'm a chip designer. While I've always been very good at software, I prefer hardware, and as I have moved more and more in that direction, I have come to feel that software stuff is mostly bullshit. Software is the stuff you write to give high level direction to the hardware. So why is everyone doing such a crap job of it? Ok, I've written GUI-based apps, plenty, and it's not easy to make a really intuitive interface. But I still can't see how CEOs of software companies like Microsoft can look at themselves in the mirror. They spend billions of dollars developing software that is absolutely horrid at automating the most basic of tasks. Computers are fantastic at fast, repetitive tasks. Making your PC connect to wireless reliably is one such task. So why can't they make it work right 100% of the time? I should never ever have to type in something that the computer can look up for itself. I should never have to do maintenance that's obvious. There are many unexpected things that happen as a result of bugs (these are unintentional) and hardware failure (shit happens). These are the times when someone has to look under the hood, because the result is largely unanticipated. This is reasonable. However, if there is something in a textbook that you can teach to someone, then it's KNOWN, and it should damn well be automated. If you can make a human procedure for it, you can make a software procedure for it. (And I'm talking about simple stuff, not computer vision or SPAM detection, although SPAM detection is automated and quite good. Irony?)
Not EVERY action can be anticipated, otherwise there would be no need for user interfaces at all. It's the things that have to be done the same way every time for everyone that should be automated. Interestingly, some software is trying to be smart and anticipate. Like automatic text substitution and spellchecking. Those don't always work right, but at least they're trying, and they're getting better at it. Similiarly, there's the way browser URL bars and search bars try to anticipate what you're trying to type and give you suggestions based on what others have done. Those are awesome (pun intended).
I actually use the command line a lot. For instance, I compile stuff using gcc. That's me doing development, not admining the machine. I also sometimes do stuff using bash that could be done using Finder (yes, I use a Mac, but I have Windows in a VM, and I have a Linux server at home). Again, that's me doing something I want to do with my files. But for the most part, you should just be able to turn your computer on, and have it get the hell out of the way of what you want to do. Want to type email? You select the Mail app, click the Compose button, and off you go. Aside from perhaps a few security measures (some of which are also lazy bullshit in the way they're designed), nothing should get in the way of that action.
Now, some of you out there like mucking about with the innards of their operating system. And that's cool for you. I know about this stuff do, and I do it better than most software engineers or CS grads. (Indeed, someone must know this, so that someone can write the OS and program the automated procedures.) But for MOST people, including those of us who have Ph.D.s in Computer Science, we have OTHER WORK TO DO. And this software bullshit (or bullshit software) is just SLOWING US DOWN.
Torture isn't a word to use in conjunction with software. Torture is a word to use in conjunction with Chinese dissidents and water boarding. Somebody needs to separate tedious little commercial issues from matters of real importance.
Mmm. On Windows 7 you can write "backup" in the search box and it will suggest "Backup and restore". So your it seems that your concern has been taken care of.
It is what it is.
Has Mr. Sergey Brin ever used Android?
Reminds me more of Windows a few years back than Windows does today.
He's exaggerating to sell a product, of course, but there is some nuggets of truth to the current computing set-up.
Look at how the iPad works compared to any other operating system. It works out of the box, if you use it in the default configuration you get a good experience, finding software, installing it, updating it and un-installing it is a dead simple and consistent process, you aren't asked questions that the majority of people don't give a toss about (For example, which folder to you want to install the program to? Do you want complete, custom or minimal installs?) and concepts of closing vs minimising, drag and drop and single vs double click are swept away for something which is easier to understand.
Yes, we know that geeks hate iPad's for all the usual reasons - but the product has sold enough to show that the non-geeks are happy to pay several hundreds of pounds/dollars/etc to get something that works in that way and has those limitations.
In contrast, when a family member gets a new PC, I have to remove all the junk that's installed, change a number of insane default settings, install a virus checker and do a number of other bits and pieces which - whilst not rocket science - I really shouldn't have to do.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
You can access it. You "jailbreak" the chromebook by flipping a small, well documented switch, hit a magical key combo, and you have root. Congratulations, you can do all of the things you mentioned.
Google copied their FUD Department from the Microsoft model. Windows never tortured me. Very reliable OS. I like Windows! I also like Linux almost as much except for games ... sigh. I like controlling and building my own computer, thank you. Please Google, go FUD somewhere else.
This is by far and wide the dumbest thing I've ever heard someone at google say.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
EOM
I just love the 1980s nostalgia easter eggs that Microsoft has hidden in Windows 7. Like having to remember program names and type them in order to start them. It brings back such fond memories of DOS and pre-GUI Unix.
I know. It's almost as much trouble as having to remember words before I can use them. Why can't I just communicate with a series of points and clicks?
In reality, it's a lot easier to remember a word than a location. I may lose my pen a half dozen times a day. I've never forgotten what it is called.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I'd rather take my chances with the torture than stalking.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
I am sure Google would love to manage our computers...plenty of tasty tidbits to be harvested.
>>>"Sergey Brin thinks managing your own computer is 'torture'."
I think Sergey Brin is just off his rocker. I've had Windows XP for almost ten years now, and I don't have to "manage" anything. Every year or so I wipe the drive with a fresh XP-CD install, and need to reinstall my favorite programs, but that would be true of any OS, whether it's Mac, Lubuntu, or Chrome. Otherwise WinXP just works. Like my car. Or my microwave*. Or my stereo.
* * The lightbulb burned out, but it still works after 20 years.
My older laptop has had ubuntu since 2005, but I have NEVER needed to wipe my entire system and restart from scratch. And that is despite upgrading the OS every 6 months from breezy badger all the way to natty narval... a total of what, 11 upgrades, many of them with major new functionality.
Having to re-wipe every year is NOT normal. It is a major engineering failure, though I'm not sure who specifically is to blame (microsoft? kernel drivers? application developers?).
you need to use the system in the same way as your users - back when I worked for Telecom Gold we even locked our terminals down to the dial up speeds - so that when we developed systems we would see what and end user would see.
Google seem to have a franking death wish.
PC Gaming, is why some still use a MS os, Mac blows, Linux blows, chromey little netbook, laptop blows,,,for pc gaming...
Dogfood tag made me laugh.
Time for lunch.
I write this from my dual boot Windows and Linux. I guess they should specify which partition as they both are difficult to deal with in their own respects (and uniquely).
Frustrating-stupid-feature-I-DONT-WANT vs. where-is-that-damn-driver-dept.
Give the power to the user to chose and learn from their own mistakes, I know I have!
We manage almost a thousand desktops and forty servers. I'd be leery of switching any of our users to Chrome because of the loss of top down control. Active Directory for logins, etc.
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
No thanks, I've already got all of the benefits of Google's model of cloud storage... I'll keep using my traditional model of robust "cloud" storage: An editor with auto-save enabled, editing files in a local GIT repo, with a cron job doing git commit & git push every 5 minutes or so. Note: that remote repo -- it's part of my private cloud; I also have a cron job that creates a daily private bittorrent of my media collection -- my other PCs rsync the torrent & use BT to distributively sync the media folders I've selected them to store. Bonus, when I'm offline I still have access to all the important data, and some of whatever entertainment data I'm liking right now.
Wow, hat off to you... though I am not sure if it is for cleverness or for unneeded complexity. I've just set up encfs-over-dropbox synching between my PCs (so dropbox only sees encrypted versions of my files) and I thought I was doing it complicated...
Which is "We use Linux because we are anti-Microsoft zealots."
That is really the truth of the matter. Google does not like MS at all. I'm not saying that isn't legit, but it is the reason behind them using Linux to the extent they do. They have some people using Windows, of course, if for no other reason than they need to develop products for it.
The whole "Torturing users," or "Too hard to manage," is just a BSscreen.
They did something *huge* with their ChromeBook: it auto-detects if the OS has been tampered with and can re-install itself from scratch, using a chain of trust.
The lowest layer is carved on a non-writeable chip/memory that can re-image the base kernel. From there a complete chain of trust takes place and unless an attacker will have the private Google cryptographic keys, it's "good game viruses".
In addition to that, it's a pretty hardened Linux version they have there: all processes are apparently chroot'ed, it's "sandbox in a sandbox", /root/ is read-only, etc. And yet *should* an exploit "root" ChromeBook, it wouldn't survive a reboot. Better than that: once the exploit has been found, Google (and only them) can release an official (cryptographically signed) patch that would render the exploit moot. If they've done their chain of trust correctly, it's foolproof.
It may not be for "power users" but for joe-sixpack and its grandma it's quite interesting: GMail, Google Docs, YouTube, FaceBook, eBay and... Google the search engine. He's saying that 75% of enterprise users could work with a ChromeBook. I think there's 95%+ of the home users who would be totally happy with a computer they don't need an anti-virus for.
You're being tortured, you just don't know it.
Actually, Sergey is a bit behind the times, linguistically. He should have said that Windows is conducting enhanced interrogations on users.
Obviously, he shouldn't say that, because that's what Google's doing! (With targeted ad sales and all.)
(T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
Crimeware for Mac OS X has come out. See the comment that x*yy*x posted while you were typing up yours.
I agree. Moreover, in what way is managing a Windows machine a torture as compared to a Mac or a Linux machine? They all have the same problems that need to be managed.
Windows enterprise management tools are one of the things that make it attractive to companies. Here we are a multi-platform shop, being a research university. We support Windows, Linux, Solairs (though to a very limited extent these days), and are adding OS-X. Of all of them, Windows has by far the easiest enterprise management and it has taken some serious hackery to make some of them work well (like Linux) and some expensive software for others (like OS-X).
I think it is a fact that many Linux geeks under appreciate because they've never dealt with it. They run their own little Linux setup of 2 or 3 systems at home, and maybe look after a handful of servers. They've no need for large scale management tools and so don't see the value. They don't realize how their methods for handling things would not scale well to thousands of users and systems.
Windows handles that real well and that is part of why many companies like it.
A bit too long/deep, no?
That's a question no female would need to hear from you.
And so the google takeover begins. GGWP WORLD.
Nothing to see here.
"But Chrome OS, by putting most of a user's applications and data on the Web with some offline capabilities... "
In the wake of the PSN/SOE hack (antiquity of security noted), wouldn't this be a huge red flag for ANY business?
"In tonight's news, hackers managed to infiltrate Google's network and copied hundreds of databases. Some of these databases are already showing up on Wikileaks."
--
"Simmons, where's our payroll report?"
"Sorry sir, but the Google network is still down from the hacker attack."
"That was two weeks ago!"
"Yes sir, they're still rebuilding their security systems. No ETA yet on when the network will be back up."
I recently came to the following two realizations.
1. No matter how powerful your hardware gets, the software industry will just produce less efficient products that make that Core 2 Duo or Phenom 2 feel like a 386. Case in point: Vista. When I re-install it, it has to reboot at least THREE times and I generally long for my Pentium 133 with Windows 95. Sure, I had to reboot back then to change my IP address, but I still have to reboot when installing some media players or games on a modern system. At least Win95 booted fast.
B. Anybody who thinks they should be in charge of GUI design should NOT be. This goes right along with "anyone who thinks they should be a server admin probably shouldn't". I'm sick of GUIs that were designed by monkeys, where buttons aren't labeled as to what they do. We learned to read and write for a reason, you know? So instead of having a bunch of icons for shutting down, restarting, etc, use my chosen language. Also, stop wasting massive amounts of screen space. There is no legitimate reason your dialogue boxes can't fit on an 800x600 screen. When I have to hide the task bar or drag the whole window to click "ok", I long for my Linux box where I can just hold alt and click/drag the window to expose the buttons quickly.
For the record, I think Windows 95 had an excellent UI.
Sun tried this tack... I don't see anything yet from Google that says they can deliver an office application that competes with anyone, let alone Microsoft
Mike Judge was right. Fast forward 30 years when all but a few will be too dumb to use a computer that requires a setting change or troubleshooting.
the users who are being tortured by Windows are allowing Windows to torture them. They don't learn to use their computer and then complain that it's not working the way they want it to. But don't worry, now Google will control even more of what you see and hear and alleviate even more requirement to understand what the shiny mystery box is doing. Don't learn, just hand over your existence to faceless mega corporations who will look after you. They know what's best so you don't have to. It's ok if you're dribbling over the keyboard in your catatonic state, there's an app for that.
Sounds like someone has Stockholm syndrome.
Sounds like you've put together a system that might be worth cleaning up and putting on freshmeat (or similar) for others to use. I'd be interested anyway. Just a thought, if you have the time.
I am trolling
And 100% of Chrome OS users could be converted to Windows, Linux or Mac.
Last I checked chrome is basically webkit with a google facade. ChromeOS is basically linux with a web browser.
Google is not doing anything difficult or any heavy lifting or standsrds development work in thier own products. They are essentially producing dumb terminals which depend on propritary google central servers to work.
I personally don't see any the value in these schemes to me as an end user.
When there is any Apple news there are all these Apple haters who pop up to say that Apple will make iOS the desktop OS.
Here Google is making a similar move for a computer with a keyboard that they want to use to replace desktops, and... nothing.
But when you use another person's desk, you don't have to ask them what they call a pen.
Semi-funny story. I had an interview with google a while back with me one one side of a table and four of them on the other side. Facing me were four Mac laptops while being quizzed on Linux. So later on I asked what was with all the Macs as I was given the impression Google had its own Linux build.
"They gave us the choice of Linux or Mac when we got here and we figured out pretty quickly the Linux Google distro was really unstable and wasn't letting us get anything done."
For many years I've been thinking that Microsoft should pull an Apple and rewrite the operating system from the ground up, eliminating all the legacy crap. Include XP virtualization (like Win7 Pro does) for the first couple of versions to support old code, and then drop it entirely a couple of versions later. People would certainly complain loudly, but it would be for the better.
hahaha, completely agree with you there.
The amount of data Google must hold on individuals must be unbelievable, especially since they're acquiring companies and technologies which helps them achieve this. e.g. DoubleClick / Analytics (urchin) / Google ads (syndication) / DNS / Chrome / Android / Mail / Maps / StreetView / etc, etc.
Sheesh, if you think about it, especially with their phone, they must know exactly where you are and where you spend your time, not to mention where you work, what your daily habits are, and of course who you're associated with (not just in terms of contact, but based on your movements), etc.
Actually, they pretty much know you better than you probably know yourself - e.g. your real interests.
Google is just trying to make a marketing argument to put some momentum behind their Chromebook. There is no solution which is completely 'torture' free... even an Abacus can be frustrating.
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
He should have said that Windows is conducting enhanced interrogations on users.
"They didn't even ask me any questions..."
Anyone else get the feeling that Google's ChromeOS is now subscribing to a very Apple-like philosophy that things should "just work" without any tweaking needed by the end user? And thus any tweaking functionality will be at best, minimal? Sorry Sergey Brin, that's a giant step backwards. If you choose to go that direction, you'll not have my business for your ChromeOS, ever. I actually enjoy tweaking the hell out of stuff. For example, just took my first real leap into Linux just yesterday. Messed with KDE until I got it looking reminiscient of Windows 7, because I actually quite enjoy its UI.
As a Linux and Mac OS-X user, supporting a large group of RHEL users and XP users I definitely second this fellow.
If we leave aside the Ad Hominum attacks and AstroTurfing lets look at my experience with the three.
The RHEL systems are rock solid and enterprise manageable but have limited functionality that is very fine, stable, and secure for science, LAMP/Java serving, and custom applications. Very configurable and if you have top notch SA's the same can be done with CENTOS or other Linux so the lock in is not as bad as MS. Still some lock in exists because it costs a lot in house to replace and maintain the RH management pieces we need for compliance reasons. Good security with only our SA team having root and occasionally having to beat users for attempting go around our procedures. (Lightly) The security benefits from fair security in the latest distros, a small number of hardened configurations that we deploy, and of course from not being number one on the blackhat agenda.
Downside - We have tons of management and other users that MUST have Project, Visio, etc. Ek is dead right on need for legacy applications. Companies like VMWare may help virtualize our RHEL systems using unix underneath - but they want to run their management pieces on top of Windows. Even document and spreadsheets become problematic as docx types mean we have to upgrade any desktop unix to the latest Office substitutes and still only get 95% compatibility that gets complained about. So other then SA's unix or linux desktops just don't fly. Of course we also need trained unix SA's who generally don't fill in well on the Windows side and they aren't cheap. I will say they are worth it though and generally leverage their numbers to a much larger base of installed computers per SA.
MacOSX - Very usable, solid and configurable underneath. Cheaper to maintain for hardware and AV. We do our mail AV at the edge so the pass through argument doesn't much apply to adding separate AV costs.
Downside- generally not an option as management acceptance and higher initial cost are issues. Popular with admins ( and myself ) but not nearly as secure as we'd like given pawn2own results. ( Apple does seem to be improving there - realizing the yearly embarrassment kills a major Mac OS X selling point. ) However still a great deal better then the Windows desktops for security. Argue among yourselves about the reasons. ( Some will become obvious below )
Finally Windows. We have XP because we are large and the roll out of 7 is endlessly delayed. Various Windows servers as well for AD and other services. Very user friendly - because we have a helpdesk endless deploying tiered updates by night and blasting out images followed by quick restores from backup after problems. Beautiful support of MS's arcane formats and legacy products that are the lifeblood of an army of pointy haired types who keep the enterprise pumping.
MS support of this house o cards is excellent - they know it has to be. Like IBM back in the day - behind the product is an army of FE's and a mountain of documentation that is constantly changing.
Downside: Even our MSCE's don't really understand under the hood. Don't get me wrong they can tune, deploy, and configure but underneath they need canned rules and configurations and host of third party security products. This isn't a put down, frankly they are constantly in school and are heroic keeping the systems running. Also part of this is the management above not committing resources to get 7 out here. Where we have beta'd it, it's a definite improvement. Our XP desktops though are constantly suffering issues when the latest 0-day sweeps through. Part of that is the 'anything runs' on Windows. Yes indeed - Adobe pdf zero days, Flash zero days, backup software zero days, IE zero days, and god know what other new exploits that we constantly rush the AV fixes out for. This is on top of a 'secure' baseline that is always annoying to users - who we don't allow admin to. We enc
Wow, your commit history must look like shit.
Attend meeting - check.
Boot machine - check.
Wait for updates to install - check.
Miss all the meeting bulletpoints - check.
Start typing frantically - check.
Interrupted by vendor tools popping up from systray that are on the damn restore disc and I can't remove ARGH - check.
Random reboot to finish updates - check.
Notepad didn't save before reboot - check.
Lost all work - check.
Windows can bite my ass - check.
Start -> Devices and Printers -> Add a Printer
Maybe you're not actually using Windows 7? Have you made sure your computer is plugged in and turned on?
You've got a better chance of walking to Japan from California than you do of shoe-horning Microsoft out of 80% of their marketshare in our lifetime. Won't happen. Their entire business is built on lock-in... Nobody can just "transition out"--they've built every product for maximum lock-in and maximum cash-flow, and are building new products that you have to pay for in perpetuity.
This may yet be their undoing... Open Office has been "ready for prime time" for a few years and yet we rarely encounter anybody using it or willing to use it. I propose it all the time, but include pricing for MS Office in all proposals that include Open Office because it's the first thing clients want to know--EVEN IF THEY SIGN OFF ON OPEN OFFICE--is "Where's my Microsoft Office? My Outlook?"
Until you break that mental block, it's a pointless exercise.
Who did what now?
My first thought when I saw this was wondering what Google's toolset plan was.
But by next year, Brin hopes the vast majority of Googlers will be doing their work on Chrome OS.
I would imagine there's a lot of engineering and development work at Google - are they going to be able to do what they do via Chromebooks? Does that mean there's development full-fledged tools, IDEs, VMs (maybe?) currently working within the Chrome OS framework? If so, that would be incredible.
I like your point that computer illiteracy should be no more acceptable than normal illiteracy. It made me think: why in this day and age do we still have computer illiterate people, let alone illiterate people in our culture?
The previous poster had a good point too in that he (and I) have witnessed anecdotal evidence of people who cannot handle Windows. I too have seen people dump everything straight to their desktop instead of employing folder classifications, never ever shut their computer off and then complain about how slow it's working (if it's not the malware they've racked up, it's that they never allow their computer to shut down and clear the RAM), etc. I've seen these same emotional attitudes in people with functional illiteracy: they know just enough to get by and that's about it. They don't read unless they have to, nor do they take any steps to fix the issue.
So, what if computer illiteracy isn't so much a knowledge issue as an emotional/psychological issue? TWhat if you can't reason someone into becoming literate? What if they refuse because they either don't want to learn, or don't have the capacity/desire to learn? For these people (and there's a few in my finance department), I'd say ChromeOS with its visual apps and "push-the-button" design is perfect. They're never going to improve their literacy unless a gun's aimed at them, so why try to fight it?
Just a thought for pondering
Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
Actually, Base does a good job with Access DB files. The other day someone sent an MDB to a co-worker and it was the only way we could open it (because our standard Office install doesn't include Access.)
Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
A developer using a Mac is like a man owning a cat. Sure you can, but what's the point?
Yeah, an obscure error code such as 0x80000af, which when dropped into Google will generally get you to the MSKB article saying "for that error, do this to fix."
I'll take that over OSX's General Error -4 or at the very best iTunes error: -4. Or Linux's silent crash, go to log file and piece together what happened, or Application Segfault with no other easily identifiable information.
Obviously, the OSX and Linux errors aren't always that bad, but neither are the Windows errors. But give me a unique hex error number over a generic two or three digit error code on OSX any day.
Keep on knockin'
https://robbiecrash.me
The problem is the "legacy crap" is what ties their customers to them. Supporting legacy crap is their key feature.
I read your post with a Texas cowboy accent. I'm not sure why, but it just seemed right.
a dumb "smart phone".
Yeah, my first thought was it is a dumbbook.
I think most people who feel tortured by Windows have bought an iPad, or saved up for a Mac, or switched to Linux, or modified their Windows installation to be usable by now. But I could very well be wrong.
Make all that automated and/or easy enough for a the average user to use while he writes his wannabe novel and you could make a mint. While I'm a true believer in free tools, charging for a baby-gloves front end seems perfectly fine to me.
I'm amazed at how many dumb user interface decisions and annoyances that have been around for years that Microsoft still hasn't fixed. Here's a small list: 1) Vista and Windows 7 adds new icons to the desktop in two different places arbitrarily, either at the top left or the bottom right of the list. 2) Date Modified is not a default sorting option for a lot of folders. Instead, users have to scroll through a list of HUNDREDS of useless options to find it in order to sort by the damn date the file was modified 3) Security and operating system updates that don't specifically tell the user what was fixed at all. 4) Frequently used options are absolutely buried in the control panel. I think most of the problems comes from new features in Windows being built directly on top of stuff from Windows XP and Windows NT. I think it's time to wipe things clean.
The only thing I don't like about Windows is how scatter-brained it is. It is very clearly corporate designed by committee with no final "vision" in mind like Mac OS X. Other than that, what's so torturous about it? The fact that pretty much all software and hardware run on it with no issue?
As for Chromium, we'll see. iOS and Android have proven that new OSes can take off pretty quick as long as there's good app support (Angry Birds.) Whether or not that model will work on a big, clunky laptop is very questionable. Especially when it ventures into the spooky, dark forest of hardware support. Which from what I've read so far, is going to be absolutely pathetic. To the point of being practically unusable.
Needs a re-install every year is part of "just works"
My ten-year-old XP install, still running happily on its original MB and cloned to several VMs, just works.
Da Blog
"Brin Laden attacks Windows!" would have been a better title and goes well with the torture part too ;-)
Well said! I believe in giving the user the power of choice. I really pity the business who think google will be their cheap solution... talk about the day google goes through some outage / attack!
Except that we have rather gotten used to it. Where were you all these years. the real torture was back in windows 95-98 times. oh the humanity ....
Read radical news here
It's common to throw out a ringer when you're trying to steal business. Keep em' busy not noticing your real intent. That's your private information.
Google:
Ubuntu should be sufficient enough that they don't need to roll their own. See the truth people. That they use MacOS is the biggest slap in the face of Free Software.
Microsoft:
It's obvious they're trying to sell you service and product in short servings.
Apple:
Pink Floyd references here. Brick in the wall, just that the wall is silver and scraped up. Eat your pudding or you can't have any meat.
People want constant change. But they want to decide when and how much.
Yeah, I remember when things weren't advanced enough to allow me to organize anything the way that I wanted. I had to settle for someone else's idea of what organized meant, which was never quite adequate for the weird way that I live my life -- you know, differently from the mean-average lay-person.
Then, I finally got the chance to organize my own things my way. The tools reached the point where if I wanted to structure my life according to my needs, I could do just that. And when I had, and things weren't quite right, I could make minor adjustments. And when I changed what I was doing, I could completely rearrange my organizational structures to meet my new needs. And it was good.
Now, it's great to hear that I can go back to someone else's idea of organized. I can't wait to see how my life is improved by someone else's all-purpose, one-size-fits-all general way of organizing my business. I'm sure it'll be way better than anything I've designed and tailored specifically to my business of 15 years, especially without asking me anything.
Seriously, it sounds like the perfect tool for children, to get them started on a non-random path, before they learn to manipulate their own environments. I've already grown up, thank you. I'll take control over pre-determined convenience. Thank you.
Charles Dickens wrote a book called "High Hopes".
If you have an inclination to stabilise your desktop for at least 3 to 5 years instead of changing OS, version etc, there is no question that noOS tortures the user.
Also, lets look at the proposed commercial model. With everything on the cloud, all we have to do is wait for the first "cloud burst" to realise the problems in tying up to a lease rent for 3 years with no local backup.
OK
God, dude, are people that dumb, i dont think google hires dumbasses from the rice paddy, where they have only recently in the last 2 years have seen a light bulb let alone a PC or windows.
If you cant use windows, NO HIRE.
Go back to the call center.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Oh good! I haven't used Windows 7 really, I gave up on Windows after the Vista debacle. I use Mac OS and Ubuntu, pretty much exclusively now.
"Don't install software from untrusted sources" takes care of most of them.
How does a software author become trusted?
i can run at least unreal tournament x on chrome os then cos the other os's more than cater to my needs, and the assembly required to program my own environment needs more brain than i have left
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
So how does one both build trust and put food on the table if one's product is not the kind of thing that would need paid enterprise support? Or are they mutually exclusive?
http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2148646&cid=36108668
Drink that in, digest it... because if ALL YOU HAVE, is "downmods" of my posts without computer related/subject related facts backing you, & disproving what I said (which you trollishly down-moderated without said justifications)?
To the troll who modded me down unjustly & ran? I can only say 1 thing in the end:
U truly ' F A I L '
APK
P.S.=> Trolls: They're just "too, Too, TOO EASY" to expose/flush-out, & make look like fools with challenges they can NEVER live up to... lol!
... apk