Sticks and stones may break my bones.. Words (names) may never hurt me?
Altho it may not be just a name. It may be some people striving for things we dont know about. But it is what each individual calls it. If Linus names it GNU/Linux its not an edict passed from the holy lands that you must follow or be slain. And this also has little bearing on anything important. Except people like to argue. And this is the reason of the hour. Get over it please.. Thanks
I seriously almost got angry at the way MS treated this whole entire Business. Of course it does not really matter. Benchmarks are meaningless numbers to begin with. MS will try and make Linux look bad. Just another game high powered Money driven people can play very well with the 'Linux Community' (as if we are a corporation) In the end the better OS wins. It may take a while. And we may have to get MUCH better. But at a point it will become evident that Linux can beat the pants off of NT. It may or may not be able to now. In the future we all know what will be the end result. People will wake up from the stupor of the MS media poisoning and realize that Linux is not so bad. Hopefully that day comes soon.
Just to bring up a nice point that has been covered by a lot of posts here. Benchmarks are IRRELEVANT. They mean little to the true Measure of an Operating Systems capability. Yet, If the community allows them to seem important then what does that really do to us..?
This all seems a little bad for linux in a lot of ways. Ill touch a couple no one else has I dont beleive. Mindcraft is developing Hardware to enhance NT, thats great NT runs faster taking advantage of some cool stuff. ( yes it is cool even if NT uses it ) So instead of saying.. Gee these guys are ripping the Linux community off. Ask yourself, Why has'nt anyone developed hardware that takes advantage of really cool stuff in Linux that NT does not have. Or ask yourself Why does'nt Linux support some of this really cool stuff, Why doesnt someone just start writing the code now instead of complaning about bad publicity. In the end good media or bad media it does not matter... People will go to what is best, easiest, and most cost effective. So all these tests dont mean anything compared to personal experience of individuals's. Sure its coming from important people, butt it also must make you ask why they are trying so hard to do this and How they truly have an edge, its apparent they have some things that Linux does not and everyones all upset about it or else the posts wouldnt be like they are.
Thompson brings up a few interesting points. Saying that windows is unreliable, Something many people know understand and yet still trust? and that Linux IS worse.. That seemed a little harsh. Butt come to think of it. I have tried FreeBSD, and I have tried Linux and I LIVE with NT at work. Often times ive asked my bosses why not Linux, or Why not *nix. The answer is pretty simple since we are a small shop that needs very quick and rapid application development. NT has all the tools and can stay running long enough to make the money, The interface saves time mostly in learning curve I would imagine. Linux perhaps needs to and already has taken note of this. Thompson think slinux is unreliable. And from his perspective it is a chaotic world of turmoil. Reading further up in his post he said give him something complex and he cant understand it well. And the development cycle of linux is chaotic and somewhat complex. So perhaps hes not out to get linux as much as everyone thinks. He hardly commented much on it proving one of a few things. Either A>he doesnt care B> he didnt have enuff technical information ( which is probably not true since he said he read the source ) or C> He is jealous and out to completely annihilate all *nix butt plan 9. Yeeah.. Anyhow. thats what I think. Keep on coding. Butt keep on fixing stuff. Also. Its when we fail to improve what already exists that we lose something to innovativity and to bloated software. If we just keep adding cool features and dont make the code we have nicer/better/faster/smaller that Linux dies. And people its happenin..
Okay I hear a lot of people really excited here about the K7. Put a few things into perspective. First AMD said about the same thing about the K6 among other chips... We all know they didnt come through as strong as they wanted or they would not have reported such huge losses. Now I hear all this talk about the K7 and SMP and 2,000 MHZ processors. Im more weary than excited about the K7. And possibly a little fearful that the only real competition INTEL has seen on the PC market is going to die out. And what about the SMP all anyone talks about or ever says to the press are these obfuscated riddles. Nothing concrete has yet to come from AMD. Yet people want the chips even if they are not as great as said? AMD has showed stockholders a overclocked chip thats all. Ugh I can see this being just like the K6-2
What is this crap about Games and Marlyn Manson(I dont even know how to spell his name...) and all these things many Non-conformists like being the problems with society!! It is total hypocrisy on the part of the media and the people who beleive even ONE bit of it. It all makes me sick inside. Take a walk back to the midieval times with me when... It was a public spectacle to see people half-choked to death, drowned, racked, drawn, quartered and beheaded.. And families with children not even old enough to comprehend the events occuring around them watched. This numbing to violence stuff the media forces on our society is such BULL. I dont think 90% of the people in modern society COULD handle the graphic detail of a drawing and quartering. I have done my fair share of hunting and find it pretty nasty when you field dress the animals you have slain. I threw up the first few times. That is just a simple fact. Now anyone even the weak and demented can pick up a gun and do some serious damage. In the midieval times you had to be huge and buff to really do damage like the sick people at columbine High school did. So is this stuff the prevailing cause of the decay of society? The answer is pretty simple. NO, so what IS the cause? Perhaps its the very people who force these sort of ideals into the minds of everyone. That in fact they force these sort of sentiments into the minds of America's youth......
With so many articles posted already this is bound to be redundant. However, Ive observed a few things about my High School in the last few days. Everyones a little freaked. And people are being very zealous and very misdirected in there actions they are taking. (people reffering to school administration and faculty) Rather than do the very thing all these phsychologists would have us beleive should happen which is talk to people. People are being kicked out of my school for band stickers on there folders. People with trenchcoats ( whom wore them LONG before this ever happened.. students whose parents even teach at the school ( even teach there own chldrne )) Are being ridiculed. Many of these people are different. Non conformists. It makes me very sad to see so many people who have absolutely no clue. Rather than listen they just shuffle the problem aside making it worse. Talk about irony. Thats the school system for you. What will REALLY? help. Take away the clothing on a person and all thats left is personality anyways. Something that would leave the prepish/athletes the truly naked ones in many cases. It takes a lot of heart to be ridiculed every day. Ive never suffered personally butt.. I know people who have and its pretty tough just being around them some days helping them with there problems. nuff said
This is a very murky situation. The truth is always somewhere in between what most people will ever see. Perens is a nice guy, I've conversed with him via E-mail several times about various things. How many figure-heads of the Open Source community will reply to you? I do not know since I have not really tried many times. From what I can tell ESR seems a little strung out / overdosed on jolt I mean Come on. Does anyone really appreciate someone who cannot control his testosterone and make intelligible replies other than 'youll regret that asshole etc. etc.' thats no way ANYONE who is supposedly very qualified to relate linux to suits and people who mean so much to open source. Its just not going to work. I can just imagine what my boss'd say to me if I called someone we work for an ahole.. Thatd be great. They may not work for each other butt they both work for the same ideals and goals. From personal experience.. being rude will get no one anywhere. Perens may have taken it a leeetle far. And no one knows what has been said between them so no one really knows the truth as I said it lies somewhere inbetween so we can only speculate from what we have seen these two great people say publicly. So perhaps all of our decisions are biased/unfounded? Who can say for sure. A thing you can be sure about is that this is not helpful for anyone when you resort to words you learned at eight and had your mouth washed out for using. This sort of stuff makes ME personally weary of using open source to any large capacity in our business. Not now but in the future I will probably be a factor in these sort of decisions in our company. I doubt I can sell people a product that is uncertain and seems unstable.. no matter how great I personally know it is.:-) My words most liekly not to live by are now known to the rest of the world.:-)
Perhaps I have been living in my own hole of the earth a little to long. I have been using linux for a good while now I got on right as 2.0.0 was out and that was a huge thing. I'm not yelling at anyone or saying anything bad about a person. Butt free software has found its way to me largely without any help from eric raymond. I didnt even know who he was before today. Now Im reading all these semi-flames and all about ESR A friend of mine who has been interested and using Free software before most of us could pronounce computer introduced me to the *nix world. So my conclusion is. Sooner or later this would have happened? Perhaps without the aggresive domineering attitude that I'm seeing portrayed more and more. That is not cool. Best thing for linux and free software to make its way into corporate america is to be a time tested and proven tool for corporations not something that they heard about yesterday and are trying to use the next. Sure technology changes on a daily basis and the world seems to move at a amazing pace. But there is a point when things need to be looked at carefully and things need to slow down. Now linux is on a radical and unalterable course IMO. The linux society is in a lot less control now of where linux goes. Now that its been dumped into the lap of corporate america by aggresive persons such as ESR. This may not be the worst for OSS and all that. But I dont guess its the best either..
My two cents. Right or Wrong all people think differently thus have different opinons.
Slashdot Mirror
Sticks and stones may break my bones..
Words (names) may never hurt me?
Altho it may not be just a name. It may be some people striving for things we dont know about. But it is what each individual calls it. If Linus names it GNU/Linux its not an edict passed from the holy lands that you must follow or be slain. And this also has little bearing on anything important. Except people like to argue. And this is the reason of the hour. Get over it please.. Thanks
Jeremy Allen
knights@hom.net
I seriously almost got angry at the way MS treated this whole entire Business. Of course it does not really matter. Benchmarks are meaningless numbers to begin with. MS will try and make Linux look bad. Just another game high powered Money driven people can play very well with the 'Linux Community' (as if we are a corporation) In the end the better OS wins. It may take a while. And we may have to get MUCH better. But at a point it will become evident that Linux can beat the pants off of NT. It may or may not be able to now. In the future we all know what will be the end result. People will wake up from the stupor of the MS media poisoning and realize that Linux is not so bad. Hopefully that day comes soon.
While everyone is tossing 10k Around why dont they toss a little to /. ? :-)
Jeremy Allen
knights@hom.net
Just to bring up a nice point that has been covered by a lot of posts here. Benchmarks are IRRELEVANT. They mean little to the true Measure of an Operating Systems capability. Yet, If the community allows them to seem important then what does that really do to us..?
This all seems a little bad for linux in a lot of ways. Ill touch a couple no one else has I dont beleive. Mindcraft is developing Hardware to enhance NT, thats great NT runs faster taking advantage of some cool stuff. ( yes it is cool even if NT uses it ) So instead of saying.. Gee these guys are ripping the Linux community off. Ask yourself, Why has'nt anyone developed hardware that takes advantage of really cool stuff in Linux that NT does not have. Or ask yourself Why does'nt Linux support some of this really cool stuff, Why doesnt someone just start writing the code now instead of complaning about bad publicity. In the end good media or bad media it does not matter... People will go to what is best, easiest, and most cost effective. So all these tests dont mean anything compared to personal experience of individuals's. Sure its coming from important people, butt it also must make you ask why they are trying so hard to do this and How they truly have an edge, its apparent they have some things that Linux does not and everyones all upset about it or else the posts wouldnt be like they are.
Jeremy Allen
knights@hom.net
Thompson brings up a few interesting points. Saying that windows is unreliable, Something many people know understand and yet still trust? and that Linux IS worse.. That seemed a little harsh. Butt come to think of it. I have tried FreeBSD, and I have tried Linux and I LIVE with NT at work. Often times ive asked my bosses why not Linux, or Why not *nix. The answer is pretty simple since we are a small shop that needs very quick and rapid application development. NT has all the tools and can stay running long enough to make the money, The interface saves time mostly in learning curve I would imagine. Linux perhaps needs to and already has taken note of this. Thompson think slinux is unreliable. And from his perspective it is a chaotic world of turmoil. Reading further up in his post he said give him something complex and he cant understand it well. And the development cycle of linux is chaotic and somewhat complex. So perhaps hes not out to get linux as much as everyone thinks. He hardly commented much on it proving one of a few things. Either A>he doesnt care B> he didnt have enuff technical information ( which is probably not true since he said he read the source ) or C> He is jealous and out to completely annihilate all *nix butt plan 9. Yeeah.. Anyhow. thats what I think. Keep on coding. Butt keep on fixing stuff. Also. Its when we fail to improve what already exists that we lose something to innovativity and to bloated software. If we just keep adding cool features and dont make the code we have nicer/better/faster/smaller that Linux dies. And people its happenin..
Okay I hear a lot of people really excited here about the K7. Put a few things into perspective. First AMD said about the same thing about the K6 among other chips... We all know they didnt come through as strong as they wanted or they would not have reported such huge losses. Now I hear all this talk about the K7 and SMP and 2,000 MHZ processors. Im more weary than excited about the K7. And possibly a little fearful that the only real competition INTEL has seen on the PC market is going to die out. And what about the SMP all anyone talks about or ever says to the press are these obfuscated riddles. Nothing concrete has yet to come from AMD. Yet people want the chips even if they are not as great as said? AMD has showed stockholders a overclocked chip thats all. Ugh I can see this being just like the K6-2
Jeremy Allen
knights@hom.net
What is this crap about Games and Marlyn Manson(I dont even know how to spell his name...) and all these things many Non-conformists like being the problems with society!! It is total hypocrisy on the part of the media and the people who beleive even ONE bit of it. It all makes me sick inside. Take a walk back to the midieval times with me when... It was a public spectacle to see people half-choked to death, drowned, racked, drawn, quartered and beheaded.. And families with children not even old enough to comprehend the events occuring around them watched. This numbing to violence stuff the media forces on our society is such BULL. I dont think 90% of the people in modern society COULD handle the graphic detail of a drawing and quartering. I have done my fair share of hunting and find it pretty nasty when you field dress the animals you have slain. I threw up the first few times. That is just a simple fact. Now anyone even the weak and demented can pick up a gun and do some serious damage. In the midieval times you had to be huge and buff to really do damage like the sick people at columbine High school did. So is this stuff the prevailing cause of the decay of society? The answer is pretty simple. NO, so what IS the cause? Perhaps its the very people who force these sort of ideals into the minds of everyone. That in fact they force these sort of sentiments into the minds of America's youth......
With so many articles posted already this is bound to be redundant. However, Ive observed a few things about my High School in the last few days. Everyones a little freaked. And people are being very zealous and very misdirected in there actions they are taking. (people reffering to school administration and faculty) Rather than do the very thing all these phsychologists would have us beleive should happen which is talk to people. People are being kicked out of my school for band stickers on there folders. People with trenchcoats ( whom wore them LONG before this ever happened.. students whose parents even teach at the school ( even teach there own chldrne )) Are being ridiculed. Many of these people are different. Non conformists. It makes me very sad to see so many people who have absolutely no clue. Rather than listen they just shuffle the problem aside making it worse. Talk about irony. Thats the school system for you. What will REALLY? help. Take away the clothing on a person and all thats left is personality anyways. Something that would leave the prepish/athletes the truly naked ones in many cases. It takes a lot of heart to be ridiculed every day. Ive never suffered personally butt.. I know people who have and its pretty tough just being around them some days helping them with there problems. nuff said
This is a very murky situation. The truth is always somewhere in between what most people will ever see. Perens is a nice guy, I've conversed with him via E-mail several times about various things. How many figure-heads of the Open Source community will reply to you? I do not know since I have not really tried many times. From what I can tell ESR seems a little strung out / overdosed on jolt I mean Come on. Does anyone really appreciate someone who cannot control his testosterone and make intelligible replies other than 'youll regret that asshole etc. etc.' thats no way ANYONE who is supposedly very qualified to relate linux to suits and people who mean so much to open source. Its just not going to work. I can just imagine what my boss'd say to me if I called someone we work for an ahole.. Thatd be great. They may not work for each other butt they both work for the same ideals and goals. From personal experience.. being rude will get no one anywhere. Perens may have taken it a leeetle far. And no one knows what has been said between them so no one really knows the truth as I said it lies somewhere inbetween so we can only speculate from what we have seen these two great people say publicly. So perhaps all of our decisions are biased/unfounded? Who can say for sure. A thing you can be sure about is that this is not helpful for anyone when you resort to words you learned at eight and had your mouth washed out for using. This sort of stuff makes ME personally weary of using open source to any large capacity in our business. Not now but in the future I will probably be a factor in these sort of decisions in our company. I doubt I can sell people a product that is uncertain and seems unstable.. no matter how great I personally know it is. :-) My words most liekly not to live by are now known to the rest of the world. :-)
Jeremy Allen
knights@hom.net
Perhaps I have been living in my own hole of the earth a little to long. I have been using linux for a good while now I got on right as 2.0.0 was out and that was a huge thing. I'm not yelling at anyone or saying anything bad about a person. Butt free software has found its way to me largely without any help from eric raymond. I didnt even know who he was before today. Now Im reading all these semi-flames and all about ESR A friend of mine who has been interested and using Free software before most of us could pronounce computer introduced me to the *nix world. So my conclusion is. Sooner or later this would have happened? Perhaps without the aggresive domineering attitude that I'm seeing portrayed more and more. That is not cool. Best thing for linux and free software to make its way into corporate america is to be a time tested and proven tool for corporations not something that they heard about yesterday and are trying to use the next. Sure technology changes on a daily basis and the world seems to move at a amazing pace. But there is a point when things need to be looked at carefully and things need to slow down. Now linux is on a radical and unalterable course IMO. The linux society is in a lot less control now of where linux goes. Now that its been dumped into the lap of corporate america by aggresive persons such as ESR. This may not be the worst for OSS and all that. But I dont guess its the best either..
My two cents.
Right or Wrong all people think differently thus have different opinons.