What's high risk about it? All they're doing is moving to make their products usable on more platforms. I don't see what the risk is in expanding your market.
It reminds me a little of the legal system these days. With the right fee, it's not hard to find an highly-credentialed expert witness who just happends to agree with your side.
Amazingly, the other side also has an expert witness with great credentials who (surprise!) disagrees with everything your witness says.
You know, I'm believing less and less that the bogus court demonstration video was a simple "accident".
OTOH, I'm believing more and more that MS has perfected the use of deniable "mistakes" that just happen to make big initial splashes in the the press, but are quietly found to be wrong later.
So after busting my butt for years, some group comes along and tells my current and future clients that I'm lazy and overpaid?
As so many people have pointed out, GOOD programmers try NOT to write many lines of code. The whole fscking point of OOP is REUSE.
I'm being criticized for paying attention to non-code activities like design, specification, and finding the most efficient way to do the job? HELLO -- GOOD software developers spend MOST of their time on these activities!
Call it programming, developing, software engineering -- the job is about THINKING not TYPING.
If you want a TYPIST, I suggest you hire someone who went to secretarial school.
I don't put in enough overtime? I'll be sure to remember that on the next Sunday I'm working to meet a deadline. Who are these people to suggest I'm "lazy" on the few weeks I only work 40 hours? Last time I checked, THEY ONLY PAY ME FOR 40 HOURS A WEEK!
So help me, the only comments in the code were used to "block out" unused lines. For every 5 lines of working code, there were at least another 5 of commented-out code where things had been tried, not worked, and left in the source.
When I first started programming, I wouldn't do something unless I either got paid for it or learned something from it.
Funny -- now I code for a living during the day and do free stuff in my extra time. I find that, after 8+ hrs. of PHBs and meetings, I actually enjoy working on something that has MY specs and MY deadline.
I realize that the spread of GNU/Linux has been exponential in the last year or two. I know things like this sometimes hit companies by surprise.
However, it took 50% of their customers using/considering a platform to get them to develop for that platform? Given that it will take a while to actually write the software -- don't you think they waited a little late? I would think development would have at least been considered at the "20% and climbing fast" mark.
This is not a bash (or even a csh) on 3Com -- I suspect they may have been surprised by the numbers. It's meant more as a wake-up call to other developers "considering" the GNU/Linux platform. If you waiting for the marketing studies, be advised that your competition may not wait.
Obviously, you can't jump ship everytime something doesn't go the way you think it should. The times I have decided to leave it was because conditions got to the point where it was consistently interfering with enjoying my life outside of work. When absurd deadlines and job stress caused me to snap at loved ones or spend weekends in a surly mood -- I polished the resume.
Also, when a project is clearly doomed and your job depends on the project, I think it's time to start looking -- you will be looking eventually, anyway.
/* Two cents of advice for tech employers -- with IT professionals in demand right now, it's often easier to go elsewhere than it is to put up with managerial stupidity. */
You know, I remembered something important long after posting:
I've worked a little with studio equipment (Akai HD recorders, DAT decks, digital processors). I don't recall ANY of them having a sample rate higher than 48khz. I think a lot of audio processors now are using 20 to 24-bit sampling but are still sampling at 48khz (at best).
This isn't even taking into account distortion and limitations imposed by microphones and speakers.
I agree completely that higher sampling rates and bit counts will reduce distortion (esp. at higher freqs as you said), but I'm left wondering what good it does if the distortion is introduced by components in the studio -- I guess you reduce the (negligable?) cumulative effects.
I also wonder if we'll start seeing HD recorders and tools that do 24-bit/96khz. Better buy bigger hard drives, musicians....
Anyway, I'm sure this thread is pretty much dead now. Just wanted to get two more cents in. Thanks.:)
I just finished reading a post where someone called a poster an "idiot" for wondering why DVD was even necessary.
I'm sorry, I find it very hard to believe, even with the best possible equipment, that anyone can tell the difference between 16 and 24-bit audio. I also don't see what 96khz sampling gets you, except a frequency response up to ~48khz. That's real useful when the human ear can't hear anything higher than 20khz.
I'm all for more accurate sampling and reproduction, but the human ear is far more subjective than the equipment being discussed here.
First of all, I haven't worked on the Mozilla codebase any. I'm up to my ears in projects (some free, some not) as it is. So take this for what it's worth:
Netscape apparently had code problems long before releasing Mozilla as open source. This is common in software companies where "featuritis" gets combined with "must ship" deadlines on a mature (old?) base product. Harried developers make quick, inelegant patches in places where a complete rewrite would be the Right Thing.
Also, much of the code for Mozilla/Netscape is written to be portable on different systems. Reviewers comparing IE to Netscape seem to forget that Netscape runs on systems Microsoft can't touch. I suspect this keeps Mozilla developers from using a lot of the handy platform-specific libraries (such as MFC) that speed up development. It also can lead to code with a lot of #ifdef statements, which does nothing to make the code more readable.
Finally, as has been pointed out before, the original released source was huge, complicated, and nowhere near complete. It's always more fun to add coolness to a solid program than it is to undo cruftiness. Perhaps a better approach would have been to start from scratch with a very simple well-designed Gecko engine and release that into the open-source wilderness. (Yes, that's 20/20 hindsight from an armchair project manager.)
Personally, I'm really looking forward to the new Netscape and the Gecko engine. Some of these people criticizing the project remind me of PHBs who stand over my shoulder and say, "Is it ready yet? How about now?"
I've read better essays on the men's room wall! For some examples of REAL writing, I refer you to my MANY previous slashdot posts:
"What does RMS stand for?" -- a brilliant ASCII tome (EBCDIC version also available) in which I point out that Free Software vs. Free Beer is irrelevant, because bars have been offering Free Peanuts for years. Indeed, if the FSF wants to be noticed, they should push for Free Nachos.
"Where's a Moderator When You Need One?" -- in which I explain, in detail, the Rob Malda-led conspiracy to systematically REDUCE the scores of my posts through biased and unfair moderation.
"Jon Katz Sux" -- pretty much speaks for itself.
Of course, unlike you, I would NEVER stoop to threats of violins to make my point. I'll let my writing speak for me and the entire slashdot community, whether they like it or not.
...is a private matter and is NOBODY'S BUSINESS but mine and his.
Maybe if you took the time to read my brilliant essay "The Catheter is Bizarre" you might begin to recognize my DIVINE RIGHT to speak for programmers everywhere -- even the poor slobs using Visual Basic!
How DARE you suggest that programmers might sometimes overreact! Clearly, the entire programming community (which I represent) MUST question both your intelligence and your motives. I have a big dog. I just fed him a bowl of chili. I suggest you WATCH YOUR STEP.
Someone says, "Watch your step," in an email and the conclusion is that he intends to use a gun against you? Stereotypes and gun control arguments aside, isn't that a bit of a stretch?
If you wanted to remain object-oriented on a true application server, Java with CORBA and Remote Method Invocations seems to be the obvious solution. Other alternatives might be: (1) implement DCOM on Linux, (2) forget passing "objects" and just create a server-side socket listener that handles client requests, (3) find and use a C++ -based CORBA architecture that understands distributed objects.
In Windows environments, distributed applications always seem to me to have some common elements: 1) Multi-tiered architecture with business objects sitting between remote clients and a database. 2) Even if it's not in the original design, sooner or later someone wants to web-enable the application. The "application" server ends up being a "web" server and the application becomes inter/intranet-based. People like being able to get their sales reports at home on their web browser.
In theory, this could all be done on Linux with existing tools (Java, RMI, CORBA, JDBC, Oracle/Informix/Sybase databases). It just remains for someone to do it. Personally, I'd love an excuse to take a crack at it.
A few things would make this happen: 1) A company with the necessary capital and talent sees a market for it.
2) Members of the Free Software community decide that it's an itch and move to scratch it.
3) A non-software company decides they need a distributed application on reliable GNU/Linux servers. They find a willing and able developer and fund the development of the project.
BTW -- If you represent the non-software company in #3, my email address is emaier@maiermedia.com. Let's talk.:)
This is a big pet peeve of mine. Years ago, I entered college as a Computer Science major. I went through the entire first semester never using or even seeing a computer. The Engineering department felt it was more important that I get a solid foundation in traditional engineering skills -- so I took courses like "Engineering Drafting".
Well, at least I could DRAW a computer.
I ended up changing majors and eventually graduated with a Political Science degree.
Five years ago, I happened to find a course catalog for that college. I checked the CompSci program and found that C programming was a GRADUATE course. You had to pay them for four years to get a degree, then pay even more to learn how to do anything USEFUL in the real world.
IMHO, the real problem is that colleges are trying to gouge their students. They are using the prestige of being a college to overcharge people, waste their time with pointless courses, excuse horrible instructors, and generally treat students -- the people PAYING their salaries -- like dirt. Maybe it's time for them to wake up, look at the real world, and ask if what they are doing is relevant.
Slashdot Mirror
Kind of funny:
When I first started using X-systems, I remember thinking, "No MDIs -- how primitive".
Now, when I use an MDI under Windows, I think, "I can't see everything I'm working on. What a pain."
What's high risk about it? All they're doing is moving to make their products usable on more platforms. I don't see what the risk is in expanding your market.
It reminds me a little of the legal system these days. With the right fee, it's not hard to find an highly-credentialed expert witness who just happends to agree with your side.
Amazingly, the other side also has an expert witness with great credentials who (surprise!) disagrees with everything your witness says.
You know, I'm believing less and less that the bogus court demonstration video was a simple "accident".
OTOH, I'm believing more and more that MS has perfected the use of deniable "mistakes" that just happen to make big initial splashes in the the press, but are quietly found to be wrong later.
So after busting my butt for years, some group comes along and tells my current and future clients that I'm lazy and overpaid?
As so many people have pointed out, GOOD programmers try NOT to write many lines of code. The whole fscking point of OOP is REUSE.
I'm being criticized for paying attention to non-code activities like design, specification, and finding the most efficient way to do the job? HELLO -- GOOD software developers spend MOST of their time on these activities!
Call it programming, developing, software engineering -- the job is about THINKING not TYPING.
If you want a TYPIST, I suggest you hire someone who went to secretarial school.
I don't put in enough overtime? I'll be sure to remember that on the next Sunday I'm working to meet a deadline. Who are these people to suggest I'm "lazy" on the few weeks I only work 40 hours? Last time I checked, THEY ONLY PAY ME FOR 40 HOURS A WEEK!
So help me, the only comments in the code were used to "block out" unused lines. For every 5 lines of working code, there were at least another 5 of commented-out code where things had been tried, not worked, and left in the source.
It's licensed under GPL -- you can copy it, modify it, or redistribute it. :)
You also have to be able to use three of those stylus-thingies at the same time to hold down the control keys. It's kind of like using chopsticks. :P
When I first started programming, I wouldn't do something unless I either got paid for it or learned something from it.
Funny -- now I code for a living during the day and do free stuff in my extra time. I find that, after 8+ hrs. of PHBs and meetings, I actually enjoy working on something that has MY specs and MY deadline.
Maybe I'm just too geeked out.
I realize that the spread of GNU/Linux has been exponential in the last year or two. I know things like this sometimes hit companies by surprise.
However, it took 50% of their customers using/considering a platform to get them to develop for that platform? Given that it will take a while to actually write the software -- don't you think they waited a little late? I would think development would have at least been considered at the "20% and climbing fast" mark.
This is not a bash (or even a csh) on 3Com -- I suspect they may have been surprised by the numbers. It's meant more as a wake-up call to other developers "considering" the GNU/Linux platform. If you waiting for the marketing studies, be advised that your competition may not wait.
Obviously, you can't jump ship everytime something doesn't go the way you think it should.
The times I have decided to leave it was because conditions got to the point where it was consistently interfering with enjoying my life outside of work. When absurd deadlines and job stress caused me to snap at loved ones or spend weekends in a surly mood -- I polished the resume.
Also, when a project is clearly doomed and your job depends on the project, I think it's time to start looking -- you will be looking eventually, anyway.
/* Two cents of advice for tech employers -- with IT professionals in demand right now, it's often easier to go elsewhere than it is to put up with managerial stupidity. */
Pretty much says it all.
"More people have ascended bodily into heaven than have shipped great software on time."
(Author forgotten -- sorry)
You know, I remembered something important long after posting:
:)
I've worked a little with studio equipment (Akai HD recorders, DAT decks, digital processors). I don't recall ANY of them having a sample rate higher than 48khz. I think a lot of audio processors now are using 20 to 24-bit sampling but are still sampling at 48khz (at best).
This isn't even taking into account distortion and limitations imposed by microphones and speakers.
I agree completely that higher sampling rates and bit counts will reduce distortion (esp. at higher freqs as you said), but I'm left wondering what good it does if the distortion is introduced by components in the studio -- I guess you reduce the (negligable?) cumulative effects.
I also wonder if we'll start seeing HD recorders and tools that do 24-bit/96khz. Better buy bigger hard drives, musicians....
Anyway, I'm sure this thread is pretty much dead now. Just wanted to get two more cents in. Thanks.
I just finished reading a post where someone called a poster an "idiot" for wondering why DVD was even necessary.
I'm sorry, I find it very hard to believe, even with the best possible equipment, that anyone can tell the difference between 16 and 24-bit audio. I also don't see what 96khz sampling gets you, except a frequency response up to ~48khz. That's real useful when the human ear can't hear anything higher than 20khz.
I'm all for more accurate sampling and reproduction, but the human ear is far more subjective than the equipment being discussed here.
It was a 1 when it made me snicker. Let's see which way it goes.
Sorry, but I think real science is not terribly concerned with justifying stereotypes.
First of all, I haven't worked on the Mozilla codebase any. I'm up to my ears in projects (some free, some not) as it is. So take this for what it's worth:
Netscape apparently had code problems long before releasing Mozilla as open source. This is common in software companies where "featuritis" gets combined with "must ship" deadlines on a mature (old?) base product. Harried developers make quick, inelegant patches in places where a complete rewrite would be the Right Thing.
Also, much of the code for Mozilla/Netscape is written to be portable on different systems. Reviewers comparing IE to Netscape seem to forget that Netscape runs on systems Microsoft can't touch. I suspect this keeps Mozilla developers from using a lot of the handy platform-specific libraries (such as MFC) that speed up development. It also can lead to code with a lot of #ifdef statements, which does nothing to make the code more readable.
Finally, as has been pointed out before, the original released source was huge, complicated, and nowhere near complete. It's always more fun to add coolness to a solid program than it is to undo cruftiness. Perhaps a better approach would have been to start from scratch with a very simple well-designed Gecko engine and release that into the open-source wilderness. (Yes, that's 20/20 hindsight from an armchair project manager.)
Personally, I'm really looking forward to the new Netscape and the Gecko engine. Some of these people criticizing the project remind me of PHBs who stand over my shoulder and say, "Is it ready yet? How about now?"
There's a ...uhh... cosmetic surgeon in Houston who is already using "Silicon Gear".
:)
Ok, maybe not.
I've read better essays on the men's room wall! For some examples of REAL writing, I refer you to my MANY previous slashdot posts:
"What does RMS stand for?" -- a brilliant ASCII tome (EBCDIC version also available) in which I point out that Free Software vs. Free Beer is irrelevant, because bars have been offering Free Peanuts for years. Indeed, if the FSF wants to be noticed, they should push for Free Nachos.
"Where's a Moderator When You Need One?" -- in which I explain, in detail, the Rob Malda-led conspiracy to systematically REDUCE the scores of my posts through biased and unfair moderation.
"Jon Katz Sux" -- pretty much speaks for itself.
Of course, unlike you, I would NEVER stoop to threats of violins to make my point. I'll let my writing speak for me and the entire slashdot community, whether they like it or not.
...is a private matter and is NOBODY'S BUSINESS but mine and his.
Maybe if you took the time to read my brilliant essay "The Catheter is Bizarre" you might begin to recognize my DIVINE RIGHT to speak for programmers everywhere -- even the poor slobs using Visual Basic!
How DARE you suggest that programmers might sometimes overreact! Clearly, the entire programming community (which I represent) MUST question both your intelligence and your motives. I have a big dog. I just fed him a bowl of chili. I suggest you WATCH YOUR STEP.
Someone says, "Watch your step," in an email and the conclusion is that he intends to use a gun against you? Stereotypes and gun control arguments aside, isn't that a bit of a stretch?
If you wanted to remain object-oriented on a true application server, Java with CORBA and Remote Method Invocations seems to be the obvious solution. Other alternatives might be: (1) implement DCOM on Linux, (2) forget passing "objects" and just create a server-side socket listener that handles client requests, (3) find and use a C++ -based CORBA architecture that understands distributed objects.
In Windows environments, distributed applications always seem to me to have some common elements:
1) Multi-tiered architecture with business objects sitting between remote clients and a database.
2) Even if it's not in the original design, sooner or later someone wants to web-enable the application. The "application" server ends up being a "web" server and the application becomes inter/intranet-based. People like being able to get their sales reports at home on their web browser.
In theory, this could all be done on Linux with existing tools (Java, RMI, CORBA, JDBC, Oracle/Informix/Sybase databases). It just remains for someone to do it. Personally, I'd love an excuse to take a crack at it.
A few things would make this happen:
:)
1) A company with the necessary capital and talent sees a market for it.
2) Members of the Free Software community decide that it's an itch and move to scratch it.
3) A non-software company decides they need a distributed application on reliable GNU/Linux servers. They find a willing and able developer and fund the development of the project.
BTW -- If you represent the non-software company in #3, my email address is emaier@maiermedia.com. Let's talk.
This is a big pet peeve of mine. Years ago, I entered college as a Computer Science major. I went through the entire first semester never using or even seeing a computer. The Engineering department felt it was more important that I get a solid foundation in traditional engineering skills -- so I took courses like "Engineering Drafting".
Well, at least I could DRAW a computer.
I ended up changing majors and eventually graduated with a Political Science degree.
Five years ago, I happened to find a course catalog for that college. I checked the CompSci program and found that C programming was a GRADUATE course. You had to pay them for four years to get a degree, then pay even more to learn how to do anything USEFUL in the real world.
IMHO, the real problem is that colleges are trying to gouge their students. They are using the prestige of being a college to overcharge people, waste their time with pointless courses, excuse horrible instructors, and generally treat students -- the people PAYING their salaries -- like dirt. Maybe it's time for them to wake up, look at the real world, and ask if what they are doing is relevant.