I hope you spent 4 other points on off topic mods then, because I was most certainly on topic for what was really being discussed at the time of the post.
To paraphrase the NRA... Websites don't kill people. People kill people.
Although it seems a constant theme to claim otherwise, nothing on earth is to blame for your actions other than yourself. A website is no more to blame for a murder than note written on paper. Since motivation is based on interpretation and personal choice, there is no legitimate way to govern what is "dangerous" in graphical form.
A website advocating crime is not dangerous. People who allow themselves to be motivated by such a website are dangerous.
" maybe if ISP's responded to complaints about dangerous and obsene/illegal/racists websites..."
We could save lives from what...reading? If a web site is illegal, it should be dealt with in an appropriate fashion. Other than that, the rest of your criteria are based on arbitrary opinion. If we censor what you think is "obsene", dangerous, or racist, we'll have to censor all possible interpretations of those criteria. We'll be left with a bland, tasteless world devoid of the things that make life interesting. Without the bad, you'd never know you had it so good.
Free as in beer? Free as in speech? Free as in free, damn it. It's a word and it has a definition. Let's stop abusing it.
Frankly, I find the entire GNU/GPL movement hypocritical. The only truly free software is that which has no license, copyright, or patent. All the GNU prattling makes it feel to me like a camp with the barbwire facing inward, armed border guards you can't bribe, and a little crazy dictator preaching his word to the masses. Don't worry though. I hear the kool-aid is free as well.
KB has already done the "could not have done it at that age" argument. His next book will instead argue that Mozart was simply small and diminutive, which allowed him to lie about his age to the King of England. He was really 35 at the time.
I think I'd rather put plans into place to hide my death. Then I want my lawyer to keep track of how long it takes any of my "friends" to actually notice I'm gone. At a later date, he will get them all together (if they will even come) and berate them all with the information. My will shall award him a bonus for each person brought to tears. Then he is to kick them all out empty handed while laughing at them maniacally . He will then award everything to some reasonably intelligent (yet to be defined) low-income person who deserves (also yet to be defined) a break. He can then assume my online identity where it may benefit him as he so chooses.
More likely, it will all go to the government because I'll put off creating a will until I'm already dead.
Apathy their stepping stone So unfeeling Hidden deep animosity So deceiving Through your eyes their light burns Hoping to find Inquisition sinking you With prying minds
Lady Justice has been raped Truth assassin Rolls of red tape fill seal your lips Now you're done in Their money tips her scales again Make your deal Just what is truth? I cannot tell I cannot feel
The ultimate in vanity Exploiting their supremacy I can't believe the things you say I can't believe... I can't believe the price we pay
Nothing can save us
Justice is lost Justice is raped Justice is gone Pulling your strings Justice is done Seeking no truth Winning is all Fightning so grim So true So real
This could possibly be some open source proponent(s) funding a study so obviously false as to heap bad PR on well known enemies of open source. It would make sense to choose some connection that could be directly linked to Microsoft, since they are the largest enemy and the easiest target.
I have a $72000 degree. I got it by getting a scholarship, getting a grant, working in an aluminum plant, working in the cafeteria, delivering pizza, bussing tables at a restaurant, doing data entry, monitoring computer labs, working in a library, working at McDonald's, and selling gaming products in newsgroups. I also had some government subsidized loans. So the government actually helped. When I finished, I had about $18K in government debt, which I haven't even noticed paying off (even paying extra every month). So, yeah, it was more difficult than getting to go to school for free, but I learned more because of it.
The idea of not having time for something is interesting as well. I've run into it a lot and I've started labeling it "The Myth of No Time". Saying you have "no time" for something realy says you're not willing to make time for it. Work to live. Don't live to work. Anyone who says they don't have time for their kids shouldn't have had kids. Either you're willing to accept your responsibility or not. If your job demands that much time, it's time to find another job or another line of work.
How exactly does your response counter my argument that the government has little to do with the lack of education in America? Are you attempting to argue that, with more government intervention in education, we could all equally share the world's wealth? I don't see that as a valid argument. I also don't share the view that if I don't have as much as the most successful people that I'm somehow less successful. I've done exactly what I wanted to do. If I wanted to do more, I would have.
There is little to gain from blaming the rich(er) for your not being among them. It is not their nor the government's responsiblity to elevate you. You have to elevate yourself. The only thing standing in your way is you.
For the record, I'd say I'm upper middle class. My sister is whatever you call it when you own a place in Manhattan and can fly off to the Bahamas seemingly whenever you like (although she does only fly first class, not on her own plane).
"...especially the US and Australia... are opting for modeles where the Rich get educated and the 'poor' (those not in the top 10%) are receiving less education in order to become serfs for the elite."
The problem with education in America isn't the government. It is the parenting. I grew up in a trailer. We had barely enough money to eat. I attended a substandard school with substandard academics that did little to prepare me for the future. Yet, I've been successful, and my sister even more so (fucking overachiever). How is this possible with the low education and non-existant support from my government? Our parents instilled in us, from an early age, the importance of succeeding where they had failed. They paid attention and made sure we did not regress. This is the job of the parent. It is not the job of the government. No one, child or adult, should expect to "receive" an education. You seldom learn from something handed to you. The true lessons are from what you take or from what is taken from you. Any education is available if you have the initiative to find it. It is this initiative that children lack. For this lack, the parents are predominantly to blame.
"What's the point of threatening someone with stoppage when you're not paying them money in the first place?"
---
I don't understand your point here. The statement you're responding to stated that paying someone gives you an advantage since you can threaten to stop paying them in order to get things done. This does work, and it certainly works with Microsoft. The whole point was that you can't threaten to stop paying someone who is providing their software for free, and it appears you're simply reiterating that point.
Yeah, it might be crazy and off the wall when Tsui Hark gets done with it, but it will be fun to watch. He certainly couldn't do any worse.
I'd also like to see Tom Baker exit a suddenly appearing police box and offer Christopher Lee a Jelly Baby in the final scene. Then K-9 can take out everyone that's supposed to be dead in A New Hope. This could lead to a new Empire themed movie where the Daleks try to overthrow the Empire but are put down by the Emporer and Darth Vader.
You may, indeed, know what you're talking about. However, I find it highly unlikely that any EULA would indemnify Microsoft completely. Any criminal activity would certainly not be covered, and I could certainly file a civil suit for damages in excess of $200.
99% of the time, when you hear about a manager refusing to buy something "because it is free", it is actually because it does not have support (included or add-on) and does not provide significant legal recourse. It is seldom because it is perceived as "cheap". It is perceived as dangerous. If a product you purchased from Microsoft does you wrong you can seek recourse from Microsoft. You might have issues succeeding, but they're easy to find and they have money to take. Even being a paying customer has an inherent adventage. When you're regularly handing someone money, the threat of stoppage is a lever against that entity at the bargaining table.
If you want good mileage, just buy a 13+ year old CRX HF. They get 50 miles to the gallon and you can pay cash after you save up for a month (probably a couple weeks for some of you). They also last forever if you take care of them.
Technology isn't driven by the lowest common denominator. Perhaps mass-marketed technology appears to be so driven. The lowest common denominator is usually the largest percentage of possible customers. It is logical that a business, whose goal is to sell the most units, would customize the unit for the largest target market. It would be illogical for any business to alienate a majority to appease a minority. There is a balance to be kept, which they have and will continue to keep, where they lose the least number of customers in the minority to gain the most number of customers in the majority. Despite the protest on this board, comcast will gain more from this move than they will lose. Thus, their shareholders, whose opinions solely count, will be pleased.
The most valuable tool you can ever learn for a long and successful programming career is the efficient use of search engines. That is what you'll be doing more than anything else.
I think you're far better off attending a school that requires a wide range of subject matter, rather than a math-centered curriculum. No class teaches you enough of something to be very useful, but a broad exposure prepares you for the real world where you will be forced to answer scores of non-programming-related questions to accomplish your coding goals. It also helps a great deal in getting jobs when you can actually relate to something beyond the bounds of computer science.
I have a CS degree from a liberal arts college. I was required to take only Calc 1 and Discrete Math. I've been writing code for a decade now and I have had very little problem because of this lack of math in my background. The majority of coding jobs do not require math. I know that's been said before, but it's true. Of all the people I know writing code right now, I can name only one that uses math of any complexity. When I have a problem that requires a complex mathematical solution, I google it. If I want to understand something mathematically complex, I call a math major.
If you think the school was wrong in it's requirements, you can take it up with the Jesuits. I'd stand back, though. I had one of them try to smack me with his crutch once.
I don't know quite how to respond to this without it being taken as a flame. Here's the best I can do. If you truly want OpenBSD to succeed as an operating system on a grand scale, you're going to need to stop excusing it's weaknesses and admit those shortcomings that are obviously bad. SMP support is absolutely required for any widespread success in the enterprise, as well as the other areas mentioned in another reply to this post. You need to understand this if you want to truly have a dialogue on why someone will/won't use OpenBSD.
I'd love to use OpenBSD. I've wanted to use it for years, but all my servers that mean anything to me are multi-processor boxes and the last time I checked OpenBSD still didn't support SMP.
I didn't run out and check before writing this, so I apologize if things have changed since the last time I looked into OpenBSD.
Slashdot Mirror
I hope you spent 4 other points on off topic mods then, because I was most certainly on topic for what was really being discussed at the time of the post.
Free means without restriction. Using a tactic that employs a non-free aspect to advocate freedom is hypocrisy.
To paraphrase the NRA... Websites don't kill people. People kill people.
Although it seems a constant theme to claim otherwise, nothing on earth is to blame for your actions other than yourself. A website is no more to blame for a murder than note written on paper. Since motivation is based on interpretation and personal choice, there is no legitimate way to govern what is "dangerous" in graphical form.
A website advocating crime is not dangerous. People who allow themselves to be motivated by such a website are dangerous.
" maybe if ISP's responded to complaints about dangerous and obsene/illegal/racists websites..."
We could save lives from what...reading? If a web site is illegal, it should be dealt with in an appropriate fashion. Other than that, the rest of your criteria are based on arbitrary opinion. If we censor what you think is "obsene", dangerous, or racist, we'll have to censor all possible interpretations of those criteria. We'll be left with a bland, tasteless world devoid of the things that make life interesting. Without the bad, you'd never know you had it so good.
Free as in beer? Free as in speech? Free as in free, damn it. It's a word and it has a definition. Let's stop abusing it.
"How else can a kid make this kind of money, $20/hr."
...and contract killing. They never expect a 12 year old.
Well, there's meth, coke, heroin, marijuana, pcp, acid, shrooms...
Frankly, I find the entire GNU/GPL movement hypocritical. The only truly free software is that which has no license, copyright, or patent. All the GNU prattling makes it feel to me like a camp with the barbwire facing inward, armed border guards you can't bribe, and a little crazy dictator preaching his word to the masses. Don't worry though. I hear the kool-aid is free as well.
KB has already done the "could not have done it at that age" argument. His next book will instead argue that Mozart was simply small and diminutive, which allowed him to lie about his age to the King of England. He was really 35 at the time.
If I boycott ThinkGeek, I'll have to go to work naked. No one wants to see that.
I don't have any points and it's at 5 already anyway, but I'd mod this funny if I could. :)
I think I'd rather put plans into place to hide my death. Then I want my lawyer to keep track of how long it takes any of my "friends" to actually notice I'm gone. At a later date, he will get them all together (if they will even come) and berate them all with the information. My will shall award him a bonus for each person brought to tears. Then he is to kick them all out empty handed while laughing at them maniacally . He will then award everything to some reasonably intelligent (yet to be defined) low-income person who deserves (also yet to be defined) a break. He can then assume my online identity where it may benefit him as he so chooses.
More likely, it will all go to the government because I'll put off creating a will until I'm already dead.
Apathy their stepping stone
So unfeeling
Hidden deep animosity
So deceiving
Through your eyes their light burns
Hoping to find
Inquisition sinking you
With prying minds
Lady Justice has been raped
Truth assassin
Rolls of red tape fill seal your lips
Now you're done in
Their money tips her scales again
Make your deal
Just what is truth?
I cannot tell
I cannot feel
The ultimate in vanity
Exploiting their supremacy
I can't believe the things you say
I can't believe...
I can't believe the price we pay
Nothing can save us
Justice is lost
Justice is raped
Justice is gone
Pulling your strings
Justice is done
Seeking no truth
Winning is all
Fightning so grim
So true
So real
This could possibly be some open source proponent(s) funding a study so obviously false as to heap bad PR on well known enemies of open source. It would make sense to choose some connection that could be directly linked to Microsoft, since they are the largest enemy and the easiest target.
I have a $72000 degree. I got it by getting a scholarship, getting a grant, working in an aluminum plant, working in the cafeteria, delivering pizza, bussing tables at a restaurant, doing data entry, monitoring computer labs, working in a library, working at McDonald's, and selling gaming products in newsgroups. I also had some government subsidized loans. So the government actually helped. When I finished, I had about $18K in government debt, which I haven't even noticed paying off (even paying extra every month). So, yeah, it was more difficult than getting to go to school for free, but I learned more because of it.
The idea of not having time for something is interesting as well. I've run into it a lot and I've started labeling it "The Myth of No Time". Saying you have "no time" for something realy says you're not willing to make time for it. Work to live. Don't live to work. Anyone who says they don't have time for their kids shouldn't have had kids. Either you're willing to accept your responsibility or not. If your job demands that much time, it's time to find another job or another line of work.
How exactly does your response counter my argument that the government has little to do with the lack of education in America? Are you attempting to argue that, with more government intervention in education, we could all equally share the world's wealth? I don't see that as a valid argument. I also don't share the view that if I don't have as much as the most successful people that I'm somehow less successful. I've done exactly what I wanted to do. If I wanted to do more, I would have.
There is little to gain from blaming the rich(er) for your not being among them. It is not their nor the government's responsiblity to elevate you. You have to elevate yourself. The only thing standing in your way is you.
For the record, I'd say I'm upper middle class. My sister is whatever you call it when you own a place in Manhattan and can fly off to the Bahamas seemingly whenever you like (although she does only fly first class, not on her own plane).
"...especially the US and Australia... are opting for modeles where the Rich get educated and the 'poor' (those not in the top 10%) are receiving less education in order to become serfs for the elite."
The problem with education in America isn't the government. It is the parenting. I grew up in a trailer. We had barely enough money to eat. I attended a substandard school with substandard academics that did little to prepare me for the future. Yet, I've been successful, and my sister even more so (fucking overachiever). How is this possible with the low education and non-existant support from my government? Our parents instilled in us, from an early age, the importance of succeeding where they had failed. They paid attention and made sure we did not regress. This is the job of the parent. It is not the job of the government. No one, child or adult, should expect to "receive" an education. You seldom learn from something handed to you. The true lessons are from what you take or from what is taken from you. Any education is available if you have the initiative to find it. It is this initiative that children lack. For this lack, the parents are predominantly to blame.
"What's the point of threatening someone with stoppage when you're not paying them money in the first place?"
---
I don't understand your point here. The statement you're responding to stated that paying someone gives you an advantage since you can threaten to stop paying them in order to get things done. This does work, and it certainly works with Microsoft. The whole point was that you can't threaten to stop paying someone who is providing their software for free, and it appears you're simply reiterating that point.
Yeah, it might be crazy and off the wall when Tsui Hark gets done with it, but it will be fun to watch. He certainly couldn't do any worse.
I'd also like to see Tom Baker exit a suddenly appearing police box and offer Christopher Lee a Jelly Baby in the final scene. Then K-9 can take out everyone that's supposed to be dead in A New Hope. This could lead to a new Empire themed movie where the Daleks try to overthrow the Empire but are put down by the Emporer and Darth Vader.
You may, indeed, know what you're talking about. However, I find it highly unlikely that any EULA would indemnify Microsoft completely. Any criminal activity would certainly not be covered, and I could certainly file a civil suit for damages in excess of $200.
99% of the time, when you hear about a manager refusing to buy something "because it is free", it is actually because it does not have support (included or add-on) and does not provide significant legal recourse. It is seldom because it is perceived as "cheap". It is perceived as dangerous. If a product you purchased from Microsoft does you wrong you can seek recourse from Microsoft. You might have issues succeeding, but they're easy to find and they have money to take. Even being a paying customer has an inherent adventage. When you're regularly handing someone money, the threat of stoppage is a lever against that entity at the bargaining table.
If you want good mileage, just buy a 13+ year old CRX HF. They get 50 miles to the gallon and you can pay cash after you save up for a month (probably a couple weeks for some of you). They also last forever if you take care of them.
Technology isn't driven by the lowest common denominator. Perhaps mass-marketed technology appears to be so driven. The lowest common denominator is usually the largest percentage of possible customers. It is logical that a business, whose goal is to sell the most units, would customize the unit for the largest target market. It would be illogical for any business to alienate a majority to appease a minority. There is a balance to be kept, which they have and will continue to keep, where they lose the least number of customers in the minority to gain the most number of customers in the majority. Despite the protest on this board, comcast will gain more from this move than they will lose. Thus, their shareholders, whose opinions solely count, will be pleased.
The most valuable tool you can ever learn for a long and successful programming career is the efficient use of search engines. That is what you'll be doing more than anything else.
I think you're far better off attending a school that requires a wide range of subject matter, rather than a math-centered curriculum. No class teaches you enough of something to be very useful, but a broad exposure prepares you for the real world where you will be forced to answer scores of non-programming-related questions to accomplish your coding goals. It also helps a great deal in getting jobs when you can actually relate to something beyond the bounds of computer science.
I have a CS degree from a liberal arts college. I was required to take only Calc 1 and Discrete Math. I've been writing code for a decade now and I have had very little problem because of this lack of math in my background. The majority of coding jobs do not require math. I know that's been said before, but it's true. Of all the people I know writing code right now, I can name only one that uses math of any complexity. When I have a problem that requires a complex mathematical solution, I google it. If I want to understand something mathematically complex, I call a math major.
If you think the school was wrong in it's requirements, you can take it up with the Jesuits. I'd stand back, though. I had one of them try to smack me with his crutch once.
I don't know quite how to respond to this without it being taken as a flame. Here's the best I can do. If you truly want OpenBSD to succeed as an operating system on a grand scale, you're going to need to stop excusing it's weaknesses and admit those shortcomings that are obviously bad. SMP support is absolutely required for any widespread success in the enterprise, as well as the other areas mentioned in another reply to this post. You need to understand this if you want to truly have a dialogue on why someone will/won't use OpenBSD.
I'd love to use OpenBSD. I've wanted to use it for years, but all my servers that mean anything to me are multi-processor boxes and the last time I checked OpenBSD still didn't support SMP.
I didn't run out and check before writing this, so I apologize if things have changed since the last time I looked into OpenBSD.
FVWM2