I happen to know that Microsoft employees DO integrate open source into Microsofts products.
I happen to be at a place where I am constantly surrounded by Microsoft employees and overheard one of them say to another 'nah, don't waste your time coding all that... just grab it from the Linux source code. It'll save you some time'
You'll also notice in places like the Midwest and Texas, the rain almost ALWAYS come with lightning which has a far greater impact than rain. So saying it is rain is not entirely accurate unless you can somehow test without lightning.
Um... I live in Seattle, the land of perpetual rain, and I don't have problems with the satellite connection ever. I once did but got up on the roof, readjusted the dish and it has worked great ever since.
Even when it snowed up here I didn't have a single problems.
Well I believe I jumped the gun and don't know how to delete the original post.
Apparently, this overrules the judicial decision. Still, it's only a matter of time before someone tries to enforce this and it goes to the supreme court to be overturned
There was already a judicial case which established that though you can claim a copyright on your database, you cannot copyright the collection of data.
The case I speak of was with telephone databases. One sued the other because he had used the exact same data and the judge ruled that while the data was the same, the databases differed in how they delivered the data and how they were set up.
So yes, your database schema and layout may be copyrightable but not the contained data.
I ever so recently had to deal with a copyright AND trademark issue. First, find a lawyer who understand the GPL. Then have their office send a cease and desist order as the owner of the material being distributed. If they fail to respond, take legal action in a federal court.
You don't seem to get the clue yet so I'm going to do you a favor and do your thinking for you, ok? ALOT of languages have different flavors which are geared towards a certain product release (this is more common to scripting languages than compiled).
But regardless of the minor changes, it is STILL the same language. Hence, it is cross platform. What you are trying to say is that because in London and Australia, they speak differently and have different sayings and phrases, that it is a different language than American english. That's some spurious logic there, spasmo.
Aside from that, my wife works for a bank and deals with Smaltalk and yes, it does convert and it is easier than writing it all from scratch; it's a scripting language variant... of course it can convert to it's parent with a little tweaking.
Heh. I have. I've been tempted to write a small script that makes rules to convert between one version of SQL and another to help with automated ODBC connections.:)
I don't know of many software developers that develop in something that is still beta, do you? MONO is beta still. Expected to be gold this year but is still beta.
Also, since it is not supported by Microsoft or developed in conjunction, there is no guarantee that your code will work if changes are made to the codebase, the underlying API etc.
After far as development languages go, it's close to cross platform but still has a ways to go. And even then, the jury is out until further testing.
>>Yes, all these apps work on different platforms, but I'll bet under the hood, each version has been optimized with specialized tools for a specific platform.
Do not confuse the tool and it's end use. These tools can be used on various platforms and their code can be geared towards various platforms. But most software developers build one codebase and then tweak it for each OS. So rather than recoding the entire thing, they merely have to tweak the code for each seperate OS. It's cheaper and easier.
>>Can you show this to be so? No, not very many "enterprise" companies have dropped SQL Server. And, as we all know from the heated battle Linux is having getting into "enterprise", we do know that not very many large operations have switched yet, so there have not yet been "millions" spent on re-tooling.
Yes actually. Though you can do your own research if you are truly curious, many have reported that 15%-30% of companies running SQL Server switched after Slammer hit within 6 months. Don't believe that people have switched? Take a look at Ntecrafts stats for the last year and look at IIS (yes internet). You will see how many people have started to dump IIS and one can easily conclude that Microsoft has been dumped as well.
Recent reports list Linux as having a 33% server market share while MS has 23%; Microsoft makes a great deskop but a lousy server.
So again, you can say this is internet based. Well what isn't in a company these days. Web services has been high in demand since the 90's and still is to this day. People on the move want info on the move and you can't have that on a server you cant communicate with
But this is a dodge. I made the point and showed several software programs that do not use the internet but are used on various platforms. Fact remains: develop for one platform, be crippled by your dependency.
The more you limit yourself and your company, the more you limit your options. IT departments live and die by their options and those who paint themselves into a corner and have run out of options often spend millions trying to get out.
If you support this kind of mentallity, then I pity the company who you are painting into a corner.
Bzzzt. It's still smalltalk. Just like SQL, each vendor may have their own specific versions with minor code changes but the code is generally the same; in ther words, you will not have to completely recode it to have it work on other platforms... you just have to tweak it a little. Just as you would any C++ program, Java program, Python, PHP, Perl, or any other program.
There isn't a significant enough difference between the original smaltalk and this variant to qualify your answer and so while the INSTANCE of the code may not work on other machines, Smalltalk itself does and your code can be modified slightly in order to work on other machines without a revuild in another language.
That's not just internet. Oracle does not require a network connection to function. And the list goes beyond that; Photoshop, Flash, Illustrator, all work on Mac and Windows.
And to point out error in your argument, if you work in a steel mill that uses Windows, and you use windows apps, SQL server and build windows tools using Windows own language. That's swell and good. But many companies have lost millions just for doing that.
An example: When Code Red, Nimda and SQL Slammer hit in under 6 months time causing companies to lose massive amounts of information, their IT departments to crash and costing them millions. Many decided that they had enough and decided to switch. Some switched merely off of SQL Server while others switched off of Windows altogether. But because windows apps are not cross platform, they ended up having to spend millions trying to replace their infrastructure.
Now, let's say that steel mill decides they want a Linux server to handle things now. Those scripts are more than likely not going to work. You will have to recode them in another language.
Your development, infrastructure and so on all need maximum flexibility and maximum amount of options for success. But the more you limit those options, the greater chance you will paint yourself into a corner with no options left.
As an IT person, you will always want the maximum amount of options and by coding in a language that is not ready for the market yet, limits your options... both as a developer and as a business.
Yeah it does... MONO is still only beta. Know of any software development companies who wants to develop applications in a language that is still beta on a platform? Not me.
Nope... alot of developers make their tools for multiple platforms. Here's the short list:
Oracle, DB2, Apache, Real Media Player, Quake, Microsoft Office (works on Mac), Mozilla, Numerous mail servers, ftp servers, telnet servers, development tools, etc etc etc.
There is a huge list. And do you know why? Because software companies want to make money. And providing their tools on many platforms increases their marketshare. So most software development companies are NOT going to build their software apps using a language that only works on one OS; they instead will uses development languages where their end result can be tweaked slightly to run on different platforms, rather than recoding their tools completely from scratch.
For instance, let's say Oracle decided to build everything using C#. Once they were finished (since MONO is still in beta and not completely tested) they would more than likely recode everything in C++. Is this something they want to do? Hell no. So why not code in C++ from the start... that way all you have to do is tweak it a little for each OS.
Not really. People have only shown a BETA version and Applescript which is a scripting language and not compiled. Being moronic would be assuming that that there is no truth in what is being said here and being forced to retaliate with 3rd grade school yard tactics as shown by a pre-grade school level intellect.
You knuckle dragging tactics intrigue me but the fact remains that should your cromagnon shaped skull be able to fit more information that just the scratching of your genitalia into it's cramped space, you will realize that 90% of all development languages are cross platform.
You'll realize this shortly after the paramedics arrive with the jaws of life to extract your head from your ass.
Well unfortunately, comparing Java to C# on a Windows machine is like comparing a bird and a dolphins ability to swim in water; Several components of C# are integrated right into the operating system so naturally it's going to run faster on a windows machine. Compare C#, C++ and Java on machines where the components aren't integrated and then we will have a FAIR benchmark.
Oh wait! C# only runs on one operating system. Can you name any other development languages that only run on ONE OS, boys and girls? Neither can I.
Slashdot Mirror
I hope Duke Nukem Forever wins. Oh the irony.
I happen to know that Microsoft employees DO integrate open source into Microsofts products.
I happen to be at a place where I am constantly surrounded by Microsoft employees and overheard one of them say to another 'nah, don't waste your time coding all that... just grab it from the Linux source code. It'll save you some time'
Maybe now someone could verify that...
...and you give us the results we want to hear. It's the new Microsoft way of getting unbiased research done apparently.
You'll also notice in places like the Midwest and Texas, the rain almost ALWAYS come with lightning which has a far greater impact than rain. So saying it is rain is not entirely accurate unless you can somehow test without lightning.
Um... I live in Seattle, the land of perpetual rain, and I don't have problems with the satellite connection ever. I once did but got up on the roof, readjusted the dish and it has worked great ever since.
Even when it snowed up here I didn't have a single problems.
This is just Microsoft's way of saying 'Use Mozilla'. :)
Well I believe I jumped the gun and don't know how to delete the original post.
Apparently, this overrules the judicial decision. Still, it's only a matter of time before someone tries to enforce this and it goes to the supreme court to be overturned
There was already a judicial case which established that though you can claim a copyright on your database, you cannot copyright the collection of data.
The case I speak of was with telephone databases. One sued the other because he had used the exact same data and the judge ruled that while the data was the same, the databases differed in how they delivered the data and how they were set up.
So yes, your database schema and layout may be copyrightable but not the contained data.
I ever so recently had to deal with a copyright AND trademark issue. First, find a lawyer who understand the GPL. Then have their office send a cease and desist order as the owner of the material being distributed. If they fail to respond, take legal action in a federal court.
You don't seem to get the clue yet so I'm going to do you a favor and do your thinking for you, ok? ALOT of languages have different flavors which are geared towards a certain product release (this is more common to scripting languages than compiled).
But regardless of the minor changes, it is STILL the same language. Hence, it is cross platform. What you are trying to say is that because in London and Australia, they speak differently and have different sayings and phrases, that it is a different language than American english. That's some spurious logic there, spasmo.
Aside from that, my wife works for a bank and deals with Smaltalk and yes, it does convert and it is easier than writing it all from scratch; it's a scripting language variant... of course it can convert to it's parent with a little tweaking.
Now get a brain and get a life.
Heh. I have. I've been tempted to write a small script that makes rules to convert between one version of SQL and another to help with automated ODBC connections. :)
Bzzt. You don't know anything. Heh.
See? I can invalidate without providing facts or evidence too. And it makes me sound just as stupid as you.
I don't know of many software developers that develop in something that is still beta, do you? MONO is beta still. Expected to be gold this year but is still beta.
Also, since it is not supported by Microsoft or developed in conjunction, there is no guarantee that your code will work if changes are made to the codebase, the underlying API etc.
After far as development languages go, it's close to cross platform but still has a ways to go. And even then, the jury is out until further testing.
>>Yes, all these apps work on different platforms, but I'll bet under the hood, each version has been optimized with specialized tools for a specific platform.
Do not confuse the tool and it's end use. These tools can be used on various platforms and their code can be geared towards various platforms. But most software developers build one codebase and then tweak it for each OS. So rather than recoding the entire thing, they merely have to tweak the code for each seperate OS. It's cheaper and easier.
>>Can you show this to be so? No, not very many "enterprise" companies have dropped SQL Server. And, as we all know from the heated battle Linux is having getting into "enterprise", we do know that not very many large operations have switched yet, so there have not yet been "millions" spent on re-tooling.
Yes actually. Though you can do your own research if you are truly curious, many have reported that 15%-30% of companies running SQL Server switched after Slammer hit within 6 months. Don't believe that people have switched? Take a look at Ntecrafts stats for the last year and look at IIS (yes internet). You will see how many people have started to dump IIS and one can easily conclude that Microsoft has been dumped as well.
Recent reports list Linux as having a 33% server market share while MS has 23%; Microsoft makes a great deskop but a lousy server.
So again, you can say this is internet based. Well what isn't in a company these days. Web services has been high in demand since the 90's and still is to this day. People on the move want info on the move and you can't have that on a server you cant communicate with
But this is a dodge. I made the point and showed several software programs that do not use the internet but are used on various platforms. Fact remains: develop for one platform, be crippled by your dependency.
The more you limit yourself and your company, the more you limit your options. IT departments live and die by their options and those who paint themselves into a corner and have run out of options often spend millions trying to get out.
If you support this kind of mentallity, then I pity the company who you are painting into a corner.
Bzzzt. It's still smalltalk. Just like SQL, each vendor may have their own specific versions with minor code changes but the code is generally the same; in ther words, you will not have to completely recode it to have it work on other platforms... you just have to tweak it a little. Just as you would any C++ program, Java program, Python, PHP, Perl, or any other program.
There isn't a significant enough difference between the original smaltalk and this variant to qualify your answer and so while the INSTANCE of the code may not work on other machines, Smalltalk itself does and your code can be modified slightly in order to work on other machines without a revuild in another language.
Smalltalk was used by banks on old Unix machines. Care to try again?
That's not just internet. Oracle does not require a network connection to function. And the list goes beyond that; Photoshop, Flash, Illustrator, all work on Mac and Windows.
And to point out error in your argument, if you work in a steel mill that uses Windows, and you use windows apps, SQL server and build windows tools using Windows own language. That's swell and good. But many companies have lost millions just for doing that.
An example: When Code Red, Nimda and SQL Slammer hit in under 6 months time causing companies to lose massive amounts of information, their IT departments to crash and costing them millions. Many decided that they had enough and decided to switch. Some switched merely off of SQL Server while others switched off of Windows altogether. But because windows apps are not cross platform, they ended up having to spend millions trying to replace their infrastructure.
Now, let's say that steel mill decides they want a Linux server to handle things now. Those scripts are more than likely not going to work. You will have to recode them in another language.
Your development, infrastructure and so on all need maximum flexibility and maximum amount of options for success. But the more you limit those options, the greater chance you will paint yourself into a corner with no options left.
As an IT person, you will always want the maximum amount of options and by coding in a language that is not ready for the market yet, limits your options... both as a developer and as a business.
Mono is still Beta. I don't know of many developers that want to release apps using a tool that is still beta, do you?
Yeah it does... MONO is still only beta. Know of any software development companies who wants to develop applications in a language that is still beta on a platform? Not me.
Nope... alot of developers make their tools for multiple platforms. Here's the short list:
.NET is failing so miserably.
Oracle, DB2, Apache, Real Media Player, Quake, Microsoft Office (works on Mac), Mozilla, Numerous mail servers, ftp servers, telnet servers, development tools, etc etc etc.
There is a huge list. And do you know why? Because software companies want to make money. And providing their tools on many platforms increases their marketshare. So most software development companies are NOT going to build their software apps using a language that only works on one OS; they instead will uses development languages where their end result can be tweaked slightly to run on different platforms, rather than recoding their tools completely from scratch.
For instance, let's say Oracle decided to build everything using C#. Once they were finished (since MONO is still in beta and not completely tested) they would more than likely recode everything in C++. Is this something they want to do? Hell no. So why not code in C++ from the start... that way all you have to do is tweak it a little for each OS.
This is why
Not really. People have only shown a BETA version and Applescript which is a scripting language and not compiled. Being moronic would be assuming that that there is no truth in what is being said here and being forced to retaliate with 3rd grade school yard tactics as shown by a pre-grade school level intellect.
You knuckle dragging tactics intrigue me but the fact remains that should your cromagnon shaped skull be able to fit more information that just the scratching of your genitalia into it's cramped space, you will realize that 90% of all development languages are cross platform.
You'll realize this shortly after the paramedics arrive with the jaws of life to extract your head from your ass.
COBOL can run under windows. Just do a search on Google for Cobol and Windows.
And MONO is only Beta.
Sounds like an excuse to lock in developers.
Well unfortunately, comparing Java to C# on a Windows machine is like comparing a bird and a dolphins ability to swim in water; Several components of C# are integrated right into the operating system so naturally it's going to run faster on a windows machine. Compare C#, C++ and Java on machines where the components aren't integrated and then we will have a FAIR benchmark.
Oh wait! C# only runs on one operating system. Can you name any other development languages that only run on ONE OS, boys and girls? Neither can I.
Enron eh? A money grubbing company willing to screw over millions just to make a buck?
I think those kind of skils are just what Microsoft is looking for