Strange, I have used several different mp3 players over the years and I have yet to have one corrupt my operating system. While winamp might have crashed once or twice more often than my cd player does, and therefore is not "foolproof", I will notice that this has not once made me sit back and think over the whole idea of mp3s as simply not worth the trouble.
Of course, winamp doesn't try to keep me from listening to my music if I don't pay the monthly extorti...er.. subscription charge. It doesn't care where the mp3 came from, if its copyrighted or not, if its publicly endorsed or not. It just plays the silly thing. And it seems to work pretty well at that.
The big problem with all these subscription services is that they're too little too late. Back in 1997 they could have completely cornered the market. Could have been the first out of the gates with music over the internet and due to a lack of alternative options they would have had a LOT of subscribers. Instead, when these services were demanded, they decided to sit back and twiddle their thumbs worrying about how to prevent the rampant piracy that might result if they released such services... and the rampant piracy happened regardless, only they now have no hope of getting the worms back into the can. Now everybody has a taste of freedom. And I'm not talking about the beer flavored freedom here. Its the freedom to use the media you own as you wish.
So far, I've been able to download mp3s and listen to them forever, or burn them to cds (data or audio), send them to my friends, whatever I want. People are USED to this. Honest people are USED to this, but might still be willing to pay a reasonable monthly fee, especially if the industry made it easier than using the legally challenged services. Face it, napster might have been the most popular thing to come along in terms of obtaining music for free, but it still had its technical limitations. An industry endorsed solution without any barriers or restrictions could have stomped napster in its prime, but to do so, people would still have to have complete control over what they've downloaded. And the RIAA and other interested parties just couldn't handle that.
Well, so napster might be off the table, and those evil people distributing lyrics might have been silenced. But consumer demand is a funny thing. They have certain expectations now. And they WILL get what they want, despite how much effort they have to invest and how many laws they have to break to accomplish it. Even in some draconian scenario where you manage to completely legislate all your competition off the internet, a parallel internet could very well arise behind you, competely beyond yours or anyone else's control, and where everything would flow freely. And you would only have yourself to blame for it.
Although this doesn't really do justice to the situation.. does anyone think that crippling cds in this matter is similiarly effective to irradiating mail to kill the anthrax? Sure.. I might be safe from the evil of the world afterwards, but I'll end up with something thats charred and melted.
Even with electronics that use a fraction of what today's phones use, to reduce the size of the phone will reduce the size of the battery you can carry with it. A ring phone can't feasibly hold more than a watch battery.
RCA capable capture cards (winTV and others with the BT848) are about $25 now. All you need then
is practically any security camera. If you don't
mind investing in a card for each camera, multiplexing becomes trivial. Since they're PCI,
4-5 per computer is as good as you're going to get, but you can use low end pentium systems for the capturing easily enough.
Then you can do several frame captures per second easily enough if you want to store frames, or you can do realtime mpeg encoding. At 5 fps, with full color/sound, you're talking a little under 100 megs an hour per source when recording at 320x240. And this is without scaling down the quality any.
good point. I'll make sure not to implement any sounds that could be used to make an affirmative statement.
Although, I'm not really concerned about it. Unless the telemarketer is selling a service they can directly charge my phone number for, there's not a lot they can do in my case. No telemarketer who ever calls my number has my name or address, as I never give out the number to anyone, and its unlisted.
Still, considering my conversation may be recorded, I'm willing to bet theirs will be too, so its a good point to avoid those potential snafu's.
I'm already working on a prototype.. At first its just going to be wired into the soundcard. I have a line I never use for actual incoming phone calls and I never give out the number to, so everyone that calls is either a wrong number or a telemarketer, so I plan to put it on there and just answer everything.
I should have something working in a week or so.
I just thought of the idea 2 days ago.
If people work as telemarketers, they're contributing to the problem. They don't HAVE to be telemarketers. And if they're getting paid minimum wage anyways, what do they care if they get stuck on a phone call for years. If they work on commission, then by getting a severe cut in pay they might start thinking that telemarketing isn't a worthwhile profession. If nobody is there to man the phones, that solves the problem.
And remember, going after the top will affect the "lowly" telemarkters at the bottom too. I'm not really all that concerned about making life difficult for those who intentionally join a profession that by its very nature annoys people. And telemarketers KNOW that they annoy people. If they don't know that going into the job, they'll figure it out in the first hour. They might be able to make some good money at it. Great. But in that profession it comes with a price. That price is sometimes they're going to piss people off and those people might choose to take out their anger in creative, yet harmless ways.
And you're right about saying that putting stables in tax returns is stupid. Not because it annoys the workers at the other end, but because the IRS is an organization you don't really want to piss off. I don't have the same concern for telemarketing organizations.
This is an idea I'm working on to help reduce telemarking calls.
I'm envisioning a simple device that sits on your phone line. When a telemarketer calls you, as soon as you realize its a telemarketer, you activate the unit and hang up. The device takes
over after that.
While the telemarketer is talking, the device will play back every few seconds any of about 20 different small murmers "hmmm" "uh huh" "yeah" "interesting" etc. Then when the telemarketer stops talking, the device will detect the drop in audio and will play back one of several segue phrases "That sounds very interesting, could you tell me more" "Are you offering any other services?" "How much does all of this cost?" "Could you go over all that again so I can take notes?" "I've been interested in this very thing, but I need to make sure its safe. Could you tell me all the safety standards you stand to?" "Could you hold on for a couple minutes, I have something on the stove. DON'T LEAVE!" And so on.
Telemarketers are mostly script readers. The idea will to be to ask vague questions that will cause them to find the most appropriate script. And just keep them going for a LONG time. When the phone line finally goes dead, the device will hang up automatically. Maybe keep track of the longest call. Maybe record them too. The possibilities are endless!
This device probably wouldn't cost more than $20 to manufacture and is the perfect way to keep telemarketers busy when they call you at dinner. Not only will you be able to eat with a smug grin on your face, any other incoming calls will be blocked by the lively conversation. You'll be assured of a meal in peace.
The only spammer I would trust is a spammer that would never send me spam because I never intentionally informed said spammer than I wanted to receive email from him, in which case, it wouldn't be spam.
Damn... I think I just logically determined that spammers serve no useful purpose in this world.
And since Trillian is able to keep up within a day's notice, I can't see how the efforts on AOL's part are making any significant dent.
Of course, thats not really the issue here. But its better they do it this way than sue competitors. Not to say thats not an option they're reserving for the future.
500 years with the current rate of growth isn't unreasonable. Remember, the colonists already have all the necessary technology to construct and build spaceships necessary to make the next leg of the journey. 500 years is about how long that civilization would take before making the next move. The planet may not be fully colonized by then. It wouldn't have to be. Its enough time to establish a base of operations and a thriving economy.
That doesn't mean that they always would make the next step. There's always going to be those cultures that decide to withdrawl from the rest of the galaxy and live on their own. But there's no reason it COULDN'T happen in that amount of time.
Planets have more available resources than space stations.
Planets with a proper ecosystem naturally recycle the elements needed for life, mainly in our case, Oxygen and water.
While a 6 mile wide asteroid can cause serious damage to both space stations and planets, planets are pretty damn impervious to baseball sized rocks (of which in space there are many many more) where space stations can be quite devestated by them.
The magnetic fields and atmosphere of planets filter out a lot of dangerous radiation which space stations need to take special care with.
Actually, we'll probably FIND one in less than 20 years. It'll probably take just as long again to confirm that its actually habitable and to what extent it might already be inhabited.
Its the next leg of evolution, where we actually manage to amble our way across lightyears to get there. THAT... may take a significant fraction of the rest of civilization as we know it. And while it may take thousands of years to make that next huge step, the planet will be around for billions more yet.
But not the worlds that have developed life or advanced civilizations. There's a big difference.
Its also fair to wonder, how many spacefaring civilizations are there? By that I don't mean, how many have launched someone into space, but how many have actually colonized worlds outside of their home solar system?
It has been shown, that given extremely slow, but reasonable travel times between stars, and assuming it would take 500 years (for an already technologically advanced society) to develop a world and the rest of the solar system, then advance on to the next one. With this in mind, such a civilization would only require about 3 million years to completely colonize the galaxy. Considering the billions of years the galaxy has existed, 3 million years is but a brief moment in time. If it was going to happen, it would have already happened.
Now consider our own situation. We're 4.3 light years from the nearest star. We're in the perfect location to drop off a few test subjects (humans with no technological knowledge) and see what happens. It would take a long time before they'd discover what really happened. And others could observe and reflect in that time.
will be when someone "discovers" one of the fake sites, submits it to slashdot, it gets posted (of course), and the comments start rolling in.
How long will it take before someone comments that its fake. We're quick to point out Xbox emulator fakes when we see them, but would we necessarily discover the nonexistance of a company when its intent is to defraud and not just to boost the false ego of a few misguided geeks.
So yeah, go find them. And when you find one, don't claim you found one, submit it to slashdot instead. Take the joke all the way!:)
The robots used in these games are little more than glorified RC cars. Next stage would be to get the bots completely computer controlled. Of course, that could be rather dangerous. The simple directive, "Kill anything that moves" could have hazardous consequences if the arena boundaries are somehow blurred.
With 120 gig drives, your total cost for a 1 TB array would be about $2500. With 4 IDE ports and a large enough case, you could get all that into one box, then network the beastie.
Now I just need to find $2500. I know I won't have a problem filling it.
Or do they mean no FUNCTIONAL onboard steering system? I don't know of many satellites that don't include manuvering thrusters. Orbits decay naturally and require slight adjustments over time.
Of course, it WAS described as defunct, so I suppose I can give them some leeway on that.
I live in Plano, TX and all the online grocery stores that used to operate in this area have gone the way of the rest of the dotcoms. However, before the downfall, I had started designing a system that would automate my grocery shopping by tracking what I had in stock and based on the rate I consume things. On a weekly basis I would plan my menus so the program knew what was needed and would order whatever wasn't available. Go to http://206.54.177.105 and click on Inventory to see the current status. Items are entered and removed from the inventory by using a retail barcode scanner.
Since the online grocery stores are now gone, I can't really get any use of out it and the best I can do now is to print out shopping lists, so I've kinda put the project on the back burner. But had those companies prevailed I believe this setup would have made a nice addition to any home automation system by making shopping an almost transparent process.
Why does sony even care? I mean, maybe they're hoping for a long history of upgrades in the future that they can charge end users for, but in the end, if there is other software available for AIBO, people will still have to buy the product to use them. And if more poeple are buying AIBO's so they can use the hack than those who are purchasing it for the original intent, WHO CARES!
Most of the players aren't trading/selling players and therefore aren't earning money from the game. The small percentage that IS making the money is making a LOT of money from it apparently to average out to around $2000 a year.
However, in any economy, per capita INCOME is not the only figure you have to take into consideration. You need to understand that while some people earn money from the selling of accounts, others have to purchase those accounts and unless they purchased the account with money made from trading accounts, then you don't have a closed economy.
To be considered a true economy, there must be a way for Everquest to actually GENERATE wealth. It needs to create something such that the value of the products and services it offers grows completely from within its own environment.
Players (your workers, if you will) need to accomplish something by their gameplay that increases the overall wealth of the system such that the lifestyle of the players improves. However, the best Everquest can be attributed to is the art industry. People buy and sell art, but art alone can't sustain an economy, unless you have a country that only produces art and external counties provide all other basic resources in exchange for the art.
If they overadvertise and the network becomes clogged and people decide that due to insufficient bandwidth and excessive bottlenecks they don't NEED the services that badly, it could make getting it started more difficult. Rather they slowly introduce it, ramp it up slowly. Build the network as they go.
DSL had similar problems. The demand was greater than the infrastructure could handle, and service (technical and customer) suffered as a result, and in some cases, it still does. They might be trying to avoid a similar problem.
Of course, I haven't known Verizon and GTE before that of going out of their way to avoid problems. The best screwup I remember, is when they cut off the phone service for my entire city (Plano, TX ~ 200,000 people) for 8 hours. Cellular service and payphones were also out of commission. The police had an officer stationed at every major street corner in case of emergencies since 911 wasn't functional. I had to drive 5 miles just to find a working payphone to call someone from. This happened about 2 years ago, fyi.
Slashdot Mirror
Strange, I have used several different mp3 players over the years and I have yet to have one corrupt my operating system. While winamp might have crashed once or twice more often than my cd player does, and therefore is not "foolproof", I will notice that this has not once made me sit back and think over the whole idea of mp3s as simply not worth the trouble.
Of course, winamp doesn't try to keep me from listening to my music if I don't pay the monthly extorti...er.. subscription charge. It doesn't care where the mp3 came from, if its copyrighted or not, if its publicly endorsed or not. It just plays the silly thing. And it seems to work pretty well at that.
The big problem with all these subscription services is that they're too little too late. Back in 1997 they could have completely cornered the market. Could have been the first out of the gates with music over the internet and due to a lack of alternative options they would have had a LOT of subscribers. Instead, when these services were demanded, they decided to sit back and twiddle their thumbs worrying about how to prevent the rampant piracy that might result if they released such services... and the rampant piracy happened regardless, only they now have no hope of getting the worms back into the can. Now everybody has a taste of freedom. And I'm not talking about the beer flavored freedom here. Its the freedom to use the media you own as you wish.
So far, I've been able to download mp3s and listen to them forever, or burn them to cds (data or audio), send them to my friends, whatever I want. People are USED to this. Honest people are USED to this, but might still be willing to pay a reasonable monthly fee, especially if the industry made it easier than using the legally challenged services. Face it, napster might have been the most popular thing to come along in terms of obtaining music for free, but it still had its technical limitations. An industry endorsed solution without any barriers or restrictions could have stomped napster in its prime, but to do so, people would still have to have complete control over what they've downloaded. And the RIAA and other interested parties just couldn't handle that.
Well, so napster might be off the table, and those evil people distributing lyrics might have been silenced. But consumer demand is a funny thing. They have certain expectations now. And they WILL get what they want, despite how much effort they have to invest and how many laws they have to break to accomplish it. Even in some draconian scenario where you manage to completely legislate all your competition off the internet, a parallel internet could very well arise behind you, competely beyond yours or anyone else's control, and where everything would flow freely. And you would only have yourself to blame for it.
So tread lightly.
-Restil
Although this doesn't really do justice to the situation.. does anyone think that crippling cds in this matter is similiarly effective to irradiating mail to kill the anthrax? Sure.. I might be safe from the evil of the world afterwards, but I'll end up with something thats charred and melted.
-Restil
Another geek project I'll have to add to the list of things I HAVE to do to feel complete. *sigh*
:)
Damn you slashdot!
-Restil
Even with electronics that use a fraction of what today's phones use, to reduce the size of the phone will reduce the size of the battery you can carry with it. A ring phone can't feasibly hold more than a watch battery.
-Restil
you can use 4 bt848 drivers on linux. Its windows that has the limitiation.
-Restil
RCA capable capture cards (winTV and others with the BT848) are about $25 now. All you need then
is practically any security camera. If you don't
mind investing in a card for each camera, multiplexing becomes trivial. Since they're PCI,
4-5 per computer is as good as you're going to get, but you can use low end pentium systems for the capturing easily enough.
Then you can do several frame captures per second easily enough if you want to store frames, or you can do realtime mpeg encoding. At 5 fps, with full color/sound, you're talking a little under 100 megs an hour per source when recording at 320x240. And this is without scaling down the quality any.
-Restil
good point. I'll make sure not to implement any sounds that could be used to make an affirmative statement.
Although, I'm not really concerned about it. Unless the telemarketer is selling a service they can directly charge my phone number for, there's not a lot they can do in my case. No telemarketer who ever calls my number has my name or address, as I never give out the number to anyone, and its unlisted.
Still, considering my conversation may be recorded, I'm willing to bet theirs will be too, so its a good point to avoid those potential snafu's.
-Restil
So true. The customer base for prostitution and crack dealing actually WANT the services they're consuming. Telemarketers can't make the same claim.
-Restil
I'm already working on a prototype.. At first its just going to be wired into the soundcard. I have a line I never use for actual incoming phone calls and I never give out the number to, so everyone that calls is either a wrong number or a telemarketer, so I plan to put it on there and just answer everything.
I should have something working in a week or so.
I just thought of the idea 2 days ago.
-Restil
If people work as telemarketers, they're contributing to the problem. They don't HAVE to be telemarketers. And if they're getting paid minimum wage anyways, what do they care if they get stuck on a phone call for years. If they work on commission, then by getting a severe cut in pay they might start thinking that telemarketing isn't a worthwhile profession. If nobody is there to man the phones, that solves the problem.
And remember, going after the top will affect the "lowly" telemarkters at the bottom too. I'm not really all that concerned about making life difficult for those who intentionally join a profession that by its very nature annoys people. And telemarketers KNOW that they annoy people. If they don't know that going into the job, they'll figure it out in the first hour. They might be able to make some good money at it. Great. But in that profession it comes with a price. That price is sometimes they're going to piss people off and those people might choose to take out their anger in creative, yet harmless ways.
And you're right about saying that putting stables in tax returns is stupid. Not because it annoys the workers at the other end, but because the IRS is an organization you don't really want to piss off. I don't have the same concern for telemarketing organizations.
-Restil
This is an idea I'm working on to help reduce telemarking calls.
I'm envisioning a simple device that sits on your phone line. When a telemarketer calls you, as soon as you realize its a telemarketer, you activate the unit and hang up. The device takes
over after that.
While the telemarketer is talking, the device will play back every few seconds any of about 20 different small murmers "hmmm" "uh huh" "yeah" "interesting" etc. Then when the telemarketer stops talking, the device will detect the drop in audio and will play back one of several segue phrases "That sounds very interesting, could you tell me more" "Are you offering any other services?" "How much does all of this cost?" "Could you go over all that again so I can take notes?" "I've been interested in this very thing, but I need to make sure its safe. Could you tell me all the safety standards you stand to?" "Could you hold on for a couple minutes, I have something on the stove. DON'T LEAVE!" And so on.
Telemarketers are mostly script readers. The idea will to be to ask vague questions that will cause them to find the most appropriate script. And just keep them going for a LONG time. When the phone line finally goes dead, the device will hang up automatically. Maybe keep track of the longest call. Maybe record them too. The possibilities are endless!
This device probably wouldn't cost more than $20 to manufacture and is the perfect way to keep telemarketers busy when they call you at dinner. Not only will you be able to eat with a smug grin on your face, any other incoming calls will be blocked by the lively conversation. You'll be assured of a meal in peace.
-Restil
"Trusted Spammer" is an oxymoron.
The only spammer I would trust is a spammer that would never send me spam because I never intentionally informed said spammer than I wanted to receive email from him, in which case, it wouldn't be spam.
Damn... I think I just logically determined that spammers serve no useful purpose in this world.
What do you think?
-Restil
And since Trillian is able to keep up within a day's notice, I can't see how the efforts on AOL's part are making any significant dent.
Of course, thats not really the issue here. But its better they do it this way than sue competitors. Not to say thats not an option they're reserving for the future.
-Restil
500 years with the current rate of growth isn't unreasonable. Remember, the colonists already have all the necessary technology to construct and build spaceships necessary to make the next leg of the journey. 500 years is about how long that civilization would take before making the next move. The planet may not be fully colonized by then. It wouldn't have to be. Its enough time to establish a base of operations and a thriving economy.
That doesn't mean that they always would make the next step. There's always going to be those cultures that decide to withdrawl from the rest of the galaxy and live on their own. But there's no reason it COULDN'T happen in that amount of time.
-Restil
Planets are much larger than space stations.
:)
Planets have more available resources than space stations.
Planets with a proper ecosystem naturally recycle the elements needed for life, mainly in our case, Oxygen and water.
While a 6 mile wide asteroid can cause serious damage to both space stations and planets, planets are pretty damn impervious to baseball sized rocks (of which in space there are many many more) where space stations can be quite devestated by them.
The magnetic fields and atmosphere of planets filter out a lot of dangerous radiation which space stations need to take special care with.
Planets aren't going anywhere quite yet I feel.
-Restil
Actually, we'll probably FIND one in less than 20 years. It'll probably take just as long again to confirm that its actually habitable and to what extent it might already be inhabited.
Its the next leg of evolution, where we actually manage to amble our way across lightyears to get there. THAT... may take a significant fraction of the rest of civilization as we know it. And while it may take thousands of years to make that next huge step, the planet will be around for billions more yet.
-Restil
But not the worlds that have developed life or advanced civilizations. There's a big difference.
Its also fair to wonder, how many spacefaring civilizations are there? By that I don't mean, how many have launched someone into space, but how many have actually colonized worlds outside of their home solar system?
It has been shown, that given extremely slow, but reasonable travel times between stars, and assuming it would take 500 years (for an already technologically advanced society) to develop a world and the rest of the solar system, then advance on to the next one. With this in mind, such a civilization would only require about 3 million years to completely colonize the galaxy. Considering the billions of years the galaxy has existed, 3 million years is but a brief moment in time. If it was going to happen, it would have already happened.
Now consider our own situation. We're 4.3 light years from the nearest star. We're in the perfect location to drop off a few test subjects (humans with no technological knowledge) and see what happens. It would take a long time before they'd discover what really happened. And others could observe and reflect in that time.
-Restil
will be when someone "discovers" one of the fake sites, submits it to slashdot, it gets posted (of course), and the comments start rolling in.
:)
How long will it take before someone comments that its fake. We're quick to point out Xbox emulator fakes when we see them, but would we necessarily discover the nonexistance of a company when its intent is to defraud and not just to boost the false ego of a few misguided geeks.
So yeah, go find them. And when you find one, don't claim you found one, submit it to slashdot instead. Take the joke all the way!
-Restil
The robots used in these games are little more than glorified RC cars. Next stage would be to get the bots completely computer controlled. Of course, that could be rather dangerous. The simple directive, "Kill anything that moves" could have hazardous consequences if the arena boundaries are somehow blurred.
-Restil
With 120 gig drives, your total cost for a 1 TB array would be about $2500. With 4 IDE ports and a large enough case, you could get all that into one box, then network the beastie.
Now I just need to find $2500. I know I won't have a problem filling it.
-Restil
Or do they mean no FUNCTIONAL onboard steering system? I don't know of many satellites that don't include manuvering thrusters. Orbits decay naturally and require slight adjustments over time.
Of course, it WAS described as defunct, so I suppose I can give them some leeway on that.
-Restil
I live in Plano, TX and all the online grocery stores that used to operate in this area have gone the way of the rest of the dotcoms. However, before the downfall, I had started designing a system that would automate my grocery shopping by tracking what I had in stock and based on the rate I consume things. On a weekly basis I would plan my menus so the program knew what was needed and would order whatever wasn't available. Go to http://206.54.177.105 and click on Inventory to see the current status. Items are entered and removed from the inventory by using a retail barcode scanner.
Since the online grocery stores are now gone, I can't really get any use of out it and the best I can do now is to print out shopping lists, so I've kinda put the project on the back burner. But had those companies prevailed I believe this setup would have made a nice addition to any home automation system by making shopping an almost transparent process.
-Restil
Why does sony even care? I mean, maybe they're hoping for a long history of upgrades in the future that they can charge end users for, but in the end, if there is other software available for AIBO, people will still have to buy the product to use them. And if more poeple are buying AIBO's so they can use the hack than those who are purchasing it for the original intent, WHO CARES!
Sony still gets their money from it.
-Restil
Most of the players aren't trading/selling players and therefore aren't earning money from the game. The small percentage that IS making the money is making a LOT of money from it apparently to average out to around $2000 a year.
However, in any economy, per capita INCOME is not the only figure you have to take into consideration. You need to understand that while some people earn money from the selling of accounts, others have to purchase those accounts and unless they purchased the account with money made from trading accounts, then you don't have a closed economy.
To be considered a true economy, there must be a way for Everquest to actually GENERATE wealth. It needs to create something such that the value of the products and services it offers grows completely from within its own environment.
Players (your workers, if you will) need to accomplish something by their gameplay that increases the overall wealth of the system such that the lifestyle of the players improves. However, the best Everquest can be attributed to is the art industry. People buy and sell art, but art alone can't sustain an economy, unless you have a country that only produces art and external counties provide all other basic resources in exchange for the art.
-Restil
If they overadvertise and the network becomes clogged and people decide that due to insufficient bandwidth and excessive bottlenecks they don't NEED the services that badly, it could make getting it started more difficult. Rather they slowly introduce it, ramp it up slowly. Build the network as they go.
:)
DSL had similar problems. The demand was greater than the infrastructure could handle, and service (technical and customer) suffered as a result, and in some cases, it still does. They might be trying to avoid a similar problem.
Of course, I haven't known Verizon and GTE before that of going out of their way to avoid problems. The best screwup I remember, is when they cut off the phone service for my entire city (Plano, TX ~ 200,000 people) for 8 hours. Cellular service and payphones were also out of commission. The police had an officer stationed at every major street corner in case of emergencies since 911 wasn't functional. I had to drive 5 miles just to find a working payphone to call someone from. This happened about 2 years ago, fyi.
That was a fun day.
-Restil