Slashdot Mirror
Slashback: Cheats, Entries, Loki
From the email I've gotten on it, it seems like a whole passel of schools have at least a homegrown solution to CS cheats.
Perhaps the cute dog will end up changing Sony's stance? CodeMonkey555 writes "Here is a story that chronicles Sony's little foray into the DMCA with a hacker who added software for the Aibo robot."
It's nice to see that publications like SciAm are following the results and consequences of the DMCA.
Care to help edit an online software reference? SteveMallett writes "We at Open Source Directory (OSD) have opened the directory to volunteer editors now that we've given app authors and maintainer's a good chance to start and/or maintain their own listings.
Those interested may wish to visit our volunteer page which outlines what we're looking for. Don't worry. We're not that picky. The outline includes guidelines and tips for being a volunteer. Unlike dmoz, which has volunteer editors, we _will_ delete unupdated or neglected editor work in accordance to our Social Contract.
We hope that editors will help fill in the missing apps, take over those listings that they can do a better job of or have become neglected, and find those diamonds in the rough."
See our earlier post about the project if you're not sure what this is about.
Yes, someone has to read all those emails. kcurtis writes "Boston.com's tech site has this AP article about the large response to the Court's request for comment on the MS case's proposed settlement."
Now all they need is a trowel with an emblazoned smiley. enigma48 writes "Looks like the C'T article a little while ago about Smoothwall prompted some changes after all. Juergen Schmidt even gets a little credit. Shadow passwords are now in, but it looks like the ppp secrets file is still open (they describe it as being a "non-vulnerability"). A-patchin' I will go, a-patchin' I will go..."
So you don't have to stop playing your games ... Scott Draeker of Loki has some encouraging words for those who thought the announced (upcoming) closure of Loki would mean the loss of Loki's code and community. Draeker sent word of this a few days ago, but here are more details.
He writes:
"We have prepared tarballs of the public CVS, FAQs, mailing list archives, demos and Loki_Update which will be available for people to host. That's exactly what's going on with icculus.org.The official repository will be hosted by the SEUL group at MIT. Once that site is set up we'll point the loki domains that direction. They'll also be adding some Loki projects to public CVS which were never completed."
It seems that CmdrTaco and co. are the "benevolent dictators" and don't seem to mind that people are peeved that they are the hidden hand behind the moderation system.
It seems ubsurd to me that just because the aibo has encrytion protecting the binaries, it is illigal to reverse engineer it.
I guess this is old news...
They allready have those dolls that "go tinkle". How long until Sony develops "'Lil McScoopScoop".
"Teaches kids to clean up after their pets without really cleaning up!"
I can just see that massivechinned and lipped ron of ronco pimping it now.
Excuse me while I cry myself to sleep.
Or does the Loki email imply the release of Loki game source code? And how much of it?
This is probably wishful thinking, of course it is, but the impact it would have on the Linux gaming world would be awesome. Heh, Loki would do more for Linux gaming dead that it ever did alive...
Ohh well, it's only karma..
Thanks for the comments, Bill.
Can you hack an AIBO to make it hump people's legs, or micturate on their shoes?
We would have taken a lot longer to develop: Rockets Jet Engines Delta wing planes Algebra and so on...
CDE open sourced! https://sourceforge.net/projects/cdesktopenv/
It seems interesting to me that the DMCA allows no condition of fair use when it comes to breaking encryption on purchases - at least, this is how the article presents it.
Notice that Aibopet never actually uses the code within the Aibo to make a profit. Someone could argue, technically, that he uses it to make a name for himself, but he hardly even does that. I think it's interesting that Sony would choose to pursue legal action on the basis that the code was cracked, not that something illegal was done with the code.
This is something like purchasing a refrigerator, dismantling it, using the fan to cool yourself, and using the shelves inside to hold books. Sure, it wasn't the intended use of the product, but who's the seller to determine the intended use and then legally enforce that use? Encryption was brought about for a variety of reasons, but one of the reasons wasn't to make sure that a product was used in a specific way - rather, it's primary ability is to keep other people from making a profit on someone else's ideas.
As long as Aibopet isn;t doing that, I don't really understand Sony's original position on the issue.
I don't quite understand. Is Loki putting the full version of all their games in CVS, or just the demos?
ahh... good, the last post on "CS anti-cheating" spawned way too many posts about Counter-Strike...
I wonder if a projection exists in the corporate organs of Sony that demonstrates how much loss of revenue and market share Sony Consumer Electronics Division stands to loose in the next five years thanks to the aggressive lobbying, litigation and posturing of the Sony media and content creation divisions.
It just seems to me that the money in consumer electronics is going to go to companies like Phillips and other (smaller) manufacturers that help consumers exploit and enjoy content any damn way they want.
Sony makes some marvelous and high quality components and gadgets, but revenue will go to the companies that offer devices that accommodate the way consumers want to use them, rather then devices that will accommodate the way a company wants to use consumers.
Trying to have a market created and tamed through legislation and ill conceived laws damn well should torpedo your empire.
I'm sorry but Linux should and does perform at equal or better than NT in "almost" every situation. My instinct tells me either you configured your systems extradinarily poorly, or you used Linux in an application it is poorly suited for.
All you are doing is starting a flame war. Does it occur to you that desprite your confidence in your programming skills, you might not have any idea what you are actually doing.
Morons like him, maintain monopolies...
Why does sony even care? I mean, maybe they're hoping for a long history of upgrades in the future that they can charge end users for, but in the end, if there is other software available for AIBO, people will still have to buy the product to use them. And if more poeple are buying AIBO's so they can use the hack than those who are purchasing it for the original intent, WHO CARES!
Sony still gets their money from it.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Imagine a whole army of renegade AIBOs released upon Sony's corporate headquarters, indiscriminantly humping and micturating all over everything in they're path.
If the illegality is in breaking the encryption, could some secure 3rd party break the encryption and send me the results. Posetion of cracked data is not an offence, is it? Maybe some Ukranian crack-boy could make a living cracking the encryption on popular items and then selling the results back into the US. What is anybody going to do if I release some code for something, based on publicly available specs. (Even if those specs are the result of some work done elsewhere that couldn't be done here.) Isn't that how PC cloning got started with Clean Room reverse engineering?
"Meanwhile, back in America, some owners delight in replacing Aibo's soothing beeps with the voice of Cartman, the potty-mouthed South Park character. "
I can see it now.
Me: Fetch fido
dog: AAaaaah my ass is on fire!!
-THIS SPACE FOR RENT!
actually, all of it is made up, ive seen that identical post about 50 times
I didn't think it was physically possible, but this both sucks and blows - Bart Simpson
I kinda of figured it is a fake. But it is important to seriously address such posts. Many people thinking about trying Linux research on Linux user sites such as /. It certainly is possible that Windows Nt can outperform Linux, in some (mis)configurations.
It's just "computer class cheating."
Read on below for the details! Jon Masters was one of the many to write in after recent articles about automated cheat-detection employed in undergraduate CS classes to catch plagiarists. "Hi, cheat detection is hardly new.
This isn't even consistent. It's either "cheat-detection" or "cheat detection." I would advise the latter.
For example The University Of Nottingham have developed an automated marking/plagarism detection system as part of their CourseMaster software.
Insert a comma after "example." It should be "the University of Nottingham has."
Personally I don't agree with automated assessment in general, however plagarism detection can be useful."
Insert commas after "Personally" and "however." Change "can" to "would."
From the email I've gotten on it, it seems like a whole passel of schools have at least a homegrown solution to CS cheats.
That's either "e-mail" or "Email."
[...] SteveMallett writes "We at Open Source Directory (OSD) have opened the directory to volunteer editors now that we've given app authors and maintainer's a good chance to start and/or maintain their own listings.
That should be "maintainers." Don't use the horrible formation "and/or." The word "or" is sufficiently ambiguous.
Unlike dmoz, which has volunteer editors, we _will_ delete unupdated or neglected editor work in accordance to our Social Contract.
Capitalize "DMOZ." The word "unupdated," is, IMNSHO, a monstrosity. How about "out of date?"
We hope that editors will help fill in the missing apps, take over those listings that they can do a better job of or have become neglected, and find those diamonds in the rough."
At this point, the language has become so bad that it is impossible to understand what is being said.
Yes, someone has to read all those emails.
It's a personal decision now on whether "e-mail" is in plural form without the suffix "s," but it simply cannot be written as "emails." If you add the "s," it's either "e-mails" or "Emails."
kcurtis writes "Boston.com's tech site has this AP article about the large response to the Court's request for comment on the MS case's proposed settlement."
As journalists, you need to be more careful in your use of the word "court." Either say "the court request," or "the United States District Court's request." (I'm not sure which court we are talking about here, so I guessed.) Regarding style, you should make it clearer who proposed the settlement.
[...]Shadow passwords are now in, but it looks like the ppp secrets file is still open (they describe it as being a "non-vulnerability").
Capitalize "PPP." Turn the words in parentheses into a different sentence.
[...] Once that site is set up we'll point the loki domains that direction. They'll also be adding some Loki projects to public CVS which were never completed."
Be consistent. Always capitalize "Loki."
Here's to a better Slashdot. The Slashdot editors would do well to purchase a copy of Garner's "Modern American Usage." It's a fine reference book.
BTW, my caustic comments are all addressed to Slashdot's editors, and not to submitters. It's Slashdot's responsibility to use good language.
I am not a lawyer. Do not take my words as legal advice. If you need legal advice, consult an attorney.
Even if Loki donates all the code to the community. The community cannot port games. Since the game publisher needs a company to license the code under some contract.
..
I hope another company picks up everything from Loki. Does all the contract/licensing stuff, but unlike Loki try and make use of volunteer work from the community to save money. I am willing to provide few hours of my time, for getting games on Linux and I sure hope there will be others.
I am aware of the issues of volunteer work vs full time employees. The contarct/licensing issues of closed source games. Maybe its all just wishfull thinking. Sigh
The Boston article is ambiguous as to whether the complete comments that the public sent in will be available online.
I, for one, believe that reading those comments would be a very instructive exercise.
It seems reasonable to expect that comments solicited online should be published online and not just printed onto thin paper in 3-point type and filed in boxes in the storage room of a courthouse somewhere.
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
"Microsoft and its critics both worked to ensure their views were reflected in the comments. Americans for Technology Leadership, made up of Microsoft and several others friendly to the software giant, offered letter writers extra chances to win a handheld computer."
Elsewhere, it mentions other free computers given out, but says that they always do that at meetings...
you did WHAT with gcc 3.1?!?!?!?
no. no no no no no!
you use the STABLE gcc and compile WITHOUT the unstable binary optimizations and you'll have a *far* more stable server environment that will STILL outperform win2k.
ALSO, your allegation about a lack of smp support is flat wrong, as well as the lack of journaled filesystem support; although reiserfs may (i don't remember) not have been in the kernel at that time, it certainly was stable, and if you're smart enough to go jerking around with gcc as you say you did (i'm just gonna assume for the sake of this argument that you did that part correctly) then you certainly should have been smart enough to go to freshmeat to get the reiserfs stuff.
and, btw: i could load any of a number of beta software programs onto a win2k box and have it crashing left and right in short order, without nearly as useful error information at that.
(note to moderators: at least READ the parent post before you mod me down. christ save the linux community from idiots like this.)
So, how long till the damn links are fixed?
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
So M$ are offering substantial *prizes* for people who write in to support their cause in this public comment period? How can this possibly be legal? Isn't it akin to bribing a witness or something?
Is there a lawyer in the house?
Imagine a BeoWOLF Cluster of THESE!!!
but its demise forces developers to make their own Linux binaries if Linux binaries are to exist. This would (hopefully) make more developers port the code themselves, and keep the Linux gaming industry alive (unless another company like Loki starts up, in fact this may be better in the short run as then all of the porting knowledge would be concentrated in this company and allow them to make better ports)
"It's even worse if you're locked into a proprietary operating system." -http://www.wehavethewayout.com/scale.asp?rew=0
I hope the open source directory takes off and actually takes in editors. I applied to DMOZ for a not too large category and got an instant rejection saying new editors should apply for a smaller category. Ok, I reapplied on for a much smaller category. That was about 2 months ago. (Both categories needed an editor, BADLY). Still haven't heard back. I begin to wonder if DMOZ is even using editors anymore.
And what exactly would Point-Of-Sale hardware be doing in his Mom's basement?
Check the name by the door...
Cartman, Miss.
(for those interested, the stunning ms roe subsequently left scotland in a huff)
Most owners treat their Aibo affectionately, as they would a real pet. When Aibos break down, we treat them at our 'clinic.'
I found Mercerism easier to swallow than a populace doting on their robotic pets, but I must now admit that PKD was right.
[Yes, I know that this wasn't the *main* thrust of the article -- it just continues to amaze me. Hack value, yes, but pet, no.]
I hate these stickers after a really bad experience with a case power supply.
One day, my trusty case power supply just gave up on me. "Oh well," I thought, "Must have blown a fuse." (I was pulling some serious power through the poor thing.)
So with gleeful abandon I grabbed the nearest sharp, pointy tool and began to remove screws. I carefully grounded and opened up the power supply to change the fuse- Lo And Behold, the stupid thing was soldered in place!
I hope this short, true satire shows why I distrust any company handing me the black box syndrome. If you don't want me inquiring as to how it works, don't sell/rent/loan it to me; and don't think strange headed screws are a detterent- I just love a challenge >:-). Furthermore, never scream at me (even in legalese) about how I wasn't supposed to look inside- you aren't supposed to sell me junk. (There may be no legal constraint, but doing so is a good way to get boycotted. Just ask Microsoft, Universal Music, or Intel: they top my list.)
Do you like Japanese imports?
anyone even a child can install linux correctly an to the point that it outperforms any Microsoft product. My 9 year old installed redhat 7.2 on her own.
i reccomend to ignore these people, as they are simply liars and FUD makers.
Which does nothing but make Microsoft users look like un-educated liars that fabricate stories for no reason. It's sad, as I am sure that man many microsoft users are smart but un-informed.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Is there any possibility that another gaming house might buy the Loki ports? It is indeed a fantasy to expect that code to be open sourced but it would be a shame if it died entirely. Perhaps a publisher with a better business model can get some milage out of them.
and have it hump your poodle.
Does your purchase of a "product" confer "ownership" or "license"?
I'm completely serious. The basis of property and income taxes is that the land or your labor isn't yours, you're just renting it from the government.
As with the Furbie example, the makers decided to treat "purchase" as "ownership". Sony, the RIAA, the DMCA, Microsoft, all consider "purchase" to be only a limited license to use the product.
Subject, of course, to change without notice by the license holder.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
And why, Mr. Smarty Pants?
Now if it wasn't the Open Source Directory, I'd say it sounded like one of those "we-want-you-to-help-build-our-site-for-free-and-t hen-charge-you-for-looking-at-the-content-when-the -site-gets-big-enough" deals.
Some people say that the internet is all about money these days(or maybe the lack of) but I think that the spirit of helping each other still is there. You just have to pick our work and that one is not a bad choice.
Hi,
One of the reasons that I submitted the link to the software used at my University was to point out how routine this kind of thing has become.
The idea of automated cheat detection is fundamentally a good one, it helps to remove complete weeds from around us. However, at the same time we must remember that software is only as good as what you put in to it. False positives and other negative aspects quickly displace the usefulness of such applications in my mind - especially when you may find that the analysis of "similarity" between submissions is publically available for all to see.
The problem in my mind is when automated cheat detection develops in to other forms of automated assessment, which in my opinion are wrong. I do not believe that even the best current AI software is able to judge submissions in quite the same way as a human being, we should remember this.
In any case, I suggest that you guys take a look around at the information each organisation has on its assessment software - it's become quite an interest of mine of late.
--
Jon Masters
http://www.jonmasters.org/
http://www.jonmasters.org/
L O L
I've needed a good laugh for a while now. Try getting your WinXP to run on a 486DX with 16 megs of ram. I've got one of those running right next to me, and works quite alot better than Win98 on my Athlon.
I'm not even gonna start on the rest of the post. I'm gonna go die laughing.
You can mod your friends, you can mod your nose, but you can't mod your friend's nose.
In my first year of university they had the bright idea of running some plagurism detection software against our classes submissions. I believe 127 people were accused of cheating by the CS department - including me.
... it's infeasible to hope that no two students will produce very similar results.
I was sent a letter telling me that I had been accused of conspiring wiht one other person and consequently my mark would be halved.
Naturally I was outraged and got on the phone to the head of department. He explained that my submission was unacceptably similar to one other person and either someone copied it or we had collorated - I hadn't collaborated, copied or let my work be copied.
I arranged to meet with the course organiser and they showed me both submissions. Mine had originally been given 34/35 and the other had been handed in 2 weeks late and even then given 0/35. The other submission looked virtually identical to mine but had oddities like capital I's as loop control variables (suspiciously as if it had been typed into M$ Word). My guess is that he'd picked my code up from the recycle bin in the lab and typed it in.
However faced with this, they still argued that I could have allowed this person to copy my code (even hinting that I might have accepted payment for it) and if I had any further evidence to prove my innocence then I should draw it to their attention.
My father and I responded that it wasn't right that I should have to prove my innocence since it's a basic human right to be presumed innocent until proven otherwise. We suggested we would seek legal council, and they were quick to write back reinstating my original mark.
What frustrated me further was that the other party involved (who was never identified to me) was punished equally - by having his mark of 0 halved!
Cheat detection systems are fine as a mechanism to prompt staff to possible problems but they certainly shouldn't be used as the judge and jury.
Given that CS typically has large class sizes - mine was over 300 at one point - and CS assignments are often quite short and often closely related to textbook examples
The other thing that's NEVER been made clear to me is the distinction between permitted collaboration and plagurism. Every university document is fairly vague about what's acceptable and what's not. And as one of my other professors put it - "In the real world before you embark on any assignment it's worth asking, searching, begging and borrowing as much of it as possible"
Without such a changelog, honest students are vulnerable to a situation where someone else gets their code by dumpster-diving for printouts -- then it's one person's word against the other as far as establishing who really wrote it.
This solution also has the benefit of showing that the issue is plagiarism (not giving credit where credit is due), not code sharing. Code sharing is ok -- it's the programming equivalent of using a properly attributed quote in an English paper. After all, nobody expects students to rewrite glibc from scratch for use with their class project!
Find free books.
As an Aibo owner, having the ability to revert to the original state of the software that I bought, the "Aibo Life" that lets the machine "age", would be wonderful. Since the original images have been removed, now I have no option but to buy the $100 software again.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
Is it me or do most of the above messages deal with one of the most oft'n discused threads here on /. ? That of intellectual property vs. real property.
The DMCA is just another step in that nazi march to making intellectual property equivalent to real property. Now, I'm a surveyor by trade and training, and deal with real property every day. Farmer Joe owning 640 acres does nothing to stifle either the American economy, or my creativity. (even if he decides to turn it into a automotive junk yard.) This DMCA thinge is stupid but simple. Yes - you can pick that Master Lock of yours all you want (but why? a little bit of social engineering (Hello, I'm Xxxx Xxxxxx, Principal of Xxxxxx middle school, we need the new combination index. . . ) can get you their serial# refrenced combo manual.) ((besides their dial padlocks are simple - gate 1+3 are multiples of 4 and gate 2 = gate 1or3 MOD2)) ANYWAY - back to the point - Yes - you can pick that Master Lock of yours all you want - but you can't pick that digital equivalent or you're going to jail.
Counter-intuitive? Yes. Real? Yes.
Fucking sucks to be you/me/us.
MIT holds an important part in the history of the Free Software Foundation, GNU/Linux distributions and the General Public License and Lessor General Public License. Despite this, Loki games intends to pass redistribution of binaries which violate the LGPL on the MIT and as such get MIT to violate it's own policies.
The Loki demos and updates contain executiables which are statcially linked to glibc, libSDL and OpenAL. Each of these libraries are covered by the LGPL. Unlike the GPL, this license does allow for both dynamic and static linking with close-source binaries. But unlike a BSD or X style license, there are still other requirements which must be followed. For example, a statically linked work which displays copyright banners must also display the copyright information for the statically linked libraries. Each update contains a statically linked executiable which displays either an about or title screen with copyright information. But for whatever reason Loki has decided to exempt itself from the reasonable request of displaying copyright notice. None of the statically link binaries will ever display the copyright notices for glibc, libSDL or OpenAL.
Then there is the primary reason for the LGPL, to ensure modification of the library is possible by allowing the modified library to be relinked with the programs that use it. Loki has choosen to only partically follow this. They do provide an execitable which is dynamically linked to glibc. But honoring this part of the LGPL for libSDL and OpenAL is something Loki again choose not to follow. There is no way to relink modifications to libSDL to HereticII including the updated one from the Loki ftp site. There is also no way to relink modification to OpenAL including the latest update.
So is all of this theoretical problems? Not really. Violating the LGPL has practical problems. For example, all joystick handling in HereticII is passed through libSDL. The Logictech WingMan Extreme Digital 3D has five axises of which HereticII only recognizes two (X and Y-axis). It would be desirable to be able to use the other axises such as the third axis which registers twisting the joystick clockwise or counter-clockwise to control strafe left and strafe right. The HereticII layer which uses the libSDL layer will support 15 joystick buttons where the Wingman Extreme normally has 7 and the libSDL layer is capable of recognizing all the joystick axises. So, if the additional axises are each translated as two additional buttons (one button which is on when the axis is negative and another button which is on when the axis is postive) then strafing using the twist axis would be possible.
As a proof of concept, I have written kernel code to present the axises as additional buttons and HereticII does then allow strafing left and right using the WingMan twist. But this code will never be released and will never be accepted into the kernel. It suffers from too many probelms. Such as it only effects USB joysticks, to generically support these "virtual" joystick buttons would also require changing the serial and game port joystick code to also "create" them. And in addition to having to modify three different locations in the kernel, the creations of virtual joystick buttons in kernel space ends up being messy. Finally, this type of modification bloats the kernel with code that really should be handled in user-space.
According the LGPL, Loki must allow that this type of modification be permitted in user-space by allowing a "virtual joystick button" version of libSDL to be relinked. I even have such a version of libSDL. But Loki has decided to lock the user into one specific implimentation of the libSDL thus locking the user from making joystick code modifications in user-space code. A modification lock-out that the LGPL says can't legally be redistributed but Loki and MIT appear to be willing to do so anyways.
Maybe it is Scott Draeker/Loki's inablity to read/follow licenses and contracts that contributed to them going out of business?
I missed the spelling error in the Slashdot piece. It should be "plagiarism."
As for book titles, I think quotation marks are sufficient. Underlining a word in HTML is bound to provoke reader confusion.
You're right about the run-on sentence. Thanks. I think "would be useful" is appropriate because the writer, Timothy, does not have personal experience in automatic plagiarism detection software. That fact can be deduced from his wording.
anyone even a child can install linux correctly an to the point that it outperforms any Microsoft product. My 9 year old installed redhat 7.2 on her own
I installed it on my computer, and the fact is, it just doesn't work well. Yes it can be setup correctly, but it is quite difficult. I wonder if your 7 year old daughter would have known that there is a compatibility issue between the VIA USB chipset and Linux? That her computer would hang during auto hardware detection? That her modem would not work? Or that the network card would not work either (can be modified to work).
Perhaps you had a good experience installing linux, but that fact remains that it holds a small market share. Hardware vendors develop and test their products to run on mainstream Windows, for obvious economic reasons. Yes you can argue that Linux is a better OS. But that does not correlate to easy installation, or 'you're a complete idiot if you can't install Linux."
The article states that the Microsoft funded ATL was offering additional chances at the computers they were giving away for those that CC'd them on the letters they sent in. Does that not by itself illustrate how big of a problem we have with Microsoft? I would not be surprised if we find out that Microsoft had paid people to write letters directly -- that would be consistent with their behavior.
This message is encrypted with Quad ROT-13 to protect the author's copyright under the DMCA.
Unfortunately, the Courts have interpreted fair use not as a constitutional right, but as something allowed by law and granted by the Home Recording Act of 1982 (or something like that...someone help me out here?). Therefore, the DMCA can trample over fair use all it likes because it is just another law, not a right. And if we don't like it, we have to get the DMCA repealed by Congress, not the Court System. And that is very difficult seeing as corporations have so much money to lobby with, and we (relatively speaking) don't.
This is why if you want the DMCA overturned, we need campaign finance reform first. Then MAYBE our voices and votes will be able to stand up against corporate capital. But even then I think it rather unlikely. It makes me so damned mad to see so much power in the hands of the Corporations rather than the hands of individual voters. Something is definitely wrong with our system.
Does this mean that The People won a battle against the DMCA??
Placing students' work on a public CVS repository would make the situation worse. The professor would end up with most of the assignments turned in done in similar ways. All the assignments would have the hardest part done in a way similar to the first student to figure it out.
A lot of students will not go through the process of figuring out something for themselves unless they are forced to. The idea of education is to learn. I think students should be able to find general information on what they are looking for online, but if they can find the exact solution they will not figure it out themselves.
Normally I love the idea of open source, but in this case I think it is a bad idea. Now after the assignment is due and turned in, I think students have the right to post their assignments open source if they like (as long as it does not include any code provided by the instructor or others). Though, that forces the instructor to come up with a new assignment the next time the class is taught (if they realize).
This message is encrypted with Quad ROT-13 to protect the author's copyright under the DMCA.
Original AC here.
:)
Points taken -- I prefer italicizing books when in HTML.
Mainly, though, I wanted to show how we all slip up now and then.
it is NOT ILLEGAL TO TAKE THE TAG OFF YOUR MATTRESS. I forget the exact wording, but it's to prevent the tag from being taken off prior to purchase
True. However, if you take the tag off, you may not be able to resell it.
Will I retire or break 10K?
When I buy a toy, or any piece of sophisticated electronics, there is not> a licensing agreement i have to sign.
That is, unless software publishers and consumer electronics manufacturers decide to get in bed with credit card companies and print the EULA right on the charge slip.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Judging by their news page they are no longer clamouring for donations, instead they want donations to go to the FSF? I wonder if their IRC channel still has the same message on it ;)
Perhaps trying to recoup some PR...
no sig.
I've noticed that some times I have to scroll through some random text in order to press "next" during installs, but so far I've never had to read anything.
Is this the "agreement" you're talking about?
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
I'm reminded of a story involving Bill Gates and a certain law suit he filed years ago, in which he discussed how difficult it was for two programs to operate in the same way to achieve the same objective. The difference here, is the code is often Mickey Mouse
By "Mickey Mouse," do you imply that it's such valuable intellectual property that a publisher will buy senators to keep extending the term of the monopoly?
Will I retire or break 10K?
"My" community runs just fine by those who use a service paying for that use. There are also several different groups of people who get together to handle big projects, anyone not interested doesn't contribute. This makes for very efficient use of resources.
I make sure to only use a hospital that donates services to those who need it, but cannot afford it. Yes, it costs me more, but I feel it's worth while. Who knows when I'm going to need that service myself!
It's too bad that your community runs on coercion and force. I'm surprised that there are any people who are productive who haven't left for communities where their abilities are apreciated rather than punished. On the other hand, maybe your community doesn't let them leave.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
I agree with this agreement. Please shower the "slop post" with moderation points. Positive ones. Now!
*slop slop*
Moderators smoking crack again?
How is this different to http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=26315&threshol d=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=2850660? Reply to offtopic post should also be -1, offtopic!
Does you peice of shit 486 run a window manager? No, I think not.
Don't forget, my XT will run DOS 2 as well.
Placing students' work on a public CVS repository would make the situation worse.
Can't say I agree with that entirely, though its uefulness would be very limited, that is true.
The idea of education is to learn.
Most education stopped being about learning the moment the corporations and other interests got in the way. Call me synical if you must, but think about it...
Normally I love the idea of open source, but in this case I think it is a bad idea. Now after the assignment is due and turned in, I think students have the right to post their assignments open source if they like (as long as it does not include any code provided by the instructor or others). Though, that forces the instructor to come up with a new assignment the next time the class is taught (if they realize).
Actually, I believe we were talking about Free Software, though for the purposes of this discussion I shall assume that it what you actually meant.
Students do have the fundamental right to freely publish their work, in my opinion. Unfortunately, having read through various rules and regulations, I would imagine at lot of these so called "far issue" issues are a moot point in reality. After all, the regulations where I study make it a heinous crime to even accidentally drop a single item of litter, or so my unqualified understanding of the rules would suggest. Anyway, if lecturers must create new assignments each time the course is presented, surely this not only ensures that material is not re-used beyond its lifetime but also that other students do not offer previous year's solutions to "new recruits"?
http://www.jonmasters.org/
"couldn't care less"
I now return you to your regularly scheduled nitpicking with a Buffy quote.
"I went online once, to one of those chatrooms, but everyone's spelling was so bad... it was really depressing" - Tara.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
IMO, the real reason for cheat detection is not because of some moral reason to stop cheaters, but because of laziness.
What I'm getting at is really, how many professors actually look at the code to a program and not just run it to make sure it does what it's supposed to do? I had a CS teacher once tell everyone to make sure we output to a file so he could run the programs in batches and compare the outputs to what should be the output easily. Then he would run the source through a cheat detector and viola, he's done for the night.
I'm not saying professors are lazy, but programming is a rare example where this kind of detection could proove useful because often times it doesn't matter what the source of a program is, how poor or good it is, just that it does what you want it to do. This may seem like bad engineering, but its a real life fact in CS. English teachers are required to read the papers of their students -- thus they'll know a cheater off bat. But CS professors are not held to the same requirements, or let alone standards.
The problem with computer cheat detection is that there is, currently, no match for human cheat detection. You don't hear of a cheat detection system for English papers, why for CS?
The solution I think will be to have professors that actually go through the source code of each student. A particular case that I know of is a professor that would go through a project and comment on the source line by line, right along with your comments with things like "Good idea, great OOP use." or something like "You might try a linked list like this...". Not only was this invaluable assistance leading to better programmers, it was VERY easy to spot cheaters, because...he actually checked the source.
Why am I saying cheat detection is bad? Well, I'm certainly not a cheater. I know of several people who love CS -- not for actually liking programming, but for rushing through with assignments and turning them over to those who are helplessly lost for a quick profit. I don't like cheat detection because it not only can implicate those who don't cheat, but it allows professors to be lazy. If I was a suit at a university, I would bet on the professor I mentioned earlier who goes through source commenting than one who analyzes outputs and then runs the source through the latest cheatdetect.pl script.
"I'll just chip in a bit for RedHat: I actually have that installed on my university machine." - Linus, '95
For the exact purpose you mention (compliance with the terms of the LGPL license), Loki started to release both static patches (on which technical support was available), and dynamic patches - dynamically linked binaries against all the LGPL libraries like SDL, OpenAL, glibc, etc...
Of course those were unsupported because it's just goddamn impossible to try to support the zillions of possible combinations.
Call it a trade-off if you wish, but Loki was doing their best to comply with the GNU licenses, while still trying to make everybody's life easier on the support side of things...
Stéphane Peter
Codehost, Inc.
While teaching middle school students aged 11-14 I found they had no more difficulty installing SuSe Linux than Windows. In fact, the kids were quick to grasp the fact that you could mess with Linux a great deal more than you could with Windows and were always surprising me - both with what they learned and the nifty practical jokes they pulled.
That, and their absolute fascination with TuxRacer....
Seems to me that the people who have the most problems with Linux are those whose brains have already pickled. The young don't see the installation or use of Linux as any more of a chore than Windows, and learn a great deal more from it. It's the old and lazy who can't seem to wrap their brains around anything other than the shitty Windows OS they've been using for years.
But do you really expect anything different?
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
That, and their absolute fascination with TuxRacer....
Sure, but adults have a absolution facination with Solitare. Who's got the money?
He's a hero working against his own country's terrorism.
Come on ! What's the point in cheating at counterstrike ? To always win the game ? Auto-aim and immortality can be fun for 5 minutes, but afterwards it makes the game boring for the cheaters and unwinnable for the honnest (counter)terrorists.
Wasn't reverse engineering, or something very similar, the whole point of the GNU project? I thought they originally intended to build a Unix clone (hence "GNU's Not Unix") that could be distributed openly when the various Unix flavors that existed were all proprietary...
I wonder how they'd be treated if they tried to start that kind of project today. Would it be a DMCA violation to clone a system that was once open?
WEll your problem is obvious now... you make assumptions and jump to conclusions... case in point... I have a 9 year old daughter, you even quoted that fact and yet stated that she is 7. This small detail exposes a personality trait that probably causes huge troubles with computers in general.
Sorry, but your VIA USB problem is also known in the W2K world. and does cause troubles in windows (XP is really flakey with cheaper USB chipsets like VIA.) but then a USB chipset problem wont affect performance, just USB. so you probably had trouble with video or specalized hard drives. (as ALL IDE is supported fully.)
and installing any OS without doing a hardware check to see if the hardware is compatable is silly at best... Hell NT,2000,XP all have requirements that you MUST check the hardware compatability list... why should linux be fored to work with everything perfectly out of the box while Microsoft's products dont have to?
Double standards from people like you are what causes 95% of all un-factuals and fallacies.
It occurred to me as I read the article how closely the events described therein mimicked the back history presented in 'BiCentenial Man'. Isn't this how robotic "life" is supposed to start, in adherence to an 'Asimovian' line of thought? Seemed eerily portentious to me. A sense of wonderment (I do not own an Aibo -yet-) and uneasiness... Anyone else get the same feelings from this?
There is simply too much glass..
You, sir, are a fucking idiot.
Timothy, Timothy, Timothy...
go back to your room. If you really want a black person that much, ask Cleo where to find one.
You are the fucking idiot...you fucking idiot.
Blymie,
Over and over again you say how your "community" depends on coersion to operate. Yet you also state you're happy about that. Since you're happy, there is no reason for coersion. The only reason for coersion is that someone is not happy with the situation and would not cooperate without being forced.
This is not a safe or stable community you live in. Anyone is able to be made a criminal by no action of their own, only the "vote" of their neighbors, or representitives they never wanted in the first place.
Since your community is based on initiating force against the people who live there, and you seem to believe this is a "good" thing, can you describe to me what argument it was that convinced you that initiating force against others was the right thing to do?
I'm also interested in why you want thieves to rob you. If you don't, then how do you reconsile defending your self while robbing others?
I can suggest some reading on the subject: Democracy, the God that Failed by Hans-Hermann Hoppe, for one.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
You state, "What you MUST understand, is that there has to be SOME way to run the administration of communial costs."
I agree with you. Let those who use the service pay for it. As with my hospital example, I will gladly patronize those institutions that provide services to those who cannot afford it.
And those who you call thieves, who refuse to pay, are simply choosing not to use that service in the same way I don't buy a movie ticket for a movie I don't want to see.
That was easy, and no coersion used or needed.
Again, you have made no case for the benefit of using force against your neighbors, other than that projects that you approve of get funded more than you are willing to pay for them yourself. That's theft.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
I have outlined how coersion hurts some people, which you agree with. I have also stated that a lack of coersion hurts fewer people, which you disagree with.
You believe that it is right to take care of "everyone", yet you state that your system of coersion does, in fact, hurt people. This is a contradiction. Your ends are so important to you that you use force against others to achieve them. That you admit that you fail to achieve the universally beneficial ends demonstrates the weakness of your claims.
I also believe it is right to take care of people, and I do it by not using coersion. There may very well be some individuals who "slip through the cracks", but since you state that your system hurts people also, I consider these to at least cancel each other out.
Which leaves coersion as the only difference. Your system depends on it, my community flourishes without it.
The beauty of not enforcing one answer on everyone is also that if you, or anyone, comes up with a "better way" to do something, you are free to implement it. If it's good, I'll use it to. No force required.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics