Well, that is certainly cryptic enough to drive off most non-nerds. On windows, you right-click the screen and obvious menus take you from there.
In this particular case you are right, changing the screen resolution is not as fast (but honestly not really that hard either - and with the advent of TFT-displays, it's becoming a non-issue anyway as users are very unlikely of changing the resolution after installation).
But for example changing IP-settings is easier than in Windows.
All in all, SuSE wins over Windows because the KDE-control center is organized tree-like and not just a directory with random config-tools thrown in like in Windows. So you find what you need a lot faster than in Windows.
Oh no, I did it again, I critisized Windows in public. Flame me.
If I can't find what I need by clicking through some menu's, then IMHO the user interface sucks.
Again, just whining without example. I would expect more from somebody who claims to "have been using Unix since the early 80s".
FYI, you can reach the whole KDE-control center also via the K-menu, too.
But how should you know, you obviously never tried any recent SuSE or Mandrake distribution.
OTOH I detest Microsofts' monopolistic practices even more than I detest silly linux nerd arguments about how I would be better off if I had Linux for a desktop.
If the app you need is only available on Windows, you don't have much of a choice, but if you can choose, yes I do think Linux is not only cheaper, but also easier (for example you don't need to install every crappy utility. A Linux distro can do much more out of the box than any Windows-setup. For example Gimp, StarOffice, Napster-clients, ICQ-clients etc.) I can set up a Linux-workstation in less than an hour. On Windows you need at least a day to find/buy/download/install MS Office, ICQ, Photoshop etc. to get going.
Lack of certain key apps is a disadvantage of Linux, but that has absolutely nothing to do with ease of use. Ease of use is not a problem at all (as I clearly have shown with examples).
And if I hear somebody who installed Cygwin plus toolkits on Windows moan about "ease of use"...
No. I was just reacting to a post that seemed to imply editing configuration files was easier than clicking in a control panel (the "I know my way around/etc " comment).
Well, for some people it might be easier. It's also easier to write scripts and tools that operate with files in/etc.
Doing stuff with the registry is much harder because it's not based on a well-known paradigm (the filesystem).
The great thing about Linux is that you, the customer has the choice to use what does the job best.
How do you add a new video-mode eg 1600x1200 when the install only detected up to 1280x1024?
1. Start KDE control center
2. Choose Yast2 modules -> hardware -> X11 - configuration
3. Click on the "root" button as advised and enter root-password
4. Click "change"
5. Choose resolution
Or, you could just launch SaX2 directly from the SuSE-menu in the menubar. (skip steps 1-3)
You need to be root for that, and by FAR the quickest way is to hack on/etc/X11/XF86Config-4 yourself, IMO.
IMO not.
Unless it's got a magic way of becoming root
If you don't believe the magic why don't you just try it for yourself?
Why do the same people who understand the difference between vendor and the PC-platform as a whole simple don't get it into their head that a single distribution is not the whole Linux-platform?
Users feel that everything should come standard w/each distribution. Just b/c a distrib is not using X does NOT mean its broken.
If I'm going to do everything myself I don't need a distribution at all.
If I'm having to do much (especially something basic like CUPS) myself, the distributor is not doing it's job and should be replaced by another who does.
Why so many people insist in using the only GNOME-preferring distribution left led by a "Linux-won't-make-it-on-the-desktop" CEO on the desktop is beoynd me.
In my experience a lot of people who think Linux is "not ready" for the desktop are just pissed off by RedHat.
For example one major gripe is that Linux-tools are not integrated into the KDE-control center. SuSE does it and AFAIK Mandrake is about to do it, but RedHat won't do it for a couple of years.
Using RedHat on the desktop and saying Linux is not ready for it is like using a Yugo and saying cars are not ready for wide usage.
As long as RedHat doesn't do some fundamental changes (use KDE as default, integrate configuration tools in kcontrol, include a DVD, check if it works *before* release especially the compiler), it will remain the Yugo under the desktop-Linux distributions.
I could love KDE and Linux, but have a few problems with it.
Well, I didn't say KDE is perfect, the main problem I have with it is speed, but that's completely outside the "innovation"-debate (and KDE3 solves this problem to the most part).
Anyway, you can create bookmark directories in IE, with and without the organizer feature. But no, you can't create them by editing a text file.
No, that's not what I meant. In Konqui you can browse your bookmarks and insert a directory directly.
For example you encounter a site you want to bookmark. You go to your bookmarks -> topic , then you decide you want to put it into a subtopic-folder. In any other browser you would leave the bookmarks, fire up the helper-app, browse to the same position, insert the file, then quit, and the bookmark it.
In Konqueror, you realize that a directory is missing, click on "new directory" which is a menu-point directly below the last bookmark and poof- you just created a directory and can bookmark your site. Much faster than the other method.
Select your window. Hit Alt-Space, then some excelator key (R for restore, N for minimize, X-For maximize, etc). Obviously, YOU need to try something for a reasonable length of time before you judge something.
Look for the chapter "The ALT-key for easier window manipulation"
It's about resizing and moving. I don't see that in "R for restore, N for minimize, X-For maximize".
It would be really nice to have one key to get to just about everything I'd need under KDE--Such as the Win Key!
In Windows the Win-key is only used to open the start-menu (correct me if I'm wrong), that's not really that great of a feature. But if you really can't live without it, you can redefine KDE's behaviour to open the "K"-menu with it.
Related excelerator keys such as Win-D for the desktop, or Win-M to minimize everything.
AFAIK, KDE3 has added something like this. Don't know details, though.
File extensions. These exist in Linux, but not to the same extent. In Windows, I can easily sort a column of files by their type. Something I cannot do in KDE (again v2?).
Konqueror/KFM could always do that. Back into the v1.x days.
Also, wouldn't it be nice if I could control every aspect of the GUI from within the GUI? Imagine not being required to edit some XFree86 file when I change pointer devices, video cards, etc. Imagine if these were integrated in one place.
That would be the KDE-control center. In SuSE, everything from network-settings to X-configuration can be done in the control center.
Other distros are a bit behind, though. BTW, did you try RedHat? Even RedHat's boss Young said that it's not targeted at the desktop, try SuSE or at least Mandrake next time.
Oh and I didn't mention that the KDE-control center is much better than the one in Windows because it's a tree-like organized structure, not just a directory with random config-tools thrown in.
Something like a registry!
*shudder*
Oh yeah, I really need a binary only thing that is just like a filesystem plus config-files (tree-like structure), only with fewer features and with absolutely no documentation.
I never understood why the Windows-zealots (yes, I use the word zealot here) think that putting settings out of one tree-like structure (the filesystem) into another tree-like structure (the registry) is having it "in one place". Those who think this is "in one place" only repeated MS-marketing without thinking. Pure zealotry.
I'm anti Linux zealot, pro Windows pragmatist. All I want is for people here to be more objective with their opinions. If people were more objective and reasoned in their arguments, they wouldn't be so closed minded and mentally sour.
Huh?
Why was all you posted just prejudices and hearsay?
It was me who posted spedific examples, remember? Just because you think that everything not available in Windows is useless (that you think that nobody needs more than 4 desktops is typical. Such a coincidence, I bet if MS would have offered up to 6 desktops you would think that 6 desktops is the maximum one might ever need) doesn't mean you are objective.
So far you lack any objective argument.
How long is reasonable? How long should I suffer with something I don't like?
I'd say about 2 weeks of daily usage are needed - not to start being productive (you can use it right away) but to discouver the smart innovative features of KDE - exactly what you think don't exist.
P.S.: Oh and another feature is the Alt-modifier-key that allows you to move and resize windows faster and more comfortably. Windows doesn't do that either.
If you think you are so objective, maybe it's time that you start posting at least one example of a GUI-feature Windows has but KDE hasn't.
Sad that the only major improvement in WinXP (themeing) was copied from KDE, isn't it?
Actually, yes you can... OS X supports this (it can be the default, too). Since there's no multiple-button mouse it's Option-click for the 'other' action (page up/down or scroll to here) but it's simple enough to bind that to the middle mouse button if you wish.
That doesn't cut it, sorry.
'bookmark directories'?
You know, bookmarks are organized in a tree-like structure. In Konqueror I can create a new container for bookmarks (or bookmark directory) without launching a helper app.
* Why do we care so much about themes over everything else?
I don't care about themes. It was just an example of something Microsoft ripped off KDE.
* How many desktops do you need? Doesn't it get confusing after 4?
I get confused not using 16 desktops when I got 40 or more windows open. And yes I want 40 windows open.
* How can Unix-style cut&paste be more efficient when it works so clumsely? I couldn't tell you how to do it by keyboard (consistent across apps), and couldn't find instructions on it either.
It works both the Unix-style method (MMB) and the MacOS-style method (keyboard) in KDE and consistently.
* Explorer windows can also reappear after logging out.
Only for the local filesystem which makes them pretty useless. I want webbrowser windows reapearing
* Why does Konqueror have better bookmarking?
You can create bookmark-dirs without helper-app and you also a nicer bookmark-bar. It MIGHT help if you would actually try it before you judge it.
* How can you claim KDE to be more innovative when most features were copied from MS? Unless you mean they copied them fast.
I provided a list which KDE had first or Windows still doesn't have. Just because you seem to have a chip in your brain that sais (Windows-> good useful feature, not Windows-> useless feature) doesn't make KDE uninnovative.
And that you obviously didn't even try it for a reasonable amount of time, speaks for itself.
- KDE had a themeable desktop long before Windows.
- Windows needed a long time to offer a measly 4 desktops (compared to up to 16 in KDE)
- Unix-style cut&paste is much more efficient and unmatched by Apple-style cut&paste used in Windows
- Konqueror windows reappear after logging out and in again. Of course on the right desktop and with the right widow-geometry. No more temporary bookmarks!
- Konqueror has much better bookmark-handling than any other browser
There is more innovation and new ideas in one year of KDE-development than in the whole Windows-series.
The asterioid probably didn't cross the earth's path exactly, so you got to reset it. Question is where? Do you put it exactly on the path to get a possible hit at the equator region? Or the northern or southern hemisphere?
which hemisphere/continent(s) would have been most likely to have been struck?
This doesn't make sense.
You have to make assumtions - for example change the path, speed and time when/where the asteroid had to be to hit earth. Where on earth it hits, depends on those assumtions and because there are millions of possible assumtions that lead to this result, you get millions of possible targets on earth.
This is like asking what number would have hit a dart player who missed.
since it's spring here now, and the asteroid is probably in the ecliptic.
That would be summer. In spring any location is possible.
Well, the user I talk about tried it with all compatibility-settings always with the same results: Everything (menus, settings, navigation) worked fine, except for the actual levels which crashed immediately.
You didn't answer the question, so I'll repeat it:
Why do they have to ** FORCE ** you to buy Windows?
I'm not advocating forcing anybody not to buy Windows, I just want choice. I also don't say that there are no advantages for some people when Windows is preinstalled. I just want to know why you have to be FORCED.
Perhaps Microsoft put them up to it so they then could discontinue it because of "low demand" with big blows and whistles?
Just look at the Dell-advertisments. I've NEVER seen a non-Windows machine there. (also none for servers) Usually you would expect that a new product line would get some advertisment to get it going, wouldn't you?
Slashdot Mirror
In this particular case you are right, changing the screen resolution is not as fast (but honestly not really that hard either - and with the advent of TFT-displays, it's becoming a non-issue anyway as users are very unlikely of changing the resolution after installation).
But for example changing IP-settings is easier than in Windows.
All in all, SuSE wins over Windows because the KDE-control center is organized tree-like and not just a directory with random config-tools thrown in like in Windows. So you find what you need a lot faster than in Windows.
Oh no, I did it again, I critisized Windows in public. Flame me.
If I can't find what I need by clicking through some menu's, then IMHO the user interface sucks.
Again, just whining without example. I would expect more from somebody who claims to "have been using Unix since the early 80s".
FYI, you can reach the whole KDE-control center also via the K-menu, too.
But how should you know, you obviously never tried any recent SuSE or Mandrake distribution.
OTOH I detest Microsofts' monopolistic practices even more than I detest silly linux nerd arguments about how I would be better off if I had Linux for a desktop.
If the app you need is only available on Windows, you don't have much of a choice, but if you can choose, yes I do think Linux is not only cheaper, but also easier (for example you don't need to install every crappy utility. A Linux distro can do much more out of the box than any Windows-setup. For example Gimp, StarOffice, Napster-clients, ICQ-clients etc.) I can set up a Linux-workstation in less than an hour. On Windows you need at least a day to find/buy/download/install MS Office, ICQ, Photoshop etc. to get going.
Lack of certain key apps is a disadvantage of Linux, but that has absolutely nothing to do with ease of use. Ease of use is not a problem at all (as I clearly have shown with examples).
And if I hear somebody who installed Cygwin plus toolkits on Windows moan about "ease of use"...
Linux can do all that out of the box.
Well, for some people it might be easier. It's also easier to write scripts and tools that operate with files in /etc.
Doing stuff with the registry is much harder because it's not based on a well-known paradigm (the filesystem).
The great thing about Linux is that you, the customer has the choice to use what does the job best.
1. Start KDE control center
2. Choose Yast2 modules -> hardware -> X11 - configuration
3. Click on the "root" button as advised and enter root-password
4. Click "change"
5. Choose resolution
Or, you could just launch SaX2 directly from the SuSE-menu in the menubar. (skip steps 1-3)
You need to be root for that, and by FAR the quickest way is to hack on /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 yourself, IMO.
IMO not.
Unless it's got a magic way of becoming root
If you don't believe the magic why don't you just try it for yourself?
Why do the same people who understand the difference between vendor and the PC-platform as a whole simple don't get it into their head that a single distribution is not the whole Linux-platform?
So you'll also assume that grandma will do Windows-configuration by hacking the registry?
Or is this just a double-standard?
FYI: The control panel in SuSE is much better than the one in Windows because it's structurized.
Tell me what desktop-oriented task needs altering configuration text files.
In SuSE 7.1 and above there is none, everything can be done with the mouse. (But maybe I'm wrong, just tell me)
If I'm going to do everything myself I don't need a distribution at all.
If I'm having to do much (especially something basic like CUPS) myself, the distributor is not doing it's job and should be replaced by another who does.
Why so many people insist in using the only GNOME-preferring distribution left led by a "Linux-won't-make-it-on-the-desktop" CEO on the desktop is beoynd me.
In my experience a lot of people who think Linux is "not ready" for the desktop are just pissed off by RedHat.
For example one major gripe is that Linux-tools are not integrated into the KDE-control center. SuSE does it and AFAIK Mandrake is about to do it, but RedHat won't do it for a couple of years.
Using RedHat on the desktop and saying Linux is not ready for it is like using a Yugo and saying cars are not ready for wide usage.
As long as RedHat doesn't do some fundamental changes (use KDE as default, integrate configuration tools in kcontrol, include a DVD, check if it works *before* release especially the compiler), it will remain the Yugo under the desktop-Linux distributions.
Well, I didn't say KDE is perfect, the main problem I have with it is speed, but that's completely outside the "innovation"-debate (and KDE3 solves this problem to the most part).
Anyway, you can create bookmark directories in IE, with and without the organizer feature. But no, you can't create them by editing a text file.
No, that's not what I meant. In Konqui you can browse your bookmarks and insert a directory directly.
For example you encounter a site you want to bookmark. You go to your bookmarks -> topic , then you decide you want to put it into a subtopic-folder. In any other browser you would leave the bookmarks, fire up the helper-app, browse to the same position, insert the file, then quit, and the bookmark it.
In Konqueror, you realize that a directory is missing, click on "new directory" which is a menu-point directly below the last bookmark and poof- you just created a directory and can bookmark your site. Much faster than the other method.
Select your window. Hit Alt-Space, then some excelator key (R for restore, N for minimize, X-For maximize, etc). Obviously, YOU need to try something for a reasonable length of time before you judge something.
Why should I be interested in that?
See this.
Look for the chapter "The ALT-key for easier window manipulation"
It's about resizing and moving. I don't see that in "R for restore, N for minimize, X-For maximize".
It would be really nice to have one key to get to just about everything I'd need under KDE--Such as the Win Key!
In Windows the Win-key is only used to open the start-menu (correct me if I'm wrong), that's not really that great of a feature. But if you really can't live without it, you can redefine KDE's behaviour to open the "K"-menu with it.
Related excelerator keys such as Win-D for the desktop, or Win-M to minimize everything.
AFAIK, KDE3 has added something like this. Don't know details, though.
File extensions. These exist in Linux, but not to the same extent. In Windows, I can easily sort a column of files by their type. Something I cannot do in KDE (again v2?).
Konqueror/KFM could always do that. Back into the v1.x days.
Also, wouldn't it be nice if I could control every aspect of the GUI from within the GUI? Imagine not being required to edit some XFree86 file when I change pointer devices, video cards, etc. Imagine if these were integrated in one place.
That would be the KDE-control center. In SuSE, everything from network-settings to X-configuration can be done in the control center.
Other distros are a bit behind, though. BTW, did you try RedHat? Even RedHat's boss Young said that it's not targeted at the desktop, try SuSE or at least Mandrake next time.
Oh and I didn't mention that the KDE-control center is much better than the one in Windows because it's a tree-like organized structure, not just a directory with random config-tools thrown in.
Something like a registry!
*shudder*
Oh yeah, I really need a binary only thing that is just like a filesystem plus config-files (tree-like structure), only with fewer features and with absolutely no documentation.
I never understood why the Windows-zealots (yes, I use the word zealot here) think that putting settings out of one tree-like structure (the filesystem) into another tree-like structure (the registry) is having it "in one place". Those who think this is "in one place" only repeated MS-marketing without thinking. Pure zealotry.
Huh?
Why was all you posted just prejudices and hearsay?
It was me who posted spedific examples, remember? Just because you think that everything not available in Windows is useless (that you think that nobody needs more than 4 desktops is typical. Such a coincidence, I bet if MS would have offered up to 6 desktops you would think that 6 desktops is the maximum one might ever need) doesn't mean you are objective.
So far you lack any objective argument.
How long is reasonable? How long should I suffer with something I don't like?
I'd say about 2 weeks of daily usage are needed - not to start being productive (you can use it right away) but to discouver the smart innovative features of KDE - exactly what you think don't exist.
P.S.: Oh and another feature is the Alt-modifier-key that allows you to move and resize windows faster and more comfortably. Windows doesn't do that either.
If you think you are so objective, maybe it's time that you start posting at least one example of a GUI-feature Windows has but KDE hasn't.
Sad that the only major improvement in WinXP (themeing) was copied from KDE, isn't it?
That doesn't cut it, sorry.
'bookmark directories'?
You know, bookmarks are organized in a tree-like structure. In Konqueror I can create a new container for bookmarks (or bookmark directory) without launching a helper app.
I don't care about themes. It was just an example of something Microsoft ripped off KDE.
* How many desktops do you need? Doesn't it get confusing after 4?
I get confused not using 16 desktops when I got 40 or more windows open. And yes I want 40 windows open.
* How can Unix-style cut&paste be more efficient when it works so clumsely? I couldn't tell you how to do it by keyboard (consistent across apps), and couldn't find instructions on it either.
It works both the Unix-style method (MMB) and the MacOS-style method (keyboard) in KDE and consistently.
* Explorer windows can also reappear after logging out.
Only for the local filesystem which makes them pretty useless. I want webbrowser windows reapearing
* Why does Konqueror have better bookmarking?
You can create bookmark-dirs without helper-app and you also a nicer bookmark-bar. It MIGHT help if you would actually try it before you judge it.
* How can you claim KDE to be more innovative when most features were copied from MS? Unless you mean they copied them fast.
I provided a list which KDE had first or Windows still doesn't have. Just because you seem to have a chip in your brain that sais (Windows-> good useful feature, not Windows-> useless feature) doesn't make KDE uninnovative.
And that you obviously didn't even try it for a reasonable amount of time, speaks for itself.
Especially ripoff claims are somewhat stupid based on a screenshot - maybe, just maybe this KDE was configured to look similiar to Windows?
Never thought about that, right?
It's all about RAM, if you've got enough of it (at least 128MB, better 256MB) it should be OK.
Can I jump to a location on a scrollbar with the MMB in any version of Windows or MacOS? No.
Can I use up to 16 desktops in any version of Widnows or MacOS (without ugly 3rd party tools)? No.
Can I create bookmark directories in IE without launching a helper-app? No.
In contrast to you, I do know both KDE and Windows, and the Windows-GUI is pretty worthless compared to any KDE-version after 2.0
- Windows needed a long time to offer a measly 4 desktops (compared to up to 16 in KDE)
- Unix-style cut&paste is much more efficient and unmatched by Apple-style cut&paste used in Windows
- Konqueror windows reappear after logging out and in again. Of course on the right desktop and with the right widow-geometry. No more temporary bookmarks!
- Konqueror has much better bookmark-handling than any other browser
There is more innovation and new ideas in one year of KDE-development than in the whole Windows-series.
The asterioid probably didn't cross the earth's path exactly, so you got to reset it. Question is where? Do you put it exactly on the path to get a possible hit at the equator region? Or the northern or southern hemisphere?
Because obviously the thing did not hit us.
Imagine a dartplayer missing the dartdisc - how are you going to answer where would he hit it when he would have hit it?
Let's take the example in the article:
An asteroid will flatten the Atlanta-area.
So let's assume you lifed there, what would you do?
a) Wait for the asteroid to hit.
b) Move somewhere else before it hits.
A difficult decision, I know.
Fortunately, most asteroids are not THAT big.
This doesn't make sense.
You have to make assumtions - for example change the path, speed and time when/where the asteroid had to be to hit earth. Where on earth it hits, depends on those assumtions and because there are millions of possible assumtions that lead to this result, you get millions of possible targets on earth.
This is like asking what number would have hit a dart player who missed.
since it's spring here now, and the asteroid is probably in the ecliptic.
That would be summer. In spring any location is possible.
Huh? What crappy browser do you use?
Well, the user I talk about tried it with all compatibility-settings always with the same results: Everything (menus, settings, navigation) worked fine, except for the actual levels which crashed immediately.
I also think that Win95 compatibility - but 100% - would be enough for most non-games.
Why do they have to ** FORCE ** you to buy Windows?
I'm not advocating forcing anybody not to buy Windows, I just want choice. I also don't say that there are no advantages for some people when Windows is preinstalled. I just want to know why you have to be FORCED.
Just look at the Dell-advertisments. I've NEVER seen a non-Windows machine there. (also none for servers) Usually you would expect that a new product line would get some advertisment to get it going, wouldn't you?