Name one feature that NT has and 9x doesn't, which has resulted in increased revenue for Microsoft.
The higher price tag.
Yes it's as simple as that. Microsoft supported the "shareware" idea. You get the bug-ridden version for free with your computer and have to pay for the "real" version.
That's why I'm not so sure about WinXP helping Microsoft's bottom line.
Since/. has turned into a Microsoft-above-all fansite, I'll get flamed for this and lose the little Karma I still have:
If you are concerned about Viruses and only need EMail, why don't you go out, pick up a Linux-distribution and invest half an hour of time to install it? If your mother does not need any Win32 games, there is not much reason to use Windows.
Never mind PC manufacturers like Dell and Gateway. It's Sony that needs to run with this idea. The PS/2 is a powerful system, but lacks a hard drive. If I were them, I'd be working really hard to figure out a way of expanding it so it could run some basic competing apps. Like it or not, Linux may be it's best bet to get themselves into this market quickly.
That's true. For websurfing, emailing etc. this would be good enough.
They should hook up with AOL and get some brand name recognition. There's millions of PS/2 machines out there. Sony has a lot of potential to beat Microsoft at their own game. The only question is, "Are they gonna go for it?"
Unfortunately I think this might only happen if they get heat from Microsoft and Nintendo. But with 250,000 new PS2s sold PER WEEK and no slowdown during the XBox and GC launches, I doubt that. While the GC might survive because of loyal Nintendo-fans, the XBox will soon roll over and die, so Sony has no reason to start a war with Microsoft. After all if you can use it for non-gaming activities, they'll make less money on games.
hmmm.... I am reminded of netscape... hell it had at least a 2/1 ratio... what browser are you using now?
This is pure nonsense.
Nintendo and Sony are not small startups with a handful of employees, these are megacorps. I don't know excactly about Nintendo, but Sony is A LOT bigger than Microsoft.
Microsoft can't use their desktop domination here. They can't bundle it with Windows and they can't give it away...
I'm an avid gamer and have been forever, so I know what good games feel like, and most of the games I've played (as well as my suitemates) in the past week just seem to say that at the moment, Xbox has the better games.
Well, the Dreamcast also had great games...
While games are surely very important for a gaming console, there are also other things:
The XBox is just too expensive. Sony knows damn well why they continue to sell PS-Ones: Because the PS2 is too expensive for many people, too (although at least you get a DVD-player with it too)
In about half a year, the XBox will face another big problem: While the XBox is now adequate from the PC-gamer in terms of performance, it will look very measly in comparison to future's PCs.
Overall, the PC is hurting the XBox a lot more than it helps it: I don't think anybody will buy an XBox game if they can get the VERY SAME game for less money for the PC.
When you look at Microsoft's track record (discontinued Windows/Alpha without warning, discontinued european versions of MS Money without warning) I don't think it's likely you can buy an XBox on Christmas 2002.
My biggest question is this: does SuSE 7.3 PPC support sound on the iBook?
Sound works great on my Powerbook G3 400 ("Pismo") - actually better than in MacOS9, since I can use BOTH speakers and external sound at the same time if I want to. (And I control volume of speakers and external independently)
There are so many prejudices about "linux-folk" it's no funny anymore. One day "Linux-folk" are guys who keep all their computers running without reboot for years just for the heck of it, the next day "Linux-folk" are updating the kernel dayly.
Sorry... I took it as what a former roommate did constantly. Recompile a kernel or 2... reformat a hard drive. I always laughed when one of my programs hiccupped under Win2K (now WinXP Pro) and I never had a problem.
Yeah, yeah, sorry, blah, blah.
Why don't you go out and find out for yourself that Linux is already easier to install and use than Windows?
Just put the SuSE 7.3 DVD in the drive and within less than an hour you get not only some naked operating system, but an office suite, ICQ/AIM clients, mp3 players, napster client, a superior GUI and a lot more.
Oh and did I mention that SuSE automatically detected my K7V onboard-sound, my Netgear LAN adapter and my Matrox G400 while on Windows 9x I had to install all 3 with vendor CDs/diskettes?
Well, I think you are forgetting that probably ~90% of those kids will NEVER use a computer for anything other than e-mail and web surfing.
Maybe. 10 years ago few people would have predicted that something like websurfing would become important.
But let's assume that the computing needs will stay as they are now forever:
In a programming class - Linux all the way, but when trying to teach kids PRACTICAL skills, then Windows, MSO, and IE are what they should be learning.
Can you please tell me how IE differs in usage to Mozilla or Konqueror? StarOffice and MS Office?
How does manipulating windows or running programs in KDE and Windows differ?
Exactly these skills can also be taught with Linux without problems whatever.
BTW, 5 years ago, Netscape was the "standard". IE won't stay on top forever. Just in case you've been sleeping under a rock: Linux is already the "standard" on embedded devices and with embedded devices pushing on the net, the portable Mozilla is more likely to be the "standard" in 10 years than the x86-only Windows-only IE. (No the Mac version does not count)
I don't like it any more than you, and I am NOT an MS appologist, but I am a realist, and reality (unfortunatly) is currently windows-centric.
Yes, currently. But Windows is also changing. It does not matter if you "learned" on Win3.11 or fvwm, today. It won't matter if you "learn" KDE or WinXP in a couple of years.
BTW, just like the proprietary hardware-platforms, the proprietary software platforms are doomed in the end. It's just a matter of time.
In the early 90's, Microsoft smashed several competitors and took over the Office market and now gets nearly half the revenue out of it.
In the late 90's, Microsoft had to GIVE AWAY Internet Explorer and had to use blackmail, lies and a lot of money to crush a SMALL STARTUP COMPANY with only a handful of employees. IE does not create any revenue for Microsoft, it's not the great victory, MS-marketing wants us to think.
Microsoft is already on the decline and they know it.
But like I said, knowing Linux forces you to know computers.
This is the greatest nonsense I've read for a long time.
I've installed SuSE 7.3 for a friend and he knows absolutely zero about computers (don't know the difference between USB and parport printers - he even called me to plug in his printer because he did not want to do it himself!)
He has absolutely no problems using KDE and StarOffice.
Linux ALLOWS you to learn more about computers but it does not FORCE you (anymore).
Granted, I've never used Linux.... What we need for the schools is a universal system (and one where the kernel doesn't need recompiled daily.) that can be easily used.
So you've never used Linux, yet you think that you have to recompile the kernel daily? I haven't recompiled a kernel on my desktop machine for over 2 years now.
I doubt that any software suites for Linux are 100% like Microsoft's products.
I doubt that in a couple of years, any Microsoft products are 100% like today's Microsoft products.
In other words, if they had wanted to install Linux for education (thereby crippling the majority of children who would have to go on and work with MS software in their jobs anyway), wouldn't they have done so already?
Could you please elaborate why pupils who have used KDE/Linux would be crippled if they would have to use Windows later at work?
Because the start-button has a different color? Because some button in StarOffice looks a bit different than in MS Office?
Oh my, the color of the start button just changed with WinXP, so according to your logic all the Windows-education over the years went to hell, right?
The fundamental concepts (moving the mouse, clicking on icons, manipulating windows, etc.) are the same and the differences among Win3.11/Win95/WinXP are as big as between Win and KDE.
Fantastic Idea, but with the amount of Windows boxen out there... is it ok to be teaching kids to use Linux? I mean really... how many of them are going to run into that platform in the workplace...
Oh my god, clicking on a KDE-icon is soooo different than clicking on a Windows-icon.
It depends on what the children shall learn:
Is it word-processing/spreadsheet etc, then MS Office and StarOffice are equally adequate since in a couple of years, the difference between the versions will be greater than the difference between SO and MSO.
Is it programming (which was the ONLY thing I was ever taught in the computer lab, BTW.), then Linux is a lot better because it offers much deeper insights.
In general, the "We must use Windows because it's the standard" argument is moot for schools because Windows changes very fast. What does Win3.11 knowledge help you with WinXP?
I am sure to be modded down for trolling, but I think this is a valid point.
No, this is slashdot, and the Microsoft-apologists have taken over. I've even seen a couple modded-up-to-5 posts of "RedHat isn't doing that for the kids, just for themselves" - as if RedHat was the company that lied in court, forged evidence, destroyed competition and blackmailed computer-makers and needs to be punished.
In fact RedHat said they would love to be "punished" like Microsoft.
Re:A PS2 with different games
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XBox Released
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· Score: 1
First of all, there is a reason for Sony to still sell the PS-One.
The reason is that the PS1 is good enough for pretty much everything and only very, very few games really need the computing power of the PS2.
Now Microsoft wants to get into the market and creates a box that is more powerful and a lot more expensive to manufacture than the PS2 - Are you kidding me?
Re:A PS2 with different games
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XBox Released
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· Score: 2, Insightful
Just to check if I understand:
You say that Sony who do several times the revenue of Microsoft worldwide can be crushed by Microsoft like a tiny startup founded by a handful of people that Netscape was?
It brings all of the benefits of the Windows registry without it's drawbacks.
Huh?
What benefits?
Putting everything in one file (binary or not) is a pretty stupid idea.
I just upgraded my distro and was very happy that I could copy single per-app configfiles instead of the whole "registry" (that may not work). This happyness is about both the/etc files and the KDE config files.
It's not a matter of porting - KDE already runs on Solaris and has for some time. This is about being included as a part of Solaris. KDE will likey never be included this way because "The Mighty Sun Hath Spoken And The Mighty Sun Hath Chosen GNOME."
Sun has changed their desktop so often that I would not be surprised if they switch to KDE next week and pretend Gnome never existed.
I'm still waiting for you to look at "real life" statistics, and not ones that skew them toward your beliefs. Hey, if you can show a real world study that shows Linux on the desktop with any sort of marketshare > 1%, I'll admit I was wrong. So far, you haven't shown jack, except a lot of wrong assumptions (Google "most popular site"???).
Well, OK maybe that was a bit exagerated. But Google is certainly popular and is not connected to Linux in any way as a website.
Just out of curiosity, are you willing to admit that Linux on the desktop is just not there, or do you "just know" that it's better than what the numbers show?
Technically it's there.
I installed SuSE 7.2 on a friend's machine and he's quite happy because StarOffice 5.2 can open.doc files that his Office97 can't do. (No, buying Office2K or OfficeXP is not an option)
The only thing still missing is Windows-compatibility, well Wine is just solving that problem.
Once again, you used a Linux-friendly site that will skew your numbers. Probably 95% of Linux users (99%?) use Google, because they are knowledgeable about search engines. On the other hand, the general population uses a variety of other search engines, including AOL's and MSN's search engines (only the two top portals). Possibly in your favor is the fact that Yahoo uses Google, but the page says "google.com" statistics, and I have a feeling that Yahoo stats are probably not included since they have a separate deal. Yahoo might even use their own hardware.
Google is the most popular search engine, that's a fact.
Of course the statistic is not perfect, but since google is the most popular search engine and probably even the most popular site, it's THE BEST STATISTIC YOU CAN GET.
Google sais: 1.18%, maybe the real number is a bit higher or a bit lower, but CERTAINLY above 0.1% which is absolutely ridiculous.
Oh, and FUDing Linux with "Nobody uses it" and calling people who dare to look at real life statistics crack addicts, *IS* Linux-bashing.
BTW, the market-share in Europe is a lot higher (because of SuSE), for example this non-Linux and non-Technical german satire magazine has those stats:
Come on man, lay off the crack. What proportion of everyone are developers? 1% -- maybe? Remember we are counting AOLers, businessman, secretaries, accountants, marketing drones, home users, everyone. It might be less than 1%. Do the math, and you're not getting from 7% on a Linux-heavy site to 1-2% of the general population.
That's typical. If you don't know any arguments any more, just attack the messenger. Somebody who does not bash Linux must be on crack, right?
Anyway, seems like I was quite right, as I've found the google-statistics:
I still have yet to see any credible evidence that Linux has any more than a negligable desktop market share, and I think your guess of 0.1% is generous.
Konqueror, a Unix/Linux-only browser has 1.23% marketshare and Mozilla, which is also strong on Linux has over 7%.
So I'd say 5% Linux marketshare is realistic for that site. Of course it is a developer site, but 1% to 2% overall desktop-Linux marketshare is realistic.
Slashdot Mirror
IBM makes 4 times the revenue of Microsoft, Sony 10 times IIRC.
It was easy for Microsoft to crush Netscape just like it is easy for an adult to beat up a 10 year old kid.
XBox will be Microsoft's Waterloo. You can't piss off Nokia, Sony, IBM, Oracle, Sun and AOL/TW *at the same time* and expect no consequences.
The higher price tag.
Yes it's as simple as that. Microsoft supported the "shareware" idea. You get the bug-ridden version for free with your computer and have to pay for the "real" version.
That's why I'm not so sure about WinXP helping Microsoft's bottom line.
If you are concerned about Viruses and only need EMail, why don't you go out, pick up a Linux-distribution and invest half an hour of time to install it? If your mother does not need any Win32 games, there is not much reason to use Windows.
OK, sorry I went to far. I apologize.
Never mind PC manufacturers like Dell and Gateway. It's Sony that needs to run with this idea. The PS/2 is a powerful system, but lacks a hard drive. If I were them, I'd be working really hard to figure out a way of expanding it so it could run some basic competing apps. Like it or not, Linux may be it's best bet to get themselves into this market quickly.
That's true. For websurfing, emailing etc. this would be good enough.
They should hook up with AOL and get some brand name recognition. There's millions of PS/2 machines out there. Sony has a lot of potential to beat Microsoft at their own game. The only question is, "Are they gonna go for it?"
Unfortunately I think this might only happen if they get heat from Microsoft and Nintendo. But with 250,000 new PS2s sold PER WEEK and no slowdown during the XBox and GC launches, I doubt that. While the GC might survive because of loyal Nintendo-fans, the XBox will soon roll over and die, so Sony has no reason to start a war with Microsoft. After all if you can use it for non-gaming activities, they'll make less money on games.
If Microsoft wants to become the next Apple (closed hardware, closed software) so be it.
In one year the typical hardcore gamer has an Athlon XP 3000+ with an GeForce4 and 2 Gigs of RAM.
Oh, and did I mention that the same game will cost substantially more on XBox than on PC?
What most people fail to see is that the PC is the greatest enemy of the XBox.
This is pure nonsense.
Nintendo and Sony are not small startups with a handful of employees, these are megacorps. I don't know excactly about Nintendo, but Sony is A LOT bigger than Microsoft.
Microsoft can't use their desktop domination here. They can't bundle it with Windows and they can't give it away...
P.S.: Posted proudly with Konqueror
Well, the Dreamcast also had great games...
While games are surely very important for a gaming console, there are also other things:
The XBox is just too expensive. Sony knows damn well why they continue to sell PS-Ones: Because the PS2 is too expensive for many people, too (although at least you get a DVD-player with it too)
In about half a year, the XBox will face another big problem: While the XBox is now adequate from the PC-gamer in terms of performance, it will look very measly in comparison to future's PCs.
Overall, the PC is hurting the XBox a lot more than it helps it: I don't think anybody will buy an XBox game if they can get the VERY SAME game for less money for the PC.
When you look at Microsoft's track record (discontinued Windows/Alpha without warning, discontinued european versions of MS Money without warning) I don't think it's likely you can buy an XBox on Christmas 2002.
Sound works great on my Powerbook G3 400 ("Pismo") - actually better than in MacOS9, since I can use BOTH speakers and external sound at the same time if I want to. (And I control volume of speakers and external independently)
There are so many prejudices about "linux-folk" it's no funny anymore. One day "Linux-folk" are guys who keep all their computers running without reboot for years just for the heck of it, the next day "Linux-folk" are updating the kernel dayly.
Yeah, yeah, sorry, blah, blah.
Why don't you go out and find out for yourself that Linux is already easier to install and use than Windows?
Just put the SuSE 7.3 DVD in the drive and within less than an hour you get not only some naked operating system, but an office suite, ICQ/AIM clients, mp3 players, napster client, a superior GUI and a lot more.
Oh and did I mention that SuSE automatically detected my K7V onboard-sound, my Netgear LAN adapter and my Matrox G400 while on Windows 9x I had to install all 3 with vendor CDs/diskettes?
Well, I think you are forgetting that probably ~90% of those kids will NEVER use a computer for anything other than e-mail and web surfing.
Maybe. 10 years ago few people would have predicted that something like websurfing would become important.
But let's assume that the computing needs will stay as they are now forever:
In a programming class - Linux all the way, but when trying to teach kids PRACTICAL skills, then Windows, MSO, and IE are what they should be learning.
Can you please tell me how IE differs in usage to Mozilla or Konqueror? StarOffice and MS Office?
How does manipulating windows or running programs in KDE and Windows differ?
Exactly these skills can also be taught with Linux without problems whatever.
BTW, 5 years ago, Netscape was the "standard". IE won't stay on top forever. Just in case you've been sleeping under a rock: Linux is already the "standard" on embedded devices and with embedded devices pushing on the net, the portable Mozilla is more likely to be the "standard" in 10 years than the x86-only Windows-only IE. (No the Mac version does not count)
I don't like it any more than you, and I am NOT an MS appologist, but I am a realist, and reality (unfortunatly) is currently windows-centric.
Yes, currently. But Windows is also changing. It does not matter if you "learned" on Win3.11 or fvwm, today. It won't matter if you "learn" KDE or WinXP in a couple of years.
BTW, just like the proprietary hardware-platforms, the proprietary software platforms are doomed in the end. It's just a matter of time.
In the early 90's, Microsoft smashed several competitors and took over the Office market and now gets nearly half the revenue out of it.
In the late 90's, Microsoft had to GIVE AWAY Internet Explorer and had to use blackmail, lies and a lot of money to crush a SMALL STARTUP COMPANY with only a handful of employees. IE does not create any revenue for Microsoft, it's not the great victory, MS-marketing wants us to think.
Microsoft is already on the decline and they know it.
This is the greatest nonsense I've read for a long time.
I've installed SuSE 7.3 for a friend and he knows absolutely zero about computers (don't know the difference between USB and parport printers - he even called me to plug in his printer because he did not want to do it himself!)
He has absolutely no problems using KDE and StarOffice.
Linux ALLOWS you to learn more about computers but it does not FORCE you (anymore).
So you've never used Linux, yet you think that you have to recompile the kernel daily? I haven't recompiled a kernel on my desktop machine for over 2 years now.
I doubt that any software suites for Linux are 100% like Microsoft's products.
I doubt that in a couple of years, any Microsoft products are 100% like today's Microsoft products.
Why does everyone silently assume that Windows is easier than KDE?
Have you seen a REAL NEWBIE struggling with Windows?
I have and believe me, they don't know where to double-click and where to single-click.
For real newbies, KDE is far easier to use than Windows.
Could you please elaborate why pupils who have used KDE/Linux would be crippled if they would have to use Windows later at work?
Because the start-button has a different color? Because some button in StarOffice looks a bit different than in MS Office?
Oh my, the color of the start button just changed with WinXP, so according to your logic all the Windows-education over the years went to hell, right?
The fundamental concepts (moving the mouse, clicking on icons, manipulating windows, etc.) are the same and the differences among Win3.11/Win95/WinXP are as big as between Win and KDE.
Oh my god, clicking on a KDE-icon is soooo different than clicking on a Windows-icon.
It depends on what the children shall learn:
Is it word-processing/spreadsheet etc, then MS Office and StarOffice are equally adequate since in a couple of years, the difference between the versions will be greater than the difference between SO and MSO.
Is it programming (which was the ONLY thing I was ever taught in the computer lab, BTW.), then Linux is a lot better because it offers much deeper insights.
In general, the "We must use Windows because it's the standard" argument is moot for schools because Windows changes very fast. What does Win3.11 knowledge help you with WinXP?
I am sure to be modded down for trolling, but I think this is a valid point.
No, this is slashdot, and the Microsoft-apologists have taken over. I've even seen a couple modded-up-to-5 posts of "RedHat isn't doing that for the kids, just for themselves" - as if RedHat was the company that lied in court, forged evidence, destroyed competition and blackmailed computer-makers and needs to be punished.
In fact RedHat said they would love to be "punished" like Microsoft.
First of all, there is a reason for Sony to still sell the PS-One.
The reason is that the PS1 is good enough for pretty much everything and only very, very few games really need the computing power of the PS2.
Now Microsoft wants to get into the market and creates a box that is more powerful and a lot more expensive to manufacture than the PS2 - Are you kidding me?
Just to check if I understand:
You say that Sony who do several times the revenue of Microsoft worldwide can be crushed by Microsoft like a tiny startup founded by a handful of people that Netscape was?
You really think that?
Really?
Huh?
What benefits?
Putting everything in one file (binary or not) is a pretty stupid idea. /etc files and the KDE config files.
I just upgraded my distro and was very happy that I could copy single per-app configfiles instead of the whole "registry" (that may not work). This happyness is about both the
Sun has changed their desktop so often that I would not be surprised if they switch to KDE next week and pretend Gnome never existed.
Well, OK maybe that was a bit exagerated. But Google is certainly popular and is not connected to Linux in any way as a website.
Just out of curiosity, are you willing to admit that Linux on the desktop is just not there, or do you "just know" that it's better than what the numbers show?
Technically it's there. I installed SuSE 7.2 on a friend's machine and he's quite happy because StarOffice 5.2 can open .doc files that his Office97 can't do. (No, buying Office2K or OfficeXP is not an option)
The only thing still missing is Windows-compatibility, well Wine is just solving that problem.
Google is the most popular search engine, that's a fact.
Of course the statistic is not perfect, but since google is the most popular search engine and probably even the most popular site, it's THE BEST STATISTIC YOU CAN GET.
Google sais: 1.18%, maybe the real number is a bit higher or a bit lower, but CERTAINLY above 0.1% which is absolutely ridiculous.
Oh, and FUDing Linux with "Nobody uses it" and calling people who dare to look at real life statistics crack addicts, *IS* Linux-bashing.
BTW, the market-share in Europe is a lot higher (because of SuSE), for example this non-Linux and non-Technical german satire magazine has those stats:
Konqueror: 0.8% rising quickly (0.44% 2 months ago)
Mozilla: 2.8% also rising quickly (1.65% 2 months ago)
oh, and "Opera/Linux" entries add up to 0.32%
That's typical. If you don't know any arguments any more, just attack the messenger. Somebody who does not bash Linux must be on crack, right?
Anyway, seems like I was quite right, as I've found the google-statistics:
Google-Statistics
So it's 1.18%, that's pretty well in the 1% to 2% range I guestimated.
And it's more than 11 times the 0.1% you Linux-haters guessed and said it's "generous".
Oh, and please not that these statistics are installed base, not marketshare. Actual desktop-marketshare is certainly higher than 1.12%.
Take a look at Webserver stats
Konqueror, a Unix/Linux-only browser has 1.23% marketshare and Mozilla, which is also strong on Linux has over 7%.
So I'd say 5% Linux marketshare is realistic for that site. Of course it is a developer site, but 1% to 2% overall desktop-Linux marketshare is realistic.