I felt someone had to stand up for AIX, cause well, it got me a job at one point, and you're the only one who will! `8r) but I still say I was dead on about the 'smit' crack. heh
As far as the a brand new IBM box beating a Solaris box.... that's not bad for a box that first started shipping in March 1997. It just got leapfrogged 3 years later for some odd reason... `8r)
But... he did popularize the usage of the 'Information Superhighway', which I'm sure he doesn't want to take credit for now.
But there are just more more credible quotes to make fun of rather than the same one OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. you know, ones where they said what they meant and it still came out wrong...
(April 20, 2000) Up to recently, Network Solutions Inc. (NSI) used a Sun E10000, one of the powerhouses of the computer world. But recently, they've moved to a brand new IBM RS/6000 S80. What brought on this startling change? The Dali Lama caught up with someone from NSI recently and here's what went on.
"Well, it all started with Comdex last year." says J.R. Bob Dobbs, VP of Sales at NSI. "Sally over in Marketing talked to this really cool guy at the IBM exihibit. Anyway, he said he could get this really great deal on this new equipment they had coming out. and she said to me 'Wow, think of the free publicity...' and we just knew we had to move. Besides, the old E10000 allows you to do maintance while part of it isn't working, and I'd rather it just stop working while someone is fixing it! I mean, when you blow a tire on your car, do you want it to actually keep driving instead of forcing you to pull over! Come on, that's dumb!"
But what of the costs of migrating to an entirely new Unix platform? and the support costs? Dobbs commented "Well, the migration wasn't very easy, but after calling IBM technical support every day for the past month, hiring IBM global services to come out and fix it repeatedly, and firing our entire Solaris loving admin staff, we're through the migration already! I don't care if the new Sun processors and new 128 processor machine is coming out in six months, I want to spam the domain owners now! Besides, IBM assured us that he would install this great tool called 'smit' on the machine. Hell, I'm the Systems Engineer now! I don't even know what it's doing, I just point and click and it does stuff! Think about the huge amounts of savings with Administrative staff! Besides, IBM assures me I won't need anything but smit! I'm even IBM certified!"
And what of the older processes still in place, like mail forms for registration names, and sending 'CRYPT-PW' via mail? Bob quickly snarled back with "Oh, you want security? wah, go cry in your milk, you linux pussy. I got the root server, fuck off."
Obviously, great things are instore for NSI in the future.
[note: Sorry if I'm a little biased, but how probable is this scenerio? Anyone else ever dealt NSI or IBM on a 'professional' level? And yes, it's all a joke. J.R. Bob Dobbs is entirely too cool to talk to the Dali Lama.]
The sad part is he was almost right, just you have to know your history. He sponsored the bill that got the Internet started, back when it was just arpanet and a couple researchers.
It's great to have a good laugh at politians talking out their ass, but the scary part is he was there at the begining, even if only as a politian. course, he still can't debug a tcp/ip stack. `8r)
Just wanted to comment that Greg Bear's Blood Music is much closer to happening than we think. While I'm not an alarmist, it would not be difficult to get these types of things progressing to a intelligent level once you make the first steps into tiny machines.
In the book, (originally a short story) a scientist manages to create an intelligent Lymphocite, which is the white blood cells, the 'Cops' of the Cardiovascular system. They end up in his own blood stream, and convert his body to a super healthy state, including restructuring his bones for more optimal movement and to prevent damage. Anyway, some more stuff happens, I won't ruin it. It's really good.
I had read the short story years ago, but the book picks up where the short story just got interesting. Highly recommend it.
I just wanted to point out that Curtis Preston works for Collective Technologies (my company as well) and drew upon resources from our company to help him write it. We have experts in a lot of different areas, and their input helped quite a bit. It's as much of a win for our company as it is for Curtis.
I think this type collabration is the spirit of the Open Source movement, the spirit of cooperation towards a common goal. After all, the tag line of Collective Technologies is 'The power of many minds.'
I guess I should also point out that our company is the exclusive onsite support for Redhat as well, so we have way too many Linux experts for our own good. `8r)
Very true. The use of this specific tool is a sign of pre-meditation and is harder to prove.
What I was refering to was use of possibly other admin tools, such as netcat or nmap, which can be used for more than just computer havoc. Hence, the sensationalist story doesn't *quite* hold up.
But I think most of here are in agreement on that. Except maybe Anonymous Coward.
Owning a crowbar for use in opening locks, it's questionable.
Owning a crowbar for possible use in killing living beings, a bit more questionable.
Owning a crowbar for bashing people's heads in plain sight, most likely illegal.
I think this is a very poor arguement. It's quite clear that these two were busted for illegal use of the 'tools' and they are just trying to bring as many charges as possible against the two. That way, that's one more charge that they have to plea bargin down.
I know I have been burned by this issue myself once or twice, but it's important to establish intent to use a weapon/tool. I might own a gun and be just a hunter. Or I might own a gun and use it to shoot children. Our country has decided that intent is more important than the possiblities of danger. And well.. that's a whole different issue. `8r)
-- Gonzo Granzeau
Re:Once again, name a major hack due to SSH flaws
on
SSH v. SRP
·
· Score: 2
What part of 'I was hit with [a security issue with ssh]' don't you understand?
Someone breached my network because of ssh. How 'secure' is that? It should be a solution, not the problem.
unencrypted telnet? I'll admit it's not the safest thing in the world, but I don't have a false sense of security, and I havn't had someone break in since sshd was removed.
Of course, I'll point out that this was all ssh1, not ssh2.
-- Gonzo Granzeau
Re:Once again, name a major hack due to SSH flaws
on
SSH v. SRP
·
· Score: 2
Hrm.
Having my box compromised due to someone evading tcp wrappers, or talking unencrypted.
One way, my box is hacked. The other, someone *might* be able to snoop me, assuming they have some node between myself and my box.
-- Gonzo Granzeau
Re:SSH, what a misnomer.
on
SSH v. SRP
·
· Score: 1
Just to justify myself, having gotten burned by sshd before (twice even. `8r/), I've included URL's to make you all snuggily happy.
Now what would happen I used a more current source of attacks? There were a couple on BugTraq a couple months ago.
And don't tell me that 'patches come out quickly' because the bounce attacks were not patched for several weeks, and I know, because I was hit with them. So it might sound like just hype, but there is proof out there.
And I forgot, just because URL's were not included, I have no clue, right? Happier?
There's been how many bounce attacks and remote security issues with it? I know they designed it to be encrypted, but how about following up on the 'Secure' part of the name! I ended up not running it BECAUSE of the security issues it caused!
At the time, it looked like it was some annoying irc related product, and as you might know, sys admins are overworked. Hence I had to fix this, report the problem to the upstream, and make a report to my boss, along with the rest of my work.
Hence, reporting a script kiddie didn't seem like a big deal to me. because it was definately a manufactured root kit, with no knowledge required, otherwise they would have gotten the ftp ls as well.
A very important key was put forth in this interview that should be pushed to the rest of the world.
Nothing can replace proper Systems Administration.
As a real world example of this, I busted a TFN client that appeared on two Suns we had 2 days after they appeared (These were non-used systems, I just noticed the network traffic). The traffic was high, I didn't believe the results that the rootkit were telling me, and found the kit and client (Thank you ftp's static ls!). And this was before TFN was out on BugTraQ and other security mailing lists! I didn't know what it was, so I just cleaned up the systems, and threw a P-90 Linux firewall in between. Also notified the uplink that they were the ones talking to the client. (Strange udp packets incoming are not to be trusted!) Now that's proper Systems Administration!
Oh, and to sell people on my company, Collective Technologies, all we do is Systems Administration (and networks and DBA's now too). The best of the best sys admins out there... `8r)
There is a more complete version of the story on CNN.
They point out that AOL did it to reduce competition from other ISP's (such as Prodigy) and the question 'Do you want AOL to be your default ISP?' is the setup part that causes problems.
[Agent Smith] "You want your data back? oh. Sorry, the data on the laptop is gone. Bob tried to install Linux on it."
[Bob] "Whoops, my bad. FIPS didn't like your drives."
[Agent Smith] "You must supply me with the codes to Zion's mainframe now!
Problem solved, no court-case now concerning encryption, especially when they are in such a poor position. I don't like Kevin (for being a punk) but it wouldn't look good for the government if they tried to force the encryption issue now.
A large portion of the reading audience of GameSpy will be younger gamers with very little knowledge of Object Oriented Programming. Some with no programming experience, or interest in such programming.
Also, most will be hardcore gamers, which isn't always the same as hardcore geeks. These people are interested to hear that their hobbies are near the cutting edge of technology. And with the right development cycle, computer gaming has the capability of *always* being near the fore-front of the technological edge.
Because you all remember when running a phone-book type database was 'cutting edge' on D-Base III, right? `8r)
Disclaimer: I'm the Unix admin for GSI, running the chat portions.
The only reason I pointed this out is because we recently installed a P-90 as a NAT in our environment. An Intern in the building put the pieces and the OS in 2 hours, I secured it and got it NATing the entire network in another hour.
We were going to purchase an Ultra 1 running Netra or FW-1, which could have cost us around 3k-20k. How much of a price difference do you need, because there is a piece of deadweight PC (in our environment, cause we have win2k) versus a very useful workstation that is wasted doing NAT.
And the Linux community knows where our shortcomings are (multi-threaded tcp stack, higher fd lists, better SMP support) and they are getting worked on. But it's good to know that at the low end of the spectrum, Linux has the cheap and easy solution. Anything you throw a lot of money at is going to work better than something that recieves almost no money, on average anyway.
(This is what I sent her. Feel free to rip off entire paragraphs, or even send a physical copy, which I did not do.)
I recently became aware of a bill you have propsed concerning two seperate issues for university students. One is the preventing of guests of the opposite sex in their rooms. The other is concerning filters to be placed on university internet connections, to prevent unethical use. I felt it would be important to get a feeling of the people you are representing in this bill.
First I'd like to address the issue of censorship. Who are you to propose what is 'proper' for a student to view? Most college students are 18 when they reach college, and hence are viewed by the state as an adult. As an adult, you are able to be tried for the death penalty, and have all the responsibility associated along with being 'an adult'. Because of all the pornography on the internet, I can understand your concern for wanting to limit internet usage for 'specific educational purposes'. But, who is to decide what is 'decent' for college students to view? In most college universities, it would be an over-worked administrator. Having been a network administrator at a State University, I can say that instituting this policy will be difficult and unrewarding. However, should each college administrator 'decide' what is 'educational'?
For instance, being a party-independant canidate, I might block all access to Republican web pages, but let through an alternate candidates site?
This has too much room for abuse and negligence. Also, it is censorship in it's purest form. By placing restrictions on students viewpoints, we limit their possibilites as individuals in this nation of ours. A universities choice in what they want to block on the internet is their choice. If they have half of their resources consumed by students going to a pornography site, I'm sure they will take care of the problem. A more conservative school might choose to block all non-educational sites.
But any school that my son or daughter attends will have full access to any materials that are legally available on the internet. They are adults, and I will raise them with the accordingly appropriate values that I believe in. And as they are adults, they are competent to decide for themselves where their interests lie.
The other issue is one of opposite sex visitations. This is also censorship in the expression of the students, and encourages sexism. And the same rules can be made as above with each school deciding. At the state-sponsored university I attended, there were coed and single sex dorms. I chose to be in a coed dorm, because it's important to be able to socialize with everyone, not just people of your own gender.
I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the best chance that people of this generation get to socialize is at college. Your best chance as a single guy is while at college, with a higher chance of the proposed mate being both intelligent and unmarried. This takes away a huge social element for today's youth.
Also, it encourages males to be friends with other males, and females to be friends with other females. While in college, about half of my friends were female, and I would not restrict people's choice in friends. This encourages people to consider the opposite gender as 'different' which encourages sexism.
Finally, any values I've instilled in my offspring I believe will reflect their behavior in the dormatories. and if I'm a good parent, they will behave as I consider to be proper. And that is my own decision, not my governments.
This bill represents a blow to censorship, and obviously displays your distain for young adults everywhere. While your position in the Republican party might not rely on the youth vote for your current position, I encourage you to realize that Censorship in any form is the first step towards a Socialist state, and not a democracy. How soon till we start to censor state-sponsored atrocities, in interest of protecting adults?
College students are adults and should be treated as such.
Thank you for your time.
Benjamin "Gonzo" Granzeau, age 25, male
(Feel free to use any of the above message in the spirit intended. Also, if you would like to speak to me in person about the above topic, I would be happy to call you to help.)
Slashdot Mirror
I felt someone had to stand up for AIX, cause well, it got me a job at one point, and you're the only one who will! `8r) but I still say I was dead on about the 'smit' crack. heh
As far as the a brand new IBM box beating a Solaris box.... that's not bad for a box that first started shipping in March 1997. It just got leapfrogged 3 years later for some odd reason... `8r)
--
Gonzo Granzeau
But there are just more more credible quotes to make fun of rather than the same one OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. you know, ones where they said what they meant and it still came out wrong...
--
Gonzo Granzeau
(April 20, 2000) Up to recently, Network Solutions Inc. (NSI) used a Sun E10000, one of the powerhouses of the computer world. But recently, they've moved to a brand new IBM RS/6000 S80. What brought on this startling change? The Dali Lama caught up with someone from NSI recently and here's what went on.
"Well, it all started with Comdex last year." says J.R. Bob Dobbs, VP of Sales at NSI. "Sally over in Marketing talked to this really cool guy at the IBM exihibit. Anyway, he said he could get this really great deal on this new equipment they had coming out. and she said to me 'Wow, think of the free publicity...' and we just knew we had to move. Besides, the old E10000 allows you to do maintance while part of it isn't working, and I'd rather it just stop working while someone is fixing it! I mean, when you blow a tire on your car, do you want it to actually keep driving instead of forcing you to pull over! Come on, that's dumb!"
But what of the costs of migrating to an entirely new Unix platform? and the support costs? Dobbs commented "Well, the migration wasn't very easy, but after calling IBM technical support every day for the past month, hiring IBM global services to come out and fix it repeatedly, and firing our entire Solaris loving admin staff, we're through the migration already! I don't care if the new Sun processors and new 128 processor machine is coming out in six months, I want to spam the domain owners now! Besides, IBM assured us that he would install this great tool called 'smit' on the machine. Hell, I'm the Systems Engineer now! I don't even know what it's doing, I just point and click and it does stuff! Think about the huge amounts of savings with Administrative staff! Besides, IBM assures me I won't need anything but smit! I'm even IBM certified!"
And what of the older processes still in place, like mail forms for registration names, and sending 'CRYPT-PW' via mail? Bob quickly snarled back with "Oh, you want security? wah, go cry in your milk, you linux pussy. I got the root server, fuck off."
Obviously, great things are instore for NSI in the future.
[note: Sorry if I'm a little biased, but how probable is this scenerio? Anyone else ever dealt NSI or IBM on a 'professional' level? And yes, it's all a joke. J.R. Bob Dobbs is entirely too cool to talk to the Dali Lama.]
--
Gonzo Granzeau
The sad part is he was almost right, just you have to know your history. He sponsored the bill that got the Internet started, back when it was just arpanet and a couple researchers.
It's great to have a good laugh at politians talking out their ass, but the scary part is he was there at the begining, even if only as a politian. course, he still can't debug a tcp/ip stack. `8r)
--
Gonzo Granzeau
In the book, (originally a short story) a scientist manages to create an intelligent Lymphocite, which is the white blood cells, the 'Cops' of the Cardiovascular system. They end up in his own blood stream, and convert his body to a super healthy state, including restructuring his bones for more optimal movement and to prevent damage. Anyway, some more stuff happens, I won't ruin it. It's really good.
I had read the short story years ago, but the book picks up where the short story just got interesting. Highly recommend it.
--
Gonzo Granzeau
Can you run Beowulf on them? `8r)
--
Gonzo Granzeau
I think this type collabration is the spirit of the Open Source movement, the spirit of cooperation towards a common goal. After all, the tag line of Collective Technologies is 'The power of many minds.'
I guess I should also point out that our company is the exclusive onsite support for Redhat as well, so we have way too many Linux experts for our own good. `8r)
--
Gonzo Granzeau
But does he dream of Aibo's or Electric sheep?
--
Gonzo Granzeau
average geek my ass!!
*removes +1 bonus*
--
Gonzo Granzeau
What I was refering to was use of possibly other admin tools, such as netcat or nmap, which can be used for more than just computer havoc. Hence, the sensationalist story doesn't *quite* hold up.
But I think most of here are in agreement on that. Except maybe Anonymous Coward.
--
Gonzo Granzeau
Owning a crowbar for use in opening locks, it's questionable.
Owning a crowbar for possible use in killing living beings, a bit more questionable.
Owning a crowbar for bashing people's heads in plain sight, most likely illegal.
I think this is a very poor arguement. It's quite clear that these two were busted for illegal use of the 'tools' and they are just trying to bring as many charges as possible against the two. That way, that's one more charge that they have to plea bargin down.
I know I have been burned by this issue myself once or twice, but it's important to establish intent to use a weapon/tool. I might own a gun and be just a hunter. Or I might own a gun and use it to shoot children. Our country has decided that intent is more important than the possiblities of danger. And well.. that's a whole different issue. `8r)
--
Gonzo Granzeau
Someone breached my network because of ssh. How 'secure' is that? It should be a solution, not the problem.
unencrypted telnet? I'll admit it's not the safest thing in the world, but I don't have a false sense of security, and I havn't had someone break in since sshd was removed.
Of course, I'll point out that this was all ssh1, not ssh2.
--
Gonzo Granzeau
Having my box compromised due to someone evading tcp wrappers, or talking unencrypted.
One way, my box is hacked. The other, someone *might* be able to snoop me, assuming they have some node between myself and my box.
--
Gonzo Granzeau
Here's a buffer overflow.
Here's a bounce attack
Here's another one.
Now what would happen I used a more current source of attacks? There were a couple on BugTraq a couple months ago...
--
Gonzo Granzeau
Here's a buffer overflow.
Here's a bounce attack
Here's another one.
Now what would happen I used a more current source of attacks? There were a couple on BugTraq a couple months ago.
And don't tell me that 'patches come out quickly' because the bounce attacks were not patched for several weeks, and I know, because I was hit with them. So it might sound like just hype, but there is proof out there.
And I forgot, just because URL's were not included, I have no clue, right? Happier?
--
Gonzo Granzeau
There's been how many bounce attacks and remote security issues with it? I know they designed it to be encrypted, but how about following up on the 'Secure' part of the name! I ended up not running it BECAUSE of the security issues it caused!
--
Gonzo Granzeau
At the time, it looked like it was some annoying irc related product, and as you might know, sys admins are overworked. Hence I had to fix this, report the problem to the upstream, and make a report to my boss, along with the rest of my work.
Hence, reporting a script kiddie didn't seem like a big deal to me. because it was definately a manufactured root kit, with no knowledge required, otherwise they would have gotten the ftp ls as well.
If I had a dollar for every script kiddie....
--
Gonzo Granzeau
Nothing can replace proper Systems Administration.
As a real world example of this, I busted a TFN client that appeared on two Suns we had 2 days after they appeared (These were non-used systems, I just noticed the network traffic). The traffic was high, I didn't believe the results that the rootkit were telling me, and found the kit and client (Thank you ftp's static ls!). And this was before TFN was out on BugTraQ and other security mailing lists! I didn't know what it was, so I just cleaned up the systems, and threw a P-90 Linux firewall in between. Also notified the uplink that they were the ones talking to the client. (Strange udp packets incoming are not to be trusted!) Now that's proper Systems Administration!
Oh, and to sell people on my company, Collective Technologies, all we do is Systems Administration (and networks and DBA's now too). The best of the best sys admins out there... `8r)
--
Gonzo Granzeau
They point out that AOL did it to reduce competition from other ISP's (such as Prodigy) and the question 'Do you want AOL to be your default ISP?' is the setup part that causes problems.
Teaches people right not read their License Agreement.
This could be very bad precident to be set by courts, with poor documentation being grounds for a Class Action Suit.
--
Gonzo Granzeau
[Agent Smith] "You want your data back? oh. Sorry, the data on the laptop is gone. Bob tried to install Linux on it."
[Bob] "Whoops, my bad. FIPS didn't like your drives."
[Agent Smith] "You must supply me with the codes to Zion's mainframe now!
Problem solved, no court-case now concerning encryption, especially when they are in such a poor position. I don't like Kevin (for being a punk) but it wouldn't look good for the government if they tried to force the encryption issue now.
--
Gonzo Granzeau
And I happen to be running a NAT on a P-90 as a business critical box for 200 some people. Using Linux.
--
Gonzo Granzeau
Also, most will be hardcore gamers, which isn't always the same as hardcore geeks. These people are interested to hear that their hobbies are near the cutting edge of technology. And with the right development cycle, computer gaming has the capability of *always* being near the fore-front of the technological edge.
Because you all remember when running a phone-book type database was 'cutting edge' on D-Base III, right? `8r)
Disclaimer: I'm the Unix admin for GSI, running the chat portions.
--
Gonzo Granzeau
We were going to purchase an Ultra 1 running Netra or FW-1, which could have cost us around 3k-20k. How much of a price difference do you need, because there is a piece of deadweight PC (in our environment, cause we have win2k) versus a very useful workstation that is wasted doing NAT.
And the Linux community knows where our shortcomings are (multi-threaded tcp stack, higher fd lists, better SMP support) and they are getting worked on. But it's good to know that at the low end of the spectrum, Linux has the cheap and easy solution. Anything you throw a lot of money at is going to work better than something that recieves almost no money, on average anyway.
--
Gonzo Granzeau
Novel 5.1 had difficulty, but was able to do simple file and print sharing. However, it had difficulty doing anything else.
SCO hung on the install, seemingly unhappy with it's non-compliant hardware.
RedHat installed easily, and made a fine NAT, file server, web server, and whatever else we wanted to use it for.
Windows 2000 laughed at us. It was a humbling experience.
--
Gonzo Granzeau
(This is what I sent her. Feel free to rip off entire paragraphs, or even send a physical copy, which I did not do.)
I recently became aware of a bill you have propsed concerning two seperate issues for university students. One is the preventing of guests of the opposite sex in their rooms. The other is concerning filters to be placed on university internet connections, to prevent unethical use. I felt it would be important to get a feeling of the people you are representing in this bill.
First I'd like to address the issue of censorship. Who are you to propose what is 'proper' for a student to view? Most college students are 18 when they reach college, and hence are viewed by the state as an adult. As an adult, you are able to be tried for the death penalty, and have all the responsibility associated along with being 'an adult'. Because of all the pornography on the internet, I can understand your concern for wanting to limit internet usage for 'specific educational purposes'. But, who is to decide what is 'decent' for college students to view? In most college universities, it would be an over-worked administrator. Having been a network administrator at a State University, I can say that instituting this policy will be difficult and unrewarding. However, should each college
administrator 'decide' what is 'educational'?
For instance, being a party-independant canidate, I might block all access to Republican web pages, but let through an alternate candidates site?
This has too much room for abuse and negligence. Also, it is censorship in it's purest form. By placing restrictions on students viewpoints, we limit their possibilites as individuals in this nation of ours. A universities choice in what they want to block on the internet is their choice. If they have half of their resources consumed by students going to a pornography site, I'm sure they will take care of the problem. A more conservative school might choose to block all non-educational sites.
But any school that my son or daughter attends will have full access to any materials that are legally available on the internet. They are adults, and I will raise them with the accordingly appropriate values that I believe in. And as they are adults, they are competent to decide for themselves where their interests lie.
The other issue is one of opposite sex visitations. This is also censorship in the expression of the students, and encourages sexism. And the same rules can be made as above with each school deciding. At the state-sponsored university I attended, there were coed and single sex dorms. I chose to be in a coed dorm, because it's important to be able to socialize with everyone, not just people of your own gender.
I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the best chance that people of this generation get to socialize is at college. Your best chance as a single guy is while at college, with a higher chance of the proposed mate being both intelligent and unmarried. This takes away a huge social element for today's youth.
Also, it encourages males to be friends with other males, and females to be friends with other females. While in college, about half of my friends were female, and I would not restrict people's choice in friends. This encourages people to consider the opposite gender as 'different' which encourages sexism.
Finally, any values I've instilled in my offspring I believe will reflect their behavior in the dormatories. and if I'm a good parent, they will behave as I consider to be proper. And that is my own decision, not my governments.
This bill represents a blow to censorship, and obviously displays your distain for young adults everywhere. While your position in the Republican party might not rely on the youth vote for your current position, I encourage you to realize that Censorship in any form is the first step towards a Socialist state, and not a democracy. How soon till we start to censor state-sponsored atrocities, in interest of protecting adults?
College students are adults and should be treated as such.
Thank you for your time.
Benjamin "Gonzo" Granzeau, age 25, male
(Feel free to use any of the above message in the spirit intended. Also, if you would like to speak to me in person about the above topic, I would be happy to call you to help.)
--
Gonzo Granzeau