That violent games can translate to aggression in young boys I think is fairly easy to illustrate
I dunno... I think young boys are naturally aggressive. I'm not sure my two sons would be any less aggressive if we lived out on a farm in the 1800's...
We don't allow 12 year olds to see rated R movies (okay, we've all snuck into a movie that aside...). We don't allow them to view porn. We shouldn't allow them to buy violent video games
IF "we" means "my wife and I", fine... If "we" means "Congress", NO WAY! As far as I am concerned my duty as a parent is to make the decisions for my sons that they cannot make. Nobody else has that right (well, except my wife:-) ). Have you watched "American Chopper"? They bleep the bad words, but there's no mistaking what they are. This would definitely be "R" rated if it were an unbleeped movie. But I let my 9-year old watch it. Why? Because he's not the type to go running around swearing, because he knows it's not OK. My 5-year old, however, has some trouble with that:-), so he doesn't watch... MY kids, MY decision... And I am willing to admit failures when they occur, fix them, and move on... It's called life...
Hmmmm... For a while, the market for OEM versions of XP on eBay has been quite active. I wonder if this will make anyone think twice?
Or maybe it is an attempt to shut down this market....
Supposedly, it was "legal" to sell these copies with a qualifying piece of hardware. But now, If I have to call up to activate, and I tell them I bought my copy on eBay, will they refuse?
Nobody puts weight on the paper because everyone knows that schools do not prepare programmers for the real world
... Maybe true for getting in the door and hiring, but as far as starting salary, it makes a difference. I was working for a company for about three years, when I was told at my review why I was getting such a large raise. I was hired at "lower than usual" salary because my degree was from a not-so-well-known state school (University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth -- formerly SMU -- Southeastern Mass, not Southern Methodist:-) ). The large raise was to bring me in line with the rest of the developers, most of whom graduated from "name brand" universities, because I had proven myself.
This is not such a bad suggestion... My cousin, upon my graduation from High School, gave me a copy of Dr. Seuss' "Oh, The Places You'll Go". Originally meant for a kid growing up, it fit perfectly to my situation, and gave me some hope for my future.
Yep, Two boys ages 4 and 8 (see my reply above). I am worried about the accidental slips, but to be honest, I supervise my sons in the Internet because they might try looking (my 8-year old son knows a few kids in school who have most likely heard of www.playboy.com already...).
As a comparison, I also monitor their TV use. Am I in the room every minute checking up? No. Has my 8-year old tried watching something inappropriate? Hell, yes, but when I caught him, I didn't sue Comcast, or the TV maker, or write a letter to Congress. I kicked myself in the rear for not supervising him. I then explained what was wrong with the show he was watching, and tossed in some light discipline to make it stick. So far, so good...
The fundamental flaw with this... is the notion that kids under the age of 13 or so should be left alone to browse the net.
Fully agree...
My 8-year old has a list of bookmarks for sites that he is allowed by me to access. Additions to the list are pre-screened by me, and I'm not afraid to tell him why something will not get on the list. I try to hide the Address box so that he can't type in URLs, but sometimes I do forget... Not that it much matters. I have his computer in plain sight of mine, and I watch him on the 'Net, if I am not interacting with him at the time. I also monitor TV usage, friends that he plays with, etc...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not micro-managing him, nor am I always in his face. He has my trust and confidence to make a decision on his own. If I feel he makes the wrong one, I try to educate and guide him, and discipline if necessary.
Not quite.... I own a Ford Taurus Station Wagon, and it's great! Got it fully loaded (except for traction control and multi-disc CD player) for about $10K LESS than a new minivan, and it hauls myself, my wife, and my two kids around quite nicely. Even a week-long trip from Massachusetts to Washington, DC failed to fill up the cargo space. Yes, it has the 200HP V6, but it runs great and I would heartily recommend it as a minivan-alternative...
I can get all of this information without the Blackberry, but it is more convenient when I'm on foot interacting with a crowd to have the device. Push come to shove, however, and I'll take you back to the patrol car to get the information. It works for both of us, in a sense. I don't have to go back to the car to get the info, and you don't have to waste the time coming with me.
But here's where the abuse potential comes in. If it's more convenient and quicker, you'll be more likely to target everyone. If you have to drag me back to the car (or station, or wherever), chances are you'll be more sure I'm doing something wrong, and chances are you'll be right. If you can just walk up to someone and demand ID (and who would refuse in an airport in today's world?), then run me through, you'll be detaining more people unnecesarily. I have nothing to hide, but I do fear a world where I cannot move without notice. Also, what happems if I'm not there with criminal intent, but I do have a record? Does that automatically qualify me for a trip outside? Human nature being what it is, I'd rather you relied on observation, instinct and training rather than some miracle device...
I think knowing what goes on behind the scenes is a good thing. Not that every student should know how to build a computer, but if they at least know some of the basics (like a 3.5" disk is NOT a "hard disk"), then it can't hurt.
To re-use your drivers ed analogy, it would be like teaching how (or WHY) to do an oil change, or change spark plugs, or put air in the tires. Basics, that could help them out someday...
Well, that seems to be a pretty dumb argument unless you plan to train them on EVERY piece of software out there. A GUI is a GUI. Once they learn the general concepts of computing, then applying them to a specific piece of software should be a smaller learning curve.
I don't think anyone is advocating teching the *politics* of open-source. Just put the machines in front of the kids, and they will learn.
If the school is that concerned about specific training, then they can setup a 10-station Windows network, separate from everything else, and runs a few intro course in that lab. For everything else, use Free software.....
Well, I have a six-year old son, and I object to filtering mechanisms on library computers. If my son happens to be walking past a "goatse" display, you can bet he's going to come to me with questions. How do I know? Because that's the way I rasied him. I will teach him why it is offensive, and try to help him understand that there are some sick people in the world. Of course, I'll also ask the librarian to change the URL (if for some reason I can't do it myself).
I don't believe shielding children from things is the way to teach them. Obviously, I'm not showing off the stuff to him, but if it happens to come his way, I can teach him about it, instead of having him try to form his own conclusions because mommy and daddy won't talk about it... Of course I would prefer it if we lived in an idyllic world, but we don't, and my son needs to learn that we don't, so he can cope with it better when he is on his own...
What if the "legitimate request" comes from a teenager who is lying? Then the librarian has to decide how trustful the teenager is. That's not a librarian's function.
As far as "goatse", have all of the computers face the librarian's desk. It won't take too long for the site to be changed... If you are worried about your daughter not seeing these things, or hearing these things, then don't take her to the shopping mall on a Saturday night. Want to know how many times I heard the "F" word last time? Is it offensive to me, yes. Do they have the right to say it, yes...
And I do have a 6-year old son. I teach him right and wrong, and I try to be with him in situations where this may come up. Whether or not I'm with him, if he asks questions, I try to be honest with him while still telling him what is wrong with it.
If you buy a car, you certainly can sell it or give it away, and nobody is arguing that. But making an exact copy, keeping the original, and giving the copy away is something else entirely...
Read them, educate yourself, become a better person
So if I don't agree with you, I'm automatically a bad person?
And contrary to your beliefs, I am *not* trolling... I truly believe that warez is wrong...
The "freedom" is the fact that ideas represented in digital form can be duplicated and disseminated for zero cost
But it still costs money *up-front* to write the program, debug it, market it, improve it, etc. It also costs money up-front in the music and movie businesses too. How are providers supposed to recover those costs and make a profit?
If you can make an exact duplicate of my car without harming the original car, and give it out to anyone who wants it, feel free. Otherwise, your analogy is without merit.
*YOU* don't care, but I'll bet the car manufacturer cares, because that's one car less he could have sold to recover his costs (yes, yes, and make a profit too). Since it cost money to *develop* the product, and to *market* the product, and to *improve* the product, why shouldn't you have to *pay* for the product? Under your logic, once a single CD is sold, the product is then "represented in digital form", and the seller can do nothing to prevent unlimited copies from happening, thus never recovering his costs, or making a profit.
The original post was a whining rant that Tresco shouldn't do time because he "did nothing wrong". My response was simply that he should do time because he did break the law.
If you have unmarried sex in a place where it is against the law, don't complain when you get caught. You *knew* it was against the law, you did it anyway, so pay the price.
All this "high and mighty" is deflecting the real issue. warez is IN NO WAY, NOR WILL BE AT ANY TIME the moral equvalent of slavery or civil rights...
So it's not OK to steal from my poor neighbor, but it's more than right to steal from my rich neighbor?? I don't buy that...
Where I come from, stealing form anybody is wrong, no matter how rich they are. To me, warez is stealing, therefore it is wrong, and I have no problem with people doing time if they get caught...
I'm not "goose stepping"... This law fits nicely within my morals, thank you....
If the Powers That Be were to pass a law making use of the word "the" illegal, would that justify their imprisoning you for contravening that law?
Yup... I'd better stop using that word, or go to jail. Of course, I wouldn't like t*e law, and would want to change t*e law, but there are many more ways to do it without breaking t*e law. What part of that eludes you? Your original post seemed to be whining that, although he broke t*e law, it's OK because he didn't really harm anyone, and it's a stupid law. Well, in my book, that is no excuse...
If everyone were to continue using the word, and if every now and then someone were locked up for doing so, would their imprisonment be ethically justifiable?
Yes... Not everyone gets caught for speeding, but those that do have to pay the price. No, I have never "fought" a speeding ticket, although I have gotten a few. Call me a sheep, but I did break the law....
But then, I consider imprisonment for this 'crime' to be similarly absurd.
That's where we'll have to agree to disagree. I believe he got exactly what he deserved...
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How about Anna Nicole Smith or Pamela Sue Anderson or maybe Petra Verkaik? ... I'm sure either one could fill Wonder Woman's shoes admirably! :)
Or perhaps another part of her uniform?? :-)
That violent games can translate to aggression in young boys I think is fairly easy to illustrate
I dunno ... I think young boys are naturally aggressive. I'm not sure my two sons would be any less aggressive if we lived out on a farm in the 1800's...
We don't allow 12 year olds to see rated R movies (okay, we've all snuck into a movie that aside...). We don't allow them to view porn. We shouldn't allow them to buy violent video games
IF "we" means "my wife and I", fine ... If "we" means "Congress", NO WAY! As far as I am concerned my duty as a parent is to make the decisions for my sons that they cannot make. Nobody else has that right (well, except my wife :-) ). Have you watched "American Chopper"? They bleep the bad words, but there's no mistaking what they are. This would definitely be "R" rated if it were an unbleeped movie. But I let my 9-year old watch it. Why? Because he's not the type to go running around swearing, because he knows it's not OK. My 5-year old, however, has some trouble with that :-), so he doesn't watch ... MY kids, MY decision ... And I am willing to admit failures when they occur, fix them, and move on ... It's called life ...
Hmmmm... For a while, the market for OEM versions of XP on eBay has been quite active. I wonder if this will make anyone think twice?
Or maybe it is an attempt to shut down this market....
Supposedly, it was "legal" to sell these copies with a qualifying piece of hardware. But now, If I have to call up to activate, and I tell them I bought my copy on eBay, will they refuse?
Isn't this a dupe?
Nobody puts weight on the paper because everyone knows that schools do not prepare programmers for the real world
... Maybe true for getting in the door and hiring, but as far as starting salary, it makes a difference. I was working for a company for about three years, when I was told at my review why I was getting such a large raise. I was hired at "lower than usual" salary because my degree was from a not-so-well-known state school (University of Massachusetts at Dartmouth -- formerly SMU -- Southeastern Mass, not Southern Methodist :-) ). The large raise was to bring me in line with the rest of the developers, most of whom graduated from "name brand" universities, because I had proven myself.
Bill was right... Just change "OS/2" to "The parts of OS/2 that we steal from IBM and make into Windows NT"
This is not such a bad suggestion ... My cousin, upon my graduation from High School, gave me a copy of Dr. Seuss' "Oh, The Places You'll Go". Originally meant for a kid growing up, it fit perfectly to my situation, and gave me some hope for my future.
Yep, Two boys ages 4 and 8 (see my reply above). I am worried about the accidental slips, but to be honest, I supervise my sons in the Internet because they might try looking (my 8-year old son knows a few kids in school who have most likely heard of www.playboy.com already...).
As a comparison, I also monitor their TV use. Am I in the room every minute checking up? No. Has my 8-year old tried watching something inappropriate? Hell, yes, but when I caught him, I didn't sue Comcast, or the TV maker, or write a letter to Congress. I kicked myself in the rear for not supervising him. I then explained what was wrong with the show he was watching, and tossed in some light discipline to make it stick. So far, so good...
The fundamental flaw with this ... is the notion that kids under the age of 13 or so should be left alone to browse the net.
Fully agree...
My 8-year old has a list of bookmarks for sites that he is allowed by me to access. Additions to the list are pre-screened by me, and I'm not afraid to tell him why something will not get on the list. I try to hide the Address box so that he can't type in URLs, but sometimes I do forget... Not that it much matters. I have his computer in plain sight of mine, and I watch him on the 'Net, if I am not interacting with him at the time. I also monitor TV usage, friends that he plays with, etc...
Don't get me wrong, I'm not micro-managing him, nor am I always in his face. He has my trust and confidence to make a decision on his own. If I feel he makes the wrong one, I try to educate and guide him, and discipline if necessary.
You also forget the death of the Station Wagon
Not quite .... I own a Ford Taurus Station Wagon, and it's great! Got it fully loaded (except for traction control and multi-disc CD player) for about $10K LESS than a new minivan, and it hauls myself, my wife, and my two kids around quite nicely. Even a week-long trip from Massachusetts to Washington, DC failed to fill up the cargo space. Yes, it has the 200HP V6, but it runs great and I would heartily recommend it as a minivan-alternative...
I can get all of this information without the Blackberry, but it is more convenient when I'm on foot interacting with a crowd to have the device. Push come to shove, however, and I'll take you back to the patrol car to get the information. It works for both of us, in a sense. I don't have to go back to the car to get the info, and you don't have to waste the time coming with me.
But here's where the abuse potential comes in. If it's more convenient and quicker, you'll be more likely to target everyone. If you have to drag me back to the car (or station, or wherever), chances are you'll be more sure I'm doing something wrong, and chances are you'll be right. If you can just walk up to someone and demand ID (and who would refuse in an airport in today's world?), then run me through, you'll be detaining more people unnecesarily. I have nothing to hide, but I do fear a world where I cannot move without notice. Also, what happems if I'm not there with criminal intent, but I do have a record? Does that automatically qualify me for a trip outside? Human nature being what it is, I'd rather you relied on observation, instinct and training rather than some miracle device...
Ummm... Pr0n maybe?
I think knowing what goes on behind the scenes is a good thing. Not that every student should know how to build a computer, but if they at least know some of the basics (like a 3.5" disk is NOT a "hard disk"), then it can't hurt.
To re-use your drivers ed analogy, it would be like teaching how (or WHY) to do an oil change, or change spark plugs, or put air in the tires. Basics, that could help them out someday...
Well, that seems to be a pretty dumb argument unless you plan to train them on EVERY piece of software out there. A GUI is a GUI. Once they learn the general concepts of computing, then applying them to a specific piece of software should be a smaller learning curve.
.....
I don't think anyone is advocating teching the *politics* of open-source. Just put the machines in front of the kids, and they will learn.
If the school is that concerned about specific training, then they can setup a 10-station Windows network, separate from everything else, and runs a few intro course in that lab. For everything else, use Free software
Well, I have a six-year old son, and I object to filtering mechanisms on library computers. If my son happens to be walking past a "goatse" display, you can bet he's going to come to me with questions. How do I know? Because that's the way I rasied him. I will teach him why it is offensive, and try to help him understand that there are some sick people in the world. Of course, I'll also ask the librarian to change the URL (if for some reason I can't do it myself).
I don't believe shielding children from things is the way to teach them. Obviously, I'm not showing off the stuff to him, but if it happens to come his way, I can teach him about it, instead of having him try to form his own conclusions because mommy and daddy won't talk about it... Of course I would prefer it if we lived in an idyllic world, but we don't, and my son needs to learn that we don't, so he can cope with it better when he is on his own...
What if the "legitimate request" comes from a teenager who is lying? Then the librarian has to decide how trustful the teenager is. That's not a librarian's function.
As far as "goatse", have all of the computers face the librarian's desk. It won't take too long for the site to be changed... If you are worried about your daughter not seeing these things, or hearing these things, then don't take her to the shopping mall on a Saturday night. Want to know how many times I heard the "F" word last time? Is it offensive to me, yes. Do they have the right to say it, yes...
And I do have a 6-year old son. I teach him right and wrong, and I try to be with him in situations where this may come up. Whether or not I'm with him, if he asks questions, I try to be honest with him while still telling him what is wrong with it.
If you buy a car, you certainly can sell it or give it away, and nobody is arguing that. But making an exact copy, keeping the original, and giving the copy away is something else entirely...
Read them, educate yourself, become a better person
So if I don't agree with you, I'm automatically a bad person?
And contrary to your beliefs, I am *not* trolling ... I truly believe that warez is wrong...
The "freedom" is the fact that ideas represented in digital form can be duplicated and disseminated for zero cost
But it still costs money *up-front* to write the program, debug it, market it, improve it, etc. It also costs money up-front in the music and movie businesses too. How are providers supposed to recover those costs and make a profit?
If you can make an exact duplicate of my car without harming the original car, and give it out to anyone who wants it, feel free. Otherwise, your analogy is without merit.
*YOU* don't care, but I'll bet the car manufacturer cares, because that's one car less he could have sold to recover his costs (yes, yes, and make a profit too). Since it cost money to *develop* the product, and to *market* the product, and to *improve* the product, why shouldn't you have to *pay* for the product? Under your logic, once a single CD is sold, the product is then "represented in digital form", and the seller can do nothing to prevent unlimited copies from happening, thus never recovering his costs, or making a profit.
So you HONESTLY think warez trading is the moral equivalent of the Undergound Railroad?
...
Good luck, man...
All this back and forth is getting a bit nuts
Can you show me what "right" is being taken away by software manufacturers? Can you show me what "freedom" is being damaged here?
I can understand and certainly agree with the moral outrage about slavery, but I just don't see the reason for the moral outrage here...
Please don't just reflect this back at me as my great grandfather, OK? Let's have a talk...
Do you also think all physical products should be free (beer and speech)?
If not, why not?
What is the differemce between distributing warez and stealing cars?
OK, cool, so it's OK if I come to your house and "share" your TV, your car, your computer, and anything else I can find without your permission?
What is the "freedom" that is being taken away by content providers and copyright holder saying you cannot distribute copies of their stuff?
Why is warez sharing different from me stealing your car, and giving it out to whoever wants it?
So if you buy a book, and make copies of the book, then that's fine and dandy to distribute them too??
The original post was a whining rant that Tresco shouldn't do time because he "did nothing wrong". My response was simply that he should do time because he did break the law.
If you have unmarried sex in a place where it is against the law, don't complain when you get caught. You *knew* it was against the law, you did it anyway, so pay the price.
All this "high and mighty" is deflecting the real issue. warez is IN NO WAY, NOR WILL BE AT ANY TIME the moral equvalent of slavery or civil rights...
So it's not OK to steal from my poor neighbor, but it's more than right to steal from my rich neighbor?? I don't buy that...
...
... This law fits nicely within my morals, thank you....
Where I come from, stealing form anybody is wrong, no matter how rich they are. To me, warez is stealing, therefore it is wrong, and I have no problem with people doing time if they get caught
I'm not "goose stepping"
If the Powers That Be were to pass a law making use of the word "the" illegal, would that justify their imprisoning you for contravening that law?
Yup ... I'd better stop using that word, or go to jail. Of course, I wouldn't like t*e law, and would want to change t*e law, but there are many more ways to do it without breaking t*e law. What part of that eludes you? Your original post seemed to be whining that, although he broke t*e law, it's OK because he didn't really harm anyone, and it's a stupid law. Well, in my book, that is no excuse...
If everyone were to continue using the word, and if every now and then someone were locked up for doing so, would their imprisonment be ethically justifiable?
Yes ... Not everyone gets caught for speeding, but those that do have to pay the price. No, I have never "fought" a speeding ticket, although I have gotten a few. Call me a sheep, but I did break the law....
But then, I consider imprisonment for this 'crime' to be similarly absurd.
That's where we'll have to agree to disagree. I believe he got exactly what he deserved...