Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft to Disable Online Windows Activation
CasterPod writes "As of February 28, Windows users who purchased their PC will no longer be able to reinstall without calling Microsoft and answering a series of questions. The move is part of an anti-piracy effort to close 'a loophole that enabled unscrupulous resellers to use Windows XP product keys that were stolen from large OEMs.' Specifically, Certificate of Authenticity (COA) labels on PCs are often unused because OEMs preinstall Windows and bypass product activation. The product keys can therefore be stolen and reused. First WGA, and now this."
Now you will be forcing more people to move over to Linux and Mac computers!!!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!
ttyl
Farrell
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
Right when I am peeved that I had to re-install, I have to get back on the phone with M$. Enough is enough - has their 'activation' programs really impacted priacy at all? Has it done anything beyond bother paying users?
*This* is the reason we don't want monopolies abusing their power/position - they can impose whatever onerous conditions they like, and you just have to play along.
Whaddya gonna do - install *another* OS???
OK, oscar
Just means you will have to use a corp key which does not require activation. I know as a support tech I would never sit through a freaking queue every time I had to reactivate windows.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
Microsoft was dumb enough to put the product activation code on the outside of the damn PC. Anyone can walk into a store, take a pic of the code on a new PC (since they are bulk activated) and get free Windows.
This can only be good for free software however. Part of the Windows dominance comes from the fact that it is free for those who want it.
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I'm just waiting for the customer to ring up and say they don't have the original media. The last 3 PC's i know people have bought just come with a copy of Windows on a partition. If you run Fdisk then they are screwed
rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
right now, it was easier to spread corporate (or educational) keys. Many of these don't require activation at all. Once MS disables this, crackers will resort to patching the activation code. .. It's just a matter of time, like the XBox was cracked eventually.
On the other hand : this will just make the difference between Windows and OSX/linux even more apparent. Every user-restricting move of microsoft is, in the long run, a shot in its own foot
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
Sigs. We don't need no steenking sigs.
I am just going though some training and one of the hot points is understanding your customer. Making something more difficult for customers (home users and companies that do tech work) is not one of the moves known to improve market share and is in most industries considered a bad move.
Evolution or ID?
Because the last few times I've reinstalled Windows, it's been around 12am.
Microsoft depends on the ubiquity of Windows (and Office, Outlook, et al). When everybody is using Microsoft products, everybody needs Microsoft. Their proprietary formats are a de facto standard (except Massachusetts), so if you want to do business with people who use Windows (et al), you have little choice but to also use windows.
As their piracy initiative starts to pick up steam, this will only enhance the "value" of free (or at least lesser cost) alternatives. I predict a large swell of Linux usage-- on the desktop, in these emerging markets, or other areas where the hight cost of Windows (et al) simply locks people out. With that will come a groudswell of support for open formats.
Consider what you need if you are going to do business with the government of Hamburg. You will need to provide and exchange documents and other material in a format they can read (it won't simply be Word and PowerPoint). Now the same thing will happen in these emerging markets, creating more of an interest in these alternative formats, and thus alternative applications (e.g. OpenOffice).
More choices are good for everybody. Use the application of your choice, on the platform of your choice, and produce documents and other material in a format anyone else can read. Right now, I have any number of such choices to produce graphics for a web page (jpg, png, even gif). The formats for Flash and Acrobat have been opened up, and happily they are becoming more standard. But the U.S. Government still requires all RFP submissions in Word.
More choices, however, is bad for Microsoft. They don't want open formats and lots of choices, they want (and need) everone using and exchanging MS Word documents. They want (and need) everybody using Outlook and Internet Explorer, and of course, they want (and ultimately need) everybody using Windows.
to do whatever they like with their product. Personally, I think it's counterproductive - it's likely to piss off paying customers, although it might help them nab some shady dealers as well.
If you find it too irritating to deal with MS, you check out the alternatives. Isn't competition a wonderful thing?
no taxation without representation!
Since very few people buy windows in a shrink rap, most windows are shipped by OEMs. Having to ring up MS cust. rep is going to be pain in the hole. We all know that we (power users) end up reinstalling windows about once a year for what ever reason. What I would like to ask is, "will this make us dump windows as it becomes more of a pain in the ass?"
Thanks guys, thanks a lot
As if installing windows isn't enough of a headache. I had to reinstall windows in Japan, and let me tell ya, my Japanese isn't what it should be.
On a side note, I envy the Mac people here in that they can seamlessly switch between English and Japanese versions of their OS just by setting a preference.
In windows land, it's purchase both or suffer. Now more activation heedaches.
Thanks guys, thanks a lot.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. - Victor Hugo
Once they start getting the phonebills for supporting this method of activation, they will turn back to the old method. Not to mention the complaints.
Calling in every time I changed a bit of hardware is the only chance I get to talk to a woman...
oh.. ONLINE activation only... *WHEW*
Note: This sig contains nine S's, nine I's and five O's which... means absolutely nothing.
We will still be able to use as many instances of pirated windows using corporate versions without activation as we do now.
occured at the same time when i converted my Parent's and sister's computer to gentoo. They love it :). There is no need for me to look back as noone plays games on computers from us.
Time to break out of the vendor lock-in i suppose.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
What about coporations. Will they have to do this each time they Ghost/Reload a new machine?
rus
Cheap UK and US VPS
It looks like they are just forcing the OEMs to use the key printed on the box to do the auto intall.
Which doesn't seem *so* bad.
I'd do something interesting, but my server can't handle a slashdotting.
Seems to me MS could have solved this problem by requiring the large OEM's to stop allowing their keys to be "unused" like this. And you know what, there was a time that MS could have done this, despite the added effort/headache it would have undoutbedly been for the OEM's.
Sign O' The Times?
Step 1: Company implements some sort of copy protection.
Step 2: Legitimate users are hampered by the copy protection while illegitimate users breeze by it through various means.
Step 3: Company either ultimately removes copy protection with a black mark on its reputation or people just stop buying its products.
I know of no historical case that deviates from this for a major software release. Of course, you have various vertical applications that use dongles and other such things, but anything that is mass-distributed (like Lotus Notes or Turbo Tax) that has used copy protection either removed said copy protection or stopped selling their product.
I'm a big tall mofo.
What would happen if I wanted to reinstall late at night then? Are the telephone lines open 24 hours or would I have to reinstall between 9-5?
1. Are you sure you want to reinstall Windows? 2. Really? 3. Really? 4. Seriously, really?
It seems more and more people are being driven to use cracked versions of software simply because of the DRM inconvenience.
Ph-nglui mglw'nafh Gates M'dna wgah'nagl fhtagn.
This doesn't stop piracy in anyway. Product activation only disadvantages the honest customers and thats it. The ones who use pirated windows will still use pirated windows regardless.
I've serviced many PCs, and let me tell you, servicing the boxes that come with a bona fide windows installation are a much larger pain in the ass then the ones with pirated copies.
With the pirated ones i just reinstall windows and thats it. Reinstalling on an original box requires me to spend 15 minutes after the fact talking to a a machine in Singapore because the local Toll Free number for Microsoft was disconnected ages ago.
sheesh...
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
Without needing to answer a barrage of questions as to the legality of software that I have paid for ... yet again the honest person is disadvantaged so that a company can make more profit. In this case, it must be a fairly limited in scope 'theft' of COA forms.
Luckily most people don't reinstall ever and they'll never know the hassle.
Considering that Microsoft declined to give me a license key with my action pack subscription XPSP2 CD, I rang up and bitched a bit and got the computer activated anyway.
I had NO IDEA, but I guess Microsoft is giving a head's up to all of our students to hurry up and lift our keys and do their installs before the end of the month.
Nice way to alert people how to pirate your stuff, Microsoft, while further irritating legitimate purchasers.
Speaking for myself, not my employer
"The more you tighten your grip, Darth Gates, the more systems will slip through your fingers."
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
A small step for Windows anti-piracy,
One giant leap for the advocation of OSS.
I guess there's no question now as to what I'm going
to install on that new HD of mine. (As if there was doubt before this, I guess.)
And they said zombies weren't real!
I'm really surprised that they are wasting the resources to do this. Most pirated windows xp copies have no activiation anyway. they have no key, and don't ask for one. I would say if they want to get to the source of the problem, they should re-evalutate their MSDN subscription copies and have them need to phone in a re-install. In the end though, I think everyone knows what this really is, a big waste of time. *handclap for microsoft*
Ubuntu, the way linux should be.
Try Ubuntu FREE! --
I wonder how much additional cost Microsoft will have to pay for the thousands of users who will have to call in every 1.5 months when they have to reinstall due to blue screen of death.???
im not normally one of the tinfoil hat crowd, but this article got me thinking:
what if microsoft is taking this chance to gouge customers, while there's competition (point to linux), then once its finished gouging the customers and this product activation is commonplace, they'l sue linux vendors and users (or get another sco to do it) for patent infringement, wipe out the competition, then theyve gouged their customers and other companies customers too.
It would explain the abnormal amount of patents theyve applied for recently, and it would also explain why they're willing to gouge their customers so bad, even though they're scared of linux (companies dont spend so much energy spreading FUD about competitors if theyre not scared of them).
Due to a bad Adaptec PCI card (SATA interface to my hard drives) which was corrupting the hard drives, I've had to reinstall XP Pro on my primary worksation a lot lately. I took 3 re-installs to track down the problem. Each time, when I tried online activation, it would say the number of installs for the license key had been exceeded and I needed to call. So I call in, give them a very long string of numbers, they ask "why you are installing, how many computers has it been installed on, etc." Needless to say, this is pi**ing me off! I'll do everything possible to avoid Microsoft in the future! I've already purchased an Apple Powerbook.
Reading the RSS headline I thought for a moment that Microsoft had come to its senses and removed the pointless product activation.
No such luck it seems. Just more intrusive hassle to install a substandard OS.
Ho hum
It is things like this and the delayed operating system that makes one wonder if microsoft wants to get out of the Home User Operating system and just concentrate on their business customers.
Just think all they would really need to do is roll out a good, non-bloated version of Office for Macs and Linux that is compatible with their office version of Office and they can stop having to worry about whiny home user.
I make my face look like this and concerned words come out.
Give it away, and charge for the services. God knows, using their software requires more support than GNU software!
Lets see, on one hand, I can go with Windows, answer numerous annoying questions before you can even really start using your OS, worry about Spyware, Exploits, Viruses, Trojans, Bill Gates running down the street hurling a bag of gophers at you for using a pirated copy, or use Linux/BSD whereas you do not have to sell your soul, its free, its opensource, there are many free third party applications, rarley any viruses/trojans, no spyware, more security vulnerabilites fixed, more flexibilty, among other things.... Hmm, decisions.
So, if you have to phone them 20 times per year because your firm is too small to afford corp, who pays for the phone call to MS from Germany or England or Brazil?
The consume shall eventually as either the software price rises because of toll free numbers or you pay the long distance call and you get charged by your telco.
If toll free i bet a bunch of people will set their PCI Winmodem up to repeatidly dial..
Why UNIX?
Microsoft needs more money?
Someone's got a very big plan.
I'm going to rebuild my gaming machine and had planned to buy a copy of the OEM version of WinXP Pro from newegg.com or somesuch (they'll sell it to you as long as you buy hardware with it). I guess this new policy means I'd also have to call M$ when I actually get around to setting this machine up.
Calling up Microsoft is still a lot quicker and much more painless than installing Linux.
I don't have a phone, you insensitive clods.
Thank-you RMS!
Thank-you Linus!
Thank-you devs!
The content (and authors) of this report have been thoroughly discredited throughout the blogosphere. ED BOTT (http://www.edbott.com/weblog/) LAYS DOWN THE TRUTH: "IF YOU BUY A NEW COMPUTER FROM ONE OF THESE 'MAJOR VENDORS,' YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACTIVATE IT. THE SYSTEM MANUFACTURER ACTIVATES YOUR COPY OF WINDOWS WHEN THE COMPUTER IS BUILT. You can reinstall the operating system on that computer using the original Windows XP CD as many times as you want, with no activation required." If you replace your motherboard or try to install to a different system than the one that the OEM version came with, then you have to call to activate. Please stop the FUD folks.
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
If my new Dell Laptop is anything to go by, new PCs come with the OS already installed and without the need for activation as it has already been done. If I need to reinstall, I use the CDs that came with. These reimage the hard disk with the already-activated copy of windows again.
New PC from NewEgg... $1000
OEM License Windows XP Professional... $189
Having to call India in the middle of the night to get special permission to use your hard earned money... Priceless!!!
If there ever was a poster child for switching to Linux, this would be it.
D.O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.M.
http://www.eclipse.org/
TCAP-Abort
That's it. I've had enough.
I'm out.
SuSE here i come.
There are 01 types of people in this world. Those that understand binary, and me.
is don't activate until you have to.
don't waste an activation on an install that won't be around more than the grace period.
Why not just ghost the activated version?
This post written under Gentoo-linux with an SCO IP license.
Most of the Windows "success" come from piracy.
Now it'll be much more dificult.
Do you know what will happen? People will start to migrate to Linux!
I'm a developer and had made this transition with huge success. For me, Windows belongs to the past now. Once you try and get adapted to Linux is quite dificult to come back.
I don't need an anti-virus or anti-trojan installed on my system. I can choose wich Window Manager (I know that I can in Windows too, but it's not an ease procedure) I want. I can set my kernel to work as I want.
So, for the first time I'm tasting what Microsoft had denied me for so many years: FREEDOM!
They won't disable key activation, just for keys that are assigned to the top 20 OEM clients of Microsoft.
They are however planning to get rid of online activation alltogether.
Hmm, I hope India has enough people to man those call centers.
"Unscrupulous resellers" abuse Microsoft's T&C, so Microsoft punishes the resellers' victims (and everyone else who chooses a Microsoft OS) for the infraction.
Suing said resellers down to their socks for breach of contract or copyright infringement or whatever just never occurred to the deep thinkers at MS?
MS is one of the few software houses who could turn any rambunctious reseller into a smoking crater anytime they choose. Or any thousand resellers. But, nooooooooooooo! Bad enough that end-users have to put up with activation at all; now we have to play telephone tag with one of the world's busiest companies.
So this won't apply to stolen PCs?
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
As of February 28, Windows users who purchased their PC will no longer be able to reinstall without calling Microsoft and answering a series of questions. No-one expects the Microsoft Inquisition!
... and then they built the supercollider.
That's really nice, like 50 % of their customers of something like that uses a stole key... they need an alternative and turns to Linux, BSD and OSX, why would they do that it's like giving lost of customers away for free :D
Great job!
neo2k
I'm going to linux now. I've been toying with the idea for ages, and I'm an experienced linux admin, I just liked windows better as a desktop OS till now ("stick with what you know").
But distros like RedHat and co provide a desktop experience equal or greater than that of windows. I don't play games, and I already use open source apps for nearly everything else (firefox, thunderbird, openoffice.org, etc etc).
The hassle of reinstalling windows now exceeds that of getting used to a new operating system, so I'm moving. I don't grudge Microsoft the money for XP, but I refuse to be required to get permission to install my ORIGINAL copy of Windows XP on my own computer.
Sorry Microsoft, you just lost yourself another customer.
Not only on the PC -- The shrink-wrapped boxes of windows on Walmart shelves have the code on the outside of the box.
Come on - wake up to the reality.
Some readers here live in a dream world; it goes a bit like this. Microsoft make crappy products; Microsoft (unsurprisingly) protect their crappy products; people ultimately realise this; switch to Linux.
Here's the reality. Microsoft make pretty average products that a heck of a lot of people use. Microsoft get most of their revenues from office and windows and want to protect this cash cow. Microsoft have product activation on, something that bothers a relatively minute fraction of it's user base, and tackle piracy head on. People still view Linux as a server OS, hard to use, and not friendly to people who have less than 5 minutes to read a help file. People stay on Windows. Slash dot community still angry.
This change just doesn't affect them - and importantly - until it does, please don't expect any mass migration to other operating systems. Microsoft rightly identified an exploit that pirates are using to rip them off- why shouldn't they patch it up? It really bothers me that so many people play this out as a big bad beast cracking knuckles again - it just isn't. Since when did support piracy become so acceptable to so many people?
Just wait until Apple decides to change a4p rules and these same customers try and activate a "new machine."
The ignorance is astounding. I actually thought that they were doing this on purpose for the sake of making it easy to steal, thus maintaining their monopoly.
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This will all become moot as soon as Longhorn comes out. According to the press releases - its gonna be the greatest OS ever! No need to reinstall! Ever! Anyway, I pity those unfortunate souls who are going to have to take all the activation calls, there cant be many more undignified jobs than that.
Besides, if Linux got mainstream, these same people - if allowed to - would just buy one copy of some major Linux distribution and resell it over and over with ink-jet printed disc labels. Who's benefit is that for? Should Mandrake and Suse be put out of business because they try to sell software? I'm sure everyone would agree that RedHat should be put out of business - they actually DO make money, right?
Did I miss something, M$ now only get paid once for each system? As I seen it BigCorp buys this global M$ license that cost $X/Intel system they own. They also buy all the systems from Dell/Hp?ibm/whoever with M$ Windows preinstalled and paid for so M$ now got paid twice for one license. Now when "pirates" steal the code from the sticker and use the license that came with the system M$ only get paid once - the corp license, while the HW license is used on some other system. I know the EULA disallow you yto transfer the license but $ wise...
I think this comes down to having a ridiculously complicated pricing structure - different prices for bulk buy corporates, students and individuals - and different prices for the same product in different regions - means there's plenty of opportunities to play the system off against itself in order to get the best deal. If you simply said "This is the price for this product " - ideally the lowest price you have, then you've plugged this loop hole. And anyway what are MS proposing to do. if I've legitimately bought a machine with a copy of Windows and the copy of Windows turns out not to be ligit how am I supposed to know about it?
only people that really need to worrie are people like my self.i have a copy of windows from a few years back that i downloaded from a friend. ive never paid for a copy of windows since then. i installed the copy onto at least 10 differnt machines. now i just dont want it to say its a illegal copy and stop its self from being useable. microsoft have every right to do this really its there software. the only people that there goner put off is the people that use illegal versions of windows. but microsoft really know how to do them selfs in. the security updates was the first straw people who have illegal versions will most like get there computers compramised by the next major worms / exploits that come out and then they will be used to ddos www.microsoft.com :) . i think the next big move that windows pushes on people will be the last straw to make them move to linux or even to mac. thank god for that.
I've reinstalled my dell 5 or 6 times now for different HD's, and stuff I've f'ed up and stuff that MS has f'ed up.
The OEM version doesn't phone home.
"The more you tighten your grip, the more [star] systems slip through your fingers"
By the way, Mac OS X doesn't require any product activation at al, just thought I'd share that. I know Apple would rather you paid for it, but seeing as you need to buy a Mac from them in the first place (unless you just happen to like emulating it really slow on another machine) I think that they're a little less likely to threaten to take their ball home if you don't play fair.
From the linked article: "If a customer attempts to activate Windows XP with an OEM key from a COA, they will be directed to call customer support specialists to obtain an override code - provided they can prove that their copy is legitimate by answering a series of questions."
Right now all those people who are night janitors for McDonald's are happily saying to themselves, "There's someone who has a much worse job than mine."
Maybe that is a way to rate business models, by the quality of the jobs they create.
It's awesomely bad, when you think of it: Presuming that Microsoft customers are pirates and making them prove they aren't by cross-examining them. And, if someone doesn't answer the questions correctly, unfairly taking away his rights to use what he bought.
Marketing people are often the least intelligent people in a company. But this is a new low! R.I.P. Microsoft? The rot is growing faster than Michael Malone predicted. If some people are pirates, the solution is to abuse everyone?
Microsoft managers should be required to attend a class in social skills. At least farting in public and chewing with your mouth open doesn't hassle every customer.
Microsoft really ARE helping to support Linux!
. . . is part of the price you pay when you rent software. And when your ability to use software is controlled by a remote "activation" scheme, that's exactly what you're doing.
I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
At least the (non englisch) deaf person on this earth will have to switch to linux and other non activation OS.
The OEM versions don't activate *at all*, so I don't see how this helps.
Good advice!
But, easier said than done.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. - Victor Hugo
It used to be that Microsoft didn't care too much if a few people pirated windows. Now they are cracking down hard. What does this say about the future of windows? I smell fear in Microsoft. Could it be that Open Source is really starting to scare MS and they are at a loss on how to adapt.
Ok its time to post the Anti Windows Product Activation Patch link have fun and now you dont have to bother calling India .
.
t iw pa//>
Source code also availble
<URL:http://home.pages.at.nyud.net:8090/cw2k/An
Along with preventing piracy Microsoft will be helping with laziness and eliminating convenience! Now instead of registering via the Internet, which takes all of ~30 seconds, I now have to wait on hold for several minutes/hours/days and then I have the challenge of convincing them that I DO have a legit copy of windows... Ahh I can't wait!
How many times do you reinstall Windows?!
I can see maybe if you're in a strange company setting where they use a version that requires it, it may be a hassle, but I don't see most people reinstalling Windows more than once or twice a year. I guess more if you completely hose a system. That's what? 3-5 minutes? When I had to call them the one time my system had determined I changed hardware too much, it took about 1 minute for them to give me the hash I needed. I don't consider that bad at all.
johnny pirate has an XP cd from 2003
johnny pirate's volume license/activation free key is from 2003
johnny pirate doesn't use the most updated setup files
so this policy won't hinder johnny pirate
...and that's all there is to it.
http://home.pages.at/cw2k/Antiwpa
Example:
I purchased an OEM copy of XP Pro when I built my first P4 system 4 years ago, an Asus P4T-E board. Changed mainboards after that one failed, and now I have to call Microsoft every fucking time their OS decides that it won't be compatible with some other vendors softare or drivers, and a reinstall is necessary.
And what bothers me most about it, is they talk to me like I'm the fucking pirate? WTF? How hard is it to take down my name (at a minimum) or have a secret question to ask me.
"This one size fits all" attitude from Microsoft is going to burn them in the end.
I WILL NOT buy Longhorn, I will not SELL Longhorn to any one I build systems for, and I will definitely NOT recommend Longhorn.
When I bought my car, I didn't have to call fucking GM everytime to ask if I can change the oil, or exhaust or put different tires on it.What makes Microsoft so special?
If it weren't for the 2 or 3 DirectX games(NO WineX is not a viable solution yet) that I play, I wouldn't have any Microsoft crap on my system.
Sorry for stating the obvious, but I have been dealing with this particular issure for a couple of years now. And maybe I shouldn't feel so bad about it now that EVERYONE will have to do it.
That automated ladies voice is pretty nice...
Sounds like Microsoft wants to encourage a brisk resale market for Windows 2000 retail copies. :)
Moves like this only accelerate the vicious circle. Marvelous! Thank you, Redmond! Wow, when was the last time I said that?
And we have years and years of entertainment watching MSFT's fall from the peak market dominance. Like watching that one video of an extreme skier who lost it and rolled down the mountain...seemingly forever...unable to stop the fall and it was just one agonizing tumble after another. The only difference is you felt sorry for the skier, sort of. No pity for MSFT. Wo-ho!
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
This is going to a pain in the neck for a lot of people. First of all almost everyone I know has either an OEM version of Windows or when they want to upgrade a pirated version.
When I am asked to fix my friends PC's there is no way I am going to be phoning up MS to ask permission and there is very little chance they are going to be doing that either which leaves us with the following choices:
1) Actually try and find out what the problem is rather then just re-installing everything
2) Don't do anything and leave their computer broken
3) Install something else
4) Install a version of windows for them which doesn't need all this hassle.
Number 1 is usually a waste of time with Windows and so I am guessing that most people will opt for number 4 or if that's not available number 3.
I can't help but see this latest crackdown as an attempt to boost XBOX sales. That might sound weird, but MS doesn't get a cut of PC games that run on pirated PC platforms. It's possible that MS' reasoning is that in order to generate revenue from games, it needs those games to run on XBOX platforms. Soon, the mainstream gamer's choice will be Linux, PS2/3, or PC. Since the cost of the PC platform just doubled for the hobbyist, XBOX is the next big player. The reason that the price doubled is that, at least according to a story on the reg, the OEM license can't be transferred. So, instead of paying $89 for Windows, with the purchase of a Mobo, you're now paying $89 everytime you upgrade your proc (or $189 for the retail version). I personally have licensed versions of 98, 2000, and XP Pro. XP Pro is on a laptop - too slow for most games. 2000 is an OEM version, since invalid because I've upgraded my processor and mobo. 98 is - well, it's turned off. I haven't provided MS any revenue since early 2002. So, the next time EA launches a game, with the need to have the latest DirectX driver, I'll most likely be unable to play it on my 2000 box, or my laptop. Personally, I'll do without, but I could easily see someone justifying the purchase of the same game and an XBOX. I think that might be what MS is hoping for - to stop PC games from competing with the XBOX.
... and then they built the supercollider.
this is surely push a few more people aways from linux. Often I've installed the mosty handy and available operating system. This will make my xp cd's a little less handy. I'm sure that other people will find themselves in the same situation.
Mac mini $499
if it bothers you so much, stop using windows.
This is the exact type of thing that people were afraid of, when activation was first announced for Windows XP. We were assured that it would be automatic and anonymous. It just became a lot worse. Why should MS know when I format my PC? What gives!
-Patrick
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
This has to be the most unbelievably dumb thing I have seen Microsoft do in light of the mac mini selling for $499. One too many crash is going to send people flocking into the arms of Apple. And since mac covers the basics that most home users do (browse, email, word-processing, digital pics, etc.), this is going to be a no-brainer. I'll be buying one later this year in order to avoid this hassle. Also my PC will be a Linux box by the end of the year as well. The only reason I'm using XP now is out of sheer laziness. My Linux box had broken down and I didn't have the time to set up a new one. I bought a laptop and ran what came with it. I've already reinstalled 3 times and if I have to go through this, I will not even bother! This is great news! I'm already an Apple shareholder and I will DEFINITELY be buying more shares with this news. EVEN AT ABOVE $80!!!!
Hopefully, this will mean a lot more people buying one of these and using something like this, this, this, this or this!
Seriously. Why on Earth are people still putting up with these MS fuckers when Mac OSX and Apple hardware is so damn nice? I like a mix of Sun and Apple gear. The thought of actually deciding on MS just makes me shudder. And MS just keeps giving me more and more reason to hate them and the shit they peddle.
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
One I got at the .NET launch party at George Mason Univ. in Virginia and one that I got from my Comp. Sci. Prof at college (the department has a license that grants a free copy with unique key to anyone who wants one).
Now I'm going to have to crack one of my legit copies so I don't have to call the overlords at Microsoft when I reinstall.
Here's what Microsoft is doing:
"Look there's a software pirate crawling across my shoe!" *BLAM* "Ow my foot!!!@#"
Question everything
My father recent ran into a rather stupid issue with the phone based activation. You see it's not a person you're talking to, but one of those recorded voice recognition systems. He had a copy of Microsoft Works that he had to reinstall, and suddenly required activation. For some reason the internet based activation didn't work so he proceeded to do the phone based one.
Well lo and behold after he enters in his proper key for the product he legitimately purchased when he got his Dell PC, it promptly tells him the key's invalid, buhbye and HANGS UP ON HIM. There was no option to speak to a CSR at all, and he has no recourse (Dell can't do anything about it, and there's no phone numbers to call at Microsoft to talk to someone). The whole experience has pushed him that much further towards getting a Mac and waving a not-so-fond farewell to Windows XP.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
I was always uncomfortable with the direction WinXP was going in with regard to Microsoft-tied code, but this takes the biscuit.
Win2k for me then has to be the Microsoft OS of choice. It's stable, and it's (relatively) fluff free. I used to forgive Microsoft a lot when Win2k first came out.
That said, I'll be phasing out MS stuff when I can now - I just can't be bothered with it all. My computers are mine. The companies that made them can eff off.
People want to use the same operating system at work that they use at home. A company uses Windows because that's what the owner/ceo got with his home computer.
I got a COPY of XP Pro from a Technet kit. Thank God for friends. I'd like to try Linux or BeOS or some alternative, but nothing other than Windows 2k or greater supports my hardware. There are no 98 drivers for my onboard NIC. However, I can copy DVDs while playing the Doom 3 demo. Not many other Windows users can pull that off, and I like to brag, so I guess I'll have to stay with Windows, and never have to activate it. Booya -- sorta.
More OEMs need to offer linux. However, just as importantly there needs to be an return to discussion of software based on technical merits rather then just tossing up a five-star review based purely on the MS "look and feel". Currently the rating is more often than not an evaluation of the advertising revenue, not the tool. Also, federally funded public service programs like the ones in the UK and Finland need to stop shilling for Chairman Bill and point out other software and systems.
Disabling online MS-Windows Product Activation could be a real windfall for Linux service providers and distributors if they play their cards right.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Think about this:
Microsoft does NOTHING without considering profit.
For Microsoft to revert from an automated process back to using very expensive humans to approve Authentication strings can only mean they must be losing ginormous sums of revenue.
Microsoft would weigh aggravation to legit users against their revenue stream and decide it's worth the hit.
It can only be a huge problem for them to so something like this. Say what you will, but Microsoft is not often stupid.
Micrososft is a convicted criminal all over the planet they pay the fine or they are in trial arguing there case. If that dont work they buy the Government.
I am a REAL American from Canada , not a wanna-be from the country , self called "last remaining superpower" "of America
I'm phoneless you insensitive clod!
"But Microsoft plans to change all this. Starting February 28, Microsoft will indefinitely begin to disable Internet product activation on OEM keys used by the top 20 worldwide PC makers." This won't affect the buyer of a boxed copy, just OEM prebuilt machines.
I hate sigs.
they are just trying to push people towards another goal...perpetual licensing. For a small monthly fee of 29.99 you can license our OS & Software and never worry about installs/activation/etc, just a conection to the internet. In otherwords a service based approach. To access Office services, guess what pay the fee! No fee and you can't get to your data because the software is on their servers. Find a way to read the data at home? Guess what, they change their file formatting, so you either cant edit what you already have or you have to start over. Guess what, just pay the fee. Plus the fact that Joe user usually likes the low low price of $X/month as opposed to $399 up front - look at all the people that get into credit trouble because they figure they can pay the bill over time.
In the end if Windows is well enough protected, many users of pirated copies will move to linux.
"We don't want you to use our operating system." - Microsoft
The last two XP loaded machines I bought didn't come with orginal MS media, OEM media, boot diskettes or anything else. They gave me 6 blank CD's and a system recovery program and said "Good luck, burn these and don't lose them".
Seriously we are maybe 2 years away from being able to replicate 100% of the desktop functionality of WinXP using Linux. And with the exception of Visio there are no office desktop applications from MS that you HAVE to run in Wine in lieu of native Linux apps.
It will piss enough people off that something will be done.
The first time a US senator has to call and beg for another keycode and be denied.. This nonsence will end the next day.
I understand they want to curb piracy, but you dont do it by upseting your customer base. That only INCREASES the problem.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Seriously, it's maybe 5 minutes. I don't believe that anyone other than an OEM does enough Windows installs that this would be onerous. Secondly, if you are some sort of "installer" person, it is billable time. Thirdly, this means that, if all your "installs" have run out, you can explain the circumstances like, "well, given that the poor system security has forced me to reinstall this copy several times..." or "oh, yeah, I installed linux on that box, and since my XP CD isn't an OEM copy, shouldn't I be able to install it on another box?". Seriously, sometimes M$ *isn't* out to get you. This is one of those times.
Does any one else see Longhorn as the chance to move a lot of people away from Windows? Linux and Mac are both making inroads. With Longhorn's delay, and its DRM and required activation, it might be a time for the general public to rethink their relationship with Microsoft. This could be the big chance to move in a different direction.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Could it really be true that in a single 30 day period, Apple launches new, cheaper, easier to use personal computers, building on the Apple name spike from iPods and Microsoft takes steps that make life in Wintel land even more onerous?
Truly, someone is asleep at the helm over there in Redmond.
The fun part is this... they could introduce a whole new activation procedure in Longhorn. Change things to improve piracy protection. Offer it as a new OS, no upgrades, just buy it if you want it and start from scratch on licensing. And since it's a new verison people would not care so much. Instead they choose to put in aggrevating procedures now, when Anti-MS sentiment is still high and they have no marketing hype to carry them.
But then I guess it's only fair to let Microsoft protect themselves from piracy. I mean after all, they hardly make any money as it is...
Remember what princess Leah said...
The more you tighten your grip, the more systems will slip through your fingers.
Hey, at least be greatful that Microsoft is not yet charging a "per incident" support fee when you call to activate your system.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Yeah. 5 mins of waiting on hook, then 15 mins of trying to converse with american representative. All for overseas international call rates. And add that to the bill, in eastern europe. I don't think my customer would be happy to be billed extra 50% because of registration process.
Much more likely I'll bring a keygen/crack from astalavista.box.sk and reinstall windows with a fake key, even if I got original OEM copy.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
This will make even people that have a valid licence to preffer the illegal versions :-))
:p
Kidding.
No offense, but this already happens to a lot of software that doesn't have an international selling, like the one that is stuffed in your mouth by governament and it's coded by 'his grandson'
So windows will end writing a bad sector on my hard drive??
gtkaml.org
Will still continue to work.
They cant expect large corporations to have to fight with changing all their machines just because their code got leaked.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Microsoft has regional offices all over the globe. On the activation screen, you pick which country you're in, out of a list of around 100, and they provide a local, or at least in-country, phone number (oftentimes a toll-free number.)
Nice try, but, your complaints aren't valid.
Now that Microsoft have made it very clear to the masses that they can't re-use OEM versions of XP, I wonder if many people will start demanding OEMs to supply full versions?
At that point in time, people will realise how much Microsoft is charging for a full version of their crappy OS and probably go to Linux or Apple instead.
I can't wait.
Heh, product activation. WHat a joke, and its on us consumers.
;)
Good thing I use a student (Professional) version of WIn2k with no activation, serials, or other nuisances required. Just slot the disc and after X hours, its ready to roll. And I bought 3 of these discs.. 5$ each from the school bookstore.
The scheme they had on these discs reminded me of another scheme used on another set of OS discs..
Can you name another set of programs and OS that is relatively cheap (pay for media), no call home behavior, no serials, and in general things mostly work..
Oh, thats right. Linux
if each activation takes 25 minutes, citing one poster's experience.
If they don't employ enough Indians the bottleneck will drive putative Windows users mad.
Come on over to Linux, folks, where you are treated like human beings, not corporate cash fodder.
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
I actually thought that they were doing this on purpose for the sake of making it easy to steal, thus maintaining their monopoly.
Just because they are now requiring phone activation does not mean that you were wrong.
Its the drug dealer free sample business model. All the "free" ones that got hooked will have to pay or switch (withdraw).
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
I just hope that the call centers know about every microsoft sponsored licensing program. I don't want the call center to give me a hard time just because microsoft had some special deal with my school and it sounds funny when I tell them that I just got windows for free.
This is incredibly hideous. I mean, hey man, like, even though you spent a lot of money developing your product, and man, like made all a lot of your employees rich for working very hard, like, hey man, your just the man. So like why don't you just give us all your money and software. Capitalism is dead man! long live peace!
Anyone else going to Woodstock 1 next month?
I am "some sort of 'installer' person", in my capacity as home-user tech-support. Many repairs involve a re-install. Yes, it is billable time, but it will put our re-install price up. Customers will not be too pleased about this, and may go to less reputable repair shops who use key-gens and dodgy keys, as they are cheaper.
The effect in this area is to push more people towards illegitimate copies of Windows, and less business for us honest repair shops.
Thanks, Microsoft!
b3 4phr41d 0f my 4bov3-4v3r4g3 c0mpu73r kn0wI3dg3!
MadDwarf
Comment removed based on user account deletion
...that I discovered accidentally. You can install and activate OEM versions of Windows using the the same activation code multiple times so long as the hardware is identical. I accidentally installed the same OEM pack on two machines. Both activated with zero problems within a week of each other. Of course this wouldn't have created too big of an issue since each machine did have it's own key stuck to the side of the machine.
The real lesson here is, the moment you get your box, repartition it and ghost the system partition!
I can't say how much time it's saved me, and you'll never have to call their tech support
Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
Stop drinking at these hours, man!!
This has BIG impact on MOST "real" pirates as you call them!
Most of them, are just related to tech saavy people, either friends of family or even customers of an extra-pirate computer guy. So, when having a pirated copy of Windows becomes hard for the average Joe or Jane, they will probably buy a copy. Plain and simple.
I guess I could be wrong though - Dell's not a typical OEM is it?
fencepost
just a little off
RTFA
The change only relates to *preinstalled*, *pre-activated* copies of *major OEM builders*. Dells and such.
Hint: when you (re)install a Dell with the CD that came, you do not need to activate.
Now if you use the Product Key on the sticker of the Dell to install 'normal' Windows Home CD to another computer, it obiviously asks you to activate.
Difference is that the 'special' Dell OS CD is made for that Dell model, and preapproved as activated. Nobody should ever NEED to activate these copies when they are ran on the system they were sold with. And, lookie, OEM copies are supposed to be nontransferrable.
The idea is to stop the (common) cases of moving stickers from preinstalled Dells to other computers, and preloading OS using the key of the Dell. The original Dell user wont be needing the key - the recovery CD works fine without it - so people are reselling the stickers.
Now if you install a normal XP with a Dell key, you need to talk to MS and 'answer correctly' how you got the key.
He's right you know ;)
shitty crap warez to boot. No one in their right mind should pay to install Windows. In fact MS should be paying us to install it.
Piracy hurting you M$ ? Good. Hope that and your virus menagerie ends up wiping you and your joke OS off the planet.
Should I call when I install Linux on my old Windows machines? I think that would be a great campaign...
When you are ready to make the switch, please call Microsoft's license line and tell them you want to reinstall your OS. When they ask you for your key, ask them if they are sure they want you to read it out loud.
When they say yes, proceed with reading them the key generated by sshd during your first boot. When they say thats not the key, ask if they want you to generate a new key with ssh-keygen. When they say no, give us the key from your certificate, let them know that the Linux ISO you downloaded for free doesn't have a CD case and you just want to be sure its ok to install it over windows.
No sources mentioned, no "we beleive ...", just "here are some 'facts'".
/. about being able to mod stories).
Where do they get their info? Is there any source we can independantly check?
If this article was a post on this forum, it would be modded down and never read.
(Note to self: mail
b3 4phr41d 0f my 4bov3-4v3r4g3 c0mpu73r kn0wI3dg3!
MadDwarf
to activate Windows, I'm just going to remove it entirely from my machine and use a different operating system.
Reject Fear - Embrace Hope
MS: This Is Your 25th Install In the last 4 years. ME: So? MS: I'm gonna have to ask you some questions to confirm this activation. Me: Sure MS: On your 2nd Install, What was the IP you used to activate online? MS: ALso, I'm gonna need the mac address. Me: Ummm MS: ALso, on your 7th install, I'm gonna need the date and time of the install. me: Umm...??? MS: Also, You're gonna have to guess what country I'm in, and my native language. me: MS: IN what year did King Henry take the throne? me: FCKGW-RH.......
-- I Dont Deserve A Sig I Have Bad Karma
Now that the wife is on a mac, I've had to re-install zero times. my son can do all sorts of crazy stuff on the mac and it doesn't crash. This just gives me one more reason to never buy a PC. As long I have my windows laptop for programming and work, all my other systems can be Macs.
...don't stick the product key to the side of the computer where it can be easily stolen! Sheesh!
True
You can reinstall the operating system on that computer using the original Windows XP CD as many times as you want, with no activation required.
False. I have an HP/Compaq (is this vendor "major" enough for you?) notebook which came with XP pre-installed, no activation needed. But when I did the reinstall that XP seems to require every six months or so, with the original CD, it wouldn't run before I did the activation.
Anyway -- all I still use Windows for is to play "Age of Kings", and since I keep getting my ass kicked on the higher levels by the Spanish, I think I just might give that up, too.
Listen... people aren't going to switch to linux until it is user friendly, and recognizes 99% of hardware off the bat like windows. stop living the dream! i fought with my linux box for hours trying to get a linksys wireless card to work properly when it took all of 13 seconds to get it up and running in windows. When linux finally does have this wonderful user friendly OS attitude, it will be as big and clunky as windows...
... how exactly is that going to affect users that just pirate the corporate version (the version that is usually pirated) - that requires no activation in the first place?
Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca.
I used to be a MS Windows Activation Specialist (a.k.a. the person you hate to call all the time if you format often) for a year in a call center in my hometown of Saint John, Canada. People who wanted to re-activate their Windows would have to answer my questions first. So I have first-hand experience of how much people hate having to call. To be fair, we did get calls from people who, after we checked their Product ID, knew they were using a burnt copy. From this, you would surmise that this system is helping to fight against piracy, right? WRONG! As long as you answered the questions correctly (which mostly consists of why they need to reactivate), their's no problem. Thus you could call in, give a cheap excuse (The most used one being the "had to format", and even if this key's been used a hundred times, we had to activate again.) The one thing I hated to have to tell people, and it happened often, was that they could only install a retail copy of windows onto one computer and one laptop (This policy might have changed, not too sure). I found this to be a silly rule, which often infuriated the user on the other end of the line. And if you have an OEM version on one computer but own two, sorry, your out of luck, you need to buy a retail ver. of windows for that second computer. From my experience, it is my belief that the combination of both the Windows OS EULA and the activation process most likely caused more people to get pirated versions (I've had many people tell me they were going to this over the phone.)
- "I reject your reality and substitute it with my own", Adam Savage
I woke up this morning looking for a reason to spend time on the phone with microsoft. Otherwise, I'd never have anyone to call.
Apple needs a new campaign.. Instead of "Switch", it should be "Run like Hell!"
At this moment, there are two main reasons why people don't migrate to Linux: (1) XP has more games, (2) XP comes preinstalled. None of these reasons are affected by this XP activation issue. However, this new restriction in activation is certainly not something that will increase Microsoft's revenue.
If you consider that most people buy computers with the OS preinstalled and call an expert whenever a re-install is needed, you are right that this new inconvenience won't bother many people. But it's certainly an additional unneeded inconvenience, and it won't bother pirates at all. It bothers the legitimate user and doesn't affect the illegitimate ones.
If you have done any comparison on recent versions of Linux and XP, you'll have noticed that Linux is already easier and faster to install from scratch than XP. Why create more obstacles to the legitimate clients?
Really... Is there any reason to use XP over win2K? Besides the Fisher-Price interface?
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
Greedy Microsoft pissing off users again - who would have thought it.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
It seems like they've always had this. I used to reinstall XP every other month it seems. (Windows systems tend to bog down if you don't.) If the hardware wasn't changed, I didn't have to call M$. However, if any part of the hardware changed, I had to call M$, and the conversations went something like this:
M$ Techie: What'd you do!?!
Me: I installed a new processor.
M$: Why would you do that?
Me: Because I have no financial responsibility
M$: So are you sure you didn't just steal a copy?
Me: Yup.
M$: Okay, here's a new code.
Now, I'm a happy Mac user. Granted, I can't build/upgrade my own system anymore, but at least it's freaking stable.
For all the people who dismiss Richard Stallman's writings as nuts, I would like note that this story serves as a perfect example of how your freedoms are affected by non-Free software.
You paid your hard earned money for use of this software. You can not legally modify the software to your hearts content (try creating a server/dumb terminal windows distro for your office, for example). You can not look at the source code to find out how the OS _really_ works without signing a draconian NDA. (Indeed, Windows seems designed to be as confusing and difficult to modify as possible to keep people from mucking with it.) You must buy a copy for each computer you install it on, which sucks if you just want to set up a cheap box for your kids. You must comply with a sketchy EULA that when voided makes your copy as legal as one downloaded off P2P. And having read and understood the EULAs to all versions of Windows, I can almost state as fact that a good 75% of Windows users who think they are legal are actually not.
And now you have to call up Microsoft just to get your damn copy of Windows to work. You have paid your money for this software and are assumed to be a criminal for it until you get the smile and node of Steve Ballmer? Wake up and stop bending over! You should not need to knowingly break the law in order to use your software! You don't need to click "next" on draconian EULA's, trying to stay blissfully ignorant of what you have agreed to! The articles written by the Free Software Foundation that talk about freedoms lost are not the ramblings of some dusty academics, they are fighting what people do their best to stay ignorant of every time they sit in front of a computer!
Every Windows user is giving up their freedom to click on icons and be annoyed by clippy. This article is damn good proof that those who speak of software freedom might actually know what they're talking about.
Maybe if their software wasn't so stupidly priced (£179 for an OS is stupid) then there would be more legitimate users.
The fact that an OEM version costs much less and the fact that you will find it very hard to buy a PC without Windows (and thus reuse your existing expensive Windows CD/license) just shows why people pirate their software.
The tighter you grasp, the more systems will slip through your fingers!
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat
The more you tighten your grip, the more systems will slip through your fingers...
I have done 2 system upgrades recently in companies with 100-200 employees. The companies had both decided to donate all their old pc's to charity, take the tax writeoff and buy all new equipment. When I broke down the costs of software and support for them (I'm more or less neutral since I can play Windows and Linux without any issues), both opted for global Linux installs on desktops and servers. Openoffice and Evolution sealed the end-user usability deal both times and reduction in costs (no per-seat OS licensing, Exchange licensing, Virus software licensing, etc).
It works great for me since less money spent on useless licensing leaves more for services and support. Less downtime for them makes me look like the hero. Good for everyone.
Well I for one will use my licensed verion of Windows 2000 when I needs a Windows system. I will also use that version to play games. If I need Windows 98, I reboot and select Windows 98 and play those games that only run on Win98.
I won't personally use WinXP because I disagree with the EULA and frankly, since I'm Linux/Mac OSX at home, don't need to except for my old parallel port scanner that still works, the older games and flight simulators that I have.
People who value their time don't use Windows.
(ex MS Trooper, MSCE NT4)
if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
While cracking windows PA is probably low on the skill list of serious programmers, hacking their operators is a game anyone can have fun at..I once installed winxp on a machine, activated it, installed it on the next machine and when online activation failed, called up and told her it was a reinstall and she gave me a new key..woot...10 minutes later both machines had good keys...
See, that's the kind of "users are idiots _and_ thieves" mentality that's causing the problem in the first place. (And not just Windows. I wish all those idiot game publishers who now even want to install low level copy protection drivers on my machine would die a slow painful death. Cancer, for example.)
The fact is, users may not be versed in fine points like configuring a firewall or understanding security threats (then again, 90%+ of programmers have no clue about security either), but they _can_ Google, you know. You'd be surprised how finding a copy-protection crack for just about _anything_ takes mere minutes. Even little old grandmas know how to google nowadays, or get told how to real quick.
Also those users do _not_ live in a vaccuum, as the software companies and movie producers seem to assume. They seem to think the Earth is made of some 6 billion hermits, each living on a separate mountain top, and never talking to each other. If one of them found out how to download a crack or warez on P2P, surely noone else can learn that from him or her. Sad to say, that's not how it works.
If they're friends or family of a pirate, guess what? They'll get an already patched CD from that pirate. Or a CD and including the patch program separately. And then copy that CD further for others.
Or they'll get pointed at www.gamecopyworld.com, or whatever other crack site fits their particular problem, by someone who knows. E.g., someone like me.
Now I don't support piracy, and in fact I'm firmly against it, but I support idiotic copy protection schemes even less. Copy protection just doesn't work. Period. As was said, the _only_ ones affected are the honest paying customers. And I'll be damned if I'm gonna support that kind of thing.
When someone bought a product, it wasn't because they're too stupid to google for a crack, it was because they actually wanted to go buy it. Whoever wanted to pirate the stuff, actually went and pirated it.
And then going and dragging the paying users through indignities like having to call tech support to get their product activated (oops, some kiddie with a serial number generator already used yours, so more time on the phone is needed), or like having copy-protection-related trouble in the game they paid for (we'll just make your game crash because your CD drive is called "E:" instead of "D:", so surely you're a bloody pirate with CD emulator software), is just stupid and uncalled for.
Not that it will stop greedy corporate fucks from doing it anyway. There's a class of people for whom money is the only thing in life, and worth pursuing no matter what collateral damage they cause. Even when they don't even get that money.
The thought "but we could make 100 extra bucks from the only 2 guys in the world who don't already know how to download a crack" just overloads their brains. They just _have_ to get that 100$ at all cost, even if it means kicking every single honest user in the teeth. With steel toed boots.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
I tell you this move is hideous.
I just tried to install the Microsoft anti-spyware beta. (how could one resist with this dorky picture?? http://rino.bowdoin.edu/img/dork.jpg)
Well have you tried? You are taken to the biggest of big brother pages, the About Genuine Microsoft Software screeds!!! What a pant-load. You can't download the anti-spyware until you allow an active-x control to do something on your computer to verify that indeed, you are running Windows (well ok a valid purchased copy of windows).
It's sick and they just keep getting sicker.
This will, for sure, stop the pirates who are using XP Pro Corp. Because Pro Corp doesn't need to be activated. That's a good idea, Microsoft. Throw in an activation system, but disable it for one version of the OS.. That won't get out on the intarweb.
(Posting from a.. not quite legal copy of XP)
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
/// Zoid.
Five words: RESET DOT EE EXX EEE
fuck you, lameness filter
Get a nice overview on Microsoft anti-piracy efforts, put some popcorns on the stove and find a comfy couch. As pointed out in previous comments, those of us who would never dream of paying for something like Windows won't have to because of this initiative. Nobody will be stopped by this. I'm completely confident that I will be able to find an activation crack the minute I need to reinstall XP. That's the way it's been since prehistoric days, Microsoft didn't have a clue then, they don't have a clue now. The fact that I've bought a number of computers since XP was released, and ALL of those "included" Windows XP but only as a ghost image on a hidden partition of the harddrive, is reason enough for me to use pirated copies. I hope they produce more and similar "anti piracy" efforts. It's hilarious. And I love the feeling of being a criminal every time I use their software, it's like I'm getting back at them, one activation a time.
When I first read Microsoft to Disable Online Windows Activation, I thought 'Woohoo!"
Until I read the text, that is. =( Crap, I was planning on doing a reinstall in the next couple weeks since everything's really messed up - but I won't have time until well after the 28th. =(
Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
...and they are the second largest software corporation in the world.
Software producers, take note: you do not need copy protection to be profitable.
This REALLY pisses me off. Do they have any clue how many times the following thing happens? a) Users at XYZ Corp. get spyware or virus infection on their entire network. b) Only reasonably sure way of removing it all is to reinstall 20 client machines at once Now, we'll have C) Reading 500 digit f'ing OEM codes into a computerized phone system. Think about the poor souls having to do this... 20x5 minutes is a hell of a lot of time to waste fucking around with Microshaft's BS.
I dunno what they are thinking... how are they going to handle 100M calls to activate each time they release something new?
Does this mean it will be easier for me to prove that I have never run the copy of windows I was forced to buy with my new computer? I bet that's a pretty useful thing to be able to do when you're trying to get a refund for it.
Now our design department is saying, "Hey, InDesign is a lot cheaper, it has a useable interface, and it already works with my other tools..." And site licenses with Adobe are a piece of cake.
I personally think that mass piracy of Quark is what made it the industry standard in the first place. Sure, it had a quite a few features that you couldn't find in PakeMaker at the time, but its interface was (and still is) horrible. So in some ways Quark owes their success to piracy.
This is the last straw. I need a new machine, I have been trying to decide between a PC (cheap, company purchase plan) and a Mac (expensive) for some time.
I'm going Mac. Costs more, but I actually get some rights for my money.
I already have a copy of XP that is unusable because I tinkered with my hardware too many times and I don't feel like calling Microsoft.
Offtopic, but what the hell: has anyone had bad experiences with the Mac Mini?
"There is never, and has never been a charge associated with activation." Umm, yeah, except for when I have to call on my cell phone because I don't have a land line. Or perhaps I should go down to the nearest pay phone? Yeah, that would work great.
Is it just me, or doesn't windows require a format at least every six months, if you want it to keep functioning at peak?
With the more calls that will be made to activate windows now, will microsoft have to outsource even more? >_>
Your name, your sig, and your entire personality = twat
Shitram Brown, PhD
Professor of Mathematics
As an avid VMWare user, it looks like this is going to bite me. I blow away the OEM windows install, install Linux, then install the copy of Windows that came with the PC in a VMWare session.
So far this has been easy, but it sounds like in the future I'm going to have to call to ask permission to do this.
Even Windows-using developers installing VMWare for application testing are going to end up being bitten by this one.
I will be able to activate my retail copy of Windows XP Professional Edition over the Internet, instantly and hassle free. Take that OEM theives.
So much for installing XP where phones don't work or aren't readily available!
Anyone interested in organizing a large group of licensed users who ALL call M$ at the same time for re-activation?
This IS an issue that effects people.
With adware, viruses, and limited amount of repair options available for XP (When critical system files get damaged), computer repair shops will be very much affected by this. It will definitly raise the cost of reinstalling Windows, and the general "Total Cost of Ownership" when a reinstall needs to happen.
I just can't imagine that paying all these people to handle activations is worth the money. Especially when this punishes the customers, and does little to help track down the copiers.
$20 windows xp with $5.99 monthly fee.
It forces you to speak first, and after it fails five times then it asks you to type it in. It's not a choice up front.
click me
jaz
Death to Argument by Slogan!! (This post twice-encrypted with ROT-13. Replies not using same will be ignored)
as the submitter is making it out to be. Microsoft is only deactivating OEM keys that haven't been used yet. All you /. that burned a copy of your friend's XP disc should be OK.
534 comments and no-one mentions the obvious simple workaround.
Ok here it is:
As long as you aren't making any hardware alterations, you can back up the activation status files before you reformat the hard drive and then restore them after you reinstall the operating system.
To perform the backup, follow these steps:
1. Use Windows Explorer to open the C:\Windows\System32 folder.
2. Copy the Wpa.dbl and Wpa.bak files to a floppy disk or CD.
To perform the restore, follow these steps:
1. Decline the activation request at the end of the installation procedure, and restart Windows XP.
2. During bootup, press [F8] to access the Windows Advanced Options menu.
3. Choose the Safe Mode (SAFEBOOT_OPTION=Minimal) option.
4. Use Windows Explorer to open the C:\Windows\System32 folder.
5. If they exist, rename the new Wpa.dbl and Wpa.bak files to Wpadbl.new and Wpabak.new.
6. Copy the original Wpa.dbl and Wpa.bak files from the floppy disk or CD to the C:\Windows\System32 folder.
7. Restart the system.
So if the key is stolen, the rightful owner is S.O.L.? That doesn't sound very fair. It's hard enough to convince Microsoft that we purchased their products when doing a re-activation, and the company I work for is a Microsoft Partner!
Nice find. It's been too long since I've looked through SysInternals offerings.
seems informative me..
This will be cracked by some 10 year old Chinese kid anyways.
Gee, I thought that sometimes comments on Slashdot were snippy; then I got a gander at the comments on betanews. What a bunch of children.
"Microsoft, The more you tighten your grip [on piracy], the more [legitimate users] will slip through your fingers."
I think people are kind of missing the point. While it's easy to find reasons to poke fun at Microsoft, and I myself don't care for this bit of news, the fact remains that they're doing it for a reason. They lose millions of dollars in software sales due to piracy and theft like this every year. If you were in charge of such a huge company and were faced with making a decision on how to stop your profits from being stolen, what would YOU do?
I live over land. Much more stable.
Well, we all built our own boxes, and have retail copies and not OEM preinstalls
on our systems, don't we?
Neko
This shouldn't really piss people off (and no, I'm not an MS fanboy). You won't need to call them if you reinstall Windows. If your hardware hasn't changed, the activation will work. If you use your "OS Restore CD," It's already "pre-activated," so again, no phoning MS. If you scammed a key from a major vendor or you bought your computer from a sleazy computer store, then you will need to call MS. If you bought it from a sleazy store, I would make them phone MS for you. If you don't want to deal with ANY of this stuff, you can snag a copy of Corporate Ed, OR just use one of the many PA hacks out there. This will rewrte winlogon.exe and your new copy of XP won't need to be activated online. Screw the activation, the 30 day timer will not count down any more, AND you can still do updates.
You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
After all, with tools like RockXP around, won't it just be easier to trade/hijack legitimate activation files and eliminate the middle man in this scenario? At least with online activation Microsoft has a fair idea where the piracy problem is coming from-- they know which keys are the real problem, and also (typically) have a good idea of the IPs where the piracy is occurring. The telephone route will just push the pirates farther underground, and make them harder to find, IMHO.
If MSFT wantes to punish piracy, they have a perfect avenue right now-- add a kill routine to the activation process. Heck, the more certain the piracy, the more massive the kill. Since an OS pirate is probably running other pirated software, you're able to kill multiple birds with one stone. Just ask DirecTV or Dish Network-- their boxes detect piracy, and it's game over for the box. If it's their mistake they fix it, and they make very very few mistakes.
All it will take is someone to modify myDoom or equivalent to disable Windows and flood MS's phone banks before this idea gets canned.
I triggered one going *in* to a store at the mall right before Christmas.
The clerks at the adjacent counter laughed and asked, "You came from Fye's, didn't you".
I had to loke at my bag; I had no idea that the record store had a new name.
I didn't end up buying anything, and waved before I triggered it again going out.
hawk
The "pirates" have done this a long time ago. I haven't had to activate my copy yet :-) As usual, this will accomplish nothing, except possibly boost the stock price a little bit for a while.
When I read stuff like this, I always feel a little bit like Dogbert. Not where he's got the sceptre and exorcising demons, but where he's laughing maniacally as his world-dominiation plans are coming to fruition. Sometimes it makes me a little scared, but then the evil laugher wells up again and supresses my fear.
I fully support this action by Microsoft.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!
Excellent choice. I'm sure that guy, who is likely paid very little, was made quite cranky by your demonstration of his own impotence. I'm sure he was really thrilled with his job the rest of the day.
How about next time you try not being a complete dick and just show him the goddamn receipt? Showing your fellow human beings a little courtesy and respect would help make this world a somewhat tolerable place.
Although it's probably been said before, this is GREAT news.
One of the reasons windows is so dominant is due to rampant piracy. If MS is able to crack down on this we are probably going to see more people refuse to shell out $$$ for Windows.
"XP or 2K represented almost 75% of all Windows users. That means that the really legacy products - 95, 98, and NT4 represent less than 1 in 4."
More people have bought computers in the last 5 years because the entry level price dropped. They could no longer get the Legacy products pre-installed during this time.
I think M$ knows full well that a large majority of installed XP's out there have been circumvented by corp keys and the like. In fact, I think they are directly responsible for it. I remember someone on a newsgroup once saying that M$ itself is the one to release corp keys on file trading networks, IRC, etc. They want to lure in the young ultra geeks and nerds and what better way than by making them run through a maze of key generators and registry hacks. No, even though the activation policy has changed to only permit phoning in, it will only effect the legitamate users - not the tinkerers. I don't think this will change the attraction to linux in any way. Some Windoze users might even prefer the phoning in method as it is the least painful to understand.
Things like this make me wanting to start a company that charge people by the hour to help them fix their computer. Let's see. 30+ minutes (depending on the products) to install a Microsoft product. 30+ minutes to activate that product. 30+ to just update the product. We are talking at least 2 hours per product. Typical rate for that is around $90 per hour = $180 per Microsoft Product installation. Thanks Microsoft.
Try to find a deeper sense in this!
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You are not supposed to read this!
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This is the last fucking straw. I will be buying a new computer before the end of the year and it will NOT be a windows computer. I'm not going to bend over for microshaft every time I want to reinstall windows.
So goodbye Gates and hello Jobs.
Please note that this post is from someone who never thought they would leave windows, but I have just had it with microshaft.
The place I work for acts as system admins for about 100 different small companies in the area... Standardized images simply aren't going to do much good. We'd spend 90% of our time building images to reload (not to mention, that a lot of the customers take the opinion that they don't want to buy a 20-user copy of Ghost to be legal, but would rather pay $120 an hour for someone on site). I know if generates money, but I'd rather do something more productive than sit on the phone.
You are under absolutely no obligation whatsoever to show your receipt to the door drones at Best Buy, Fry's, or anywhere.
The only exception to that is Costco, because you're paying them for the membership, and it's part of the membership agreement.
This is Microsoft installation support. How may we help you?
A message box just popped up, saying I have to call you and answer a series of questions, before the reinstallation can be completed.
Yes ma'am, that is correct. Question number one: What is your age?
I'm 25 years old.
Are you single or married?
I'm single.
What are you wearing right now?
What th'? Why do you need to know that?
Okay, we'll come back to that one later. What is your bra size, and do you hook in front or in back?
That's TWO questions, and it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
I'm sorry, ma'am, we can't successfully complete your reinstallation unless we get accurate answers to all our questions....
Mark Edwards
--
Proof of Sanity Forged Upon Request
When I factor in my time pissed away dealing with Microsoft and WIndows itself... my Powerbook doesn't seem so expensive after all.
Dump the IRS - http://www.fairtax.org
now there is motivation for every ms hating tech person to write an entirely desctructive virus, completely hosing the infected machine.
can you say DDOS to the product activation group?
think about it
-----
posted from my 15" powerbook
Three Deep Comments ...was brought to you by another AC!
If you don't understand this, please read it again!
http://www.cheshirewebmill.co.uk/microsoft/
/sarcasm
How about we organize an "Official Windows reinstall weekend" then we can flood the phones at the same time to get our reinstall authorized by M$. Oh, wait, I forgot, some of you will need to disregard this post as you are in possession of an illegal copy of the evil OS! But for the rest of you, this would be a fun way to annoy the beast.
I don't know what you are talking about!
Sensless Deep Thinking?
Leveled Deep Thinking?
Bunch of wishful thinkers here. Preaching to the choir.
This isn't going to change a goddamn thing. People GOTS to have their Windows because it runs (games | Outlook | Word | whatever people are hard for these days).
Microsoft could make people eat shit and they would still demand Windows. The techies would piss and moan, but people aren't going to change to a 'hippy' OS because of this.
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
Who needs Rock XP when this is availible
/
http://home.pages.at.nyud.net:8090/cw2k/Antiwpa
1) Most pirate copies of windows are "Corporate" keys. They don't require activation.
2) My experience is that, regardless of how many times you have activated a key, as long as you don't say "Because I'm a dirty pirate" when the phone-drone asks why you need it reactivating again it's all good.
Basically this appears as if it's going to piss off a whole bunch of people for no good reason.
"Physics is to math as sex is to masturbation." -R. Feynman
Word. I've got WIN98SE in vmware as my 'windows machine.' The bloaty XP is something not needed by all persons. Not to mention 98 and 2K take less hard drive space. WIN98SE itself is under ~300MB installed.
I don't know what I was thinking, I guess for some reason I thought it was a free magazine. Perhaps it was a free magazine at one point and I was remembering that. Anyway, a day or two later when I realized what I had done, I went back to the same store and explained to the clerk what I had done and paid for it. We both laughed, I think he thought it was funny that I actually returned and paid. No harm, no foul.
When you sympathize with stupidity, you start thinking like an idiot.
Lower the retail price of Windows = Sell more copies
Windows XP Home retail $104.99 (Amazon.com)
Windows XP Pro retail $257.99 (Amazon.com)
Mac OS X 10.3 retail $114.99 (Amazon.com)
If they priced Pro at $49.95 - $74.95, they would sell far more copies than they do today, and they could save all the money they're spending on anti-piracy nonsense.
Better yet, start selling it to the public for a only a little more than the OEM's pay per copy.
How long is it before M$ decides to put out a Windows-cripping automatic "update" which requires a reinstall for _everyone_? It's a lot easier to force people to call in to make their reinstall work than to rely on "software audits", or the like.
Actually, I'm hoping they will do this soon, so that the Windows-only businesses will have to think about switching to Linux.
Being a Windows XP Support Professional (read: outsourced phone monkey) was shitty enough without having to deal with this kind of crap.
I am interested in *nix, especially because I'm going through an applied degree in networking. I like *nix, why? Because through my courses, I have learned all sorts of cool things that it can do that Windows simply cannot. I also work in a local computer repair shop part time to pay for school. My experience is this: people KNOW that *nix or Mac work better than Windows. However, they have been using Windows/MSOffice/Outlook for the last 5 to 10 years. It is DIFFICULT to change. Maybe not for me, I'm a 20 year old interested in computers to begin with. Certainly Slashdotters are at a technical level that it's not a big deal to learn how to use a new OS. But for people like my family, it is. My mother for example works as a doctor in an office with several other GPs. They are currently looking at installing a network, which is a first for them. They've had people placing bids and showing them what could be done. One of them run Linux, she chatted with me about that. I can paraphrase: 'They seemed like a really sharp bunch of guys. They showed us their software, it looked simple, and worked well when they showed us. However, I know that the time it would take me to use Linux would be too much to make sense economically.' My mother is an example of a skilled individual, 10 years of post-secondary education to become a GP. But the ineffiiencies of Windows do not yet have enough weight for her to invest the time to change to Linux even though she admits it will work better. I think this calling in to activate won't force a mass exodus from Windows. However, it will leave a dark memory or grudge when they have to make this annoying phone call. It also leaves a grudge when I have to tell a customer when I'm at work: "Sorry this virus has destroyed some system files, we'll need to back up your data and format/reinstall windows. All your programs will need to be reinstalled as well when you get it back." Given time, these grudges will pile up. More people will be motivated to subvert MS, thus nullifying a counter-piracy initiative such as this one. For those who don't want to pirate software as a result of personal conviction, this pile of grudges will finally motivate them to spend the time to learn a new OS.
The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
Specifically, Certificate of Authenticity (COA) labels on PCs are often unused because OEMs preinstall Windows and bypass product activation.
Manufactures like HP, Sony, Dell, etc. bypass the activiation because they use 1 key to activate windows, then use that image on all the other PCs that they ship out to the stores. So if you look at the key that's on a brand new PC, the key differs from what the COA label that's on the PC itself. They do it because its faster and more efficient. Consumers should not be punished because of this. Its not the consumers' fault that the manufacture did not activate the OEM key.
Well,
I was considering getting a new XP desktop,
but not being able to reinstall the system
without calling, waiting, and eventually connecting to an engrish speaking person just to get it to boot, well - that's a problem.
Mac Mini - matches my iPod and doesn't cause problems.
'Please hold for the next available agent. Your wait time is *6* hours and *40*,*2* minutes, please stay on the line. Your call is important to us at Microsoft.'
You do not have to activate a new machine from a major OEM, however if you reinstall from media (if you're lucky enough to get it with the machine), YOU MUST ACTIVATE. The reason is that the copy of XP on the machine checks some BIOS code and will not ever register, as it's already securely tied to the hardware. In that state, it is activated with a special OEM key (which is different from the sticker on the side of your box). Nobody but the OEM has access to that version of XP. If you have OEM media from the manufacturer, it's slightly different from the one that came preloaded. The OEM (or other) media that you reinstall from has the regular activation code, which prompts for a key to be entered from the sticker, and then must be activated in the usual way from MS. I'm not certain about reinstalling from a "rescue partition" that OEMs are so fond of these days.
The grandparent is mistaken about not needing to re-activate after reinstall...the fact that the key that comes prelaoded in the machine is different than the one on the sticker on the machine, and the preloaded version of XP is different from the media is the whole problem here. It's what makes you NEED to register after reinstall from media, and it's what created the whole drive to inconvenience customers with phone activation (which takes much more than 2 minutes like a lot of people are saying)...the problem is that the sticker contains a legitimate virgin key that anybody can steal and use to activate a different box.
My big question is what kind of documentation are they going to expect me to have when I call?
teeker
I think it's a fantastic idea that Microsoft has come up with this secure method of ensuring that their products are legal on customers computers. Weeding out all of those people who have not fully paid up licences is a great thing for Microsoft. 60, 70, maybe even 80% of the computers in the world may have pirated Microsoft software on them. It's time solve that problem. Further, it would be much better if Microsoft allowed users to install it's software one time only from disk. If it breaks for whatever reason, users are required to pay for another full licence. It would be better too, if Microsoft started charging more for real service. $2000 per phone call "just to say hello". $5000 for each question. $25000 if the question has to be forwarded to another person. The days of the Microsoft 'free lunch' are over. Users will never switch from their products and Microsoft knows it. Time to 'leverage the market'. It would also be better to install 'rundown timers' on the software, so that users know how much time each application has left 'on the meter'. For a paypal online charge, users can 're-activate' word for another 1/2 hour for example. For those wanting bulk rates, they can buy hours per month (packs of 1000, 2000 and 3000 hours per month could be made available). Increadibly great value from Microsoft products could be had for the low rate of $0.5 per application-hour (per user).
They'd never try to completely tear down pirated copies of XP. Think about it, if they FORCE users to buy the OS and completely stop pirating, then the kids (yes, usually it's the kids in the house who are the sysadmin) will not buy it, and move the computer to Linux or something else. The fact is, piracy is the reason MS has such a great userbase. Plus, what you use at home, business will be forced to use in the workplace. Stopping piracy would be the end of microsoft's OS monopoly.
To give a very interesting example, I "heard from a friend" that certain new dev platforms were released by some MS employees under direction of their manager on BT and kazaa to increase usage and promote it.
Does Windows XP suddenly need re-activation if I merely repartition the drive and change the bootloader? Because these operations are common when installing Linux for a dual-boot setup.
It would be a rotten way for MS to discourage the use of alternatives.
I've avoided XP so far, partly because of the verification process required after reinstall. But I kind of figured that I'd get the version after that (been skipping DOS versions a long time: v3, v5, Win95, Win2k for me). But this is nuts. I already have PC hardware, so I expect that my next OS upgrade will be to Linux, and my next hardware purchase a Mac. Wow. I've been pro-PC for ~16 years. Never saw this coming.
VFX is more influential than you think.
As much as generally hate dongles, I actually like the dongle system used to authorize OS X. It's called a Mac, and OS X won't run without it. Best DRM ever.
This too, will end.
It does away with casual piracy. MS has sold millions of copys of XP to idiots with multiple computers who used to buy just one upgrade copy, and now buy 3 or 4. These are people with more money than sense who upgrade because they want all their computers to look the same (yes, I've spoken to people who spent over $1000 dollars on software for a green start menu on all 4 computers). Add in the people passing around their copies of 9x to anyone who asks, and this is a tidy sum of dough for MS.
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and you get straight to an operator. I think you can do it earilier too, but I don't like talking to people so I just punch the numbers in.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
A police officer in Canada would never do that. If you have some member agreement that says you must show a receipt, and then you refuse to do so when you leave, it doesn't follow that the police will arrest you. They'll most likely tell the store to cancel your membership. The criminal code in Canada at least places a heavy emphasis on being reasonable.
The article paints the picture incorrectly. MS is not turning off inernet activation for all reinstalls, as the article suggests. It is not even turning off all reinstalls for OEM versions. It is flagging ranges of installation from large OEMS that were sold in the past from reinstalling with out a phone call. Things you buy in the future are not effected. Only reinstallations of Xp products, sold in the past, by large OEMS, with large license groups.
While she was quite helpful and only asked once (why so many installs)
Maybe because I keep getting viruses and format is the only way I can remove them all without paying for additional software!
Just tell them the truth, spyware and exploits hosed your system.
I guess you've never heard of people living down to your expectations? Treat them like an idiot and they'll be an idiot, if not just to spite you.
we love you for that, keep up your crapy work an bring yourself to death. This will make our live mutch easier.
people whine and bitch about MS, but the fact is, there's stuff you can do with Word, Excel, Access and Outlook that no other software package can touch. I'm loth to admidt it, since I'd like nothing more than to sell Linux boxen to people, but there it is. Word has versioning features writers won't give up, Chemists won't surrentder Excel, nitwit managers who need to bang out a quick app love Access and salesmen need Outlook. Sure, all these programs have major, mind-bogglingly annoying flaws/bugs. But if you need the features they offer, you just live with it.
Back in the days of ms-dos and win 3.1 you were right, those days are long gone. Now with the computer market shrinking and developing countries eyeing Microsoft suspiciously, Microsoft wants the sales more than a bit more market share.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Firewire drive + Knoppix CD + Freshly activated windows installation = trouble-free reinstall the next time windows activates it's self-destruct sequence.
[In India] "Hello I would like to activate Windows." "Hellou activate Windooows ALAH ALAH ALAH"
Because I have low karma, I need pills.
I moved to Linux about 1 year ago, precisely because of issues like this. I have no intention of running an operating system that requires me to telephone or contact Microsoft to use software that I have paid for. This is totally unacceptable, and as soon as product activiation was introduced, I quickly shifted all my development efforts to Linux.
Since then, I have experienced the usability issues that will frustrate many inexperienced users, and endured the learning curve of deciding which GUI toolkit libraries to use to port my software to Linux. Linux is an excellent platform for developers, and the supply of high quality free development tools has convinced me that Linux should also be the platform of choice for development of new Windows applications (with the happy side effect that such software should also run on UNIX boxes) Microsoft is shooting itself in the head with these type of 'anti-piracy' efforts. Piracy actually benefits Microsoft. Most young developers (at least when I was at university) were using pirated windows. Microsoft is pushing these next generation of developers away from its platform, and forcing people to adopt solutions that may not be as mature from the point of view of downward scaliability, but that are at least as good, if not better in many other areas, and are repidly catching up in usability.
Try making a decent OS that people actually like to use (don't just have to use) and piracy will go down a lot. Also, try not treating your customers like criminals. Microsofts antipiracy techniques just encourage people to work harder to circumvent them; build a better mouse trap, and someone will find a better mouse.
I think this is a push to annoy the piss out windows customers so M$ can say .. oh well if you buy hardware with Paladium in it (or whatever incarnation it will go under later) you won't have to bother calling us.
I had a Windows XP Professional original CD, and had lost the paper-back insert with CD-key. And I needed to format my windows. Of course, I could have gone to kazaa and tried to find a crack -- but that takes just as long as phoning.
So this is how the process went:
- I asked them I lost my insert, but had the original CD
- They said fine. But then they need to verify I had the original CD, so they made me describe how the CD looked in detail
- I told them it had holographic pictures, it was shiny, it has "unauthorized copies prohibited", I described all the little writing around the CD and the back, it says Microsoft here and there, what it says on the concentric rings, etc.
- They said OK. And proceeded to give me a brand-new CD key and scribbled it down
- Now they said, "we have to wait for you to install Windows XP upto the point where it asks you to input the key".
- I said OK, "but it will take a while"
- They said fine, "we can wait for a few minutes"
- So I proceeded to install Windows XP, and finally after 20 or so minutes, it asked me for the key. I put the key in, and it was accepted.
- I told them CD key was accepted, and we did our goodbyes and hanged up.
Two things that surprised me from this ordeal:
1) from what I heard, I didn't know you had to describe the CD so they knew you didn't have a burnt copy
2) They actually waited for me to install Windows XP and try out the key. I could have just lied and said, "yeah it worked", but If I recorded the key incorrectly, I would have been an idiot calling again saying, "it worked, but then it didn't". They would say, "WTF?"
Nazis? They don't even give a damn most of the time. ( Once an a while you do run across a real door 'Nazi' )
Door Nazi is just a 'light duty' position they give to people they can't fire because of the ADA. Half are faking to some degree and are probably burnt out beyond giving a rats ass how much stuff gets stolen. Heck, they're probably rooting for the thieves.
this isn't EXACTLY true....
they are deactivating Internet authorization of MAJOR OEM COA's...let me quote directly from the most recent Microsoft System Builder Newsletter...
"On February 28, Microsoft® will disable Internet activation for all Microsoft Windows® XP product keys located on the Certificates of Authenticity (COA) labels distributed by large, multinational OEMs." (Italics Mine.)
in other words...only the volume licence COA from such vendors as Dell, HP etc...granted this is about 80% (my estimate) of all system sales...but its not gonna affect EVERYONE....only those that buy stand alone COA's on E-Bay and from other vendors.
Ive called microsot to activae windos before and everything was automated. read your cd key to the machine it tells you an ativation code. took maybe 5 min.
I personally think that mass piracy of Quark is what made it the industry standard in the first place.
There's an argument to be made that tacit permitting of piracy is roughly equivalent to "dumping". (or selling a product below cost to gain marketshare). The difference is - since copying software is essentially FREE, it's technically not selling the product below cost. Now. Can anybody tell me why successful software companies are among the most profitable businesses known in the history of mankind? Or why the market has consolidated faster than any other industry in the history of business?
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Now, if only someone would DDOS their phone lines, no one can activate windows lol.
And who is one of the major suppliers of these "copy protection" schemes that put people off PC games? ... Sony!
keep it up microsoft - linux doesn't have to do a thing to compete - you will take yourself down. god how I miss all those keys I have to keep track of - I guess that is what enterprise software means - you need a staff of people to keep track of license keys. you can take you activation codes/keys and shove them up billy and steve's ass. don't need them never will - when will these corporations wake up and smell the coffee - the money you are paying for these stupid licenses could be used to save people's jobs.
Why not spend the money on a license of Xandros. I've heard it is one of the easiest distributions to use yet.
Xandros Desktop OS Version 3 Deluxe Edition
It probably won't effect you. It 'should not' effect you is the proper thing to say here.
If it does become a problem for you, the most likely cause would be that the small vendor who sold you the machine ripped off an OEM copy of XP and has resold it to you as a legit copy. Otherwise the only people who will be effected are those who have to reinstall from selected Dell EOM cd's and selected HP EOM cd's, (there are a few others), that were sold between certain time frames and under certain license agreements. It is not a big group.
Hmmmm... For a while, the market for OEM versions of XP on eBay has been quite active. I wonder if this will make anyone think twice?
Or maybe it is an attempt to shut down this market....
Supposedly, it was "legal" to sell these copies with a qualifying piece of hardware. But now, If I have to call up to activate, and I tell them I bought my copy on eBay, will they refuse?
Why the hell do they even try anymore... I think that they should just all commit mass suicides and the world could work in open source. I hate how they think that they actually make a difference. If they were to merely lower the price and take the first step in this inflation bullshit they could actually compete with all other Operating Systems in the future. At the rate they're going they will keep raising their prices more than the goddamn yearly income of a person. What's the next OS going to cost? $500... After that $1000? $5000? They are going to have to initialize action because software piracy is only going to rise with prices. More and more people are less and less sensitive about whether they are going to simply download it or save for a year and buy it... Also, with faster download speeds, it is going to be all that much easier.
Ya gotta LOVE these things MS is doing. They're getting scared and such knee-jerk actions are clear evidence of it. I wholeheartedly WELCOME new ways that make it even more painful to run Windows on PCs. Every new frustration means more users that will transition to Linux, FreeBSD or the Mac or something else. Hooray for MS paranoia! Windows, if you can believe it, is becoming even less "free" (as in freedom) all the while Linux becomes more "free."
Apparently, it will be a considerably larger amount of kicking and screaming before MS gets dragged into the Open future than it took to drag them into the Internet, and frankly, that's a good thing. When you should worry is when MS finally gets around to realizing that they will have to get seriously in on the Open bandwagon themselves or lose out completely. The longer we can forestall that eventuality, the better, IMHO...
It could very well be that Microsoft knows that its OS and Office based platforms are reaching their EOL. As they try and turn their corporate leviathan around to a new business model (online only services?) they are making one final stab at generating the revenue needed to make the changeover.
They don't mind seeing a large mass of folks move away from XP since in the years to come their revenue source will be from providing connected services that are OS independant.
Granted, we're talking 3-5 years down the line, but I doubt microsoft limits its business plans to just next year...
Last time I did an XP re-install (for my grandparents when they upgraded hardware), I had to call. The system wouldn't let me boot up to install the network driver until the activation was done... figure that one out.
- My favorite error message: xscreensaver, running on an old Sparc 5 w/ 8bit color: bsod: Couldn't allocate color Blue
blah blah blah ... if anyone needs me I'll be rebuilding my Linux kernel.
I've had WPA trigger on my installed-and-activated copy each time I moved the system partition to a different drive, especially if it was bigger.
Yes, I know, I ought to totally reinstall, but when I have a drive start to give me read errors, I don't feel like risking death of data by hunting down what directories it may be in.
And when I buy a bigger drive and want to use it as my Windows system drive, and install SuSE or something on the old drive, I should be able to do that, without telling Microsoft what I'm doing.
By using Applocale. Personally my computer is set to Japanese, but I use Applocale when I need to run Chinese programs.
i used to lived in stockport near manchester in the uk.
stockport libarays use those tags to stop people walking out with stuff but they don't deactivate them (you go through the barriers the books you check out do not)
however at least at one stage (i dunno if the issue has been fixed since) the books would set of the alarms in quite a few shops.
I really hope this translates to more Linux users. I hope the Linux community will grow large enough that hardware and software makers will no longer be able to ignore them. Unfortunately, I'm sure that most Windows users will just shrug and lay down for the program.
Activation is the sole reason my Windows partition runs Windows 2000 instead of Windows XP. I refuse to use any product that must be activated in this insane way.
I support the Center for Consumer Freedom
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."
"There are more important things than stopping terrorism. Upholding the Constitution is one of them." - Ars Forumer.
The MUIP sounds great! Thanks for the heads up. Oh, wait...
Here are a few facts from the Microsoft website:
MUI is not supported on consumer versions of Windows such as Windows 9x, Windows Me, and Windows XP Home Edition.
MUI is an add-on to the English version of Windows XP Professional and Windows 2000 family of operating systems, and will not install on localized versions of Windows XP/2000 or on Windows XP Home Edition.
I have Windows XP Home Edition (Japanese Version).
For fuck's sake, know what you're talking about before bitching about Windows.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. - Victor Hugo
Sorry guys.
I only have 10 days left to activate XP Pro (I had been waiting since there were hardware upgrades that needed to be done first) so maybe they got a bit worried.
I promise that I'll register within the alloted time so as to make MS change this new policy and give all you guys a break. Maybe I'll only activate on the last day, just to make them sweat.
This whole thing was a bunch of hooey when it was installed with XP and then Office. I have reinstalled 3 of my XP boxes now over 8 times due to bad code on Microsofts part (ineffective patches and updates that do not work as designed). Just today, discovered my laptop with XP Professional and recently allowed to install Service Pack 2, now has a trojan in it!!! How the hell that got in there is beyond me as I don't visit places that would promote or install this crap, but one got in there. Now i have to tear it down and do it all over again. I might ghost it this time just to save some of the hassle, but someone told me that ghosting it doesn't help the activation thing. Even if I activate before I ghost, it will still prompt me to activate again.
Now I'm going to strongly consider that Redhat as a more permenant install on here. Heck; I'm already using a decent browser and mail client!!!
All content in this message is copyright (c) 2008. All rights reserved. RIAA is prohibited here.
People aren't necessarily stupid. Most of the time (*especially* with computers), people are scared. They don't dare click buttons they haven't clicked before, they won't experiment to find out how things work and they won't try anything new on their own.
Whether this is due to the inherent complexity of computers (relative to other appliances such as a microwave or fridge) or due to people's now-ingrained expectation that anything out of the ordinary they do may break Windows is debatable, but it certainly fits with what I've seen in my job.
Novel problem involving something physical or something that the person has experience with, and they're probably quite capable of figuring out a solution on their own. But in a virtual environment, with overwhelming options, no experience, no understanding and a vague awareness of its fragility? Most people will go quite far out of their way to avoid the risk of breaking things or making them worse in this situation.Security through promiscuity is no better than security through obscurity.
I can see this development forcing people who are using pirated versions of Windows to purchase a backup solution that allows them to image their current setup in case they need to reinstall somewhere down the road. I can honestly say that it has been a worthwhile investment.
...because you never know who you're dealing with.
Bullshit. While the vendors we buy systems from ship with Windows installed, but one is still required to enter the install key and activate within 30 days.
I've got an activation removal tool and damned if I'm not going to start using it! Piss on 'em...I've got better things to do than wait on the phone, besides I have a strong aversion to doing business with anyone who enters our business relationship entertaining the presumption that I am going to steal from them.
Solaris 10 anyone?
You're using her as bait, Master!
Security issues, online activation and now disabling online activation. I wish Microsoft goes bankrupt.
A Wine Tarball of a pretend C drive with Office Pro installed and .wine directory with the text based registry files lets you dup to your hearts content and change ownership if you want....
It mostly works accept the stupid little advisor animals and MS-ACCESS. Oh and you can run that over any linux windows whatever filesystem....
You can even run it from another server as an X-window App. Just don't run the MS-Media player remotely as sound doesn't work remotely yet.
The only negative is that games don't work too well under X.
Sure, some people will put up with it because the average moron doesn't need to reinstall every 15 days like I do. On the other hand, the average moron will be quite pleased to obtain a copy of the corporate version (sans-activation) from a "friend of a friend" to avoid the tedium should his PC ever get munged up beyond repair.
Why don't they just give us Windows and make their money off Office and Visual Studio ? That would make everyone's lives much simpler, including Microsoft's
-Billco, Fnarg.com
The top 20 PC makers WORLDWIDE. Only a handful of those are in the US. Most of these computers come with a COA stuck on the side that is NEVER used! I rebuilt a Dell for a friend a couple weeks ago. I didn't use a recovery disc, I used the WinXP Home OEM disc that came with the computer. Even that copy is tied to the hardware, so no activation or key entry was necessary. That is not effecting legitimate users. If she lost that disc, and I gave her my XP home disc, she would be asked why she's using that key. She'd just tell them it's a Dell computer, and she lost the discs that came with it, so she's using another disc with the key on her system. That is still legit, but uncommon.
What is more common is for someone at school to copy a code off the side of the dell that is in the labs. That is what this is aiming at.
I work for the Computer Services department at my university, and we have a site license. Every machine that comes onto this campus is wiped clean of the OEM install and our build is installed before ever being used. All of those keys on the sides of those machine are pretty much free for the taking.
THAT is what this is aiming at. I hate to say this, but no matter how good you think you are, you are not in the "Top 20 OEM builders" - so your key should not be affected, and should still allow online activation.
when Windows Server 2003 asks me why I want to shutdown/restart the server.
B-|
Now it strips down its online activation ... I wonder if for the near future, activation by phone is also taken down ... well, and we don't have to activate anything at all ... which is cool ... free Windows ...
So what's a rent-a-cop to do if you just try to keep walking out the door beyond getting in front of you?? Grab you?? AFAIK (IANAL)Forcefully detaining a civilian is assault pretty much for every citizen except public law enforcement.
Club or no club, contract of no contract. You cannot force or be forced to perform on a contract by anyone except by order of a judge. And in that case it is public law enforcement the only ones who can enforce (potentially forcefully) that you perform according to the judge's ruling.
-Andres.
When I leave Best Buy I just offer my receipt to the attendant and have never been challenged. Since the cost of shop lifting just gets pushed on to the consumer, I certainly hope having someone at the door reviewing receipts actually works to save money overall. I can't see any need to have higher prices just to pay for shoplifters.
Can you really carry a sword in CA?
I always fancied the idea of wandering around with a nice big Japanese sword hanging beside me. It would certainly dissuade the riff-raff.
I never thought that I would legally be able to do it, however. Now I know that somewhere, albeit on another continent from where I am, that ambition can be achieved.
If your comment title says 'Re: Foo', I'm not likely to read it.
Let's break down the real facts, because it seems like SlashDot likes spreading da FUD..
If you purchase a computer pre-installed with Windows XP from a major vendor (re: Dell, Gateway, HP, etc. etc.), Windows XP will come already activated. Your Windows XP key is in the BIOS (as it already is in most Dell PCs), letting you reinstall Windows XP without activation over and over again as many times as you want.
When I bought a new Dell a few months back, I had to go online to activate the copy; with this new rule, I won't have to anymore. It'll already be activated.
Check out Ed Bott's blog entry regarding this. You can also read an article at Dell's site detailing the difference in "OEM" and "SLP" editions of Windows XP/2003.
Get the facts, people, before you start yelling that the sky is falling.
Not All Who Wander Are Lost
If Microsoft simply made all of the Dell, HP and Compaqs of the world activate online like the rest of use resellers must then they wouldn't have this issue. Now they've simply shafted the small resellers again. What they fail to mention is that small resellers don't get the benefits that an "Ultra gold premier" reseller gets. In other words, my customers are going to have to call to activate their new PC's. If MS just treated everyone fairly and stopped giving special treatment to the big OEMs of the world then they would have all of those numbers in the activation servers and they wouldn't need to chuck the whole system. Thanks Microsoft.