Ok: assume that this happens on a large scale some time soon, someone will then find a way of manipulating this to make a sackload of money at the expense of the bots. At this point the approach should be abandoned (although it is quite possible that the people who broke the system will be held to have done something illegal, but that is another issue). In a sense these algorithms have been in use for decades. If you look at the way SCO has been performing over the last few years, the chart fundamentals that institutions use were showing that SCO was a good investment as recently as 3 months ago. A bot which would have invested on those chart fundamentals would have cost their owners big bucks.
Hell, the market capitalisation is supposed to reflect the overall health of a company. Chart fundamentals are widely used instead, although ignoramuses like Warren Buffett seem to mostly ignore them.
Another thing that could easily happen is: a system with trading powers (rubber stamped or not) will be on the net, someone breaks into it and makes their own decisions (probably buying up a pump and dump stock those nice people keep mailing me about).
Yes, but they also have to be able to collect the data. On past performance they would simply ask Amazon for it.
They already asked Yahoo and Google for the contents of their databases. Yahoo (and maybe some others) said Yes. I do not know if Amazon would go the same way - probably yes - but if I avoid them then this should mean that no-one else can pull that stunt.
If Amazon were to lay down cast iron guarantees that they would only use this patent defensively - they said they are some years away from implementing such a database - then I would take them off my blacklist.
Amazon's pending patent, which would bar competitors from replicating the company's process for gathering information Let me get that right: If I have nothing to do with Amazon then no-one else can do the same thing? Looks like a small price to pay.
If he is not already using tooling like this then he probably should not be developing, this is basic QA. The point of the article was that this particular tool - not some other generic tool like it - is being used by some major projects. You are in a hole. Stop digging.
I follow the news:linux.samba Newsgroup a bit. Various Samba features have been shipped broken in various recent releases.
CIFSfs? (it is replacing smbfs and some Linux distributions have taken to disabling smbfs in the kernel to force people to switch) Cifsfs was broken in the newest major release. An intermediate release fixed that. 'Valid Users' used with 'smbpasswd': that was broken in the intermediate release. The next intermediate release will cover that.
No major piece of software is ever bug free, at least the Samba guys are very responsive to error reports.
I get 100,000 spams a month Sheesh. That is 3000 a day.
I get something in the region of 1500 a month, very few false positives but 10% (easily identifiable) false negatives which immediately get the click of death.
If I have been away for a few days, there is no such thing as a false positive. If it has been sorted out by the filter then it gets junked, sight unseen. With 3000 a day then it would be like that every day.
Via Technologies is the third player in the mix with 5.5 percent share during the second quarter of 2006, but that figure was inflated due to end-of-life shipments of the company's C3 processor and will likely fall over the rest of the year, McCarron said.
People are running servers with Via C3 processors? My desktop machine is powered by a C3/866 but it is a cheap low power (in all senses) processor. If the C3 even makes it onto the radar then it sounds like the statistics are by volume rather than by price. It is a pity that AMD have also stopped producing their Geode, that was aimed at the same markets.
Assuming we are talking SDRAM DIMMs running at 133, 256 cost 30 and 512 cost 50 at a shop within walking distance - http://www.atelco.de/ - DDR DIMMs are slightly cheaper.
hehe - I just looked at their 'English' pages, and promptly clicked the british flag again because I thought I was still in the German pages. Their price margins do not seem to cover translation. Whatever, having a chain like that around means I can help to update friends' computers in other cities and buy components then and there.
Getting this posting back on topic, a newbie will go for a market leader distribution with all the bells and whistles, or Knoppix. One of these will not fit well into 64MB, although I would have expected 256MB to be useable. The special Tiny Linux distributions may well be newbie-useable, but they will not be on a newbie's radar.
Knoppix is a special case. It frequently comes free with magazines so it counts as 'well known' and it does not normally need special configuration. It fails that test on my setup though: I have a Linux machine acting as firewall (with IP forwarding, no proxies), dhcp server and dns server. Knoppix only picks up on the dhcp part so I have to set up the gateway and dns entries by hand. Sigh. I suppose a standard configuration with a hardware switch/router/firewall would work fine. If Knoppix works then it is a great intro.
A 1.7Ghz P4 was top of the line in late 2001, although the 80GB HDD indicates the system was built more like April 2002. 256MB SDRAM cost around 80 back then. Ubuntu was founded in 2004, by mid 2004 the price of 256MB was 40 and 512MB 80.
If we are talking US$ here, the exchange rate should have been 4:5$ so whoever charged you $150 charged you about 3 times the going rate.
As I said somewhere else in this thread, Linux on a desktop should get away with 256MB although more would be a lot better. XP (which is around 5 years old) has somewhat lower requirements, but then so did Linux 5 years ago. Vista's requirements will presumably be a lot higher. This PC is something I built in early 2001, it has had 768MB for around 4 years now and runs SuSE 10.1 (the newest) with no problems. SuSE 10.1 *does* handle the hardware recognition automatically, although Laptops are more difficult. Why are Laptops more difficult? The manufacturers always supply Windows drivers, but often do not bother with Linux drivers.
Installing Software is trivial if what you have is a.rpm (Red Hat/SuSE based distributions) or.apt (Debian). I suspect you would have major difficulties installing a Windows application without the appropriate setup.exe.
Needing 'Administrator' to change anything serious is a feature, not a bug. Vista is apparently finally going that way.
Merging KDE and Gnome is a ridiculous idea, their foundations are different.
Ok, my Linux Desktop machine has 768MB. It is currently using around 145MB with kde and Mozilla loaded (I *want* an integrated Browser/Html-Editor and the 'save as' for SuSE/Seamonkey is just awful) with another 450MB cached. Starting OpenOffice adds another 30MB to memory usage.
I'd guess that my system would be perfectly happy with 256MB most of the time, but my original point was that you will not get a newbie-friendly Linux desktop system shoehorned into 64MB. A Firewall or Server with none of the desktop stuff would need far less, but then we are not talking like for like any more.
I used to have a 2.0 Kernel + Samba + Firewall (with IP forwarding) running on a 486SX with (I think) 20MB memory. A kernel compile needed close to 16 hours, but the beast performed perfectly as a server for a couple of years until the department closed down. That is when Linux is suitable for older machines - departmental (or private) servers, no arguments there.
A Newbie desktop machine would need to be able to run OpenOffice, Firefox and Thunderbird.
When I use my Pentium 266 / 96MB Laptop, Firefox runs reasonably well under a lightweight window manager. So does Thunderbird. Running both at the same time is a definite nono though.
(btw, I checked: My Laptop's 96MB *are* all cached)
I saw this article and turned my Win98 machine on again to download the final updates. Ok, the CMOS values were screwed because it has been unhooked for months, but I have a local Samba time server so wtf.
This machine is not about to become a Linux machine. The hard disc is too small (fixable, I have another unused one floating around) but the main reason is memory. The beast has 64MB which is not enough for any modern Linux KDE/Gnome system (my old Laptop has 96MB and is pretty turgid), not just that, these old machines would only cache the first 64MB of memory so I would have to start looking at NUMA if I wanted to upgrade (memo to self: does the Laptop have the same problem?).
Anyone who has a machine of that generation is going to leave it as it is. Linux is not an option.
A couple of years ago, the German magazine C't did a comparison of the various DSL services available, I think there were around 3 main services (Telekom/T-Online, Tiscali and maybe Arcor) plus several resellers. One thing that came out clearly was that Tiscali were artificially putting the brakes on certain services/ports - specifically those used for file sharing.
C't speculated that one of the reasons for encouraging file sharers to use another service was to reduce bandwidth consumption, another to reduce their exposure to legal actions.
Now I see that Tiscali are being mentioned here. Does this mean that they have changed their policy? That it applied in Germany but not the UK? That the file sharers are just plain stupid or that they are using their parents' connection and have no influence over the ISP used?
I'd say it was the other way round. The referee thought the Brazilians walk on water, and gave them the benefit of the doubt pretty much whenver he could. Having said that, the first goal was a scorcher. The second was a bit lucky.
You make it sound as though someone has cracked their website - which would not be the first time - but very subtly and very convincingly. Why else would this happen on a Saturday?
No way would I sue them, even if I had good grounds. When their IBM lawsuit is finally over, they will be bust bust bust. Move along there, no money left to grab. Anyone who sues them now will be left sitting on their own lawyers' bills.
Most people basically inherit their party allegiance from their family Yes, I vote the opposite way to my father. I am not sure which way my mother votes but at least half of us (once) kids conciously oppose our father, politically.
So the guys who granted the patent felt the same way? If I wanted to register a troll patent (and no, I have not read this one), I would try to make the language it is couched in as unreadable as possible. Make anyone who has to read it want to rip their own head off.
Whatever, I assume Microsoft helped make those rules, and I know they are trying to propagate them to Europe. For that sin, just over $64 million is not nearly enough.
That would not preclude them 'doing a Rambus' and patenting something they were involved in making standard, but there is no talk of a patent here (I have not seen what they base the claim to ELF on) and anything after 1.2 became public would lose out to 'prior art' anyway. When was ELF 1.2 released?
SCO are just prolonging the proceedings, but why? Is it just Darl's salary driving this? Does he think what happened to the Enron crew cannot happen to him?
Slashdot Mirror
Ok: assume that this happens on a large scale some time soon, someone will then find a way of manipulating this to make a sackload of money at the expense of the bots. At this point the approach should be abandoned (although it is quite possible that the people who broke the system will be held to have done something illegal, but that is another issue).
In a sense these algorithms have been in use for decades. If you look at the way SCO has been performing over the last few years, the chart fundamentals that institutions use were showing that SCO was a good investment as recently as 3 months ago. A bot which would have invested on those chart fundamentals would have cost their owners big bucks.
Hell, the market capitalisation is supposed to reflect the overall health of a company. Chart fundamentals are widely used instead, although ignoramuses like Warren Buffett seem to mostly ignore them.
Another thing that could easily happen is: a system with trading powers (rubber stamped or not) will be on the net, someone breaks into it and makes their own decisions (probably buying up a pump and dump stock those nice people keep mailing me about).
It was the one in 1987, September I think.
Last time I looked, the EU parliament was fighting over Software Patents. For the third time.
Put not your faith in European Institutions, for they can be subverted.
Yes, but they also have to be able to collect the data. On past performance they would simply ask Amazon for it.
They already asked Yahoo and Google for the contents of their databases. Yahoo (and maybe some others) said Yes. I do not know if Amazon would go the same way - probably yes - but if I avoid them then this should mean that no-one else can pull that stunt.
If Amazon were to lay down cast iron guarantees that they would only use this patent defensively - they said they are some years away from implementing such a database - then I would take them off my blacklist.
Amazon's pending patent, which would bar competitors from replicating the company's process for gathering information
Let me get that right: If I have nothing to do with Amazon then no-one else can do the same thing? Looks like a small price to pay.
If he is not already using tooling like this then he probably should not be developing, this is basic QA.
The point of the article was that this particular tool - not some other generic tool like it - is being used by some major projects. You are in a hole. Stop digging.
No major piece of software is ever bug free.
I follow the news:linux.samba Newsgroup a bit. Various Samba features have been shipped broken in various recent releases.
CIFSfs? (it is replacing smbfs and some Linux distributions have taken to disabling smbfs in the kernel to force people to switch) Cifsfs was broken in the newest major release. An intermediate release fixed that.
'Valid Users' used with 'smbpasswd': that was broken in the intermediate release. The next intermediate release will cover that.
No major piece of software is ever bug free, at least the Samba guys are very responsive to error reports.
I seem to remember that some BSD code was found in an earlier version of Windows a few years ago. Adding the rest of it seems like a nice idea.
I get 100,000 spams a month
Sheesh. That is 3000 a day.
I get something in the region of 1500 a month, very few false positives but 10% (easily identifiable) false negatives which immediately get the click of death.
If I have been away for a few days, there is no such thing as a false positive. If it has been sorted out by the filter then it gets junked, sight unseen. With 3000 a day then it would be like that every day.
I got it a bit wrong, AMD are closing their Geode design center, killing several of the planned design updates in the process.
Via Technologies is the third player in the mix with 5.5 percent share during the second quarter of 2006, but that figure was inflated due to end-of-life shipments of the company's C3 processor and will likely fall over the rest of the year, McCarron said.
People are running servers with Via C3 processors?
My desktop machine is powered by a C3/866 but it is a cheap low power (in all senses) processor. If the C3 even makes it onto the radar then it sounds like the statistics are by volume rather than by price. It is a pity that AMD have also stopped producing their Geode, that was aimed at the same markets.
The beast is 5000 Light Years away. The chances are that this has already happened.
Assuming we are talking SDRAM DIMMs running at 133, 256 cost 30 and 512 cost 50 at a shop within walking distance - http://www.atelco.de/ - DDR DIMMs are slightly cheaper.
hehe - I just looked at their 'English' pages, and promptly clicked the british flag again because I thought I was still in the German pages. Their price margins do not seem to cover translation. Whatever, having a chain like that around means I can help to update friends' computers in other cities and buy components then and there.
Getting this posting back on topic, a newbie will go for a market leader distribution with all the bells and whistles, or Knoppix. One of these will not fit well into 64MB, although I would have expected 256MB to be useable. The special Tiny Linux distributions may well be newbie-useable, but they will not be on a newbie's radar.
Knoppix is a special case. It frequently comes free with magazines so it counts as 'well known' and it does not normally need special configuration. It fails that test on my setup though: I have a Linux machine acting as firewall (with IP forwarding, no proxies), dhcp server and dns server. Knoppix only picks up on the dhcp part so I have to set up the gateway and dns entries by hand. Sigh. I suppose a standard configuration with a hardware switch/router/firewall would work fine. If Knoppix works then it is a great intro.
A 1.7Ghz P4 was top of the line in late 2001, although the 80GB HDD indicates the system was built more like April 2002. 256MB SDRAM cost around 80 back then.
Ubuntu was founded in 2004, by mid 2004 the price of 256MB was 40 and 512MB 80.
If we are talking US$ here, the exchange rate should have been 4:5$ so whoever charged you $150 charged you about 3 times the going rate.
Something is not right here.
Troll.
.rpm (Red Hat/SuSE based distributions) or .apt (Debian). I suspect you would have major difficulties installing a Windows application without the appropriate setup.exe.
Flamebait.
As I said somewhere else in this thread, Linux on a desktop should get away with 256MB although more would be a lot better. XP (which is around 5 years old) has somewhat lower requirements, but then so did Linux 5 years ago. Vista's requirements will presumably be a lot higher.
This PC is something I built in early 2001, it has had 768MB for around 4 years now and runs SuSE 10.1 (the newest) with no problems. SuSE 10.1 *does* handle the hardware recognition automatically, although Laptops are more difficult. Why are Laptops more difficult? The manufacturers always supply Windows drivers, but often do not bother with Linux drivers.
Installing Software is trivial if what you have is a
Needing 'Administrator' to change anything serious is a feature, not a bug. Vista is apparently finally going that way.
Merging KDE and Gnome is a ridiculous idea, their foundations are different.
Troll.
Flamebait.
Misinformative.
Ho Hum.
Ok, my Linux Desktop machine has 768MB.
It is currently using around 145MB with kde and Mozilla loaded (I *want* an integrated Browser/Html-Editor and the 'save as' for SuSE/Seamonkey is just awful) with another 450MB cached.
Starting OpenOffice adds another 30MB to memory usage.
I'd guess that my system would be perfectly happy with 256MB most of the time, but my original point was that you will not get a newbie-friendly Linux desktop system shoehorned into 64MB. A Firewall or Server with none of the desktop stuff would need far less, but then we are not talking like for like any more.
I used to have a 2.0 Kernel + Samba + Firewall (with IP forwarding) running on a 486SX with (I think) 20MB memory. A kernel compile needed close to 16 hours, but the beast performed perfectly as a server for a couple of years until the department closed down. That is when Linux is suitable for older machines - departmental (or private) servers, no arguments there.
A Newbie desktop machine would need to be able to run OpenOffice, Firefox and Thunderbird.
When I use my Pentium 266 / 96MB Laptop, Firefox runs reasonably well under a lightweight window manager. So does Thunderbird. Running both at the same time is a definite nono though.
(btw, I checked: My Laptop's 96MB *are* all cached)
I saw this article and turned my Win98 machine on again to download the final updates. Ok, the CMOS values were screwed because it has been unhooked for months, but I have a local Samba time server so wtf.
This machine is not about to become a Linux machine. The hard disc is too small (fixable, I have another unused one floating around) but the main reason is memory. The beast has 64MB which is not enough for any modern Linux KDE/Gnome system (my old Laptop has 96MB and is pretty turgid), not just that, these old machines would only cache the first 64MB of memory so I would have to start looking at NUMA if I wanted to upgrade (memo to self: does the Laptop have the same problem?).
Anyone who has a machine of that generation is going to leave it as it is. Linux is not an option.
A couple of years ago, the German magazine C't did a comparison of the various DSL services available, I think there were around 3 main services (Telekom/T-Online, Tiscali and maybe Arcor) plus several resellers. One thing that came out clearly was that Tiscali were artificially putting the brakes on certain services/ports - specifically those used for file sharing.
C't speculated that one of the reasons for encouraging file sharers to use another service was to reduce bandwidth consumption, another to reduce their exposure to legal actions.
Now I see that Tiscali are being mentioned here. Does this mean that they have changed their policy? That it applied in Germany but not the UK? That the file sharers are just plain stupid or that they are using their parents' connection and have no influence over the ISP used?
I'd say it was the other way round. The referee thought the Brazilians walk on water, and gave them the benefit of the doubt pretty much whenver he could.
Having said that, the first goal was a scorcher. The second was a bit lucky.
You make it sound as though someone has cracked their website - which would not be the first time - but very subtly and very convincingly. Why else would this happen on a Saturday?
No way would I sue them, even if I had good grounds.
When their IBM lawsuit is finally over, they will be bust bust bust. Move along there, no money left to grab. Anyone who sues them now will be left sitting on their own lawyers' bills.
Most people basically inherit their party allegiance from their family Yes, I vote the opposite way to my father. I am not sure which way my mother votes but at least half of us (once) kids conciously oppose our father, politically.
So the guys who granted the patent felt the same way?
If I wanted to register a troll patent (and no, I have not read this one), I would try to make the language it is couched in as unreadable as possible. Make anyone who has to read it want to rip their own head off.
Whatever, I assume Microsoft helped make those rules, and I know they are trying to propagate them to Europe. For that sin, just over $64 million is not nearly enough.
That would not preclude them 'doing a Rambus' and patenting something they were involved in making standard, but there is no talk of a patent here (I have not seen what they base the claim to ELF on) and anything after 1.2 became public would lose out to 'prior art' anyway. When was ELF 1.2 released?
SCO are just prolonging the proceedings, but why? Is it just Darl's salary driving this? Does he think what happened to the Enron crew cannot happen to him?