Slashdot Mirror
Australia's Technological World Cup Advantage
hotsauce writes "The BBC has a piece about how Australia is using software to gain an advantage in the World Cup. The Socceroos are running software that looks for patterns in attacks of the opposing team. It also shows the effectiveness of different response strategies by recording where attacks fail when countered. This is the first time Australia has reached the World Cup in 30 years, but a real test of the technology will come today when Australia must take on five-time and current world champions Brasil. The Socceroos talk about specific strategies for that game, also."
This piece reminds me of the software that the music industry invented, or possibly it was clear channel here in the usa that would listen to new songs and be able to pick out 'hits'. I agree that software in the world cup *might* help strategy, But I think many times it becomes a crutch that makes people lazy.
Windows Admin Tools
So much for software. Must be using Windows. Goooooooooaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllll!!!!!
Reminder: Apple owns 1/255th of the internet.
...scratch that idea. Back to humping wallabies.
Well technology didn't quite cut it for the Australians today. Brazil took the game 2-0.
On the other hand, the Socceroos played very well. They had at least two open goal chances. It came down to old-fashioned skills. Australians were excellent in creating chances, but just couldn't finish off. Brazilians had two great goals in the second half. But their super-star Ronaldo put out another so-so performance. According to one commentator:
"Ronaldo's performance was better than against Croatia - but not by much. He played the pass for Adriano to score but cuts a dejected figure as he trudges off to consoling pats from the dug-out."
Technology is of course changing the games, but probably online games more than soccer!
Placing 5000$ (AUS) on Brasil to win would be a good start.
Think of the Children; Sleep with your Sister
The Aussies seemed to do quite well in the first half... They were certainly stopping Brazil do many of their normal technical flourishes. Whenever one of them got the ball they would be jumped by at least two Aussies.
Strategy:
"Sorry lads, a few more bugs to work out! Lads? Nooooooo..."
Technology Quarterly
Sounds good?
Jun 8th 2006
From The Economist print edition
Software: “Music intelligence” systems that can distinguish hits from misses could change the way pop music is made and marketed
IMAGE
THE versificator, a machine described in George Orwell’s novel “1984”, automatically generated music for the hapless masses. The idea of removing humans from the creative process of making music, an art form so able to stir the soul, made for a good joke when the book was published in 1949. But today, computer programmers working in a new field called “music intelligence” are developing software capable of predicting which songs will become hits. This surprisingly accurate technology could profoundly change the way pop music is created.
The software uses a process called “spectral deconvolution” to isolate and analyse around 30 parameters that define a piece of music, including such things as sonic brilliance, octave, cadence, frequency range, fullness of sound, chord progression, timbre and “bend” (variations in pitch at the beginning and end of the same note). “Songs conform to a limited number of mathematical equations,” says Mike McCready of Platinum Blue, a music-intelligence company based in New York, that he founded last December. Platinum Blue has compiled a database of more than 3m successful musical arrangements, including data on their popularity in different markets.
To the human ear, music has changed a lot over the years. Music-intelligence software, however, can reveal striking similarities in the underlying parameters of two songs from different eras that, even to a trained ear, seem unrelated. According to Platinum Blue’s software, called Music Science, for example, a number of hit songs by U2 have a close kinship to some of Beethoven’ s compositions. If a song written today has parameters similar to those of a number of past hits, it could well be a hit too.
Carlos Quintero, a producer and remixer at Orixa Producciones in Madrid, recently tried out another music-intelligence system, called Hit Song Science (HSS). “It practically left me in shock, it’s stunning,” he says. Mr Quintero’s production company now has the most promising demo songs it receives from aspiring musicians evaluated by Polyphonic HMI, the Barcelona-based developer of HSS and Platinum Blue’s only serious competitor. (Both companies perform analyses in-house, rather than selling software.) The results—consisting of a graph, numerical scores, computer-generated comments and suggested changes—help Orixa’s managers decide which songs to produce. Then, during the recording and post-production phases, Orixa uses HSS to reanalyse successive versions of each track for fine-tuning.
Belief in music intelligence is spreading, as Polyphonic HMI and Platinum Blue rack up bull’s-eye predictions of success, including “Candy Shop” by 50 Cent, “Be the Girl” by Aslyn, “Unwritten” by Natasha Bedingfield, “She Says” by Howie Day, and “You’re Beautiful” by James Blunt. Still, labels that use music intelligence generally prefer to keep quiet about it, so non-disclosure agreements are common. “No one wants people to think their decisions are coming from a box,” says Ric Wake, an American producer of two Grammy-winning acts who routinely employs Music Science. Even so, the names of many customers have leaked out. They include Capitol Records, Universal Music Group, Sony Music, EMI and Casablanca Records. Labels sometimes don’t tell even their established artists when they use music intelligence to help decide which singles to promote.
Revenues at Polyphonic HMI will exce
The extreme centre is the paper's historical position. --Geoffrey Crowther
I am amazed to see Australia playing this well. The previous Australia i saw was eliminated by Uruguay 4 years ago. This year they got even, and eliminated them.
They came from behind in their first game, and played "mano a mano" against Brasil today, and i would say they even played better. They had bad luck with the score.
I think they will win their next game against croacia and go to the next round.
So maybe this software is actually helping them
Open Source Java Web Forum with LDAP authentication
Since Australia lost 0-2 to Brazil, it would appear technology isn't much of an advantage against those who really know the game. In /. terms, I'm reminded of how an IDE and high-level programming languages won't make you a coder.
Italy doesn't have this software.
Meanwhile, we who live in the real world can see a country that's an underdog of the football world trying a new idea to help tip the balance back their way a bit.
Stay in your little fantasy world isolated from reality and keep believing you are superior to everyone else.
What a shame, the socceroos played better football but lost anyway...
Funny, this article was posted after the game was over, 2-0 for Brazil. So there's the result of your "test".
The AACS key is NOT 0xF606EEFD628B1CA427BEA93A9CA9773F
At least they aren't yanks.
Finally som news for Nerds! I would like each match in the world cup to get an article on Slashdot. Seems to be some insightful fans in here.
"we who live in the real world can see a country that's an underdog of the football world trying a new idea to help tip the balance back their way a bit."
Put another way: some of their coaching team is pissing around using tools on computers to do what better managers, members of staff and players can do without technological assistance.
I don't doubt the usefulness of this technology in preparation, but there's a skill to be developed in players being able to read a game they're playing in while it progresses, or being able to make accurate tactical preparation from accurate predictions induced from other teams' styles. All that's required for that is video footage of the upcoming opponent and let the players and coaches take it into account (as they already do).
It's sport; this preparation is not more useful simply because it's more accurate due to limited subjectivity.
Australia, ranked 88th in the world of football, played Brazil, ranked 1st in the world of football, almost to a standstill in the first half.
They had two clear chances to equalize Brazil's first goal, but couldn't quite get there.
Then, late in the game, Brazil helped themselves to a freakish goal off a goalpost rebound, which made the score 2:0.
Australia losing to Brazil ONLY 2:0 is a testament to the Aussie's coach, Gus Hiddink, fearless play, and, very probably, the software that you're saying "didn't do it".
Look, I know you don't really understand "soccer" but this is as if, off the back of a crushing Superbowl victory, the best team in the NFL played the wooden-spooners, and ONLY won by one touchdown...
Well unless it's a game with no rules then passion doesn't factor into a result does it.... and anyway ... If you think about it - the socceroos had far more reason to be passionate than brazil who's there much more frequently. Passion's what you use on your woman not a game afaics. Anyone passionate about their sport is a nut.
... AFAICS the rest of the world copies AUstralian sporting innovation. Look at the groundbreaking technology we use for example in the pool. Is there a good reason why this sort of thing can't work in other sports? No. Go an investigate Australian sporting technology before you mindlessly show your own isolation and detachment from the real world by claiming things you know nothing about!
... and in case you don't know ... being the underdog is a great Australian tradition.
Tradition is just doing the same old thing over and over isn't it?
Anyway
Oh
So we'll let the rest of the world keep following their traditions and old tactics and we'll come back again next time. (do you really think other countries aren't going to act on the technology?).
I'm sure there are quite a few football clubs (and even countries) who are employing software analysis for their games preperations. I once saw this video about Rafael Benitez (manager of Liverpool FC) employing this software and spoke highly of it. UEFA Champions League and the European Supercup in 2005 and the FA Cup in 2006 speaks for itself.
The fundamental flaw with "intelligent" software like this is the fact that it only has a chance of working if no one else uses it. The instant a second team starts exploiting this it will throw off everything, as those teams will be playing in a way contradictory to their usual tactics, and thus all the statistics and probability it outputs are meaningless.
Yeah? They just lost to Brazil, 2 - 0. The software must be faulty somewhere...
Haven't you realised that you call the game soccer because you suck at it? Really, nobody else in the world plays american football. For better, you call it "football" despite you almost don't kick the ball. I would call the game "American Rugby" instead of football, but you believe you are the belly-button of the earth, where everybody looks at. Keep your imperial system, your boring sports (specially baseball). Meanwhile the entire world is watching a beatiful game. Cheers from Argentina.
I have pictures o' your momma and sista naked
We're about 12 hrs behind Australia time, the game hasn't even been aired here yet!
THANKS A HEAP
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
For the record, Canadians thinks soccer is boring, and we play real football here too.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Oh, yeah, the kidney of USA is talking, let's everybody hear it. The only important thing of Canda is Wolverine. Oh wait, he ain't a real canadian. Keep playing hockey. I'm not seeing Canada in the World Cup.
I have pictures o' your momma and sista naked
In time for next years Ashes, their cricket team is going to have a computer that advises their skipper not to take suicidal runs to substitute fielders.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
It appears to me that American Football is basically a start-stop game, and could probably view it in a similar way to chess openings.
Football is a more flowing game. There are a few set plays that get played out, they make up an extremely small part of the game due to the dynamic nature.
Therefore I would suggest that Football it is far more difficult problem domain than NFL for analysis to an arbitrary level of confidence.
Oh take off, you hoser.
Factoid: the official sport of Canada, is lacrosse, not hockey.
First off, the Aussies aren't ranked 88th, they're 42nd. Quite a bit of difference between the two.
Secondly, there aren't any wooden spoons here. (That would be American Samoa at 205th.) Every team in the World Cup is good, or else they wouldn't be here. Yes, there not all at the level of Brazil, but every team here can play.
[My prediction: Argentina.]
Yeah, but hockey it's KILOMETRES away in popularity.
I have pictures o' your momma and sista naked
Yes, real football doesn't involve kicking a ball with your feet!
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
So they are using software to search for patterns
big deal i think that the biggest strenght of that team lies in
the enormous barrel of talent and experience that their coach, the dutch Guus hiddinck has(NL)
He's the one that made Korea win against my all-time favorite Italia in the previous worldcup
He also coached a lot of big teams: Barcelona, Real madrid,
anyway it's nice to see them using software but don't ever think
that's the main reason they are performing so well for a relative rookie team
Anyway that's just my opinion as a belgian footballfan
Not so. This software, and many more like it used by professional sports teams around the worls -- particularly in the US NFL football clubs -- analyzes patterns in video footage. It calculates STATISTICS based on how often certain formations are used, what attacks, defenses are constructed, and analyzes weakneses based on previous performances. It is not a real-time process. Even if it was a real-time process, it only allows you to see what the current pattern is -- it's up to the coach to decide how to exploit it.
Think of it more as an analysis program that looks at past events. There is no guarantee such events will transpire the same in the future.
If you are familiar with baseball they have used a similar analysis system on pitchers (and batters now) for YEARS. Just counting pitches, what's been thrown and where you can get a VERY good idea of what a particular pitcher will throw at any time based on previous patterns. It works VERY well, and EVERYBODY uses it. The trick is to not operate in predicatable patterns -- a trick that can be very difficult for highly trained athletes with well formed muscle memory to achieve.
Australia's loss to Brasil today proves nothing. Only the coach and players (of the Aussie team) may realize the full effectiveness of the information. Seems to me they did OK (although a loss is a loss).
Mod parent up. Nicely sarcastic. I like yer style. ;-)
Because they got a good thrashing from Brasil...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_(soccer)
First goal was scored by a player who can only hit the ball with his left foot, the defender didn't force him onto his right, didn't close down and Brazil scored. Everyone in the world knows Adriano is only left footed, you would have thought the technology would have stressed this a little more.
And yesterday the US (by any reasonable ranking system about the same level as Australia) played Italy to a standstill and a draw with one less player on the park.
Technology helps in coaching, but what really helped the Australians and the US was guts and effort from the players.
As one commentator said today
"Imagine the talent of Brazil with Australia's work ethic"
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
looks like brazil hacked australia's software. australia did fare well against brazil - considering brazil is a powerhouse and australia hasn't been in the world up in 30 years.
...but Australia (newcastle university) just beat Australia (university of new south wales) in the finals of the 4-legged league of the robotic world cup for the first ever all-australian final match.
0 06 ] but its a lot.
I don't know how many different countries competed [ http://www.tzi.de/4legged/bin/view/Website/Teams2
The challenge is to program sony AIBO dogs. Every year the finalists' code is publically released so the bar rises every year. (since everyone can use the winners' ideas in their own submissions).
'No publisher will ever pay you enough to successfully sue them' - Dave Sim
Brazil: 2 Australlia: 0
another software promise that didn't work all that great.
I don't feel like it...
"rival explanation" doesn't mean anyone's wrong.
It does however mean your paternalizing aproach now makes you lok like an idiot.
"continue to ignore my point"
I'm saying technological advantage is not tactical advantage, you're saying it is. I'm saying that 'better managers' don't need the technology because they can process the information just as well and on-the-fly and translate it into adaptable tactical information, and I conclude that as such the use of technology in this specific regard is as the use of a counter-productive crutch.
No need to resort to name calling, we simply have a disagreement - but I have full faith that measures such as those used by Australia will do nothing significant to improve their chances of winning a football tournament. Moreover I'd concur with the suggestion made by the original poster that conviction and passion would be greater determining factors of success (although I don't condone the prejudice against Australians the poster also displayed).
Judging from the Socceroos performances thus far, they have a great conviction and workrate - and ultimately this will serve them better on the pitch than the highest of tech off it in terms of tactics (technology is a far greater determining factor in the gym and physical conditioning aspects of tournament preparation).
On an unrelated note I would query how you can insult two different people in a ranting manner, regardless of their points and be modded up to insightful.
Oh yeah, well the US team is gonna use technology also. We will use Predator drones to shoot the enemy team, and then turtore the survivors with electricity while blindfolded in a black hood. Our Soccer team won't ever be booed again on the world domin.....uh...stage again!
-1 Offtopic, -1 Flamebait
Table-ized A.I.
A fellow happens to be sitting next to a priest at a boxing match. Before the first bell, he notices one of the boxers crossing himself. So he asks the priest, "Will that help him win the fight?" The priest says, "Not if he can't box."
So, yeah, computer analysis has been around for ages in many sports. Take the mega-infield shift teams put on for Big Papi, for example. Still doesn't help if the team doesn't have sufficient skill to use the information.
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
My biggest problem with soccer (futbal?) is that it seems too random. It takes almost shear coincidence to get the ball into the goal. Low scores don't have enough occurences to factor out coincidence. It is hard to see strategy and skill turn directly into scores (or lack of scores in the case of defense). It is almost like large-scale pin-ball where the paddles barely affect the direction of the ball. I would suggest widening the gaol box.
Table-ized A.I.
It means that if you're playing handball you have to stand in your hands and catch the balls with your feet. Pfft. Seriously, if you want to find the meanings of football, try FIFA homepage instead of wikipedia.
I have pictures o' your momma and sista naked
It would seem to me that evaluating the effectiveness of this software vs Brazil would be a rather pointless exercise. Brazil is known for having a extraordinarily creative approach to the game, and marvelous individual talent, almost beyond what could be expected from human performance. The result of their approach is extreme unpredictability. When it works it is astonishing in its results, and it generates acutally beauty and grace, when it doesn't work it results in surprisingly uninspired play. It is almost chaotic.
Nobody would normally expect the "Socceroos", a team of mediocre skills to be able to compete with Brazil. They are totally outmanned respect in every respect, talent, culture, skill and tradition. The evaluation of this softwware needs to be done at a different level, looking at its predictions and result. And more likely the predictions should be made examining a different data set than what a match against Brazil would provide.
You all must be kidding... this is not a chess match. No software of computer can predict what is the best way to play. It is easy to simply watch a couple of videos with past matches and see if there is any patterns.
;)
And since every single world class team does this we can certainly predict that professional coaches try to minimize the patterns as much as possible.
The result: Brazil 2 x 0 Australia. Maybe a Brazilian hacker invaded their system and changed the fuses
Enough said. The Brasil defence was stellar, and the Aussie's wasted the few oppurtunities they had for scoring.
Time for new software, or players.
"Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live." - Mark Twain, "Taming the Bicycle"
If there's no challenge where is the fun? Actually, if you think FUTBOL (or soccer) is a large scale pinball you haven't seen professional football, try to look any match of the world cup, or maybe the english league. You find it boring because you don't get it, it's all about challenge.
I have pictures o' your momma and sista naked
If America cared about soccer we would be worldcup contenders every year, but there isn't much motivation for our best athletes to participate in sport that would bring them little recognition from the American public. Think about Randy Moss (or any NFL receiver/runningback) playing soccer. He is one of the fastest people in the world (shut up and check his 40 time if you think I am wrong), with unbelievable hand-eye coordination (catching a football w/ one hand in mid air). But there is no money in American soccer, and the major league sports market is already saturated.
Fact is, many Americans think that soccer is boring, but many do appreciate the "beatiful game"(nice spelling btw), most northern States have High School level soccer, and we do have national major league soccer. But a lot of people choose to follow other sports than soccer because the field seems to damn big to most americans, and scoring opportunities are few and far between. Football, hockey, basketball, and baseball all seem to have more explosive action. A ninety yard touchdown pass, a barrage of shots against a goalie, slamdunks, and grand slams all put the GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAL! to shame.
My biggest problem with soccer (futbal?) is that it seems too random. It takes almost shear coincidence to get the ball into the goal.
It's "Football". While luck does play a part -as in any other game- football is not "random" by a large stretch.
Low scores don't have enough occurences to factor out coincidence. It is hard to see strategy and skill turn directly into scores (or lack of scores in the case of defense).
Sorry, but you're not looking enough then. Catch a tape of Argentina-Serbia to see the effect of good teamplay and experience in the field. You'll also see how a _bad_ tactical and strategical preparation can hurt your team: Serbia ought to have done much better than losing 6-0. They were playing like they didn't know who they were against. I was actually surprised at how _badly_ they were doing.
It is almost like large-scale pin-ball where the paddles barely affect the direction of the ball. I would suggest widening the gaol box.
It only seems so because you're not sufficiently acquainted with the game. To make an example: Watching some FPS or RTS pro players having a go at CounterStrike or Starcraft leaves me with my mouth hanging open. It's like they were provided with a different version of the game. Sometimes, it looks like magic, or cheating. It's not. It's sheer experience and ability. Same here.
"I think it would be a good idea!"
Gandhi, about Internet Security
Anyway, Brazil seems to be most people's faverote for this cup, so I guess the Aussies did relatively well.
I do love "!" but not as much as I love "..."...
You find it boring because you don't get it
One can claim that about any sport. Get the scoring average up and the US populace may start paying attention. Maybe we just like instant gratification, for good or bad. If you want to grow it, then make it more appealing.
Table-ized A.I.
Americans favorite sports aren't olympic sports, have you ever realised? I mean, except fot basket your major sports include: American Football, Baseball, and invading 3rd world countries. :P.
It's ok, but don't come tome eith "that if we tried, we could win anything", because you haven't won anything yet. I mean, USA is classified because nobody plays football in the CONCACAF.
Who's playing?: Mexico, Costa Rica, USA, Jamaica, Canada Who else? Uhmm, sorry, Uruguay haven't classified and they were 2 times world champions. I mean, Australia has more footballistic authority than the USA.
And remember, win any world cup of something and then come talking with some "authority" about the subject.
I have pictures o' your momma and sista naked
And finally, thanks to your comment, I have an opportunity to rant on my disbelief in statistics. Because, as seen today, Brazil won not because it was better on the field as the statistics and patterns might show. Brazil won due to their incredible luck. Not their technique, not their tactics. Australia had a more convincing game attitude throughout the entire match, effectively neutralized Brazil's attack and midfielders. Ronaldo had another crappy game, along with Adriano, and the entire team has a very hard time trying to play as an ensemble instead of sparse players forced to wear the same team colors.
Statistics won't capture the immense disbelief in the Brazilian coach, Parreira. He's an exceedingly stubborn man and will likely refuse to change the initial lineup for the next match against Japan. Statistics make it look like Brazil is a favorite for the cup, but my money right now is on Argentina (did someone watch their amazing 6-0?).
Therefore, I my point is that soccer is a sport of outliers. Averages and frequencies actually mean little given all the variables around the game (referees that do not have a clear view of a controversial play, players who use malice to fool all referees, etc.) The possibility of outliers is at the heart of soccer, that's why FIFA refuses to give a, say, US football treatment on the game of soccer. Perhaps a better treatment of soccer will make use of Bayesian statistics or some Montecarlo thingie. We'll see.
DISCLAIMER: I live on Brazil and followed through all classifying matches and am afraid that Brazil won't make to the end due to the immense hubris Parreira might bring on us.
It isn't about numbers, that's stupid. It's about the moves. You can make a great game but maybe you don't win. We don't care raising the scores, that's stupid. The score line is big enough.
You all north americans like big numbers, why? do you have any inferiority complex??
I have pictures o' your momma and sista naked
Let's compare:
On one hand
A long anonymous post on Slashdot rubbishing a new technological idea.
On the other:
The real-life decisions and actions of professional world-class coaches.
Every single time anyone ever does anything new, you can come to Slashdot and see a million reasons why it'll crash and burn. Dozens of nerds get to feel like kings for a day because they rubbished the actions of someone successful and a few of their peers agreed with them.
And it's complete and utter bullshit. How the fuck do you think you know? How is it that you believe you know in advance of these more knowledgeable people, who by the way have put way more thought into this than you did when you penned your anonymous post, whether or not their ideas are of value? How is it that you already know whether there are any useful patterns or data to be found? Have you already done something similar and found nothing of use?
Not to be presumptious - if you have, or you know of some historic precedent, please tell us. What you said is nothing more than a self-reliant statement:
This is based on the premise that there is no precedent of people getting useful data from computer analysis of games. But is that because it has been tried and failed? You don't say. Has it been tried at all? I seem to recall that Formula 1 teams actively include computers in their race-day strategisation.Read that? RUGBY FOOTBALL. Amazing. A sport _mainly_ played carrying the ball with your hands. If you are going to ignore the fact that many sports have "football" in its name, that football as we know it (or soccer in some countries) is actually named "Association football", etc, you may want to go to the FIFA webpage directly and ignore the discussion about the name origins, forgetting about the rest of the sports out there which have "football" in their names. Oh, yeah, and never try to get a more general view and background information about the topic, by reading some sort of encyclopedia either. Get a clue.
*PLONK*
A goal in soccer is much harder to obtain than a touchdown in American football. A 2-0 game is more like a 35-14 game in American football. Also in the NFL the 32 teams are pretty close in talent level, this is because of the salary cap. A 32nd ranked team can always beat the 1st ranked team. It just doesn't happen very often.
Now in World Cup soccer/football the talent level is very uneven. In reality out of the 32 teams in the World Cup only maybe 6 are serious contenders. Of course in the NFL only 12 of the 32 make the playoffs. Yet all 12 have a serious chance of winning, the Steelers who won Super Bowl XL, were ranked 6th out of 6 in the AFL playoffs.
I understand that the World Cup is on a national talent level and that perhaps makes it an uneven field of play. Yet it has to be said that only a very few teams have a chance of winning in the World Cup. And the chance of a lower tier team winning the World Cup is almost impossible. Out of 17 World Cup championships only 7 teams have won with 5 of those teams having won twice or more.
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
...Brazil wins 2-0. Looks like little things like experience, practice and nationaly devotion to the sport mean more than a computer program. Go figure.
"Imagine the talent of Brazil with Australia's work ethic"
Please dont try to change Brazilian footbal: its beautiful as it is, even if in the end they are not the best ever.
It was calle RUGBY FOOTBALL because kicking or moving the ball with your feet was some kind of hability demonsatrtions, and it was completely legal.
Asociation football? Yeah, maybe you forgot that the game is played by teams, an association of players. And also the football clubs are named after that so? maybe I can't read between of the lines of what you're saying because English ain't my main language. Anyway, if I'm wrong you'll keep playing american football, meanwhile soccer is a passion who runs worldwide.
Oh, wait, north americans find it boring; they also find acceptable invading 3rd world countries. I won't expect anything reasonable from your country. HAHAHA, you even voted Bush twice!!! LOL!!!
I have pictures o' your momma and sista naked
Of course passion factors into a result, i'm willing to bet each and every player on any team in the world cup is passionate about football. I'd be very surprised if you excelled to that level of play without it. Passion simply describes how much you care about something, how much it means to you, it does not make you a "nut", as you say.
:)
Brazilians on the whole happen to be more passionate about football, which(and i'm talking out of my ass to some extent here) may be a factor in that they have a larger pool of individuals in the country who grew up on the sport to choose from for their teams. There may be a thousand potential Pele's in Australia born in the last few years but chances are they may never be drawn towards the sport because it's just not quite as popular as it is in some other countries.
In any case, i don't think the poor score today says anything at all about the validity of the software in question. Perhaps without it they might have lost 3-0? Or maybe the same score but less scoring opportunities? Who knows, things like these are very subtle, *partial* elements to the overall skill of a team. If it helped in any way to get them to where they are now, more power to it. The coach and the team will be the judge of that, not us
They applied statistical analysis to the less predictable of the modern team sports. Football (the English one) is one of the few sports at which a team that is playing worse than the opponent can win (and it does happen). In addition, somebody here said that Brazil's football style is remarkbly defined by creativity and unpredictability.
Brazilians call their national football t-shirt "Verde-amarela" (green and yellow, in this order). And they do hate when players think that they can win matches only becaus of Brazil's accomplishments and history in football.
Maybe we just like instant gratification, for good or bad. If you want to grow it, then make it more appealing.
It's hard to imagine a sport with wider appeal already.
The prevalence of flags flying out of cars here in Toronto and the surrounding area would beg to differ with you ;)
Canada is a very multicultural country, with many of its residents born in other countries, or one generation from it.
> It was calle RUGBY FOOTBALL because kicking or moving the ball with your feet was some kind of hability demonsatrtions, and it was completely legal.
Sure, because you said it. And I already know you take your sources seriously.
> Asociation football? Yeah, maybe you forgot that the game is played by teams, an association of players. And also the football clubs are named after that so? maybe I can't read between of the lines of what you're saying because English ain't my main language. Anyway, if I'm wrong you'll keep playing american football, meanwhile soccer is a passion who runs worldwide.
Oh, wait, north americans find it boring; they also find acceptable invading 3rd world countries. I won't expect anything reasonable from your country. HAHAHA, you even voted Bush twice!!! LOL!!!
I find this hilarious, but let me make one more comment. English isn't my main language either. I'm a Spanish football fan. And you still keep putting words in my mouth. I never said football was boring. IMHO, it's not. I haven't watched or played American football in my life, so I won't comment on that sport either. Oh yeah, and *I* didn't vote for Bush. You know, being Spanish and such... just in case you can't read between lines...
How are people going to prove that the technology had any effect, positive or negative? All I saw was that Ronaldo was ganged up by at least 3 Australians who were ready to tackle him or get the ball. It isn't exactly rocket science that you should cover a good attacker.
Oh, there's the answer to all the obesity across USA. Blame instant gratification. Wait, you can use it to justify the war against terrorism. Yeah, it's instant gratification against after-life gratification. Pffft.
I have pictures o' your momma and sista naked
Bah, just replace Bush with Aznar Y Alá Paco!! que es la misma mierda con distinto olor!!
I have pictures o' your momma and sista naked
I'm not American, and i like football(soccer), but i have to disagree with you here. If "soccer" was as ingrained in the American psyche as it is in most other countries, the rest of the world would really be in trouble. There are a lot of phenomenal athletes in America, and even more importantly, a *lot* of money that goes into them. Americans aren't somehow inferior athletes, and if from the time he could walk, every boy over there learned to kick the ball, i really do think they would dominate the sport.
:)
Look at the olympics, the americans dominate them almost every time. Imagine if some larger percentage of those athletes played soccer instead?
Lucky for us, that's not the case, and we get to enjoy the world cup without having to be annoyed at the americans dominating yet another precious thing in the world
Hehe, they'd know it they got hacked by a Brazilian, since all he'd do would be to replace their interface code with shoutz!
Seriously though, I know that it's easy to see patterns in videos. What I don't know is whether there is anything else to be found beyond that. It's worth looking, especially for a team who could count their country's world cup qualifications on a hand with most of the fingers missing.
Canada is a very multicultural country
Nah, Toronto is very multicultural, but take a road trip into Quebec, the Maritimes or the Prairies and marvel at all the different cultures you see (hint, that was sarcasm.).
You could argue, however, that Toronto is, for all intents and purposes, Canada, and I'd have a hard time debating that.
Disclaimer, I'm from the GTA..
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
The official name of Rugby is actually "Rugby Football Union." So that's exactly where American football got its name. We started playing "Rugby Football," shortened the name to just "Football," and started changing the rules. As an aside, why do Spanish-speaking countries call it "futbol?" "Fut" doesn't mean "foot" in Spanish, to the best of my knowledge. Just accept that people call games by particular names for historical reasons, and stop worrying about it.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Tennis ain't dominated by americans. #1 ain't North American, #2 Ain't American, #3 the same, even #4. The same for women.
> ...and you need to read it again and realize that if there are two alternatively theories presented (hence the words "rival explanation" in your quote), then arbitrarily picking one of them and presenting it as fact, makes you look like an idiot.
I agree partly. My intention was to mention both theories and strongly stating the one I think is right, for the reasons stated in the external link and all the information we have at hand. I don't think that makes me look like an idiot. I didn't hide any information, by quoting some sentences and linking you to both articles. The grandparent went on a rant with inaccurate information and still got modded "Insightful". Our discussion thread is already there, so you can get the picture and see what (s?)he is about.
"The Philosophers' Football Match was a comedy sketch on Monty Python's Fliegender Zirkus and later a part of Monty Python Live at the Hollywood Bowl.
i onal-philosophy.htm for a transcript.
The sketch depicted a football match between philosophers representing Greece and Germany, including Plato, Socrates and Aristotle on the Greek team, and Heidegger, Marx and Nietzsche on the German team. Instead of playing, the philosophers competed by thinking while walking on the pitch in circles. This left Franz Beckenbauer, the sole genuine footballer on the pitch (and a "surprise inclusion" in the German team, according to the commentary), more than a little confused. Confucius was the referee and Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine were the linesmen."
I forget who finally "gets it" and does a goal rush. Very funny sketch, what with the announcer enthusiastically describing what is basically nothing happening.
See also http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~ebarnes/python/internat
really great, but did not work today against Brasil. 8-) BRASIL!!!
No doubt could USA dominate football, if americans cared for it. The american market can pay bigger salaries to players playing in a single
US league. There are over 250 million people to serve with matches, compared with the multitude of leagues in Europe. Football stars in Europe earn less than even ice hockey stars in the NHL do. However, I belive that would be the end of football as I care for it. As the USA gets more power in the football world, they would change the game to suit them better. Probably the rules for football as played in the USA would be changed to allow for more commercial breaks, more "action" (as defined by american taste!), and the most interesting events (between nations - such as the World Cup, the UEFA European Championships and qualification matches for these) would not as much attention and time as now.
For all the US citizens who don't devote a lot of attention to 'soccer', just watch Rocky IV again.. All the technology in the world can't defeat true class.. Although Brasil's skill really doesn't deserve comparison to a Rocky movie, Hagler or Ali would be a better example .
"Fútbol" is the spanish pronunciation of football. The proper translation would be "balonpie" (literally ball-foot) which is seldom used. Fútbol is shorter, too.
Another aside: italians call it like a mediaeval sport of their own, calcio.
Software match analysis has been around for around 10 years, first tried by the Northern Ireland team then used by Brasil and USA back in the 1994 USA world cup!
Work Ethic?
You know how dog pups play fight so they'll know how to hunt and fight later.
The Brazillians love the game, that's why they're good work ethic probably wouldn't help.
Just focusing on something important to the Hearts of Slashdotters... bitching about Microsoft.
I remember about a year ago MS did a big TV ad blitz for Windows XP, and in it they showed some Soccer ("Football") coach bragging that he was running some software to analyse his opponents tactics.
Bloody buggy MS software.
Work Ethic?
My reaction too - I'm Australian, and on reading that comment ended up with coffee all over my monitor. The big question is: Who's going to clean it up?
"But is that because it has been tried and failed? You don't say. Has it been tried at all?"
Are you a football fan, or is your only interest here in the technological aspect of this?
At its core, what the Socceroos' Ron Smith is doing is digitizing and indexing video and coupling it to statistics such as "Where do [teams] regain possession? How far do they progress with it?" as well as percentages and timings with zonal correlations of possesion to location on the pitch.
It's simply a more advanced form of the information you find in football reports in the media week-in-week-out in a Premier League season.
Guus Hiddink is singularly a greater influence on the approach and performances of the Australian team, and I base this belief on two things: the result he achieved with South Korea in the 2002 World Cup, and the qualification by the Socceroos for the first time in 30 years. Now in the tournament the team is doing quite well, and may make it out of the group stages, but after the tournament Hiddink goes to manage the Russian team. If my opinion on this has any validity it'll be borne out in how Australia do after Hiddink leaves - because the technology will still be there (although the odds are stacked more against them when they play qualifiers in one of the Asian groupings instead of Oceania).
Either way, this doesn't do any more to support your original point that it will help balance out the game for the lesser teams - international football will always have an imbalance due to the prominence of teams from leagues in only a few countries (Spain, Italy, Germany and England) being involved in major international competition every year, while other countries such as Australia, Ghana, Togo have players who do not have as many viable options for a professional football career in their vicinity.
thank you for the first sane post in all these "Brasil won 2-0... looks like the software was useless" replies.
/. crowd is like expecting a computer program to win you a soccer game. In fact... it's more similar than I first thought...
Although expecting a sane post from the
being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
You set a great example mate, consider yourself a wanker.
No big deal I think.. Unless they can input the information into a football-playing robot, they're still dealing with the human factor..
--
Stay tuned for some shock and awe coming right up after this messages!
fyi One other reason Australia wasn't in the world cup for 32 years was, of course, because they were cursed: http://www.theglobalgame.com/blog/?cat=69
this is true btw. well, I'm not sure if it's the reason they weren't in the cup before, but these events did happen.
Well apart from the fact that there are 10 times as many people in Brasil as Australia, you also have to remember that Australia is not interested in football. Sure there's a flurry of excitement now that we're in the world cup but once we are knocked out no one will care anymore. We consistantly produce world class performers in many other sports (swimming, rugby, cricket) which tend to be the concentrated on sports here in Australia, as well as Aussie Rules, while football is disregarded.
When you have a population of only 20 million people and the sport in question only ranks fourth or fifth in your country's sporting priorities, there's no hope of competing against Brasil who live and breathe football.
being vague is almost as cool as doing that other thing...
You are talking about Australia, first time in the world cup in 30 years vs the worlds number 1 side. Yes they lost. And eveyone likes to bitch and moan about 'omg the software must be broken blah blah blah." and that it didn't work etc.
Can anyone really say that the program did not help? Who knows, without it the score might have been 4-0, or maybe the Aussies might not even have made it to the world cup in the first place.
But that sort of thinking might be construde as positive. And that sort of thinking wouldn't allow people to bitch.
Well done Australia.
Yeah, you can have all the tech gizmos you want, but if you can't play soccer well enough to beat your opponent, none of it really matters does it? Today Australia played Brazil and lost, which needless to say is a tough opponent, but I believe a team needs to concentrate more on traditional methods of how a team becomes a better soccer team and less on progressive tech methods...the time is too early for technology to make that much of an impact in a game where it's 100% humans tossing around a ball hoping to put it in a box-like structure.
Insinct is stronger than Upbringing - Irish Proverb
World cup players are bought and sold around the world so it is now the countries that put the money into it that win. Equador played really well but in 4 years Brazil will have bought all the talent in that team and Brazil will keep their (and Equador's) winning edge. The US is still really a newcomer but they can afford to get into it so next time they will buy a better team and do better.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Sounds like someone simulated a FIFA 2006 game on PS2, CPU vs CPU.
You will, or it's the sack for you. Go WorkChoices!
The NAB, a sponsor of the Australian Socceroos, allows fan to create a TV adon their website. The winning TV ad is to be shown on national television!!
Website has cool flash and is full of small video clips.
Check out http://nab.com.au/socceroos
Funny thing is, I'm an Aussie who has been following the cup consistently (but not fanatically), and I've heard a lot about the players (Kewell, Viduka, Aloisi, etc..), the coach (who's a national hero now), the opposition, and a whole lot of trivia, but I hadn't heard anything about this software until now. It certainly hasn't sparked much interest over here.
But it's just great seening our team get so much attention!
I'm a software visionary. I don't code.
You need to realize the name "football" doesn't stem from the fact that you play the ball with your feet, but from the fact that players play on foot rather than on a horse or anything else. You should read the Wikipedia article about Football (in general) and Association Football.
...and you need to read it again and realize that if there are two alternatively theories presented (hence the words "rival explanation" in your quote), then arbitrarily picking one of them and presenting it as fact, makes you look like an idiot.
"Boo-hoo... It's not American rugby, it's FOOTBALL and it roxxorz, the best game of the world! All the rest of the world is wrong!"
I'm so touched... Shall I start using some non-standard system instead of the metrical one?
Where's Brasil? Is that a smaller colony full of people from Brazil?
Meh - 95% of the IT industry has never really had much in the way of IR protection anyway (nor do I think many IT professionals need it).
Yes - because there wasn't a hint of sarcasm in my post.
I saw on tv here in Japan last night about Japan doing the exact same thing. My guess is every team has similar software.
That's what they should call the bug.
Trying to analyse Brazilian football produces pseudo-random results. You can't predict what crazy shit they're going to pull on you, and their general movements on the field are best visualized using excited electron clouds.
Let's just keep the PC's in the basement and the footballs in the stadium, alright lads?
...well, technically a Canadian (in theory, my app to be dual-Oz is long registered) but I've lived in Oz for the last 41 out of 43 years, think/talk as an Aussie, and so on (except I don't like beer or watermelon).
It would be orange-and-mango juice on my monitor, too, because I know about coffee, but the dehydration at "work ethic" is something we carry in common. There are so many jobs that we're willing to duck-shovel to foreign workers as fast as we can.
Glad that this laptop (TwinHead DuraBook R15D) is pretty much splash-proof.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Wait a second, did you say a soccer field seems "too damn big"? And here was me thinking it was too damn small!
Look out!
If you mark the player properly, they wont be able to get the ball.
You mean soccer, right?
As another aside, the Germans call it Fussbol, and the Dutch call it voetbal, both of which are direct translations of foot-ball.
There is even a Dutch verb voetballen, which means "to play football".
The soviets tried, software, hard science and cold calculations vs spirit. Rocky now is a statue, Drago only lives as a parody of Brokeback Mountain...
[]'s Carlos Cardoso - Becoming a brazilian ProBlogger, typo by typo
If Italy beats the Czech team, and the US team beats Ghana, the US team will be the runner up in Group E [Czech Rep.; Italy; US; and Ghana]. In the Second Round, the runner-up from Group E will play the winner from Group F [Australia; Brazil; Japan; and Croatia].
So, it's likely that Brazil will win in Group F, and at least possible that the US will be the runner up in Group E: In the Second Round, the US may face Brazil (in which case, it is increasingly unlikely that the US team will advance to the Quarter-Finals).
The BBC has a decent page for the World Cup, if anybody is interested.
If the Aussies would have been watching The DaVinci Cup, they would have known that no amount of tech would help them. Pauly proved it. What a bunch of stooges.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
Brazil: 2 Australlia: 0
Get the spelling right. It's Straya!
It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
They make winning a matter of science in all sports. They run full hydrodynamic analysis on their swimmer performance using an approach not dissimilar to the one used to analyse results from a wind tunnel. They use thermal imaging, P-NMR on muscles during load to optimise pre-even training, etc. They have something like 200+ PhDs a year in sports related biochemistry, medicine, physiology and a few other related fields all working in that sports institute (sorry forgot the name).
You don't suppose that with all those resources they could do something to make soccer interesting or (God forbid) entertaining?
It's very ridiculous all this stuff now, an experimented coach and his support team uses something more advanced of silicon technology: neurons.
And from a pattern recognition perspective there is nothing better yet.
Forget Australia and the buzz, think again... in Argentina!
you mean they fixed it in CVS??!? --Australia
"Tennis ain't dominated by americans. #1 ain't North American, #2 Ain't American, #3 the same, even #4. The same for women."
Point proven. Not that many Americans play tennis - especially at a competitive level. I played some as a youth and the local courts were always open. None of the "popular" kids played tennis. At the time it had a stigma as an upper crust sport (although I was lower-middle class). I'm not sure how such an accessible sport requiring little equipment and (mostly) free courts retained the "upper crust elitist" stigma and golf requiring lots of equipment and pay-to-play courses broke it.
Germany is at least a very close second to Brazil in football (soccer) dominance. Germany and Brazil have appeared in seven World Cup final matches apiece, and both appeared in the last World Cup final (2002), which Brazil won 2-0. That win gave Brazil five World Cup championships. Germany has three. To those that haven't figured out the obvious: if Germany won that match, Germany would have just as many World Cup championships as Brazil.
Anybody who has watched World Cup football can tell you that German-style football (currently and historically) is the antithesis of Brazilian-style football. German football is exactly the kind of football the parent comment claims will never win the World Cup. If a poll for "Most Boring World Cup Team" was taken at World Cup sites, Germany would win in a landslide (even in Germany, I bet). Very efficient and effective, though.
Fake Homer: Marge, honey Fraulein, I'm home!
Marge: You're not my husband!
Fake Homer: Ja, please forgive my unexplained two week absence. To make it up to you we will go out to dinner at a sensibly priced restaurant then have a night of efficient German sex.
Fut does not mean foot, and bol does not mean ball either but "futbol" is how you pronounce "football" in spanish. This is a lot closer than calling it "Soccer" where Americans decided to pick a random word from an old name, shorten it and add a letter. Nice try though.
[alk]
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I don't know how you can claim, "And yesterday the US (by any reasonable ranking system about the same level as Australia) played Italy to a standstill and a draw with one less player on the park."
The US is a very strong team this year. It is primarly the same team that made it to the top 16 last world cup where they beat the Germans in the Quarter-Finals (despite what the final score was they did win that game). The FIFA ratings list the US team as number five coming into the World Cup. That is probably where your objection is, however lumping with Austrila is a bit off.
Please take your uninformed troll elsewhere.
Oh, there's the answer to all the obesity across USA.
After having several relatives witness eating styles across Europe, I've concluded it is not the volume of eating, but of the stress. Americans don't stop to enjoy meals, instead rush them. Our economy moves faster and that is why we have more money, but the flip side is more corporate pressure to rush and perform.
Table-ized A.I.
The problem with the "football means playing a ball game on foot as opposed to on horseback" is that it has absolutely no historical justification at all. It's an ex post facto rationalization. We have plenty of historical evidence that medieval and early modern football was played with one's feet (some versions allowed some use of hands, but kicking predominated); we have no evidence anyone thought that the word was used to distinguish it as a game played on foot as opposed to on horseback.
The biggest problem with that "explanation" of the word football is that there are no medieval English ball games played on horseback so just what would the word "football" be used to distinguish itself from? "Football as a game of ball played on foot instead of on horseback" is a totally unnecessary word if in fact no one was playing ball games on horseback at the time.
Polo was not played in medieval Britain but was introduced into Britain in the 19th century; I doubt very much medieval Englishmen were using the word football to distinguish their game from ancient polo as played in Iran, Persia, India, central asia, etc, since they would have never heard of the game and would have not known anything about it; it was a game of remote horsemen unknown to them except by distant rumor.
Frankly, this "explanation" of the word football makes no sense. Football is played on, and with, the feet. Plenty of other ball sports back then were played on foot but were not called football (ie, cricket, golf, hockey, hurling, bowling, etc). Why are were not these sports also "football" since they were ball games played on foot? In fact all medieval English ball games were played on foot. The only "games" played on horseback by medieval Englishmen were hunting sports, chasing game, etc, ie, no ball play involved at all.
No, sorry, but football = "ball game played with feet" still makes the most sense.
As for TV advertising, that is rapidly becoming a moot point, with TiVo and other DVR time-shifting devices. The 30 second commercial break is going to be disappearing as the only way to advertise on TV; soccer therefore will not be disadvantaged in future by its inability to be chopped up and interrupted by advertising. Time shifters will simply avoid the commercials. Sponsorships, placements, pre- and post- game advertising, screen crawls and the like, will provide plenty of advertising revenue without interrupting the game. Soccer is going to come out a winner as the new technology makes the old advertising model obsolete. People will start to realize that American gridiron football is four hours of "play" during which only one hour of actual action occurs. Not good for the NFL, long term! Ditto MLB. In reality we'll probably see a sports market heavily balkanized by taste; soccer won't dominate North America the way gridiron football currently does or the way baseball used to, but it will be a very sizeable minority taste.
...please, go back to watching NASCAR.
I predict a left turn...and another one...and another one...
Yep, the seppos do well in many sports, but if you look at Olympic results on a medals-per-capita basis, or a medals-per-dollar basis, they're way down the list. There's some fine athletes in the US, but they're a smaller minority than in many other countires.
As for the football software, I really don't think the Aussies ever thought it was more important than skill, training, blah blah blah, but simply another possibility to squeeze a couple more percentage points of probability, especially in a game where a single fluke hit or miss can mean the difference between winning and losing, and against the toughest opponent in the world.
By your reasoning the US team should win since they rank higher than Italy. I am not saying USA is a bad team but FIFA ranking is a joke.
I found the Americans a bit arrogant, especially the coach's comment how Australia is there to make up the numbers. Well, Australia has more points and a better goal difference.
A) Pick the ball up and run with it.
B) Change the shape of the ball to oval.
C) Start a fight.
I guess "all three of the above" is an option too. Do you think it would catch on?
It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
Anyone who knows anything about football (or soccer as some of you will incorrectly call it) will be well aware of how well prepared the players are. DVD's detailing your opposing player\team are common place these days, and computer software being used is not revolutionary either.
For example - Premiership football teams have been using Pro-Zone software to help them in tehir play for a good few years now. Australia are by no-means leaders in this field.
From what I understand of Pro-Zone, it analyses your own teams play. It analyzes and shows things such as how much area a player covered per game (fitness levels), whether they stuck to their positions (strategy) and various scenarios i.e. if Attacker A had run here, Defender B would have been forced to mark Attacker A, leaving Attacker B open to shoot.
Obviously using these results you can analyze different areas \ styles \ fitness of particular players.
I'm sure it does plenty of other things (our football manager used to rave on about how good it was), whether this includes analyzing the other team or not I'm not sure.
Who knew this would ever be needed on Slashdot.
Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in mud. Soon, you realize the pig is dirty, and he likes it.
jajaja. "Balónpie" truly sounds awkward in spanish, and almost nobody calls it like that (spaniards perhap?). Anyway, sports and traditions are not usually translated. It would be equally awkward to demand translation from anglo readers for, let's say "salsa" and "merengue"? : hey, let's party! feel like dancing some "sauce" and "whipped cream desert" tonight! jaja.
please define "work ethic".
There is already a regional strength factor, with the European and South American tournaments ranked highest, but the factor is arguably much too weak (the lowest being Asia and Oceanaia, at 0.93 each.)
They were pretty unlucky not to beat johnny boche that time, it's true.
Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
...but the US has historically not done badly (there are a lot of US flags on that list, and of the top four "weeks at no. 1" three are American (including Sampras in the no. 1 spot.)
:%s:work:/.:g
:%s:work:/.:g
Computer Operator: "I am now telling the computer exactly what he can do with a lifetime supply of chocolate!"
Karma: NaN
... in recent official competitions.
So there you go.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
All of France players were French.
Period.
They could not play for France otherwise.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
The talent pool has increased in countries that used to be a laughing stock.
The Netherlands were preey much in the bottom level of European and World football until they introduced football academies in the 60s. In the 70s they ecame arguable the best team of the decade, reaching 2 WC finals.
France, Denmark and now some African teams have academies that are createing new talent.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Last world cup both Germany and the US reached the quarterfinals, all else being equal, Germany performed badly in the European Championships while the US had moderate success in official torunaments where they participated.
Also Germany has played mostly friendlies that have less value than official matches (of which the US played a good deal).
As for Spain, they were knocked out from the last World Cup by South Korea in the same round, so it is perfectly legitimate that the US may be better ranked.
The FIFA ranking may not be the best one (I prefer the ELO one, look it up) but it is not pulled out of thin air.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
i would like to the refs carrying a wifi linked video-pod for reviewing instant replays to cut down on the amazingly wrong decisions. socceroos using them is kinda straightforward
Tell me about it. Just like the Americans dominate in basketball
Or baseball.
Peace be with you,
-jimbo
XML Tools for Mac OS X
hand-eye coordination probably wouldn't help him much playing rest-of-the-world-football.
Peace be with you,
-jimbo
XML Tools for Mac OS X
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh, we, australia, just lost to italy in the last 10 seconds of the game!! the game was ours, we had it! majority posession when an italian striker takes a dive in front of our goal. 10 seconds, the ball was in there half for 80% of the 2nd half. I was there shouting "FUCK OFF!!" 8 times in front of 10,000 people in circular quay just beneath our sydney harbour bridge. this was history, this was the first time we've ever qualified, the first time we've ever made it this far. You would not beleive the frenzy people have been in over the last few weeks, we're a nation normally devoted to rugby and other sports like cricket. One bad decision by a referee will stop a major cultural and sporting shift in the australian psyche, it's 5 am and im still reeling in anger. soccer is not boring, not from what i saw tonight. the police feared us winning, it would have been total anarchy on the streets.