So if I get it right, web servers with an extreme payload perform better with NT? Assuming Slashdot runs Linux, let's go for NT, since it also runs faster on single cpu configurations, their M6800 (or is it a Z80?) will probably benefit from it...:)
But! Until the bottleneck (which is being sorted) is reached, the results are identical.
So, for non-thumping applications today, standard Linux is just as good as NT and is FREE (and open). And, soon, when the bottleneck is fixed, it will be equal with the leaders.
In any case, was there a benchmark for "hacker satisfaction"?
Good question, but as I wasn't there (I was invited, but declined as I was giving a talk at the Paris Linux Expo) I can only speculate.
I doubt it was the context switches, as in all the tests I've done on NetBench these are down in the noise. In this case it may have been the filesystem as it takes some tricks to ensure you are running with an optimal ext2 setup (and rememver there were NT kernel people there tuning the NTFS setup). But Ingo at RedHat has done quite a bit of work on this so I'm still hopeful for a 2.4. re-test.
weird al didnt write either of those songs, the guy used to work for premrad radio, www.premrad.com i dont remember his name, though its in the official weird al FAQ, al didnt sing them either.
Actually, this is not the problem. The problem, as has been demonstrated, is the scalability of the Linux TCP stack with multiple processors.
When Samba is run on a Solaris system (which has a highly parallel TCP stack) on an x86 box then Samba beats all of the NT numbers listed for network throughput. The problem on the Solaris box is that the *file system* is poor, as this throughput is only obtained against a tmpfs (ram) disk.
When the Linux TCP stack is parallelized to the same extent Samba on Linux will beat NT in the same way, only the Linux filesystem is much faster, so no tricks such as tmpfs will have to be played.
Isn't the whole idea of publishing and producing a document going to need to be overhauled?
Here's a scenario: We all get so interconnected with the convergence of email, voice, networking, chat, web, and whatever else the global data network can put forth that information flow becomes a stream, rather than a granular flow. Where do documents fit in here? Why do we need a document?
It's not a degree specifically in game programming that needs to happen. What needs to happen is we need more hands-on experience in a variety of real-life applications while we're in college. Problem: right now too much of the degree is spent on "lib ed" and math and physics, etc., because of the insufficient education we receive before college in the US (unlike Japan, Russia, and many other places where a high school grad probably knows more about math and science than an American knows after finishing a BS degree). There's no time left for what really counts: real projects. I'm finishing the last class of my computer science degree, and wish that I had been given classes teaching COM, CORBA, 3d gaming, and many other similar commercial skills as part of the degree. Everybody finishes with many general skills, but lacking in any specifics unless they have a job on the side. If the first place they end up at is a Win32 shop, they'll eventually learn that, but will still be unfamiliar with many other important skills. If they end up in gaming, they'll be clueless on things like CORBA, so they'll also be stuck. We really need a broader experience in what's out there before we graduate. Even grad school doesn't really provide that.
I found the kernel release speculation especially interesting. Next kernel: 3.0. And he's said before that the next kernel should be out in the fall. Woohoo! (yes, I realize the number mean nothing...still...) --- Put Hemos through English 101!
I take your points to be valid, as I wrote this article to target the largest audience and felt necessary to explain things to that some readers might not be familiar with. Those readers are assuredly not slashdot readers. This seemed a better alternative to submitting multiple versions for different audiences.
I also took a meditative tone of voice to bring the issue of operating system and application choice away from an abstract position, to a more personal perspective. As for footnotes, I find them to be annoying[1], but can agree with your position. Personal choice and preference rears its ugly head again.
So I took the risk of explaining too much at the risk of offense.
Hey, this is all a little crazy to me. I am going for a dual Major in Computer Science and Computer System's engineering at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. When I first go there, I was like, yah, I am going to learn so much. Well, I will tell you, you learn a lot as a undergrad, but there just isn't enough time. You have to learn to walk, before you can learn to run.
I was pissed when we got into some CS classes, and we were programming little CONSOLE programs. I was like, "why don't we learn Xwindows, or Win32 stuff". Well, I have learned that it is best to nail down the concepts first. If they are offering a degree in Game Programming, these people (unless it is a grad degree, I did't see that specification) aren't going to have a solid foundation in the underlying. I have talked to MANY people who don't truely even understand the concepts of Pointers, because they just usually call a bunch of APIs (win32, etc) and never really learn the concepts.
Even with the use of a balun to match impedence, you still have the issue of 10base2 termination and distance limitation. On 10base2 you have the 100 meter limitation, with 100base5 you have a 500 meter limitation; All of this and not to mention that your cable must be terminated at all endpoints and must be a bus configuration, and not a star configuration like most cable companies run....along with the fact that the cable is already live and has modulated signals that will interfere with Ethernet.... it'll never work
I was hopeful about this too, but according to the reports at Office 2000's debut, it writes XML which doesn't conform to spec and includes lots of illegal tags which can only be rendered by (surprise!) MS Office 2000 or IE5. I'd call that "Embrace and Stifle."
I have a question: What would prevent Microsoft from using their current anti-competitive tactics without laws against them?
Unless I totally misunderstand the concept of anarchy as a political system, it seems to me that Microsoft would be free to use bribery, extortion, and intimidation to maintain a dominant market position.
Please explain how anarchy would lead to increased consumer protection. And yes, I know that any increased consumer protection resulting from MS vs. DOJ will be incidental at best.
I do want to keep this polite, so I won't address the comment about sitting in my nice home in front of my expensive computer...
First the ontopic: "...there's a difference between thinking up and executing good code and choosing the tools with which to do that." True, but there's also a different between what information people use to make decisions and what information they SHOULD use. When Joe Programmer hears "Linus doesn't like CVS." or even "Linux abandoned CVS for something more ABC" he is going to chuck CVS. Now the offtopic: "Elf Sternberg"? Not THE Elf? I think I've read a few of your stories... --- Put Hemos through English 101!
Novell and Caldera are practically neighbors (there are probably people working at Caldera who used to work for Novell, so compatibility is too easy for them). Since even the Novell employees I know don't like to use their products at home, I don't plan on setting up Netware anytime soon, so compatibility isn't an issue. Of the "big four", my guess is that the underdog, TurboLinux, is the one who eventually will shine.
I've been looking at getting a similar 802.11 unit.
At: http://www.ndclan.com/Wireless/wireless.htm they sell 2 Mbps units which cost less (around $200, I believe). But no Linux drivers on the site (yet).
http://www.sohoware.com/Products/CableFREE.htm is another.
My favorite of all (which I will probably buy; only around $150 per unit, 2Mbps) is: http://www.webgear.com/ It's cheapest of all, but has the problem that they have 3 different product lines, 2 of which are 2.4 GHz (but it isn't really clear whether the 2 are compatible with each other). Besides using it to hook up my laptop, I may set up a network with some neighbors so we can share my wireless Internet feed (which is > 1.5 Mbps; very cool, since I can't get DSL where I live). Like the rest, no Linux drivers on the site.
Only one beef about caldera, the HELP account. Opps on caldera's part. But it is good to see IBM helping and building for the linux community. All I want to see is a free (personal and non profit) version of SmartSuite for Linux, and maybe, Just maybe a free version of Notes server for Linux. Just a thought.
So much for everyone going with RedHat (or SuSE). Caldera's versions have always been more appropriate for servers, anyway (though I've never had much luck with their installer; hopefully it works better now). I drive past Caldera's site on a regular basis, so I should be more loyal, but I still prefer Mandrake (it's the one which installs perfectly and uses a crashproof desktop by default).
Actually, licensing had nothing to do with it. AMD has an agreement with Intel not to use the "same technology" for a certain number of years.
What I am hoping is that the K7 has some type of key or can on the outside of the cartridge so that a MB maker can design a MB that can recognize the difference between a K7 and a P2/3 and automatically switch it's voltage, et al.
Ah, I see. There's also a third problem: AFAIK the only way to check if an SMTP server relays is to acually try to relay a piece of mail through it. And good net admins will be logging those attempts. --- Put Hemos through English 101!
Slashdot Mirror
Posted by SmashPHASE:
:)
So if I get it right, web servers with an extreme
payload perform better with NT?
Assuming Slashdot runs Linux, let's go for NT, since it also runs faster on single cpu
configurations, their M6800 (or is it a Z80?) will probably benefit from it...
"Life's a bitch and than you marry one.."
Posted by John Hayward-Warburton:
But! Until the bottleneck (which is being sorted) is reached, the results are identical.
So, for non-thumping applications today, standard Linux is just as good as NT and is FREE (and open). And, soon, when the bottleneck is fixed, it will be equal with the leaders.
In any case, was there a benchmark for "hacker satisfaction"?
Posted by Jeremy Allison - Samba Team:
Good question, but as I wasn't there (I was invited, but declined as I was giving a talk at the Paris Linux Expo) I can only speculate.
I doubt it was the context switches, as in all the tests I've done on NetBench these are down in the noise. In this case it may have been the filesystem as it takes some tricks to ensure you are running with an optimal ext2 setup (and rememver there were NT kernel people there tuning the NTFS setup). But Ingo at RedHat has done quite a bit of work on this so I'm still hopeful for a 2.4. re-test.
Regards,
Jeremy Allison,
Samba Team.
Posted by OrpheusPC:
weird al didnt write either of those songs, the guy used to work for premrad radio, www.premrad.com i dont remember his name, though its in the official weird al FAQ, al didnt sing them either.
Posted by Jeremy Allison - Samba Team:
Actually, this is not the problem. The problem, as has been demonstrated, is the scalability of the Linux TCP stack with multiple processors.
When Samba is run on a Solaris system (which has a highly parallel TCP stack) on an x86 box then Samba beats all of the NT numbers listed for network throughput. The problem on the Solaris box is that the *file system* is poor, as this throughput is only obtained against a tmpfs (ram) disk.
When the Linux TCP stack is parallelized to the same extent Samba on Linux will beat NT in the same way, only the Linux filesystem is much faster, so no tricks such as tmpfs will have to be played.
Regards,
Jeremy Allison,
Samba Team.
Posted by EZ E:
Isn't the whole idea of publishing and producing a document going to need to be overhauled?
Here's a scenario: We all get so interconnected with the convergence of email, voice, networking, chat, web, and whatever else the global data network can put forth that information flow becomes a stream, rather than a granular flow. Where do documents fit in here? Why do we need a document?
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
Why aren't they back-porting that multi-threaded IP bug thing to 2.2?
---
Put Hemos through English 101!
Posted by 2B||!2B:
It's not a degree specifically in game programming that needs to happen. What needs to happen is we need more hands-on experience in a variety of real-life applications while we're in college. Problem: right now too much of the degree is spent on "lib ed" and math and physics, etc., because of the insufficient education we receive before college in the US (unlike Japan, Russia, and many other places where a high school grad probably knows more about math and science than an American knows after finishing a BS degree). There's no time left for what really counts: real projects. I'm finishing the last class of my computer science degree, and wish that I had been given classes teaching COM, CORBA, 3d gaming, and many other similar commercial skills as part of the degree. Everybody finishes with many general skills, but lacking in any specifics unless they have a job on the side. If the first place they end up at is a Win32 shop, they'll eventually learn that, but will still be unfamiliar with many other important skills. If they end up in gaming, they'll be clueless on things like CORBA, so they'll also be stuck. We really need a broader experience in what's out there before we graduate. Even grad school doesn't really provide that.
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
I found the kernel release speculation especially interesting. Next kernel: 3.0. And he's said before that the next kernel should be out in the fall. Woohoo! (yes, I realize the number mean nothing...still...)
---
Put Hemos through English 101!
Posted by wccwcc:
Matthew,
I take your points to be valid, as I wrote this article to target the largest audience and felt necessary to explain things to that some readers might not be familiar with. Those readers are assuredly not slashdot readers. This seemed a better alternative to submitting multiple versions for different audiences.
I also took a meditative tone of voice to bring the issue of operating system and application choice away from an abstract position, to a more personal perspective. As for footnotes, I find them to be annoying[1], but can agree with your position. Personal choice and preference rears its ugly head again.
So I took the risk of explaining too much at the risk of offense.
Charles Wu
1. and distracting.
Posted by cnr1089:
Hey, this is all a little crazy to me. I am going for a dual Major in Computer Science and Computer System's engineering at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. When I first go there, I was like, yah, I am going to learn so much. Well, I will tell you, you learn a lot as a undergrad, but there just isn't enough time. You have to learn to walk, before you can learn to run.
I was pissed when we got into some CS classes, and we were programming little CONSOLE programs. I was like, "why don't we learn Xwindows, or Win32 stuff". Well, I have learned that it is best to nail down the concepts first. If they are offering a degree in Game Programming, these people (unless it is a grad degree, I did't see that specification) aren't going to have a solid foundation in the underlying. I have talked to MANY people who don't truely even understand the concepts of Pointers, because they just usually call a bunch of APIs (win32, etc) and never really learn the concepts.
Posted by twojciaczyk:
...along with the fact that the cable is already live and has modulated signals that will interfere with Ethernet.... it'll never work
Even with the use of a balun to match impedence, you still have the issue of 10base2 termination and distance limitation. On 10base2 you have the 100 meter limitation, with 100base5 you have a 500 meter limitation; All of this and not to mention that your cable must be terminated at all endpoints and must be a bus configuration, and not a star configuration like most cable companies run.
Posted by astro/geek:
I was hopeful about this too, but according to the reports at Office 2000's debut, it writes XML which doesn't conform to spec and includes lots of illegal tags which can only be rendered by (surprise!) MS Office 2000 or IE5. I'd call that "Embrace and Stifle."
Posted by generic kewl tech reference:
I have a question: What would prevent Microsoft from using their current anti-competitive tactics without laws against them?
Unless I totally misunderstand the concept of anarchy as a political system, it seems to me that Microsoft would be free to use bribery, extortion, and intimidation to maintain a dominant market position.
Please explain how anarchy would lead to increased consumer protection. And yes, I know that any increased consumer protection resulting from MS vs. DOJ will be incidental at best.
I do want to keep this polite, so I won't address the comment about sitting in my nice home in front of my expensive computer...
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
First the ontopic:
"...there's a difference between thinking up and executing good code and choosing the tools with which to do that."
True, but there's also a different between what information people use to make decisions and what information they SHOULD use. When Joe Programmer hears "Linus doesn't like CVS." or even "Linux abandoned CVS for something more ABC" he is going to chuck CVS.
Now the offtopic:
"Elf Sternberg"? Not THE Elf? I think I've read a few of your stories...
---
Put Hemos through English 101!
Posted by 2B||!2B:
Novell and Caldera are practically neighbors (there are probably people working at Caldera who used to work for Novell, so compatibility is too easy for them). Since even the Novell employees I know don't like to use their products at home, I don't plan on setting up Netware anytime soon, so compatibility isn't an issue. Of the "big four", my guess is that the underdog, TurboLinux, is the one who eventually will shine.
Posted by 2B||!2B:
I've been looking at getting a similar 802.11 unit.
At: http://www.ndclan.com/Wireless/wireless.htm
they sell 2 Mbps units which cost less (around $200, I believe). But no Linux drivers on the site (yet).
http://www.sohoware.com/Products/CableFREE.htm is another.
My favorite of all (which I will probably buy; only around $150 per unit, 2Mbps) is: http://www.webgear.com/
It's cheapest of all, but has the problem that they have 3 different product lines, 2 of which are 2.4 GHz (but it isn't really clear whether the 2 are compatible with each other). Besides using it to hook up my laptop, I may set up a network with some neighbors so we can share my wireless Internet feed (which is > 1.5 Mbps; very cool, since I can't get DSL where I live). Like the rest, no Linux drivers on the site.
Posted by generic kewl tech reference:
8) Never, Never, NEVER start your defense by pissing off the judge.
Posted by Fatz2001:
Only one beef about caldera, the HELP account. Opps on caldera's part. But it is good to see IBM helping and building for the linux community. All I want to see is a free (personal and non profit) version of SmartSuite for Linux, and maybe, Just maybe a free version of Notes server for Linux. Just a thought.
Slashdot this:
http://www.linuxhaven.com
Posted by 2B||!2B:
So much for everyone going with RedHat (or SuSE). Caldera's versions have always been more appropriate for servers, anyway (though I've never had much luck with their installer; hopefully it works better now). I drive past Caldera's site on a regular basis, so I should be more loyal, but I still prefer Mandrake (it's the one which installs perfectly and uses a crashproof desktop by default).
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
Actually, licensing had nothing to do with it. AMD has an agreement with Intel not to use the "same technology" for a certain number of years.
What I am hoping is that the K7 has some type of key or can on the outside of the cartridge so that a MB maker can design a MB that can recognize the difference between a K7 and a P2/3 and automatically switch it's voltage, et al.
LK
Posted by 2B||!2B:
Still doesn't make clear why Be is licensing out their OS almost for free.
Oh, first post?
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
Except that this time the investigators didn't blow the case by having an anti-computer nazi "find" all of the incriminating evidence.
LK
Posted by DaoniX:
me and my friend can take on and whup 6 Starcraft Broodwar AI's...with an 8 player max, i'd say i'm better than the computer AI.
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
Ah, I see.
There's also a third problem: AFAIK the only way to check if an SMTP server relays is to acually try to relay a piece of mail through it. And good net admins will be logging those attempts.
---
Put Hemos through English 101!