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BeDope clarifies iToaster issue
Sebbo writes "The latest article at BeDope has coverage of the iToaster confusion. It includes a nice photo of Be's VP of Developer Relations, Tim Self, demoing BeOS R4.5's new Death Ray app on the president of Microworkz. " Ya know, it's just good to have this whole thing cleared up. For record, AOL might buy Microworkz, and Microworkz does not run a BeOS/Linux hybrid, but an OS based on the ideas found therein.
Linux is too famous ;) When any1 says "Linux" everybody starts running.
Notice the "foot" icon. I don't mind seeing a few jokes on this site - besides, a big fraction of /. comments are humorous (most of the time intentionally).
I think that the death ray might be more even useful for toast-making that the idea of Linux. Toast your bread without even taking it out of the bag.. (and the bag, and the shelf, and the wall behind that, and the next door neighbors..) Daniel
You can buy BeOS R4.5 online from PC Mall for $53.99 or directly from Be for $69.99.
The audience is the same audience as WebTV addressed and the sam audience that so many other 'net devices' try to address:
The person who wants to be on the 'net and maybe write a few word processing documents, but doesn't care about OSs, computers and all that stuff. This person is hopelessly confused by Windows, doesn't value the thing enough to want to pay for a Mac, and gets headaches just thinking about Linux.
It's a rapidly emerging market. Many of these people are buying shitty WebTV devices right now. Others are realizing how shitty WEbTV is ane buying cheap e-Machines computers. This machine gives them even more of what they want - simply and cheap.
the quality of the article is very low, you should double check before posting crap
Talk about a PUN!
Since when could systems compete in Olympic events? And how scalable are they? Can I get one in the DEC-Athlon range?
Come on, what's wrong with a little fun. I laughed my ass off.
For a while the article had me going.
So, did they take anything else out when they removed your sense of humor?
OR stuff a bigger harddrive in, set up two partitions, and dual-boot. :)
Opera dude...
well, you CAN plug USB, serial, and parallel stuff into it, but BeOS hardware support will basicly limit this to Epson inkjets, HP Lasers, mice, keyboards, and maybe joysticks.
I heard someone say he got Doom to run on the iToaster....
You CAN configure buttons, statusbars, toolbars, etc. in the latest Opera...
Opera also supports more CSS1 than MSIE5 and NS4.6, donno about Mozilla. And Java is supported via a plugin...
Actually I'd expect to see "Blue Boxes" in
Captain Crunch and it's spinoffs, wouldn't
you???
Ahem...
./AnonymousCoward/ass
/Home: cd
/Home/AnonymousCoward/ass: rm stick
And to think the government thought 128-bit crypto was a "munition" - they haven't seen anything yet!
How is that..Geeks of all the people fall prey to these pirates..All of them seems to come from..WA...This was on www.nbcnews.com---->
... and Microworkz." ...
Here is the link...
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/284751.asp
--->
ACCORDING TO COMPANY sources, the top management
team -- the chief operating officer, the chief financial officer, the
chief information officer and the comptroller -- resigned in the
past month. Latman confirmed the departure of CFO Brian
Lofquist, saying he was fired for causing some of Microworkz's
troubles.
Two top managers who departed the company but asked
not to named said they left because of ethical concerns with the
company's business practices -- specifically, the company's
inability to deliver its products as promised and its sluggishness in
refunding consumers.
The company has had well-publicized problems with its
product line. In March, Microworkz.com shook the PC world with
announcement of the $299 Webster Jr. PC -- the deal included
one free year of Net access from Earthlink. But Microworkz now
admits serious production troubles, and when the company
launched the product April 19, it wasn't able to fill many orders
for weeks, in some cases, months.
But despite the problems of fulfilling orders, the company
nonetheless charged its customers' credit cards. Not long after,
the Better Business Bureau of Western Washington and the
Washington State attorney general's office began receiving
complaints; about 100 in all, according to Latman. Janice Marich,
spokesperson for the attorney general's office, said the
complaints included outright failure to deliver PCs, failure to
refund money, and allegations that PCs were shipped with
inferior components.
'This company has
made our radar
screen,'
-- JANICE MARICH
Spokesperson for the attorney
general's office
"This company has made our radar screen," Marich said,
declining to say if an official investigation has been launched into
the company's practices.
The Better Business Bureau has received similar complaints,
and Microworkz "has an unsatisfactory business record," according
to a BBB report. Frustrated consumers also set up a Web site to
air complaints.
"We're only talking about 100 people," Latman said. "That's
not a huge amount." He said problems stemmed from inadequate
computer systems, which caused lag time before refunds could
be sent to consumers. Latman says he has put those problems
behind the company now, claiming PCs now ship within seven
days and all refund request complaints have been cleared up.
AOL in talks to enter PC biz
Microworkz iToaster: a $199 PC
The iToaster is set to launch July 15, and Latman says the
company is geared up to make the boxes on time this time --
with a production line that would be capable of perhaps 150,000
to 200,000 machines a month. A similar statement was included
in the company's April 19 press release about the Webzter: "The
company has the capability to produce 200,000 computers per
month," that release said. The company's well-publicized
problems began after that.
There have been other
sources of confusion,
too -- such as when
the company was
actually founded.
Latman contends things will be different this time around --
the company has said it will only take orders for 10,000 of the
boxes at first to ensure it can fill demand.
Still, some of the iToaster's features seem to be in flux.
Latman told an MSNBC reporter at the PC Expo trade show in
New York earlier this month that the operating system was a
mixture of Linux and BeOS. But he told CNBC on Friday that
objections from the Linux community changed his mind -- the
first iToasters will have Be and a proprietary "front end."
There have been other sources of confusion, too -- such as
when the company was actually founded. Its Web site says
Microworkz was founded in 1991 as an independent custom
software vendor. The company told the Better Business Bureau
it was founded in 1996, and employees tell MSNBC the actual
start date was early 1998. It was incorporated in November of
1998.
On June 6, the company's status as a legal corporation was
dissolved by the Washington Secretary of State's office. The
most likely reason, according to a spokesperson, was failure to file
an annual report.
The consequence: the company can still conduct retail
business, but it cannot conduct any corporate business. The CEO
shrugged it off as a technicality.
"It's a piece of paper that has to be filed once a year. Some
attorneys do it on time. I called the lawyers in and they waved it
off laughingly. They said they do it in November of every year,"
Latman said.
There are other legal troubles for the company as well -- it's
being sued by PC parts supplier Amptron International Inc. for
allegedly failing to pay $41,930 in bills, and bouncing two checks
in December of last year. The suit lashes out personally at
Latman:
"Latman has, and is still, utilizing Microworkz as his alter ego
by so dominating, controlling, and influencing Microworkz's assets
and activities for his own profit, by so failing to satisfy any
corporate formalities such as a proper maintenance of minutes,
director's meetings, etc., by so commingling his personal funds
with Microworkz, and by so failing to establish and/or maintain a
level of capitalization sufficient and/or necessary to conduct
business, as to create a unity of interest and destroy any
separatenesss between Latman
Former employees describe Latman as charismatic, inspiring
Microworkz employees by comparing the company to Dell
Computer Corp. But the former employees all said Latman often
promised more than he could deliver. And despite several
statements from the company that 50,000 Webzter PCs have
been ordered, several former employees contend the company
has received only between 2,000 and 3,000 orders.
There are other troubles for Latman, too. He's being sued
by his co-investors in a Seattle-based porn Web site venture
called Dream Haus Inc. According to the Puget Sound Business
Journal, partners say Latman bounced $22,000 worth of checks,
and created a contest on their site. www.coolchicks.com, with a
grand prize of $50,000 without their consent -- and without
having the money.
This is not the first venture Latman has been involved in
which had trouble delivering merchandise. MSNBC has learned
that 19 small claims judgments were issued against a Beverly Hills
bridal shop run by his wife, Bettina Latman. Richard Latman is
personally cited on half of them. Several of those were initiated
by consumers who complained they left a deposit on a dress, but
never received the gown.
MSNBC research turned up another 26 judgments of one
kind or another against Latman or his wife, including three hefty
tax liens: he owes the IRS $225,000, and $47,000 in California
state taxes.
"I don't doubt that. But what does this have to do with
Microworkz?" Latman said when told of the judgments. He said
the liens still exist because the couple chose not to declare
bankruptcy.
"I wear that failure as a badge," he said, referring to the
failed boutique. "I was involved in counseling her [on the
business]. The reality is the business was poorly planned and
the business failed."
When asked to offer prior technology industry experience,
Latman declined.
Before founding Microworkz "I was going to write software
on a boat," he said. "I have written several dramatic plays. My
goal was to be a writer."
Got a tip about this story? Write to tipoff@msnbc.com
1) the iToaster runs BeOS. Period
2) BeOS is not based on linux or the "_idea_" of linux. Yes is partialy POSIX compliant, and yes it does have some unix style aspects (the shell) and it does ship with gcc. But its not *nix, its not inspired by or based on unix or linux.
3) According to the info filed in connection with Be's upcomming IPO, they plan to provide BeOS for little or no cost to OEMs such as microworkz to gain market share, exposure and hardware support.
$200 products such as the iToaster obviously would not be possible if M$ style lisceneing costs were involved.
Then register with /. and filter out the topics you don't want to read about.
Wayne
I find this to be a good example of reading only what you want to read. The original article clearly said "BeOS/Linux hybrid," yet slashdot incorrectly posted saying it was a Linux-based computer. Then this mistake was pointed out, and slashdot corrected itself. Ironically, it turns out there's no Linux involved at all, so the OS (BeOS) that slashdot ignored from the original press release turns out to be the only one actually used, and the much-ballyhooed role of Linux turns out to be nonexistant.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Incorrect. Opera, since version 3.50 (it's at 3.60 now, IIRC), has supported Java (via a freely available plugin). You can also customize the toolbar, get rid of it entirely, move around/get rid of the box that displays the URL, and mess with other aspects of the UI. As for CSS, I don't think it supports it fully, but it's ahead of both IE5 and Netscape 4.6, so it's the best there is at the moment.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Opera isn't fully CSS1/DOM1 compliant, nor does it support Java (at least, it didn't when I tried it.) Also, it lacks in the customisation of UI field, at which Mozilla excels because of XUL. If Microworkz are using the BeOS backend with a new UI, Mozilla and its customisable UI could fit in very well with that scheme.
So, Mozilla could get a huge number of users in a future incarnation of the iToaster (if it takes off) in fairly short order. A good opportunity, I say.
The point... is that the cheap hardware could be used for a closet-server (network-type stuff which Be doesn't do as well) and the copy of Be could be used on a larger machine better suited to media work -- as stated two messages up.
Posted by 2B||!2B:
Still doesn't make clear why Be is licensing out their OS almost for free.
Oh, first post?
Of course, there was nothing illegal about Microsoft's use of satellite-bourne death rays to vaporise the headquarters of other high-tech firms: it was simply competing vigorously within the law.
--
Employ me! Unix,Linux,crypto/security,Perl,C/C++,distance work. Edinburgh UK.
Xenu loves you!
Upgrade = buy new parts, throw away old ones that you can't use. It doesn't matter who's doing the throwing away.
-- Too lazy to get a lower UID.
As I see some of the recent "computer" offerings like the Webzter and iToaster, I can't help but remember something the fortune program spits out on occasion...
...PCs will come with your breakfast cereal, you'll throw them away because your house will be littered with them...
I haven't quoted it exactly, nor do I know who to attribute it to (and I'm too lazy to check at the moment)... but the fellow seems to be right.
"Flame away, I wear asbestos underwear"
Out of curiousity, how much does BeOS usually cost?
It seems that unless BeOS is pretty cheap, it would be worth paying the extra $100 or so to get a (admittedly cheap) PC on top of it! I wonder if you can take Be off it, install it on a more robust machine, and stick Linux on the iToaster to use as a firewall or gateway machine...
Maybe $200 products wouldn't be possible, but Microworkz did just do a $299 deal that did include Win98. I picked one up because it also came with a year of free dialup from Earthlink (my existing dialup ISP). That basically made it a $50 PC to play with. That's got to make the margins MUCH leaner than the one's they can get with the iToaster.
The Webzter (the PC I picked up from them) wasn't exactly a screamer, but Cyrix 300, 32/3.2/56K, etc. isn't bad. Of course it wasn't such a good deal if you needed to order the CD-ROM and floppy drive from them, but I had a couple of each lying around.
The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
Um, yea. Maybe you should read a little about an OS before you say something. There are already very nice icq clones out for Be. In fact two projects recently merged into one for further advancement. Secondly, winamp quite simply is not that great of an mp3 player. sure it has pretty skins and it can play the files but soundplay for Be is a much nicer player. Go over to BeWare for a lot the nifty software available for Be.
That might speed up World Dominaton(tm) by a little bit, don't you think?
~luge
IAAL,BIANLY
...if BeOS is selling cheaply enough to be in a $199 computer, more power to them - I hope they can mak $ on it because BeOS is the shite. I'm sure the "hybrid" stuff came from some marketweenie who saw that a tool or two was ported or something and knew that "Linux is hot", so they found a way to get the buzzword in.
On the other hand, I WANT ONE OF THOSE DEATH RAYS!
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
the other thing is that a webtv doesn't come with an easy to use office suite like this one.
---
People get the internet and what amounts to brand name, popular apps that they are familiar with. And AOL gets in the door and in this case on the set-top. Just some thoughts.
No. This is still wrong. The is no hybrid, there is no "based on ideas from", it's BeOS, pure and simple. There is no Linux involved, period.
Just one week after the last award for players in the October embedded contest, the battle rages on. BeOS gets the point after the rumor of talks between Microworkz.com and AOL. It may happens that AOL will distribute this device for free in exchange to online subscription fees. The small iToaster can take this new market by storm. What else to say... Do you know that BeOS is written on C++?
Andrew
"Microworkz does not run a BeOS/Linux hybrid, but an OS based on the ideas found therein."
Huh?
a) What does 'based on the ideas found therein' actually mean?
b) Where does this 'Clarification' come from? I've not seen any other articles which have any new definite information in them about the OS...
Major strengths: It's outstandingly smooth. It runs fast even on outdated hardware. The user interface is very slick and easy to learn and use. Applications are easy to write, so there are a surprisingly large number of them, and they tend to be innovative instead of copies of other apps. The typical Linux graphical application is StarOffice, a precise clone of MS Office. The typical Be application is Be Productive, which is sleekly designed, fast and highly individualistic. I've done a few long documents in it and like it a lot.
Be has many features based on digital media, thus the "Media OS" tagline. Unfortunately, the lack of FireWire support makes it all but useless for video editing. There are, however, some excellent audio applications available, and the upcoming video editing applications look like they could blow away anything on any other platform. FireWire is "coming soon".
Disadvantages: No Microsoft Office, Netscape or Internet Explorer. The web browser, called NetPositive, is very sleek and fast (are you noticing a pattern here?) but it won't do all the things "normal" web browsers do. Mozilla and Opera are coming; hopefully they will solve this problem.
Hardware support is still a problem; it's finicky about the type of computer it will run on.
Investment-wise, I'm not sure how much I would bet on it. It's run through a lot of money without getting much in the way of revenues. However, it's acquired a very loyal customer base, and I think Microsoft is vunerable in the media space because people doing digital video editing want (i) something that works - virtually nothing on Windows does and (ii) something that's fast. If video really is the next big thing in computing, it could be big.
I'm not sure if I'd place a bet for it against Microsoft because the giant could crush it pretty easily. But I wouldn't bet against it either, for it's a truly outstanding product. Hardware support is the main problem; check the Be newsgroups and it's the only significant complaint against the OS.
Finally, I must confess that Jean-Louis Gassee has won me over. His gallic charm is something to behold, and he even answers his own email. Be's attitude mirrors its chairman's, with numerous "good guy" policies. For instance, the new R4.5 update was sent out free to all registered users of the previous version. Try asking Red Hat or SuSE to do that!
I wouldn't invest my life savings in the company, but as a bit of a flutter, I might put a bit in and see how it did. But I'd definitely invest in the software - I have, and I don't regret doing it.
D
----
I don't think so. More likely, this will hasten the day when we see a "desktop" version of WinCE. Perhaps a Cassiopeia in a bigger box, modem built in, and a flexible video output (monitor/TV). This isn't a shot across the bow of Microsoft's desktop OS group -- it's a shot across the bow of WebTV, and that's about it.
lake effect weblog
{Network engineer in Chicago--looking for work!}
See, AOL is gonna use small cheap computers to dethrone us!
Chimps. I say dip the demons of Redmond in Gravy Train and feed 'em all to a pack of crazed poodles...
Chris
So Buddha walks into a pizza parlor and says: "Hey, make me one with everything."
Let's see. Since it runs BeOS, the apps written for it are/will be extremely small, and won't take long to download directly to the machine. I think (i could be wrong.. it happens) this thing has USB. What's so hard about hooking up an external drive to this and installing apps, Linux, or whatever else on this thing?
It's not really geared to the tech-heads, or to people looking for a "computer". It's an "internet appliance" and should be looked at as such. If you want a cheap machine that you can configure to your heart's content, there are other alternatives. This thing is geared to the moms and dads and grandparents who just want something to get e-mail with, maybe something to write a letter on (if it has USB, you can hook up a printer to it) check out websites. Basically those same (type of) people who bought WebTVs, but would like the ability to actually run some other software as well. Maybe this will bridge the gap between WebTV and "real computers" for a lot of people.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I run BeOS. The rules don't apply.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I run BeOS. The rules don't apply.
Finally, some clarity. I e-mailed the CEO, Rick Latman and received a nice response. The hybrid OS stuff being reported is, as we suspected, incorrect. He said that they had originally planned on adding a "Linux panel", but those plans were cancelled.
"iToaster is a BeOS backend with a customized gui."
With regard to third party development opportunities, he said they will exist. He did warn me that "this is not BeOS as you know it. It is a very specialized version." Hmm.
Interesting tidbit to those of you looking for a BeOS programming job - he said "we are hiring Be programmers as fast as we can find them."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I run BeOS. The rules don't apply.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I run BeOS. The rules don't apply.
i'd rather have a deathray than linux on a little computer anyway
my other penis is a vagina
"As to whether the company plans to go public, Latman declined to comment. But one can only speculate, given that the company recently changed its name from Microworkz Computer Corp. to Microworkz.com"
Story is here
Hmm... Any other potential "converts"?
The only reason all cover-ups appear to fail is that you never hear about the ones that succeed.
It seems like a better product than WebTV. Alot of WebTV users are complaining that they can't run Java apps or RealAudio content. This machine may have a better chance at doing that. If this machine can capture as much market share as WebTV (1 to 2 million, I believe) then it could help BeOS to get a lot more Internet apps developed.
Now, don't get me wrong, I'm as pro-choice as the next guy when it comes to putting an OS on your machine (running RH5.1 at home, m'self). But a question - who exactly is the audience for this thing? No external drive, so you can't buy software off the shelf. And this thing comes with a 56k modem....meaning I have to tell my dad that if he wants WordPerfect, he needs to download it, please come back in 6 hours? And how clearly does their advertising explain that there's no monitor on the thing? Not to mention it's a sealed box. I mean, my dad might not be the biggest computer user in the world, but he knows enough to ask me how to help him upgrade his memory and his disk capacity. If I told him he can get a machine for $199 that he can't ever upgrade, he'd tell me to forget it. Just trying to figure out the point of this machine, and I hope it's not to dupe a whole bunch of paranoid customers into offering the cheapest machine they can get away with. This seems to be the antithesis to the Gateway leasing argument of "If you're afraid the machine will become obsolete, you can join this program and we'll upgrade it for you." The Microworkz spin seems to be "The machine will get obsolete fast, but you didn't pay much for it, so just throw it away and get a new one." Duane P.S. - I love that "I don't care what Microsoft thinks" line. Where was this guy 3 years ago when MS was buildings its monopoly in the first place?
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
there's GOTTA be a way that this thing can be programmed to make some kick-ass toast. after all it does use the _ideas_ of linux.
The last paragraph of the article mentions that Microsoft is now no longer the only OS maker with a death ray. Further explanation of that remark can be found in the second article here.
No... YOU ask them. I'm afraid to.
:)
(Maybe we could call it the GNU Public Laser)
Save the whales. Feed the hungry. Free the mallocs.
Is it just me, or did any one else think of professor John Frink presenting his death ray to Grampa Simpson here:
Oh, I never thought of that ... the death ray has only evil uses...
Back to the real world ... Heavens to marketroid! it just goes to show that people who report on IT should have a freakin' clue about what they're talking about. Those original reports about a "hybrid" OS should never have been filed because the dopes that wrote them should have called whoever made the announcement on it. Not that the death ray shouldn't have been used on the guy who made the announcement too. But reporters have really got to learn to ask the right questions, it's their job, d*&&^% it.
Uhh, Linux not Windows ... this OS not Windows ... this OS must be Linux, right?
"Oh, I hope he doesn't give us halyatchkies," said Heinrich.
I'm not particularly familiar with the BeOS. What are its major strengths and weaknesses (as reported by users, of course, not by the company itself). Is it worth investing in? I'm always interested in trying out new toys, and so far I've only heard good things.
I've had this sig for three days.
Be had a nifty booth at PC Expo, with the iToaster and a Microworkz rep tucked away in a corner. After asking a few questions about why they're not porting BeOS on to the G3 (official answer: "Because Apple won't play nice."), the giddy rep pointed me to the new iToaster. It's about the size of a VCR circa '86, and about as heavy. It does allow for printers/scanners/etc via serial and USB ports, and comes with word processing software.
As for that whole "Linux/BeOS" shenanigan.. After the Be rep checked my entrance badge to make sure I wasn't a part of the press, I was told that the mentioning of Linux was to raise the level of interest, a PR move devised supposedly by the Prez of Be.
I think that it's an excellent box for those who can't afford a real computer, but that may change as the price of a box & monitor drop. But at the moment, with the price being almost as low as my Playstation (and with an equally low intimidation factor), Be should stand a very good chance of gaining market share, especially with the release date timed well enough for the holidays. (October or November, if I remember correctly) They also intend to make a "kids iToaster", which from what I understood, consisted mostly of changing the icons available on the startup screen.
Now if only the people Linux Pavilion at PC Expo had been as friendly... but that's another story.
ai
"...and the stains on my boots say my life is going well." -Ruby
So how long before we can get a Linux port of the DeathRay App?
Let's see what happens when you try to make internet appliances based off of linux for the average joe. I can see a little kid running in crying about how he/she just accidentally shut down the x-server and is now running in cli mode. BeOS is much better for the average joe. It is like the universal MacOS except built much, much better for next generation hardware and software concepts.
---Got Coffee?---
It comes with gobe productive 1.1.1 and net positive which are great for newbies because they are tiny, really fast and offer only the features that the average joe will want. 90% of the features in office 97/00 are BS anyway and cost you $400 more than gobe productive which is a really sweet suite and costs $80-$150 depending on how you get it. This is the beginning of the end for megalosoft. Once BeOS gets about 500,000-1,000,000 average joes using it, all hell will break loose in redmond. Because that is when Be will be marching on the microsoft compound with most of M$'s former supporters behind it.
---Got Coffee?---
Way to go, Be! A stroke of luck for them, don't you think? Out of all the bundling deals that they've managed to secure (all four of them), this one has the most promise by far. If the iToaster takes off (which it has the potential to do), the BeOS will assuredly get a bit of the limelight. Their operating system will be portrayed as light, quick, and $-cheap. Which it is. But the next question in consumers' minds will be - 'What could it do on my Tri-Athlon box?'.
Be has to license their software as cheaply as they can, or else they're not going to get any market share. We all have to hope that they won't jack up the price later.
Wah!
The iToaster will output to your TV, apparently.
Wah!
And it ROCKS!!
Statement from Microworkz' CEO and photos: http://www.benews.com/story/?ID=1467&comment_style =boxed
Doesn't anyone remember back in February when Jean-Louis Gassee dared OEMS to preload Be and Linux in defiance of Microsoft??? He said he would give BeOS FREE to OEMs willing to preload it. Check: http://www.zdnet.com/pcweek/stories/news/0,4153,10 13959,00.html