Perhaps one reason why geekdom responds so positively- is that we can actually build it. The Matrix I mean. If there was ever a project to take mankind to the moon again- it would take that level of effort and commitment but it could be done.
I have been using mandrake 5.2 and 5.3 since they came out, and love them. Almost to easy to setup now and the dev for the KDE has come along way almost as good as Afterstep. anyway i had to throw my two cents in.
BTW, I accidentally deleted my redhat iso before I burned it, anybody know where I can get that iso? or is there a site that will provide links to linux isos?
Slow. Buggy. Ugly. You must be playing devil's advocate, because you are the only person I have ever heard make such statements about Java
This is the first time you've heard someone critique Java's speed? You can't be serious.
IBM is only one of many players in the Java world. They rightly recognized that providing easy front-end access to their big iron was the best way to maintain and possibly grow the sales of mainframes and large AIX systems.
Don't you remember SNA? IBM has been down this road before - with predictable results.
Sun has not refused to open up Java.
I think some people at ISO would disagree with this statement.
US Senate Website Hacked Thursday, May 27, 1999 at 19:42:37 The hacker "counter strike" continues, as the the official website of the United States Senate is defaced.
For their link click here. Although it may not work... hmmm....
Even the *JAVA WEBSERVER* can handle more concurrent connections than Apache,
Apache serves 43% of the content on the web; Sun just killed the Java Web Server. I have no doubt that Apache would destroy the Java Web Server in real world tests. In fact, I would bet my house on it without even testing it myself first.
C++ falls flat on its face for server-side programming.
"Servers" written in C/C++: unix, oracle, apache
"Servers" written in Java:-------
Your point was nearly silly, but I thought I would reply anyway.
No one is going to seriously challenge traditional C/C++ office applications
Corel tried. The resulting apps sucked!!!!. That's why C/C++ is used for real apps. Oh, I guess you'll reply that all the Corel programmers were stooges and you could have done much better.
Which is why 99.9% of all CGIs are written in ASP, Cold Fusion, Perl,Python, Java, TCL, or PHP, and *NOT* C/C++
Revise that - 99% of all CGI's are written in perl. Java occupies maybe 0.001% of the CGI market.
The fact of the matter is, for the forseeable future, server-side languages are going to be high level 4GLs and VM based languages, NOT C++.
Looks like Oracle and Apache better start recoding!
Wow, Gosling and McNealy really have got you suckered.
There is one Program writtn in java for for the win platform: www.netzero.com and it's buggy as hell. They say they are going to release the Mac version in 6 months. What kind of cross-platform is this? Someone has insightful info?
Say, I was one of the people to help fund getting www.linuxhq.org (it's a webpage for our linux help channel.) Since I don't think they use it for anything productive maybe the former owners of linuxhq.com might pay big bucks for it?
... my money would still be on it being impossible (Due to killed grandfather paradox, lots of bad episodes of star trek, etc).....
That's why I like Dragon Ball so much (One of the greatest japanese manga even written in the golden age (80's-early 90's)) Its explaination is that everytime you use the time machine, you "create" an alternate universe which has the same "you" and same grand dad with the same names, except that the grand dad you save ain't the grandpa who was killed in "your" universe.
James Cameron's original ternimater 2 script has the same alternative universes idea which had old linda hamulton sitting on the park watching children playing game happily ever after (remember the park?) Unfortunately it was replaced by the heroic/cheesy/simpler suicide scene.
You may have heard of the CDA. It is a form of net censorship, which was law in the US until it was declared unconstitutional. A modified version of the CDA may soon become law. To help prevent this, I am trying to get 1,000,000 "vitrual signatures." Please sign your real name at the bottom of this list [reply to this message] if you support not regulating the internet in the US.
Note: this does not include such things as HTML tags with violence/sex/etc ratings, or copywright violations, or child pornography. "Regulation" refers to making the storing/downloading of meterial legal in book, video, audio, or spoken form illegal.
Once finals are over I will try to set up a decent web site for this list.
Thank you for your time.
Virtual signature #1:
Jesse Duke, 13554 Chaparral Tr. Yucaipa, CA, USA. b92399@yahoo.com.
The answer is simple -- performance. While attempting to migrate from Windows to Linux I searched for a good cross-platform IDE. I must have tried at least ten Java IDE/text editors and none lived up to the performance and functionality of there native counter parts. Java is a fabulous language but it is not a silver bullet. Productivity can not be sacrificed for convenience.
I'm sorry folks, but I have to say that after building apps in Java since the v0.9xxx days, the dream is over. Java is a failure.
Let's start with the only reason Java was invented - to kill Microsoft. That didn't happen - Microsoft co-opted it and "extended" it. I use the quotes to indicate that they killed it. I have to hand it to Microsoft, they did an ace job butchering the platform...although it didn't take much work - Java demonstrates that VMs are still a dumb idea in 1999.
Let's talk about the companies involved:
Sun has dug its own grave by refusing to open Java up. Even veteren Sun-lovers decry the closed path Sun has pursued.
HP has fractured Java and decided to go its own way with Chai. Its only a matte of time before they are incompatble even at the most simple level.
IBM has played the hero, but they'll soon give it up when they realize they don't need Java to fight Microsoft anymore.
Red Hat, et al: Linux and open source software are the new silver bullets against Microsoft. Mindshare and good press follow it everywhere, which is more than you can say for Java.
O'Reilly and Associates: the only company to show a profit for products associated with Java, which is a testament to the hype machine Sun built.
As for the technology....
Slow. Buggy. Ugly. These are but some of the words experienced Java developers (me included) have to say about it. And forget about applets. They're a great way to kill a great web site.
As for the server side, for the love of pete, just use C or C++. At a stretch use perl. All of these languages are more mature and are better supported in my opnion. perl is easier to code, and C is faster and will be faster for the forseeable future.
But all of this is irrelevant now that NOISE (Netscape, Oracle, IBM, Sun, Everyone but Microsoft) have better ways to fight Microsoft, like linux or the Supreme Court.
If you want really nice performance under most platforms, take a look at the HotSpot JIT compiler
Actually, HotSpot has only been released for Windows and there is a release candidate for Solaris SPARC. Though no one has seen the source it is supposedly quite portable. So, it remains to be seen if HotSpot will be available on "most platforms".
As for Linux, from what I've heard on the Blackdown mailing list Sun has yet to say anything about licensing the source to them so that there could be a port to Linux. And there is a very slime chance that Sun would do the port themselves.
most of the time, you can fix this by editing the init scripts, but I can't give you the speciffics without knowing your distro. On my system which is roughly based on 5MB of Slackware 3.5, I had to edit the init scripts to enable power off for the new kernels.
I'm not getting your cryptic reference. Who is "a prominent Australian Linux guru"? -- "Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Haha, listen to the ant-QT mafia finding excuses. Of course it is NOT legal to link GPL applications to NPL or QPL licenced libraries/widgets! At least if you believe the anti-KDE stories circulating.
Of course nobody will care because it's open source after all and GPL isn't sacred.
So because of some special circumstances in the apartment building where you lived, you generalized to ALL phone calls by EVERYONE.
We are talking about organized, worldwide, detailed espionage, you are talking about "I happened to overhear someone say". -- "Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Slashdot Mirror
Posted by d106ene5:
Apache/Oracle/etc is not server side programming. Server side programming deals with dynamic web pages.
wtf? the term "client/server" predates the web.
oracle is certainly a "server".
wow, you are new.
Posted by d106ene5:
As soon as they present terms to Sun, and Sun ditches on them, they'll be singing the same tune as ISO.
Posted by spidermind:
Perhaps one reason why geekdom responds so positively- is that we can actually build it. The Matrix I mean. If there was ever a project to take mankind to the moon again- it would take that level of effort and commitment but it could be done.
Posted by Hav{}k:
I have been using mandrake 5.2 and 5.3 since they came out, and love them. Almost to easy to setup now and the dev for the KDE has come along way almost as good as Afterstep. anyway i had to throw my two cents in.
Enjoy
" Long Live lynx "
Posted by _DogShu_:
got an URL that doesn't require a password?
BTW, I accidentally deleted my redhat iso before I burned it, anybody know where I can get that iso? or is there a site that will provide links to linux isos?
Posted by d106ene5:
Slow. Buggy. Ugly. You must be playing devil's advocate, because you are the only person I have ever heard make such statements about Java
This is the first time you've heard someone critique Java's speed? You can't be serious.
IBM is only one of many players in the Java world. They rightly recognized that providing easy front-end access to their big iron was the best way to maintain and possibly grow the sales of mainframes and large AIX systems.
Don't you remember SNA? IBM has been down this road before - with predictable results.
Sun has not refused to open up Java.
I think some people at ISO would disagree with this statement.
Posted by neurotus:
yep. zdnn got the story.
antionline sent me this:
US Senate Website Hacked Thursday, May 27, 1999 at 19:42:37
The hacker "counter strike" continues, as the the official website of the United States Senate is defaced.
For their link click here. Although it may not work... hmmm....
Posted by d106ene5:
IBM is famous for "committing" to technologies and then dropping them the moment they no longer suit the IBM crusade.
Exameples?
OpenDOC
Taligent
Kalieda
Microchannel
OS/2
and many more lie in the IBM graveyard of "almost" technologies that were once trumpeted as the next big thing.
Posted by Lord Kano-The Gangster Of Love:
The following two quotes are given in reverse order to make a point.
>>I think perhaps your hypocrasy is showing.
>>I don't think he missed the point of the Hellmouth series. He just didn't think the series missed the _real_ point.
Perhaps a your poor grammar is showing.
>>Just because his view is different from yours, you start calling him names.
That's usually why name calling starts after you leave High School. People aren't geeks, dorks et al, just dickheads and arseholes. Take your pick.
>>Looks like you're being a "dickhead" by pushing him over the limit.
Over the limit into what? Dickheadity? Or would that be dickheaddom?
LK
Posted by d106ene5:
So who's using them?
Posted by d106ene5:
,Python, Java, TCL, or PHP, and *NOT* C/C++
Even the *JAVA WEBSERVER* can handle more concurrent connections than Apache,
Apache serves 43% of the content on the web; Sun just killed the Java Web Server. I have no doubt that Apache would destroy the Java Web Server in real world tests. In fact, I would bet my house on it without even testing it myself first.
C++ falls flat on its face for server-side programming.
"Servers" written in C/C++: unix, oracle, apache
"Servers" written in Java:-------
Your point was nearly silly, but I thought I would reply anyway.
No one is going to seriously challenge traditional C/C++ office applications
Corel tried. The resulting apps sucked!!!!. That's why C/C++ is used for real apps. Oh, I guess you'll reply that all the Corel programmers were stooges and you could have done much better.
Which is why 99.9% of all CGIs are written in ASP, Cold Fusion, Perl
Revise that - 99% of all CGI's are written in perl. Java occupies maybe 0.001% of the CGI market.
The fact of the matter is, for the forseeable future, server-side languages are going to be high level 4GLs and VM based languages, NOT C++.
Looks like Oracle and Apache better start recoding!
Wow, Gosling and McNealy really have got you suckered.
Posted by My_Favorite_Anonymous_Coward:
There is one Program writtn in java for for the win platform: www.netzero.com and it's buggy as hell. They say they are going to release the Mac version in 6 months. What kind of cross-platform is this? Someone has insightful info?
Posted by heaven is falling:
Say, I was one of the people to help fund getting www.linuxhq.org (it's a webpage for our linux help channel.) Since I don't think they use it for anything productive maybe the former owners of linuxhq.com might pay big bucks for it?
Posted by My_Favorite_Anonymous_Coward:
... my money would still be on it being impossible (Due to killed grandfather paradox, lots of bad episodes of star trek, etc).....
That's why I like Dragon Ball so much (One of the greatest japanese manga even written in the golden age (80's-early 90's)) Its explaination is that everytime you use the time machine, you "create" an alternate universe which has the same "you" and same grand dad with the same names, except that the grand dad you save ain't the grandpa who was killed in "your" universe.
James Cameron's original ternimater 2 script has the same alternative universes idea which had old linda hamulton sitting on the park watching children playing game happily ever after (remember the park?) Unfortunately it was replaced by the heroic/cheesy/simpler suicide scene.
Posted by Jesse Duke, CA, USA:
You may have heard of the CDA. It is a form of net censorship, which was law in the US until it was declared unconstitutional. A modified version of the CDA may soon become law. To help prevent this, I am trying to get 1,000,000 "vitrual signatures." Please sign your real name at the bottom of this list [reply to this message] if you support not regulating the internet in the US.
Note: this does not include such things as HTML tags with violence/sex/etc ratings, or copywright violations, or child pornography. "Regulation" refers to making the storing/downloading of meterial legal in book, video, audio, or spoken form illegal.
Once finals are over I will try to set up a decent web site for this list.
Thank you for your time.
Virtual signature #1:
Jesse Duke,
13554 Chaparral Tr.
Yucaipa, CA, USA.
b92399@yahoo.com.
Posted by kenmcneil:
The answer is simple -- performance. While attempting to migrate from Windows to Linux I searched for a good cross-platform IDE. I must have tried at least ten Java IDE/text editors and none lived up to the performance and functionality of there native counter parts. Java is a fabulous language but it is not a silver bullet. Productivity can not be sacrificed for convenience.
Posted by d106ene5:
I'm sorry folks, but I have to say that after building apps in Java since the v0.9xxx days, the dream is over. Java is a failure.
Let's start with the only reason Java was invented - to kill Microsoft. That didn't happen - Microsoft co-opted it and "extended" it. I use the quotes to indicate that they killed it. I have to hand it to Microsoft, they did an ace job butchering the platform...although it didn't take much work - Java demonstrates that VMs are still a dumb idea in 1999.
Let's talk about the companies involved:
Sun has dug its own grave by refusing to open Java up. Even veteren Sun-lovers decry the closed path Sun has pursued.
HP has fractured Java and decided to go its own way with Chai. Its only a matte of time before they are incompatble even at the most simple level.
IBM has played the hero, but they'll soon give it up when they realize they don't need Java to fight Microsoft anymore.
Red Hat, et al: Linux and open source software are the new silver bullets against Microsoft. Mindshare and good press follow it everywhere, which is more than you can say for Java.
O'Reilly and Associates: the only company to show a profit for products associated with Java, which is a testament to the hype machine Sun built.
As for the technology....
Slow. Buggy. Ugly. These are but some of the words experienced Java developers (me included) have to say about it. And forget about applets. They're a great way to kill a great web site.
As for the server side, for the love of pete, just use C or C++. At a stretch use perl. All of these languages are more mature and are better supported in my opnion. perl is easier to code, and C is faster and will be faster for the forseeable future.
But all of this is irrelevant now that NOISE (Netscape, Oracle, IBM, Sun, Everyone but Microsoft) have better ways to fight Microsoft, like linux or the Supreme Court.
If you want really nice performance under most platforms, take a look at the HotSpot JIT compiler
Actually, HotSpot has only been released for Windows and there is a release candidate for Solaris SPARC. Though no one has seen the source it is supposedly quite portable. So, it remains to be seen if HotSpot will be available on "most platforms".
As for Linux, from what I've heard on the Blackdown mailing list Sun has yet to say anything about licensing the source to them so that there could be a port to Linux. And there is a very slime chance that Sun would do the port themselves.
Posted by oNZeNeMo (guns'n ammo):
most of the time, you can fix this by editing the init scripts, but I can't give you the speciffics without knowing your distro. On my system which is roughly based on 5MB of Slackware 3.5, I had to edit the init scripts to enable power off for the new kernels.
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
I'm not getting your cryptic reference. Who is "a prominent Australian Linux guru"?
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by Moritz Moeller - Herrmann:
Haha, listen to the ant-QT mafia finding excuses.
Of course it is NOT legal to link GPL applications to NPL or QPL licenced libraries/widgets! At least if you believe the anti-KDE stories circulating.
Of course nobody will care because it's open source after all and GPL isn't sacred.
Posted by Albert Einstein:
I have no interest in Star Wars or Leo di Caprio,
and I'm disappointed to find this stuff on Slashdot.
Posted by FascDot Killed My Previous Use:
So because of some special circumstances in the apartment building where you lived, you generalized to ALL phone calls by EVERYONE.
We are talking about organized, worldwide, detailed espionage, you are talking about "I happened to overhear someone say".
--
"Please remember that how you say something is often more important than what you say." - Rob Malda
Posted by Jester Hat:
heh, now that was funny!