This is probably true enough, however, you are leaving out an essential fifth step:
5. Keep prices high enough for long enough to cover the cost of steps #2 and #3.
Because, you see, once you've done step #4, you give competitors a reason to enter the market. Then you have to go back to steps #2 and #3 again, further pushing into the future the completion of step #5, which is the only one which can justify all the other steps.
Show me an example of all five steps happening, and I'll believe your assertion that this is actually a problem. -russ
This is indeed a classic example, but... it's not clear that the price-cutting needed to keep competitors out is ever allowed (by consumers) to stop. -russ
It only takes $500 to open a scottrade account, and they only charge $7 per trade. Go short on SPY (since it's going down), and when it heads back up, go long on it. You'll be able to make a good 26%/year that way. -russ
Okay, so if I can pick up a TiVo for a couple of hundred bucks, how much is a MythTV box? You need a fast pentium box with a large HD, right? Plus a video encoder. What's the cheapest MythTV box that I could put together that competes with a base TiVo? -russ
This is a necessary term. The problem is that for a very long time, TLC (The Lego Corporation) did not see any market for adult products. They thought they were making toys for kids. We taught them a lesson when they sold MANY more RIS (Robotics Invention System) kits than their marketers told them that kids would buy. They would have been happy enough selling to schools. Instead, all of AFOLs bought them, and their eyes were opened.
R0ML points me to these two parts of the law: http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/f airpay/fs17e_computer.htm, which says that if IT workers getting paid at least $455/week or $27.63 an hour don't get overtime. Sorry, I was wrong about the minimum amount. You still fall under minimum wage laws, for what that's worth.
Also, you can't volunteer for a for-profit private sector company: http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/docs/volunteers. asp -russ
Not really. The GNU tools were not the only tools. There was PCC, for example. It was the case that Linux was developed using GNU tools, but is not the case that Linux could only have been developed using GNU tools.
And the difference between Linux and the Hurd is that the Hurd has no users and no future. -russ
Well, I have to say that if the only message you get from Open Source is the development model, then we've done you a disservice. Freedom is an important component of Open Source. It's just not the only component. -russ
What the HELL are you talking about????? EVERY scientist KNOWS that the globe is WARMING! Only ThE K00KS ThInK ThAt ThEY ARE WroNG!!! -russ p.s. historically, you are correct. Of course, we never learn from history.
Where I live, Potsdam, NY. The only bad thing we have here is snow and ice... and that's of minimal risk since you can prepare for it at a very reasonable cost. -russ
Uh, it was the Linux kernel which prompted Eric to write The Cathedral and the Bazaar. It wasn't the GNU Herd, which I think about five guys out in some cowtown or beantown or something are running. -russ
When a lot of slashdotters talk about Open Source they're really talking about the freedoms that the Free Software philosophies have given them. Look around at the stories and comments and keep in mind what both movments really are, you'll be quite amazed.
Exactly! Open Source has successfully transmitted the ideas of Free Software, whereas the approach that the Free Software Foundation attempted to use for 15 years, making very little progress, failed (I say that they failed even at the same time I admit that they converted me.) Hammering a message down people's throats only succeeds if the people are ready for the message. RMS had some success at that, so he believes that hammering is good. At least, the last time he and I had it out, he was firmly convinced that he was succeeding and that if we would only shut up about Open Source, he would be even more of a success. -russ
That's exactly why we don't fight against RMS. Open Source is the friendly and accepting camp, with no moralizing, just high quality, professionally written free software. If you don't want to use Open Source, you're not an immoral person.
RMS would like us to fight him, because that would draw attention to his philosophy, but we just won't do it. -russ
I'll freely admit that the name seems to have been chosen on the spur of the moment. It's too descriptive and not unique enough. However, many many people now accept that "Open Source" means what we say it means.
I encourage people to say "Source Available" software if you can get the source code but you might not be able to modify or redistribute it. -russ
That's why we have the OSI Certified(tm) mark. You can call your software anything you want, but unless it's freely copyable and source is available, it's not OSI Certified Open Source software. -russ
Software which is not free software will never be Open Source in the sense that OSI will never let it use the OSI Approved(tm) certification mark. -russ p.s. as they say "Over my dead body."
Freedom is in fact very important to OSI. OSI was created precisely because Stallman was not succeeding in selling the freedom philosophy. You see, he has been infected by Chomsky's ideas that language controls thoughts. In this system, you cannot think about ideas unless you can verbalize them. Understandably, it takes a PhD and a lot of left-brain thinking to be able to believe this. Me, I never have. So, as VP of OSI, I just promote freedom in the most effective way that I can. I'll leave the cheerleading for the word "freedom" to RMS, while I promote the reality of freedom to people who would never listen to a hairy hippie. -russ
Does anybody know of a music file server for the WMLS other than twonkyvision-musicserver? It "works" but the combination of it and the WMLS are not terribly reliable. -russ
And the user interface is crap. If you point to a folder and press play, it only plays the first tune in the folder. DOH! Software should always do the obvious thing that you ask it to do. -russ
Slashdot Mirror
This is probably true enough, however, you are leaving out an essential fifth step:
5. Keep prices high enough for long enough to cover the cost of steps #2 and #3.
Because, you see, once you've done step #4, you give competitors a reason to enter the market. Then you have to go back to steps #2 and #3 again, further pushing into the future the completion of step #5, which is the only one which can justify all the other steps.
Show me an example of all five steps happening, and I'll believe your assertion that this is actually a problem.
-russ
This is indeed a classic example, but ... it's not clear that the price-cutting needed to keep competitors out is ever allowed (by consumers) to stop.
-russ
Ya gotta watch out for them scottish quilts.
-russ
It only takes $500 to open a scottrade account, and they only charge $7 per trade. Go short on SPY (since it's going down), and when it heads back up, go long on it. You'll be able to make a good 26%/year that way.
-russ
Okay, so if I can pick up a TiVo for a couple of hundred bucks, how much is a MythTV box? You need a fast pentium box with a large HD, right? Plus a video encoder. What's the cheapest MythTV box that I could put together that competes with a base TiVo?
-russ
because usually there is quite a bit of value added.
Who paid them to add this value?
-russ
that software is cheap. Check out Thuban. Runs on Windows, Mac and Linux.
-russ
This is a necessary term. The problem is that for a very long time, TLC (The Lego Corporation) did not see any market for adult products. They thought they were making toys for kids. We taught them a lesson when they sold MANY more RIS (Robotics Invention System) kits than their marketers told them that kids would buy. They would have been happy enough selling to schools. Instead, all of AFOLs bought them, and their eyes were opened.
So, AFOL.
-russ
If this guy had enough Lego(tm) bricks, then he would have been able to do the entire thing in reasonable colors.
-russ
R0ML points me to these two parts of the law:f airpay /fs17e_computer.htm,
. asp
http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/
which says that if IT workers getting paid at least $455/week or $27.63 an hour don't get overtime. Sorry, I was wrong about the minimum amount. You still fall under minimum wage laws, for what that's worth.
Also, you can't volunteer for a for-profit private sector company: http://www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/docs/volunteers
-russ
Not really. The GNU tools were not the only tools. There was PCC, for example. It was the case that Linux was developed using GNU tools, but is not the case that Linux could only have been developed using GNU tools.
And the difference between Linux and the Hurd is that the Hurd has no users and no future.
-russ
Well, I have to say that if the only message you get from Open Source is the development model, then we've done you a disservice. Freedom is an important component of Open Source. It's just not the only component.
-russ
Gawrsh, don't you trust me? What if I was the President of OSI?
-russ
What the HELL are you talking about????? EVERY scientist KNOWS that the globe is WARMING! Only ThE K00KS ThInK ThAt ThEY ARE WroNG!!!
-russ
p.s. historically, you are correct. Of course, we never learn from history.
Where I live, Potsdam, NY. The only bad thing we have here is snow and ice ... and that's of minimal risk since you can prepare for it at a very reasonable cost.
-russ
Uh, it was the Linux kernel which prompted Eric to write The Cathedral and the Bazaar. It wasn't the GNU Herd, which I think about five guys out in some cowtown or beantown or something are running.
-russ
When a lot of slashdotters talk about Open Source they're really talking about the freedoms that the Free Software philosophies have given them. Look around at the stories and comments and keep in mind what both movments really are, you'll be quite amazed.
Exactly! Open Source has successfully transmitted the ideas of Free Software, whereas the approach that the Free Software Foundation attempted to use for 15 years, making very little progress, failed (I say that they failed even at the same time I admit that they converted me.) Hammering a message down people's throats only succeeds if the people are ready for the message. RMS had some success at that, so he believes that hammering is good. At least, the last time he and I had it out, he was firmly convinced that he was succeeding and that if we would only shut up about Open Source, he would be even more of a success.
-russ
Different guy. Linus Torvalds, Linus Torvolds, Linus Torvchevy, and Linux Torvjaguar are all different people, and don't you mistake it.
-russ
That's exactly why we don't fight against RMS. Open Source is the friendly and accepting camp, with no moralizing, just high quality, professionally written free software. If you don't want to use Open Source, you're not an immoral person.
RMS would like us to fight him, because that would draw attention to his philosophy, but we just won't do it.
-russ
I'll freely admit that the name seems to have been chosen on the spur of the moment. It's too descriptive and not unique enough. However, many many people now accept that "Open Source" means what we say it means.
I encourage people to say "Source Available" software if you can get the source code but you might not be able to modify or redistribute it.
-russ
That's why we have the OSI Certified(tm) mark. You can call your software anything you want, but unless it's freely copyable and source is available, it's not OSI Certified Open Source software.
-russ
Software which is not free software will never be Open Source in the sense that OSI will never let it use the OSI Approved(tm) certification mark.
-russ
p.s. as they say "Over my dead body."
"Open Source Initiative". Exposes your ignorance.
Freedom is in fact very important to OSI. OSI was created precisely because Stallman was not succeeding in selling the freedom philosophy. You see, he has been infected by Chomsky's ideas that language controls thoughts. In this system, you cannot think about ideas unless you can verbalize them. Understandably, it takes a PhD and a lot of left-brain thinking to be able to believe this. Me, I never have. So, as VP of OSI, I just promote freedom in the most effective way that I can. I'll leave the cheerleading for the word "freedom" to RMS, while I promote the reality of freedom to people who would never listen to a hairy hippie.
-russ
Does anybody know of a music file server for the WMLS other than twonkyvision-musicserver? It "works" but the combination of it and the WMLS are not terribly reliable.
-russ
And the user interface is crap. If you point to a folder and press play, it only plays the first tune in the folder. DOH! Software should always do the obvious thing that you ask it to do.
-russ