Reading Charles Cooper's banal and juvenile rant reminded me of why I never read C|Net. Now I have to start looking at where links from/. articles go.:-P
We have a booth in the.Org Pavilion, so you will find me, Andy Miller, and Louis Landry there. Also, interesting to you might be that we are presenting the new API to the BostonPHP group (www.bostonphp.org) on Monday night.
The expo is not free IIRC, although we will have some expo passes for the BostonPHP presentation.
If you are in the Boston area, feel free to come by and say hello. We're friendly to other CMS projects as well, as (for example) we had our lead (Andrew) wearing a Drupal tshirt in the London LinuxWorld last year:-)
Regarding the needs for "mission critical" buzzword compliance, we hope you will see the huge changes we have made to the API (and underlying core systems) to make it easier for developers to make sophisticated applications, and quickly. That has always been a benefit of Joomla, and the next release will really open up a lot of doors and provide a lot of additional tools for developers. You could reasonably say that the Joomla CMS was rewritten with the Joomla Framework.
As an aside, is it required that all CMSs have ridiculous names?
First, come up with a name for your CMS. It must be original, easy to remember, and sound good in 142 languages.
Now, this name also must have a TLD available, otherwise there's no value in the name because the TLD will always point to someone else's website.
Not only was everything in english taken, but most nice-sounding meaningful words in Swahili. So the name Joomla (despite being a sound I make when I fall down the stairs) was much better than what was available at the time. So what was available?
www.gilflapsnatwabble.org
www.hyposqueelygackumoid.org
www.stickumscumdiddlywhop.org
www.gooberflasm.org
...and so on. So the alternatives were not that attractive, give us a break man!
"Disclaimer: I'm not involved with Mambo in any way, but I have dealt with similar issues before."
Being that you are posting in the forums with an IP address from one of the Mambo Foundation Board Members' clients, I'm forced to say you are intentionally deceiving us.
There are more details at Ars Technica, providing a little more background to the events leading up to present.
Disclaimer: I am one of the developers involved, and will openly admit it. Sure wished everyone else could be as honest, and cannot wait to get things done proper.
This is asked over and over again, and I'd like to point out that Connolly was distributing Mambo from his own site up until a couple weeks ago, when his download page suddenly and mysteriously disappeared.
I believe one of the core developers (not me though) has a screenshot of his download page, and am certain that there are folks out there that dowloaded it.
"Moving on to point 9: Connolly claims that the GPL doesn't require you to redistribute. This is true. What the GPL requires is that, if you distribute the program in any form, you must also distribute the source under the GPL. If you leave the program in-house running your web site, you don't have to distribute the code at all, ever, to anyone, under the GPL or under any other terms."
If he says he never distributed 'his' Mambo, Mr. Connolly is lying through his teeth. He was distributing Mambo from his very site, under the GPL, up until a few weeks ago.
WayBack Machine failed to cache, but we got a screenshot of his download page at least!
Mr. Connolly was redistributing his version of Mambo on his own website, UNDER THE GPL, up until just a few weeks ago - where it suddenly and mysteriously disappeared.
I believe one of the Mambo core developers (not me though) has a screenshot of the download page.
Good thing they didn't provide a link to www.mamboserver.com, as that would certainly get the server slashdotted.
They provided links all over the place, and many of them to boot, but I find it strange that they link to everyone involved in the story but Mambo. Sure am glad they didn't link to www.mamboserver.com, which just happens to be the official site of Mambo.
I hope you fail to pass your smell test too, otherwise you are probably a very limited developer.
I've been hired by companies to write code that queries the HR database and provides a nicely formatted listing of employees, with hyperlinks to their email addresses and home pages. According to your smell test, I can no longer take on customers that need HR sites. Matter of fact, I suppose I no longer have the right to develop websites that use databases...
We are not talking about competitive advantage, we are not talking about invention, we are talking about a functionality that has been readily available since before 2000. Your moral high ground is a crack pipe, and I think you should put it down before you get caught!
This does however highlight a glaring problem of working with FOSS software for proprietary systems. What is derived, and what is proprietary? What Mr. Sakic wrote was an additional 9 lines of code to an existing item (the front page component, part of Mambo's core). Those nine lines never saw Mambo's core, they were distributed to Mr. Connolly, who then redistributed from his website under the GPL (that is, until it mysteriously disappeared several days ago from his website).
I think you are splitting hairs here, and this issue between Furthermore and Sakic is a poor example of what is right OR wrong with FOSS software. This issue is a blatant attempt at getting free press, and I don't mean the developers. The crime was committed one year ago, but Mr. Connolly was a happy Mambo community member the entire time - that is, up to the point where he needed some buzz for his new website...
The Right Thing To Do(TM) would be for Mr. Connolly to get his own press, and not drag an innocent community through the mud just for some headline coverage. The Right Thing To Do(TM) would be for the press to actually check for evidence (or at least contact both parties) before publishing stories of this nature. The Right Thing To Do(TM) would be for everyone to think about what they are doing before knee-jerk reactions.
Re:they're all idiots, but Connolly is right
on
Mambo Users Threatened
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· Score: 0, Troll
Both Connolly and the developer should have had a contract in place for who owned the resulting (if any) IP. However, since Connolly *paid* for that code, I assume that give him the IP anyway.
First sentence is smack on, second sentence is, well, you know the saying: 'Using the word ASSUME is going to make an ASS out of U and ME.' You ASSUMED dead wrong. Next!
The developer and Mambo's posts (as well as the posts of many slashdotters) have shown that they are wholly ignorant of the terms of the GPL. As soon as they found out that someone had put proprietary code (whether it had been derived from GPL is irrelevant in this context RTFL) in their code base they should have removed it.
Bzzzzzt! Wrongo, monkey boy - next time do read the entire article. There are two competely separate files that the developer can prove as different code, as the 9 lines in dispute never made it to Mambo core. (Oh, and your diatribe of whether/. readers understand the GPL serves what purpose?) Next!
In this case it is a little bit iffy whether the code is owned by Connolly, because it is not the exact same code (not copy pasted) written into his in house version of mambo. This is really the sort of question the Mambo folks should be asking an IP lawyer. Instead, they seem rather eager to get involved in a little crusade for open source against big evil Connolly.
This is what prompted me to reply - as a core developer, I can attest that not one single developer of Mambo (or Miro, the company that holds copyright to Mambo) initiated contact with any publication whatsoever. Every article you are reading was started by Furthermore or was independently created. NOTE: Mr. Connolly is a PR man, the Mambo developers write PHP code - which one are you banking on to have a knack for getting publicity? Yeah, that's what I thought. Next!
Anyway, I think that this entire incident highlights how little most people know about the GPL. Most people seem to assume that it is whatever they want it to be. Check it out at "http://www.opensource.org/licenses/". Personally, I have always preferred the MIT, or BSD licenses due to how small and clear they are. The GPL, on the other hand, is about the size of most EULAs.
Anyway, I think that this entire post highlights how little sentientbrendan knows about the article that he is spouting off.
RTFA, dude! And if you don't have time to read the whole thing, but wanna post flamebait anyway, then do it as AC! Sheesh. Some people's kids.
"To pull our heads away from the heat, if this story was never/.'ed, Connolly and his Furthermore would probably never be heard (NewsForge said he was "far from being the pioneer in this industry"). Now he's given much more publicity than he could never earn if he had not hyped up the issue."
This is exactly why he is doing this - he is mimicking SCO's behaviour in order to generate buzz. He is obviously a PR man with absolutely no common sense (or morals, you choose).
Project Manager: "So we need to start this project off as soon as possible, as this will become the foundation of several different applications."
Programmer: "Wow, kewl, we should do it all in Perl."
DBA: "We will definitely need to have a robust database if it is to power all these different apps."
Programmer: "MySQL rules man! Besides, it is free."
Division Manager: "Hmm, free is good. Can you manage the data in MySQL?"
DBA: "Well, actually MySQL doesn't do..."
Programmer: (interrupts DBA) "We don't need any of that relational integrity crap, that's just marketroid speak for Oracle, dude! All we need are a bunch of tables. I can wrap all of the SQL in a Perl package."
DBA: "Then you will have dirty data, and we can only write apps in Perl if we have to use that library for access. This is really putting all of our eggs in one..."
Project Manager: (interrupts DBA) "So this is free, right? I like free. My stepson talks about Perl, so it must be a totally hip language." (snorts)
Division Manager: "So all of the database logic is now going to be written in Perl, right?"
Programmer: "Absolutely! The database is only there to store data. We can check everything in the application. It will all work perfectly, because I am 3l337."
DBA: "But that's like just using flatfiles, how are you going to..."
Division Manager: (interrupts DBA) "Hey, if this is free, and you can do all the code, then we can cut half of our database specialists to save costs. That is a great idea."
DBA: "You can do that, it is your company and all, but without triggers and some sort of stored procedures..."
Programmer: "What's a stored procedure? Trigger? Isn't that a horse from the 60s?"
Project Manager: "Heh, that's funny."
DBA: "And if the next application needs to be done in Visual Basic, or some other language? Then you will have to write the whole thing over again because..."
Programmer: "Look, this is easy, me and my buddies from the high school can pound this out over the weekend."
Division Manager: "Now THAT's team spirit!"
DBA: "But how can you ensure consistency of data? Your database cannot even enforce minimal compliance of..."
Programmer: "Look, grumpy dude, I don't make mistakes. My code would never create dirty data, and besides, I'm 3l337."
Project Manager: "Wow, my budget is going to look great after this."
I agree with you wholeheartedly, except for one simple fact - which just happens to be the reason that Mono must exist for us to have meaningful access to cross-platform apps on mainstream hardware:
.NET comes preinstalled on anything that says 'Windows'. The others (perl, python, jython, parrot, php, php-gtk, wxWindows...) do NOT.
Got it? I love python, and think it is a much more useful environment - but it is NOT preinstalled on Windows boxen. And if Joe Schmoe has to download and install something first in order to run your app, he ain't gonna do it.
And don't get me started on the understaffed, underpaid, overworked Corporate IT schmoes who will have to download and install python on 18,000 desktops just so your calendar application will run...
We've proven repeatedly that we have the resources, skill and determination to outdo Microsoft at anything we want to do; and now the most important challenge has nothing to do with the technology, but how it is made available to the Windows desktop.
I believe that this is the only reason that Mono will survive, as it is currently the only platform that we can develop with and know that it will execute on a Windows box, out of the box.
Look, here are a ton of great ideas in these responses, but I'd like to add one more that I haven't seen yet.
I have a 5-year old, and a 2-year-old, and they (with the wifey of course) are the absolute center of my existence. When we relocated from Switzerland to Manhattan, I went without work for 9 months. In that span, I spent a tremendous amount of time looking for the desk job in big companies here on Wall Street - Goldman Sachs, Guardian, etc.
But it was a complete waste of time, and I would have never known it.
I also contacted several smallish companies (less than 20 staff) that had minimal-to-no IT staff. They also happened to be financial research firms, and needed desperate help building business systems that were proprietary, internal, and provided competitive advantage. It is these companies that I am making a relatively good living from today, and I DO IT FROM HOME.
I'm paid (and trusted) because of my experience, multi-talented background, and that I have a network of folks I can contact in a pinch to get anything done. I'm not asking for the big bucks, just enough for a family of four to live in comfort and some reasonable financial safety.
I see my kids every day, I am home for lunch every day, and we all love the setup more than you would ever believe.
A VERY important addition to this little tale: my 5-year-old was recently diagnosed with epilepsy - not the hollywood-version where she flops around like a fish on the floor, but the type where she just stares off into NeverNeverLand, and has no idea that the conversation has moved on (when she comes back to you) - in short, this little girl is fighting a battle for control over her mind, a battle that she frequently loses.
Now, realistically, be the wife here. You got a 2-year-old who has 'defensive lineman' written all over him, and he is a handful... On top of that, you have a 5-year-old that you are now homeschooling - there's no rational expectation that she will get patience and understanding in a room with 30 other kids, and an overworked/underpaid teacher that is pressured over the big numbers, not over the quiet little girl sitting in the back...
DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!
Understand that becoming a parent is not always the perfect picture - and always being gone is a recipe for disaster, as not only are you spending all your time making someone else rich, you are also committing to not being there for your family when they may need you the most.
If you really have been at this for some years, and have been successful at it, then you should be able to find two or three smaller companies that need your expertise, and take on projects with all of them. None of the projects will be grand on an individual scale, and none of these companies could afford a large-scale project anyway! You take the three projects, and add the income up to a very good 'salary' with the ability to stay home with your family, and you also get the challenge of solving a diverse array of problems for different people.
You will have fun! No whiners because you stop work to have dinner with the kids, as you will be home anyway. You are a grownup now, and can(should) set that schedule yourself!
Bluefish is more of a gnome-based editor. Quanta is kde2, I think.
Both rock, although I like Bluefish the best (Olivier, you rock!) Supports projects (collections of files) and you can create your own highlighting rules. Has a function list build in, and a whole host of other features.
Besides, I can run bluefish from within sawfish, after eating monkfish and pulling a stalefish on the way back to the office.
Hi. I'm JUDU (Just Another Desktop User). Pretty much, I could care less whether something is in GNOME or KDE, and most likely don't even comprehend the difference.
Chances are, I need a specific application that does something VERY important to me, and that application will either be written for GNOME or KDE. So, I will use whatever environment supports the application that I must have. For me this app is currently bluefish, BLUEFISH ROCKS THE HOUSE! But, thanks to something about gnome (or gtk, I forgot), bluefish cannot show me line numbers, and that's a MAJOR drawback. On the other hand, kunit (thank you Jan) has managed to keep this american from buying shoes in Europe that would require his toes to be amputated.
My experience is that KDE (in the 1.X series) was quick, solid as a rock, and missing 70% of what I needed. So I got sick of waiting and switched to GNOME.
GNOME was pretty, had 70% of what I wanted, and either repeatedly crashed, refused to inter-operate (address books, for example), or just behaved in a fashion completely counter to what I was expecting. No, wait a minute, that was Enlightenment.(drum crash)
Either way, the Linux desktop just is not there yet. And until it is, multiple efforts can only yield choice; and the developers can (and probably do) borrow any great ideas that the other team might have.
I can't wait to try KDE2, but I REALLY can't wait for that cable modem...
{END-USER DISCLAIMER: before I get modded down by the oh-so-tiring "then write it yourself!" snivelling, remember that I clearly identified myself as an END-USER. I am an END-USER because I am building other stuff, be it databases, websites, or tacos al pastor. User 222722 asked for an opinion, and here it is.}
"We're sorry, this elevator will be temporarily unavailable due to broccoli, nachos and excessive use of curry. The elevator will return online as soon as ventilation completes."
I really like that they have been keeping their distro somewhat up to date with the Joneses, but recently something happened that really got me thinking about the people at RedHat.
Last fall I ordered the boxed set (Battlestar Galactica Edition with Flux Capacitor and five CDs of stuff from about a year ago). Everything was great. The installs worked just perfect (on several machines). I even received printed documentation, although it was all about Gnome.
I also received a Hat. Very nice quality, this Hat. Adjustable size, solidly manufactured with an embroidered logo on the top.
But it wasn't red.
You would think that a company called RedHat would send you a Hat, and it would be Red, right? That has me wondering if there's a new subversive element at RedHat, working from within, with the final intent to morph RedHat into, yes, you got it, BlackHat!
I'd like to say quickly that I rarely read posts by Mr. Katz but I had to read this one as it is such an important issue. So instead of beating up on Jon (and taking neg. karma for it by his faithful minions) I'll just get to the point. *slow grin*
It is my belief that society, regardless of the 'Net, is evolving in this direction. People have less forgiveness, less civility, and more frustration and hostility. The 'Net is merely following suit, albeit in an accelerated fashion of sorts.
Think about it. So you are aware of my perspective - I'm in the US, early thirties, and remember when driving was much less hazardous. I remember when high school students merely beat each other up as opposed to projectile-induced homicide. I remember when rough-looking kids standing around on street corners were just trying to look bad - and now they are packing some heat, and no longer just _look_ bad.
We are teaching the younger generations that they need not bother themselves with accountability, and that achieving respect from others is not important at all. We teach them in how we deal with others, business, mass media, everything we do. They certainly are not just making this stuff up; and we are responsible for setting the tone.
The 'Net is following this path at a much faster pace, with a few examples... You spew a bunch of vulgarities in someone's face, you risk a bloody lip - but not on the 'Net. You break into someone's house, you'll probably go to jail - the 'Net is a safer place to commit vandalism and 'digital burglary'. You can gang up with your friends and harass someone, but chances are you'll have to answer for it to the authorities - but on the 'Net, it can be considered a 'service' (e.g., RBL, ORBS).
There are some issues here that seem 'Net specific, but are really just digital manifestations of our real society's shortcomings. Until we start taking ourselves seriously and emphasize accountability and responsibility, these problems will continue to fester.
Man, I've waited _forever_ to use the word 'fester'. That really felt good.
For me the Slashdot issue that Katz writes about actually goes far beyond the scope of the 'Net. The million dollar question is this: Can sociological change on the 'Net influence the real world? Or are we faced with a change that must begin in the real world, and hope it propogates online? I know that some things have changed society - terminology/slang, for instance - but how about how people treat each other? How about how we view ourselves?
A GUI installer means I now have to find a mouse when I install another server... Plus, as no intellingent person would desire to run X on a server (especially running headless), it is even more of an inconvenience to install Oracle 8i (needs X *and* java).
D'oh!
So I have three different servers here that I have to put X and java on just to install a database. It has become so bad that I keep a laptop around running X just so I can ssh to the headless server for the java-based install. Icky.
At Oracle's Performance Tuning classes you will be told that RAID is bad, raw is the only way to go. One of the main reasons for this is that when Oracle "writes" to disk, it really needs to write at that instant, not when the OS has the time.
Power failure? With OS-based filesystems, you lose (literally). When going raw, you still have logfiles that are current and you can recover to the last millisecond - without it, you can kinda recover, that is, until the power failure, and then you get to guess which transactions were or were not committed to disk.
Frightening, if your database means anything to you.
Gee, let's break them all up! It sure worked wonders for the phone companies!
[slap]
Look here, fellow mutants, in order to break up Ma Bell, they had to regulate them so tightly (to keep them apart) that it was impossible for any other NEW companies to emerge. It's hard enough starting a new company; and impossible in an industry that requires 5 times the startup to meet all of the red tape requirements.
Do you REALLY want to give the software industry that kind of an enema? I'd hope not. Besides, without Microsoft I would never again relish the opportunity to laugh at all of my friends / relatives / coworkers when their machines froze.
Slashdot Mirror
Reading Charles Cooper's banal and juvenile rant reminded me of why I never read C|Net. Now I have to start looking at where links from /. articles go. :-P
You're new to these parts, aren't you?
We have a booth in the .Org Pavilion, so you will find me, Andy Miller, and Louis Landry there. Also, interesting to you might be that we are presenting the new API to the BostonPHP group (www.bostonphp.org) on Monday night.
The expo is not free IIRC, although we will have some expo passes for the BostonPHP presentation.
If you are in the Boston area, feel free to come by and say hello. We're friendly to other CMS projects as well, as (for example) we had our lead (Andrew) wearing a Drupal tshirt in the London LinuxWorld last year :-)
Regarding the needs for "mission critical" buzzword compliance, we hope you will see the huge changes we have made to the API (and underlying core systems) to make it easier for developers to make sophisticated applications, and quickly. That has always been a benefit of Joomla, and the next release will really open up a lot of doors and provide a lot of additional tools for developers. You could reasonably say that the Joomla CMS was rewritten with the Joomla Framework.
As an aside, is it required that all CMSs have ridiculous names?
First, come up with a name for your CMS. It must be original, easy to remember, and sound good in 142 languages.
Now, this name also must have a TLD available, otherwise there's no value in the name because the TLD will always point to someone else's website.
Not only was everything in english taken, but most nice-sounding meaningful words in Swahili. So the name Joomla (despite being a sound I make when I fall down the stairs) was much better than what was available at the time. So what was available?
...and so on. So the alternatives were not that attractive, give us a break man!
"Disclaimer: I'm not involved with Mambo in any way, but I have dealt with similar issues before."
Being that you are posting in the forums with an IP address from one of the Mambo Foundation Board Members' clients, I'm forced to say you are intentionally deceiving us.
There are more details at Ars Technica, providing a little more background to the events leading up to present.
Disclaimer: I am one of the developers involved, and will openly admit it. Sure wished everyone else could be as honest, and cannot wait to get things done proper.
Mitch Pirtle (spacemonkey)
OpenSourceMatters.org
This is asked over and over again, and I'd like to point out that Connolly was distributing Mambo from his own site up until a couple weeks ago, when his download page suddenly and mysteriously disappeared.
I believe one of the core developers (not me though) has a screenshot of his download page, and am certain that there are folks out there that dowloaded it.
"Moving on to point 9: Connolly claims that the GPL doesn't require you to redistribute. This is true. What the GPL requires is that, if you distribute the program in any form, you must also distribute the source under the GPL. If you leave the program in-house running your web site, you don't have to distribute the code at all, ever, to anyone, under the GPL or under any other terms."
If he says he never distributed 'his' Mambo, Mr. Connolly is lying through his teeth. He was distributing Mambo from his very site, under the GPL, up until a few weeks ago.
WayBack Machine failed to cache, but we got a screenshot of his download page at least!
Mr. Connolly was redistributing his version of Mambo on his own website, UNDER THE GPL, up until just a few weeks ago - where it suddenly and mysteriously disappeared.
I believe one of the Mambo core developers (not me though) has a screenshot of the download page.
Good thing they didn't provide a link to www.mamboserver.com, as that would certainly get the server slashdotted.
They provided links all over the place, and many of them to boot, but I find it strange that they link to everyone involved in the story but Mambo. Sure am glad they didn't link to www.mamboserver.com, which just happens to be the official site of Mambo.
innocent smile.
I hope you fail to pass your smell test too, otherwise you are probably a very limited developer.
I've been hired by companies to write code that queries the HR database and provides a nicely formatted listing of employees, with hyperlinks to their email addresses and home pages. According to your smell test, I can no longer take on customers that need HR sites. Matter of fact, I suppose I no longer have the right to develop websites that use databases...
We are not talking about competitive advantage, we are not talking about invention, we are talking about a functionality that has been readily available since before 2000. Your moral high ground is a crack pipe, and I think you should put it down before you get caught!
This does however highlight a glaring problem of working with FOSS software for proprietary systems. What is derived, and what is proprietary? What Mr. Sakic wrote was an additional 9 lines of code to an existing item (the front page component, part of Mambo's core). Those nine lines never saw Mambo's core, they were distributed to Mr. Connolly, who then redistributed from his website under the GPL (that is, until it mysteriously disappeared several days ago from his website).
I think you are splitting hairs here, and this issue between Furthermore and Sakic is a poor example of what is right OR wrong with FOSS software. This issue is a blatant attempt at getting free press, and I don't mean the developers. The crime was committed one year ago, but Mr. Connolly was a happy Mambo community member the entire time - that is, up to the point where he needed some buzz for his new website...
The Right Thing To Do(TM) would be for Mr. Connolly to get his own press, and not drag an innocent community through the mud just for some headline coverage. The Right Thing To Do(TM) would be for the press to actually check for evidence (or at least contact both parties) before publishing stories of this nature. The Right Thing To Do(TM) would be for everyone to think about what they are doing before knee-jerk reactions.
Both Connolly and the developer should have had a contract in place for who owned the resulting (if any) IP. However, since Connolly *paid* for that code, I assume that give him the IP anyway.
First sentence is smack on, second sentence is, well, you know the saying: 'Using the word ASSUME is going to make an ASS out of U and ME.' You ASSUMED dead wrong. Next!
The developer and Mambo's posts (as well as the posts of many slashdotters) have shown that they are wholly ignorant of the terms of the GPL. As soon as they found out that someone had put proprietary code (whether it had been derived from GPL is irrelevant in this context RTFL) in their code base they should have removed it.
Bzzzzzt! Wrongo, monkey boy - next time do read the entire article. There are two competely separate files that the developer can prove as different code, as the 9 lines in dispute never made it to Mambo core. (Oh, and your diatribe of whether /. readers understand the GPL serves what purpose?) Next!
In this case it is a little bit iffy whether the code is owned by Connolly, because it is not the exact same code (not copy pasted) written into his in house version of mambo. This is really the sort of question the Mambo folks should be asking an IP lawyer. Instead, they seem rather eager to get involved in a little crusade for open source against big evil Connolly.
This is what prompted me to reply - as a core developer, I can attest that not one single developer of Mambo (or Miro, the company that holds copyright to Mambo) initiated contact with any publication whatsoever. Every article you are reading was started by Furthermore or was independently created. NOTE: Mr. Connolly is a PR man, the Mambo developers write PHP code - which one are you banking on to have a knack for getting publicity? Yeah, that's what I thought. Next!
Anyway, I think that this entire incident highlights how little most people know about the GPL. Most people seem to assume that it is whatever they want it to be. Check it out at "http://www.opensource.org/licenses/". Personally, I have always preferred the MIT, or BSD licenses due to how small and clear they are. The GPL, on the other hand, is about the size of most EULAs.
Anyway, I think that this entire post highlights how little sentientbrendan knows about the article that he is spouting off.
RTFA, dude! And if you don't have time to read the whole thing, but wanna post flamebait anyway, then do it as AC! Sheesh. Some people's kids.
"To pull our heads away from the heat, if this story was never /.'ed, Connolly and his Furthermore would probably never be heard (NewsForge said he was "far from being the pioneer in this industry"). Now he's given much more publicity than he could never earn if he had not hyped up the issue."
This is exactly why he is doing this - he is mimicking SCO's behaviour in order to generate buzz. He is obviously a PR man with absolutely no common sense (or morals, you choose).
There's nothing to see here, move along.
Project Manager: "So we need to start this project off as soon as possible, as this will become the foundation of several different applications."
Programmer: "Wow, kewl, we should do it all in Perl."
DBA: "We will definitely need to have a robust database if it is to power all these different apps."
Programmer: "MySQL rules man! Besides, it is free."
Division Manager: "Hmm, free is good. Can you manage the data in MySQL?"
DBA: "Well, actually MySQL doesn't do..."
Programmer: (interrupts DBA) "We don't need any of that relational integrity crap, that's just marketroid speak for Oracle, dude! All we need are a bunch of tables. I can wrap all of the SQL in a Perl package."
DBA: "Then you will have dirty data, and we can only write apps in Perl if we have to use that library for access. This is really putting all of our eggs in one..."
Project Manager: (interrupts DBA) "So this is free, right? I like free. My stepson talks about Perl, so it must be a totally hip language." (snorts)
Division Manager: "So all of the database logic is now going to be written in Perl, right?"
Programmer: "Absolutely! The database is only there to store data. We can check everything in the application. It will all work perfectly, because I am 3l337."
DBA: "But that's like just using flatfiles, how are you going to..."
Division Manager: (interrupts DBA) "Hey, if this is free, and you can do all the code, then we can cut half of our database specialists to save costs. That is a great idea."
DBA: "You can do that, it is your company and all, but without triggers and some sort of stored procedures..."
Programmer: "What's a stored procedure? Trigger? Isn't that a horse from the 60s?"
Project Manager: "Heh, that's funny."
DBA: "And if the next application needs to be done in Visual Basic, or some other language? Then you will have to write the whole thing over again because..."
Programmer: "Look, this is easy, me and my buddies from the high school can pound this out over the weekend."
Division Manager: "Now THAT's team spirit!"
DBA: "But how can you ensure consistency of data? Your database cannot even enforce minimal compliance of..."
Programmer: "Look, grumpy dude, I don't make mistakes. My code would never create dirty data, and besides, I'm 3l337."
Project Manager: "Wow, my budget is going to look great after this."
DBA: (leaves room, goes home and beats dog)
I agree with you wholeheartedly, except for one simple fact - which just happens to be the reason that Mono must exist for us to have meaningful access to cross-platform apps on mainstream hardware:
Got it? I love python, and think it is a much more useful environment - but it is NOT preinstalled on Windows boxen. And if Joe Schmoe has to download and install something first in order to run your app, he ain't gonna do it.
And don't get me started on the understaffed, underpaid, overworked Corporate IT schmoes who will have to download and install python on 18,000 desktops just so your calendar application will run...
We've proven repeatedly that we have the resources, skill and determination to outdo Microsoft at anything we want to do; and now the most important challenge has nothing to do with the technology, but how it is made available to the Windows desktop.
I believe that this is the only reason that Mono will survive, as it is currently the only platform that we can develop with and know that it will execute on a Windows box, out of the box.
Look, here are a ton of great ideas in these responses, but I'd like to add one more that I haven't seen yet.
I have a 5-year old, and a 2-year-old, and they (with the wifey of course) are the absolute center of my existence. When we relocated from Switzerland to Manhattan, I went without work for 9 months. In that span, I spent a tremendous amount of time looking for the desk job in big companies here on Wall Street - Goldman Sachs, Guardian, etc.
But it was a complete waste of time, and I would have never known it.
I also contacted several smallish companies (less than 20 staff) that had minimal-to-no IT staff. They also happened to be financial research firms, and needed desperate help building business systems that were proprietary, internal, and provided competitive advantage. It is these companies that I am making a relatively good living from today, and I DO IT FROM HOME.
I'm paid (and trusted) because of my experience, multi-talented background, and that I have a network of folks I can contact in a pinch to get anything done. I'm not asking for the big bucks, just enough for a family of four to live in comfort and some reasonable financial safety.
I see my kids every day, I am home for lunch every day, and we all love the setup more than you would ever believe.
A VERY important addition to this little tale: my 5-year-old was recently diagnosed with epilepsy - not the hollywood-version where she flops around like a fish on the floor, but the type where she just stares off into NeverNeverLand, and has no idea that the conversation has moved on (when she comes back to you) - in short, this little girl is fighting a battle for control over her mind, a battle that she frequently loses.
Now, realistically, be the wife here. You got a 2-year-old who has 'defensive lineman' written all over him, and he is a handful... On top of that, you have a 5-year-old that you are now homeschooling - there's no rational expectation that she will get patience and understanding in a room with 30 other kids, and an overworked/underpaid teacher that is pressured over the big numbers, not over the quiet little girl sitting in the back...
DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!
Understand that becoming a parent is not always the perfect picture - and always being gone is a recipe for disaster, as not only are you spending all your time making someone else rich, you are also committing to not being there for your family when they may need you the most.
If you really have been at this for some years, and have been successful at it, then you should be able to find two or three smaller companies that need your expertise, and take on projects with all of them. None of the projects will be grand on an individual scale, and none of these companies could afford a large-scale project anyway! You take the three projects, and add the income up to a very good 'salary' with the ability to stay home with your family, and you also get the challenge of solving a diverse array of problems for different people.
You will have fun! No whiners because you stop work to have dinner with the kids, as you will be home anyway. You are a grownup now, and can(should) set that schedule yourself!
What if we lost all possible code? In any digital format, including media?
Whew, thank the gods for all those ThinkGeek shirts.
Bluefish is more of a gnome-based editor. Quanta is kde2, I think.
Both rock, although I like Bluefish the best (Olivier, you rock!) Supports projects (collections of files) and you can create your own highlighting rules. Has a function list build in, and a whole host of other features.
Besides, I can run bluefish from within sawfish, after eating monkfish and pulling a stalefish on the way back to the office.
{warning: END-USER opinion follows}
Hi. I'm JUDU (Just Another Desktop User). Pretty much, I could care less whether something is in GNOME or KDE, and most likely don't even comprehend the difference.
Chances are, I need a specific application that does something VERY important to me, and that application will either be written for GNOME or KDE. So, I will use whatever environment supports the application that I must have. For me this app is currently bluefish, BLUEFISH ROCKS THE HOUSE! But, thanks to something about gnome (or gtk, I forgot), bluefish cannot show me line numbers, and that's a MAJOR drawback. On the other hand, kunit (thank you Jan) has managed to keep this american from buying shoes in Europe that would require his toes to be amputated.
My experience is that KDE (in the 1.X series) was quick, solid as a rock, and missing 70% of what I needed. So I got sick of waiting and switched to GNOME.
GNOME was pretty, had 70% of what I wanted, and either repeatedly crashed, refused to inter-operate (address books, for example), or just behaved in a fashion completely counter to what I was expecting. No, wait a minute, that was Enlightenment.(drum crash)
Either way, the Linux desktop just is not there yet. And until it is, multiple efforts can only yield choice; and the developers can (and probably do) borrow any great ideas that the other team might have.
I can't wait to try KDE2, but I REALLY can't wait for that cable modem...
{END-USER DISCLAIMER: before I get modded down by the oh-so-tiring "then write it yourself!" snivelling, remember that I clearly identified myself as an END-USER. I am an END-USER because I am building other stuff, be it databases, websites, or tacos al pastor. User 222722 asked for an opinion, and here it is.}
"We're sorry, this elevator will be temporarily unavailable due to broccoli, nachos and excessive use of curry. The elevator will return online as soon as ventilation completes."
I really like that they have been keeping their distro somewhat up to date with the Joneses, but recently something happened that really got me thinking about the people at RedHat.
Last fall I ordered the boxed set (Battlestar Galactica Edition with Flux Capacitor and five CDs of stuff from about a year ago). Everything was great. The installs worked just perfect (on several machines). I even received printed documentation, although it was all about Gnome.
I also received a Hat. Very nice quality, this Hat. Adjustable size, solidly manufactured with an embroidered logo on the top.
But it wasn't red.
You would think that a company called RedHat would send you a Hat, and it would be Red, right? That has me wondering if there's a new subversive element at RedHat, working from within, with the final intent to morph RedHat into, yes, you got it, BlackHat!
I'd like to say quickly that I rarely read posts by Mr. Katz but I had to read this one as it is such an important issue. So instead of beating up on Jon (and taking neg. karma for it by his faithful minions) I'll just get to the point. *slow grin*
It is my belief that society, regardless of the 'Net, is evolving in this direction. People have less forgiveness, less civility, and more frustration and hostility. The 'Net is merely following suit, albeit in an accelerated fashion of sorts.
Think about it. So you are aware of my perspective - I'm in the US, early thirties, and remember when driving was much less hazardous. I remember when high school students merely beat each other up as opposed to projectile-induced homicide. I remember when rough-looking kids standing around on street corners were just trying to look bad - and now they are packing some heat, and no longer just _look_ bad.
We are teaching the younger generations that they need not bother themselves with accountability, and that achieving respect from others is not important at all. We teach them in how we deal with others, business, mass media, everything we do. They certainly are not just making this stuff up; and we are responsible for setting the tone.
The 'Net is following this path at a much faster pace, with a few examples... You spew a bunch of vulgarities in someone's face, you risk a bloody lip - but not on the 'Net. You break into someone's house, you'll probably go to jail - the 'Net is a safer place to commit vandalism and 'digital burglary'. You can gang up with your friends and harass someone, but chances are you'll have to answer for it to the authorities - but on the 'Net, it can be considered a 'service' (e.g., RBL, ORBS).
There are some issues here that seem 'Net specific, but are really just digital manifestations of our real society's shortcomings. Until we start taking ourselves seriously and emphasize accountability and responsibility, these problems will continue to fester.
Man, I've waited _forever_ to use the word 'fester'. That really felt good.
For me the Slashdot issue that Katz writes about actually goes far beyond the scope of the 'Net. The million dollar question is this: Can sociological change on the 'Net influence the real world? Or are we faced with a change that must begin in the real world, and hope it propogates online? I know that some things have changed society - terminology/slang, for instance - but how about how people treat each other? How about how we view ourselves?
A GUI installer means I now have to find a mouse when I install another server... Plus, as no intellingent person would desire to run X on a server (especially running headless), it is even more of an inconvenience to install Oracle 8i (needs X *and* java).
D'oh!
So I have three different servers here that I have to put X and java on just to install a database. It has become so bad that I keep a laptop around running X just so I can ssh to the headless server for the java-based install. Icky.
Naw, I'll just use MySQL -;^>=
I've been using all of the Oracle stuff for linux (actually have been using Oracle since before linux) and have to say that 8i is the way to go. Why?
1) Two words: Log Miner.
2) PL/SQL runs faster, without modification
3) Index-organized tables
4) More database attributes are dynamic
Basically, it is faster, can be modified on the fly, lets you cluster tables, and it's even MORE difficult to install. [slow grin]
- mitchy
At Oracle's Performance Tuning classes you will be told that RAID is bad, raw is the only way to go. One of the main reasons for this is that when Oracle "writes" to disk, it really needs to write at that instant, not when the OS has the time.
Power failure? With OS-based filesystems, you lose (literally). When going raw, you still have logfiles that are current and you can recover to the last millisecond - without it, you can kinda recover, that is, until the power failure, and then you get to guess which transactions were or were not committed to disk.
Frightening, if your database means anything to you.
- mitchy
Gee, let's break them all up! It sure worked wonders for the phone companies!
[slap]
Look here, fellow mutants, in order to break up Ma Bell, they had to regulate them so tightly (to keep them apart) that it was impossible for any other NEW companies to emerge. It's hard enough starting a new company; and impossible in an industry that requires 5 times the startup to meet all of the red tape requirements.
Do you REALLY want to give the software industry that kind of an enema? I'd hope not. Besides, without Microsoft I would never again relish the opportunity to laugh at all of my friends / relatives / coworkers when their machines froze.
- mitchy