Posted by
CmdrTaco
on from the if-you-got-your-own-T3 dept.
Brian Ginter writes "I noticed on www.redhat.com today that 6.2 is officially released. It'll be shipping April 10. "
162 comments
where have you been?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1
the US crypto laws were passed almost 2 months ago, it's no longer illegal to export 128 bit encryption, not sure on the full details of everything passed, but this much i know. glad to see the US is so up to speed on everything.
Re:Trying to download 6.2 over M$ Proxy server
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1
Try LeechFTP, and then GetRight. Both of those can be configured to use a proxy server. Remember to set it to use the server's IP, port 21.
RedHat lost it's values in the Motif game?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1
Anyone notice the RedHat Linux Enterprise Edition description?
Motif 2.1 Integration?!
Oh boy! RedHat seem to be jump back and forth on the Motif issue. Why don't they just fund the lesstif project already?! This feature item seems to violate feature item number one (Open source code gives control back to developers and system administrators). Also, when RedHat dropped TriTeal's CDE port they had a long rant on their website about the reliablity and security issues with the closed source CDE and Motif. They followed the rant up with a shamless plug for GNOME as being the solution. Has Motif 2.1 really addressed all the problems that caused RedHat rant when they dropped TriTeal CDE or have they just given-in for Oracle's demands? If GNOME was the ultimate solution that the rant made it out to be and RedHat and Oracle worked so closely together then why couldn't RedHat get Oracle to support Gtk instead of RedHat supporting the Motif product they claimed to be so botched?
If you read between the lines in the product description, it says Oracle dictated the terms of an optimized enviroment and to hell with the Linux community on what they think is right. When I have the option to do:
./orainst/g
and get a GTK window up, then I'll believe that Oracle worked to integrate with Linux. Supporting the Motif'd/m is just Linux community laying down their values to "integrate" with Oracle's demands, not the other way around.
Re:Red Hat 6.2 Officially Released
by
MassacrE
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· Score: 1
haha that is cool! did you do that on purpose? (or was that a goof?)
Re:RedHat announce message
by
Jamie+Zawinski
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· Score: 1
termcap, terminfo, and various terms have been modified to support the Debian Backspace Guidelines
What's this? Neither Google nor Altavista have heard of it, and debian.org seems to be suffering from some kind of religious spasm that has caused them to take down their search page.
From the brief description, I assume this creates a big-ass file on an existing FAT partition which contains all the ext2 partitions you, like many emulation programs and the next (current?) version of BeOS.
What, if any, other distros offer this? Any experiences with it? This could be handy for a Wintel machine which is used as a secondary linux box.
Re:Partitionless installs
by
medicthree
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· Score: 1
Here are some other distros using partionless installs: PhatLinux, WinLinux2000, and DOSLinux. Information o nthese, as well as a great number of other Linux distros are available at linux.org. Please remember the loopback distors are slower than normal distros due to the nature of their filesystems. They are great for people wanting to try Linux, however. All you have to do to uninstall the system is delete 1 directory.
Re:Partitionless installs
by
Thomas+Charron
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· Score: 2
Many of the distros wanting to ease migration offer this, such as WinLinux. Others take the tract of using UMSDOS. Personally, I like to loopback idea better..;-P
-- -- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
Re:Partitionless installs
by
dangermouse
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· Score: 2
> Don't you think 2 stories on redhat 6.2 is a little bit of overkill. >First it is a . release, and second I haven't seen or heard of any >wildly revolutionary changes that even make this noteworthy. >The people that really care were probaly following it anyway.
(1) Actually if you'ld been paying attention, you'ld found out that 6.2 ships with things that the BSD crowd in particular seems to bitch about being defaulted on linux is now defaulted off.
(2) People like talking about the linux dists they use. Sorry if this offends Microsoft Astroturfers like yourself.
(3) Talking about . releases on Slashdot give the various linux dists makers the kind of public feedback that they normally don't get.
(4) I *COULD* continue, but I think you get the point. Sod off....
>It is somewhat annoying that there exists such a rabid vocal linux >following. Just because you disagree, you have to become insulting, >this kind of attitude only hurts all of us that would like to see >wider adoption of linux and other free software.
Spare us please. You Astrotufers got caught red-handed over on the MSNBC Technology Bulletin Board pulling your bullshit: BTW, since when has Microsoft been a 100% Free-BSD / Sun Sparc shop? http://bbs.msnbc.com/bbs/msnbc-scitech/posts/fu/ 139105.asp
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Subject: From: Host: Date: Re: Cut MS some slack Anonymous tide117.microsoft.com Thu Mar 23 15:03:58 On Thu Mar 23 10:43:13, R Jones wrote: > There would be NO internet communication if there wasn't > software like Apache which runs 56% of all > webservers. Apache is 100% totally NOT win32 (yes > you can download a win32 version but they highly don't > recommend it...very unsecure). MSNBC Technology Bulletin Board (p3 of 5) > Go go go Apache....erase IIS4...heh. >
Get a clue. Try benchmarking Apache against iis 5.0.
We did that, thinking it was going to be a joke, since we are a 100% Free-BSD / Sun Sparc shop. Guess what we found. ON IDENTICAL HARDWARE, IIS 5.0 cared 10 times the load. . . Sure apache has large market share, but I have two questions, "for how much longer, and, "what does this have to do with the antitrust case?" As a matter of fact buy writing this email you show that, "THERE IS COMPETITION," and Microsoft therefore is not a monopoly.
This is similar to what Slackware users have had for several versions now. We call it ZipSlack...unzip a file & go. Hard to get less painfull than that, eh?
More recently there is a beast called BigSlack...same basic deal, but with all the goodies.
Neither makes much sense as a dayly driver, but they're great as a save test drive, or when you just need a Linux box *now* as a stop-gap.
Folks should really consider having a look at Slackware. Due to the influx of new folks who don't understand what it takes to build a stable system, Slack has developed an unfair rep as not being an innovative and current distro. See for yourself, don't take other people's word for it.
Remember: Most people are stupid.
Got Slack? -- If your map and the terrain differ, trust the terrain.
you can still use the text install... just type "text" when the cd first boots (like it says to)
--
support gun control: take guns from cops
Re:RedHat announce message
by
arwild01
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· Score: 1
I grabbed the ISO off of kernel.org yesterday and installed it on my workstation last night.
IMHO, the most interesting thing in this release is all of the kerberos suupport, and the "Docs" CD. Strangely enough neither is mentioned in the announcement.
Oh yeah, and there is a good amount of crypto included: mutt-international version (finally), gnupg, and netscape-128bit would be the biggies.
No this release isn't revolutionary. It's not supplosed to be. It's a minor release. Good to see another one though.
Stuff compiled on 6.2 is supposed to run on prior 6.x releases, which is not the case if we had updated gcc (c++ changes). gcc 2.95.3 (or whatever is current by then, maybe 2.96, maybe 3.0) will be in 7.0.
gcc 3 will probably be the next gcc release - even if not gcc 3 will certainly be out by next fall. It was scheduled for Q1 2000, now looking that will be late, but in any case it should be out by this summer (oh, I'm looking forward to that!)
BTW, I hope you're planning on getting rid of the compat libs in 7. If people need to run their stuff on 5* or 6*, they can download the fscking sources and compile them. Or put it in powertools or something. It just seems to be a really stupid thing to put into the main distribution (especially considering things like Mesa weren't in 6.1)
Well, I'm looking forward to 7. The RSA patent will have expired, so you can ship OpenSSH, OpenSSL, and psst, along with XFree4, 2.4 kernel, gcc3... yum.
Binary compatibility. Stuff compiled on 6.2 is supposed to run on prior 6.x releases, which is not the case if we had updated gcc (c++ changes). gcc 2.95.3 (or whatever is current by then, maybe 2.96, maybe 3.0) will be in 7.0.
-- This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
Re:Wow! So many Linux releases!
by
buffy
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· Score: 1
Take a minute prior to posting in the future, and type something into the search box at the bottom of the/. homepage. I typed in Caldera and got a page full of links, including, amongst other things, a version release story.
Not a flame, just trying to point out that your observation is incorrect.
OK, I got onto Redhat's ftp site and am wanting to get the ISO for 6.2. In the ISO directory I notice this zoot-doc.iso. Does this mean they have a cd's worth of documentation?????(it's >600MB)
Yup.... played with it last night. They moved all the.rpm and.src.rpm files that are only documentation (gimp-manual, howto, rhl-ig, etc.)off of the main CDs, and onto the docs CD. They also have unpacked versions of all the files so you can jujst broese it off the CD rather than install it.
Given the size of gimp-manual I think this is a good idea.
What are the reasons for not putting in XFree86 4.0? I am sure they had good reasons, but what are they exactly? Should I (or others) hold off before download source/RPMs?
There are restrictions on where the kernel can physically be on the disk. So a/boot dir is created to ensure that whatever wacky partitions you create, the kernel will be in the correct place.
So use the kickstart feature present in the RedHat installer? It allows you to say what you want installed (precisely afaik). You put it on a disk, insert it, and it'll do it for you... I'm pretty sure it doesn't do all that over the network though (unless you netboot the box with the modified install-disk, if at all possible:)
I understand there is a problem with the moderating system. It lacks an option which indicates 'false-inflation'. Some comments are not worthy of being hire than 1. If some lame moderator puts down "insightful", if it really was only wasted text, you are left with calling it "troll" or "off-topic".
Actually, the moderation system has 2 options for "underrated" and "overrated".
-mark
--
-mark
If your computer says LINUX, run...computers can't talk! [unless you have text-speech software]
I just downloaded Redhat 6.2 and I am very disappointed. There is no significant new feature. I am waiting for SuSE 6.4 now, which should come out any minute. At least they have an optinal XFree 4 with configuration tool included...
Hopefully SuSE puts their distro on the ftp servers right away this time.
I used to work with Linux all the time, but now that I work with Solaris I can't say I miss it much. I'd rather spend time adding gcc, bash and friends to a Solaris box than removing Python and stuff from a Red Hat box.
The worst part of this is that even in "upgrade" mode, the install script decides that you really need all the eye candy and gnome foo which you painstakingly un-installed the last time you did an install.
So, you have to go root it all out all over again.
At least the install processes didn't whack nearly as many of my config files as it did the last time. Still, with each release the comparative pain threshold involved in switching to debian instead gets smaller and smaller.
So far, I haven't seen md5sums or cksums on any of the mirrors. I've got the ISO's mirrored, but the i386 image didn't boot on my system.
Could anyone else run md5sum or cksum on their iso images and see if they match these: b7cb386ec426ae38a925bdd844b86f84 zoot-i386.iso 9fe617911acc104f8c89a0f8ea1b5917 zoot-srpms.iso 3132136560 671881216 zoot-i386.iso 1388524199 594044928 zoot-srpms.iso
Actually this makes teaching 6.1 installation make more sense. In very loose generalities by the time the sucessor to a piece of software is announced the bugs in the older version are pretty well known (and in the case of linux, usually fixed). This gives the opprotunity to teach installing the fixes as part of installing a new system.
Re:Red Hat 6.2 Officially Released
by
pointwood
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· Score: 1
I don't think that comment is entirely fair. If you look at Mandrake 6.2 versus Mandrake 7.0, there are some really big differences.
I know Linux 2.4 kernel, Xfree 4.0 and other stuff isn't there, but instead there are:
- DrakX: Their graphical installation program. - DiskDrake: Their graphical patitioning program. - DrakConf: Their graphical configuring program.
Those are some pretty huge improvements over version 6.2 - whether they are enough for a jump to 7.0 can be discussed, but I think they are more than a jump to ex. 6.3!
A distribution is not just a collection of RPMs, or source files, or whatever. Red Hat puts extensive work into customizing the packages for their system, configuring things to work nicely together, improving the system configuration tools, etc. If you stick with your base system and never upgrade, but instead just update your packages from source, your system will have a different flavour after time goes by, which is fine. But you will miss some of the engineering of the distributor. ----
-- -- I need more coffee. It's Monday. There is no such thing as enough coffee on a Monday.
Why I cannot but Redhat 6.2
by
Skapare
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· Score: 1
When I go to their secure store site, I get a popup box that says:
The security library has experienced a database error. You will probably be unable to connect to this site securely.
It has no button to allow me to choose to continue anyway. So why do I get this error only on Redhat's web site and not others? I seem to recall this problem in an earlier release. I'm assuming they run their own web server software, which I would not want to buy because I would not want to risk this kind of thing affecting my site visitors.
BTW, I know it is not an expired certificate problem, because I get a different popup for that, and that popup lets me decide to continue.
On topic: I agree with another poster, it is helpful to be able to get to the mirror sites before the mad rush hits.
On-and-off topic: I believe their should be a different grouping for beta release and distro release news. In this manner, those who do not care can elect to have it not appear in their news listing.
Off topic (but in line with this post): Too often people who have negative points are moderated down as troll. Mention something positive about M$ and you take a dive. I am not saying I like M$, but some of the posts have been useful insights. I understand there is a problem with the moderating system. It lacks an option which indicates 'false-inflation'. Some comments are not worthy of being hire than 1. If some lame moderator puts down "insightful", if it really was only wasted text, you are left with calling it "troll" or "off-topic".
Just my 3 cents.
-- In a place beyond time and space, in a land far better than
this, look for me there...
Basically they boiled down to it not being stable enough on anything other than i386. They figured that by the time the inevitable bugfixes, etc. made it out, that Linux 2.4 would be also out, and that would be about time to start up a 7.0 series.
-- It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it. - Sean
-- It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
The acronym ISO stands for "International Standards Organization". They"devise" (for lack of a better word) standards for all sorts of things. The nomenclature ISOXXXX refers to a specific standard. ISO9000, for example, is a standard for workflow management, designed to help get optimum efficiency and stuff out of a work process. ISO8570 (or something close to it) is a standard for fabrics, designed with safety (ie: fire retardancy) in mind. The standards they come up with are extremely wide-ranging.
The one relevant to this discussion is ISO9660, which is a standard for encoding data on a CD. Thus a *.iso file is one that conforms to the ISO9660 standard, and can be written directly to a CD, which can then be read just like any other "standard" CD.
-- It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it. - Sean
-- It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
I would just like to add that even those with free and unlimited high-speed Internet access don't necessarily have the time or patience to monitor all software releases...;)
--
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
Re:RedHat announce message
by
Menthos
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· Score: 1
No there isn't, I don't know where I got that from. Sorry... =(
The amazing Bero's Experimental Packages site. Lots of goodies for those who can't wait, including Red Hat packages for KDE2 and XFree86 4.0.
--
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
Re:RedHat announce message
by
Menthos
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· Score: 1
It tries to manage to be everything you mentioned.
This is not bad IMHO because you can choose what kind of install you want - Server, Gnome Workstation, KDE Workstation, Laptop System - it's a simple choice in the install. And don't worry, you can also select exactly what packages you want.
I think this is a Good Thing. Instead of having distributions tailored for various uses you have a "fat" distribution and the option to choose the primary use in the install. Of course you can tailor Slackware exactly the way you want too, but I think the option in the RedHat install is nice, because even if you want the system tailored for a specific use you don't have to choose all the packages yourself if you don't want to.
Anyways, a new Linux release is always good for the community
Pilot said:
And why, pray tell, is that?
Hmmm. OK. I see where you're coming from, however, I'm not talking about the stability of the systems provided. I guess I'm coming from the "there's no such thing as bad publicity" department.
My thinking works like this:
+ More products are released + These are advertised + Therefore there are more and more adverts + Therefore the catchment area for the adverts grows (even by accident, if there are more, then there is a greater chance of a person seeing at least one of them). + Therefore more people get to find hear about Linux + Therefore more good/useful/helpful people move into the Linux community and my original statement stands.
Works for me anyway;-)
Nick.
Re:What about XFree 4.0 ???
by
KingInk
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· Score: 1
Where can grab the Mandrake XFree 4.0 RPMS ? I looked all other the Mandrake site and couldn't find them.
10x in advance
Major questions about RedHat
by
mitchy
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· Score: 1
I really like that they have been keeping their distro somewhat up to date with the Joneses, but recently something happened that really got me thinking about the people at RedHat.
Last fall I ordered the boxed set (Battlestar Galactica Edition with Flux Capacitor and five CDs of stuff from about a year ago). Everything was great. The installs worked just perfect (on several machines). I even received printed documentation, although it was all about Gnome.
I also received a Hat. Very nice quality, this Hat. Adjustable size, solidly manufactured with an embroidered logo on the top.
But it wasn't red.
You would think that a company called RedHat would send you a Hat, and it would be Red, right? That has me wondering if there's a new subversive element at RedHat, working from within, with the final intent to morph RedHat into, yes, you got it, BlackHat!
-- "The mind is a terrible thing to, um, uh, oh bollocks." -- Me
I personally do basic installs and compile most things from source, trying to keep them up to date, but I can only pay attention to so much. It's nice to upgrade to a new version of a distribution simply because it covers all the bases you don't have the time to cover. You could watch freshmeat, but things are posted so fast, it takes a bit of effort just to keep up. Aside from covering the bases, having prepackaged distributions allow software distributers to package pre-compiled (or source files) for standard, expected sets of libraries, allowing for the most painless installs/compiles. And probably the most important point is that many newcomers don't upgrade on a package by package basis and NEED everything nice and packaged before they upgrade.
On a slightly tangent point, I hate rpm too, does any distribution have a really good packaging system? I like to both compile from source and install to separate directories for larger programs, yet not get my path all mangled. I like tar balls and stow, but some programs aren't nice and put things where they don't belong anyway, so some files may belong to an unknown packge, because it is not RPM, and it is not in a stow tree (which makes me mad...)
-- XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Re:dumbest thing I heard this week
by
Zurk
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· Score: 1
These guys are all trolls. forget em. on #linuxhelp which is the only help channel that really matters, no one is kicked out for a dumb question. and we get hundreds of newbies. all of us help out as best we can. and very few of us tell em to RTFM. The newbie crowd is only going to go to friendly channels...thats one reason efnet has been dumped and everyones switched to irc.linux.com....
This is obligatory, I think..
by
legoboy
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· Score: 1
Why is RedHat only using Linux 6.2, when both Slackware and Mandrake use Linux 7.0?
I use Linux 7.0 from Slackware. (amazingly simple install, btw) Who needs this old fashioned Linux 6.x stuff?
------
-- If a tree falls on an anonymous coward yelling 'first post' in the forest, does anybody hear?
Re:This is obligatory, I think..
by
Mr.+Penguin
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· Score: 2
Dude, Linux in all of the versions that you mentioned above is 2.2.x. That's the kernel version. Each distribution has versioning numbers of their own. The only distribution that really makes sense with the version numbering is Caldera (but that doesn't give any good reason to actually use that, though), who numbers their distros based on the Linux kernel number.
When people say Linux, they are typically referring to a distribution, a group of files already compiled and packaged with the kernel, which makes everything run. Actually, Linux is just the kernel (vmlinux-* or vmlinuz-* that sits in your/boot directory). Read a HOWTO from The LDP for more information.
Brad Johnson --We are the Music Makers, and we are the Dreamers of Dreams
I used to handle documentation for ISO certification and in order for a manufacturing plant to keep getting ISO's stamp of approval. Evidently ISO just maintains that you follow certain guidelines and pay them huge amounts of cash for adhering to their standards, and in return you get an ISO cert that tells other companies you document your procedures. It's nearly pointless, however, once you realize the following. You could build an air conditioning unit from Legos and twine, and whether it actually works or not is irrelevant to ISO. As long as you have documentation stating specifically HOW you build it you'll get certified. ISO 9000-9002 certs are all about docs, and little else.
I'm one of those that uses linux. Not plays with it. Just uses it.
I've been running suse because it is easy. More and more I am finding software I need has been tuned for red hat. I just killed my laptop *again* and it is a good time to jump ship.
Where can I find info for red hat 6.2 similiar to what is right at the top of the page at http://www.suse.com/ Easy links to what is new and what has changed, in addition to the full package list you mentioned.
How does red hat compare to suse in usability? I have come to rely very heavily on yast and I am worried about what will happen if I lose that crutch.
Is there really a "Laptop System" install in redhat-6.2? I haven't seen one in the redhat-6.2de beta version.
Re:I feel compelled to post
by
ffatTony
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· Score: 1
As a 1 year user of linux i feel compelled to tell you... I too find such bashing annoying, although I do not use redhat (I'm a debian fan)... that you sound really perturbed and I guarantee that by changing your Slashdot threshold to 2 or even 3 your life will be much less stressful. Slashdot does not represent the linux community, sadly it seems to be mostly newer/immature users.
As an aside, I can't understand why anyone would be afraid of the command line. It is so much more productive then annoying GUI tools.
just so you know, I count 45 buggy packages in debian slink, thus it is by no mean perfect, if by perfect you mean mistake free. It is perfect however, if you're speaking of the state of mind free software and a totally free ( read non-profit) distro creates.
Offtopic, what kind of a script?
by
ffatTony
·
· Score: 1
How do you install your debs on a regular basis?? I'd like to do a simliar kind of thing but I'm a little fearful of using apt-get's -y (say yes to everything) option which is what I assume your script does.
If you script does something more miraculous than this, could you post it? or send it my way? thanks
Why's that been moderated down as a troll? The guy's only pointing out that we've had two stories on Red Hat 6.2 in two days ("Red Hat 6.2 about to be released" and "Red Hat 6.2 released"). I personally think that the 'about to be released' story was completely unnecessary, but Slashdot's been posting a lot of these 'non-software announcements' recently. I wish they'd only post software announcements when there's something REAL to announce.
HH
Yellow tigers crouched in jungles in her dark eyes.
-- Yellow tigers crouched in jungles in her dark eyes. She's just dressing, goodbye windows, tired starlings.
I, for one, think both stories were useful. After all, the "about to be released" story let me know that it was hitting mirror sites as we speak. As a consequence, I was able to get my copy before (almost) anyone else, and it's already burned to a CD-R here. Today, I'm getting 10-15KBytes/sec trying to download the SRPMS ISO from download.sourceforge.net, the same site I used yesterday to get the i386 ISO. It's been pretty well slashdotted, hitting its 1000 user anonymous limit and exhausting its available bandwidth.
From this story I got to find out just what to expect from 6.2 and there are a lot of cool new features (see above). ---
-- How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
It is somewhat annoying that there exists such a rabid vocal linux following. Just because you disagree, you have to become insulting, this kind of attitude only hurts all of us that would like to see wider adoption of linux and other free software. Surprisingly most of the REAL linux users I know don't like talking about the dist they use, they realize that no one dist is best for everyone, or even every application, and all the major dists are of relatively high quality. I really hope that outspoken rude people like yourself remain the miniscule minority that the rest of us can politely ignore.
Try reading the advocacy howto, you need it more then most.
as usual, the maintainers of the mirrors are lazy and grabbed everything but the iso's.. redhat.com as them.. and as usual you can't get to redhat's site.. every other site has nothing in it's iso directory or just has redhat-6.2 with no read permission.. figures.. i'm flying in 3 hours and wanted to throw it up before i leave.
ISO 9660, the base filesystem for CD-ROM's. Filenames are limited to 8.3, and all that lovely DOS-ian stuff. However, Rock Ridge Extention (used mainly by *nix) and M$'s Joliet extention add things like longfilenames and such.
In this case, the posters are looking for ISO 9660 CD Image of the bloody things.
you can still use the text install... just type "text" when the cd first boots (like it says to)
In text 6.1 installs you can't see the package summaries. I was glad I had been using Redhat for a while when I went to install 6.1 on an old Pentium and for some reason the installer didn't see the S3 ViRGE card on the box and went into text mode. Someone who hasn't installed Redhat before would have no idea what some of the packages do without a summary. I installed Mandrake on a machine a while back, and I had to look at dozens of packages summaries trying to figure out what I needed.
I actually thought that/. did post something on that topic... but a quick search proved that you were indeed right, Mr. Coward. Postings of Caldera Linux since January have been limited to IPO news.
Of course, that might be caused by two factors: 1) RH is much more widely used, therefore the news is more more "newsworthy" when RH gets updated (I personally care more because I use it, and not OpenLinux) and 2)/. works by submissions, if nobody posted that as a good article, it wouldn't have been posted. Anybody out there post the eServer or eDesktop as a new submission when the news broke?
As for the reiablility of/. as a news source, I figure they are not perfect, but pretty darned good. How do other large companies deal with this: I know ABC has a policy of not reporting on Disney Corp because of the conflict of interest. And Microsoft (MSNBC, Slate) always puts disclaimers of bias when they report on themselves, and are eager to post news of competitors to avoid the impression of being oppressively biased. While other companies... from Viacom to VA Linux to AOL Time Warner, make no reference at all to cross-ownership. Which is best? Probably the best policy is to report the bias (a la MSNBC) and err on the side of caution by aggressively reporting news of competitors.
(I guess that's why I get my Linux news ELSEWHERE...)
One might assume that you get some of your news from/., because you had to visit the site in order to make a posting!
--
-rt- ** Evil Canadians are taking over the world. Learn about the conspiracy
Actually, this version of Red Hat asks you just that. It's quite customizable. It'll ask you if you want a GNOME workstation, a KDE workstation, an AfterStep workstation, a server, or custom. I haven't tried out all the different installs. I'm guessing the server install leaves a lot of the eyecandy and other multimedia stuff out.
Until about RH 5.2 you could actually do a network install (FTP or NFS). I wonder why they stopped doing that. Now you have to make a custom boot disk, which is annoying, but not disasterous.
I don't know why you say that it's hard to keep track of what's where, because RPM is extremely powerful. You can ask any file from what package it came from, and then remove that package if you want. You can see what files belong to a package and exactly where it's gonna put them during the install. During the install you can select exactly which packages you want and each package has information on what it does. I always look for RPMs of programs before tar.gz files, just because I think make install is messy, and some make files don't have make uninstall in them (yeah, I should've looked at the makefile first). And I don't enough about coding to want to read through the source code looking for malicious code, so I usually just install the binaries from RPMs, which are plentyful on the web.
I don't know which things about NFS you had problems with. Of all the Linux systems I'm on, it works quite allright. It's sometimes a little flakey if there's still stuff running when you try to umount, but that can be fixed with the right options.
It sounds like you're the kind of person who'd find the 'custom' option during the install useful, and select which RPMs you install. I really doubt that it'd be easier to make install all the packages then still have to configure them, and make sure they are put in the right runlevels.
Tomorrow BeOS R5 comes out and it is going to be a very good one. I gave up on Linux because I got sick of always referring to Howto's to do something as simple as setup a PPP connection. I like Linux and wish ya'll the best of luck but Linux is nowhere near as fun to play around with and use, at least for me, as BeOS. Linux makes a great server, BeOS a great desktop/workstation.
Hear, Hear! Check out my website as soon as R5 is released - I'm gonna mirror it. And there is one more thing that I really don't get - don't you people ever get TIRED of reinstalling Linux all the time? It's like running Windows... I installed Mandrake 6.2 a while ago and I've upgraded my way ever sience...
-- --
http://z80.org - all opinions, all the time
--
Re:Background re Loopback File?
by
Benley
·
· Score: 1
What this means is that it is now possible to add another layer of slowness beneath your ext2fs partition - namely, fat32. While it will be convenient to use this to try out Linux for the first time, if one is scared of the "always-scary fips/fdisk repartitioning", the problem becomes "damn, Linux is slow! Especially when you do stuff with the disk! My good ol' Windowz 98 is way faster, I'm sticking with it."
In other words, this is the same thing as how you can mount an ISO image as a filesystem.
Now it's time for me to go to yet another CS lecture and have the concept of recursion thrown at me for the umpteenth time...
* Here is the Main FTP and some Mirrors *
by
Giraffe
·
· Score: 1
Yes, this is real, I infact sent a submission to./'s team of submission monkeys with aibo inplants that enable them to sort through the masses of articles... or not.:) Anyways, yes, its real, Here is the main ftp site and a mirror that has it. - Red Hat's FTP Site - Metalabs Mirror for the files, I ust burned a copy of it for mysel, and even installed it, the SPARC version, and it works great. Good Luck.
Re:Red Hat 6.2 Officially Released
by
Giraffe
·
· Score: 1
Right on. The whole "lets skip 9 versions" bit is lame. If your going make a distro, you should follow the versions as the other do. Next thing you know, it will be Mandrake 2001, or even worse, Mandrake 2000 Millenium Edition.;) Keep The Versions Sequential.
ahh, i wasn't aware that option was taken out, oh well, 3.3.6 is still more stable and has crisper text than 4.0 for me:P
did anyone fail to mention....
by
solace
·
· Score: 1
that RH 6.2 automatically installs the sblive driver w/o configuring? i didn't even know, i booted up, and saw (loading sound module (emu10k1). works marvelous, not sure what build they based it on, but if its not broke don't fix it. i have ot say, RH 6.2 was a marvelous install, especially over 6.1's mishandled graphical installer. bash RH all you will, but 6.2 is a very nice release, and will be on my machine for quite sometime. as for xf86-4 not making it, 3.3.6 lets me use 32 bit w/ my TNT2, but 4 only lets me use 24, so i'll stick w/ it for now. kudos to RH on a very very nice release/me gears up to d/l beos 5 and suse 6.4 in the next few hours:)
WARNING - THE PRECEDING POST IS AN ATTEMPT AT HUMOR. ANY RESEMBLANCE TO FLAMEBAIT IS PURELY COINCIDENTAL.
I find it rather interesting that humor often has to be labelled as such before it's taken as such. Doesn't this contradict the whole point of humor? I mean, isn't something dreadfully wrong with a joke if you've to specifically inform others that it's a joke? Or perhaps the statement that it's a joke is the punch line:-)
I keep saying I'll switch from Red Hat to Debian as soon as Debian finishes its updated distribution. However, It looks like the packages on RH 6.2 are about on par with the versions on Debian 2.2, and RH 6.2 is now full release.
Any idea when Debian 2.2 is suppoed to be final? It's been frozen for months...
I'm using Debian on my laptop and love it. My only beef? For CRYING out loud, release potato!!;-P
-- -- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
Trying to download 6.2 over M$ Proxy server
by
FirstNoel
·
· Score: 1
I want to download the RH 6.2, but I'm running into some problems.
Work uses Microsoft Proxy server, and I can't get the FTP programs (WS_FTP) to connect outside of our LAN, (our local admin says it the M$ proxy incompatability, I don't know enough about it to question ).
I can connect to the Metalabs through the internet browser though. so at the moment the only way I can download 6.2 is to point and click my way through ALL the files.
I'm not a network admin so I'm kinda restricted in what I can do.
If anyone knows of a FTP program that works with MS Proxy software or if there is a massive ZIP file somewhere I could download, I'd appreciate it.
-- "Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
Re:Trying to download 6.2 over M$ Proxy server
by
ClayJar
·
· Score: 1
Be sure to set passive (PASV) mode transfers in WS_FTP. It seems to be necessary for some things with MS Proxy (I should remember, but I'm late for lunch). Of course, I make no guarantees.
Re:Trying to download 6.2 over M$ Proxy server
by
mdillon
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· Score: 3
XFree 4.0 and 24/32bpp
by
Gandalf_007
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· Score: 1
You're mistaken. XFree86 no longer has a 32bpp mode on any graphics card--use 24. It still has the full transparency etc. etc. (Netscape isn't b/w in 24bpp anymore!), but it's 24bpp, I guess kinda like windoze w/ 8, 16, 24 bpp...
--
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Somebody with redhat shares probably thought slashdot payed to much attention to slackware lately (keep up the good work!!!!!).....
Grtz, Jeroen
-- Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
Re:dumbest thing I heard this week
by
pe1rxq
·
· Score: 1
Red Hat is dead! Long live Slackware!!!! I don't like RedHat either but I think everybody should be free to choose. I do agree that most of the people that are really doing something with their linux systems (This doesn't have to be kernel programming) that I know are NOT using RedHat. Grtz, Jeroen
I went and ordered my copy... I have a 768K DSL line so I could easily download it. But I really would like to support their pricing. I would also like to see them sell a Million copies faster than Windows2K....
Gnome Rocks!
-- I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress -J Adams
Do you really think they would release anything without some testing. They didn't create the ISO just this weekend to release it rightaway. You don't wanna release something with very silly bugs, so you test it first. gr, cageman
you bloody troll you. they contribute ease of use = more users = more potential contributors.
Re:let me guess, you're a C programmer?
by
tmoon
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· Score: 1
(1)ease of use+tech support=less trouble for newbies
(1a) less trouble for newbies = more newbies (2)more newbies =less newbies asking dumb questions EVERYWHERE (3)Equation solution: it is *you* who is saying bullshit.
yeah, more stupid questions everywhere including your dumba$$ irc channel, but I think RH is banking that they'll look for better help on their support plans. The free CD is a way of increasing support sales. It's all in "The Cathedral and the Bazaar", dude.
Re:Vampires and bloodsuckers
by
clare-ents
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· Score: 1
>Why pay for it? I run redhat 6.0 at home, I didn't pay for it, I copied the CD from a friend (who I think originally downloaded it). However, now we need a linux machine at work. We will buy a copy of RedHat and probably a support contract too. Why, because my Redhat CD has been distributed at work for people to play with on their home computers. Consequently, I now feel more than happy that I have 'paid' for my copy of RedHat simply by encouraging my company to buy a copy.
-- Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. (Einstein)
Re:What about XFree 4.0 ???
by
zcdill
·
· Score: 1
I don't find it suprizing at all. 6.2 has been beta a little before X4.0, therefore no inclusion. And I would think if it were before they probably wouldn't have included it because it really hasn't been *tested* for all possible instabilities. RedHat kinda prides themselves on being a stable server distro, and having something that new and untested wouldn't be too kosher I would think.
Although it woulda been cool if they had done an asked install a la SuSe...
-bugbbq
Re:Typical. Just typical.
by
green+pizza
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· Score: 1
Have them work with Solaris 8 x86. Need a faster box? Upgrade to an Ultra 80... or an Enterprise 10000! =)
It sounds like you want BSD:-). It is much more minimalistic. I too am of the opinion that a base OS is good, I can use the bsd ports collection to install what I need to make the system completely functional (tcsh, zsh, etc).
As for NFS, linux has improved NFS a lot. I still don't like it as much as *BSD's nfs, but it is much better than it used to be.
If RH were just interested in money, they'll ship KDE as the default desktop, instead of GNOME. When they've begin to support GNOME, it was just a full-bugged prebetaversion. KDE's still more complete. Mandrake became one of the 5 major players by just reimplacing GNOME by KDE in an otherwise standard RedHat (*now*, they have an independant distros).
RH took a risk by promotting GNOME, and strongly supporting it, and it was obviously to help an Open Source project. And now that GNOME is a fairly stable and much promising desktop, one part of the thanks should go to the RH labs.
You can't say they're just a bunch of cynical businessmen; if it was the case, they would work for MS.
Finally, you could use a RedHat without giving any kopek to RH. You can download, buy a book or a magazine which ship a CD, use a CD of someone else, download from any mirror. No money to RH.
-- sigmentation fault
Re:dumbest thing I heard this week
by
GeZ117
·
· Score: 1
(1)ease of use+tech support=less trouble for newbies
(2)less trouble for newbies=less newbies asking on guru's IRC
(3)Equation solution: you're saying bullshit.
-- sigmentation fault
Re:dumbest thing I heard this week
by
GeZ117
·
· Score: 1
I'm always surprised that all these so-called guru, so despiding for newbies, are all flaming trolls posting as Anonymous Coward.
Now, use your brain: Linux is more and more an hot stuff. The word "linux" is being printed on more and more reviews everywhere. So, a lots of wannabe-former MS-users are interesting themselves in this so-wonderful-so-powerful-so-stable-sogreat OS. This is not by spitting on RedHat that you will prevent newbies from wanting to use Linux. So, whatever you say, you WILL see hords of clueless newbie wandering around, looking for help for something or some other. What RedHat, Mandrake, SuSE, Corel and other brings is a easy to handle Linux, which will reduce the amount of question by being shipped with tech-support, manual and tutorial.
You're not forced to like that, but you can't deny the fact. The situation is a bit similar to the beginning of Internet for the mass: precious bandswith being wasted by net-newbies downloading porn (oh, but I forget, you troll-guru-lamers also need porn to compensate the fact they will never be able to seduce a girl). But there are also advantages to the new situation, advantages that your short mindedness will prevent you from seeing, like the fact that fresh blood is essential for an OS not to die.
-- sigmentation fault
And you, a Visual Basic programmer?
by
GeZ117
·
· Score: 1
less trouble for newbie!=more newbie.
more hype for Linux==more newbie.
People won't be attracted to Linux because it's now esay to install and to use. They will install it because everyone tell them no more to use Bill Brother's Window$ (hum, I havn't inserted enough dollar sign). They will install them because everyone tell them: it's free, it's fast, it's fun. Then, they will buy a RH or a Corel, and read manual and call hotlines. Some despising troll-guru-wannabe will download a slackware or a debian, won't undesrtand anything, will pollute IRC, and one or two years laters, once they've get it, will flame any newbie that pass by.
Don't whine because you've got the latest version minus 0.1... I remember a full-bugged 6.0, and a pretty stable 6.1. Who can say right now if 6.2 will be more stable than the previous?
And well, RH have now an update service, no? There are in Mandrake, Corel, and other I'm forgetting.
Monday, March 27th 2000 Red Hat version 6.2 and Red Hat's 4th quarter report are released on the SAME DAY.
Coincidence do ya think? At least they did not lose as much money as Wall Street predicted. Check out http://www.cbs.marketwatch.com and do a stock symbol search on RHAT for all the details.
Re:Woop de do da (pro RH version)
by
yankeehack
·
· Score: 1
Anonymous Coward, I appreciate your musings but you have managed to contradict yourself in your short little rant. You first argue that "Adding all of these extras to allow people with no clue to about running Linux...[will]compromise the features that make it better than Windows" and later you go on to say that "Linux is for the people". Huh? I guess Linux is for people as savvy as you are?
First, I think that a large majority of the anti RH posters here need to get a great big gulp of the REAL WORLD. Not everyone on this planet with a PC has the time or the resources to go compiling kernels, downloading apps, etc. (I know that might make YOU excited to do that sort of stuff, however...) If RH can give me a solid distribution with support thrown in, that saves ME time.
Secondly, LINUX purity comes at a price folks. I agree that RH isn't the most technologically challenging software I've ever seen, but I think its way more important to bring "sucking air newbies" into the fold. For those of you who have jobs dealing with technologically inept people, I think you'll agree. Especially when A)99% of the PC users out there don't have a clue, B)these 99% are in all reality more wealthy than you, C)some of the 99% will be the decisionmakers (like your friendly IT manager) you will have to convince that LINUX is a good thing.
Will bringing in new users compromise the OS? I doubt it, as I am an IT instructor and have noticed that most people take what they are learning at face value. If it takes keystrokes or menu items to get something accomplished, it can be taught.
It's a good thing to debate amongst other geeks, but it isn't worth getting hysterical ABOUT A DISTRIBUTION.
Installed 6.2 yesterday via FTP, everything went fine. But when i rebooted the install it somehow failed to load my ethernet module.. i was forced to do a manual configuration afterwards to get it to work. I didn't have to do this in RH6.1.. is this a bug or what?
I can't help but notice that this is a good time for a release. Windows 2000 has just been released, but isn't living up to reliability expectations (I hear it's blue screening left and right). However, a new, more stable Linux (an OS with a knack for reliability already) is being released with a new, more diversified, line of server software in the distribution(as always). Windows 2000 is also incompatable with lots of older programs (DOS legacy problems due to it's NT roots), and upgrades are looking extremely costly. And with that lawsuit hanging over their heads, this is trouble for Microsoft...though not the end by a long shot. They will just cling onto the client end of client-server...
Red Hats first two release always suck shit. 6.0 was a disaster, 6.1 was a little better. Maybe now they've sorted everything out. Just like with 5.0-5.2.
Why do people find a new release of a distribution so exciting when virtually all the software it contains has probably been freely available for several months? If I want to upgrade something on my system, I download the source, compile it and install (I hate RPM's). Why wait several months to install all the fixes in one go, when you could have fixed them many weeks before?
Now weary traveller, rest your head. For just like me, you're utterly dead.
You're absolutely right about that - Linux-the-OS is not a distribution thing, it's a "set of package versions" thing.
I can't abide this slow release idea, where to upgrade you invariably end up rebooting (often only to start the upgrade) and fixing broken packages / dependencies and so on. Heck, if I wanted *that* I'd run MacOS!;)
Shamless plug: this is why I live at the cutting edge of Debian 'unstable' (currently known as 'woody'). I maintain a local mirror of all the packages I have installed, automatically updating itself at 0317hrs every night, and I upgrade the whole distribution at a stroke every day. Of course, it costs - I had to 'fix' some emacs problem today, but for the privilege of watching libc6 upgrade itself while still running X... anything goes:)
Then again, sometimes I think, maybe not everyone is like me. (Maybe they're grateful for small mercies, too.)
-- ~Tim
-- .|` Clouds cross the black moonlight,
Rushing on down to the circle of the turn
Something/. posters seems to forget is that *NOT* everyone has (free an unlimited) Internet Access. Some haven't even access. Those pitiful lamers who can't afford huge phone bills (another thing most/. aren't aware: there are countries on the world where local communications aren't free (as in costless)). These guys need a CD (or about 2 or 3 kg of floppies) to install the nearly-latest version of the softs they uses.
And another advantages of a distro is that (if the distromaker do properly his job) new versions of all utils on the system (it's sometimes boring to consult 87-or-more homepages to look for a new version of something to install).
-- sigmentation fault
Re:Why is this exciting?
by
Chuck+Milam
·
· Score: 5
If I want to upgrade something on my system, I download the source, compile it and install (I hate RPM's). Why wait several months to install all the fixes in one go, when you could have fixed them many weeks before?
Because not everyone is running a single-user system with the time to waste in the "search, download, tweak, compile, repeat" process. Those of us who use Linux as a tool (not a toy) enjoy the idea of being able to drop in a CD and have a relatively up-to-date system without the hassle of having to do it by hand. In a university environment, where good help is almost impossible to find, CD distros and RPMS are a life-saver:
It's a lot easier for me to say to a student assistant: "Upgrade the gcc RPMs on the Computer Science cluster" rather than "Download the GCC tarball, and compile it? What's that? Configure options? Here...do this. Hmm--dependecy problems. Ok, you fix it this way... Another question? Ok, here, I'll just have to do it myself, since we needed this done last week."
Also, RPMs are great for ansering the "what the heck is that file doing there?" question.
When I only had my home Linux box to play with, I used to be a "source tarball, compile your own is the only way!" guy. Then I started using Linux at work. There's a big difference when you have to manage multiple machines and users. Suddenly, RPMs don't seem so bad at all...
I mostly agree with you, except that I have been using Linux for 2 years (not much above your 18 months limit) starting with RedHat 5.0, and feel insulted
It simply is the best distro as far as I am concerned. But then I never used any other distro nor do I care to do it nor do I care if they all cease instantly to exist.
RedHat has been an excellent distro for me and being on their watch-list means that I know about updates and security holes and have access (free) to their update site (sometimes laggy but they all are when you have a 33.6 modem).
You must however understand that in the group of RedHat bashers you will find "offended virgins" who don't like the "commercial aspect" of RedHat (in truth their success) but would still buy Suse/Slackware (the first a real commercial thing, the second the first commercial and failing Linux company), or even worse Mandrake/Macmillan/Joe Schmuck (all redhat-based) distros.
Oh but I forgot, they are better RedHat than RedHat, when all Mandrake did was recompile packages for pentium machines. Dammit guys, there is a CD with src.rpms on any RedHat distro and yes you can all recompile them (it will take less time than waiting for your Mandrake).
There are also the elitists who don't like RedHat because so many people use it. These people will be the first to leave Linux when it really reaches world-domination and would maybe go with Hurd (DUH!) or *BSD*, *BeOS* (but then they'll bitch about GPL and hail NOT GPL).
These folks would even support Windows if it was on the loosing side, believe me.
While waiting for this to happen, have fun with this new release. I am gonna buy my copy as soon as I can.
Peace and NO I don't have shares in RedHat nor do I work for RedHat nor am I going to an interview for a job at RedHat nor do I have plans to do so.
-- The kernel needs a Gtk/Gnome-based post-install device configuration tools
"a la" make xconfig. (Better sig coming soon
Re:Vampires and bloodsuckers
by
rakjr
·
· Score: 2
Why pay for it?
Because the truth is free beer is not free. It costs money to for the ingredients, for maintaining the still, and it takes an individual's time which is worth something. There are many who just take from the community and think, "this is great! software for nothing." This is a braindead mentality.
Some companies, like RedHat, make their money in support and training. If you plan to $$ support them via this avenue, then by all means accept their free stuff. But, they are not the only type of company out there. There are also gaming companies (which I do not think are going to make a killing in support and training). Maybe they have sponsor companies, in which case, it is not free software, it is a link to advertisement.
There are other ways of contributing to the community, i.e. producing worthwhile code, but this does not mean you should still not pay to support what you find valuable to use. My point is if all you do is take from the community, you are no more than a vampire and a bloodsucker. I personally choose to buy a distro once per major modification (i.e. going from 2.0 to 2.2, inclusion of X version 4.0 will be worth it) because though I may be able to patch and compile my way there, I would prefer to spend my time doing more cost effective things.
Please note, I am not calling the poster of this comment a vampire or bloodsucker, I do not know the individual's involvement with the community, the post is addressing the question, "Why pay for it?"
P.S. - Yes, I bought a linux version of Quake III.
-- In a place beyond time and space, in a land far better than
this, look for me there...
Well... I can't speak for everyone, of course. But I can speak for myself, and this is why I am going to pay for it.
I am on a 28.8 dial-up. I have no interest in waiting hours and hours to download it. I will pay for the convenience of avoiding that.
I like little things, such as the books that come with it, the fact that it will come with boot disks, so I don't have to rawrite my own. I will pay for the paper and the convenience of having little details taken care of for me.
Most importantly, I want to give back to the community. I will pay so they can pay developers to help give us more great stuff.
That's why I will pay for it.
-- It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it. - Sean
-- It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Re:A little too much?
by
Black+Parrot
·
· Score: 2
Don't you think 2 stories on redhat 6.2 is a little bit of overkill. First it is a . release, and second I haven't seen or heard of any wildly revolutionary changes that even make this noteworthy.
Should we compare it to Win2K, which has treated us to four years of news stories and blowhard press releases, finally to ship without all the promised features?
At least Red Hat 6.2 hit/. because it's news (rather than vapour), and it gets discussed because some of us are interested in it (rather than because someone had enough money to buy a multi-page spread in the New York Times).
--
-- Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Apparent Improvement in Security At least
by
The+Infamous+TommyD
·
· Score: 2
- Workstation installs no longer install networking daemons
- Many system daemons turned off by default
One or two traditional unices tried this at some point and were chastised by users for it. I can't wait to install 6.2 to see what it enables by default. This is a big security win for newbies and other clueless installers.
Noticed the included kerberos stuff, that's nice too, but I wonder if openssh is included.
Re:Apparent Improvement in Security At least
by
Menthos
·
· Score: 2
OpenSSH is not included (because it requires OpenSSL) due to the stupidity of the RSA patent in the US. See Beros comment yesterday for a link to RPMs made outside the US.
--
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
Re:Red Hat 6.2 Officially Released
by
Bishop282
·
· Score: 2
I had not noticed. Thank you for pointing it out. It brightened my day.
Global Exports of Commercial Encryption Source Code and Toolkits
Encryption source code which is available to the public and which is subject to an express agreement for the payment of a licensing fee or royalty for commercial production or sale of any product developed using the source code (such as "community source" code) may be exported under a license exception to any end-user without a technical review. At the time of export, the exporter must submit to the Bureau of Export Administration a copy of the source code, or a written notification of its Internet address. All other source code can be exported after a technical review to any non-government end-user. U.S. exporters may have to provide general information on foreign products developed for commercial sale using commercial source code, but foreign products developed using U.S.-origin source code or toolkits do not require a technical review.
so, open-source projects don't need licensing. But netscape is not open source. They probably did a one-time techincal review for that :
Global exports to individuals, commercial firms or other non-government end-users
Any encryption commodity or software, including components, of any key length can now be exported under a license exception after a technical review to any non-government end-user in any country except for the seven state supporters of terrorism. Exports previously allowed only for a company's internal use can now be used for any activity, including communication with other firms, supply chains and customers. Previous liberalizations for banks, financial institutions and other approved sectors are continued and subsumed under the license exception. Exports to government end-users may be approved under a license.
I'm surprised that noone has mentioned that, once again, Red Hat is shipping a kernel version that doesn't really exist. I don't have any objections to Red Hat adding code to the kernel (so long as the chnages are open source), but they shouldn't be declaring their own kernel versions.
Well, as the previous poster pointed out, you can install it under a FAT partition, but the other nice feature is that you don't have to use disk druid or fdisk if you don't want to during the install. It'll make a default partitioning which has swap space,/boot (of about 20 megs) and / (takes whatever else is left). Useful if you're lazy or not familiar with partitioning.
Re:Red Hat 6.2 Officially Released
by
GeZ117
·
· Score: 2
Mandrake 7.0 was numbered 7.0 because it was a major release: the first "pure" Mandrake (not based on RH anymore), the first with a fully graphical install (DrakX, diskDrake, etc).
Mandrake 7.0 was not just a Mandrake 6.1 with one or two package version upgraded, so it was logical to considere it a whole new version.
On the other hand, RH6.2 is just a lightly improved RH6.1, and RedHat honestly labeled it as such. I don't think Mandrake or any other distromaker will adopt a year-based version number, they let it to EA Sports games and MS.
-- sigmentation fault
Re:A little too much?
by
Jon+Peterson
·
· Score: 3
Shovelware
Shovelware is a bad thing, and it's a whole lot worse when you start shoveling server apps. It means that:
1. People run software that is not a best-fit because it works and it happens to be on the CD.
2. People run software that they don't understand and might be unsecure simply because it's there.
I can't think of anything worse than pre-installing Apache as a default web server. It's very big, very complicated and probably unecessary. Next you'll be telling me that the OS uses it to display help files or run some CGI based configuration utility.
This simply re-inforces my notion that someone REALLY should split a Linux distro into server, workstation and home user builds. If you want to shovel on 20 different CD-player apps so the desktop user can choose the one with the most eye-candy that's just fine but for God's sake I wish they'd stop doing it with daemons.
If I'm building a server, whatever OS it is, I do not want anything but the most essential (syslog, etc) services installed for me. I don't even want to have to de-select them on a setup screen. Actually I don't even want a setup screen - I want to build servers from my own install server over the network ala Solaris Jumpstart.
We all made/make fun of MS for building a Server with a GUI - hell most Linux distro's ship SEVERAL GUIs these days. Sure you can take them off but as a server admin why the hell should I spend hours removing garbage from distributions?
I used to work with Linux all the time, but now that I work with Solaris I can't say I miss it much. I'd rather spend time adding gcc, bash and friends to a Solaris box than removing Python and stuff from a Red Hat box.
It's easy to keep track of what you add, where you add it and when. It's very hard to keep track of what you've forgotten to remove because you don't know where it was put in the first place.
I tell you, the first distro that stops arsing about with 3D graphics support and actually fixes NFS* and creates a nice automatic network install system will get my support.
*Unless they've fixed NFS in Linux already - used to be a big weak point when I used it.
-- -----.sig: file not found
Typical. Just typical.
by
Mr.+Neutron
·
· Score: 3
I'm a desktop support guy (and CS major) for Professional and Technical Education in the IT department at the University of Wisconsin. They decided to let me teach a class, which begins tomorrow. The class is on installing and configuring Red Hat Linux.
Version 6.1.
--
-- dinner: it's what's for beer
Re:Typical. Just typical.
by
Bad+Mojo
·
· Score: 4
As a teacher, and important lesson you have the chance to teach is "A greater version number does not make a product greater."
Get your students to leave their MS centric ideas at home and concentrate on running good software that gets upgraded for a reason.
Maybe you can end the class with doing an upgrade to 6.2 and showing how easy it can be?
Just some ideas from a teacher-wanna-be.
Bad Mojo
-- Bad Mojo "If you can't win by reason, go for volume." -- Calvin
Well, according to their website, it now includes apache and sendmail... isn't that revolutionary?:-)
I realise that you are speaking with tongue in cheek, but this point is worth making anyway:
To us? Of course this isn't revolutionary. You must remember, however, that both Apache and Sendmail have been receiving a lot of press at the moment (at least, they have in the journals I am subscribed to). It would appear that RH are ensuring that 6.2 will be noticed by those PHBs who have heard of Apache and Sendmail - "Hey, Linux, Apache *AND* Sendmail in one package - must try that".
The thing which interests me though is the partionless installation - I can't seem to find any details about that. What is it? Why does the cynic in me think it just means it sorts out all your partitions for you, but that they still exist?
Anyways, a new Linux release is always good for the community, so raise your glasses ladies and gentlemen.....
- Encryption now included! Now that the US more closely resembles a free country, all versions of Red Hat Linux include:
o Kerberos authentication for mutt, pine, fetchmail, cvs, and imap. In addition, the following kerberos-aware versions of the following clients have been added:
o Kerboros network clients included for rlogin, rsh, telnet, ftp in krb5-workstation package
o GNOME-based Kerberos configuration tools added
o GNU Privacy Guard (gpg) included
o Netscape with 128-bit encryption included
Ok, what did I miss? Was there legislation that was passed that totally opened up the encryption issue, or did Redhat get licensing from the commerse dept. for these products? I thought things like 128-bit Netscape were still illegal to export. If not, this is great news! Someone please fill me in.;)
The partitionless install means that you don't have to partition your system for ext2 - it installs to a big file in a FAT partition via loopback. It's mostly for people who want to try Linux without the risk of repartitioning their system.
Once again Microsoft has demonstrated their superiority in software development and versioning. How could Linux possibly compete against Microsoft when their consumer operating system is version 98 and their server operating system is all the way to to 2000.
With that many versions, they probably don't have any bugs left at all !!! To think people would actually waste their time fixing all the bugs in a 6.2 release. Even Mandrake and Slackware are only up to 7.0.
And Enlightenment, they're not even up to version 1.0 yet! There's probably not even any code to run.
You Linux folks never cease to amaze me.
WARNING - THE PRECEDING POST IS AN ATTEMPT AT HUMOR. ANY RESEMBLANCE TO FLAMEBAIT IS PURELY COINCIDENTAL.
Re:Red Hat 6.2 Officially Released
by
KaosDG
·
· Score: 3
Am I the only one that noticed that this is a Haiku?
Very nice. Creative. 8-)
-- "Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair...
Fuzzy Wuzzy wasn't fuzzy was he?"
Debian Backspace Guidelines
by
Michael+Duggan
·
· Score: 3
Well, you see, you're wrong. Red Hat, debian, slackware, and others have contributed lots of code and typically hire developers to work on products. Red Hat has been a big supporter of gnome, among other things. At the very least they've done lots of good work on install programs. Have you ever tried installing Linux using a cross-compiler? Not fun. Try downloading all the sources and using an NT cross-compiler and see if you can build a linux system. It's non-trivial to say the least. Much easier to install Red Hat, Slackware, or any other distribution.
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:45:54 -0500 (EST) From: Erik Troan Reply-To: zoot-list@redhat.com To: redhat-announce-list@redhat.com, COLA submissions Subject: Red Hat Linux 6.2 (Zoot) now available! Resent-Date: 27 Mar 2000 13:46:45 -0000 Resent-From: redhat-announce-list@redhat.com Resent-cc: recipient list not shown: ;
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Red Hat is happy to announce the immediate availability of Red Hat Linux 6.2, Zoot, for the ia32 and SPARC platforms (Alpha is coming, really), with support for French, German, Spanish, and Italian.
You can get your hands on Zoot in many different ways:
1. ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/redhat-6.2 2. Order one of our many boxed set editions from www.redhat.com (shipping April 10) 3. Buy it at a retail outlet (available April 10) 4. Download from one of our many mirror sites. The following mirrors are known to be complete:
For help with this release of Red Hat Linux, subscribe to the Zoot mailing list by sending a message with a subject of "subscribe" to zoot-list-request@redhat.com, or buy a Red Hat Linux boxed set and take advantage of our support department.
The Zoot development team wishes to thank all of the developers who contributed to this release, our beta testers, and everyone who reported a bug or made a feature request.
Here's a (partial) list of new features in Zoot:
- The system can now be installed onto a loopback file on a FAT filesystem. This allows users to install Red Hat Linux onto an existing partition rather then having to repartition their system.
- The upgrade process recognizes Linux RAID arrays.
- Better rescue mode on CD and NFS, allowing improved disaster recovery.
- Networking services have had their client and server components split into separate packages to improve sysadmin flexibility.
- Pentium III support for improved performance
- Workstation installs no longer install networking daemons
- Many system daemons turned off by default
- MesaGL now included
- All man pages gzip'd
- Added support for/etc/X11/xinitrc/xinitrd.d for X startup logic
- Piranha clustering updates
o web based GUI config o 2-node service failover support o generic service monitoring/loadblancing o tunneling and direct routing support for IPVS
- Beowulf-style clustering added
o PVM 3.4.3 (Parallel Virtual Machine) o LAM 6.3.1 (MPI library environment) o make-pvm (PVM aware version of GNU make) o (Please note that mpich-1.2.0 is now part of PowerTools for Red Hat Linux 6.2.)
- Automatic support for up to 4 gigabytes of RAM
- ISDN configuration utility added
- Encryption now included! Now that the US more closely resembles a free country, all versions of Red Hat Linux include:
o Kerberos authentication for mutt, pine, fetchmail, cvs, and imap. In addition, the following kerberos-aware versions of the following clients have been added:
o Kerboros network clients included for rlogin, rsh, telnet, ftp in krb5-workstation package
o GNOME-based Kerberos configuration tools added
o GNU Privacy Guard (gpg) included
o Netscape with 128-bit encryption included
- More beauteous vim included --/usr/bin/vim supports syntax color and langauge-based indention
- anacron used for many system jobs
- termcap, terminfo, and various terms have been modified to support the Debian Backspace Guidelines for Backspace and Delete, as well as to make Home and End work consistently
- DocBook support included
- Colorized ls by default (remove/etc/profile.d/colorls.* to disable)
Red Hat 6.2 Officially Released
by
a+poor+scribbler
·
· Score: 4
Red Hat 6.2: Not playing the version game With Mandrake. Hooray.
Frankly I'm a little sick and tired of some of the people that have just started using Linux, Ya, I know I should be kind and helpful and all that, and I will be helpful and kind, I'm ready to answer any questions I can, to help somebody get a solid understanding of linux and how it works, etc, etc, etc, etc, to my point...
There seems to be a group of you, and I think I know who you are... You've been using Linux for about a year, maybe eighteen months... You probably dual boot or have a Lose98 machine handy.. You pretend to know a lot about linux , You talk a lot when it comes to linux and boast how great it is, how it can do everything and anything, Well except for StarCraft and Quicken... and then you go on to bash RedHat, you know all the profane variations of the Redhat name (redhate, deadrat, rudehat, etc, probbaly another 80 or 90 that I dont know aobut yet).. you continually blast it for being Insecure, full of bugs, unstable, etc etc etc etc, stop repeating what other people say, think for yourself for once...
Let me tell you knuckleheads something, before you go Bashing RedHat, and its a very good distro, yes, even Linus Torvalds uses Redhat (wow, he must be some Lamer dude eh ? ) the Security issue, Okay, two things here, I'll grant you the latitude to bash redhat for their default inetd.conf configuration (its a bit Strange).. But you've got to learn to tidy those things up, if you dont, You aren't worthy to administer a Linux box, Sorry guys thats the way it is. 2nd thing with security, RedHat has probably the best support when it comes to bug/exploit fixes for their rpms, just check their errata page every week to see if something new has popped up (or get on the mailing list, it'll send you mail when a Security Alert has been issued)...
ya, okay, then you go ahead and say "HEY LOOK AT ALL THOSE BUG FIXES ON REDHATS ERRATA, THEIR DISTRO MUST BE FULL OF BUGS AND EXPLOITS !!!!!" I've heard crap very similar to this many times.. Okay you knuckleheads, First of all, when somebody discovers a bufferoverflow in SSH or whatever package you can think up, MANY MANY TIMES it is not distro specific, in english, that means IT AFFECTS ALL Distributions, "OH MY GAWD, DEBIAN IS TAINTED !!! BUT ITS THE PERFECT DISTRO !!! ONLY REAL HACKERS USE DEBIAN!!!!!" (Debian is a great distro, good work you guys, not trying to put you down or anything here)..
Oh, I almost forgot Redhat is the next Microsoft of Linux, how many times have I heard that from you schmucks lately , ohh, lots. I dont have to sit here and prove that it cant happen, I'll be wasting my time, because I know it cant.
The Linux community has Benefitted and profitted so much from Redhat, You just dont know it, 90% of the people that fit into that (1 year to 18 month) range JUST DONT KNOW what they've done, and you guys keep repeating the bullshit your script kiddy friends say.... your all pissing me off.. There is a lot of good info for you guys that is available on the web, even here on slashdot regarding the last 6 or 7 years of Linux History, I SUGGEST YOU ALL GO READ IT AND LEARN. Dont be afraid of the commmandline, I know you guys are scared of that thing, its easy as pie , type ls , rm ~/.netscape/cookies , vi/etc/inetd.conf.. wow, hard eh..
Either grow up and learn to accept their will be bugs and weird things happening in the first major release of a distro or the alternative is, You better be holding your precious SuSe/debian/mandrake/corel/ distro the same ugly standard as you do redhat when they make a first release.
Slashdot Mirror
the US crypto laws were passed almost 2 months ago, it's no longer illegal to export 128 bit encryption, not sure on the full details of everything passed, but this much i know. glad to see the US is so up to speed on everything.
Try LeechFTP, and then GetRight. Both of those can be configured to use a proxy server. Remember to set it to use the server's IP, port 21.
Motif 2.1 Integration?!
Oh boy! RedHat seem to be jump back and forth on the Motif issue. Why don't they just fund the lesstif project already?! This feature item seems to violate feature item number one (Open source code gives control back to developers and system administrators). Also, when RedHat dropped TriTeal's CDE port they had a long rant on their website about the reliablity and security issues with the closed source CDE and Motif. They followed the rant up with a shamless plug for GNOME as being the solution. Has Motif 2.1 really addressed all the problems that caused RedHat rant when they dropped TriTeal CDE or have they just given-in for Oracle's demands? If GNOME was the ultimate solution that the rant made it out to be and RedHat and Oracle worked so closely together then why couldn't RedHat get Oracle to support Gtk instead of RedHat supporting the Motif product they claimed to be so botched?
If you read between the lines in the product description, it says Oracle dictated the terms of an optimized enviroment and to hell with the Linux community on what they think is right. When I have the option to do:
and get a GTK window up, then I'll believe that Oracle worked to integrate with Linux. Supporting the Motif'd /m is just Linux community laying down their values to "integrate" with Oracle's demands, not the other way around.
haha that is cool!
did you do that on purpose?
(or was that a goof?)
What's this? Neither Google nor Altavista have heard of it, and debian.org seems to be suffering from some kind of religious spasm that has caused them to take down their search page.
From the brief description, I assume this creates a big-ass file on an existing FAT partition which contains all the ext2 partitions you, like many emulation programs and the next (current?) version of BeOS.
What, if any, other distros offer this? Any experiences with it? This could be handy for a Wintel machine which is used as a secondary linux box.
> Don't you think 2 stories on redhat 6.2 is a little bit of overkill.
>First it is a . release, and second I haven't seen or heard of any
>wildly revolutionary changes that even make this noteworthy.
>The people that really care were probaly following it anyway.
(1) Actually if you'ld been paying attention, you'ld found out that 6.2 ships with things that the BSD crowd in particular seems to bitch about being defaulted on linux is now defaulted off.
(2) People like talking about the linux dists they use. Sorry if this offends Microsoft Astroturfers like yourself.
(3) Talking about . releases on Slashdot give the various linux dists makers the kind of public feedback that they normally don't get.
(4) I *COULD* continue, but I think you get the point. Sod off....
>It is somewhat annoying that there exists such a rabid vocal linux
/ 139105.asp
3 9105.asp
_ _______________
_ _______________
>following. Just because you disagree, you have to become insulting,
>this kind of attitude only hurts all of us that would like to see
>wider adoption of linux and other free software.
Spare us please. You Astrotufers got caught red-handed over on the MSNBC Technology Bulletin Board pulling your bullshit: BTW, since when has Microsoft been a 100% Free-BSD / Sun Sparc shop?
http://bbs.msnbc.com/bbs/msnbc-scitech/posts/fu
and here's the typical Astroturfer at work:
REFRESH(900 sec):
http://bbs.msnbc.com/bbs/msnbc-scitech/posts/fu/1
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_________________________________________________
Subject:
From:
Host:
Date: Re: Cut MS some slack
Anonymous
tide117.microsoft.com
Thu Mar 23 15:03:58
On Thu Mar 23 10:43:13, R Jones wrote:
> There would be NO internet communication if there wasn't
> software like Apache which runs 56% of all
> webservers. Apache is 100% totally NOT win32 (yes
> you can download a win32 version but they highly don't
> recommend it...very unsecure).
MSNBC Technology Bulletin Board (p3 of 5)
> Go go go Apache....erase IIS4...heh.
>
Get a clue. Try benchmarking Apache against iis 5.0.
We did that, thinking it was going to be a joke, since we
are a 100% Free-BSD / Sun Sparc shop. Guess what we
found. ON IDENTICAL HARDWARE, IIS 5.0 cared 10 times the
load. . . Sure apache has large market share, but I have
two questions, "for how much longer, and, "what
does this have to do with the antitrust case?" As a
matter of fact buy writing this email you show that,
"THERE IS COMPETITION," and Microsoft therefore
is not a monopoly.
-Systems Administrator
_________________________________________________
More recently there is a beast called BigSlack...same basic deal, but with all the goodies.
Neither makes much sense as a dayly driver, but they're great as a save test drive, or when you just need a Linux box *now* as a stop-gap.
Folks should really consider having a look at Slackware. Due to the influx of new folks who don't understand what it takes to build a stable system, Slack has developed an unfair rep as not being an innovative and current distro. See for yourself, don't take other people's word for it.
Remember: Most people are stupid.
Got Slack?
--
If your map and the terrain differ,
trust the terrain.
you can still use the text install ... just type "text" when the cd first boots (like it says to)
support gun control: take guns from cops
I grabbed the ISO off of kernel.org yesterday and installed it on my workstation last night.
IMHO, the most interesting thing in this release is all of the kerberos suupport, and the "Docs" CD. Strangely enough neither is mentioned in the announcement.
Oh yeah, and there is a good amount of crypto included: mutt-international version (finally), gnupg, and netscape-128bit would be the biggies.
No this release isn't revolutionary. It's not supplosed to be. It's a minor release. Good to see another one though.
tsk.tsk.
They don't even supply gcc 2.95!
Take a minute prior to posting in the future, and type something into the search box at the bottom of the /. homepage. I typed in Caldera and got a page full of links, including, amongst other things, a version release story.
Not a flame, just trying to point out that your observation is incorrect.
-buffy
OK, I got onto Redhat's ftp site and am wanting to get the ISO for 6.2. In the ISO directory I notice this zoot-doc.iso. Does this mean they have a cd's worth of documentation?????(it's >600MB)
What are the reasons for not putting in XFree86 4.0? I am sure they had good reasons, but what are they exactly? Should I (or others) hold off before download source/RPMs?
How about moderating it "inciteful".
Ita erat quando hic adveni.
There are restrictions on where the kernel can physically be on the disk. So a /boot dir is created to ensure that whatever wacky partitions you create, the kernel will be in the correct place.
Scuttlemonkey is a troll
So use the kickstart feature present in the :)
RedHat installer? It allows you to say what you
want installed (precisely afaik). You put it on a
disk, insert it, and it'll do it for you...
I'm pretty sure it doesn't do all that over the network though (unless you netboot the box with
the modified install-disk, if at all possible
I understand there is a problem with the moderating system. It lacks an option which indicates 'false-inflation'. Some comments are not worthy of being hire than 1. If some lame moderator puts down "insightful", if it really was only wasted text, you are left with calling it "troll" or "off-topic".
Actually, the moderation system has 2 options for "underrated" and "overrated".
-mark
-mark
If your computer says LINUX, run...computers can't talk! [unless you have text-speech software]
I think slashdot only announced that it will be released soon, just like they did with redhat. Noe SuSE is actually available (on CD).
I just downloaded Redhat 6.2 and I am very disappointed. There is no significant new feature. I am waiting for SuSE 6.4 now, which should come out any minute. At least they have an optinal XFree 4 with configuration tool included...
Hopefully SuSE puts their distro on the ftp servers right away this time.
Sorry for two posts in a row but I just saw on the German suse website SuSE.de that SuSE 6.4 has been released on CDROM.
The worst part of this is that even in "upgrade" mode, the install script decides that you really need all the eye candy and gnome foo which you painstakingly un-installed the last time you did an install.
So, you have to go root it all out all over again.
At least the install processes didn't whack nearly as many of my config files as it did the last time. Still, with each release the comparative pain threshold involved in switching to debian instead gets smaller and smaller.
So far, I haven't seen md5sums or cksums on any of the mirrors. I've got the ISO's mirrored, but the i386 image didn't boot on my system.
Could anyone else run md5sum or cksum on their iso images and see if they match these:
b7cb386ec426ae38a925bdd844b86f84 zoot-i386.iso
9fe617911acc104f8c89a0f8ea1b5917 zoot-srpms.iso
3132136560 671881216 zoot-i386.iso
1388524199 594044928 zoot-srpms.iso
Actually this makes teaching 6.1 installation make more sense. In very loose generalities by the time the sucessor to a piece of software is announced the bugs in the older version are pretty well known (and in the case of linux, usually fixed). This gives the opprotunity to teach installing the fixes as part of installing a new system.
I don't think that comment is entirely fair. If you look at Mandrake 6.2 versus Mandrake 7.0, there are some really big differences.
I know Linux 2.4 kernel, Xfree 4.0 and other stuff isn't there, but instead there are:
- DrakX: Their graphical installation program.
- DiskDrake: Their graphical patitioning program.
- DrakConf: Their graphical configuring program.
Those are some pretty huge improvements over version 6.2 - whether they are enough for a jump to 7.0 can be discussed, but I think they are more than a jump to ex. 6.3!
A distribution is not just a collection of RPMs, or source files, or whatever. Red Hat puts extensive work into customizing the packages for their system, configuring things to work nicely together, improving the system configuration tools, etc. If you stick with your base system and never upgrade, but instead just update your packages from source, your system will have a different flavour after time goes by, which is fine. But you will miss some of the engineering of the distributor.
----
Celebrate the finer things in life
And why, pray tell, is that?
A good, stable release with new features is good, but these days Linux releases are a few too many, a few too often.
I keep using that Debian "unstable" distribution. It was called Hamm, Slink, Potato and then Woody. Stop the politiking. Make up yer minds already :-)
pilot
I wasn't commenting about this particular release. There are most certainly a lot of goodies there.
pilot
One man's humor is another man's flamebait
-- I need more coffee. It's Monday. There is no such thing as enough coffee on a Monday.
When I go to their secure store site, I get a popup box that says:
It has no button to allow me to choose to continue anyway. So why do I get this error only on Redhat's web site and not others? I seem to recall this problem in an earlier release. I'm assuming they run their own web server software, which I would not want to buy because I would not want to risk this kind of thing affecting my site visitors.
BTW, I know it is not an expired certificate problem, because I get a different popup for that, and that popup lets me decide to continue.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Anyone know of a frequently updated page that tracks the latest Linux releases?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
On topic:
I agree with another poster, it is helpful to be able to get to the mirror sites before the mad rush hits.
On-and-off topic:
I believe their should be a different grouping for beta release and distro release news. In this manner, those who do not care can elect to have it not appear in their news listing.
Off topic (but in line with this post):
Too often people who have negative points are moderated down as troll. Mention something positive about M$ and you take a dive. I am not saying I like M$, but some of the posts have been useful insights. I understand there is a problem with the moderating system. It lacks an option which indicates 'false-inflation'. Some comments are not worthy of being hire than 1. If some lame moderator puts down "insightful", if it really was only wasted text, you are left with calling it "troll" or "off-topic".
Just my 3 cents.
In a place beyond time and space, in a land far better than this, look for me there...
Ok, fair enough. I stand corrected :-)
--
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Basically they boiled down to it not being stable enough on anything other than i386. They figured that by the time the inevitable bugfixes, etc. made it out, that Linux 2.4 would be also out, and that would be about time to start up a 7.0 series.
--
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
The acronym ISO stands for "International Standards Organization". They"devise" (for lack of a better word) standards for all sorts of things. The nomenclature ISOXXXX refers to a specific standard. ISO9000, for example, is a standard for workflow management, designed to help get optimum efficiency and stuff out of a work process. ISO8570 (or something close to it) is a standard for fabrics, designed with safety (ie: fire retardancy) in mind. The standards they come up with are extremely wide-ranging.
The one relevant to this discussion is ISO9660, which is a standard for encoding data on a CD. Thus a *.iso file is one that conforms to the ISO9660 standard, and can be written directly to a CD, which can then be read just like any other "standard" CD.
--
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
They don't have Xfree86 4. Check the article yesterday.
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
This is not bad IMHO because you can choose what kind of install you want - Server, Gnome Workstation, KDE Workstation, Laptop System - it's a simple choice in the install. And don't worry, you can also select exactly what packages you want.
I think this is a Good Thing. Instead of having distributions tailored for various uses you have a "fat" distribution and the option to choose the primary use in the install. Of course you can tailor Slackware exactly the way you want too, but I think the option in the RedHat install is nice, because even if you want the system tailored for a specific use you don't have to choose all the packages yourself if you don't want to.
GNU/Linux. The Freshmaker.
I said:
;-)
Anyways, a new Linux release is always good for the community
Pilot said:
And why, pray tell, is that?
Hmmm. OK. I see where you're coming from, however, I'm not talking about the stability of the systems provided. I guess I'm coming from the "there's no such thing as bad publicity" department.
My thinking works like this:
+ More products are released
+ These are advertised
+ Therefore there are more and more adverts
+ Therefore the catchment area for the adverts grows (even by accident, if there are more, then there is a greater chance of a person seeing at least one of them).
+ Therefore more people get to find hear about Linux
+ Therefore more good/useful/helpful people move into the Linux community and my original statement stands.
Works for me anyway
Nick.
Where can grab the Mandrake XFree 4.0 RPMS ?
I looked all other the Mandrake site and couldn't find them.
10x in advance
I really like that they have been keeping their distro somewhat up to date with the Joneses, but recently something happened that really got me thinking about the people at RedHat.
Last fall I ordered the boxed set (Battlestar Galactica Edition with Flux Capacitor and five CDs of stuff from about a year ago). Everything was great. The installs worked just perfect (on several machines). I even received printed documentation, although it was all about Gnome.
I also received a Hat. Very nice quality, this Hat. Adjustable size, solidly manufactured with an embroidered logo on the top.
But it wasn't red.
You would think that a company called RedHat would send you a Hat, and it would be Red, right? That has me wondering if there's a new subversive element at RedHat, working from within, with the final intent to morph RedHat into, yes, you got it, BlackHat!
"The mind is a terrible thing to, um, uh, oh bollocks." -- Me
Does anyone know if there is support for the Promise ATA66 controllers? SuSE 6.3 has it, but for some reason, it was left out of RH 6.1.
Regards,
Bun
"Anyone that has ever gotten an idea based on any of my work and done something better with it-good for you."--J.Carmack
I personally do basic installs and compile most things from source, trying to keep them up to date, but I can only pay attention to so much. It's nice to upgrade to a new version of a distribution simply because it covers all the bases you don't have the time to cover. You could watch freshmeat, but things are posted so fast, it takes a bit of effort just to keep up.
Aside from covering the bases, having prepackaged distributions allow software distributers to package pre-compiled (or source files) for standard, expected sets of libraries, allowing for the most painless installs/compiles.
And probably the most important point is that many newcomers don't upgrade on a package by package basis and NEED everything nice and packaged before they upgrade.
On a slightly tangent point, I hate rpm too, does any distribution have a really good packaging system? I like to both compile from source and install to separate directories for larger programs, yet not get my path all mangled. I like tar balls and stow, but some programs aren't nice and put things where they don't belong anyway, so some files may belong to an unknown packge, because it is not RPM, and it is not in a stow tree (which makes me mad...)
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
These guys are all trolls. forget em. on #linuxhelp which is the only help channel that really matters, no one is kicked out for a dumb question. and we get hundreds of newbies. all of us help out as best we can. and very few of us tell em to RTFM.
The newbie crowd is only going to go to friendly channels...thats one reason efnet has been dumped and everyones switched to irc.linux.com....
Why is RedHat only using Linux 6.2, when both Slackware and Mandrake use Linux 7.0?
I use Linux 7.0 from Slackware. (amazingly simple install, btw) Who needs this old fashioned Linux 6.x stuff?
------
If a tree falls on an anonymous coward yelling 'first post' in the forest, does anybody hear?
I used to handle documentation for ISO certification and in order for a manufacturing plant to keep getting ISO's stamp of approval. Evidently ISO just maintains that you follow certain guidelines and pay them huge amounts of cash for adhering to their standards, and in return you get an ISO cert that tells other companies you document your procedures. It's nearly pointless, however, once you realize the following.
You could build an air conditioning unit from Legos and twine, and whether it actually works or not is irrelevant to ISO. As long as you have documentation stating specifically HOW you build it you'll get certified. ISO 9000-9002 certs are all about docs, and little else.
Thanks for the link.
I'm one of those that uses linux. Not plays with it. Just uses it.
I've been running suse because it is easy. More and more I am finding software I need has been tuned for red hat. I just killed my laptop *again* and it is a good time to jump ship.
Where can I find info for red hat 6.2 similiar to what is right at the top of the page at http://www.suse.com/ Easy links to what is new and what has changed, in addition to the full package list you mentioned.
How does red hat compare to suse in usability? I have come to rely very heavily on yast and I am worried about what will happen if I lose that crutch.
Thanks,
Dan
If the 6.2beta is any indication, this one's gonna rock. Been using the beta since day-1: love it.
--
"I have a good idea why it's hard to verify programs. They're usually wrong." --Manuel Blum, FOCS 94
Yup.. running them now on RH 6.1. All I can say is the XF4 is damn fast.. And KDE2 beta as well.. enjoy.. :)
:. Ultimate Control Dedicated/VM Servers
Is there really a "Laptop System" install in redhat-6.2? I haven't seen one in the redhat-6.2de beta version.
As a 1 year user of linux i feel compelled to tell you... I too find such bashing annoying, although I do not use redhat (I'm a debian fan)... that you sound really perturbed and I guarantee that by changing your Slashdot threshold to 2 or even 3 your life will be much less stressful. Slashdot does not represent the linux community, sadly it seems to be mostly newer/immature users.
As an aside, I can't understand why anyone would be afraid of the command line. It is so much more productive then annoying GUI tools.
just so you know, I count 45 buggy packages in debian slink, thus it is by no mean perfect, if by perfect you mean mistake free. It is perfect however, if you're speaking of the state of mind free software and a totally free ( read non-profit) distro creates.
How do you install your debs on a regular basis?? I'd like to do a simliar kind of thing but I'm a little fearful of using apt-get's -y (say yes to everything) option which is what I assume your script does.
If you script does something more miraculous than this, could you post it? or send it my way? thanks
Why's that been moderated down as a troll? The guy's only pointing out that we've had two stories on Red Hat 6.2 in two days ("Red Hat 6.2 about to be released" and "Red Hat 6.2 released"). I personally think that the 'about to be released' story was completely unnecessary, but Slashdot's been posting a lot of these 'non-software announcements' recently. I wish they'd only post software announcements when there's something REAL to announce.
HH
Yellow tigers crouched in jungles in her dark eyes.
Yellow tigers crouched in jungles in her dark eyes.
She's just dressing, goodbye windows, tired starlings.
It is somewhat annoying that there exists such a rabid vocal linux following. Just because you disagree, you have to become insulting, this kind of attitude only hurts all of us that would like to see wider adoption of linux and other free software.
Surprisingly most of the REAL linux users I know don't like talking about the dist they use, they realize that no one dist is best for everyone, or even every application, and all the major dists are of relatively high quality.
I really hope that outspoken rude people like yourself remain the miniscule minority that the rest of us can politely ignore.
Try reading the advocacy howto, you need it more then most.
as usual, the maintainers of the mirrors are lazy and grabbed everything but the iso's.. redhat.com as them .. and as usual you can't get to redhat's site.. every other site has nothing in it's iso directory or just has redhat-6.2 with no read permission.. figures.. i'm flying in 3 hours and wanted to throw it up before i leave.
"And how can this be? For he is the
ISO 9660, the base filesystem for CD-ROM's. Filenames are limited to 8.3, and all that lovely DOS-ian stuff. However, Rock Ridge Extention (used mainly by *nix) and M$'s Joliet extention add things like longfilenames and such.
In this case, the posters are looking for ISO 9660 CD Image of the bloody things.
Downloading from redhat as I type this =)
.technomancer
you can still use the text install ... just type "text" when the cd first boots (like it says to)
In text 6.1 installs you can't see the package summaries. I was glad I had been using Redhat for a while when I went to install 6.1 on an old Pentium and for some reason the installer didn't see the S3 ViRGE card on the box and went into text mode. Someone who hasn't installed Redhat before would have no idea what some of the packages do without a summary. I installed Mandrake on a machine a while back, and I had to look at dozens of packages summaries trying to figure out what I needed.
ftp://128.253.254.56/upload/rh62/zoot- i386.iso
SlashMirror: Where to put files for fellow /.'ers
SlashMirror: Where to put files for fellow /.'ers
I actually thought that /. did post something on that topic... but a quick search proved that you were indeed right, Mr. Coward. Postings of Caldera Linux since January have been limited to IPO news.
/. works by submissions, if nobody posted that as a good article, it wouldn't have been posted. Anybody out there post the eServer or eDesktop as a new submission when the news broke?
/. as a news source, I figure they are not perfect, but pretty darned good. How do other large companies deal with this: I know ABC has a policy of not reporting on Disney Corp because of the conflict of interest. And Microsoft (MSNBC, Slate) always puts disclaimers of bias when they report on themselves, and are eager to post news of competitors to avoid the impression of being oppressively biased. While other companies... from Viacom to VA Linux to AOL Time Warner, make no reference at all to cross-ownership. Which is best? Probably the best policy is to report the bias (a la MSNBC) and err on the side of caution by aggressively reporting news of competitors.
/., because you had to visit the site in order to make a posting!
Of course, that might be caused by two factors: 1) RH is much more widely used, therefore the news is more more "newsworthy" when RH gets updated (I personally care more because I use it, and not OpenLinux) and 2)
As for the reiablility of
(I guess that's why I get my Linux news ELSEWHERE...)
One might assume that you get some of your news from
-rt-
** Evil Canadians are taking over the world. Learn about the conspiracy
Actually, this version of Red Hat asks you just that. It's quite customizable. It'll ask you if you want a GNOME workstation, a KDE workstation, an AfterStep workstation, a server, or custom. I haven't tried out all the different installs. I'm guessing the server install leaves a lot of the eyecandy and other multimedia stuff out.
Until about RH 5.2 you could actually do a network install (FTP or NFS). I wonder why they stopped doing that. Now you have to make a custom boot disk, which is annoying, but not disasterous.
I don't know why you say that it's hard to keep track of what's where, because RPM is extremely powerful. You can ask any file from what package it came from, and then remove that package if you want. You can see what files belong to a package and exactly where it's gonna put them during the install. During the install you can select exactly which packages you want and each package has information on what it does. I always look for RPMs of programs before tar.gz files, just because I think make install is messy, and some make files don't have make uninstall in them (yeah, I should've looked at the makefile first). And I don't enough about coding to want to read through the source code looking for malicious code, so I usually just install the binaries from RPMs, which are plentyful on the web.
I don't know which things about NFS you had problems with. Of all the Linux systems I'm on, it works quite allright. It's sometimes a little flakey if there's still stuff running when you try to umount, but that can be fixed with the right options.
It sounds like you're the kind of person who'd find the 'custom' option during the install useful, and select which RPMs you install. I really doubt that it'd be easier to make install all the packages then still have to configure them, and make sure they are put in the right runlevels.
Anyway, my 2 Eurocents.
Cheers!
Costyn.
The Official Steve Ballmer Webpage
The Mesa people have always said NOT to call it MesaGL due to copywrite reasons... just call it Mesa.
I didn't think Red Hat would overlook somethibg like that....
I'm running Potato myself, and did an apt-get dist-upgrade on the weekend.
:)
The result?
111 package updates
At the rate the debian folks are messing with things, we'll see the addition of a stable-frozen tree before 2.2 is officially released. *grin*
-----------------------------
"There is no knowledge that is not power"
Does anyone know if 6.2 will have support for Supermount ? I tried Mandrake 7.0 which has support for and it works great.
XFree86 4.0 is not in. Check the /RPMS directory for the packages
Tomorrow BeOS R5 comes out and it is going to be a very good one. I gave up on Linux because I got sick of always referring to Howto's to do something as simple as setup a PPP connection. I like Linux and wish ya'll the best of luck but Linux is nowhere near as fun to play around with and use, at least for me, as BeOS. Linux makes a great server, BeOS a great desktop/workstation.
What this means is that it is now possible to add another layer of slowness beneath your ext2fs partition - namely, fat32. While it will be convenient to use this to try out Linux for the first time, if one is scared of the "always-scary fips/fdisk repartitioning", the problem becomes "damn, Linux is slow! Especially when you do stuff with the disk! My good ol' Windowz 98 is way faster, I'm sticking with it."
In other words, this is the same thing as how you can mount an ISO image as a filesystem.
Now it's time for me to go to yet another CS lecture and have the concept of recursion thrown at me for the umpteenth time...
Here is the main ftp site and a mirror that has it. - Red Hat's FTP Site - Metalabs Mirror
(http://www.ms-monopoly.com) -- (http://www.kmfms.com)
Yes, this is real, I infact sent a submission to ./'s team of submission monkeys with aibo inplants that enable them to sort through the masses of articles... or not. :) Anyways, yes, its real, Here is the main ftp site and a mirror that has it. - Red Hat's FTP Site - Metalabs Mirror for the files, I ust burned a copy of it for mysel, and even installed it, the SPARC version, and it works great. Good Luck.
(http://www.ms-monopoly.com) -- (http://www.kmfms.com)
I just installed the SPARC version, and am installing the i386 version on another box while I type this, they so far work great.
(http://www.ms-monopoly.com) -- (http://www.kmfms.com)
Right on. The whole "lets skip 9 versions" bit is lame. If your going make a distro, you should follow the versions as the other do. Next thing you know, it will be Mandrake 2001, or even worse, Mandrake 2000 Millenium Edition. ;) Keep The Versions Sequential.
(http://www.ms-monopoly.com) -- (http://www.kmfms.com)
ahh, i wasn't aware that option was taken out, oh well, 3.3.6 is still more stable and has crisper text than 4.0 for me :P
that RH 6.2 automatically installs the sblive driver w/o configuring? i didn't even know, i booted up, and saw (loading sound module (emu10k1). works marvelous, not sure what build they based it on, but if its not broke don't fix it. i have ot say, RH 6.2 was a marvelous install, especially over 6.1's mishandled graphical installer. bash RH all you will, but 6.2 is a very nice release, and will be on my machine for quite sometime. as for xf86-4 not making it, 3.3.6 lets me use 32 bit w/ my TNT2, but 4 only lets me use 24, so i'll stick w/ it for now. kudos to RH on a very very nice release /me gears up to d/l beos 5 and suse 6.4 in the next few hours :)
I know they have XFree 4, but what else?
XFree 4 is actually one of the things Redhat 6.2 doesn't have. It's been left out for now for a number of (very good) reasons.
Syllable : It's an Operating System
Previous poster writes:
I find it rather interesting that humor often has to be labelled as such before it's taken as such. Doesn't this contradict the whole point of humor? I mean, isn't something dreadfully wrong with a joke if you've to specifically inform others that it's a joke? Or perhaps the statement that it's a joke is the punch line :-)
Notice: the above is meant to be a joke. ;-)
mikre he sophia he tou Mikrosophou.
You know it's an unfriendly install program when you have to teach a class about it.
+++
+++
NO CARRIER
Any idea when Debian 2.2 is suppoed to be final? It's been frozen for months...
+++
+++
NO CARRIER
I want to download the RH 6.2, but I'm running into some problems.
Work uses Microsoft Proxy server, and I can't get the FTP programs (WS_FTP) to connect outside of our LAN, (our local admin says it the M$ proxy incompatability, I don't know enough about it to question ).
I can connect to the Metalabs through the internet browser though. so at the moment the only way I can download 6.2 is to point and click my way through ALL the files.
I'm not a network admin so I'm kinda restricted in what I can do.
If anyone knows of a FTP program that works with MS Proxy software or if there is a massive ZIP file somewhere I could download, I'd appreciate it.
"Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
LOL: linux7.0, hahahahahaaaaa
ftp://ftp.uselinux.org/pub/redhat/redhat-6.2/
They have the ISO's (and since I'm 23% done, it's only going to be about 700 minutes before I've got the rest of mine on this T1).
Well, the equation probably looks more like
ease of use = more users = more sales. Having more potential contributors is just a side effect.
NO.. where do you got this information... Xfree86 4 is not in RedHat 6.2, but you can get preview RPM's from Beros site
Grtz, Jeroen
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
Red Hat is dead! Long live Slackware!!!! I don't like RedHat either but I think everybody should be free to choose. I do agree that most of the people that are really doing something with their linux systems (This doesn't have to be kernel programming) that I know are NOT using RedHat. Grtz, Jeroen
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
Gnome Rocks!
I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress -J Adams
Do you really think they would release anything without some testing. They didn't create the ISO just this weekend to release it rightaway. You don't wanna release something with very silly bugs, so you test it first. gr, cageman
you bloody troll you. they contribute ease of use = more users = more potential contributors.
yeah, more stupid questions everywhere including your dumba$$ irc channel, but I think RH is banking that they'll look for better help on their support plans. The free CD is a way of increasing support sales. It's all in "The Cathedral and the Bazaar", dude.
>Why pay for it? I run redhat 6.0 at home, I didn't pay for it, I copied the CD from a friend (who I think originally downloaded it). However, now we need a linux machine at work. We will buy a copy of RedHat and probably a support contract too. Why, because my Redhat CD has been distributed at work for people to play with on their home computers. Consequently, I now feel more than happy that I have 'paid' for my copy of RedHat simply by encouraging my company to buy a copy.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. (Einstein)
I don't find it suprizing at all. 6.2 has been beta a little before X4.0, therefore no inclusion. And I would think if it were before they probably wouldn't have included it because it really hasn't been *tested* for all possible instabilities. RedHat kinda prides themselves on being a stable server distro, and having something that new and untested wouldn't be too kosher I would think.
Although it woulda been cool if they had done an asked install a la SuSe...
-bugbbq
Have them work with Solaris 8 x86. Need a faster box? Upgrade to an Ultra 80... or an Enterprise 10000! =)
Well, according to their website, it now includes apache and sendmail... isn't that revolutionary? :-)
It sounds like you want BSD :-). It is much more
minimalistic. I too am of the opinion that a base
OS is good, I can use the bsd ports collection
to install what I need to make the system
completely functional (tcsh, zsh, etc).
As for NFS, linux has improved NFS a lot. I still
don't like it as much as *BSD's nfs, but it is
much better than it used to be.
RH took a risk by promotting GNOME, and strongly supporting it, and it was obviously to help an Open Source project. And now that GNOME is a fairly stable and much promising desktop, one part of the thanks should go to the RH labs.
You can't say they're just a bunch of cynical businessmen; if it was the case, they would work for MS.
Finally, you could use a RedHat without giving any kopek to RH. You can download, buy a book or a magazine which ship a CD, use a CD of someone else, download from any mirror. No money to RH.
sigmentation fault
(2)less trouble for newbies=less newbies asking on guru's IRC
(3)Equation solution: you're saying bullshit.
sigmentation fault
Now, use your brain: Linux is more and more an hot stuff. The word "linux" is being printed on more and more reviews everywhere. So, a lots of wannabe-former MS-users are interesting themselves in this so-wonderful-so-powerful-so-stable-sogreat OS. This is not by spitting on RedHat that you will prevent newbies from wanting to use Linux. So, whatever you say, you WILL see hords of clueless newbie wandering around, looking for help for something or some other. What RedHat, Mandrake, SuSE, Corel and other brings is a easy to handle Linux, which will reduce the amount of question by being shipped with tech-support, manual and tutorial.
You're not forced to like that, but you can't deny the fact. The situation is a bit similar to the beginning of Internet for the mass: precious bandswith being wasted by net-newbies downloading porn (oh, but I forget, you troll-guru-lamers also need porn to compensate the fact they will never be able to seduce a girl). But there are also advantages to the new situation, advantages that your short mindedness will prevent you from seeing, like the fact that fresh blood is essential for an OS not to die.
sigmentation fault
more hype for Linux==more newbie.
People won't be attracted to Linux because it's now esay to install and to use. They will install it because everyone tell them no more to use Bill Brother's Window$ (hum, I havn't inserted enough dollar sign). They will install them because everyone tell them: it's free, it's fast, it's fun. Then, they will buy a RH or a Corel, and read manual and call hotlines. Some despising troll-guru-wannabe will download a slackware or a debian, won't undesrtand anything, will pollute IRC, and one or two years laters, once they've get it, will flame any newbie that pass by.
sigmentation fault
Where on RH site do they put what package they ship in their release? I know they have XFree 4, but what else?
sigmentation fault
And well, RH have now an update service, no? There are in Mandrake, Corel, and other I'm forgetting.
sigmentation fault
Coincidence do ya think? At least they did not lose as much money as Wall Street predicted. Check out http://www.cbs.marketwatch.com and do a stock symbol search on RHAT for all the details.
This is another view of the world.
First, I think that a large majority of the anti RH posters here need to get a great big gulp of the REAL WORLD. Not everyone on this planet with a PC has the time or the resources to go compiling kernels, downloading apps, etc. (I know that might make YOU excited to do that sort of stuff, however...) If RH can give me a solid distribution with support thrown in, that saves ME time.
Secondly, LINUX purity comes at a price folks. I agree that RH isn't the most technologically challenging software I've ever seen, but I think its way more important to bring "sucking air newbies" into the fold. For those of you who have jobs dealing with technologically inept people, I think you'll agree. Especially when A)99% of the PC users out there don't have a clue, B)these 99% are in all reality more wealthy than you, C)some of the 99% will be the decisionmakers (like your friendly IT manager) you will have to convince that LINUX is a good thing.
Will bringing in new users compromise the OS? I doubt it, as I am an IT instructor and have noticed that most people take what they are learning at face value. If it takes keystrokes or menu items to get something accomplished, it can be taught.
It's a good thing to debate amongst other geeks, but it isn't worth getting hysterical ABOUT A DISTRIBUTION.
This is another view of the world.
Installed 6.2 yesterday via FTP, everything went fine. But when i rebooted the install it somehow failed to load my ethernet module.. i was forced to do a manual configuration afterwards to get it to work. I didn't have to do this in RH6.1.. is this a bug or what?
I can't help but notice that this is a good time for a release. Windows 2000 has just been released, but isn't living up to reliability expectations (I hear it's blue screening left and right). However, a new, more stable Linux (an OS with a knack for reliability already) is being released with a new, more diversified, line of server software in the distribution(as always). Windows 2000 is also incompatable with lots of older programs (DOS legacy problems due to it's NT roots), and upgrades are looking extremely costly. And with that lawsuit hanging over their heads, this is trouble for Microsoft...though not the end by a long shot. They will just cling onto the client end of client-server...
Valar
====
Crudely Drawn Games
Mandrake RPMs for XFree 4.0 are at www.rpmfind.net.
Surpising they don't supply X 4.0. Mandrake already provided RPMS of it... I'm wondering if there is a little reason to upgrade from 6.1 ...
RedHat needs to decide - server/workstation/desktop/beowulf?
Should Red Hat be a server, a workstation, a desktop, or a beowulf system? Yes.
Red Hats first two release always suck shit. 6.0 was a disaster, 6.1 was a little better. Maybe now they've sorted everything out. Just like with 5.0-5.2.
support gun control: take guns from cops
Why do people find a new release of a distribution so exciting when virtually all the software it contains has probably been freely available for several months? If I want to upgrade something on my system, I download the source, compile it and install (I hate RPM's). Why wait several months to install all the fixes in one go, when you could have fixed them many weeks before?
Now weary traveller, rest your head. For just like me, you're utterly dead.
I mostly agree with you, except that I have been using Linux for 2 years (not much above your 18 months limit) starting with RedHat 5.0, and feel insulted
It simply is the best distro as far as I am concerned. But then I never used any other distro nor do I care to do it nor do I care if they all cease instantly to exist.
RedHat has been an excellent distro for me and being on their watch-list means that I know about updates and security holes and have access (free) to their update site (sometimes laggy but they all are when you have a 33.6 modem).
You must however understand that in the group of RedHat bashers you will find "offended virgins" who don't like the "commercial aspect" of RedHat (in truth their success) but would still buy Suse/Slackware (the first a real commercial thing, the second the first commercial and failing Linux company), or even worse Mandrake/Macmillan/Joe Schmuck (all redhat-based) distros.
Oh but I forgot, they are better RedHat than RedHat, when all Mandrake did was recompile packages for pentium machines. Dammit guys, there is a CD with src.rpms on any RedHat distro and yes you can all recompile them (it will take less time than waiting for your Mandrake).
There are also the elitists who don't like RedHat because so many people use it. These people will be the first to leave Linux when it really reaches world-domination and would maybe go with Hurd (DUH!) or *BSD*, *BeOS* (but then they'll bitch about GPL and hail NOT GPL).
These folks would even support Windows if it was on the loosing side, believe me.
While waiting for this to happen, have fun with this new release. I am gonna buy my copy as soon as I can.
Peace and NO I don't have shares in RedHat nor do I work for RedHat nor am I going to an interview for a job at RedHat nor do I have plans to do so.
The kernel needs a Gtk/Gnome-based post-install device configuration tools "a la" make xconfig. (Better sig coming soon
Why pay for it?
Because the truth is free beer is not free. It costs money to for the ingredients, for maintaining the still, and it takes an individual's time which is worth something. There are many who just take from the community and think, "this is great! software for nothing." This is a braindead mentality.
Some companies, like RedHat, make their money in support and training. If you plan to $$ support them via this avenue, then by all means accept their free stuff. But, they are not the only type of company out there. There are also gaming companies (which I do not think are going to make a killing in support and training). Maybe they have sponsor companies, in which case, it is not free software, it is a link to advertisement.
There are other ways of contributing to the community, i.e. producing worthwhile code, but this does not mean you should still not pay to support what you find valuable to use. My point is if all you do is take from the community, you are no more than a vampire and a bloodsucker. I personally choose to buy a distro once per major modification (i.e. going from 2.0 to 2.2, inclusion of X version 4.0 will be worth it) because though I may be able to patch and compile my way there, I would prefer to spend my time doing more cost effective things.
Please note, I am not calling the poster of this comment a vampire or bloodsucker, I do not know the individual's involvement with the community, the post is addressing the question, "Why pay for it?"
P.S. - Yes, I bought a linux version of Quake III.
In a place beyond time and space, in a land far better than this, look for me there...
Well... I can't speak for everyone, of course. But I can speak for myself, and this is why I am going to pay for it.
- I am on a 28.8 dial-up. I have no interest in waiting hours and hours to download it. I will pay for the convenience of avoiding that.
- I like little things, such as the books that come with it, the fact that it will come with boot disks, so I don't have to rawrite my own. I will pay for the paper and the convenience of having little details taken care of for me.
- Most importantly, I want to give back to the community. I will pay so they can pay developers to help give us more great stuff.
That's why I will pay for it.--
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think you just crossed it.
- Sean
It's a fine line between trolling and karma-whoring... and I think I just crossed it.
- Sean
Don't you think 2 stories on redhat 6.2 is a little bit of overkill. First it is a . release, and second I haven't seen or heard of any wildly revolutionary changes that even make this noteworthy.
/. because it's news (rather than vapour), and it gets discussed because some of us are interested in it (rather than because someone had enough money to buy a multi-page spread in the New York Times).
Should we compare it to Win2K, which has treated us to four years of news stories and blowhard press releases, finally to ship without all the promised features?
At least Red Hat 6.2 hit
--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
- Workstation installs no longer install networking daemons
- Many system daemons turned off by default
One or two traditional unices tried this at some point and were chastised by users for it. I can't wait to install 6.2 to see what it enables by default. This is a big security win for newbies and other clueless installers.
Noticed the included kerberos stuff, that's nice too, but I wonder if openssh is included.
I had not noticed.
Thank you for pointing it out.
It brightened my day.
I guess I've been asleep for the last two months. Here is the relevant info for anyone interested:
.246.62/public.nsf/docs/60D6B47456BB389F8525686400 78B6C0
from http://204.193
Global Exports of Commercial Encryption Source Code and Toolkits
Encryption source code which is available to the public and which is subject to an express agreement for the payment of a licensing fee or royalty for commercial production or sale of any product developed using the source code (such as "community source" code) may be exported under a license exception to any end-user without a technical review. At the time of export, the exporter must submit to the Bureau of Export Administration a copy of the source code, or a written notification of its Internet address. All other source code can be exported after a technical review to any non-government end-user. U.S. exporters may have to provide general information on foreign products developed for commercial sale using commercial source code, but foreign products developed using U.S.-origin source code or toolkits do not require a technical review.
so, open-source projects don't need licensing. But netscape is not open source. They probably did a one-time techincal review for that :
Global exports to individuals, commercial firms or other non-government end-users
Any encryption commodity or software, including components, of any key length can now be exported under a license exception after a technical review to any non-government end-user in any country except for the seven state supporters of terrorism. Exports previously allowed only for a company's internal use can now be used for any activity, including communication with other firms, supply chains and customers. Previous liberalizations for banks, financial institutions and other approved sectors are continued and subsumed under the license exception. Exports to government end-users may be approved under a license.
and of course - INAL.
-- Virtual Windows Project
I'm surprised that noone has mentioned that, once again, Red Hat is shipping a kernel version that doesn't really exist. I don't have any objections to Red Hat adding code to the kernel (so long as the chnages are open source), but they shouldn't be declaring their own kernel versions.
Even more typical - I just bought the box of RH6.1 at the store yesterday.
Well, as the previous poster pointed out, you can install it under a FAT partition, but the other nice feature is that you don't have to use disk druid or fdisk if you don't want to during the install. It'll make a default partitioning which has swap space, /boot (of about 20 megs) and / (takes whatever else is left). Useful if you're lazy or not familiar with partitioning.
Cheers!
Costyn.
The Official Steve Ballmer Webpage
Here is the main ftp site and a mirror that has it. - Red Hat's FTP Site With ISOs. - Metalabs 6.2 Mirror With ISOs.
(http://www.ms-monopoly.com) -- (http://www.kmfms.com)
Mandrake 7.0 was not just a Mandrake 6.1 with one or two package version upgraded, so it was logical to considere it a whole new version.
On the other hand, RH6.2 is just a lightly improved RH6.1, and RedHat honestly labeled it as such. I don't think Mandrake or any other distromaker will adopt a year-based version number, they let it to EA Sports games and MS.
sigmentation fault
Shovelware
Shovelware is a bad thing, and it's a whole lot worse when you start shoveling server apps. It means that:
1. People run software that is not a best-fit because it works and it happens to be on the CD.
2. People run software that they don't understand and might be unsecure simply because it's there.
I can't think of anything worse than pre-installing Apache as a default web server. It's very big, very complicated and probably unecessary. Next you'll be telling me that the OS uses it to display help files or run some CGI based configuration utility.
This simply re-inforces my notion that someone REALLY should split a Linux distro into server, workstation and home user builds. If you want to shovel on 20 different CD-player apps so the desktop user can choose the one with the most eye-candy that's just fine but for God's sake I wish they'd stop doing it with daemons.
If I'm building a server, whatever OS it is, I do not want anything but the most essential (syslog, etc) services installed for me. I don't even want to have to de-select them on a setup screen. Actually I don't even want a setup screen - I want to build servers from my own install server over the network ala Solaris Jumpstart.
We all made/make fun of MS for building a Server with a GUI - hell most Linux distro's ship SEVERAL GUIs these days. Sure you can take them off but as a server admin why the hell should I spend hours removing garbage from distributions?
I used to work with Linux all the time, but now that I work with Solaris I can't say I miss it much. I'd rather spend time adding gcc, bash and friends to a Solaris box than removing Python and stuff from a Red Hat box.
It's easy to keep track of what you add, where you add it and when. It's very hard to keep track of what you've forgotten to remove because you don't know where it was put in the first place.
I tell you, the first distro that stops arsing about with 3D graphics support and actually fixes NFS* and creates a nice automatic network install system will get my support.
*Unless they've fixed NFS in Linux already - used to be a big weak point when I used it.
-----
Version 6.1.
--
dinner: it's what's for beer
Well, according to their website, it now includes apache and sendmail... isn't that revolutionary? :-)
I realise that you are speaking with tongue in cheek, but this point is worth making anyway:
To us? Of course this isn't revolutionary. You must remember, however, that both Apache and Sendmail have been receiving a lot of press at the moment (at least, they have in the journals I am subscribed to). It would appear that RH are ensuring that 6.2 will be noticed by those PHBs who have heard of Apache and Sendmail - "Hey, Linux, Apache *AND* Sendmail in one package - must try that".
The thing which interests me though is the partionless installation - I can't seem to find any details about that. What is it? Why does the cynic in me think it just means it sorts out all your partitions for you, but that they still exist?
Anyways, a new Linux release is always good for the community, so raise your glasses ladies and gentlemen.....
Nick.
added
;)
- Encryption now included! Now that the US more closely resembles
a free country, all versions of Red Hat Linux include:
o Kerberos authentication for mutt, pine, fetchmail,
cvs, and imap. In addition, the following kerberos-aware
versions of the following clients have been added:
o Kerboros network clients included for rlogin, rsh, telnet, ftp
in krb5-workstation package
o GNOME-based Kerberos configuration tools added
o GNU Privacy Guard (gpg) included
o Netscape with 128-bit encryption included
Ok, what did I miss? Was there legislation that was passed that totally opened up the encryption issue, or did Redhat get licensing from the commerse dept. for these products? I thought things like 128-bit Netscape were still illegal to export. If not, this is great news! Someone please fill me in.
-- Virtual Windows Project
The partitionless install means that you don't have to partition your system for ext2 - it installs to a big file in a FAT partition via loopback. It's mostly for people who want to try Linux without the risk of repartitioning their system.
Once again Microsoft has demonstrated their superiority in software development and versioning. How could Linux possibly compete against Microsoft when their consumer operating system is version 98 and their server operating system is all the way to to 2000.
With that many versions, they probably don't have any bugs left at all !!! To think people would actually waste their time fixing all the bugs in a 6.2 release. Even Mandrake and Slackware are only up to 7.0.
And Enlightenment, they're not even up to version 1.0 yet! There's probably not even any code to run.
You Linux folks never cease to amaze me.
WARNING - THE PRECEDING POST IS AN ATTEMPT AT HUMOR. ANY RESEMBLANCE TO FLAMEBAIT IS PURELY COINCIDENTAL.
Am I the only one that noticed that this is a Haiku?
Very nice. Creative. 8-)
"Fuzzy Wuzzy was a bear, Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair... Fuzzy Wuzzy wasn't fuzzy was he?"
The Debian Backspace Guidelines are guidelines for how BS and DEL should act. See section 3.8 of the Debian Policy Manual.
Intel & Sparc will ship April 10th; Alpha is not yet available. This info is prominently displayed on the RHAT website...
-- Erich
Slashdot reader since 1997
This message was also sent to me a while ago:
6 .2/ r edhat/redhat-6.2/ a t/redhat-6.2/ h at/redhat-6.2/ - 6.2/ a t-6.2/ d hat.com/redhat-6.2/ r edhat/redhat-6.2/ r edhat-6.2/
/etc/X11/xinitrc/xinitrd.d for X startup logic
/usr/bin/vim supports syntax color
/etc/profile.d/colorls.* to disable)
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 08:45:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Erik Troan
Reply-To: zoot-list@redhat.com
To: redhat-announce-list@redhat.com, COLA submissions
Subject: Red Hat Linux 6.2 (Zoot) now available!
Resent-Date: 27 Mar 2000 13:46:45 -0000
Resent-From: redhat-announce-list@redhat.com
Resent-cc: recipient list not shown: ;
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Red Hat is happy to announce the immediate availability of Red Hat Linux 6.2,
Zoot, for the ia32 and SPARC platforms (Alpha is coming, really), with support
for French, German, Spanish, and Italian.
You can get your hands on Zoot in many different ways:
1. ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/redhat-6.2
2. Order one of our many boxed set editions from www.redhat.com
(shipping April 10)
3. Buy it at a retail outlet (available April 10)
4. Download from one of our many mirror sites. The following mirrors
are known to be complete:
ftp://ftp.hjc.edu.sg/linux/redhat/redhat-6.2/
ftp://ftp.ip.pt/pub/redhat/ftp.redhat.com/redhat-
ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/RedHat/ftp/
ftp://ftp.sourceforge.net/pub/mirrors/redhat/redh
ftp://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/redhat-ftp/red
ftp://ftp.uni-bayreuth.de/pub/linux/redhat/redhat
ftp://ftp.uselinux.org/pub/redhat/redhat-6.2/
ftp://gd.tuwien.ac.at/opsys/linux/redhat.com/redh
ftp://mirror.atlantic.net/pub/Linux/redhat/ftp.re
ftp://sunsite.mff.cuni.cz/MIRRORS/ftp.redhat.com/
ftp://the-city.seas.upenn.edu/pub/mirrors/redhat/
For help with this release of Red Hat Linux, subscribe to the Zoot mailing
list by sending a message with a subject of "subscribe" to
zoot-list-request@redhat.com, or buy a Red Hat Linux boxed set and take
advantage of our support department.
The Zoot development team wishes to thank all of the developers who
contributed to this release, our beta testers, and everyone who reported
a bug or made a feature request.
Here's a (partial) list of new features in Zoot:
- The system can now be installed onto a loopback file on a FAT
filesystem. This allows users to install Red Hat Linux onto an
existing partition rather then having to repartition their system.
- The upgrade process recognizes Linux RAID arrays.
- Better rescue mode on CD and NFS, allowing improved disaster
recovery.
- Networking services have had their client and server components split
into separate packages to improve sysadmin flexibility.
- Pentium III support for improved performance
- Workstation installs no longer install networking daemons
- Many system daemons turned off by default
- MesaGL now included
- All man pages gzip'd
- Added support for
- Piranha clustering updates
o web based GUI config
o 2-node service failover support
o generic service monitoring/loadblancing
o tunneling and direct routing support for IPVS
- Beowulf-style clustering added
o PVM 3.4.3 (Parallel Virtual Machine)
o LAM 6.3.1 (MPI library environment)
o make-pvm (PVM aware version of GNU make)
o (Please note that mpich-1.2.0 is now part of PowerTools for Red Hat
Linux 6.2.)
- Automatic support for up to 4 gigabytes of RAM
- ISDN configuration utility added
- Encryption now included! Now that the US more closely resembles
a free country, all versions of Red Hat Linux include:
o Kerberos authentication for mutt, pine, fetchmail,
cvs, and imap. In addition, the following kerberos-aware
versions of the following clients have been added:
o Kerboros network clients included for rlogin, rsh, telnet, ftp
in krb5-workstation package
o GNOME-based Kerberos configuration tools added
o GNU Privacy Guard (gpg) included
o Netscape with 128-bit encryption included
- More beauteous vim included --
and langauge-based indention
- anacron used for many system jobs
- termcap, terminfo, and various terms have been modified to support
the Debian Backspace Guidelines for Backspace and Delete, as well
as to make Home and End work consistently
- DocBook support included
- Colorized ls by default (remove
Red Hat 6.2:
Not playing the version game
With Mandrake. Hooray.
Frankly I'm a little sick and tired of some of the people that have just started using Linux, Ya, I know I should be kind and helpful and all that, and I will be helpful and kind, I'm ready to answer any questions I can, to help somebody get a solid understanding of linux and how it works, etc, etc, etc, etc, to my point...
/etc/inetd.conf .. wow, hard eh..
There seems to be a group of you, and I think I know who you are... You've been using Linux for about a year, maybe eighteen months... You probably dual boot or have a Lose98 machine handy.. You pretend to know a lot about linux , You talk a lot when it comes to linux and boast how great it is, how it can do everything and anything, Well except for StarCraft and Quicken... and then you go on to bash RedHat, you know all the profane variations of the Redhat name (redhate, deadrat, rudehat, etc, probbaly another 80 or 90 that I dont know aobut yet).. you continually blast it for being Insecure, full of bugs, unstable, etc etc etc etc, stop repeating what other people say, think for yourself for once...
Let me tell you knuckleheads something, before you go Bashing RedHat, and its a very good distro, yes, even Linus Torvalds uses Redhat (wow, he must be some Lamer dude eh ? ) the Security issue, Okay, two things here, I'll grant you the latitude to bash redhat for their default inetd.conf configuration (its a bit Strange).. But you've got to learn to tidy those things up, if you dont, You aren't worthy to administer a Linux box, Sorry guys thats the way it is. 2nd thing with security, RedHat has probably the best support when it comes to bug/exploit fixes for their rpms, just check their errata page every week to see if something new has popped up (or get on the mailing list, it'll send you mail when a Security Alert has been issued)...
ya, okay, then you go ahead and say "HEY LOOK AT ALL THOSE BUG FIXES ON REDHATS ERRATA, THEIR DISTRO MUST BE FULL OF BUGS AND EXPLOITS !!!!!" I've heard crap very similar to this many times.. Okay you knuckleheads, First of all, when somebody discovers a bufferoverflow in SSH or whatever package you can think up, MANY MANY TIMES it is not distro specific, in english, that means IT AFFECTS ALL Distributions, "OH MY GAWD, DEBIAN IS TAINTED !!! BUT ITS THE PERFECT DISTRO !!! ONLY REAL HACKERS USE DEBIAN!!!!!" (Debian is a great distro, good work you guys, not trying to put you down or anything here)..
Oh, I almost forgot Redhat is the next Microsoft of Linux, how many times have I heard that from you schmucks lately , ohh, lots. I dont have to sit here and prove that it cant happen, I'll be wasting my time, because I know it cant.
The Linux community has Benefitted and profitted so much from Redhat, You just dont know it, 90% of the people that fit into that (1 year to 18 month) range JUST DONT KNOW what they've done, and you guys keep repeating the bullshit your script kiddy friends say.... your all pissing me off.. There is a lot of good info for you guys that is available on the web, even here on slashdot regarding the last 6 or 7 years of Linux History, I SUGGEST YOU ALL GO READ IT AND LEARN. Dont be afraid of the commmandline, I know you guys are scared of that thing, its easy as pie , type ls , rm ~/.netscape/cookies , vi
Either grow up and learn to accept their will be bugs and weird things happening in the first major release of a distro or the alternative is, You better be holding your precious SuSe/debian/mandrake/corel/ distro the same ugly standard as you do redhat when they make a first release.
see ya later you fucken clueless assholes