Orwell - his other writings are apropos to current events;-);-);-)
Many mention/imply that the USA is headed in the direction of Orwell's "1984"... Most appear unaware of Orwell's other writings. For example, Notes on Nationalism:
NEGATIVE NATIONALISM (i) ANGLOPHOBIA. Within the [pseudo?]intelligentsia, a derisive and mildly hostile attitude towards Britain [United States?] is more or less compulsory, but it is an unfaked emotion in many cases. During the war it was manifested in the defeatism of the [pseudo?]intelligentsia, which persisted long after it had become clear that the Axis [Islamo-fascist?] powers could not win. Many people were undisguisedly pleased when Singapore fell ore when the British were driven out of Greece, and there was a remarkable unwillingness to believe in good news, e.g. el Alamein [Iraq? Afghanistan?], or the number of German planes shot down in the Battle of Britain. English [Liberal Western Democracy?] left-wing [pseudo?]intellectuals did not, of course, actually want the Germans or Japanese [Islamo-fascist groups/countries?] to win the war, but many of them could not help getting a certain kick out of seeing their own country humiliated, and wanted to feel that the final victory would be due to Russia [UN? 'world-community'], or perhaps America, and not to Britain. In foreign politics many [pseudo?]intellectuals follow the principle that any faction backed by Britain [United States?] must be in the wrong. As a result, [pseudo?] 'enlightened' opinion is quite largely a mirror-image of Conservative policy. Anglophobia is always liable to reversal, hence that fairly common spectacle, the pacifist of one war who is a bellicist in the next.
BTW, please mention those US Citizens by name (grin;-) who have been harmed by the Patriot Act:
sent to "internal" exile (a la freezing starvation Soviet Gulag or Chinese Communist Laogai )
"Skippy" Moore* might emulate his older (younger?) brother Mike Moore by practicing deceitful editing of your comment in the future 'documentary' GreenWar:
" Hi. I work for Greenpeace.... we support ecoterrorism... Greenpeace has a history of... Violent Direct Actions for more than 30 years.... We do... ecoterrorism.... speaking for Greenpeace,... who just so happens to be an active reader of Slashdot... You might not agree with protesting, but it's... [a] type of terrorism... It's quite obvious that this made the front page because of the people involved and the challenges that those people overcame."
There is no immediately available record that Greenpeace ever took 'Direct Action' against violent dictatorships
If you are still a wee-bit confused about how Mike Moore editing works then you can check out the Babylon 5 episode "Illusion of Truth"
which taught me that:
"truth" might not always be ethical truth
"truth" might actually be a deceitful truth
... remember that Dan Randall (the Babylon 5 news reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts together in an unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore
And finally a fourth "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (minor spoiler warning)
* Note - it is not immediately known whether Mike Moore has an evil twin brother, evil younger brother, evil older brother, and/or sister named "Skippy" Moore
"How the [expletive deleted] do you expect anyone to actually take you seriously?"
People will take me seriously because I do not:
swear as a substitute for thinking
post anonymously
BTW, I also cast my net of knowledge widely. Pulling together a wide variety of information to make my point. Of course, I could be an illiterate slob who swears instead of finding an appropriate word
That being said, you will of course pardon me while I call you a dumb fuck [willfully not capitalized;-];-];-]
Like dude... read widely... think widely... make connections widely
"Insulting the Bush administration, or supporting those that do it for you, with facts no matter how shoddy, is the best way on Slashdot to get modded up and perhaps even worshipped as deity."
Many mention/imply that the USA is headed in the direction of Orwell's "1984" (perhaps F911 is an example of 1984 techniques in action). However, many are not aware of Orwell's other writings. For example, Notes on
Nationalism:
NEGATIVE NATIONALISM (i) ANGLOPHOBIA. Within the intelligentsia [slashdotters?], a derisive and mildly hostile attitude towards Britain
[United States?] is more or less compulsory, but it is an unfaked emotion in many cases. During the war it was manifested in the defeatism of the
intelligentsia [slashdotters?], which persisted long after it had become clear that the
Axis [Islamo-fascist?] powers could not win. Many people were undisguisedly pleased when Singapore fell ore when the British were driven out of Greece, and there was a remarkable unwillingness to believe in good news, e.g. el Alamein
[Iraq? Afghanistan?], or the number of German planes shot down in the Battle of Britain. English [Liberal Western Democracy?] left-wing
intellectuals [slashdotters?] did not, of course, actually want the Germans or Japanese
[Islamo-fascist groups/countries?] to win the war, but many of them could not help getting a certain kick out of seeing their own country humiliated, and wanted to feel that the final victory would be due to Russia [UN? 'world-community'?], or perhaps America, and not to Britain. In foreign politics many intellectuals [slashdotters?] follow the principle that any faction backed by Britain [United States?] must be in the wrong. As a result, 'enlightened' opinion is quite largely a mirror-image of Conservative policy.
Anglophobia is always liable to reversal, hence that fairly common spectacle, the pacifist of one war who is a bellicist in the next.
Babylon 5 - "Illusions of Truth"
Dare I suggest (as I think others have) that sci-fi from the past again provides a window on current events. Those confused/angry about claims that Mike Moore "lies", "distorts the truth", and/or "fabricates" would do well to first watch the Babylon 5 episode "Illusion of Truth"
which taught me that:
"truth" might not always be ethical truth
"truth" might actually be a deceitful truth
... remember that Dan Randall (the Babylon 5 'news' reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts together in an unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore
And finally a fourth "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (minor spoiler warning)
Orwell - his other writings apropos to current events
Many mention/imply that the USA is headed in the direction of Orwell's "1984" (perhaps F911 is an example of 1984 techniques in action). However, many are not aware of Orwell's other writings. For example, Notes on
Nationalism:
NEGATIVE NATIONALISM (i) ANGLOPHOBIA. Within the
[pseudo?]intelligentsia, a derisive and mildly hostile attitude towards Britain
[United States?] is more or less compulsory, but it is an unfaked emotion in
many cases. During the war it was manifested in the defeatism of the
[pseudo?]intelligentsia, which persisted long after it had become clear that the
Axis [Islamo-fascist?] powers could not win. Many people were undisguisedly
pleased when Singapore fell ore when the British were driven out of Greece, and
there was a remarkable unwillingness to believe in good news, e.g. el Alamein
[Iraq? Afghanistan?], or the number of German planes shot down in the Battle of
Britain. English [Liberal Western Democracy?] left-wing
[pseudo?]intellectuals did not, of course, actually want the Germans or Japanese
[Islamo-fascist groups/countries?] to win the war, but many of them could not
help getting a certain kick out of seeing their own country humiliated, and
wanted to feel that the final victory would be due to Russia [UN?
'world-community'], or perhaps America, and not to Britain. In foreign politics
many [pseudo?]intellectuals follow the principle that any faction backed by
Britain [United States?] must be in the wrong. As a result, [pseudo?]
'enlightened' opinion is quite largely a mirror-image of Conservative policy.
Anglophobia is always liable to reversal, hence that fairly common spectacle,
the pacifist of one war who is a bellicist in the next.
I read the article but it did not really address Chris "I drink instead of smoking cloves" Hitchens' points (grin)
I will claim that Mike Moore does not "lie" per se... rather Mike edits "creatively"... May I ask you to read my entire post, consider all the links, especially the Babylon 5 "Illusion of Truth" plot summaries? The DVD is also available. You might also get a kick out of the Orwell aspects.
BTW, Happy 4th:-):-):-)
F911 - deceitful truth
BEGIN EXAMPLE showing Mike Moore being truthful albeit in a deceitful manner:
At the end of F911 Michael Moore quotes Condoleeza Rice as saying,
Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on
9/11.
- Condi Rice as editied by Mike Moore
[snip][snip][snip]
Pretty damning stuff, isn't it? But that was the truncated, Michael Moore
version.
Now for the full, unexpurgated quote:
Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on
9/11. It's not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself and his regime involved
in 9/11, but, if you think about what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies
of hatred that lead people to drive airplanes into buildings in New
York. - Condi Rice without Mike Moore editing
Mike has taken a Condi quote and given it the polar opposite meaning from what she
actually said. Now, Moore fans, consider this. There are literally hundreds, if
not thousands, of hours of video of Condi Rice talking about Iraq. If Condi had
ever actually said that there was a tie between Iraq and 9/11 then Moore would
have used it. So, if the Bush administration had ever actually claimed that
there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq, why would Michael Moore feel the
need to use these kind of editing tricks to try and prove his point?
Because nobody ever said it, and he damn well knows it. His entire premise is
based on a lie.
END EXAMPLE showing Mike Moore being truthful albeit in a deceitful manner Babylon 5 - deceitful truth
If you are still a wee-bit confused about how Mike Moore editing works then you can check out the Babylon 5 episode "Illusion of Truth"
which taught me that:
"truth" might not always be ethical truth
"truth" might actually be a deceitful truth
... remember that Dan Randall (the b5 ISN news reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts together in an unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore
And finally a fourth "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (minor spoiler warning)
Orwell - his other writings apropos to current events
Many mention/imply that the USA is headed in the direction of Orwell's "1984" (perhaps F911 is an example of 1984 techniques in action). However, many are not aware of Orwell's other writings. For example, Notes on
Nationalism:
NEGATIVE NATIONALISM (i) ANGLOPHOBIA. Within the
[pseudo?]intelligentsia, a derisive and mildly hostile attitude towards Britain
[United States?] is more or less compulsory, but it is an
"Most of these claimed 'deceits' by Dave Kopel are really bogus. Many of them aren't deceits at all." in other words "most but NOT all" (grin)
F911 - deceitful truth
BEGIN EXAMPLE
showing Mike Moore being truthful albeit in a deceitful manner:
At the end of F911 Michael Moore quotes Condoleeza Rice as saying,
"
Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on
9/11." - Condi Rice as editied by Mike Moore
[snip][snip][snip]
Pretty damning stuff, isn't it? But that was the truncated, Michael Moore
version.
Now for the full, unexpurgated quote:
"
Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on
9/11. It's not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself and his regime involved
in 9/11, but, if you think about what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies
of hatred that lead people to drive airplanes into buildings in New
York." - Condi Rice without Mike Moore editing
Mike has
taken a Condi quote and given it the polar opposite meaning from what she
actually said. Now, Moore fans, consider this. There are literally hundreds, if
not thousands, of hours of video of Condi Rice talking about Iraq. If Condi had
ever actually said that there was a tie between Iraq and 9/11 then Moore would
have used it. So, if the Bush administration had ever actually claimed that
there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq, why would Michael Moore feel the
need to use these kind of editing tricks to try and prove his point?
Because nobody ever said it, and he damn well knows it. His entire premise is
based on a lie.
END EXAMPLE
showing Mike Moore being truthful albeit in a deceitful manner
Babylon 5 - deceitful truth
If you are still a wee-bit confused about how Mike Moore
editing works then you can check out the Babylon 5 episode
"Illusion of Truth" which taught me that "truth" might not always be
ethical truth and that "truth" might actually be a
deceitful truth... remember that Dan Randall (the b5 ISN
news reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts together in an
unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore
And finally a fourth "Illusion of
Truth" plot summary (minor spoiler warning)
Orwell
Many mention/imply that the USA is headed in the direction of Orwell's "1984" (perhaps F911 is an example of 1984 techniques in action). However, many are not aware of Orwell's other writings. For example, Notes on Nationalism:
NEGATIVE NATIONALISM (i) ANGLOPHOBIA. Within the
[pseudo?]intelligentsia, a derisive and mildly hostile attitude towards Britain
[United States?] is more or less compulsory, but it is an unfaked emotion in
many cases. During the war it was manifested in the defeatism of the
[pseudo?]intelligentsia, which persisted long after it had become clear that the
Axis [Islamo-fascist?] powers could not win. Many people were undisguisedly
pleased when Singapore fell ore when the British were driven out of Greece, and
there was a remarkable unwillingness to believe in good news, e.g. el Al
"If stopping certain content from surfacing again is just a matter of limiting a few companies and organizations, we might even start doubting things we knew happened.
Funny. Reminds me of a book I once read."
F911 - "stopping certain content from surfacing again"
Funny because it reminds me of a movie I am hearing a tremendous amount of buzz about where Mike Moore teaches the concept of editing out-of-context... thus, as you say, "stopping certain content from surfacing again"
BEGIN EXAMPLE showing Mike Moore attempting to "stop certain content from surfacing again":
At the end of F911 Michael Moore quotes Condoleeza Rice as saying,
"
Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11."
- Condi Rice as editied by Mike Moore
As usual, just like he did with the Charlton Heston speech in BFC, Mike plays fast and loose with the truth through the world of editing.
Pretty damning stuff, isn't it? But that was the truncated, Michael Moore version.
Now for the full, unexpurgated quote:
"
Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11. It's not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself and his regime involved in 9/11, but, if you think about what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies of hatred that lead people to drive airplanes into buildings in New York."
- Condi Rice without Mike Moore editing
Mike has taken a Condi quote and given it the polar opposite meaning from what she actually said. Now, Moore fans, consider this. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of hours of video of Condi Rice talking about Iraq. If Condi had ever actually said that there was a tie between Iraq and 9/11 then Moore would have used it. So, if the Bush administration had ever actually claimed that there was a connection between 9/11 and Iraq, why would Michael Moore feel the need to use these kind of editing tricks to try and prove his point?
Because nobody ever said it, and he damn well knows it. His entire premise is based on a lie.
END EXAMPLE showing Mike Moore attempting to "stop certain content from surfacing again"
I dare say this is a good example of how an individual (Mike Moore in F911) has, as you say, attempted to "stop certain content from surfacing again"
Babylon 5 - "stopping certain content from surfacing again"
If you are still a wee-bit confused about how Mike Moore
editing works then you can check out the Babylon 5 episode
"Illusion of Truth" which taught me that "truth" might not always be
ethical truth and that content that exists may be prevented from seeing the light of day... remember that Dan Randall (the b5 ISN
news reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts
together in an unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore
""Some long lost descendent of George Bush,... will invade at least one of these planets.... " to liberate their inhabinets from a murderous tyrant who commits atrocities against civilization similar to what Saddam (Iraq torture video clip) inflicted against the Iraqi people in late-20th century Earth"
Your above post as it might be quoted by your evil twin "Skippy" after having learned a thing or two about
editing out-of-context from Mike Moore
See how Mike Moore editing works? 'Skippy' truthfully quoted what you wrote. Isn't he great. 'Skippy' can now claim that he honestly quoted you. 'Skippy' has the facts correct. You might be angry that 'Skippy' added some extra stuff such that your original intent changes, but you are being mean because 'Skippy' did not put quotes (") around the extra stuff... he just sort of added it at the end of your prediction of the future. Isn't 'Skippy' a swell guy?
If you are still a wee-bit confused about how Mike Moore editing works then you can check out the Babylon 5 episode "Illusion of Truth" which taught me that "truth" might not always be ethical truth...
remember that Dan Randall (the b5 ISN news reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts together in an unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore
"I worked with the company that built the TransSib telemtry... The story comes from a cold-warrior who is selling a book based of tall stories"
Please do tell more... what was the name of the book? Anything like Puzzle Palace? Deep Black? Blind Man's Bluff? I need more geek spook reading material for my library;-);-);-)
"The East Germans were quite good at making chips (optical expertise) - it isn't a coincidence the AMD fab is there."
very true based on this particular Dresden Tech Professional's tale told during a one-week training class I taught in the Netherlands... although he said the better optical people had fled to the West at the end of WWII... claiming that almost all of Zeiss was moved to West Germany in the confusion at the end of WWII
BTW, people tend to forget that Infinion (still cranking out 8051-derivative chips) also has a FAB in Dresden. There were also rumors that DuPont Photomasks was constructing a facility in Dresden also.
"As for training and troubleshooting expertise, whatever wasn't available from the west through the front door often came out of the back."
I guess that probably depends on the product in question:-):-):-)
With respect to petroleum facilities (LNG?) I have to take your word for it.
With respect to what was going on in Warsaw Pact Dresden semiconductor FABS, I have to take his word for it... as he actually lived & worked in a Warsaw pact FAB in the Dresden area and continues to work in either the AMD or the Infinion FAB @ Dresden... for these particular semiconductor capital equipment items at his particular location it was as he said... in otherwords... Export Controls were working successfully to prevent the Warsaw Pact from developing (as quickly, as successfully) same/similar "high-tech" semiconductor chips... this is NOT to say that skilled motivated Warsaw Pact Tech Professionals did not achieve what Spock achieved in the "Edith Keller must die" episode building a mnemonic memory circuit out of bear skins and stone knives ... someone from a NATO country (us included) would demand several interns, an Engineering CAD CAM workstation, months of NRE time, and a color printer for the color Harvard Graphics (i.e. power point) slides;-);-);-)
As I said in my earlier post, there is a ton of neat geek stories to be had if a technology historian would travel around the former Warsaw pact talking with people.
Apologies... I have to step 'n scan into the future although we tend to be scanning more than stepping;-);-);-)
My first civilian job was with a company that exposed me to many former Warsaw pact technology workers... both as employees of the company and as visitors attending training classes
For those looking for a decent PolSci/Econ/History PhD topic or a neat book to write... interview technology workers who lived in Warsaw Pact countries during the Cold War... some pretty interesting stories to be heard and much beer/vodka to be consumed.
One story from an East German Service Engineer about the Warsaw Pact Semiconductor industry trying to make chips with smuggled semi capital equipment but being unable to:
fully operate the equipment - denied technical training due to export restrictions
troubleshoot the equipment - denied technical documentation due to export restrictions (darn the smugglers didn't grab the manuals;-)
get the equipment fixed - denied field service access & technical support due to export restrictions
replenish equipment consumables - denied logistics support due to export restrictions
trust the smugglers - CIA/NSA/MI-5 (or is it 6? no 42!) like to trick smugglers into smuggling broken stuff (e.g. gas pipeline control equipment that goes unstable causing tremendous non-nuclear explosion at Siberia gas liquification facility)
Bottom line - export controls probably work if both enforced and obeyed... beyond the Warsaw pact another example might be South African apartheid ending as a result of economic sanctions (?export controls?)
From the AP article in question one finds a DOJ link that was most interesting:
Foreign Agents Registration Unit (FARA) Counterespionage Section [these are the people who evidently maintain the database in question]
The Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) Unit administers the FARA and maintains a public office to make all registration materials available to the public. In addition, it administers and/or provides advice for certain other statutes related to either matters requiring registration with or notification to the Attorney General.
Public information (ANALOG only cause they use Sperry-Univacs rather than FAA vacuum tube computers - feel safer?) relating to the Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) can be obtained in person at the FARA Registration Unit Public Office located at:
Department of Justice
Registration Unit
1400 New York Avenue, N.W.
1st Floor - Public Office Suite 100
Washington, D.C. 20005
Researching Hours: 11 AM - 3 PM Mon. - Fri.
Filing Hours: 8:30 AM - 5 PM Mon. - Fri.
Having worked at NASA JPL many years ago, I sympathize with the task of trying to move data between Sperry-Univac 1100 written tapes, onto a PR1ME 850 and thence to a NEC 8088-ish PC (ms-dos 3?) with a 5-in floppy AFTER failing with the OCR equipment
J. Michael Straczynski's Babylon 5 "Illusion of Truth" episode leads one to speculate JMS is aware of how "truth" might not always be ethical truth... remember that Dan Randall (the b5 ISN news reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts together in an unethically truthful way
And finally a fourth "Illusion of Truth" plot summary (minor spoiler warning)
Ed Koch (democrat mayor of New York City from 1978 to 1989) might agree there is a need for "Ethical Film Makers"
Disagreeing with America's foreign policy and seeking to change it, responsibly or irresponsibly, is a fundamental right protected by the First Amendment.
Shaming those who do it irresponsibly [unethical Moore?] is our only lawful recourse and rightly so.
Senator John Kerry in criticizing United States' foreign policy and the incumbent president is acting responsibly, albeit I disagree with many of his views. On the other hand, Michael Moore, writer and director of the film "Fahrenheit 9/11," crosses that line regularly. The line is not set forth in the criminal statutes, but it is determined by Americans who know instinctively what actions and statements taken and uttered violate the obligations of responsibility and citizenship they deem applicable in time of war.
Franklin Roosevelt (president of usa during ww2) might agree there is a need for "Ethical Film Makers"
And, finally, there are a few among us who have deliberately and consciously closed their eyes because they were determined to be opposed to their government, its foreign policy and every other policy, to be partisan, and to believe that anything that the Government did was wholly wrong.
To those who have closed their eyes for any of these many reasons, to those who would not admit the possibility of the approaching storm--to all of them the past two weeks have meant the shattering of many illusions.
They have lost the illusion that we are remote and isolated and, therefore, secure against the dangers from which no other land is free.
In some quarters, with this rude awakening has come fear, bordering on panic. It is said that we are defenseless. It is whispered by some that only by abandoning our freedom, our ideals, our way of life, can we build our defenses adequately, can we match the strength of the aggressors.
I did not share those illusions. I do not share these fears
[snip][snip][snip]
But there is an added technique for weakening a nation at its very roots, for disrupting the entire pattern of life of a people. It is important that we understand it.
The method is simple. It is, first, a dissemination of discord. A group--not too large- a group that may be sectional or racial or political--is encouraged to exploit its prejudices through false slogans and emotional appeals. The aim of those who deliberately egg on these groups is to create confusion of counsel, public indecision, political paralysis and, eventually, a state of panic.
Sound national policies come to be viewed with a new and unreasoning skepticism, not through the wholesome political debates of honest and free men, but through the clever schemes of foreign agents.
As a result of these new techniques, armament programs may be dangerously delayed. Singleness of national purpo
Look good to the world for booting Hussein. Opps, that didn't work out to[o] well.... disregard due to no link(s) to supporting data... BTW, it didn't work out too well in post-Nazi Europe/Japan either
Get a [childish expletive deleted]load of money to Halliburton and make him and Cheney some big ass bucks. Didn't you know that Bush also owns a large amount of Halliburton stock?... disregard due to there being no evidence that Bush Jr. ownes any Halliburton stock Bush 2003 Tax Return... perform further research with respect to Cheney due to an "it's a stretch" connection Cheney 2003 Tax Return ... and also here leading to:
The forms Thursday showed he collected $162,392 in deferred compensation [think 401k - therefore this is not the big bad Halliburton connection you claim] from Halliburton Co., the Dallas-based energy services company he headed until Aug. 16, 2000. Cheney elected in 1998 to recoup over five years a portion of the money he made in 1999 as chief executive officer of Halliburton... SUGGESTION: you should chat with some HR compensation folk who can explain this other "deferred compensation" plan (its the 'other' 401k the HR types don't talk about to individual contributors). Most companies have this 'other' 401k plan - lucrative but very restrictive tax-wise - perhaps almost like a blind-trust. However, IANAL also IANACPA
The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to taking life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists, whose real though unacknowledged motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration for totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writing of the younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States... (Orwell's Notes on Nationalism in May 1945)
... and still more from "Orwell's Notes on Nationalism"... thank you Chris Hitchens from tickling my intellect such that I dug for more info... love the internet
The American Enterprise Institute held an unusual video screening [several days ago], and hardly anyone showed up. One who did was the New York Post's Deborah Orin:
The video only lasts four minutes or so--gruesome scenes of torture from the days when Saddam Hussein's thugs ruled Abu Ghraib prison. I couldn't bear to watch, so I walked out until it was over.
Some who stayed wished they hadn't. They told of savage scenes of decapitation, fingers chopped off one by one, tongues hacked out with a razor blade--all while victims shriek in pain and the thugs chant Saddam's praises.
Saddam's henchmen took the videos as newsreels to document their deeds in honor of their leader.
But these awful images didn't show up on American TV news ["the truth is out there" but being hidden from us???].
In fact, just four or five reporters showed up for the screening at the American Enterprise Institute think tank, which says it got the video via the Pentagon. Fewer wrote about it. ["the truth is out there" but being hidden from us???]
[snip][snip][snip]
As Orin notes, this "raises a very complex problem in the War on Terror. It's worse than creating moral equivalence between Saddam's tortures and prisoner abuse by U.S. troops. It's that we do far more to highlight our own [western liberal democracy]wrongdoings precisely because they are less appalling."
Part of the problem may be that the press hasn't quite figured out how to deal with such "asymmetric propaganda," [the internet changes everything;-];-];-] as Orin calls it. Yet it doesn't seem that it would be that hard to provide context--to make sure that every story about American abuses at Abu Ghraib also included graphic descriptions of what went on there before Iraq's liberation.
The video only lasts four minutes or so--gruesome scenes of torture from the days when Saddam Hussein's thugs ruled Abu Ghraib prison. I couldn't bear to watch, so I walked out until it was over.
Some who stayed wished they hadn't. They told of savage scenes of decapitation, fingers chopped off one by one, tongues hacked out with a razor blade--all while victims shriek in pain and the thugs chant Saddam's praises.
Saddam's henchmen took the videos as newsreels to document their deeds in honor of their leader.
But these awful images didn't show up on American TV news.
In fact, just four or five reporters showed up for the screening at the American Enterprise Institute think tank, which says it got the video via the Pentagon. Fewer wrote about it.
We saw part of this video a few weeks back, and indeed it is every bit as horrific as Orin's fellow reporters describe. Our computer crashed about a third of the way through and we didn't have the stomach to start watching again after rebooting. So we can certainly understand why television news outlets would see it as unfit to air.
As Orin notes, this "raises a very complex problem in the War on Terror. It's worse than creating moral equivalence between Saddam's tortures and prisoner abuse by U.S. troops. It's that we do far more to highlight our own wrongdoings precisely because they are less appalling."
Part of the problem may be that the press hasn't quite figured out how to deal with such "asymmetric propaganda," [the internet changes everything;-];-];-] as Orin calls it. Yet it doesn't seem that it would be that hard to provide context--to make sure that every story about American abuses at Abu Ghraib also included graphic descriptions of what went on there before Iraq's liberation.
Reunite Church and State?
Maybe the government should give funding to churches. Do you think they also fund mosques?
Your link contradicts your argument... we find the Federal Government (ever mindful of the constitutional separation of church and state;-) has addressed the issue (the DEVIL is in the details;-):
Partnering with the Federal Government: Some Do's and Don'ts for Faith-Based Organizations
If I cannot take government money to support religious activity, how do I separate our religious activities from our Federally-funded social service program?link
Money Quote:A faith-based organization should take steps to ensure that its inherently religious activities, such as religious worship, instruction, or proselytization, are separate - in time or location - from the government-funded services that it offers.link
BTW, the term "faith based" would appear to include "mosques." Any evidence that it does not?
Tax breaks that only benefit the rich?
Here's whatPaul Krugmanhad to say on the subject.
Ah Yes... noted
Enron Advisor Paul Krugman... there is now a large number of Krugman readers - The Krugman Truth Squad who have a knack for catching Krugman making inaccurate and often false statements regarding the economy.
Reunite Church and State?UNCheck... due to no links to supporting data
Hold citizens with[something missing;-);-);-)] trial or bail?UNCheck... due to no links to supporting data
Nation building without proper cause?UNCheck... due to no links to supporting data
Tax breaks that only benefit the rich? UNCheck... due to no links to supporting data
Dismantle the EPA and let Corporations write Enviro Laws?UNCheck... due to no links to supporting data
Create a Police State where you can spy on cizitens with impunity? Pending/already going on ??? no links to supporting data
Famous Phrase To Know and Love: "data talks and bullshit walks"... Where are your links to data supporting your claims???
This nation has gone to Hell and the changes they are making and have already made are going to haunt us for the next 50 years. [childish expletive removed]... Dude, you are like several decades/centuries late and an Euro short... Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it:
After sending me money you too can learn how to make money from home by opposing the PATRIOT Act
As of today, two organizations utilizing "FUD" marketing principles are attempting to earn money from home to support their Brie & Strawberry addictions.
Only by sending me money now to my Nigerian Bank Account will you move from the Ruby to Emerald Level of the "Earn Money From Home By Sowing Patriot Act FUD (EMFHBSPFUD)"... learn what these individuals have not yet learned.
You must act now!!!!
You must act now!!!!
You must act now!!!!
[HUMOR OFF:-(:-(:-(]
... link for those who have never bothered to read the PATRIOT Act source documentation
I only need an explanation if I need amusement... it is fun both watching & listening to a lil script kiddy conformist get spun up over the 'big bad' PATRIOT Act while they demonstrate zero sense of perspective or history. How surprised the lil script kiddy conformists get when they surf the net, discovering that which they never learned:
Reading the source document PATRIOT Act instead of reading something about the PATRIOT Act written by an organization seeking funds for more Brie & Strawberry parties.
Reading the source document EO 9066 and visiting Manzanar everytime they cruise so quickly by it on their way to Mammoth or Tahoe to smoke dope, drink mundane beer and surf the slopes.
Reading Alexander Solzhenitsyn's account of the Soviet Gulag
BTW, if there is another 9/11 then I have no doubt that it will get much worse than the Holocaust... Gen. Franks Doubts Constitution Will Survive WMD Attack... I hope the innocent vicitims caught in the net will have exercised their Second Amendment Rights. Will you be their beside them VIOLENTLY DEFENDING their rights or will you bleat like a sheep thinking they deserve to be herded into Camps because they happen to be the same ethnic group as the terrorists and they also compete for your script kiddy programmer job.
No illusions about the outcome of the VIOLENT DEFENSE of rights... read about the Warsaw Ghetto
Slashdot Mirror
Many mention/imply that the USA is headed in the direction of Orwell's "1984"
BTW, please mention those US Citizens by name (grin
sent to "internal" exile (a la freezing starvation Soviet Gulag or Chinese Communist Laogai )
tortured a la Saddam's Iraq vice "abused"
deprived of their civil rights a la Manzanar
... remember that Dan Randall (the Babylon 5 news reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts together in an unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore
* Note - it is not immediately known whether Mike Moore has an evil twin brother, evil younger brother, evil older brother, and/or sister named "Skippy" MoorePeople will take me seriously because I do not:
swear as a substitute for thinking
post anonymously
BTW, I also cast my net of knowledge widely. Pulling together a wide variety of information to make my point. Of course, I could be an illiterate slob who swears instead of finding an appropriate word
That being said, you will of course pardon me while I call you a dumb fuck [willfully not capitalized ;-];-];-]
Like dude ... read widely ... think widely ... make connections widely
The American Enterprise Institute has a very dry panel discussion of the torture video on this page
The Iraq Torture Video:
Many mention/imply that the USA is headed in the direction of Orwell's "1984" (perhaps F911 is an example of 1984 techniques in action). However, many are not aware of Orwell's other writings. For example, Notes on Nationalism:
One last thing ... I triple double dare slashdotters to watch the Iraq torture
video clip
Dare I suggest (as I think others have) that sci-fi from the past again provides a window on current events. Those confused/angry about claims that Mike Moore "lies", "distorts the truth", and/or "fabricates" would do well to first watch the Babylon 5 episode "Illusion of Truth" which taught me that:
Orwell - his other writings apropos to current events
Many mention/imply that the USA is headed in the direction of Orwell's "1984" (perhaps F911 is an example of 1984 techniques in action). However, many are not aware of Orwell's other writings. For example, Notes on Nationalism:
One last thing ... I triple double dare you to watch the Iraq torture
video clip
I will claim that Mike Moore does not "lie" per se ... rather Mike edits "creatively" ... May I ask you to read my entire post, consider all the links, especially the Babylon 5 "Illusion of Truth" plot summaries? The DVD is also available. You might also get a kick out of the Orwell aspects.
BTW, Happy 4th :-):-):-)
F911 - deceitful truth
END EXAMPLE showing Mike Moore being truthful albeit in a deceitful manner
Babylon 5 - deceitful truth
If you are still a wee-bit confused about how Mike Moore editing works then you can check out the Babylon 5 episode "Illusion of Truth" which taught me that:
"truth" might not always be ethical truth
"truth" might actually be a deceitful truth
Orwell - his other writings apropos to current events
Many mention/imply that the USA is headed in the direction of Orwell's "1984" (perhaps F911 is an example of 1984 techniques in action). However, many are not aware of Orwell's other writings. For example, Notes on Nationalism:
F911 - deceitful truth
END EXAMPLE showing Mike Moore being truthful albeit in a deceitful manner
Babylon 5 - deceitful truth ... remember that Dan Randall (the b5 ISN
news reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts together in an
unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore
If you are still a wee-bit confused about how Mike Moore editing works then you can check out the Babylon 5 episode "Illusion of Truth" which taught me that "truth" might not always be ethical truth and that "truth" might actually be a deceitful truth
Orwell
Many mention/imply that the USA is headed in the direction of Orwell's "1984" (perhaps F911 is an example of 1984 techniques in action). However, many are not aware of Orwell's other writings. For example, Notes on Nationalism:
END EXAMPLE showing Mike Moore attempting to "stop certain content from surfacing again"
I dare say this is a good example of how an individual (Mike Moore in F911) has, as you say, attempted to "stop certain content from surfacing again" Babylon 5 - "stopping certain content from surfacing again" ... remember that Dan Randall (the b5 ISN
news reporter) was very truthful... he just strung the facts
together in an unethically truthful way just like Mike Moore
If you are still a wee-bit confused about how Mike Moore editing works then you can check out the Babylon 5 episode "Illusion of Truth" which taught me that "truth" might not always be ethical truth and that content that exists may be prevented from seeing the light of day
Orwell ...
You wrote "reminds me of a book I once read"
One last thing ... I triple double dare you to watch the Saddam (Iraq torture video clip)
For those looking for a decent PolSci/Econ/History PhD topic or a neat book to write ... interview technology workers who lived in Warsaw Pact countries during the Cold War ... some pretty interesting stories to be heard and much beer/vodka to be consumed.
One story from an East German Service Engineer about the Warsaw Pact Semiconductor industry trying to make chips with smuggled semi capital equipment but being unable to:
Bottom line - export controls probably work if both enforced and obeyedEd Koch (democrat mayor of New York City from 1978 to 1989) might agree there is a need for "Ethical Film Makers"
Franklin Roosevelt (president of usa during ww2) might agree there is a need for "Ethical Film Makers"
Some say the Second Amendment Protects the First Amendment
"Reichsminister Ashcroft"??? ... you may have violated Godwin's Law
Avenge the threats against his father ... disregard due to no links to supporting data and it contradicts the available evidence Joint Authorization and US Public Law 105-338 and UN Report on Subject (read all 17-pages :-) and UN Resolutions violated by Iraq (btw, each resolution had 'diplo-speak' as in "serious consequences" authorizing war - don't say the US did it without the UN ;-)
Look good to the world for booting Hussein. Opps, that didn't work out to[o] well. ... disregard due to no link(s) to supporting data ... BTW, it didn't work out too well in post-Nazi Europe/Japan either
Get a [childish expletive deleted]load of money to Halliburton and make him and Cheney some big ass bucks. Didn't you know that Bush also owns a large amount of Halliburton stock? ... disregard due to there being no evidence that Bush Jr. ownes any Halliburton stock Bush 2003 Tax Return ... perform further research with respect to Cheney due to an "it's a stretch" connection Cheney 2003 Tax Return ... and also here leading to:
From Christopher Hitchens' review of "Unfairenheit 9/11":
In the interest of balance and intellectual honesty, you might wish to also link to the Iraqi Torture Video
hand amputation
finger chopping
beating with metal pipe
arm breaking with metal pipe
... presumably more videos exist but DOD refuses to release them
From the Wall Street Jounal Online Edition:
hand amputation
finger chopping
beating with metal pipe
arm breaking with metal pipe
... presumably more videos exist but DOD refuses to release them
From the Wall Street Jounal Online Edition
Reunite Church and State? Maybe the government should give funding to churches. Do you think they also fund mosques?
Your link contradicts your argument ... we find the Federal Government (ever mindful of the constitutional separation of church and state ;-) has addressed the issue (the DEVIL is in the details ;-):
BTW, the term "faith based" would appear to include "mosques." Any evidence that it does not?
Tax breaks that only benefit the rich? Here's what Paul Krugman had to say on the subject.
More to follow ...
Appears Warren might be concerned he'll finally have to pay a dividend to his stock holders one of these days.
Again ... "data talks & bullshit walks"
Reunite Church and State? UNCheck ... due to no links to supporting data
Hold citizens with[something missing ;-);-);-)] trial or bail? UNCheck ... due to no links to supporting data
Nation building without proper cause? UNCheck ... due to no links to supporting data
Tax breaks that only benefit the rich? UNCheck ... due to no links to supporting data
Dismantle the EPA and let Corporations write Enviro Laws? UNCheck ... due to no links to supporting data
Create a Police State where you can spy on cizitens with impunity? Pending/already going on ??? no links to supporting data
... Where are your links to data supporting your claims???
... Dude, you are like several decades/centuries late and an Euro short ... Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it:
Famous Phrase To Know and Love: "data talks and bullshit walks"
This nation has gone to Hell and the changes they are making and have already made are going to haunt us for the next 50 years. [childish expletive removed]
Sedition Act of 1918
Sedition Act of 1798
A remembrance from "The Decade of Greed (1990s)" and its fun stock market bubble with its "White Stain of Courage"
After sending me money you too can learn how to make money from home by opposing the PATRIOT Act
As of today, two organizations utilizing "FUD" marketing principles are attempting to earn money from home to support their Brie & Strawberry addictions.
CAE Defense Fund
ACLU
... learn what these individuals have not yet learned.
:-(:-(:-(]
... link for those who have never bothered to read the PATRIOT Act source documentation
Only by sending me money now to my Nigerian Bank Account will you move from the Ruby to Emerald Level of the "Earn Money From Home By Sowing Patriot Act FUD (EMFHBSPFUD)"
You must act now!!!!
You must act now!!!!
You must act now!!!!
[HUMOR OFF
The guy also seems to have an interesting blog albeit focused on his hobby ... studying the damage of the Eugenics Movement has done to humanity
Reading the source document PATRIOT Act instead of reading something about the PATRIOT Act written by an organization seeking funds for more Brie & Strawberry parties.
Reading the source document EO 9066 and visiting Manzanar everytime they cruise so quickly by it on their way to Mammoth or Tahoe to smoke dope, drink mundane beer and surf the slopes.
Reading Alexander Solzhenitsyn's account of the Soviet Gulag
(McCarthy && HUAC) != any americans shot, tortured, exiled, imprisoned, etc
(McCarthy && HUAC) != Cuban Isle of Pines
BTW, if there is another 9/11 then I have no doubt that it will get much worse than the Holocaust ... Gen. Franks Doubts Constitution Will Survive WMD Attack ... I hope the innocent vicitims caught in the net will have exercised their Second Amendment Rights. Will you be their beside them VIOLENTLY DEFENDING their rights or will you bleat like a sheep thinking they deserve to be herded into Camps because they happen to be the same ethnic group as the terrorists and they also compete for your script kiddy programmer job.
No illusions about the outcome of the VIOLENT DEFENSE of rights ... read about the Warsaw Ghetto