Slashdot Mirror
More On The Open Sourcing Of Iraq
popdookey writes "
The BBC's broadcast, The World,
has run a piece on the growing Linux movement in Iraq as was previously reported
here on Slashdot. 'In Iraq, a group of
computer users has started writing open source
computer code. They're Linux enthusiasts. The idea is to make low-cost,
home-grown software and is said to hold great promise for developing
countries. It could leapfrog Iraq into a more competitive future. The
World technology reporter Clark Boyd reports.'"
now bill gates gonna invade iraq too
Iraq is anti-US. They code Linux stuff in Iraq. Ergo, Linux is anti-US. Bomb Linux!
Sigs for Nerds. Sigs that Matter.
Iraq is downloading communism! Torvalds for president! Stallman for information minister!
It's just nice seeing a linux article (featuring Iraqis ) that doesn't paint Linux users as terrorists. Don't let Didio interview them, she'll spin an article like "Iraqi Terrorists create KJihad which is what we knew all those Linux users were up to anyways. "
Nice blurb. Hope Iraq recovers just to face the same job market as over here. Sorry... Yes, someone already peed in my cornflakes.
-B
My favorite quote from the founder:
"I wanted to find people to share knowledge with; to learn from them; to speak with guys who share my thoughts."
He also talks about how the use of open-source software preventing the monopolization of the market by corporations, a big issue in all economic spheres in Iraq right now.
Sure it's idealistic and a long way off for most Iraqis, but it could be the seeds of important alternatives for the Iraqi people.
And finally a good sign: "Microsoft refused the be interviewed for this report."
it' Windows(c). if you want it to work, it's Linux.
"If a boss demands loyalty, give him integrity. But if he demands integrity, give him loyalty." (John Boyd, 1927-1997)
I'd like to listen to that report, but unfortunately I did not yet discover how I am supposed to playback a WMA file (Windows Media Player format) on my Debian box. :-(
There is a, IIRC, recently formed Linux user group in Iraq: http://www.iraqilinux.org/ IMHO it's a good change for open source to make an impact if Iraq's public services are going to have the opportunity to make a fresh start on handover.
You've probably noticed that people's noses get bigger as they get older. That's because old people are huge liars.
I thought there were restrictions on exporting Linux from the US to Iraq (which somehow mysteriously don't apply to MS)?
I have just got back from a conference in Slovenia at Cyberpipe which was full of Linux and open-source enthusiasts developing software that was situated locally.
And of course, there are also political and economic implications of Linux as it allows countries to avoid the costly licensing problems of Windows etc and also avoid the reliance on the US for closed technologies.
There were some extremely innovative lo-tech hi-tech solutions to problems. For example re-use of old 8080 PCs with Linux installed to control various devices - one in particular was a 12 bank screen for projecting images using old black and white monitors.
---- The Open Source Record Label : : LOCARECORDS.COM
What kind of f'ed up imperialism is this?
They should be required to buy US software!
I'm writing my representatives.
Maybe poor countries developing Free software is just what we need to keep the GNU/L bloat under control.
I would have thought that George W Bush's administration have already awarded the contract to Microsoft.
First, SPA "License Inspectors" are sent in. All they find is Free Software. Undaunted, Bill Gates sends in his own lawyers...
Then it's a year later and the WMA's still haven't been found.
Actually its just the opposite that linux today [Wired news] reported few days back. Slow going for linux in Iraq
fifteen jugglers, five believers
No, they have PlayStation2s running Linux.
patent law isnt written by Microsoft like the proposed EU's.. yet.
"/Dread"
I actually heard reports that they were running Linux on Xbox, until they realized the Xbox would make a better weapon against the US invasion.
Weapons of Mass Applications?
I lost you there.
"We can confirm that Debian does *not* ship the version with the trojan horse. Our version predates it." [CA-2002-28]
This is definitely THE major "backdoor" into Windows market share. While in most developed coutries Linux must open it's way into an already large Windows user base which has economical resources to buy the licences, in developing countries it has the opportunity to get a fresh start PLUS a user base that will hardly be able to pay Windows licences!
As this applies not only to home users but also to governments in these conditions, this is a major victory. As these countries increasingly become the agricultural and industrial centers of our globalised economy, while the developed countries become information and knowledge producers, the need to interface may leed to:
1 - The adoption of open middleware standards
2 - The widespread use of Free Open Source software
Either way, Open Source gets something out of it! :)
> It could leapfrog Iraq into a more competitive future.
First they'd need to figure out the elusive step 2, you know, in the business plan.
Cantankerous old coot since 1957.
Does anyone know the url of the group reported in the article? I did not hear a domain name or any kind of name mentioned. Any more information about this group would be great if anyone knows a bit more about it.
Sleep is futile.
I don't know.... how dumb *can* you be?
Much of the development effort behind Linux now comes from USA and code is stored on servers in USA. Last time I looked, USA was still in the world atlas and saying "it's purely global" (if that even means something in real terms - what do you mean by 'purely' there?) or even "it was started by a Finnish student" doesn't really make any difference if the people moving Linux into Iraq are moving it from USA. Whether or not it's the product of a US corporation, US restrictions may apply when you are taking something from the US to Iraq. It has been in the news recently although I couldn't find the link earlier.
I suspect you are not dumb, just bored and trolling?
Linux is the Free/Open Source UNIX-like operating system kernel that runs on many modern computer systems. Linux is available under the GNU General Public License, which means that users may freely copy, change, and distribute it, but must make source code available to recipients and may not impose any restrictions on further distribution. Linux does contain some security features that use encryption. As such, it is classified under ECCN 5D002. Because Linux is open source, it is eligible for export under License Exception TSU in accordance with 15 CFR 740.13(e).
On May 7, the President exercised his authority under the Wartime Supplemental Authorization Act of 2003 to suspend most of the provisions of the Iraq Sanctions Act of 1990. On June 27, 2003, the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) published an interim final rule (68 Fed. Reg. 38188) amending the Iraqi Sanctions Regulations, 31 CFR part 575, to include a general license authorizing certain new transactions. The export of items controlled by the Department of Commerce was addressed in 31 CFR 575.533(b)(2):
The exportation from the United States or, if subject to U.S. jurisdiction, the exportation or rexportation from a third country to Iraq of any goods or technology (including technical data or other information) controlled by the Department of Commerce under the Export Administration Regulations (15 CFR chapter VII, subchapter C) for exportation to Iraq must be separately authorized by or pursuant to this part.
The term "controlled by the Department of Commerce" means subject to a license requirement under the Department of Commerce's Export Administration Regulations (EAR). Items subject to a license requirement under the EAR include items on the Commerce Control List that are listed in 15 CFR 746.3 as requiring a license for exportation or reexportation to Iraq.
Under Section 746.3 of the EAR, an export license is required to export or reexport to Iraq any item on the CCL containing a NS Column 1 in the Country Chart Column of the License Requirements section of an ECCN. Software classified under ECCN 5D002 is controlled for NS Column 1.
It is important to note that proprietary operating system software such as Microsoft Windows and Sun Solaris have been classified as mass-market encryption products and are eligible for export under ECCN 5D992. These products may be exported to Iraq without a license under the interim final rule (68 Fed. Reg. 38188) amending the Iraqi Sanctions Regulations.
Under the provisions of License Exception TSU, open source and the corresponding object code may be exported to all destinations except Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria. Thus, open source and the corresponding object code are treated as if subject only to AT (anti-terrorism) controls. Items subject to AT controls may be exported to Iraq under the interim final rule (68 Fed. Reg. 38188) amending the Iraqi Sanctions Regulations.
Source: http://linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7318
Contrary to the more obvious knee-jerk reaction and wisecracks this post might invoke, I can can understand how the populace of Iraq feels having been subject to years of anarchy, tyranny and then several years of painful, forced and widely questioned war
We have all seen dozens of documentaries and newsreports of what the people have Iraq have had to face, especially since this new war
Yet, in a way, things can only become better. Perhaps the fanatics/militants will target something else (or at least outside Iraq) once the formal hand-over/creation of a sovereign Iraq is completed (think its only 9 days to go now).
The people of Iraq realize the only way forward is to make the most use of whatever resources available, be it hardware or software. Most services and businesses need technology, and though hardware costs cannot be eliminated entirely, open source software solutions go a long way in reducing costs.
http://efil.blogspot.com/
What he means is that once any code has left the US US restrictions no longer apply to that code at that non US location. It need only "escape" once, through some means or other, and then it is "free."
Why would the Iraqis download Linux from the US when they can download the French Mandrake from Paris, Prague, or Dresden?
KFG
I'd be really interested to hear from Slovenian posters about the economic state of their country, being described as "developing". Last time I was there (1999) it seemed a lot more developed than large parts of the USA (statement not flamebait). Can more informed posters contribute? noting that it was part of the former Soviet Union doesn't wash as a response, so was Estonia and I believe Estonia is now one of the most wired up countries in the world...
After all, they already have the beards, and I'm sure sandals are pretty popular in the Arabian desert ;-)
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Quick, call the marines!
I actually heard reports that they were running Linux on Xbox, until they realized the Xbox would make a better weapon against the US invasion.
By throwing the Xboxes at US soldiers? I don't think anyone could survive that....
Now if the electricity would stay on for more than two hours at a time, they'll be set.
etc.
Trolling using another account since 2005.
Much of the development effort behind Linux now comes from USA
Only in the sense that Linus now lives there.
and code is stored on servers in USA.
Actually it is all over the planet. Quite a bit of OSS is deliberatly developed outside of the US because of the political minefield of "export restrictions" which exist.
Thing is, we're all assuming the average Iraqi, or even the average Iraqi government minister, *cares* about licensing issues. They don't. This is a country where you can buy pirated CDs with anything you want for next to nothing. If they decide to go with Microsoft products, they'll buy them for a fistful of dinars, install them, and use them for the next three generations with nary a thought of a visit from Redmond copyright police. If Iraq becomes the next bastion of software freedom and advances the cause of FOSS throughout the world, it will be because FOSS DOES THE JOB. Not because of pure idealism, or any longing to breathe free air after decades of tyranny. It's a good opportunity for FOSS advocates to break into an emerging market, but the focus needs to be on the capabilites, ease of use, great support, and security of future development -- not licensing platitudes.
Yes, yes, of course it will. Jesus Christ. Does anyone here actually, truly and genuinely believe that a handful of Linux users in Iraq are going to make the nation more competitive when their main natural resource (oil) is being plundered so freely by The West?
Linux is not the answer to all of the world's problems. Oh, hold on, here's an idea. Stop 'coding' yet another MP3 ripper for KDE, get out a pen and some paper and start writing to your congressmen about the Allies' invasion and occupation of Iraq.
Free software may help Iraq in the future, but it won't do Jack Shit until they get the rest of their immediate problems sorted first.
This has happened before; when the former eastern bloc countries wanted to get on the Internet when the iron curtain came down, despite being not especially wealthy, they bought current equipment. As a result, for many years, sites in countries such as Slovenia and Poland were faster than sites in France and Germany that were making do with equipment they'd bought many years earlier.
--
Does US-developed code really become 'free' after 'escaping' USA?
Is there liability for letting the code 'escape' the country and if so on whom would the liability fall?
If you are a US Linux server provider, can you be held liable if you provide the means of 'escape' of the code to a mirror site?
What if you are "actively conspiring" to circumvent the restrictions by doing this?
What is the current legal structure operating within Iraq (which is essentially under US occupation)?
Could it effect imports into Iraq regardless of exporting country?
I used import in the title but export on the thought that lay behind it - this was not a typo. I don't know the answers to the above questions but if you are in the USA and involved in coding or distributing Linux out of the country you should probably give them some thought. If you are outside the USA, you should still probably give them some thought.
Try xfce. A lightweight desktop environment.
As usual, the article does not address the issue of sustainability of Open Source projects. If the market in Iraq is small, and there is little money for anything, all the more reason for promoting respect for IP. The way to stay alive may not be fat contracts but decent residuals.
...if it weren't for one of the people most vilified by slashdotters. It seems a little ironic that people who are so against what the Bush administration has done in Iraq are so excited about the freedoms that the Iraqi people are starting to see as a result of those actions. Yeah - Bush has problems, but the course in Iraq was the right one to take.
Addlepated - punk & metal
If your country was over-run by invaders who have just bombed the fuck out of *everything*, are you going to spend *all* your time building and fixing and digging trenches and laying pipe and all the rest of it? Or are you going to kick back and spend the evening drinking beer and geeking to chill out a bit?
Linux of mass distribution...
Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)
we're not open sourcing iraq, we're "freeing" it from evil.
I write code.
I was a bit realistic when I said it's going to take between 2 and 5 years t have a solid base to build on. Tons of challenges down there now, security is the bigest issue.
:P. basically Linux can save Iraq (as a governement and/or businesses operate there) large sums of money by implementing it in government and businesses establishments and in educational institues for both server and desktop environments.
Iraq does have a large technology work force, they lack direction and lack resources. Just so you know, Iraq governement and educational institues been running Unix since the 1970s on mainly ICL mainframes (International Computers Ltd., too bad they are gone now). I personally knew few Unix gurus in Iraq and it's just a matter of time to contact them and show them Linux.
Linux isn't the solution for everything, but I beleive Linux can do a great job in the servers and office desktop environments, home users will still want to play their favorite game or watch some DMCA compliant movies
again, it's going to take time. So let's stay hopefull.
Won't somebody please think of the Karma!
The remote exploited bugs.
The source code beheadings.
One day you have a kernel running things around and the next day a new kernel is installed bringing lot of compatibility and continuity issues.
You keep sending troops of coders and the project deadline just gets delayed.
For every patch applied there is a new breach.
I18n is something far away from reality.
Documentation is confuse, what is true for a group is a lie for others.
Project leaders are only to be found in spider holes.
If you don't carry a gun nobody takes you seriously.
If you think Gnome and KDE are the only ones on war you don't know your Iraq.
The shells just keep blowing up.
The delivery of updates is not possible due the terrible conditions the infrastructure is.
Peace.
Sy Hersh did an excellent job debunking that hoax at the time.
I wonder if the Chinese software pirates and the growing adoption of Linux in China are symptoms of the same underlying factor. Could it be that Linux appeals because of its Marxist flavour and that piracy is rife because there is a psychological leaning away from privately owned/controlled intellectual property? Afterall, if property is theft then you're simply stealing back from thieves when you pirate their code.
What input to Linux has there been from the former Soviet East Europe?
Seems to me that OSS requires a few basics to flourish (although it can probably do without the full list if there's a particularly high weighting elsewhere):
- Availability of a communications/organisational network (i.e. the Internet)
- Affordability of basic computer hardware
- A recognised need for open, reliable, cheap software
- Availability of open code to use as the basis for development
- Skilled coders with time on their hands or who are able to make the time they need
- A culture which leads to a willingness to share the results of work
If you don't have all of these, I think development is liable to get stunted.
why develope linux in iraq if nobody can afford a pc??
Open source is never more relevant to Iraq. The whole idea was to open source the oil.
You get some of it with
ftp oilfield.com
Maybe not. It's been slashdotted.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
"Enduring Freedom" :D
>It could leapfrog Iraq into a more competitive future
Great. More programmers working for $2 a day.
Unofficially from CP|team, Slovenia...
e =album108&id=P1010029&op=modload&name=gallery&file =index&include=view_photo.php
1. the videowall runs on 486, most of them dx2 66mhz, 8mb ram
2. it also has a server that is dual P933, which also serves 15 free, public LTSP terminals for browsing the web, chatting etc. LTSP terminals are recycled P100
3. it uses modified version of aalib and can play anything mplayer can play
4. picture is here http://www.kiberpipa.org/modules.php?set_albumNam
5. decision to recycle, to combine lo-hi tech etc is not only practical, but also deeply policital
6. slovenia is not a developing country (at least according to the world bank), but who cares.
7. politically state of affairs in slovenia is grose. though open source is used to extort at least some discounts from microsoft. one part of the goverment is actually very OS aware and there are pilot projects running... the awareness varies a lot.
8. Govrnment actually gives some money each year for the OS/free software projects in terms of prizes and grants. This year there was more than 80.000 EUR available, exclusively for OS projects.
This helps a lot of OS projects, localizations etc.
9. standard of living here is maybe not as high as in the states or the more developed parts of EU, but many people (forginers) agree that it is much less stresful. Some of them really like Ljubljana (the capital).
10. Visit us in Cyberpipe if you are nearby! We are glad to host presentations about OS/free software projects, artists that deal with IT technology, VJ/DJ performances... we cannot offer honorarium, but can take care of accomodation.
Mod this up, pelase!
If you doubt this and think that Iraq's new constitution and laws won't favor the US remember that it's Hillary Rosen, former head of the RIAA, that's writing their Copyright Laws.
The move to OSS for Iraq is IMO the right and good thing for them and the OSS community, the move to an open data format for their information is just as important.
While Bush calls Iraqis "equal partners" he treats them like "sand ni--ers". I apologize for using that phrase but it's truly apropos. Like I said, they're 0wn3d. The widespread use of OSS in their goverment is, IMO, a DOA issue.
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
I was just wondering how far down the page I'd have to scroll to see another "hold everything and feed the children first" merchant. Looks like the concept of a country full of people being able to tackle two problems at once still hasn't sunk in on /.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
So they are having elections in Iraq in 9 days? It's not a free country until they have elected leaders.
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
In short. Greed and Evil are killing Iraq from within. We may chastize the Americans, but sometimes the worst enemy one has is ourselves.
"Now if the electricity would stay on for more than two hours at a time, they'll be set."
Stop blowing up your infrastructure, after it's been fixed.
Jihadux: The only linux distribution optimized for jihad. You can recompile your kernel, browse the web for beheading videos with Konqueror, and type letters in OpenOffice, which delivers the office productivity tools you need to destroy all Zionists and Crusaders.
Junis and his Commodore 64 moved there a couple of years ago.
Bill can't have Iraq, because according to the title of the article, Iraq has been open sourced.
Now that Iraq is GPLed, maybe we can figure out why it has been acting so buggy. I'm not a programmer, but I suspect that it has something to do with its relgious algorithms.
testing out my trending skills
The story was about the growth of Linux in Iraq. But what about non-Linux operating systems? Are Net/FreeBSD banned because of their mascot, but OpenBSD not because its mascot is Puffy? Enquiring minds want to know!
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
I think it's really cool that linux is gaining ground in Iraq, but the grandparent poster is correct -- linux isn't going to stop the the looting, it's not going to solve the security situation, it's not going to work without electricity, and it's not going to bring freedom or stability to a nation teetering on the brink of civil war.
You'll have to forgive the Iraqis if they aren't yet jumping for joy about the open source revolution; they may have other things on their minds right now.
In the interest of balance and intellectual honesty, you might wish to also link to the Iraqi Torture Video
hand amputation
finger chopping
beating with metal pipe
arm breaking with metal pipe
... presumably more videos exist but DOD refuses to release them
From the Wall Street Jounal Online Edition:
I believe Juanita
Why didn't the US simply have Hussein charged with war crimes and brought in front of the WCC like Slobodan Milosevic? Also there are countries in a lot worse shape like Burma/Myanmar yet I don't see Bush running in there. Oh, I forgot, Bush cut an oil pipeline deal with their dictator while their elected leader, Aung San Suu Kyi, has sat under house arrest for over ten years. BTW, that pipeline is being built with mostly slave labor.
The main reasons Bush invaded was to:
Avenge the threats against his father
Look good to the world for booting Hussein. Opps, that didn't work out to well.
Get a shit load of money to Halliburton and make him and Cheney some big ass bucks. Didn't you know that Bush also owns a large amount of Halliburton stock?
Bush is also a piece of shit for sending troops in without enough proper body armour or armour plated vehicles. And before you blame Kerry for it (like the RNC is telling you to) Bush could've signed an Executive Order to get those items to the boots on the ground. As a six year US Vet the man sickens me.
Let's not forget that Bush did not attend his reserve drills for over two years (starting just before the military started regular drug testing). Anything over thirty days is desertion.
Two wrongs don't make a right. Replacing one dictator with another doesn't fix anything.
No! This is Slashdot. We'll be discussing everything except the article
Some articles are too over-the-top for even me. This is one of them.
On June 30 a puppet gubment will be put in place and everything will be so cool except for the exploding oil pipelines and rigs. How is anyone supposed to take the issue of Linux use in that country seriously?
You're assuming that there will be a significant population left after America's illegal war on Iraq for anyone to care.
Avenge the threats against his father ... disregard due to no links to supporting data and it contradicts the available evidence Joint Authorization and US Public Law 105-338 and UN Report on Subject (read all 17-pages :-) and UN Resolutions violated by Iraq (btw, each resolution had 'diplo-speak' as in "serious consequences" authorizing war - don't say the US did it without the UN ;-)
Look good to the world for booting Hussein. Opps, that didn't work out to[o] well. ... disregard due to no link(s) to supporting data ... BTW, it didn't work out too well in post-Nazi Europe/Japan either
Get a [childish expletive deleted]load of money to Halliburton and make him and Cheney some big ass bucks. Didn't you know that Bush also owns a large amount of Halliburton stock? ... disregard due to there being no evidence that Bush Jr. ownes any Halliburton stock Bush 2003 Tax Return ... perform further research with respect to Cheney due to an "it's a stretch" connection Cheney 2003 Tax Return ... and also here leading to:
From Christopher Hitchens' review of "Unfairenheit 9/11":
I believe Juanita
I read the article: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=04/06/21/22392 47
and the interview:
http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/0 2/02/1415224&tid=106
regarding "More On The Open Sourcing Of Iraq"
with great interest. But was a little disappointed in not seeing anything regarding .IQ ccTLD and internet activity or connectivity
in Iraq as of today. Any info on that Adam?
Regards,
Jeffrey A. Williams
Spokesman for INEGroup LLA. - (Over 134k members/stakeholders strong!)
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Updated 1/26/04
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Iraq was never any sort of threat to us.
Iraq planned attacks against the US. And that came from Vladimir Putin. He and the Russian intelligence community told our government about these plans in the time leading up to our operations in Iraq.
WMDs have been found in small quantities - just not the stockpiles that had been claimed. Also the engines required for delivery of these weapons (engines which were banned themselves) have been found among scrap metal sent to other countries from Iraq during the time in which the inspections were going on.
I don't remember a connection directly to 9/11 being hyped by anyone in the administration. Sure, there was press speculation of Iraq financially backing it, but that's all. The administration said that there were ties to al Qaeda regarding training with chemical weapons. The types that have been found in small quantities, and the types that an al Qaeda member caught in Saudi Arabia a couple months ago admitted he'd been trained on in Iraq.
Addlepated - punk & metal
when did The good ole US of A get control of linux?
Europeans may control the Linux kernel, but much of the rest of a typical GNU/Linux distribution is Made In USA. A public database of trademarks registered in the USA gives the following:
Wow! My first troll mod
Can somebody explain to me why iI got it? I don't mind somebody not finding my joke funny, but how am I a troll??
I suggest this comment gets moderated offtopic. That I could understand and then I can sleep at night...
Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)