Whether you want to call capacity to function within an advanced society "intelligence", or by some other name, the fact is you are merely engaging in semantic hair-splitting.
It's not semantic hair-splitting at all. Many people now have the wrong idea of intelligence thanks to the pseudoscience that is IQ.
A reasonable person would suggest some communications traffic me monitored.
Hopefully these "reasonable" people of which you speak also want the government to have to get warrants. Otherwise, I can't agree that they're reasonable.
I get this every time I hear someone refer to anyone who served in the military as a "hero".
Yeah. Everyone in the military is a hero, even if they didn't actually defend us from any real threat. Participation in preemptive wars apparently makes people heroes, now.
Calling victims stupid can be valid, especially if the victims actually were stupid. The term "victim blaming" is useless; while it is true that I think the crooks shouldn't get away, some victims really are idiots and should be called out for being stupid. They're not always idiots, but sometimes they are.
No one cares about your precious distinctions; I don't, at least. What the NSA is doing is wrong. I don't want allies spied on, and I don't want innocent people spied on. Nationalistic pricks who only care about the domestic spying can go to hell.
They violated the constitution, which is the highest law of the land; that's a simple fact, no matter what judges rule. Furthermore, even if that were not true, their actions were evil and absolutely immoral.
2) He definitely broke the law.
You treat all laws as if they're the same; they aren't. Violating everyone's privacy by conducting surveillance on them is astronomically worse than someone revealing that such a thing is happening.
There is absolutely no justification for revealing what was going on outside the US when non-citizens are involved.
Sure there was. As a US citizen, I want to know what my cute little government thugs are doing. I don't approve of spying on allies or innocent people, so I'm happy Snowden gave us the specifics.
But you government bootlickers would keep everyone in the dark. Why worship the government? Hundreds of millions of people throughout history have died at the hands of various governments; they can't be trusted.
You can opine all you want about NSA collecting phone records, but it does not change the fact he is a traitor.
A traitor to what? As a US citizen, I feel he's a hero, and that the government is the traitor. He certainly didn't betray me; I know that much. The only people he betrayed were those engaging in immoral and unconstitutional activities, and I have no problem with betraying such people.
You people who say "It is the way it is; he's a traitor, and so he deserves to be in prison!" are cowards.
Yeah. Appealing to such things in order to 'validate' an opinion about a completely subjective matter (whether or not disliking all of them is an "adolescent approach") tends to be garbage. Try again.
Your experience seems like garbage, if it even exists and isn't just bias towards mentalities that you dislike. Disliking all of them is perfectly valid; they're politicians, after all. There are very few candidates that I actually 'like,' and I am cautious even of them.
OK, tell me how Obama is evil and also how you voted for the last 2 elections.
I voted for third parties.
Obama is evil because he continues the same unconstitutional activities that were happening under Bush and Bush's predecessors. Any politician that supports this sort of thing is automatically evil, and he has, in fact, come out in support of it.
The Dems are far from perfect, but overall I will take them over the Repugnantcans any day.
Again, you're still thinking in terms of 'the lesser of two evils.' That mentality is poisonous and leads to the status quo remaining the same in perpetuity. Suck it up and vote for someone who isn't evil; stop worrying about the bogeymen.
But you'd rather that we put our head in the sand and pretend that no one spies on anyone?
By the way, again, that's just another straw man. I do not ask you to pretend that other people don't spy. I ask that you not be an idiot and use "Everyone is doing it!" excuses to try to justify immoral activities. Really. Stop being illogical.
What utter bullshit. Your naive dismissal of how the entire world operates is useless and idiotic.
Your appeals to popularity are useless, naive, and idiotic; congratulations.
I'm not defending the NSA, but it is their job to spy on other countries.
You are defending the NSA. And it should only be their job to spy on enemy countries.
If the NSA was closed down do you really think all the other countries that spy on the US would stop?
Straw man. Most people are simply calling for them to stop spying on allies and innocent people, not to scrap the whole idea of an organization spying on enemies entirely.
Besides, the US is supposed to be exceptional. How is it exceptional to do something because everyone else is doing it? You're a mindless drone and you should feel bad.
What the NSA is doing to other countries is an unfortunate necessity to ensure the safety of the American people (just like is doing it to ensure the safety of their people).
You have no proof that spying on allies and innocent people is truly necessary for our safety, but even if that were true, safety is far less important than principles, morals, privacy, and freedom.
There are no viable 3rd parties in US presidential politics.
Even if that is true, that does not excuse you for voting for evil. Even if it's 'useless' (it's not) to vote for a third party, you should do it out of principle alone.
But it's not useless. If enough people start voting for third parties, that will send a message to the main parties that they need to make some changes to reclaim those lost votes. And the viability of third parties can be altered if people with your mentality would just disappear; it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, even if our system does tend towards two parties.
No one likes that murderers murder people, but it is a fact of life.
There, see how useless and idiotic that is? People can see that this sort of thing is happening, so you don't need to reiterate it. Something being common or accepted does not make it right. People are saying that this is wrong and shouldn't happen. I for one thank Snowden for releasing the information you seem to consider useless, so hopefully we can eventually stop the NSA from spying on allies and innocent people worldwide.
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What Snowden leaked shows much, much more than that.
All people have rights, whether they're in the US or not.
is worse than unhelpful to every American
Wrong. That is *not unhelpful*. I want to know what my so-called 'representatives' are allowing to happen.
Whether you want to call capacity to function within an advanced society "intelligence", or by some other name, the fact is you are merely engaging in semantic hair-splitting.
It's not semantic hair-splitting at all. Many people now have the wrong idea of intelligence thanks to the pseudoscience that is IQ.
A reasonable person would suggest some communications traffic me monitored.
Hopefully these "reasonable" people of which you speak also want the government to have to get warrants. Otherwise, I can't agree that they're reasonable.
I get this every time I hear someone refer to anyone who served in the military as a "hero".
Yeah. Everyone in the military is a hero, even if they didn't actually defend us from any real threat. Participation in preemptive wars apparently makes people heroes, now.
But unfortunately, the general public seems to have latched onto the idea that IQ = intelligence.
I'm not sure I understand your point.
Fair enough. I'm sure there are other prizes for people like Snowden, anyway.
Snowden was just the messenger. If countries get angry at one another, it is because of their actions, not because of Snowden.
Calling victims stupid can be valid, especially if the victims actually were stupid. The term "victim blaming" is useless; while it is true that I think the crooks shouldn't get away, some victims really are idiots and should be called out for being stupid. They're not always idiots, but sometimes they are.
Well, that's a strange reply, considering what I said. Are you unable to comprehend that people can make different moral judgements than you?
No one cares about your precious distinctions; I don't, at least. What the NSA is doing is wrong. I don't want allies spied on, and I don't want innocent people spied on. Nationalistic pricks who only care about the domestic spying can go to hell.
1) NSA MAY have broken the law.
They violated the constitution, which is the highest law of the land; that's a simple fact, no matter what judges rule. Furthermore, even if that were not true, their actions were evil and absolutely immoral.
2) He definitely broke the law.
You treat all laws as if they're the same; they aren't. Violating everyone's privacy by conducting surveillance on them is astronomically worse than someone revealing that such a thing is happening.
You can take your unjust laws and stuff 'em.
There is absolutely no justification for revealing what was going on outside the US when non-citizens are involved.
Sure there was. As a US citizen, I want to know what my cute little government thugs are doing. I don't approve of spying on allies or innocent people, so I'm happy Snowden gave us the specifics.
But you government bootlickers would keep everyone in the dark. Why worship the government? Hundreds of millions of people throughout history have died at the hands of various governments; they can't be trusted.
What sort of nonsense is this? Did you have a point?
Ask the courageous people who were involved with eliminating laws for racial segregation.
They shouldn't have been punished, and the laws should never have existed. There, done. You might be a masochist, but not everyone is.
Now, how does that help us?
As an American citizen, it helps me by letting me know what the government thugs are doing in our name. As usual, nothing I'd approve of.
You can opine all you want about NSA collecting phone records, but it does not change the fact he is a traitor.
A traitor to what? As a US citizen, I feel he's a hero, and that the government is the traitor. He certainly didn't betray me; I know that much. The only people he betrayed were those engaging in immoral and unconstitutional activities, and I have no problem with betraying such people.
You people who say "It is the way it is; he's a traitor, and so he deserves to be in prison!" are cowards.
Yeah. Appealing to such things in order to 'validate' an opinion about a completely subjective matter (whether or not disliking all of them is an "adolescent approach") tends to be garbage. Try again.
Your experience seems like garbage, if it even exists and isn't just bias towards mentalities that you dislike. Disliking all of them is perfectly valid; they're politicians, after all. There are very few candidates that I actually 'like,' and I am cautious even of them.
OK, tell me how Obama is evil and also how you voted for the last 2 elections.
I voted for third parties.
Obama is evil because he continues the same unconstitutional activities that were happening under Bush and Bush's predecessors. Any politician that supports this sort of thing is automatically evil, and he has, in fact, come out in support of it.
The Dems are far from perfect, but overall I will take them over the Repugnantcans any day.
Again, you're still thinking in terms of 'the lesser of two evils.' That mentality is poisonous and leads to the status quo remaining the same in perpetuity. Suck it up and vote for someone who isn't evil; stop worrying about the bogeymen.
But you'd rather that we put our head in the sand and pretend that no one spies on anyone?
By the way, again, that's just another straw man. I do not ask you to pretend that other people don't spy. I ask that you not be an idiot and use "Everyone is doing it!" excuses to try to justify immoral activities. Really. Stop being illogical.
What utter bullshit. Your naive dismissal of how the entire world operates is useless and idiotic.
Your appeals to popularity are useless, naive, and idiotic; congratulations.
I'm not defending the NSA, but it is their job to spy on other countries.
You are defending the NSA. And it should only be their job to spy on enemy countries.
If the NSA was closed down do you really think all the other countries that spy on the US would stop?
Straw man. Most people are simply calling for them to stop spying on allies and innocent people, not to scrap the whole idea of an organization spying on enemies entirely.
Besides, the US is supposed to be exceptional. How is it exceptional to do something because everyone else is doing it? You're a mindless drone and you should feel bad.
What the NSA is doing to other countries is an unfortunate necessity to ensure the safety of the American people (just like is doing it to ensure the safety of their people).
You have no proof that spying on allies and innocent people is truly necessary for our safety, but even if that were true, safety is far less important than principles, morals, privacy, and freedom.
There are no viable 3rd parties in US presidential politics.
Even if that is true, that does not excuse you for voting for evil. Even if it's 'useless' (it's not) to vote for a third party, you should do it out of principle alone.
But it's not useless. If enough people start voting for third parties, that will send a message to the main parties that they need to make some changes to reclaim those lost votes. And the viability of third parties can be altered if people with your mentality would just disappear; it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, even if our system does tend towards two parties.
There is no excuse to vote for evil. None.
That's never been true of anyone with access to classified information. You agree to give up lots of rights when you sign up to be a spy.
Your rights can't be taken so easily, no matter what the government says. That's just further evidence of them violating the constitution.
No one likes that murderers murder people, but it is a fact of life.
There, see how useless and idiotic that is? People can see that this sort of thing is happening, so you don't need to reiterate it. Something being common or accepted does not make it right. People are saying that this is wrong and shouldn't happen. I for one thank Snowden for releasing the information you seem to consider useless, so hopefully we can eventually stop the NSA from spying on allies and innocent people worldwide.