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Ask Slashdot: What Does Edward Snowden Deserve?
Nerval's Lobster writes "U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder made government whistleblower Edward Snowden a very peculiar offer last week: plead guilty, and the U.S. government would consider how to handle his criminal case. That seems an inverted way of doing things—in the United States, the discussions (if not the trial) usually come before the guilty plea—but Holder's statement hints yet again at the conundrum facing the government when it comes to Snowden, a former subcontractor for the National Security Agency (NSA) who leaked secrets about that group's intelligence operations to a number of newspapers, most notably The Guardian. It's unlikely that the U.S. government would ever consider giving full clemency to Snowden, but now it seems that various officials are willing to offer something other than locking him in a deep, dark cell and throwing away the key. If Snowden ever risked coming back to the United States (or if he was forced to return, thanks to the Russians kicking him out and no other country willing to give him asylum), and you were Holder and Obama, what sort of deal would you try to strike with everybody's favorite secrets-leaker?"
but a pardon for his crimes, a pack of beers and a a badge that says "I stated the obvious"
If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
The Presidential Medal of Freedom.
Shoot, he deserves it 100x more than the FEMA directory to whom W. awarded it in response to Hurricane Katrina.
Would agree to terms before they even tell you what the terms are?
And lets be fair, it isn't like the Obama Admin could be trusted to live up to the terms of the agreement anyway.
A Presidential Pardon, issued at 11:58 am on January 20, 2017.
Seriously, Snowden's a hell of a guy and did a real good thing - they even recognize this by their claims for the need to limit the actions of the NSA. But the administration cannot condone his actions. Hence, a last minute presidential pardon is the only politically viable option.
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
...they have decided to award him the Nobel Peace Prize, posthumously.
How can dumb people like that have such well-paid jobs? The government and the NSA need to plead guilty, THEN Snowden can come home.
A Noble prize, complete and absolute immunity to all prosecution, criminal and/or civil and a tickertape parade on arrival back to the USA
Some nut-job will.
Medal of Honor
The alternative could be assassination, and I don't mean by the USA. There are many groups active in Russia who would kill Snowden simply to make the USA look bad (if he dies, regardless of the circumstances, most people will assume he was killed by the US). Returning to the US would alleviate living under that kind of fear (assuming he recognizes it).
Better known as 318230.
and a parade.
Just let him go home.
At least not during this administration. Probably not during the next either, way too many entrenched political interests want to see him dead.
I can just see the return now.
Obama: Half of my cabinet wants to give you the Medal of Freedom, the other half wants you shot on the spot as a traitor. Maybe we should compromise and do both.
I read the internet for the articles.
Eric Holder has bungled every bit of his responsibilities as the head of the DOJ, both legally and morally. It's no surprise that he wants to invert the legal process to pointlessly attempt to save face on behalf of the government.
After all, Snowden handed over the materials that he possessed. Love him or hate him, stopping "him" will do nothing to prevent the continued leaks and damages to US interests.
To be clear, Snowden does not deserve to be given a slap on the wrist. He has leaked some pretty damaging classified material that is not questionable in any way. The earliest leaks were most damning to the government, but the majority of leaks have been pretty damning to Snowden (not in terms of scale, but in terms of quantity).
a plea deal is not different than jailing him indefinitely. Basically it's stating please treat me the same way as Bradly Manning, keep on doing all the evil/illegal things you are currently doing and please do not jail any of the real traitors.
Whistle blowers are not committing crimes. They are just the messengers.
Full Pardon. Presidential Medal of Freedom. Full stop.
(a) It's time to highlight the oft-neglected Presidential power of pardon and what it's meant to be used for. (b) The Obama White House contact webpage still claims that "President Obama is committed to creating the most open and accessible administration in American history." It's time put up or shut up on that BS.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
Maybe Obama can give him his, since he's not using it.
A Nobel Prize.
Other countries have offered to give him asylum, but the US has bullied them into denying it to him. A country willing to intimidate other countries that way that isn't going to do much in the way of not treating the guy as the worst of all criminals.
This guy cost the government untold fortunes -- not only in dollars but in goodwill. He poisoned relationships with the international community, undermined the confidence of the citizenry in our institutions and ignored the democratic process. He should be in jail, no question.
Oh, whoops! I thought you were asking about Dick Cheney!
He deserves a full pardon, nobel prize, ignobal prize, several million dollars, some firm handshakes and "atta boys" and the job as CEO at Microsoft.
that's what.
I wonder if Mr. Snowden, with an appropriate team of advisors, would have the skill required to lead the United States onto a moral path? I'm unaware of his management/administration qualifications, but he certainly has the high ground. The bug would certainly be in the "appropriate team of advisors" departments, and I'm afraid he'd end up like JFK.
--CF
The man sold out his government, and I'm guessing whether he comes back or not, we have ways to deal with traitors. Subtle or not so much.
The other whistleblowers. Manning, Assange, Jeremy Hammond..etc etc.
Whether or not you like their methods these people are effectively doing the same thing. Uncovering and making known actions of the US (and other gov'ts) that are in direct conflict with humanity and the exisiting legal framework.
Present USA is continuation of STASI Germany and Stalin's Russia. Avoid at all cost.
It hard not to notice government security forces all over cities, cameras, security in schools, kindergartens and grocery stores.
All dictators look with envy at the amount of spying on citizens, censorship and "living in cage" style of life in the USA.
Guilty until proven innocent.
Meanwhile, the world has put the US on trial for failing to live up to the US constitution, which--thanks to its strong merits--has become the world's de facto constitution.
Strange reversal.
Snowden uncovered crimes being committed on a daily basis against the citizens of the United States, and knowing that his own chain of command was just as guilty and would silence him (probably permanently) he took it upon himself to make these crimes known to the world, and did so at the ultimate personal risk: His life. Don't sit there and tell me that at some point, they considered sending someone after him to kill him. Regardless he's now an exile. If you ask me, he deserves a medal for what he did, but I'd be just as happy if they left the man alone.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
It's always the same: "What does Edward Snowden deserve?". How about "what should we do about NSA's over reach?". Lost in this discussion seems to be any kind of seriousness about reigning in NSA. At least in the 70s when the CIA was caught engineering coups they had to have congressional oversight placed upon them.
One of these days... One of these days you're going to forget to click the check-box next to "Post Anonymously" and you will reveal your username.
A fair and fully open trial, something he would not be afforded here in the US.
So with that in mind, a pardon some years down the line would do nicely, any deal offered by the US at this point though can not, and should not be trusted.
he is dead man walking. Ed, stay away from The Axis of Evil! USA-GB-Izrael-AUT-NZ.
He deserves his right to speak freely without fear of government retribution.
He deserves his right to a fair and speedy trial, by a jury of his peers.
He deserves his right to face his accusers, the accusations they make, and the evidence being presented against him.
He deserves his right (and duty) to out traitors to the American People, so they may be tried for their crimes as well.
Unfortunately, the government authorized by the Constitution doesn't seem to agree with anything the aforementioned document says, so neither Snowden, nor the traitors, nor any of the rest of us will be getting what he/they/we deserve.
So it goes, as Vonnegut would say.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
with a fairytail history of free land freeloader acquisition by force it's a good thing violent 'punishment' has gone obsolete. each our own reward as we continue to point our crooked little fingers any one of us deserves better http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=scott%20olsen&sm=3 certainly some of us? more 'judges' than crooks (even crooked judges) for sure now
or sneak in to some other Asian nation that does not sympathize with the BigBrother Orwellian police state the US Govt morphed in to, Hey Snowden if you can read this please stay away from the USA for your own safety because those lieing thieving murdering scum that call themselves a government will more than likely kill you or put you in a prison for life if you come back here
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
He did the right things, but in the wrong way. No matter his intentions or the results, both of which are good, it doesn't change the fact that he broke the law. My opinion on this would be to acknowledge that he broke several laws, including espionage and other serious offenses, but keep his punishment light (as in non-existent) an call it "time served" for whatever incarceration/detention is needed to get his case in front of a judge that agrees to rule like this. We need to be careful not to praise the acts only because the results were good. Certainly the current whistle-blower laws need heavy reform; they can take that into consideration when handing down sentencing.
And a posthumous medal.
Yes, he revealed some shady intelligence gathering programs the US was running against its own people, but he also went out of his way to dump information on programs we were running against foreign entities. Had he stuck to the former, I'd consider him a hero and would support a full pardon.
But, when you run off to our biggest political rivals and tell the world the details of how we spy, you're violating the whistleblower's code of ethics to minimize injury. And, for what purpose did it serve? It did nothing to help the American people.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
so we really do not forget again.. results never vary so far http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mk9mV8qBiEk these are some of us 'winners'
trial.
We're already on the watchlist. So are you.
The only traitors here are those in the government, not messengers who inform the public of the government's misdeeds or unconstitutional activities.
Make him the President, then he can see how much it costs to put up with people of his ilk. On the flip side, we'll find out the truth about the Kennedy assassination, Roswell, and Area 51.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
I am seriously surprised every time I find out a real person, not some federal talking head, thinks Snowden is a traitor. Seriously? How dumb do you have to be? I guess that's my own opinion, but wow, you gotta be seriously ignorant of how the constitution works and like what it means to blow a whistle to believe the feds when they say this guy is a traitor. It just boggles my mind that anyone would frame the question like this question was framed. When I read that kind of crap on other sites, it's a sure sign that the writer is a seriously conservative idiot who doesn't know how to step outside the patriotism above all mindset, or abandon the government-never-lies delusion.
I sure hope anyone who still loves Obama is paying attention to the cognitive dissonance of all the feds saying Snowden is a traitor, while it's pretty obvious Snowden wasn't a traitor. Kinda looks like the business, B.S. as usual government-model I know and love.
All opinion, of course, but I'm definitely not wrong. :)
This is the final option offered up by the government before they send the Seals to go get him.
And an O.B.E for services to humanity
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
He deserves a parade ... on his way to prison...
I bet you have Jesus in your heart.
Death.
Fuckings to those of you who think that he's done a bad thing. Either everyone follows the law, including the government, or it's invalid. The governments haven't been following the law.
...Steve
Ok. Then what about prosecuting people who committed crimes of violating the constitution. All our other laws are derived from the authority of the constitution. If you do something unconstitutional, then it should not be crime to have someone else blow the whistle on you.
The excuse "but I was just following orders" has already been tried.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Give him the whistle-blower protections he should have and go after the actual criminals. Calling him a traitor and having the Espionage Act hanging over his head only serves those who need to be investigated, giving them the opportunity to further treat the Constitution like so much tissue paper.
So he should negotiate on those terms.
He has a portfolio of assets of significant value (as-yet-unrevealed secrets) that can be traded for options/assets that the guv'ment possesses (jail-time, amnesty, for example). Not revealing ABC is worth taking XYZ off the table. Two columns/sides - come to an agreement and be sure to make it very public. Use a third-party to draw up papers (Switzerland?).
Or, go the clandestine route: Snowden agrees to drop from public view for so many years and not reveal anything further and the US agrees (in writing) to leave him alone wherever he goes (except maybe the US).
For his crimes he should be sentenced to community service (whether he's found guilty or not). He should be required to serve on a some sort of panel monitoring or reforming the NSA and other agencies, or perhaps as a privacy advocate for the FISA court. He's one of the few people that has demonstrated credibility to serve in that role, and the country needs him.
Or two. And a job chairing a new oversight committee for the intelligence services.
no taxation without representation!
And if so, the president down to every food soldier at NSA should be tried for breaching the constitution. Oh, and not by some bribed DC judge, but by jury of the people. I assume that's about 20000 people. Prepare a big courtroom and make room in the prison.
of money yup you guessed it
He isn't going to come back ever. Other countries have offered asylum.
If and this is a HUGE IF he came back, the odds of him seeing freedom ever again are less than you having a life.
If I were president i would pardon him and fix the problem.
Rand Paul had some interesting comments this weekend. He said that this would not have come to light had Snowden not broken the law, but at the same time the law has to apply to everybody and you can't have it both ways: It's ridiculous that people want to throw the book at Snowden (even calling for his death) but we completely ignore that Clapper straight out lied to congress, which carries a 5 year jail penalty.
I am Jack's writable stack pointer.
Whistleblowers go to the press who then informs the public. They do not go to China or Putin's Russia where these countries respective security services can pressure a person to reveal things they might not want to.
Just RTFA. All the way back to the original NY times article, it isn't specified what Snowden would plead guilty to. Presumably not treason - which he isn't guilty of in any event. He has done the US and even the world a great service.
Sure, there are "political realities" (which should be an oxymoron) dictating that Snowden receives some kind of punishment.
And I would consider letting him run it.
Alternately, and perhaps even better, I would "sentence" him to get together with some very smart people to put together a system which restricts the possibility of these sorts of abuses and the secret rules that make them possible. Then I might put him in charge of a board that oversees the NSA and other agencies, and their uses of their power.
The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is what punches workers in the nuts.
pleading guilty might make a case for extradition stronger and the case for extended clemency weaker? a convicted felon versus a suspected felon might have different standing in regards to who would accept him.... IANAL but it sounds like the game of checkers has just been moved to chess.
Unix, an obscure operating system developed by bored researchers in an attempt to get a better game playing experience.
. . . and a motherf---ing medal of honor.
.).
To be honest, I would not be surprised if he were actually sent by some other part of the federal government to sabotage a rogue NSA. However, you will never see anyone officially admit it until the NSA is neutered. To do so would be political suicide (or more . .
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
Whatever the deal he may be offered, he better stay where he is (Russia and China, at least, would love to have him be accessible, as long as he wishes to stay there). Once he is in custody here in USA, anything can happen e.g. he could be found hanging in his cell and declared a victim of suicide. Who is going to investigate?
He deserves, at least, one milion dollars.
And a self-righteous prick. Did a good job stabbing our military and CIA operatives in the back. Idea: Because of over-reaching police and government, let's get rid of the NSA, the police, the CIA and our military and let's stop spying on sleeper cells. Maybe the orthodox Muslims like us now? The only thing Jihadist killers hate about Americans and Israelis is that we are breathing in and out.
To serve only self is the ultimate slavery.
This is a case where it is pretty clear someone broke the law, and also pretty clear that it was in our country's interests for him (and everyone else in his position) to break the law, because the law was intended to work against the US. It's like having a law "dark-skinned people have to sit at the back of the bus." Rosa really did break that law, but it was a bullshit law that we want to get defied and repealed, the instant anyone finds out about it.
So prosecute and acquit him. And then follow up by only electing people to Congress, who promise to pass a new law, which 1) decriminalizes what Snowden did 2) punishes people in Snowden's position who don't leak.
...himself rubbing Clapper's face in the constitution.
from the President that has the courage to admit to fault, and grant him a pardon for bringing such an egregious overstep of personal freedom to light...
Both guilty of Treason, failure to protect the constitution and deserve 10 lifetimes in jail. I have no doubt his actions will cost millions of human lives over the next 50 years.
A strange world is one where we're prosecuting people for crimes they've not yet committed...
Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
Awards, kudos and all that.
But this morning I had this weird thought. This Snowden thing. Makes me wonder if it was designed to bring things to a head much more quickly than it would have otherwise. It seems to me various parties and interests out there seem to have a much larger goal in mind than keeping things as they are. Everything the US is involved in seems to be destabilizing. Pointing out exactly what the US has been up to has added to the destabilization of the civilian population. (The world's top leaders all knew about this and even used the data themselves.)
It just makes me wonder if the Snowden thing is just another way of adding straws to the situation getting us closer to the tipping point where the parties who have been preparing for this for decades step in like heros and tame the world of civil unrest.
Just a thought...
"If... you were Holder and Obama, what sort of deal would you try to strike with everybody's favorite secrets-leaker?"
I'd offer him pardon on almost everything, leaving only a trivial (1-2 months) jail sentence left over. Then I'd have him murdered while he was in prison.
The intelligence community is happy because I've sent a clear message of what happens to whistleblowers, and I can continue to play innocent and act pro-whistleblower as I have for ages, letting accusations of it being an assassination fade into conspiracy theory while most of my voting base continues to ignore the problem or is glad I got rid of another "terrorist lover". Seriously, what are the pro-privacy advocates going to do? Vote against me on this issue by voting for a Republican who wants to peek into their bedrooms to make sure there's no sinning going on? Ha!
What? It's not what I personally want to see done, but then I'm not hypocritical, power-hungry, interest-beholden, and immoral enough to ever want to be President. If I were President, obviously that would not be the case.
Mitt? Is that you?
If we're to have an open and democratic system, the American people must be told when their laws are being violated by their supposed servants. In an open system, you cannot tell the people without telling the world.
Nothing?
That's not nothing.
Snowden's guilt (if you can call that) was to point out how NSA is guilty of violating the Constitution of the United States of America.
And because NSA is part and parcel of the government of the United States of America, whatever crime that NSA has committed, the government of the United States must be the one liable.
In other words, Snowden is a witness to a crime, and he opted to share the evidence of that crime to the world than to keep it a secret.
If I were to use an analogy - Snowden witnessed and took video of a robbery carried out by a group of cops, and instead of turning the video evidence to the police (whom Snowden already know are baddies), he released that video online, and it went viral.
Now the police are accusing Snowden guilty of releasing that "supposedly secret" video, but conveniently forgot to mention that very crime whereby a group of cops carried that robbery.
That is why, before Snowden plead guilty of releasing that "secret video" (which imho Snowden is NOT guilty of anything, but that's beside the point), the cops have to answer for that robbery in the first place.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Both. There seems to be some sort of controversy as to whether or not he is a whistleblower or a traitor. This is not a choice, he is both. He exposed a systemic problem that violates a number of priciples that our country was founded on (whistleblower). He also violated a cardinal sin (nah, a law at that!) when he, as an intelligence professional decided to disclose national secrets. If he was anyone else, he would have been fine. Since he signed that NDA, agreed to be held responsible with the Nation's trust, and agreed never to disclose national secrets, he exposed himself to the consequences of doing so. So, thank you Mr. Snowden, now come spend some time in jail.
I am a little fuzzy here, are you calling Snowden a traitor, for pointing out the vast, incredibly illegal spying program that has massively damaged US diplomatic and economic interests, or the NSA? Please clarify who needs to be shot....
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Let's see:
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
... prosecuted ??
Just when the laws of the United States of America has officially turned into "prosecuting the little guys but leaving the big fish untouched" ?
The law is the law, and it applies to everybody, even to the president of the United States of America.
If the president is guilty, he should face the music, same as anybody else.
It's time we start a total clean-up of those who rule over us --- they are taking our country to the dogs.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
If Nixon was pardoned for the better of the USA then so should Snowden.
Jack of all trades,master of none
Capricious application of the law is a prime signifier of a corrupt system.
How about this: Snowden is allowed to return to the U.S. and no charges are filed. Agencies are ordered that there will be no assassination attempts. No prosecution. No bullets in the back of the head. No "accidents".
His fame and notoriety allow him to write and sell a few books, he does the TV circuit. He goes on The Daily Show. He goes on Fox News.
We have a public discussion about the role of the NSA and the limits, not decrees invented by the President. Congress gets pressure from the public to clean up how we're being spied on. The NSA gets an overhaul and we find a sane balance between liberty and scrutiny. The country is better off.
Too rational to actually happen?
Snowden has proved over and over that he is going to take the moral high ground no matter what. Give him the US Presidency and allow the corruption to be completely exposed and made vulnerable. This country is being run by criminals - and 'business as usual' is looking more and more like fascism every day.
Pardon Snowden.. give him a medal.. and then get behind him and ask him to run for President.
--- We need more Ron Paul!
A long thin hollow glass tube shoved up his urethra while he's aroused. Afterwards, connect his balls to a car battery while shoving a spiked dildo up his a$$, playing "Born in the USA" by Bruce Springsteen. Anything less would be uncivilized.
That's the best Slashdot comment I had in weeks. Forget that. In years. Really.
Thanks for it. May I use this in my .sig?
and subpoena powers to go along with his chairmanship of the High Crimes and Treason Truth Committee investigating the real effing criminals.
"Just plead guilty, and all is forgiven."
I'll bet they'll even throw in an all-expenses-paid vacation in the Caribbean. Generous of them.
Because he revealed what FVCKING CRIMINALS we have running our government.
Really, this guy needs a bullet to the head. You guys are a bunch of screw-ups. Do you really think the NSA gives a shit about any of you? They care about making sure we don't get hit with fucking planes again and this dirtbag hurt that. There are bad guys in this world, and sometimes, you have to play dirty to take them out.
I believe fully believe that Snowden should be classified as a whistle-blower with respect to domestic spying. Those revelations were absolutely vital to the continued integrity of our democratic mechanism. However, I do believe he released some documents regarding foreign spying that he should not have. Given the size of the cache of leaked documents, it was, perhaps, inevitable that there would be some documents not directly applicable to the domestic spying issue. I suspect, though, that he knowingly released some of those foreign spying documents to apply pressure to the US government. This crossed the line, but it is understandable. He needs to not be held as completely blameless. As a result, I believe Snowden deserves:
1) Immediate repatriation to the US
2) Complete amnesty for all release of documents to journalistic sources, particularly with respect to domestic spying
3) A due process trial, preferably managed by a third-party watchdog, to confirm/disprove allegations of foreign funding behind Snowden.
4) Assuming an innocent ruling from 3, a minimal slap-on-the-wrist punishment for the release of classified documents not related to domestic spying. Maybe a couple years of house arrest?
First part - some things he revealed are arguably on shaky legal ground. It's not a given that collecting meta-data inside the US is illegal though, and it was certainly not Snowden's place to be the judge. He could have revealed that the program existed without going into too much detail and let those qualified to judge be the judges.
Second part - everything else. There is absolutely no justification for revealing what was going on outside the US when non-citizens are involved. None. Period. Perhaps his motives will come out later. Maybe he's an Occupy Wall Street or Green Party groupie who wants to bring down the US government and/or capitalism. Maybe he's a spy on the payroll of China and/or Russia. We don't know. Yet.
Congressional Medal of Honor
Ordre national de la Légion d'honneur, Grand-Croix
The Knight Commander of the British Empire is a slave collar. I'd avoid the Brit gongs.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
There's a better solution than prosecutorial discretion. Try him, convict him, and the President can pardon him if Snowden deserves it. That's why the power of the pardon exists - to correct instances where the law cannot properly dispense justice, but the law itself is sound.
A medal, parade and a full pardon. Plus his country's thanks for being a shining example of a true patriot.
You shouldn't be able to encourage someone to plead guilty in exchange for a lesser sentence or better situation.
The NSA and their activities in national and international espionage are:
1) Legal
2) Protected by USA Federal Laws
3) anyone on Earth can do the same (if that anyone has the means, methods and techniques which are all legal and protected activities).
It "appears" that Mr. Snowden violated NSA rules for being allowed clearance and access to documents the NSA designated as Confidential, NOFORN , TOP SECRET and TOP SECRET RUFF. If there were provable violations, those violations are a matter of Civil Law, i.e. the internal employment conduct of the NSA as a Federal Agency.
What complicates NSA is that the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) and the Director of the National Security Agency(DNSA) have committed perjury in the committees of the U.S.A. Congress regarding the NSA's operations, programs, means-methods-techniques and intentions.
Furthermore, the "Secret" activities of the NSA have been affirmed by the DNI and DNSA.
Furthermore, the methods and techniques of the NSA's said programs have been replicated by students and Faculty of Stanford University.
Furthermore, President Obama in recent remarks claims to be open to consideration of "clemency" in some form, but that Mr. Snowden is guilty of theft of Government Property.
The theft of a Webster's Dictionary from the Office of President my be theft, but it is not actionable in U.S. Federal Court, because a Webster's Dictionary exist outside of the domain of the U.S. Federal Government and such an event is petty, i.e. of so little value that it begs the court to ignore it and consider other more important business.
So the NSA classification of a Webster's Dictionary up to TOP SECRET RUFF may have no relevance what so ever in a U.S. Federal Court administering Civil law, given the evidence.
Given the preponderance of evidence, Mr. Snowden should not act on the perjury statements of Mr. Holden and Mr. Obama.
QED
I thought Obama promised to encourage whistle-blowers during his campaign...
While what he did was breaking the law by revealing information he was sworn to protect...I figure give him a slap on the wrist. Call him guilty on all charges...and then give him 500 hours of community service and let him on his way. The NSA on the other hand...needs to be reigned in and the government needs to have better checks and balances. Where is our recourse when all 3 branches agree and engage in unconstitutional behavior?
starting with a full pardon, medals, Nobel peace prize et al
he should be appointed to oversee the NSA & the like, so that they stop overreaching as they do now
at least we know Snowden is a person how won't step aside on these issues
That is what Snowden deserves. The man has shown great courage, absolute impartiality, resourcefulness and an admirable refusal to be intimidated by those he knew would become his enemies. These are excellent qualities for a US president. Moreover, Snowden communicates well, in a low-key tone. Better than drama queen Bush Jr., and better than disappointment-of-the-century Obama.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
The only way a person can be in violation of the US Constitution is by claiming ownership of another person, i.e. slavery.
Laws are required to stay within the limits stated by the US Constitution, but they are not derived from it.
Amnesty, a fucking medal, and a highly paid position in the President's administration as a technology, security, and privacy advisor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J...
Apparently he thinks he's the attorney general for the Cardassian Empire - verdict first, trial afterwards.
what sort of deal would you try to strike with everybody's favorite secrets-leaker?
He should be part of a newly formed commission on the protection of privacy along with proven ACLU members. The commission should have rights to amend, extend and modify laws connected to handling of information and constitutional rights Something like a constitutional court.
Along with a medal, parade and a pardon.
Your ultimate appeal to non-discretion is just another form of deterrence porn modestly clad in a knee-length skirt.
When the rules themselves are a clear and present danger, it's time for collective social judgement to enter the system. Any society that makes rule of law its highest virtue puts itself under a stiff obligation not to enact stupid laws. Rule of law is only as good as the law itself. If the law itself is extraordinarily well conceived, there should hardly ever be a valid exception to the rule of law.
No provision of law beatifies a corrupt taskmaster.
Did anyone consider that perhaps the bureaucracy of DC is so difficult to deal with even if your the President that the campaign promise of transparency could not be fulfilled directly, but by allowing your administration to be one of the most leaked in memory? I wonder if Obama will pardon the whistleblowers during the last few days or weeks of his presidency.
Just a thought...
I mean if you are familiar with 'Wu Tui', then this could well pass through your mind, though this could be an altered state of Wu Tui. The President campaigns for transparency and his administration leaks like a sieve because the promise goes unfulfilled. This might've been his most effective way to achieve his goal while working within the boundaries of the bureaucracy.
The statement below is FALSE
The statement above is TRUE
I'm not sure when it changed, but it became obvious once Obama was in office and decided to let the previous administration's habit of torturing people to death get swept under the rug.
... prosecuted ??
Too rich actually.
Just when the laws of the United States of America has officially turned into "prosecuting the little guys but leaving the big fish untouched" ?
I realize that was supposed to be a question, but yes, it has turned into that, started to go that way around the time Reagan was elected, and has gotten steadily worse since. Truman had a sign on his desk that said "The buck stops here" - modern presidents can't even see the place where the buck stops from their offices.
The law is the law, and it applies to everybody, even to the president of the United States of America.
Again, the law hasn't applied to the president (or even most of the rest of the US government) for several decades. If it had, there would be a lot of politicians (and their golf buddies) in prison right now.
If the president is guilty, he should face the music, same as anybody else.
"Should" and "will" are totally unrelated things.
ok, if the US government had _any_ credibility that they weren't just going to off this guy the second they could...and there was ANY credibility in the courts..
heres what SHOULD happen
He should get charged with whatever crimes he is alleged to have committed.
In the course of his trial, he should name all of the official channels he tried to use to "whistleblow" the "right" way. His superior? His superioer-superior?
Each person he names should charges brought against them, and subsequently be put on trial.
Snowden should have a full trial, and the people he implicates in that trial should all be followed up on for prosecution.
The methods he used to do what he did should be revealed in court and handed back to appropriate govt agencies, who should improve their internal security.
The people and practices that prevented him from whistleblowing in the "right" way should be removed from service.
Ultimately, snowden will probably be convicted of something or other via this trial. And then immediately after the conviction, he should be pardoned by the president, owing to the fact that the greater good he did for the American people by exposing the systematic law breaking by its own government greatly exceeds any legal wrong he might have done.
He should have his voting/firearm rights restored in the event that the charges against him were felony charges; the net result is that not felony should appear on his record.
None of this will happen because our government is shit.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
A fair trial.
The excuse "but I was just following orders" has already been tried.
In this case, I would be ok with prosecuting the ones who initially gave the orders.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Here's the context of the Pelosi speech: She was speaking to the National Association of Counties, not to the Congress.
Here's the rest of the Fox-redacted quote, I've helped you out with the incredibly complex usage of the pronouns you and we by including their meaning in brackets:
========= Slashdot beta sucks! ==========
That was not a pass/fail vote on the bill.
The GOP had forced a vote on whether the bill was to be introduced, then demanded before the vote to be allowed to introduce the bill. Pure politics bullshit. if they wanted to see the bill, they should have allowed it to be introduced without impeding it.
What you are crowing about is the GOP saying "No, you cannot give us a copy of the bill until you give us a copy of the bill!! We refuse to look at the bill until after we have seen the bill!"
I am not sure which is worse, that they did it or that you bought it.
Bush pardoned himself before any charges could be brought up against him. Why stops Obama from pardoning Snowden?
We all know that Snowden [i]should[/i] be protected by the whisleblower protection act, but the government is weaseling its way around the law, as per usual. Funny, since he was working for the government, he is liable for espionage charges, but suddenly when it comes to whistleblower protection, he's "only a contractor, not an actual employee, so it doesn't apply to him." Talk about having your cake and eating it, too.
like the "totally not undeercover NSA" gang. I also hear that the "Yo, not an NSA Mole" gang is up and coming.
Why not? Obama is the appropriate Nobel Peace Prize winner to bestow it for maximum satire.
The entity Snowden is blowing the whistle on is the same entity responsible for deciding if he should be prosecuted (or persecuted). This is an egregious conflict of interest that doesn't happen when someone blows the while on a corporation.
There's a strong case that he broke the law and committed treason.
Charge him, try him.
Then, if he's found guilty, commute his sentence to whatever time was served during the trial. No pardon. He's still a felon. The give him a beer and throw him a party.
Maybe some administration in the future can pardon him, when he's on death's door.
Face it. He did some wrong For the right reasons, perhaps, but he still did something wrong. That should not affect the guilt or innocence finding, but rather the severity of the sentence.
I'm not crazy,I'm actively irresponsible.
This is after all a country founded on the rule of law. We don't torture, we don't render indiscriminately captured people to black sites to avoid pesky laws, we don't do extra-judicial killings, we don't traffic illegal guns to support illegal arms trades that lead to death squads killing innocent civilians. This is, after all, Amerika!
Oh, look, they're cleaning out Manning's not-torture cell. Room for you now...
At least life in prison if not the death penalty for committing treason.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
To Canada, and then give him the job of head of CSIS (Canadian Security Intelligence Service) or probably more appropriately the CSCE (Communications Security Establishment Canada).
We would like him up here.
Unfortunately with our current government, Harper would probably work him over personally just to please his American masters.
he's a hero, he'll be remembered as such. not a pathetic little bitch like you.
Unable to verify SHILL_ACCOUNT_1287 due to failure to log in.
Good riddance.
Killing Snowden might anger Putin. That never ends well.
The United States ceased to be a country of laws years ago. We are now a country of policy. It doesn't make any difference what the actual laws say; the administration is going to go by what they consider their "policy" is. The President is picking and choosing which law gets enforced.
You love it when your guy is in power, but hate it when the other party's guy is in power. Nobody is ever held accountable to a common standard. And thus we continue to slide into totalitarianism. This is how it can start, folks.
As for Snowden, I say he should get a pardon. Of course he shouldn't hold his breath until that happens.
That's very hard to prove. Person A says they were following orders from person B, while person B claims that A went rogue and had no orders. Meanwhile all the documents that might prove it one way or another are classified.
Pardoning Snowden for all past crimes and enabling his return would prevent the release of any further damaging documents. If Snowden remains within US jurisdiction, any new leaks of his material can lead prosecutors directly to him.
Once the bleeding has stopped, the NSA and the Justice Department should together explain to the voting population the legal concept of "the fruit of the poison tree" - any intelligence gained by espionage should be inadmissible in court outside of direct, existential threats.
All governments engage in espionage to some extent, and our goal should not be to remove our "poison garden" and blind ourselves, but to ensure that state secrets are not used as a weapon against the populace.
Holder and the President must reveal the entire plan to the US public, nothing done behind closed doors or in secrecy, that way the government can't break it off in his A** after he surrenders. Snowden has no reason to trust any one in Washington, just as the common citizen no longer can or does trust Washington, so I believe the entire agreement has to be made public first and then he surrenders if he agrees to their offer. There still needs to be some sort of punishment though. There needs to be a policy put in place for whistle blowers of this nature (National Security - there is a need for it) to be able to come forward and disclose the illegalities our government performs without the need of fearing for your life or having to go on the run to the Russians.
Unfortunately, the people who we believe have broken the law belong to the same team that is in charge of prosecuting people who have broken the law.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
A full pardon. If Edward Snowden gets anything less than the criminal Nixon, this country will burn in Hell.
and you were Holder and Obama, what sort of deal would you try to strike with everybody's favorite secrets-leaker?"
Well I'm not an elitist tyrant like those guys, so there's no way I would do anything similar, were I in the same position.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
that would be Interesting.
You don't get to intentionally divulge classified information and walk away. Even if it's patriotism instead of treason. The plea deal should be 3 to 5 years, minimum security prison.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
He's done nothing wrong. He should be given a blanket amnesty to protect him from prosecution.
He should also be given a medal.
Seriously.
the totalitarian nigger states of America
...in Nuremberg, and lost.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...
Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
A bullet to the head. Traitor
Thanks to him the full reach of illegal operations is now know.
It's a huge dept on our side - knowing is the first step before making things better again.
A pardon or prison? What to give?
Edward Snowden's situation is most difficult to analyze. If all he did was reveal the NSA's surveillance on American citizens then I would say he deserves a full pardon and the awarding of the Medal of Freedom from the president. He did us as much of a service as Daniel Ellsberg did when he spilled the beans by giving the New York Times the Pentagon Papers, demonstrating the Lyndon Johnson's administration systematically lied, not only to the public but also to Congress about the government's involvement in Vietnam.
But he did more than that; he also revealed the legal and legitimate (if somewhat dodgy in some cases) spying on those in other countries, including Angela Merkel's cell phone conversations and the penetration by the NSA of the Chinese communications infrastructure. For that he deserves a long prison sentence.
It's really quite a simple choice: Life, Death, or Los Angeles.
and the job as CEO at Microsoft
You evil evil bastard. Have you no compassion in your soul?
http://dailycaller.com/2013/08... This is from a "former head of the U.S. Justice Department Asset Forfeitures Office and a federal prosecutor."
- A full pardon
- Two ounces of the finest Colorado weed
- A handjob from Katie Perry
- A Sunday Morning talk show on Al Jazeera
- A controlling owership stake in the National Review
That's what he should get.
I will answer the question with quotes from 2 founding fathers:
"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government." Patrick Henry
"Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
Does any more need to be said?
I am sure he signed plenty of NDA's
If he didn't like what he was doing he should have quit.
I don't beleive he deserves jail time but he is no hero either,
But whoever went in front of congress and lied about data collection, that guy needs some repercussions for that!
...deserve's got nothin' to do with it.
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In case nobody bothered to read about everything Edward Snowden did, he didn't just simply reveal the NSA was conducting potentially unconstitutional surveillance of Americans. He revealed information about programs that also perform surveillance of other countries. People are too blinded about the one issue to realize that, taken as a whole, he is not a whistle-blower. Pardon? Hah! He won't be kicked out by the Russians until they have taken advantage of everything he has told them, and the Chinese didn't even bother to keep him around after they had their talks with him. If you truly believe that what you have done is nothing more than be a whistle-blower, then there was no need to flee the country.
Point really is this. We, the public, may never know the full extent of what data Edward Snowden stole from NSA systems. I seriously doubt he even gave half of it to the media contact he used to reveal the NSA program directed at Americans. His actions speak volumes, and if you don't want to read the whole series then you can be nothing more than ignorant.
Snowden should be jailed for breaking the law. But not until all those in the government who broke the law and/or the constitution are jailed as traitors to their country first!!!
What does he deserve? He exposed the stupidity of having a secret intelligence gathering organization in a society that supposedly values free and open exchange of information and presumes all human beings have inalienable rights and limits upon the government. Which the government has broken. He couldn't do that without releasing embarassing facts in an illegal manner.
He deserves pleading guilty and a complete suspended sentence (asking for a pardon is a little much but not completely undeserved,) and the Nobel Peace Prize. And possibly expungement of his conviction upon serving the suspended sentence - not that anybody who matters will ever forget his name, but may for his rights.
The more interesting question is what the government deserves. Something with a hell of a lot more teeth than the Church Committee, for starters. And a new constitutuional amendment, criminalizing those governement officials and workers who violate the contsitution as currently amended, making such crimes of turpitude equivalent to treason or espionage.
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While the consensus here appears to be that the "ends justified the means", what mechanism should be used to actually label someone a whistleblower vs a criminal/traitor? After all, not everyone thinks the NSA should be barred from reading emails or keeping meta-data. (I tend to agree that they overstepped their mandate and should have more explicit limitations, but not that they are an out-of-control menace that must be stopped at all costs).
If, for example, someone working for the NSA thinks a particular program is "bad" and leaks details that leave it hobbled, should they be given a pass because some percentage of the US population agrees? Should it be based on opinion polls? Maybe just /. commenters? Should we mimic the Romans when they honored Passover by letting the crowds pick a criminal for pardon? We can pardon a Turkey and a whistleblower for Thanksgiving.
The point I am trying to make is that Snowden may deserve leniency based on "mitigating circumstances", but he is not accused of "political" crimes. He is accused of leaking state secrets. Such cases cannot be left to trial by Twitter. Yes, trust in government is at an all-time low, but that does not make it irrelevant. And it certainly doesn't make it wrong on everything. If people get to do whatever they want in the name of "fighting tyranny", we will end up with a kind of "Stand Your Ground" precedent for leakers - "I felt threatened by the NSA spying on penguins in Peru, so no criminal charges should be brought."
He is a criminal, he should live on the lamb, not come back here, and be smug about being a true patriot.
Does it suck, yes? Did he reveal secrets he had no right revealing? Yes. He ratted out the NSA spying on US citizens... and so much more.
The so much more is inexcusable and not whistleblower protected. He is a traitor and a patriot. So that begs the question, was the "Patriotic act" there just to disguise the rest.
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.... so a 313 Million man march can organize outside the courtroom and WE (the 313 million people) can get something up in here fixed.
I don't think "everyone does this" is any kind of justification for doing something wrong. An act doesn't become justified simply based on the number of people who engage in it.
IMO, spying is really something that needs to go away, except against enemy nations during wartime. It puts the person hired as the spy in a very risky situation, being paid to lie and steal information for a government that has no entitlement to receive it in the first place.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if most spy operations go on today primarily because, "The other guys are doing it back to us, so we HAVE to." Sounds like preschool logic to me.
So in that sense, I don't hold Snowden accountable for leaking some of that information. Most of the feigned outrage on the part of other nations is probably just posturing to begin with. Pretty sure the higher-ups already knew the U.S. was spying on them before Snowden "revealed" it.
If I was a citizen of Russia, or China I would want to give him a medal. As I happen unfortunately to be a USian, I hate him and think he should be executed. He did more damage than Manning or anyone else could hope to do. Unfortunately my fellow USians are stupid and would rather engage in partisan bickering between Democrat and Republican (straight vs homosexual, etc) rather than look at the real enemies. Here is clue. Russia does not give a fuck about the USA, neither does China. Do you support immigration? Try to get a job in Mexico. They will laugh their asses off as you submit your employment application and then throw it in the trash.
The USA is a country in name only. We have been bought off by Mexico, China, Israel, etc. We are no longer a sovereign nation.
We will spend trillions of dollars to fight a war against religious fundamentalists who believe in family values (hmm kind of reminds me of the founding fathers of the USA), yet refuse to close the borders allowing the flow of drugs and immigrants across the Mexican border. Here is another clue: illegal Mexicans have killed more USAians than Islamic fundamentalists ever have.
The has been sold to the highest bidder.
Just prosecute him like anyone else in the same situation. The ends do not justify the means, we punish crime for a reason. He knew that when he did it. And really, he needs to sit in jail to serve as a martyr. Pardoning him would prevent that. /Not like a pardon would matter, anyway //He'd still conveniently dissappear
Snowden should run for President, or possibly better, vice-President. America needs heroes right now. Failing that, NSA Director would be a good outcome for everyone.
I am being deadly serious.
May the Maths Be with you!
It all stems from the top, and Snowden holds the key to put them all behind bars.
I am surprised no one said the obvious - he deserves to get the girl back!
The excuse "but I was just following orders" has already been tried.
True, but it typically only fails as an excuse when the people who gave the orders have been removed from power. The problem with illegal orders is that while those giving them are in power not following them is illegal but once they are out of power having followed them is illegal. It's a no-win situation for those involved.
Full pardon, Medal of Honor, and my resignation.
There's a group of congressmen out for James Clapper's blood. He lied to congress. Under oath. That's perjury. They're all republican too. Which means I'm a little disappointed in the democrats.
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You may need to re-read the question: ... you were Holder and Obama...
If
I'm pretty sure you're awesome suggestion does not pass the test of being aligned with Obama opinion. I predict your speculation will not be implemented by Holder or Obama.
I can pretty much guarantee, though, that Obama is not going to win the next Presidential election. That is, unless even more breakage of the constitution occurs. Yeah, actually, I withdraw that guarantee.
He should be put in front of a firing squad and be shot dead for treason. I can only hope that once the media hype surrounding him dies down that one of our many spies in Russia will slip some poison in Snowden's coffee one morning.
Sometimes you are a legitimate whistle-blower, sometimes you go beyond and earn your few ounces of lead.
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-- Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...... Sad that this has come to pass in the country that it has and when people do speak out they are treated as traitors
(emphasis mine)
You bring up an interesting point, and I don't think that you're trolling.
But your statement presupposes that you're living under the rule of law, in the USA at the moment.
But, we have proof that this is not so:
no... that's *NOT* what happened; and this is, in fact, the scary thing for us outside the USA:
7. No profit. Seriously. I think you have NO idea of the damage this has done to US interests worldwide.
To paraphrase it in computer-like Slashdot terms:
NSA >> official USA government
NSA pwns official USA government
NSA is above the US law (which means that you don't have rule of law which was your original point)
So... tell me.. if we want to do business with an American multinational; or sign a trade agreement with the USA; who do we have to talk to? Whose is the hand up the puppet's bum? It is unclear. Conspiracy theories are just theories, but the reality is that outsiders cannot know who currently leads the USA (just that it's not the official president and government).
Better not to do any business with USA until the situation is cleared up. If it turns out that e.g. the Mafia is pulling the strings of the NSA/USA government, then we'll at least know whom we're negotiating with, and what negotiating points might be of strategic value of them.
tl;dr version:
security organizations cause scandal. well, shit happens. that is not nice but there are procedures under rule of law to correct it. For government employees in USA I belive it's called "impeachment" (it's not just for presidents, you know).
the people in oversight/power react to the revelations with "oh well.. so our employees lied to us.. let's increase their budget". That is NOT normal. People in power (congressmen) are probably not the kind of pushovers that would react like that, or they wouldn't have climbed to the top of the US political pyramid in the first place. Can you tell us if many congressmen like Senator Dianne Feinstein actually have humble, kindly personalities? We don't see them on TV very often over here.
To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
1) NSA MAY have broken the law. 2) He definitely broke the law. NSA may need some government action, because it isn't clear if they actually broke the law, or some individuals' interpretation of the constitution. Mr. Snowden definitely broke the law, and needs to be prosecuted. Any altruism which might have been his objective - and I question if there really was any - is way overshadowed by his blatent disregard for the law. He didn't just release information about spying on US citizens; he released a lot of other information which has nothing to do with whistleblowing. This man did severe damage to our country, and needs to be punished accordingly.
If that's the case, then the Dept of Justice Head is a traitor for allow immigrants to break the law and ignoring it, thus doing far more damage to the average citizen and the U.S. then Snowden has ever thought of. Sure he damaged intelligence, but how does that translate directly to hurting the people, it doesn't, and allegations don't equal facts...
Then we could look at Bengazi, or the many other instances of failure to follow our own laws set by congress which federal employees are bound to abide by, not to mention the UCMJ to which the top head of NSA is required to abide by as well...
Are you trying to be funny, or are you honestly not smart enough to believe that Russia is one of the United States' biggest political rivals? The exact same can be said for China, where he made a pitstop before jumping to Russia.
And often that's the only justification for classifying them.
Ordinary people put evidence like that through a shedder, but the psychos running our government don't even want to destory the records that incriminate them, so they create legal protections for hiding them.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Spying on foreign companies, messing with dragnet collecting of information, yup, I'm fine with that being made public.
Spying on foreign governments and planting bugs in hardware used by criminals? Nope, sorry, that goes too far as that's part if the NSA remit. Giving up secrets that help criminals is a bad thing, and while I like that you've opened up the dragnet stuff, spilling the beans on the targeted stuff doesn't sit well. In a digital age, some surveillance secrets are worth keeping, so sorry Snowden, you're an amateur whistleblower, you didn't understand where the line between your personal thoughts and what actually was wrong lay.
He seems to think he knows what the agency should be doing and how, which is more than I can say for anyone else in the government, so hire him back and let him run it.
That will teach him.
Congress interfered by granting his testimony a limited immunity, in turn barring the (fumbling?) prosecutor from using the same. Perhaps they'll be that dumb again. Certainly it would be a very interesting hearing.
Intelligence is not a function of one's beliefs. I have very different beliefs about religion, philosophy, and politics from a great many people, including people on Slashdot, but I would be rather stupid to assume that they were stupid on this account. Indeed, someone could have views diametrically opposed to my own on the all most important questions and I wouldn't think them less smart for the fact.
Now, how one arrives at beliefs, that can tell a thing or two about intelligence. But that's not what you asked about. If you'd honestly like to know my views on Russia, and aren't just making an assertion in the form of a question, then the old article I linked comes close.
The excuse "but I was just following orders" has already been tried.
I like to call that the Nuremburg defense.
Mitt? Is that you? [theamerica...vative.com]
You probably didn't notice I was careful to use the term "political rivals". Russia AND China tend to stand on the opposite side of the balance in the current international climate. I'd never call Russia our #1 or #2 foe because they're largely marginalized (just the political equivalent of being very loud).
If we're to have an open and democratic system, the American people must be told when their laws are being violated by their supposed servants. In an open system, you cannot tell the people without telling the world.
That is insanely naive. You think you should have access to nuclear codes or top secret military campaigns just because you live in a democracy? And, had you read my posts carefully I was pretty clear in delineating the different between Snowden leaking domestic espionage campaigns vs foreign campaigns. That was the WHOLE purpose of my post!
Nothing?
Americans already assume we spy on foreign governments. The only thing Snowden has accomplished is blow up a lot of ongoing operations. Now, how does that help us?
That's not nothing
Again if you bothered to pay attention to what I wrote, I said I'd pardon him if he was motivated by the public good. But, you take a closer look at the kinds of information Snowden leaked. All he did was dump whatever he could get his hands on. Some of that is nothing more than personal and touchy correspondences. That is NOT what "minimizing injury" means in terms of the whistleblowers' code.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Some of the leaks were in the public interest. Many were not. If he ever wants to return to the US, he'll have to face the music.
...the Nobel Peace prize.
Just like Nelson Mandela, Yasser Arafat, Lech Wasa, Desmond Tutu, Henry Kissinger and Mikhail Gorbachev.
He also deserves to be recognized and accepted by the government of the USA as a fighter for freedom and democracy.
FOR PEACE
He copied classified information, regardless of the ability of the data to address the concerns he had, and arranged to have them made public. And admitted to it.
He then fled the country to escape prosecution.
He has already admitted his involvement in the breaking of several laws. There is no question he did those things.
The only question is whether or not his reason for doing so was enough to justify his actions.
So far, I don't see any valid legal reason to not find him guilty and toss him in jail for the rest of his life. On multiple charges.
The only reason I would agree to is if he had a specific person whose life was in danger that he was trying to save. And that person was a US citizen whose life was in danger because of the actions of the NSA. And that specific person wasn't someone trying to do harm to the United States. (Whether the NSA is doing harm or intending to do harm is an opinion, not a fact.)
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
Plead guilty and then get a fair trial, welcome to the United States of StaziLand. Snowden did the US and the world a favor by exposing the US state security apparatus for what it really was, a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy. ref
Can't think of someone more deserving.
As opposed to *firing* Clapper and stuffing him in jail for lying under oath to Congress.....
mark
Several countries offered asylum but since the USA doesn't respect international laws even up to the point of stopping presidential planes he is locked up in Russia.
People shouldn't forget that it is the lack of respect for other countries sovereignty and freedom that is creating this situation, not the lack of decent nations in the world.
Snowden did two things:
1. He blew the whistle on domestic violations of the constitution - congrats are in order
2. He has leaked DoD counter inteligence actions carried out against foriegn nations and divulged our ally's secrets - hanging
He should be pardoned for #1, but needs be prosecuted for #2. He did not have to do both.
Ok. Then what about prosecuting people who committed crimes of violating the constitution. All our other laws are derived from the authority of the constitution. If you do something unconstitutional, then it should not be crime to have someone else blow the whistle on you.
The excuse "but I was just following orders" has already been tried.
But the courts have ruled all of it legal. I might add these are the same courts that get their authority to make such rulings from the constitution. I know it's not popular on slashdot, but hopefully you guys will face the obvious facts one day.
"Mr. Snowden, I, Barrack Obama, apologize for this ordeal you've been through. You've done the people of your country the greatest service any of us could possibly ask of you. In that vein, I issue you a full pardon for whatever crimes some people may think you've done, I also want to thank you for your help in identifying these issues that my administration has continued to perpetrate. You are a man of great integrity, honesty, and owner of the biggest set of cohones next to Jack Ryan that I've ever known. Not only is it a great honor to meet you in person to offer you this sorry excuse of an explanation, but in addition, I'd like to offer you a free home on Federal land, and a generous allowance to live out your life on US soil as you legally see fit. It would be my hope that you would also accept an offer of permanent employment with the Federal Government in a role of Homeland Security Watchdog where you can continue your work of protecting our people from ourselves going forward." That's kind of the gist of what should happen.
Bush pardoned himself
Fiction. Deliberate BS on your part.
Why stops Obama from pardoning Snowden?
Recognition that he (Snowden) babbled about a lot more than just say "the NSA is doing stuff we all know they're doing." Including specific details on overseas operations/capabilities.
We all know that Snowden should be protected by the whisleblower protection act
No, we don't all know that. Because he didn't pursue his crusade using any of the procedures that would grant him that protection. Not even close.
but the government is weaseling its way around the law
Really? Which one. Be specific. The law is very clear about taking over other people's NSA user accounts, dumping tons of data, running off with it, and disclosing it in direct contradiction to the oath you just recently swore not to do that very thing.
Funny, since he was working for the government, he is liable for espionage charges
You don't have to be working for the government to be prosecuted for espionage. Why are you just making stuff up?
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Presidential medal of freedom (which for some unknown reasons went to Oprah).
If we elect him President, he can pardon himself, right?
He should agree to plead guilty only if the entire NSA pleads guilty first...
And take a look at Ghandi -- in many cases, the idea was to protest in a non-violent manner by continuing to do something that you should be able to do, but let the British soldiers beat you -- accept your punishment, so that the British citizens themselves might become outraged at what their "law enforcement" was doing, and thus the laws might be changed.
Yes this was also MLK's aim, many of MLK's followers (of all colours) were beaten by police themselves or the police stood idly by while they were beaten by members of the public. It became a nightly event on the news, decent American's were outraged at the senseless violence from the authorities and millions of middle class citizens stood up in their defence. A search for "civil rights violence" on youtube will give abundant examples of those news reports and it's very clear the protesters did not fight back. Similar revulsion and outrage was apparent when US soldiers were shown massacring a captured Vietnam village on the six o'clock news.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
A short drop and a sudden stop.
I think you have a misunderstanding. In our society, the 'rule of law' is based more on color, wealth, politics, connections, and whether the justice system 'likes' you than on innocence or guilt.
*fuck* the rule of law. Laws have no judgement, rationality, and are subject to incredibly selective enforcement by cops, prosecutors, and the coercive apparatus of the government as a whole, entirely at the whim of officials who have no accountability or responsibility.
You really want a system where innocence or guilt is decided based on social class and race? Because that's where we're at right now.
If you'd like to talk about the rule of law, we can talk about our broken court system, where innocent until presumed guilty is a legal fiction, and better than 90% of crimes are resolved with a plea-bargain rather than a trial.
It's all a sham, and 'justice' is entirely illusory unless you're wealthy, educated, and connected enough to game the system. This is one of the (relatively few) places where the tea party and libertarians really have a solid point.
"We have to go forth and crush every world view that doesn't believe in tolerance and free speech." - David Brin
Snowden has done his duty as a citizen: to expose the abuses of his country's government. And he should do his duty and receive the consequence of violating his oath: He collected and exposed secrets after agreeing not to do so. He can't have it both ways. Duty is duty.
Can't think of anything else.
all signed all pardon letters signed by Obama live on Cnn
minute he lands behead him in time square and put his head on a pike next to his entire families heads as a warning to all traitors and. spies everywhere - not joking - hope he enjoys the rest of his life in a back water called Russia who can not even make a decent stealth fighter - he should spied for china at least he could get better living conditions - he , his parents, grand parents are a family of traitors
The sad thing is, there are some people who wouldn't recognize this as satire.
...Holder and Obama... I'd try to prosecute Snowdon to the fullest extent possible. Based upon their words to date.
And if I were Snowdon, I'd tell them to go pound sand.
What you are describing is "might makes right". The rule of law is supposed to be where everyone is equal before it, not just those wealthy, educated, and connected enough to game the system.
If a lot of people get it so badly mixed up like you that helps explain why US politics is so weird.
You might be overstating things a bit.
Wyden’s Stunt Was Congress at its Worst
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
The AC's post is false. Bush never pardoned himself.
ScentCone's reply is correct.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Hilarious that people modded this as flamebait. Anything to avoid the truth, right people? Typical.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
The altruistic bits are one thing... but there are plenty of other things that are just sexy bullshit that he should have shut up about. Pointing out transgressions is one thing, but spilling all our secrets was for publicity, and puts our government at risk. Well.. if there is one thing, its time for us to come up with some new tricks.
Time for a new Political party in the US (or two!) One is off the rails Other cant pony up a leader.
Presidential pardon in one hand, Presidential Medal of Freedom in the other, and then appoint him to oversee bringing the NSA back into line with the letter and spirit of the law.
So just to add to the Vote:
A Pardon at least
Who showed us just how far over the edge we have gone and given us a chance to fight back for our society.
He deserves the Congressional Medal of Honor. What he did took courage far beyond that shown by normal mortals. Few life insurance companies, even now, would give him the normal terms for his age.
...Edward Snowden should head the NSA. I think President Obama should be impeach. Then both Obama and Bush shall be tried and executed for many treasons.
No harm will come to him. If his actions are not already that of their pawn then he shall be soon enough. To destroy him would show weakness and vulnerability. To force a decision upon another is the sign of a bully, not any form of justice. Guilt is a fleeting emotional whim hardly much different than a fart and thereby irrelevant towards any investigation.
I don't understand this thinking that the US gets to have some kind of say in Snowden's future. He's just not that into you - USA, take a hint. Who cares what you offer or don't offer, he's broken up with you, with no plans to come back. There are better places to live anyway.
The buck stops at the top.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Now, how does that help us?
As an American citizen, it helps me by letting me know what the government thugs are doing in our name. As usual, nothing I'd approve of.
Mr. Snowden deserves to come home a national hero and a free man. I hope the government IS listening, because that would be a first.
Oh right King Bootlicker -- asking a question pertinent to a subject over which one is vested with oversight, is so, so, SO much worse than the felony (*) of committing perjury to Congress.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/usc...
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Ford's pardon of Nixon was the point where it became blindingly obvious that there are two sets of legal rules -- those for the ruling class, and those for everyone else. It certainly existed prior to that, but since then, the Federal Government can even hide behind a facade of respectability.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Comment removed based on user account deletion
nots -- that's obviously "can't even hide"
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Snowden slung his balls out on the line, doing what he considered right.. I mean who the hell does that anymore? Who gets to be a real martyr on a global scale like this anymore? This is a case of people, who don't give a crap about society or their common man other than what they can be manipulated into doing for them, breaking the trust of the American people to enrich and empower themselves without accountability... and then crying about "national security" against "WMD's and Terrorists" when called out on crimes against the constitution and society as a whole.
It's shrouded in the mist of "righteousness" and "patriotism", but the cause is unfortunately the same old human frailty.. Greed, selfishness, disregard for others. Evil.
Just following orders is alive and well. We just decided we didn't like what the Nazis were doing (rightly so, but not the point). We DO however like what the police/intel agencies are doing overall, so almost never is an officer personally held account for an illegal action committed as part of his duty. Do I really need to provide examples of this? It's rampant.
I'll give one. Here in my current home town of NYC, brass ordered quotas on illegal stop-and-frisks. "Just following orders" will prevent a single cop from being held personally accountable for an illegal stop he performed (maybe civil liability).
Plus, maybe a job supervising legal compliance at the NSA.
Snowden is working with the Russians. The leaks are just too precisely targeted to be released by an amateur. The punishment for high treason is the death penalty.
The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
You'd have to accept that idiots acceptance of the premise that we need prism to be safe in the first place.
We just don't. The whole NSA apparatus is so far over the line its not funny.
I am not willing to live in a surveillance state simply to increase our odds slightly of catching terrorists. If a few people have to die at the hands of terrorists so that we can all be truly free. SO BE IT.
I'm unconvinced the security apparatus can actually save us anyway. So for me, the choice is between living free and dealing with a few terrorist attacks, or living in a surveillance state and STILL dealing with a few terrorist attacks.
'Hand over every copy, and all the keys, to everything you have, and we wont but a bullet in your head".
That's exactly the kind of "Deal" I would cut Mr big-flappy-mouth-deluded-attention-seeker Snowden.
My advice to brave Edward: you already know the ugliness of the machine, so why bargain with the ghost inside?
The impossibility of a corrupt system according justice to its whistleblowers is a good reason for Edward to remain in Russia. Moreover, he should know, and will know based on poll data, that his sacrifice is scarcely appreciated by our society of sheep, anyway.
You've done your share. You've paid your price in loss of home and comfort. F--- Washington; construct a life out of all the many rich possibilities that have nothing to do with this declining empire and its sordid leaders.
True, but only because the previous NSA whistleblowers were all silenced and screwed over, too. What's the good of playing by the rules when the powers that be won't do the same?
Snowden, like other government workers (even contractors), took an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. By revealing the depth of the spying done on American citizens by our own government he upheld that oath. Whether he "went through proper channels" is bullshit and academic. He did the right thing and we should give him a ticker tape parade while tar-and-feathering the real traitors, the people who create the surveillance state and those who still support and defend it today.
God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
...we say that "the strictness of laws is alleviated by the optionality of their execution".
Now I see that it is universal approach.
The USA is Gods own country and God created man (including Snowden) after his own image. Therefore Snowden is a representative of God (like everyone else) and should be treated accordingly. But wait! How did we treat the sons of God before?
He deserves as any other officer who reveals a crime. NSA was breaching the Human Rights of the US and Alien citizens.
after the trials of Clapper, Alexander, Holder, and other proven liars, perjurers, and enemies of the U.S. constitution. It would defeat a sense of justice not to start where there is the greatest and most obvious and available stink and crime.
Until the uncovered enemies of the U.S. constitution have seen proper justice according to the extent of their crimes against the constitution and the American people (let's not forget that they have defrauded the population out of dozens of billions of dollars to be spent against their interest, against the stated purpose, and out of democratic control), any trial for Snowden would be utterly inappropriate and it is a total travesty that the current governmental crime lords even dare mulling about it.
What snowden did has not been proven illegal either. Indeed quite the reverse: they've unconvered many criminal activities.
Moreover, many other leaks have been done with the complicity of the federal government and politicians (Valerie).
So lets check those others first.
What does Edward Snowden deserve?
A spot on Mount Rushmore. His face on the dollar bill.
For putting "home of the brave" back into what used to be the "land of the free".
A goddamn beer, i bet hes thirsty.
Why do you all keep dumbing down this topic???? I've pointed out now 3 times the distinction between domestic and foreign espionage and you all respond with "well he found bad stuff so it's OK."
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
No one cares about your precious distinctions; I don't, at least. What the NSA is doing is wrong. I don't want allies spied on, and I don't want innocent people spied on. Nationalistic pricks who only care about the domestic spying can go to hell.
He deserves the highest honor in America, the "Presidential Medal of Freedom."
Huh? Sounds like yet another blunder for the hapless AG. If not for physical attributes, he would have been stuffed in the clown car with Hillary and other x-officials before the last election. BTW, what IS the status of the following criminal investigations so loudly announced? 1. Fast and Furious? 2. Rangles' tax fraud? 3. Bengazi? 4. IRS fraud?
He deserves a medal
Congressional Medal of Honor, full pardon and appointed ombudsman of the NSA.
Our Founding Fathers were very clear on the rights of American citizens. Edward Snowden did the American people a great service. If this administration held a clear vision of this entire episode they would give Snowden a Full Pardon. Some Americas are very naive when it comes to their personal security and safety. Not only did he expose the NSA for what it is, he helped Americans see that they need to think about protecting their private information.
The discussion of penalties will be embarrassing when he is awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
Explain how he committed crimes? First, let's examine crime itself - it requires a victim, yes? Who is the victim here? Certainly not the general public - we're the ones he's trying to help, and he certainly hasn't brought us harm! Well, then, what about the NSA? Only if you consider a murderer a victim when he is shot by someone defending others the murderer wishes to kill. So again, where is the victim? And thus where is the crime?
Ok, you might say, the NSA keeps us safe. Consider this. Bob, your hypothetical neighbor, comes over to your house and reads your e-mail, opens your snailmail and reads it, videotapes you and your wife in bed, etc. Is HE keeping you safe? Not in the least. So how is some random person you'll likely never meet keeping you safe? He's not - he's simply outright invading your privacy. THAT is a crime, and should be punished. When the law protects people who do these things, and "criminalizes" those who reveal that such things are happening, the law is flawed.
He "deserves" an invitation to the White House, a photo op with the prez, a memorial built in his name, and a national holiday - replace Christopher Columbus - by official history a child slaving pedophile genocidal lunatic of the most evil order - with Edward Snowden Day. Secret Service protection for the rest of his life, badges medals, invitations to bridge opening ceremonies, free ice cream iphones and internet for life. What else? Of course, that would be what would happen if "Amerika" was "America". And nothing less.
I dont think anyone (govt or otherwise) should be allowed to suppress evidence of law breaking. Therefore it should not have been illegal for Snowden to release the evidence he did release even if he was required to sign an agreement to secrecy.
If you signed an agreement not to testify against your friend and that friend went on to rob a bank, commit rape or commit murder, could that agreement be held to be binding ? It should not be possible.
He deserve a medal for keeping so many news people and new organizations working, and reporting about him. Lets not forget all the movement it has brought to all of our politicians and such in Washington. He is a great example of a job security maker :-)
Snowden deserves to be hung by his cojones.
A full pardon.
Then a medal.. I'm thinking maybe the Presidential Medal of Freedom...
Then a large statue on the national mall, depicted collectively with other whistleblowers in a monument to those who risked their lives and freedom (and in some cases, lost it) to expose government abuses.
Why do we always start this conversation in the middle?
If the NSA were not misbehaving, Snowden would not have had anything to do.
Forgive him and fix the NSA.
And fix the Internet so it can not happen again while we're at it!
Edward Snowden compromise the US government's ability to protect itself from it's enemies. Were allies of the US spied on? yes. Were US citizens spied on? yes. Do we live in a perfect world? Hell no! Hence, the need to be vigilant about any potential for any hater of the US to do us serious harm. If Eric Holder can get him back, I say go for it.
I suspect most Democrats want Clapper, but they're willing to sit back and let the Republicans take care of him in their own way as long as the end result satisfies them. This is politics, so the Republicans are trying to avoid having anything land on their party.
A pardon? Fuck that. What he deserves is to be the interim leader of the world until we can hold a full plebiscite on how the world should be governed and why all of the so-called rules he broke are meaningless and worthless and not actual crimes for him to be pardoned from.
What is he going to get as soon as the US coaxes him out of hiding and into their waiting and loving arms? Piano wire and a secret grave. Torture until he reveals the location of the compromised documents which remain. If you think words and promises are enough for the people who want this guy to shut up, you really need to give more thought and examination into who they are, what they are capable of, why they want it.
Sadly, a Libertarian cannot force his views on another, and freedom cannot spread as does the cancer known as religion.
The Government should welcome him back and give him the job of NSA Director.
Wife, kids, house, car, hardwares, softwares (bank & media), web site and every privacy you can think of were taken away from me after I stated I was working on a 1995 project called: Non partisan active participation Democracy. Today I would rather say: Following representative, from effective to Universal Democracy. It's based on what I call "Localism" which, I believe, eventually inspired the Metagovernment US team. I have been persecuted since 1997 and prosecuted since 2004. My country has obviously been using the NSA techniques or similar to keep track of every single bit of data I would store on any hard drive, reason why I started using PC's I would no longer connect to the Internet. Before the Edward Snowden revelations I realized that the data I was storing on those non-connected PC's, generally related to various law-suits I was having to face, were no longer my own property. Thanks to the revelations, I now have the knowledge that such disgusting practices are effectively being used against activists as well as the technical explanations. Edward Snowden deserves, and not for the selfish little individual I represent, my highest gratitude. I believe he knows about it and, if not, I made sure the country that gave him asylum was properly advised about my feelings regarding such a young courageous US fellow citizen.
He deserves the highest honors and a holiday in his name. I cannot praise this kind of bravery, honesty, doing the right thing no matter the personal cost highly enough. He brought the utterly unAmerican activities of the NSA to public attention. This is most excellent.
We've got nuclear weapons and a large standing army, everyone knows where we live, our government should have little need for secrets (let alone secret laws and secret courts.)
Snowden is a hero and deserves to be paid back monetarily for the damage to his life and reputation. This would happen if our country was not run by a bunch of amoral quasi-criminals.
Yeah, to hell with facts! Let's just paint the world in crayon!
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Well, that's a strange reply, considering what I said. Are you unable to comprehend that people can make different moral judgements than you?
Snowden deserves Obama's Peace Prize. /said it twice. Sorry to drone on
He deserves the Medal of Freedom (the civilian equivalent of the Congressional Medal Honor) and a ticker tape parade down Broadway. He has done this country a great service by exposing the underbelly of a burgeoning police state under the guise of 'protecting us'. And I further believe that Obama, in allowing the NSA spying on ALL of our own citizens, has violated his oath of office: remember when he swore to uphold and protect the Constitution. For this, he deserves to be impeached! The fact that some secret "court" has decided that the NSA spying is legal DOES NOT MAKE IT SO! To quote two great American patriots: Patrick Henry - "Give me liberty of give me death", and Benjamin Franklin, who said "he who would give up liberty for security, deserves neither Liberty nor security"!!!!!!!!
A pardon isn't enough. He deserves the Presidential Medal of Freedom. And Chelsea Manning should get the Medal of Honor; she's ex-military so she's eligible for that award.
There's so many of these it's getting unbearable.
Do we want to heal this country, or divide it further. The Obama administration needs to ask themselves about how they are viewed. An open admission by the Attorney General of guilty until proven innocent is the PR nightmare from hell. So, you prosecute Snowden, and thereby increasing his international fame, acclaim, and he serves as a martyr for every body who views the current administration as Nazi like oppressive out to destroy the Constitution they swore to protect. Or you give him what he deserves, a mettle of honor for standing up to and against forces and powers that were so overwhelming that no other person had the courage to risk and lose everything so the United States of America could forever remain a free country. No you bring him home, honor him, and use him as an example of why America is still the best country. Because Snowden using his First Amendment rights, protected the fourth, fourteenth, and every other Amendment rights of Americans every where. You use him to show the system is not broken, and the President uses him as an example of what is expected from every American is civil or government service when they see or become aware of gross abuses of power and overstepping their authority by those in power. He risked it all, including his own citizenship. It is so foul that the one man with the courage to save the soul of this country from herself, is the one man who may currently not be allowed back to his homeland. If snowden hadn't told the public what the government was doing, we could never make changes. He is a hero, and he deserves to be treated like one. And the government can use his actions to show the new leaf which has been turned and how his actions represent true patriotism and courage as they do.
Pin a Medal of Freedom on him. If that protects him from the bullets from the firing squad for treason, then reassign Obama's Peace Prize to him. If not, sodomize his corpse.
I do IT work mostly as an out sourced IT Administrator such as Snowden was. The code for me is that all information I may see, outside of child pornography or some sort of definitive planned act of violence, (as with true with social workers, health professionals etc.) is confidential. Most of my peers in my circle subscribe to this same philosophy. I don't look for these things. I'm not supposed. If I did, I would be doing the very thing the NSA has been doing. So if one of my hundreds of clients, (different business - as I say, I am an outsourced IT professional). has this stuff on a machine, I've never seen it. And it is not my responsibility, nor is it ethical to look for these things. That activity is the same sort of snooping that the NSA is guilty of.
Snowden consciously, purposefully and with premeditation scoured the NSA documents. He had no business looking for these things while his job was as a system administrator. What pisses me off the most is that he broke the tacit code and understanding between a Sys Admin and his client.
As for being a whistle blower, this is ridiculous. He didn't have to go out of the country for a news source. The NY Times, Washington Post, LA Times would have outed the docs. (Remember Watergate?) The other factor in this whole thing is the naivete of people in thinking this was not occurring. It was quite common knowledge about the FBI's Carnivore information gathering software instituted in the late 90s. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_%28software%29 )
This sort of intrusive data mining and secret deeds are common to the same degree, if not more so, in many other countries, including Germany, England, Russia, China, Iran and on and on and on. And to say, "Well. we in the US are above that." Seriously? Our civil rights are a pipedream played up by political expediency. The whole world is dirty. Snowden is not a whistle blower, a spin some have chosen to chastise the US with. He betrayed his position as a Sys/Admin. He has betrayed his country as there are so many better ways to have "blown the whistle." He's was just a common person who wanted to be a somebody.
I think the US should accept things had to change and that it is time to have a more transparent society whilst retaining safeguards. Clearly everyone accepts there has to be surveillance but it must be proportionate and with popular support. It is when everything is done covertly and with subterfuge that people become anxious. The US government should accept that what he did he did for good reason and that in this case a pardon is appropriate and that maybe even a consultative position would not be something that should be ruled out.
All charges dropped and a Nobel Prize.
No pardon can be issued.
Should Bush and Cheney be pardoned? Oh who am I kidding. They should be tried and executed in the public square for the world to see the the US can clean up after it's own mess.
he should stay the hell out of the United States - they will kill him if he comes back. They'll tell him they won't, of course, but they'll be lying - not an uncommon thing for our government.
We already knew that the governments spy their citizens. Including The Simpsons in their movie, the shown the truth.
So he didn't commit any crime, and so he doesn't need pardon, clemency or another type of reivindication. He said the truth, and that's not a crime. Hidding the truth is a crime, is the same as lie to all the citizens, so really the government should be the guilty who is asking pardon.
On all countries...
Eric Holder should get on his damn knees and beg for mercy. He is a moron of monumental proportions, eclipsed only by his boss. He ought to have know that when you throw a guy like Snowden to the wolves, he will most certainly return leading the pack! My offer to Holder would be: "You and your boss take a hike now, and I'll back off some." Without the support of a massively corrupt main stream media, Holder and his boss would already be in jail.
I would normally make a long statement but this truly is easy. Prosecute for what? Exposing criminals? He doesn't need pardoned. HE DID NOTHING WRONG. It is NOT a crime to expose criminals performing criminal acts. In fact it is your duty according to the Constitution of the United States. DO YOUR JOB PEOPLE. Thanks. :)
I'm old, not dead. Well that's my 2 cents worth, your mileage may vary. I say what I think, not what you want to hear.
It won't stop until people see him face justice with at least the same fate as Manning. Given what damage he has done to the US and its ability to defend itself wrt intelligence, he would be getting quite the deal.
Otherwise he will just become open season. Same goes with any accomplices
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
While the Rest Of Us point out that Snowden broke the law in ways that cannot be mitigated by the allegations made through unauthorized disclosures.
To what degree is still up in the air, but at the very least he is no whistleblower - no matter what red meat he dangles in the air to make you think otherwise.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Even if he's handed over the materials, it would still be no less satisfying to go after Snowden. In addtion, one could also go after the people that received the information and aided in the commision of said crimes.
Save the pardons for anyone that Snowden targets so that nothing can happen to them. Save the awards for the people that capture Snowden.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Suggesting that we should have a Constitutional blind spot for surveillance only leaves room for people to go undetected.
It's not been a problem for the entire history of the NSA to do what they do until one of their folks becomes disgruntled enough to sell their country out.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.