The acid test isn't really considered a good test for complience, which is why the IE team doesn't care too much about it. It uses malformed CSS and doesn't really test the important parts of CSS.
The Vista fonts may be great (I'd like to see them), but IE7 (or ANY _application_) turning on ClearType (espeically with no warning!) is a seriously bad idea.
I wish MS would release the Vista fonts ahead of Vista. *shrug*
I've tried the Opera 9 beta, and it's now 'somewhat' goofy, which is what I said, not 'terrible.' Big difference between 'somewhat goofy' and 'terrible,' though hopefully English isn't your native language.:)
If I could turn some of that stuff off in IE7's interface, that'd be just fine; it's very Win XPish for my taste.
I think ClearType on a CRT is a matter of personal preference. To my eye, it looks good for regular and bold text, but it makes everything kinda bolded (and bolded more bolded), which is not good for those of us who prefer light fonts. For italics, it's _really_ bad, as I learned today.
As for your guide, it would be helpful to know what you mean by a 'tiny' screen, and 'big' res. My work machine has a 17" CRT running at 1024x768, and I considered ClearType a failure on it.
But then again, I'm one of those people who are incredibly annoyed by dampening wires on aperture grille monitors. I'm amazed most people don't even notice them, or aren't bothered by them. They must be blind or somethin'...
Of course, cleartype is wicked ugly on LCDs as well...
I figured it would be; I remember ClearType back on my Apple//e, and the extra colours around the letters bugged me even back then. Hopefully the extra resolution of modern computers will make it work better when I get around to buying an LCD. I'm still waiting for better black rendition. I'll probably wind up getting a SED monitor before a decent LCD is available.
I loaded IE7 and FF and IE7 used about 21meg empty, with FF using about 24meg empty. That's the only memory test I've yet done. It's not like FF is slim on the memory. I wouldn't mind that so much about FF if they would make the UI multithreaded; it's absolutely ridiculous to have such a program have a single threaded UI in this day. Bleh. Does anyone know if FF 2 will have a multithreaded UI? I keep hearing about it for new versions, but it never seems to show up.
Only if it's on an LCD; if it's a CRT, then it's a matter of opinion as to whether it's a good thing. For me, it is not, but I have a very discerning eye. Regular text is more readable (thought it's also bigger, which I consider a major design flaw in ClearType), but italicized text is unbearable, based on my own experience.
I'd love to see ClearType on an LCD, but I'll likely be running a Mac long before I have the money for a decent LCD anyway, so it won't make a difference.:)
It's not a matter of getting the IE7 beta installer AFTER the WGA challenge; it's part of the _installer_ itself. I downloaded the installer before using WGA (my WinXP is legal).
Someone else here just posted instructions about using a hacked DLL; but I don't know if those instructions work; that's left as an exercise for the reader.
Quick question for you: does IE7 antialias text normally? Or is it a ClearType-only thing? I understand ClearType to be only for LCD panels. (Also, what do you hate about it? I've never used it myself.)
It IS only for LCD panels, though some people will tell you it also works on CRTs: not true. There are no subpixels on a CRT. If you have a discerning eye, you'll hate it on a CRT. What I don't like about what it does to text on a CRT: it makes everything look bold. It mostly looks better, even on a CRT, but only for normal or bolded text; italicized text looks _terrible_, and it very hard to read.
There's only two things I want from IE7 as a designer: antialiased fonts and PNG alpha channel support. I doubt I'll get either.
Well, there is a font setting in Windows to emulated antialiases fonts that works well enough (but it'll never look like text on a Mac). I'd say forget that for sure - that belongs in the OS, not in an application.
PNG alpha channel - already in there, officially, per the IE team. w00t!, etc.
The installer runs the Malicious Software Removal Tool before installing IE7 - clever. Too bad they didn't think of that for SP2 for XP; I heard a lot of problems with SP2 were due to that kind of stuff infecting a machine. Let's hope this is a feature that stays around, and spreads to other MS software installs.
IE7 ACID 2 test screenshot - I just loaded it, and did this screenshot. Not even close, though that shouldn't be a surprise - MS has already said it wouldn't pass the test. FF doesn't pass it either, mind.
No - I just loaded a site with google ads and they showed up just fine. At least, for their regular text ads, not the rumoured upcoming graphics/flash ads. I don't know if those are even out yet, though.
Okay, first start it up, and you get a web site with a broken image and 'errors on page'. Nice.
Somewhat goofy interface, reminiscent of Opera. Oy. How do I turn off these cartoony buttons?
Built-in phishing protection = good
Okay, load the company's homepage:
Layout seems perfect.
Uhoh - dig the heavy main font; THAT ain't right. Something as basic as font weight is fucked up? Very bad. It looks like everything is bolded now.:( The fonts _look_ nice, though, unless they're italic, then they're hard to read. Definitely some font issues going on here.
It's also slower with the menu changing background colours. Probably because of debugging code in the beta. I hope.
Okay, quick check to see if IE6 is still on here...aaaannddd...of course not. Fuckers. Okay, let's check in Firefox, yep, what I thought. IE7 is messing up some of the menu's CSS effects - sometimes putting an underline under some of the items when it shouldn't. Still beta, so no biggie.
Okay, load company site 2:
More sophisticated layout, layout still fine. Good.
Okay, load company site 3:
Much more sophisticated layout, and front page layout looks fine, but visited link colour is wrong.
Built-in close-tab X on each tab, but only when focused on that tab. Better than default FF behaviour, but they should take a look at Tab Mix Plus extension features.
Okay, let's check the Options!
Popup blocker defaults to off? Bleh.
Prompt to save passwords on forms defaults to off? Bleh.
AHA - font problem solved - installing IE7 turns on ClearType: MONDO STUPID. Turn of ClearType, restart, fonts are back to normal. Whew.
Okay, so, it seems to load Slashdot well enough.
It remembers many IE6 settings, but others (like preferred fonts) it does not. Not a biggie for a beta.
So, all in all, not bad for the first public beta.
It's merely that Firefox is so fantabulous that the computer just can't let it go. Get with the fanboy program, dude, you're slacking, and not in a good Slackware kind of way!
Slashdot Mirror
The acid test isn't really considered a good test for complience, which is why the IE team doesn't care too much about it. It uses malformed CSS and doesn't really test the important parts of CSS.
:)
Yeah, I'm sure that's the reason why.
The Vista fonts may be great (I'd like to see them), but IE7 (or ANY _application_) turning on ClearType (espeically with no warning!) is a seriously bad idea.
I wish MS would release the Vista fonts ahead of Vista. *shrug*
Interesting. Okay, IE7 shows those graphical ones, as well.
Uh, your Apple IIe didn't have an LCD monitor, and the resolution (280x192 for maybe a 12" screen) was shocking.
//e's resolution. :)
True, it wasn't LCD (obviously), but it's CRT did have subpixels. Same effect, really.
I love your use of the term 'shocking' regarding the Apple
You really don't notice any colour around the text, until you use xmag or something to blow it up.
I'm wondering if that's true only for black & white text? I'd like to see some ClearType on a coloured background or with coloured text sometime.
I've tried the Opera 9 beta, and it's now 'somewhat' goofy, which is what I said, not 'terrible.' Big difference between 'somewhat goofy' and 'terrible,' though hopefully English isn't your native language. :)
If I could turn some of that stuff off in IE7's interface, that'd be just fine; it's very Win XPish for my taste.
Ok considering that most people use lcds turning clear type on is actully a great idea. Plus there is an option to turn it off so stop whining.
I wasn't aware that most people used LCDs - where do you get that information?
Whether it's true or not, an APPLICATION shouldn't be turning that on without warning; that should be an OS setting that an application should use.
I think ClearType on a CRT is a matter of personal preference. To my eye, it looks good for regular and bold text, but it makes everything kinda bolded (and bolded more bolded), which is not good for those of us who prefer light fonts. For italics, it's _really_ bad, as I learned today.
As for your guide, it would be helpful to know what you mean by a 'tiny' screen, and 'big' res. My work machine has a 17" CRT running at 1024x768, and I considered ClearType a failure on it.
But then again, I'm one of those people who are incredibly annoyed by dampening wires on aperture grille monitors. I'm amazed most people don't even notice them, or aren't bothered by them. They must be blind or somethin'...
Of course, cleartype is wicked ugly on LCDs as well...
//e, and the extra colours around the letters bugged me even back then. Hopefully the extra resolution of modern computers will make it work better when I get around to buying an LCD. I'm still waiting for better black rendition. I'll probably wind up getting a SED monitor before a decent LCD is available.
I figured it would be; I remember ClearType back on my Apple
SP2 Came out in August of 04, the MSRT didn't come out until January 05. I suspect they will use it, when SP3 eventually comes out.
Good point, but MS should've had anti-adware and anti-virus stuff long ago.
Mine said "Popup Block" and the checkbox was unchecked. I'm assuming that means it defaults to off. *shrug*
I loaded IE7 and FF and IE7 used about 21meg empty, with FF using about 24meg empty. That's the only memory test I've yet done. It's not like FF is slim on the memory. I wouldn't mind that so much about FF if they would make the UI multithreaded; it's absolutely ridiculous to have such a program have a single threaded UI in this day. Bleh. Does anyone know if FF 2 will have a multithreaded UI? I keep hearing about it for new versions, but it never seems to show up.
Is there a stand alone version? How are people ment to test their site in IE6 and IE7 if there's no stand alone version of IE7?
:)
You're not too familiar with this "Microsoft," are you?
Subpixels do not exist on CRT monitors, FYI.
enabling Cleartype is actually a very good idea.
:)
Only if it's on an LCD; if it's a CRT, then it's a matter of opinion as to whether it's a good thing. For me, it is not, but I have a very discerning eye. Regular text is more readable (thought it's also bigger, which I consider a major design flaw in ClearType), but italicized text is unbearable, based on my own experience.
I'd love to see ClearType on an LCD, but I'll likely be running a Mac long before I have the money for a decent LCD anyway, so it won't make a difference.
C'mon Intel Mac mini - hurry up already!
It's not a matter of getting the IE7 beta installer AFTER the WGA challenge; it's part of the _installer_ itself. I downloaded the installer before using WGA (my WinXP is legal).
Someone else here just posted instructions about using a hacked DLL; but I don't know if those instructions work; that's left as an exercise for the reader.
Quick question for you: does IE7 antialias text normally? Or is it a ClearType-only thing? I understand ClearType to be only for LCD panels. (Also, what do you hate about it? I've never used it myself.)
It IS only for LCD panels, though some people will tell you it also works on CRTs: not true. There are no subpixels on a CRT. If you have a discerning eye, you'll hate it on a CRT. What I don't like about what it does to text on a CRT: it makes everything look bold. It mostly looks better, even on a CRT, but only for normal or bolded text; italicized text looks _terrible_, and it very hard to read.
There's only two things I want from IE7 as a designer: antialiased fonts and PNG alpha channel support. I doubt I'll get either.
Well, there is a font setting in Windows to emulated antialiases fonts that works well enough (but it'll never look like text on a Mac). I'd say forget that for sure - that belongs in the OS, not in an application.
PNG alpha channel - already in there, officially, per the IE team. w00t!, etc.
Windows Update is different from the IE7 preview installer, FYI.
The installer runs the Malicious Software Removal Tool before installing IE7 - clever. Too bad they didn't think of that for SP2 for XP; I heard a lot of problems with SP2 were due to that kind of stuff infecting a machine. Let's hope this is a feature that stays around, and spreads to other MS software installs.
IE7 ACID 2 test screenshot - I just loaded it, and did this screenshot. Not even close, though that shouldn't be a surprise - MS has already said it wouldn't pass the test. FF doesn't pass it either, mind.
No - I just loaded a site with google ads and they showed up just fine. At least, for their regular text ads, not the rumoured upcoming graphics/flash ads. I don't know if those are even out yet, though.
You must do the 'Windows Genuine Advantage' thingy before it'll install.
Okay, first start it up, and you get a web site with a broken image and 'errors on page'. Nice.
:( The fonts _look_ nice, though, unless they're italic, then they're hard to read. Definitely some font issues going on here.
Somewhat goofy interface, reminiscent of Opera. Oy. How do I turn off these cartoony buttons?
Built-in phishing protection = good
Okay, load the company's homepage:
Layout seems perfect.
Uhoh - dig the heavy main font; THAT ain't right. Something as basic as font weight is fucked up? Very bad. It looks like everything is bolded now.
It's also slower with the menu changing background colours. Probably because of debugging code in the beta. I hope.
Okay, quick check to see if IE6 is still on here...aaaannddd...of course not. Fuckers. Okay, let's check in Firefox, yep, what I thought. IE7 is messing up some of the menu's CSS effects - sometimes putting an underline under some of the items when it shouldn't. Still beta, so no biggie.
Okay, load company site 2:
More sophisticated layout, layout still fine. Good.
Okay, load company site 3:
Much more sophisticated layout, and front page layout looks fine, but visited link colour is wrong.
Built-in close-tab X on each tab, but only when focused on that tab. Better than default FF behaviour, but they should take a look at Tab Mix Plus extension features.
Okay, let's check the Options!
Popup blocker defaults to off? Bleh.
Prompt to save passwords on forms defaults to off? Bleh.
AHA - font problem solved - installing IE7 turns on ClearType: MONDO STUPID. Turn of ClearType, restart, fonts are back to normal. Whew.
Okay, so, it seems to load Slashdot well enough.
It remembers many IE6 settings, but others (like preferred fonts) it does not. Not a biggie for a beta.
So, all in all, not bad for the first public beta.
Same ctrl-T to open new tab as in FF. Bueno.
It's merely that Firefox is so fantabulous that the computer just can't let it go. Get with the fanboy program, dude, you're slacking, and not in a good Slackware kind of way!
Dude - IE7 is so advanced, it is its own exploit! How's that for innovation?
With a brain like that, he'd wind up blowing all that money on the last can of anchovies in the world.