is now a part of Redhat... check it out at http://www.cygnus.com/cygwin/
Though it only Lists NT4 Sp3 as supported, it runs on 95/98/2k, and the mailing list is great for help. Usually lots of quick, accurate responses. It's come a long way since I first tried it...
Check pricewatch - you can find 4 port USB hubs for $16... for $18 you can get a colored one to match your iWhack... harldy $70... There are a number of printers that directly support USB - I wouldn't think a conversion there would save you all that much, since the USB link would still have to do all of the transfers at parallel speed, which is what your computer wants to avoid... I don't think I've ever even seen a kludge box of that nature 8^) Ethernet -> parallel cards with buffers or network printers with memory provide a nicer solution - one quick transfer. File and forget, so to speak. If the USB converter had some memory, then that would alleviate much of it, but it's not a very clean solution...
Two ports work well for most people... What someone needs to do is make a keyboard with a built in hub (maybe only one port) for the mouse (kinda Macstyle)... saves a port on the back of the box, after all. Just a thought... I'm sure there's one out there.........
The costs that I was figuring in were in the devices themselves (i.e. printer, mouse, keybd, etc). I can find USB mice for $15-20 (albeit not great ones - but an MS PS/2 mouse runs much more), and 4 port USB hubs for $16... the outboard devices can be real cheap. Just about every motherboard has USB support now, so it's really not a big deal that way. You could even calculate in that $7-50 savings for not buying an ethernet card, using yor model. The question is the ASICs in the peripheral, and how that price compares to a similar ethernet ASIC... which may be very prevalent, but are far more complicated with communications, and can be overkill for a lot of things.
>Ethernet will even allow you to run both 10 and 100 Mbps devices on thesame medium.
Yes, but not at the same time...you can choose one or the other for each connection. There are, of course, hubs and switches that convert the two so that your network can have both, but it's not quite the same thing.
I don't see why I'd want my mouse over (even a personal) ethernet (that's only connected to my computer). More latency is bad - I expect and demand immediate response from my pointing device... no slowdowns are acceptable. Network printers are quite common and have been for years, though not in a home setting. There are many outboard ethernet -> parallel converters, and the smarter printers have internal cards for them - a net printer with 32/64/128MB of ram is definitely the way to go, in terms of not sapping resources (parallel ports are aweful, USB better).
Mice need clocking and power, and you can't duplicate that over standard ethernet. An interesting idea, though.
USB is one big shared interrupt for all of your peripherals - so there's no need for an extra network connection, and it should save at least one or two IRQs (serial and parallel - leaving one serial open).
As for the relative pricing, I'd say USB is a lower cost solution for most things - not much translating and address matching. Much less hardware. Very little protocol overhead (as opposed to a LAN). Stands to reason the amount of hardware should reflect this.
>From an objective standpoint, what Slashdot does to sites is no different than little script kiddies with packet machine guns.
But... the people hitting these site (supposedly) want the information there, which is why a page/site is up in the first place. the DDoS atackers generally don't read for content, I'm thinking 8^D
Um.... sounds like you don't have a clue what you are talking about, and you probably didn't read the article either. Go check out information about transaction processing, reliability, and mainframe I/O structure... then come back and apologize to all of the nice people you have offended with your total ignorance... Beowulf clusters are great for lots of things, but PCs have *terrible* I/O throughput. It's a Big Deal(TM) for lots of things, and I think you should read some more before you run your mouth off.
I fully agree with what you think are major releases, and I also don't really think that the Stampede code freeze qual'd as 'major'... once it is actually released, maybe... Like "1.0 released today", rather than ".90 coming Any Week Now(TM)"... Considering that you *need* a c lib to build Linux, I'd consider this pretty major... anything that you *need* to run (some people don't need X, but..) Linux/BSD/Foonix/BarSD 8^) Not like "I *need* pine, and version umdiddlysquat.whoosymawhatchis.whatchmacallit is out - YAY!", but legit components of the system.
My point was that even a 'minor' version increment for glibc is rather *major*... the previous updates were:
>The worst thing about Linux is that there are too many ways to do something, and everybody and his aunt feels free to reinvent the wheel in his own way.
The best thing about Linux is that everyone has the freedom to do things they way they see fit with whatever tools and methods they can find/usr/build... and everyone gets a chance to reinvent whatever they want, whether it be the wheel (though my box is on plastic feet), graphics APIs, or networking filesystems...
This is a Good Thing(TM) and while there should be consistent calls to the display subsystem (this is fairly standard) the toolkits, widgets and other stuff that you link in should be very flexible. As for inter-WM communication, there are moves toward standards there, and really, most KDE apps run in Gnome, and vice-versa (aside from the desktop management tools, which no longer apply anyway)...
1) People complaining that announcements should be on Freshmeat, leave them there... 2) People complaining about those people, saying that 99% of the stuff on Freshmeat doesn't apply to them, but major releases like libc, XFree, Kernels, do, so keep listing it here... 3) People complaining about troll moderation for #1 4) More complaining that we should have a new section for these sorts of things... 5) People complaining that this isn't new... 6) People complaining about all of the complaints 8^) and soon... 7) People complaining about me 8^)
I maintain that kernel releases, major X announcements, and other key components (GCC, Glibc, etc) should be announced on/. , since that certainly falls in the news for nerds that should be widely spoken... I also have problems with the amount of 'no good for anything I do' programs on freshmeat, though I'm very happy that a resource like that is there... but I won't check it every day... or even every week, since most of it just doesn't apply... Major announcements should be done on/. Maybe they should be a section that you can opt out of, but by default, they should be shown.
Even though this is a x.x.1 increase, it *has* been quite some time, and *is* a fairly major step. If every day we got the libc-digest posted here, I'd start to worry, but if the last update was in September, and this interval is too often for you to handle it... (you're creative enough to figure out what I was thinking here, I'll bet)
That's odd... after I started using my trackball (Logitech Trackman Marble - no little wheel), I began Whomping-Ass-Dot-Com (sorry) in Quake. There's about a week or two or really painful frags as you get up to speed, but the control and speed that you get is great. I can turn corners faster and more accurately than before, and it makes a lot of things easier. There is that learning curve though. I don't use photoshop or similar programs a lot, but for general navigation, it really helps (plus my wrist doesn't get tired any more).
Other people I know have similarly gotten better at twitch games after switching to a trackball, but it's not an overnight thing.
hmmm... I don't remember the conversion factor between the two octane ratings, but I'm guessing that 'super unleaded' is probably ~92/3 in the system I'm used to... that runs over $2/gal here... I use regular/mid-grade in my car (no benefit from anything over 89).
I figured the prices over there would go up, too - I was basing my estimate on my last trip to Spain, where the price was about US$.75-85/liter (or litre, I suppose) - giving a range of ~US$2.80 - 3.25 / USgal, allowing for some daily currency fluctuations...
My original post was somewhat in jest, since I've actually seen overseas prices, and realize that $1.20-1.50/gal isn't the end of the world that people here seem to think it is (it was nice below $1/gal, though).
We, of course, have to put up with people from the U.K. and Australia telling us that we spell color, liter, theater, etc. incorrectly. That and we have to deal with those pesky non-power of ten divisible units. Bah! Everything is so much easier in binary/hex anyway...
$2.50/gal - yikes! I thought it was getting bad here ($1.50-1.60)...
It's almost like Europe now...
Re: Beatniks, Capt. Kirk, and DeCSS
on
A New DeCSS
·
· Score: 2
I know it was meant to be bad, but there's bad and funny (i.e. Mel Brooks films) and then there's just bad (Shatner).
I guess he just rubs a nerve the wrong way.
What next... "People try to put me down... just because I get around... and all because if Priceline dot com, yeah... saying I just got a great deal (blah blah blah)... What is it, Spock? Extra airline miles for each transporter trip, and all on priceline dot com. Isn't it great how I get paid for having no noticable acting talent? All beacuse of priceline dot com... yeah. Thank you."
Re: Beatniks, Capt. Kirk, and DeCSS
on
A New DeCSS
·
· Score: 2
>as long as William Shatner doesn't mention anything about Priceline dot com at the end of the code;)
God I hate those commercials... not only does he butcher the original song (whichever one it happens to be), he's even more stiff and useless than when he was doing Trek...
Hmmm, a valid reply (albeit short and not all that interesting) to a comment marked "insightful" got marked down as "offtopic". Huh? Kamelion@home asks a question (somewhat rhetorically, I suppose), and yoyoboy replys with a response, not even mentioning grits, Natalie, Meept, or DK (unlike this post, now)...
Why are people *wasting* moderation points on something like this. There are good things to be marked up and dumb things to be marked down, but it doesn't seem as if this really deserves attention.
Use your moderation points for good, not stupidity...
>I still think that you are painting the world darker than it needs to be
Yes... it was a tough morning 8^) Several semi-related issues were creeping in on this thinking, too.
I completely agree with much of this - again, the whole topic of discussion here (way back when) was drifting toward why linux (as a tool or whatever) needs to be lowered to the mass market level of competency (ala AOL). The salient point is that if you don't need a tool, don't use it - if you do need it, learn about it, don't bitch about it. My personal gripe is with people who think Linux is perfect for everyone everywhere (though it works fine for the majority of things *I* need), and the people who keep complaining that Linux can't ever be an effective desktop OS until they do this, this and this, and it will be ruined by (blah blah blah). Extremists bother me - people who don't weigh both sides... (of course I did this in my earlier post, to some extent). Nothing is right for everyone, and people have to realize that there are often many solutions to a problem, some are better than others to some people, and others are better than some to some people.
>While you're at it, why don't you quit eating hamburgers, since you can't handle buying a ranch, raising/slaughtering cattle, then preparing the beef.
I'll just carve what I want and ride the rest home... 8^)
The idea is that you need to responsibly learn to properly use a hammer, and the same with a computer. "Oh, a lathe is too dangerous to use!" is only valid if you don't learn about the tool and how to safely use it. The same with a computer. Learn, live, love. You should learn to use any tool properly and respect its abilities and limitations.
>TWACK! goes the Elitest Clue Stick. Shouldn't that be "THWACK!" ? 8^)
>You failed to mention that real-time feedback is something users (humans) are inherently good at, in fact, most life is. As a matter of fact, real-time feedback is how the real world operates, so why shouldn't a computer?
Yes they are. Word processing, freecell... these are not real-time scenarios, any more than they are with a pencil and paper or a deck of cards.
>Danger aside, we are talking about a large population of people who are fairly intelligent, receptive and aggreable people. The fact of the matter is that they don't have the time, money or desire to change their computer habits when what they have works more or less well for their needs.
Yes, but most (fairly intelligent) people don't realize how easy, and how little time it takes to learn things. Of course the definition of fairly intelligent varies from person to person (I'd say anybody w/ IQ >120/130, just a rought estimate). What people also don't often realize is that a couple of hours of learning now will save you many hours of time and frustration later. I'm not opposing any specific program, OS, or brand of computer here, just suggesting that people take a little time and responsibility to figure out what really is right for them. Linux doesn't have to take over the desktop, and I've never really advocated it for everyone. I'm suggesting people learn *a* tool.
Like I said, if you whine about learning to use an iMac, maybe computers aren't for you, but maybe all you need is a little change of thought and attack. You don't need to learn anything, but don't complain to others if you aren't willing to try to learn things for yourself.
I spoke in some anger and didn't fully explain myself... Responsibilty, not elimination of users is the idea... live and learn.
I'm not asking for people to stop using things (though my anger was certainly showing through...) - I'm suggesting people take some responsibility. Like drivers ed, and other training programs a computer is a tool that needs only basic instruction to use. Most people aren't willing to do that themselves or even take a simple course. While I'd rather buy a book than take a course on a program, either way leads to the learning necessary to become proficient.
People don't have to learn *why* a computer works, but they should be willing to learn *how* to use it. This applies to Windows/Mac as much as my "unixy corner of the world"... I interact often with the so called "unwashed masses" that you speak of, though I have never thought of them as such.
I reserve things for "competant users", but it really doesn't take much for someone to reach that level... just a little initiative and motivation. Just like the rest of life.
Hmmm.... my 300/450 difference is pretty apparent running netscape, Eudora, booting (much quicker into NT, 98 or Linux), and way faster in games, compiles, and a lot of othre things (the Gimp).
But isn't the point of running Linux (or any OS, for that matter) having something that can do *your* tasks reliably, and with ease of effort? There are many improvements going into just about every OS now, and we should be thankful that there is some competition to provoke more of this. The point about some company setting a deadline is bogus, and shows a lack of understanding on the author's part, though he does make several valid arguments in other areas. What I think he doesn't understand is people, their attitudes, perceptions, and capabilities.
Many of us here (on/.) would probably qualify in the upper ranges of intelligence. Most likely, the majority of the people here wwould rank highly on IQ tests and other standardized tests. We often take for granted the amount of work it may take us to learn something, and often assume that other people are at all motivated about learning. The author sees an opposite view of things, and doesn't concern himself with people's apathy toward learning, which is the real problem. People are lazy. That's all there is to it. They act scared of technology because they don't want to take the time to learn about it. I've met people who find AOL too complicaed, and some of these people are fairly smart people, who earn good grades. They just aren't willing to explore and learn. "I didn't want to try to turn that paperclip guy off because I thought I would break something." is a bad attitude to take. Likening computer usage to other everyday tasks: "I was afraid to use Broil on the oven because I've only used Bake before... I know that's what it says in the recipe, but what if it doesn't work" or "I didn't want to adjust my rearview mirror/seat position beacuse my turn signal might not work anymore".
Computers are like books - you need to look at them, open them up (either literally or figuratively - maybe both), and get involved in them. Learn the ideas, get to know it.
Dive in, learn. Whether it's a Mac, Windows box, Linux box, pinball machine, or whatever - take a few minutes to learn about what you are using. You will be happier with yourself (conquered another hurdle), ease your everyday life, and end up learning more about more things than you ever thought possible.
My significant other had very little computer experience before we met, but she was more than willing to learn. Her friend had used computers for over three years before, but was 'afraid' of her computer enough to only use freecell and a word processor. Result? 2 years later, My S.O. is finishing her (non-computer related) degree, and has taken the time to explore things like QBasic, Macros in Word/Excel, and isn't scared when she sits in front of KDE or Gnome. She may not be efficient, but she pokes around and learns what she needs to know and asks questions with the aim of not having to ask that again. Her friend still knows how to type a paper, maybe make some of the text bold, or change a font, and asks the same questions all the time with no intention of trying to learn anything. The difference is apparent - attitude toward learning.
The choice is up to you. Find the tool that makes your life easier, and learn to use it. If a CLI is too tough for people to learn (and I suggest that it is not), then people will use the graphical login managers. Linux grows and improves via the people who use it, so it will not immediately add all sorts of neat little things that many consider "needless eye candy", unless someone really thinks that it is worth *their* time to do it. Use Windows or a Mac if you like - I will use whatever platform suits my needs for the task at hand. I am not afraid of knowledge.
Slashdot Mirror
dd if=/dev/random bs=MAX noerror | another_katz_post.pl; echo
"What do you think?"
that look about right? It's not in python, but just as effective...
is now a part of Redhat... check it out at
http://www.cygnus.com/cygwin/
Though it only Lists NT4 Sp3 as supported, it runs on 95/98/2k, and the mailing list is great for help. Usually lots of quick, accurate responses. It's come a long way since I first tried it...
A Good Thing(TM)
Check pricewatch - you can find 4 port USB hubs for $16... for $18 you can get a colored one to match your iWhack... harldy $70... There are a number of printers that directly support USB - I wouldn't think a conversion there would save you all that much, since the USB link would still have to do all of the transfers at parallel speed, which is what your computer wants to avoid... I don't think I've ever even seen a kludge box of that nature 8^) Ethernet -> parallel cards with buffers or network printers with memory provide a nicer solution - one quick transfer. File and forget, so to speak. If the USB converter had some memory, then that would alleviate much of it, but it's not a very clean solution...
Two ports work well for most people... What someone needs to do is make a keyboard with a built in hub (maybe only one port) for the mouse (kinda Macstyle)... saves a port on the back of the box, after all. Just a thought... I'm sure there's one out there.........
The costs that I was figuring in were in the devices themselves (i.e. printer, mouse, keybd, etc). I can find USB mice for $15-20 (albeit not great ones - but an MS PS/2 mouse runs much more), and 4 port USB hubs for $16... the outboard devices can be real cheap. Just about every motherboard has USB support now, so it's really not a big deal that way. You could even calculate in that $7-50 savings for not buying an ethernet card, using yor model. The question is the ASICs in the peripheral, and how that price compares to a similar ethernet ASIC... which may be very prevalent, but are far more complicated with communications, and can be overkill for a lot of things.
>Ethernet will even allow you to run both 10 and 100 Mbps devices on thesame medium.
Yes, but not at the same time...you can choose one or the other for each connection. There are, of course, hubs and switches that convert the two so that your network can have both, but it's not quite the same thing.
I don't see why I'd want my mouse over (even a personal) ethernet (that's only connected to my computer). More latency is bad - I expect and demand immediate response from my pointing device... no slowdowns are acceptable. Network printers are quite common and have been for years, though not in a home setting. There are many outboard ethernet -> parallel converters, and the smarter printers have internal cards for them - a net printer with 32/64/128MB of ram is definitely the way to go, in terms of not sapping resources (parallel ports are aweful, USB better).
Mice need clocking and power, and you can't duplicate that over standard ethernet. An interesting idea, though.
USB is one big shared interrupt for all of your peripherals - so there's no need for an extra network connection, and it should save at least one or two IRQs (serial and parallel - leaving one serial open).
As for the relative pricing, I'd say USB is a lower cost solution for most things - not much translating and address matching. Much less hardware. Very little protocol overhead (as opposed to a LAN). Stands to reason the amount of hardware should reflect this.
>From an objective standpoint, what Slashdot does to sites is no different than little script kiddies with packet machine guns.
But... the people hitting these site (supposedly) want the information there, which is why a page/site is up in the first place. the DDoS atackers generally don't read for content, I'm thinking 8^D
It is a major PITA, though...
Um.... sounds like you don't have a clue what you are talking about, and you probably didn't read the article either. Go check out information about transaction processing, reliability, and mainframe I/O structure... then come back and apologize to all of the nice people you have offended with your total ignorance... Beowulf clusters are great for lots of things, but PCs have *terrible* I/O throughput. It's a Big Deal(TM) for lots of things, and I think you should read some more before you run your mouth off.
I got one of those mini-cds in that book. Nifty, cute... but it was a mostly just video interview with Tom C. Good stuff, but no full demo 8^)
Gotcha...
I fully agree with what you think are major releases, and I also don't really think that the Stampede code freeze qual'd as 'major'... once it is actually released, maybe... Like "1.0 released today", rather than ".90 coming Any Week Now(TM)"... Considering that you *need* a c lib to build Linux, I'd consider this pretty major... anything that you *need* to run (some people don't need X, but..) Linux/BSD/Foonix/BarSD 8^) Not like "I *need* pine, and version umdiddlysquat.whoosymawhatchis.whatchmacallit is out - YAY!", but legit components of the system.
My point was that even a 'minor' version increment for glibc is rather *major*... the previous updates were:
2.0.6 12/29/97
2.1.1 5/25/99
2.1.2 9/7/99
2.1.3 2/25/00
Not really an everyday sort of thing... I think it deserves a post here. That's all.
Minor is tougher to define, but I think it's safe to say that it is anything that isn't 'major' 8^D
Or whatever...
>Nothingirritates more than having to remember that it is "Ctrl-F" to search in IE and "Alt-F" to search in Netscape.
Actually, Ctrl-F works in Win Netscraper, but Linux/AIX/*nix Netscrape uses Alt-F...
>The worst thing about Linux is that there are too many ways to do something, and everybody and his aunt feels free to reinvent the wheel in his own way.
The best thing about Linux is that everyone has the freedom to do things they way they see fit with whatever tools and methods they can find/usr/build... and everyone gets a chance to reinvent whatever they want, whether it be the wheel (though my box is on plastic feet), graphics APIs, or networking filesystems...
This is a Good Thing(TM) and while there should be consistent calls to the display subsystem (this is fairly standard) the toolkits, widgets and other stuff that you link in should be very flexible. As for inter-WM communication, there are moves toward standards there, and really, most KDE apps run in Gnome, and vice-versa (aside from the desktop management tools, which no longer apply anyway)...
It's a good, free world, take advantage of it.
1) People complaining that announcements should be on Freshmeat, leave them there...
/. , since that certainly falls in the news for nerds that should be widely spoken... I also have problems with the amount of 'no good for anything I do' programs on freshmeat, though I'm very happy that a resource like that is there... but I won't check it every day... or even every week, since most of it just doesn't apply... /. Maybe they should be a section that you can opt out of, but by default, they should be shown.
2) People complaining about those people, saying that 99% of the stuff on Freshmeat doesn't apply to them, but major releases like libc, XFree, Kernels, do, so keep listing it here...
3) People complaining about troll moderation for #1
4) More complaining that we should have a new section for these sorts of things...
5) People complaining that this isn't new...
6) People complaining about all of the complaints 8^)
and soon...
7) People complaining about me 8^)
I maintain that kernel releases, major X announcements, and other key components (GCC, Glibc, etc) should be announced on
Major announcements should be done on
Even though this is a x.x.1 increase, it *has* been quite some time, and *is* a fairly major step. If every day we got the libc-digest posted here, I'd start to worry, but if the last update was in September, and this interval is too often for you to handle it... (you're creative enough to figure out what I was thinking here, I'll bet)
That's odd... after I started using my trackball (Logitech Trackman Marble - no little wheel), I began Whomping-Ass-Dot-Com (sorry) in Quake. There's about a week or two or really painful frags as you get up to speed, but the control and speed that you get is great. I can turn corners faster and more accurately than before, and it makes a lot of things easier. There is that learning curve though. I don't use photoshop or similar programs a lot, but for general navigation, it really helps (plus my wrist doesn't get tired any more).
Other people I know have similarly gotten better at twitch games after switching to a trackball, but it's not an overnight thing.
hmmm... I don't remember the conversion factor between the two octane ratings, but I'm guessing that 'super unleaded' is probably ~92/3 in the system I'm used to... that runs over $2/gal here... I use regular/mid-grade in my car (no benefit from anything over 89).
I figured the prices over there would go up, too - I was basing my estimate on my last trip to Spain, where the price was about US$.75-85/liter (or litre, I suppose) - giving a range of ~US$2.80 - 3.25 / USgal, allowing for some daily currency fluctuations...
My original post was somewhat in jest, since I've actually seen overseas prices, and realize that $1.20-1.50/gal isn't the end of the world that people here seem to think it is (it was nice below $1/gal, though).
We, of course, have to put up with people from the U.K. and Australia telling us that we spell color, liter, theater, etc. incorrectly. That and we have to deal with those pesky non-power of ten divisible units. Bah! Everything is so much easier in binary/hex anyway...
$2.50/gal - yikes! I thought it was getting bad here ($1.50-1.60)...
It's almost like Europe now...
I know it was meant to be bad, but there's bad and funny (i.e. Mel Brooks films) and then there's just bad (Shatner).
I guess he just rubs a nerve the wrong way.
What next...
"People try to put me down...
just because I get around...
and all because if Priceline dot com, yeah...
saying I just got a great deal (blah blah blah)...
What is it, Spock?
Extra airline miles for each transporter trip, and all on priceline dot com.
Isn't it great how I get paid for having no noticable acting talent? All beacuse of priceline dot com... yeah.
Thank you."
>as long as William Shatner doesn't mention anything about Priceline dot com at the end of the code ;)
God I hate those commercials... not only does he butcher the original song (whichever one it happens to be), he's even more stiff and useless than when he was doing Trek...
Hmmm, a valid reply (albeit short and not all that interesting) to a comment marked "insightful" got marked down as "offtopic". Huh? Kamelion@home asks a question (somewhat rhetorically, I suppose), and yoyoboy replys with a response, not even mentioning grits, Natalie, Meept, or DK (unlike this post, now)...
Why are people *wasting* moderation points on something like this. There are good things to be marked up and dumb things to be marked down, but it doesn't seem as if this really deserves attention.
Use your moderation points for good, not stupidity...
and if you actually printed them out (aside from the bulk and the cost of the paper/toner) that would be one hell of a flipbook...
Or even better - really neat wallpaper!
>I still think that you are painting the world darker than it needs to be
Yes... it was a tough morning 8^) Several semi-related issues were creeping in on this thinking, too.
I completely agree with much of this - again, the whole topic of discussion here (way back when) was drifting toward why linux (as a tool or whatever) needs to be lowered to the mass market level of competency (ala AOL). The salient point is that if you don't need a tool, don't use it - if you do need it, learn about it, don't bitch about it. My personal gripe is with people who think Linux is perfect for everyone everywhere (though it works fine for the majority of things *I* need), and the people who keep complaining that Linux can't ever be an effective desktop OS until they do this, this and this, and it will be ruined by (blah blah blah). Extremists bother me - people who don't weigh both sides... (of course I did this in my earlier post, to some extent). Nothing is right for everyone, and people have to realize that there are often many solutions to a problem, some are better than others to some people, and others are better than some to some people.
>While you're at it, why don't you quit eating hamburgers, since you can't handle buying a ranch, raising/slaughtering cattle, then preparing the beef.
I'll just carve what I want and ride the rest home... 8^)
The idea is that you need to responsibly learn to properly use a hammer, and the same with a computer. "Oh, a lathe is too dangerous to use!" is only valid if you don't learn about the tool and how to safely use it. The same with a computer. Learn, live, love. You should learn to use any tool properly and respect its abilities and limitations.
>TWACK! goes the Elitest Clue Stick.
Shouldn't that be "THWACK!" ? 8^)
>You failed to mention that real-time feedback is something users (humans) are inherently good at, in fact, most life is. As a matter of fact, real-time feedback is how the real world operates, so why shouldn't a computer?
Yes they are. Word processing, freecell... these are not real-time scenarios, any more than they are with a pencil and paper or a deck of cards.
>Danger aside, we are talking about a large population of people who are fairly intelligent, receptive and aggreable people. The fact of the matter is that they don't have the time, money or desire to change their computer habits when what they have works more or less well for their needs.
Yes, but most (fairly intelligent) people don't realize how easy, and how little time it takes to learn things. Of course the definition of fairly intelligent varies from person to person (I'd say anybody w/ IQ >120/130, just a rought estimate). What people also don't often realize is that a couple of hours of learning now will save you many hours of time and frustration later. I'm not opposing any specific program, OS, or brand of computer here, just suggesting that people take a little time and responsibility to figure out what really is right for them. Linux doesn't have to take over the desktop, and I've never really advocated it for everyone. I'm suggesting people learn *a* tool.
Like I said, if you whine about learning to use an iMac, maybe computers aren't for you, but maybe all you need is a little change of thought and attack. You don't need to learn anything, but don't complain to others if you aren't willing to try to learn things for yourself.
I spoke in some anger and didn't fully explain myself... Responsibilty, not elimination of users is the idea... live and learn.
I'm not asking for people to stop using things (though my anger was certainly showing through...) - I'm suggesting people take some responsibility. Like drivers ed, and other training programs a computer is a tool that needs only basic instruction to use. Most people aren't willing to do that themselves or even take a simple course. While I'd rather buy a book than take a course on a program, either way leads to the learning necessary to become proficient.
People don't have to learn *why* a computer works, but they should be willing to learn *how* to use it. This applies to Windows/Mac as much as my "unixy corner of the world"... I interact often with the so called "unwashed masses" that you speak of, though I have never thought of them as such.
I reserve things for "competant users", but it really doesn't take much for someone to reach that level... just a little initiative and motivation. Just like the rest of life.
Hmmm.... my 300/450 difference is pretty apparent running netscape, Eudora, booting (much quicker into NT, 98 or Linux), and way faster in games, compiles, and a lot of othre things (the Gimp).
Menus feel a lot faster too - everything does...
But isn't the point of running Linux (or any OS, for that matter) having something that can do *your* tasks reliably, and with ease of effort? There are many improvements going into just about every OS now, and we should be thankful that there is some competition to provoke more of this. The point about some company setting a deadline is bogus, and shows a lack of understanding on the author's part, though he does make several valid arguments in other areas. What I think he doesn't understand is people, their attitudes, perceptions, and capabilities.
/.) would probably qualify in the upper ranges of intelligence. Most likely, the majority of the people here wwould rank highly on IQ tests and other standardized tests. We often take for granted the amount of work it may take us to learn something, and often assume that other people are at all motivated about learning. The author sees an opposite view of things, and doesn't concern himself with people's apathy toward learning, which is the real problem. People are lazy. That's all there is to it. They act scared of technology because they don't want to take the time to learn about it. I've met people who find AOL too complicaed, and some of these people are fairly smart people, who earn good grades. They just aren't willing to explore and learn. "I didn't want to try to turn that paperclip guy off because I thought I would break something." is a bad attitude to take. Likening computer usage to other everyday tasks: "I was afraid to use Broil on the oven because I've only used Bake before... I know that's what it says in the recipe, but what if it doesn't work" or "I didn't want to adjust my rearview mirror/seat position beacuse my turn signal might not work anymore".
Many of us here (on
Computers are like books - you need to look at them, open them up (either literally or figuratively - maybe both), and get involved in them. Learn the ideas, get to know it.
Dive in, learn. Whether it's a Mac, Windows box, Linux box, pinball machine, or whatever - take a few minutes to learn about what you are using. You will be happier with yourself (conquered another hurdle), ease your everyday life, and end up learning more about more things than you ever thought possible.
My significant other had very little computer experience before we met, but she was more than willing to learn. Her friend had used computers for over three years before, but was 'afraid' of her computer enough to only use freecell and a word processor. Result? 2 years later, My S.O. is finishing her (non-computer related) degree, and has taken the time to explore things like QBasic, Macros in Word/Excel, and isn't scared when she sits in front of KDE or Gnome. She may not be efficient, but she pokes around and learns what she needs to know and asks questions with the aim of not having to ask that again. Her friend still knows how to type a paper, maybe make some of the text bold, or change a font, and asks the same questions all the time with no intention of trying to learn anything. The difference is apparent - attitude toward learning.
The choice is up to you. Find the tool that makes your life easier, and learn to use it. If a CLI is too tough for people to learn (and I suggest that it is not), then people will use the graphical login managers. Linux grows and improves via the people who use it, so it will not immediately add all sorts of neat little things that many consider "needless eye candy", unless someone really thinks that it is worth *their* time to do it. Use Windows or a Mac if you like - I will use whatever platform suits my needs for the task at hand. I am not afraid of knowledge.