People who can't handle AOL, an iMac, or Winxx with MSWord/WordPerfect have no buisness using computers until they fix their attitudes. It's the same as many other situations. I don't try to fly a helicopter or a plane without learning about it, so I stick to my car. If a car is 'tough to drive', then you have no buisness being on the road (there are LOTS of these people), so stick to shoes.
If people can't take responsibility for their own actions, and aren't willing to learn ("I'm afraid, it's a computer!") then they should get an attitude adjustment or stop whining. A car is far more complicated (and requires real-time feedback from the user, unlike a computer), yet most people are comfortable with that technology... why? They have either grown up with it, so it doesn't seem strange, and they are willing to take a risk (ever driven on the NJ Turnpike? Far more dangerous than trying to get a dual NT/Linux set-up working).
Kinda tough to 'force' people worldwide to get cracking on a problem you have that no one else cares about... they can hire people or contract out the work - like you said, open-source...
Yes... but win3.1/95 would invariably go down after a while... 1.2.13 may not have had the software support at the time, but it was really stable.
I think that comparing NT to Linux in this test should be considered fair if they were asked to perform the same tasks over the testing span. Both are touted as web/file/print servers, so the comparison would be vaild...
I checked install everything on Mandake, and it left me happy - sorry you didn't have the same experience.
In terms of major distros: I can't remember what I used around kernel 1.0.x I used slackware starting in the early 1.2.13 days (pretty nice, especially for the time) Redhat led me into the 2.0.x days, after I had compared Slack and Redhat... then I started using Mandrake this past summer, and I was really impressed by some of the ups (and dissapointed by the downs of course). Haven't tried suse yet, though I've got the CD right here. Helped a couple people with Debian... but not a whole lot of personal use.
Mandrake kept me happy, and I was able to do all the devel work that I needed to do w/o any extra effort. I tend to remove most default rpms after I start using them to roll my own for the newer releases (apache, anything that uses CVS). RedHat and Mandrake both contributed to my dislike of rpms, and life goes on.
I wasn't trying to criticize you, or RedHat - again, just relating my experiences.
(BTW - no distro has a good *default* install yet. Even with the 'workstation' and 'server' presets that some offer. This includes any version of windows, too 8^)
as the average net-citizen, you should at least be concerned that the people running the attacks may be using your box or one that belongs to someone you know... which if for nothing else, should serve to raise awareness for everyone who has their box connected 24/7 via cable or DSL.
Maybe you don't care if your box is involved in taking out one of your favorite sites (Dammit, my.foobar.com is down again!), but I would think that you *should* care. Do you lock your car in a parking lot - chances are it'll be fine, but hey... why chance it. Same here.
>its mainly corporations that have the large bandwidth needed for a DoS attack of this size.
or 1 linux box on each cable modem segment around the country. That'll bring it down pretty quickly... or ISDN connected boxes. Distributed Compcracking at it's finest...
The same way - if I shoot you with a snurf gun, you shake it off - if a thousand people repeat fire their snurf guns at you, you'd be alot less effective at whatever you were trying to do...
If you are developing, wouldn't you go through and choose what packages you install in the first place, not use just a default install? That would seem to be more of a concern. Mandrake 6.0 gave me the symbols when I asked for them... I guess what they chose to put in each package differs slightly (and they should include those, you are right), but you should also look to make sure they are there.. whatever...
Gotcha. I see what you mean now. I've used switchdesk in Mandrake, and it Works For Me(tm), though I haven't used it in a while. I've added sessions in the KControl Panel for KDM, too... pretty easy. Never really saw a whole lot of need for the.Xclients myself, but it will vary from person to person (you could also tell it to execute that file, too). There are a lot of way to do what you are saying.
I never cared for RPM to start with, I just wanted to remove a pre-installed package, and install my own, newer version of it... it seemed convenient, but never really worked right on Redhat either... it just doesn't work at all on Mandake (without some aliasing).
I always recompile my kernel and modules anyway, and I've never done any definitive speed testing between stock kernels. There never seemed to be any real noticable difference between the speeds anyway.
Whatever works for you 8^) I'm happy wiht most of Mandrake, unhappy with some other points, but there are major problems with every major distro, and I have my ways around these, so I don't really notice them. I'm not trying to start any wars, just giving my experiences with things.
Hmmm... well, my install gave me gcc and make, and most other things, but I tend to look at what's going in there first...
>I know you can change this but then everybodies session would be gnome. This should be the case. You don't like the distro because of what it comes up with for a default (which you can change with a drop-down box)? I haven't noticed the problem you mention concerning the default session...Maybe I'm not hearing you clearly there - my box hasn't exhibited the behavior I think you are talking about.
From what I've used, I've been really happy with the GUI tools, but there are always going to be exceptions. I particularly don't like the fact that text-based rpm doesn't work right (for verify/remove especially) in Mandrake... but the graphical package managers do... so I'm back to tar.gz for everything. Life goes on.
If it isn't perfect, try to fix it. Though without installing make and gcc on your box, that'll be a trick 8^) (if that's in a default install, something is really broken - if you did it yourself, well.. [shrug]).
hmmm... didn't know that about OSS... too bad - that's not something that should happen (duh)... I've been using a standard module for sound (since I don't have the greatest of cards in there to start with). I'll have to look into that. Thanks for letting me know... now we just have to remind Mandrake - I know they released a slightly updated version of 7.0 recently witha few fixes... I don't know offhand if this was addressed in there.
--More breaking news from the internet front: Today, RedHat (RHAT), popular linux distributors and mega-crazy IPO company, was hit by a world-wide DoS attack. This attack differed from the typica SYN-flooding attacks, where attackers open numerous bogus connections to a server. The attack was characterized by a massize amount of so-called 'FTP' clients, attempting to retrieve data from the server. 'FTP' is a know program that has been in existance for a long time, and is widely known. "We knew about FTP, and we thought we could protect against this type of occurence, but apparently, the effects were heightened by the 'slashdot effect'", said an unnamed source from RedHat.
This is not the first time that a site has claimed to be 'slashdotted', and only one of many ever-increasing cases of this effect coupling with the always dangerous 'FTP'. Anonymous Coward comments, "yeah, d00dz - FTP can like, get stuff off of peoples hard disks and stuff. Ya know, like pictures of Natalie, and Don Knotts.. It r4vvkz!"
The DoJ is now working with NSA on ways to prevent the dreaded 'slashdot effect', and curb use of the 'FTP' programs that are so widely spread around the Internet. "It's a tough job, but somebody's gotta do it!" says Al Gore, self-proclaimed founder of the Internet, "We've been fighting these battles for years."
but I still like Madrake better. The extra config tools, and some of the other little tweaks are really nice. They released Mandrake 7.0 just a little while ago...
Hehe... d'oh. That's actually a rather poignant question. Kinda scary that life on/. has degraded to the point where an author can be considered a troll... I hadn't considered it this way before, but... huh... makes you stop and think for a minute (tough for me some days 8^)
It <I>does</I> provoke the predictable responses: "Wow, that's the most true thing I've ever read!" "Wow, that's the biggest load of crap I've ever read" "It's because he can figure things out" "It's because he's a total jerk with no talent" "Shut up, you!" "Go to Hell, you #@$&^@&*!!!" etc...
I must say that I have contributed (as have most here) to this effect - but in some sense, and even moderately controversial topic provokes this response... he is just more controversial than most articles (e.g. "nano-tech is cool" or "The new release of [whatever] is out!"). This is multiplied by the fact that the majority of tech-savvy people have strong opinions on just about any issue, and many people think they knlow everything and feel the need to share [guilty as charged, your honor].
If ZDNet had a better talkback/feedback section than they do, I'm sure that would be even more saturated with the mindless drivel there (and probably eventually Natalie and Don Knotts). In fact, wouldn't the NY Times have the same "problem" if the online version gave a nice, threaded reply mechanism like/.? I can just see things ater an op-ed political piece... they have them other places, and it isn't pretty... most of the traffic on Katz stories here seems to be due to the fact that is is actually 'authoring' a piece, and not just posting a submission of news. Opinion is always challenged, and challenged violently.
Do I care for his work: generally not. Do I think he trolls (not that you asked me): Not really. Do I think that he belongs on/. : Let's not go there 8^)
As has been posted on every Athlon thread since the beginning of time, the chip is ready for SMP, but the chipset isn't. The chipset for Athlon SMP is far more complicated (and higher performance) than that for the intel SMP structure. Check out the Alpha bus documentation for a little more flavor on this - its the same bus the Athlon uses, and the idea is to implement a crossbar switch rather than a shared bus. Cool, but costly.
>One: you're dead wrong about stability. Compare the two, and it's a wash; both are pretty good but both still have a way to go.
Yup, both are pretty good, but have some room for improvement... I have been running KDE on my AIX workstation for several months no with litle or no incident (knock on polymer desk surface). I haven't gotten Gnome running over here yet, so I can't compare the two on this platform, but at home on Linux I haven't had any problems with KDE, and very few with (the newer releases of) Gnome...
I think both are good features wise - they aim at a different user segment, it seems, but both are configurable to whatever you really want (Gnome may have the edge here).
>Better toolkit? Ever programmed in both of them? Unless you have, you have no right to compare.
hmmm... I have, and I can say that QT is (IMHO) a lot nicer than GTK... but (shrug) it all depends on what styles you like as a programer. I find the interface easier and more intuitive, and the end results of either one can be pretty much identical (as I duck from the flying flames).
All in all, I started using KDE before Gnome (back when both were really bad), and that may have skewed my views, but all that really matters is What Works For You(TM).
>AC, who probably contributed as much code to the current kernel as any other human.
Yup - a great choice 8^)
I think Donald Becker should have gotten a prize, too. How many people would be reading/. from a linux box without his network drivers. For that matter, how much more slowly would everthing have developed without the aid of ethernet access? Yes someone *would* have done it, eventually, but <i>he</> did it, and deserves many kudos (and I don't mean the candy bar - do they still exist?).
Alright, I'll give you that... they haven't been a factor in my area, and I wasn't looking at it in that light. Still, unless it was some really evil plot (it just looks like they were dumb), I don't see a need...
Yeah - the 'perfect' speaker cone/dome/panel is infinitly light and infinitly rigid. I have trouble picturing a flexible substance with that kind of rigidity(word?). The sound producing substance is not usally the magnetic part (paper/kevlar/aluminum), there's usually a coil of wire surrounding a magnet... the coil is attached to the non-magnetic substance, which then moves and produces the sounds...
I agree, though... can a piece of plastic/sillicone really exhibit these characteristics (especially with flat response throughout the audible band)? It's hard to say... it just doesn't seem that the electric response would be the same over those frequencies...
yup, and since it has already been shot down (quite rightfully so), this doesn't seem to be all that newsworthy... In other news, Commander Taco applied for a Trademark on "Taco"... after he was laughed out of the room, he then looked it up and realized that it had been in use for years.
I just hope we don't see every rejected tech patent/trademark. This *was* exceptional stupidity, but it was thwarted quite quickly.
Snooze 8^) (I'm in a pretty lousy mood for a Friday, huh?)
Slashdot Mirror
People who can't handle AOL, an iMac, or Winxx with MSWord/WordPerfect have no buisness using computers until they fix their attitudes. It's the same as many other situations. I don't try to fly a helicopter or a plane without learning about it, so I stick to my car. If a car is 'tough to drive', then you have no buisness being on the road (there are LOTS of these people), so stick to shoes.
If people can't take responsibility for their own actions, and aren't willing to learn ("I'm afraid, it's a computer!") then they should get an attitude adjustment or stop whining. A car is far more complicated (and requires real-time feedback from the user, unlike a computer), yet most people are comfortable with that technology... why? They have either grown up with it, so it doesn't seem strange, and they are willing to take a risk (ever driven on the NJ Turnpike? Far more dangerous than trying to get a dual NT/Linux set-up working).
This may sound elitest, but hey - it's the truth.
Kinda tough to 'force' people worldwide to get cracking on a problem you have that no one else cares about... they can hire people or contract out the work - like you said, open-source...
Yes... but win3.1/95 would invariably go down after a while... 1.2.13 may not have had the software support at the time, but it was really stable.
I think that comparing NT to Linux in this test should be considered fair if they were asked to perform the same tasks over the testing span. Both are touted as web/file/print servers, so the comparison would be vaild...
They are pretty heavy-duty cases - none of those $18 ATX jobs... Not exactly 2" plate steel, either 8^)
I believe you 8^)
I checked install everything on Mandake, and it left me happy - sorry you didn't have the same experience.
In terms of major distros:
I can't remember what I used around kernel 1.0.x
I used slackware starting in the early 1.2.13 days (pretty nice, especially for the time)
Redhat led me into the 2.0.x days, after I had compared Slack and Redhat... then I started using Mandrake this past summer, and I was really impressed by some of the ups (and dissapointed by the downs of course). Haven't tried suse yet, though I've got the CD right here. Helped a couple people with Debian... but not a whole lot of personal use.
Mandrake kept me happy, and I was able to do all the devel work that I needed to do w/o any extra effort. I tend to remove most default rpms after I start using them to roll my own for the newer releases (apache, anything that uses CVS). RedHat and Mandrake both contributed to my dislike of rpms, and life goes on.
I wasn't trying to criticize you, or RedHat - again, just relating my experiences.
(BTW - no distro has a good *default* install yet. Even with the 'workstation' and 'server' presets that some offer. This includes any version of windows, too 8^)
Lee-nooks
at least, that's more or less how Linus pronounces it... which is the only thing that really counts...
as the average net-citizen, you should at least be concerned that the people running the attacks may be using your box or one that belongs to someone you know... which if for nothing else, should serve to raise awareness for everyone who has their box connected 24/7 via cable or DSL.
Maybe you don't care if your box is involved in taking out one of your favorite sites (Dammit, my.foobar.com is down again!), but I would think that you *should* care. Do you lock your car in a parking lot - chances are it'll be fine, but hey... why chance it. Same here.
>its mainly corporations that have the large bandwidth needed for a DoS attack of this size.
or 1 linux box on each cable modem segment around the country. That'll bring it down pretty quickly... or ISDN connected boxes. Distributed Compcracking at it's finest...
The same way - if I shoot you with a snurf gun, you shake it off - if a thousand people repeat fire their snurf guns at you, you'd be alot less effective at whatever you were trying to do...
If you are developing, wouldn't you go through and choose what packages you install in the first place, not use just a default install? That would seem to be more of a concern. Mandrake 6.0 gave me the symbols when I asked for them... I guess what they chose to put in each package differs slightly (and they should include those, you are right), but you should also look to make sure they are there.. whatever...
Gotcha. I see what you mean now. I've used switchdesk in Mandrake, and it Works For Me(tm), though I haven't used it in a while. I've added sessions in the KControl Panel for KDM, too... pretty easy. Never really saw a whole lot of need for the .Xclients myself, but it will vary from person to person (you could also tell it to execute that file, too). There are a lot of way to do what you are saying.
I never cared for RPM to start with, I just wanted to remove a pre-installed package, and install my own, newer version of it... it seemed convenient, but never really worked right on Redhat either... it just doesn't work at all on Mandake (without some aliasing).
I always recompile my kernel and modules anyway, and I've never done any definitive speed testing between stock kernels. There never seemed to be any real noticable difference between the speeds anyway.
Whatever works for you 8^) I'm happy wiht most of Mandrake, unhappy with some other points, but there are major problems with every major distro, and I have my ways around these, so I don't really notice them. I'm not trying to start any wars, just giving my experiences with things.
Hmmm... well, my install gave me gcc and make, and most other things, but I tend to look at what's going in there first...
>I know you can change this but then everybodies session would be gnome. This should be the case.
You don't like the distro because of what it comes up with for a default (which you can change with a drop-down box)?
I haven't noticed the problem you mention concerning the default session...Maybe I'm not hearing you clearly there - my box hasn't exhibited the behavior I think you are talking about.
From what I've used, I've been really happy with the GUI tools, but there are always going to be exceptions. I particularly don't like the fact that text-based rpm doesn't work right (for verify/remove especially) in Mandrake... but the graphical package managers do... so I'm back to tar.gz for everything. Life goes on.
If it isn't perfect, try to fix it. Though without installing make and gcc on your box, that'll be a trick 8^) (if that's in a default install, something is really broken - if you did it yourself, well.. [shrug]).
hmmm... didn't know that about OSS... too bad - that's not something that should happen (duh)... I've been using a standard module for sound (since I don't have the greatest of cards in there to start with). I'll have to look into that. Thanks for letting me know... now we just have to remind Mandrake - I know they released a slightly updated version of 7.0 recently witha few fixes... I don't know offhand if this was addressed in there.
(sigh) It's !Bruce again... which wouldn't be so bad if he didn't sound like a lunatic every time... and oh yeah... make some sense
Time for Rob to finally do something about this. What a pain in the ass...
--More breaking news from the internet front: Today, RedHat (RHAT), popular linux distributors and mega-crazy IPO company, was hit by a world-wide DoS attack. This attack differed from the typica SYN-flooding attacks, where attackers open numerous bogus connections to a server. The attack was characterized by a massize amount of so-called 'FTP' clients, attempting to retrieve data from the server. 'FTP' is a know program that has been in existance for a long time, and is widely known. "We knew about FTP, and we thought we could protect against this type of occurence, but apparently, the effects were heightened by the 'slashdot effect'", said an unnamed source from RedHat.
This is not the first time that a site has claimed to be 'slashdotted', and only one of many ever-increasing cases of this effect coupling with the always dangerous 'FTP'. Anonymous Coward comments, "yeah, d00dz - FTP can like, get stuff off of peoples hard disks and stuff. Ya know, like pictures of Natalie, and Don Knotts.. It r4vvkz!"
The DoJ is now working with NSA on ways to prevent the dreaded 'slashdot effect', and curb use of the 'FTP' programs that are so widely spread around the Internet. "It's a tough job, but somebody's gotta do it!" says Al Gore, self-proclaimed founder of the Internet, "We've been fighting these battles for years."
In unrelated news...
but I still like Madrake better. The extra config tools, and some of the other little tweaks are really nice. They released Mandrake 7.0 just a little while ago...
check out www.linux-mandrake.org
Hehe... d'oh. That's actually a rather poignant question. Kinda scary that life on /. has degraded to the point where an author can be considered a troll... I hadn't considered it this way before, but... huh... makes you stop and think for a minute (tough for me some days 8^)
/.? I can just see things ater an op-ed political piece... they have them other places, and it isn't pretty... most of the traffic on Katz stories here seems to be due to the fact that is is actually 'authoring' a piece, and not just posting a submission of news. Opinion is always challenged, and challenged violently.
/. : Let's not go there 8^)
It <I>does</I> provoke the predictable responses:
"Wow, that's the most true thing I've ever read!"
"Wow, that's the biggest load of crap I've ever read"
"It's because he can figure things out"
"It's because he's a total jerk with no talent"
"Shut up, you!"
"Go to Hell, you #@$&^@&*!!!"
etc...
I must say that I have contributed (as have most here) to this effect - but in some sense, and even moderately controversial topic provokes this response... he is just more controversial than most articles (e.g. "nano-tech is cool" or "The new release of [whatever] is out!"). This is multiplied by the fact that the majority of tech-savvy people have strong opinions on just about any issue, and many people think they knlow everything and feel the need to share [guilty as charged, your honor].
If ZDNet had a better talkback/feedback section than they do, I'm sure that would be even more saturated with the mindless drivel there (and probably eventually Natalie and Don Knotts). In fact, wouldn't the NY Times have the same "problem" if the online version gave a nice, threaded reply mechanism like
Do I care for his work: generally not.
Do I think he trolls (not that you asked me): Not really.
Do I think that he belongs on
As has been posted on every Athlon thread since the beginning of time, the chip is ready for SMP, but the chipset isn't. The chipset for Athlon SMP is far more complicated (and higher performance) than that for the intel SMP structure. Check out the Alpha bus documentation for a little more flavor on this - its the same bus the Athlon uses, and the idea is to implement a crossbar switch rather than a shared bus. Cool, but costly.
ah yes, but what about 1600x1200? That's *real* gaming for ya 8^)
>One: you're dead wrong about stability. Compare the two, and it's a wash; both are pretty good but both still have a way to go.
Yup, both are pretty good, but have some room for improvement... I have been running KDE on my AIX workstation for several months no with litle or no incident (knock on polymer desk surface). I haven't gotten Gnome running over here yet, so I can't compare the two on this platform, but at home on Linux I haven't had any problems with KDE, and very few with (the newer releases of) Gnome...
I think both are good features wise - they aim at a different user segment, it seems, but both are configurable to whatever you really want (Gnome may have the edge here).
>Better toolkit? Ever programmed in both of them? Unless you have, you have no right to compare.
hmmm... I have, and I can say that QT is (IMHO) a lot nicer than GTK... but (shrug) it all depends on what styles you like as a programer. I find the interface easier and more intuitive, and the end results of either one can be pretty much identical (as I duck from the flying flames).
All in all, I started using KDE before Gnome (back when both were really bad), and that may have skewed my views, but all that really matters is What Works For You(TM).
ls has been pretty good to me 8^)
>AC, who probably contributed as much code to the current kernel as any other human.
/. from a linux box without his network drivers. For that matter, how much more slowly would everthing have developed without the aid of ethernet access? Yes someone *would* have done it, eventually, but <i>he</> did it, and deserves many kudos (and I don't mean the candy bar - do they still exist?).
Yup - a great choice 8^)
I think Donald Becker should have gotten a prize, too. How many people would be reading
There was also no mention of "paridigm shift"(with or without a clutch), or even "leverage"...
Alright, I'll give you that... they haven't been a factor in my area, and I wasn't looking at it in that light. Still, unless it was some really evil plot (it just looks like they were dumb), I don't see a need...
Yeah - the 'perfect' speaker cone/dome/panel is infinitly light and infinitly rigid. I have trouble picturing a flexible substance with that kind of rigidity(word?). The sound producing substance is not usally the magnetic part (paper/kevlar/aluminum), there's usually a coil of wire surrounding a magnet... the coil is attached to the non-magnetic substance, which then moves and produces the sounds...
I agree, though... can a piece of plastic/sillicone really exhibit these characteristics (especially with flat response throughout the audible band)? It's hard to say... it just doesn't seem that the electric response would be the same over those frequencies...
yup, and since it has already been shot down (quite rightfully so), this doesn't seem to be all that newsworthy...
In other news, Commander Taco applied for a Trademark on "Taco"... after he was laughed out of the room, he then looked it up and realized that it had been in use for years.
I just hope we don't see every rejected tech patent/trademark. This *was* exceptional stupidity, but it was thwarted quite quickly.
Snooze 8^) (I'm in a pretty lousy mood for a Friday, huh?)