On the topic of netscape.... i think the reason netscape crashes so often is the memory factor.. i run n/s 4.73 on a linux box w/ 32mb and ns 4.51 on a solaris box with 1024MB. The linux one seems to crash a lot more often. Then again this could be due the unstable nature of the libs n/s uses under linux
So does this mean that C# is going to be the next big thing ? From what you say.. Yes! Support ? Well with the biggest software company in the world behind them, You can be hell sure about the kind of support you get for C#. MSDN CDs filled with.chm files for C#. Hordes of MCSE's or whatever they're called 'graduating' from one training center after another armed with C# knowledge. Preformance ? Win200x Dll's tuned to give best response times/ higher priority to programs compiled with C# ( wierd but possible! ). A C# interpreter or some sort as part of the ntoskernel ? Tool Support ? MSDev has it all doesn't it ? No one will get fired for buying C# as well ( if they do, M$ will hire them!) Trained Staff ? See pt one. Well C# seems to possess all the qualities you stated, come to think of it so does VB. so why wasn't VB the next big thing ?
is not in terms of code-complexity but in terms of singularity of function. grep is used simply for searching thru text, wget might be a little more complex since it has to (in my network setup) [connect to proxy]->[send http request]->[recieve html] or [print error ( more likely!)]->[parse html]->[find links]->[follow them] etc. etc.. In any case, how would you handle something like this recursively ? Or rather, can you even do network connections in any functional programming language ?
Agree with you on this one. Functional programming languages require you to think in a recursive manner, which we are not able to do since our brains have limited stack space as well. Hell to imagine what would happed if our brains ran out of stack spaSTACK OVERFLOW. SYSTEM HALTED
The current Von Neumann archetecture and the stored program concept seems to favor jumping around in code and manipulating memory bits that forms the base for procedural program. all other paradigms as essentially emulated on this archetecture making them inherently inefficient due to the conversion/emulation overhead. Another reason is the inherent typeless nature of memory devices that introduces overhead whenever the type of a data needs to be checked or its 'implied' value ( as opposed to its binary value ) found. Maybe, if we had a memory system where the bits were also 'typed' it might favor another programming paradigm.
-u2 >> In case you think everything i said in my post is wrong... You might be right
I agree with about the development time for function programs being less due the absence of debugging. But isn't this true only for very small simple programs. Sure you can code a working Tower of Hanoi or n-Queens simulation in SML in no time ( that's what we did in college while learning SML ). But how long would it take you to 'abstract and kneed' an MS Word or Netscape or even a simple utility like grep or wget using SML ? I can't even imagine doing such event-driven or input-specific programs in a functional language ( but of course i code only in C/C++/Java/asm ) -u2
It probably cause you haven't turned on 'willing to moderate' in your user options. I did it last week and since then i've been getting to meta-moderate. I've been a user for only 7-8 months I'm user #37000-sthing.. what about you ?
I feel one of the main reason why functional programming languages are not being used quite often and extensively ( other than the fact that they are not being supported by big corporations unlike C++ (C# ?) and Java ) is the high level of abstraction that operate at. Procedural languages like C/C++ and Java conform to existing hardware and assembly programming concept by providing methodologies and keywords that can be directly mapped to assembly equivalents such as function calls, return values, memory allocation etc. On the other hand, functional languages do not provide such an easily mappable or understandable paradigm. Debugging Functional languages can be quite messy and of course i don't know of any good debugging utilities for languages like (S)ML that are purely function in approach. Lack of toolkits might be another reason but then i am not too sure about what GUI toolkits Haskell has.
IN KDE press Alt-F2 and type in 'killall -9 netscape-communicator' and press Abracadabra! Netscape disappears! Now, press Alt-F2 and type in 'rm ~/.netscape/lock' and press then.. Alt-F2 and 'netscape &' Yippeeee Netscape is back!
Cars are not the only thing where inferior products are used inspite of better alternatives! Look at computers where a larger majority of the population depend on M$ products that have been proven harmful to the economy and public life in general. This is simply because a large majority of the amt of support available for M$ products. Most ppl don't knwo how to work on non-M$ products. MCSE's are trained to work on MS-powered computers. Companies manufacture hardware mainly for MS-powered computers. I mean, i would love to have a free, eco-friendly operating system right ? No paper/bandwidth/tv-time wasted for advertising, No plastics wasted on packaging.. but where would I get support to help me install it ? Just about only in some obscure HOWTO! This is precisely the reason why ppl dont' use electric cars as well!!
Itsn't this whole thing only as bad as biased benchmarks, only less sinister and misleading. In the case of biased benchmarks, ppl may actually use those benchmarks in order to take important decisions as to what OS/(Web/SQL)Server to deploy and a favorable benchmark might mean millions of $$$ for the winner. No-one goes by reviews alone when buying a product such as a word processor or a graphics package. We look more at features and familiarity and compliance with standards than what some stupid startup.com say about it. Most ppl relie on word of mouth that reviews in any case
Well I haven't played SoF myself but i was wondering if there were any Gore level settings like in UT. If these were there and the default was set to low gore ( unlike UT!), There wouldn't be any problems now would there ?
Slashdot Mirror
can someone tell me what free(beer) means ? what does being free have to do with beer ?
On the topic of netscape.... i think the reason netscape crashes so often is the memory factor.. i run n/s 4.73 on a linux box w/ 32mb and ns 4.51 on a solaris box with 1024MB. The linux one seems to crash a lot more often. Then again this could be due the unstable nature of the libs n/s uses under linux
Nope... netscape crashes most of the time and has a huge memory leak
Wait for microsoft ? I'm getting sick of waiting for my win2k machine to be up!
void InstallAllOurPropaganda(void){ ..... ); // KABOOOOM!!!
.
.
FILE *f = fopen ( "aim.xpi", "r");
// fopen fails... therefore f == NULL
fread( f,
.
.
}
http://linuxftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english /6_PR3/u nix /linux22/sea/netscape-i686-pc-linux-gnu-sea.tar.gz works too.. no spoof this time.
So does this mean that C# is going to be the next big thing ? .chm files for C#. Hordes of MCSE's or whatever they're called 'graduating' from one training center after another armed with C# knowledge.
From what you say.. Yes!
Support ? Well with the biggest software company in the world behind them, You can be hell sure about the kind of support you get for C#. MSDN CDs filled with
Preformance ? Win200x Dll's tuned to give best response times/ higher priority to programs compiled with C# ( wierd but possible! ). A C# interpreter or some sort as part of the ntoskernel ?
Tool Support ? MSDev has it all doesn't it ?
No one will get fired for buying C# as well ( if they do, M$ will hire them!)
Trained Staff ? See pt one.
Well C# seems to possess all the qualities you stated, come to think of it so does VB. so why wasn't VB the next big thing ?
-u2
is not in terms of code-complexity but in terms of singularity of function. grep is used simply for searching thru text, wget might be a little more complex since it has to (in my network setup) [connect to proxy]->[send http request]->[recieve html] or [print error ( more likely!)]->[parse html]->[find links]->[follow them] etc. etc..
In any case, how would you handle something like this recursively ?
Or rather, can you even do network connections in any functional programming language ?
Agree with you on this one.
Functional programming languages require you to think in a recursive manner, which we are not able to do since our brains have limited stack space as well. Hell to imagine what would happed if our brains ran out of stack spaSTACK OVERFLOW. SYSTEM HALTED
The current Von Neumann archetecture and the stored program concept seems to favor jumping around in code and manipulating memory bits that forms the base for procedural program. all other paradigms as essentially emulated on this archetecture making them inherently inefficient due to the conversion/emulation overhead.
Another reason is the inherent typeless nature of memory devices that introduces overhead whenever the type of a data needs to be checked or its 'implied' value ( as opposed to its binary value ) found.
Maybe, if we had a memory system where the bits were also 'typed' it might favor another programming paradigm.
-u2
>> In case you think everything i said in my post is wrong... You might be right
I agree with about the development time for function programs being less due the absence of debugging. But isn't this true only for very small simple programs. Sure you can code a working Tower of Hanoi or n-Queens simulation in SML in no time ( that's what we did in college while learning SML ). But how long would it take you to 'abstract and kneed' an MS Word or Netscape or even a simple utility like grep or wget using SML ? I can't even imagine doing such event-driven or input-specific programs in a functional language ( but of course i code only in C/C++/Java/asm )
-u2
It probably cause you haven't turned on 'willing to moderate' in your user options. I did it last week and since then i've been getting to meta-moderate. I've been a user for only 7-8 months
I'm user #37000-sthing.. what about you ?
I feel one of the main reason why functional programming languages are not being used quite often and extensively ( other than the fact that they are not being supported by big corporations unlike C++ (C# ?) and Java ) is the high level of abstraction that operate at.
Procedural languages like C/C++ and Java conform to existing hardware and assembly programming concept by providing methodologies and keywords that can be directly mapped to assembly equivalents such as function calls, return values, memory allocation etc. On the other hand, functional languages do not provide such an easily mappable or understandable paradigm.
Debugging Functional languages can be quite messy and of course i don't know of any good debugging utilities for languages like (S)ML that are purely function in approach.
Lack of toolkits might be another reason but then i am not too sure about what GUI toolkits Haskell has.
IN KDE press Alt-F2 and type in 'killall -9 netscape-communicator' and press
Abracadabra! Netscape disappears!
Now, press Alt-F2 and type in 'rm ~/.netscape/lock' and press
then..
Alt-F2 and 'netscape &'
Yippeeee Netscape is back!
Cars are not the only thing where inferior products are used inspite of better alternatives!
Look at computers where a larger majority of the population depend on M$ products that have been proven harmful to the economy and public life in general. This is simply because a large majority of the amt of support available for M$ products. Most ppl don't knwo how to work on non-M$ products. MCSE's are trained to work on MS-powered computers. Companies manufacture hardware mainly for MS-powered computers.
I mean, i would love to have a free, eco-friendly operating system right ? No paper/bandwidth/tv-time wasted for advertising, No plastics wasted on packaging.. but where would I get support to help me install it ? Just about only in some obscure HOWTO! This is precisely the reason why ppl dont' use electric cars as well!!
Now was that real funny or real bad ?
Itsn't this whole thing only as bad as biased benchmarks, only less sinister and misleading. In the case of biased benchmarks, ppl may actually use those benchmarks in order to take important decisions as to what OS/(Web/SQL)Server to deploy and a favorable benchmark might mean millions of $$$ for the winner. .com say about it. Most ppl relie on word of mouth that reviews in any case
No-one goes by reviews alone when buying a product such as a word processor or a graphics package. We look more at features and familiarity and compliance with standards than what some stupid startup
Well I haven't played SoF myself but i was wondering if there were any Gore level settings like in UT. If these were there and the default was set to low gore ( unlike UT!), There wouldn't be any problems now would there ?