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Netscape 6, PR 3 Released
A slew of people wrote in about the release of Netscape 6, PR 3
this morning -- Windows version, Linux 2.2, and Mac, assuming you speak English or Japanese. The word from Netscape is that French and German will be "soon." 'Course, I still think that apt-getting a certain Mozilla is all ya need, but hey.
It may be a huge improvement over the last release, but here's a quick list of fundamental features that screwed me up in the first five minutes of installing on Windows 2000:
1. Can't say "use this proxy for all protocols". The is so annoying to have to type the proxy name into three or four fields, especially if you have multiple proxies.
2. Tab key doesn't move through fields when editing (proxy dialog). On the third press of the TAB key, the focus on the current field disappears and no other is focused. What's going on?
3. Left or right arrow won't move the cursor when editing text in a field (proxy dialog).
4. Enter key does not activate default button on HTML forms e.g. logging in to Slashdot. This is just crap.
These errors are so simple, it shocks me. If they can't even get these things right, then what hope is there?
This is yet another Netscape branded catastrophy. Remember Netscape 6 != Mozilla!!!
However, Mozilla has gotten better and better, I have been using it as my primary browser for nearly 4 months now, and Linux, Mac, Windows, and on OpenBSD.
IMHO, Konqueror has nothing on Mozilla (I was never fond of the particular style of most KDE applications anyway, so I may be biased). If you want to compare something to something, compare the latest nightly to it.
The most recent nightlys have been rock stable, they render fast, the UI problems have been cleaned up (Classic being the default theme, with Modern/2 availible and a lot better than Modern.)
Mozilla has infinite potential, and has been slowly realizing it.
Same here as far as OS and kernel version.
I did manage to get it running however. I discovered that I had to run the binary ([install_dir]/netscape) as root the first time. After that it seems to run fine though it keeps popping up this annoying registration screen. With no 'opt-out' option I might add.
I've also found that after awhile it just locks up on me. Hard. I have to kill it off by hand.
I'm going to stick with the nightly builds myself. Granted they don't have the handy ^R features but at least the alpha level nightly's are more stable than a preview release from Netscape.
I am forced to use IE at work but I use Netscape at home. Yes, Netscape has the slower load time but that's unfair to judge since MS makes IE load at startup.
I like features of Netscape over IE:
1) bookmarks are stored in one file instead of shortcuts so I only have 1 file to transfer back and from work to access all my bookmarks.
2) for web design I like Netscape because of you can right click and view images easier. You can only save the image in IE.
The only thing I like in IE over NS is the easier method to manage bookmarks. You can right clock on the bookmark menu at delete one or move it around. In NS you have to "edit bookmarks".
Support for Sun's JRE went in on Friday, as far as I know (I read the bugzilla entry but the number escapes me). I think the goal was to get it into PR3, but I don't know if it made it or not.
It also doesn't understands well Javascripts on some pages I tried.
Mozilla's DOM implementation is incompatible with both NS4's proprietary model and also with some popular IE extentions to the W3C DOM (like document.all which is almost universal in IE scripting).
So, this is a feature, not a bug.
(Is Konqueror trying to implement a full DOM implementation, or are they just aiming for the NS3-style form Javascripts?)
When I hear the word 'innovation', I reach for my pistol.
I almost pee'ed my pants after seeing the new interface and how stable it is! I am impressed. How much longer (estimated time) before the final version?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
-- We should kill all the intolerant people in the world.
It also doesn't understands well Javascripts on some pages I tried.
Note that some of those Javascript problems come from broken scripts that just happens to work with the implementation in NS4.x, IE or both, but not in Mozilla. As far as I know, the implementation in Mozilla/NS6 should be more like the standards than in NS4.x:s. But of course there are still real bugs in Javascript implementation itself, so this doesn't explain everything. I just wanted to note that some troubles aren't really faults of browser, but the scripts itself.
Everyone who makes generalizations should be shot.
I don't want a lot, I just want it all!
Flame away, I have a hose!
Only 'flamers' flame!
Yeah, the old Netscape sure was a GREAT program. [/sarcasm] What planet were you on? Netscape was always a piece of crap. Its only claim to fame was being better than Microsoft's pitiful attempt to copy it.
Browser revisionism lives!
Re the memory requirements: all betas tend to do that. Memory requirements are trimmed down for the final release. If it's 30+ MB in the final, THEN I'll take issue.
Re the "Modern" skin: big thumbs up. I just wish Mozilla had at least a couple more skins ready for download when this came out. Re the speed of displayed pages: it does seem faster than IE5.5, although I haven't tested it side-by-side yet this morning. It's disturbingly slower when I click the "back" arrow to reload a page, though. Rather odd.
Big bug still present: when I modify several preferences at once, it won't "ok" the changes. I have to change just one panel at a time, then "ok" it and go back. But it doesn't crash anymore, at least.
One thing I really want to see with this Mozilla browser, though, is for Yahoo! to pick it up and customize it. Right now this browser is heavily customized for AOL/Netcenter users, and I'm not one of those. If Yahoo! can take Netscape 6 and tweak it their own way, I'll be ecstatic to use it.
> Sorry, it pains me to say it, but Microsoft > STILL have the better browser. > Although you do specify in your subject line that speed is the issue, faster is not always better. I find IE to be patently unstable and if I figure in having to restart IE or reboot my PC to keep browsing, the numbers shift strongly to Netscape. Netscape is slower when it runs, but then so was the tortoise. Virg
I also tried deleting my .mozilla directory and also removing mozilla completely and it still core dumps every damn time I try to run it!
I have about 400 bookmarks saved in Netscape 4.75. This file takes up 167k of diskspace. On IE, the same bookmarks, as Internet Shortcuts consumes anywhere between 4k and 32k per shortcut depending on partition sizes. That means the same links eat up anywhere between 1.6 and 12.5 megabytes of disk space!
Not only that, IE has a severely retarded shortcut ordering scheme that frequently goes wrong after renaming or deleting an item, shortcut names can't contain certain characters such as ampersands & slashes, and IE has no equivalent of aliases or separators.
All in all, IE shortcuts are piss-poor substitute for a single bookmarks.html.
Mozilla is way faster than Netscape 4.7x, renders fonts a lot better, and doesn't crash a couple times a day like Netscape 4 does (and Netscape 6PR2 did.) It has trouble loading some Java applets and it was a bitch to get SSL working, but I'm looking forward to a nicely packaged 1.0. But I downloaded this one because the Nautilus "preview" wanted it, and I'm glad I did.
Even more so, I'm looking forward to someone writing a browser that uses Gecko and supports Java/JS/SSL, but doesn't do all that lame non-standard XML user interface garbage that looks nothing like my other windows. I'd be running Galeon right now if it even did JS and SSL.
I haven't tried Konqueror yet because I can't get KDE2 to install on my Mandrake 7.0 box - too old a kernel version and I haven't had time to download the 7.2 beta ISO's. One of these weekends.
Complete agreement on what a browser should be: faster, lighter, smaller, etc. But as far as your .sig, form validation on the client side alone justifies JavaScript. Seriously, there are many instances in which it would be ridiculous to keep hitting the server, and client-side JavaSCript/ECMAScript is the only good answer. Just my $.02
Cheers.
La via sola al paradiso incommincia nel inferno
http://www.westmarket.com/
I must agree. I have been playing with it for about an hour now, and have hit most of the sites that caused problems before. Not even a crash. All in all, I am pretty impressed by things. Just need to find some skinz now....
I totaly understand the allure of a clean UI, hell i use black box ;) Yet, NS6 UI hasnt angered me yet, to the point of using something like Skipstone. im sure the day will come, sooner, rather than later ... and the theme is kinda cool.
Until that day comes, I do relish in the fact that NS6 UI's is driven by xml ... so one can hack away at it ... till one is content. I just dl'd this release, and messed with it a bit. Removed those anoying links on the bottom. Now the NS logo links to nowhere ... yea these are simple hacks, that really dont do much for speed... but remove some anoying things (in my oponion).
Next on my list is to possibly replace the logo with a slashdot one ... and link it to slashdot ;) ... that and hack out the sidebar. If I want a sidebar, id use IE ... i use NS because it isnt IE, and I really dont like the whole "Oh MS has some new GUI idea lets copy it mentatlity" ( No offence here ... just a little steam)(I also realize that this idea prolly really came from Opera to begin with...) .
My only question is, how long be for Apple and its stupid lawerys try to pass the theme off as being an Aqua rip-off and sue?
/* Lobster Stick To Magnet!*/
I remember when new versions of Netscape brought new features and made the WWW more interactive. Now we've got a better IM client, and a bunch of broken features.
AOL buying Netscape was the beginning of the end of Netscape. Now, it seems that AOL is trying to slowly creep into our PC's, and personally I don't want anything to do with it. The tech-world is caught up in other things right now, but all these things are layered on top of the WWW. After the general novelty wears off (3-4 more years?) I think we'll have a dozen or more good browsers to choose from. If we all _need_ to access the WWW, then eventually we'll see more programmers dedicate time to writing a stable, efficient browser.
-This sig intentionally left blank
Speculation will get you nowhere.
Did you even actually -look- at how big the link files are? My biggest IE Favorite link is 298 bytes. I have just over 100 favorites, and they total 18 kb.
People need to stop spouting hollow theories and do some good old research before opening their gob.
Uhm. Where is this mozilla that you speak of? The Mozilla I've tried has been bloated, slow, and buggy.
I tried submitting bug reports...I followed their FAQ to the letter...but people on bugzilla seemed to scoff at any reports from anyone outside of @netscape.net.
For me, IE5 in Windows, Konqueror in Linux. Both are very speedy, and neither one has crashed yet for me...
Just my $0.02...
--------------------------
Just a quick comment, Konqueror is new to KDE2. The KDE 1 browser is a much more stripped down browser that was embedded into EFM. Konqueror is a very full featured browser that last I heard was even going to support Netscape plugins.
treke
I know they disabled :hover in this release (and the latest nightlies) because no one can understand how to make it work with relation to DOM. Better to not support it at all than support it wrong (just look at Netscape 4)....
Windows 2000: Designed for the Internet. The Internet: Designed for UNIX.
I am running Win98 and I like to open 5+ windows in Netscape when I use it. Of course that also means that I have Netscape crash on me an average of 7-10 times a day. Would downloading this new PR copy help in this case?
I love Netscape but it seems to be the reason I have to reboot 90% of the time...due to my own crazy multitasking of course, but still...
------
Let me give you the lowdown
It just seg faults on Slack 7.1 for me.
Today I installed Konquerer for the first time. I was totally blown away. I've been using it all day and IMHO it is the best web browser available for Linux today.
The file manager component is coming along nicely too. It's no match for a trusty shell at your side though.
XJS*C4JDBQADN1.NSBN3*2IDNEN*GTUBE-STANDARD-ANTI-U
Don't try this version of Netscape on Linux. I just tried it a few hours ago..
Lots of rendering bugs, slow (very slow!), a very slow java implementation, problems with Javascripts...
You're on drugs, and you must be lying. While I admit that I don't think Mozilla is yet ready for prime time, it does not suck as bad as you say it does. You are probably lying outright, but I doubt if I'll every know. Both Konqueror and now this latest release of Mozilla are better than Netscape. Don't tell people not to upgrade to one or the other. Let them make the decision. Ever since Troll Tech GPL'd QT, I havn't cared much about whichever desktop I use. Whichever fits the job. You, on the other hand, are spreading lies. Go back to the hole you crawled from; you're giving us all a bad name.
Dave
'Round the firewall,
Out the modem,
Through the router,
Down the wire,
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
This is interesting.
So you have running at the same time Mozzila, xmms, SO5.2, licq with "no slowdown", and you care about dcopserver making konqueror start 3 seconds longer ( on my K6/166, not on your 300MHz CPU ), and moreover needing 230kB RAM ( unshared, according to 'top' - you most probably don't know how to interpret the memory usage numbers ).
Those 7 other friends : some of them make konqueror and it's kio slaves have lower memory consumption and start faster, one of them takes care of mimetypes, next one cookies, and the rest is the kio slaves. So most people won't think it's necessary to provide the capability not to use dcopserver.
Could you provide links to some of the sites that only work in IE? Assuming they are sites that are worthwhile visiting...
I have been using Konqueror as my main browser for a month now, and going by the CVS of two days ago, the only site I value that has serious problems is www.cex.co.uk, where a JavaScript menuing system doesn't work. Other than that, it just works! I haven't looked at Mozilla for a month or so, but I would hope that it has even better compatibility than Konqueror - I only stopped using it because I didn't like the slowness of its UI.
Couldn't agree more, Jeff. I have been wanting to love Netscape again ever since IE started becoming the 'choice' browser. Good ol' days when IE 3.0 was all there was and couldn't surf for anything...
After seeing the other two milestones, PR3 definitly proves that it's coming back into the public's eye, not just us techies and geeks and [insert your tech identity here].
Compared to the other milestones on the Win9x port, PR3 is probably the most stable one I've used. It's actually more stable than 4.7, which isn't a big leap on my system. Rendering is fast, comparably the same speed as IE5. IE5 might be faster to open and using some window functions, but like someone else previously posted, it's mostly due to IE5's tight integration in Winblows.
Because it's a beta (or "Preview Release"), I don't expect it to be flawless, so I will mention briefly that it has trouble rendering some links, Java applets, and especially Javascripts. Plus it automatically installs that stupid Net2Phone, just like every other PR release.
Overall, I'm satified. I will most likely use this more than IE5, mostly because of its AIM/My Sidebar integrator, but I'm able to do this without a loss of speed and little loss of features. Definitly two bytes up.
-Mr. Fusion
It depends on what you want to do. I find that for just viewing pages, it's ok, but if you want DHTML or any programmability, the DOM for netscape isn't nearly as rich as IE's. (stop flamming, you know it's true). I just wish one of the two would open up an emulation of the others interface so that we poor bastard programmers could code one friggin page.
Clearer of the path to wisdom and enlightenment.
You get rid of it by removing it's reg key from the registry at something like:\ currentConfig\run
\\hkey_Local_Machine\Software\Microsoft\windows
In PR1, my style sheets didn't work.
In PR2, they seemed to work fine.
In PR3, my style sheets aren't working again.
I've tried to be careful with my HTML/CSS compliance (at least, it checks out with W3C's validator), so this on again/off again behavior is puzzling.
I don't want to say that old problems are being reintroduced into this release, but it's frustrating to try and support a browser that keeps changing behavior.
I have installed software (forgot what it is) that put icons (i) on the desktop (ii) on the main Start menu (iii) on the Start menu under Programs. Give me a break!
--
Actually, it's completely logical, considering that English, Japanese, and German are, in that order, the three most common languages found on Web pages and among Net users. French, Chinese (Mandarin), and Spanish are in positions four through six, though their specific order depends on which of these numbers you use.
I don't particularly want to cast myself in the role of a Netscape defender, but it's rather knee-jerk conspiracy-theorist to imply this is evil money-grubbing corporate pandering when there is a simple, logical explanation that fits the facts equally well. Namely, that Netscape is devoting its resources to serving the largest markets (as defined by user base) first. Let's save the gratuitous Netscape-bashing for their truly dumb and craven decisions.
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
Authentication failed or is missing
What does that mean??--Hail Mary, for she has the largest shotgun of them all.--
Well, they sort of have and sort of haven't. For starters, Netscape 4 is about 12-15MB IIRC, and a Mozilla nightlies are about 8-10MB. The Mozilla tarballs contain at least two entirely seperate skins, and Netscape 4 doesn't even have one (it lets Motif do most of the drawing, while Mozilla Does It All Itself). So that's a chunk of stuff Mozilla includes and Netscape doesn't, so chop that off the Moz filesize.
Assumimg you compare the Linux versions you have to mention that the Linux Netscape package contains two binaries: dynamically and statically linked to Motif. The static binary is about 6MB compressed, so you should subtract that from the 12-15MB for the Netscape package if you want a fair comparision.
Much as I hate to say this in a story all about NS6 and Mozilla... but this tallies very well indeed with my experience.
/. where the rounded left edge of the green story headings is not placed correctly. Mysteriously, this bug seems to disappear after about an hour's use of mozilla. What's going on there then?
:( these are huge improvements over the moz we knew and loved of just a month or two ago, and the stated aim from now until M20 is to improve all these things, and these have started to bear fruit already.
The most recent nightly of moz I have (29/9/2000)is still slow, not anywhere near as slow as it once was - it is actually very usable, but it is still noticably slower than other browsers, especially in the UI. Click on a menu or any other XPCOM widget and you can feel the thing thinking about it before something happens. Those of you with fast machines may not notice this, but it's very noticable on my old PII. Page rendering is decently fast, but not anywhere near best-of-the-best.
There are still rendering bugs - there's a small but annoying one here on
Perhaps most worrying is the bloat. On launch, mozilla is already quite greedy, taking up around 18MB on my machine. However, an hour's solid web-surfing - in just one browser window - has this up to about 40MB, which is just insane. On my 64MB machine, this causes no end of swapping and thrash. I pity those poor souls trying to get mozilla working on machines with anything less.
Now, before you flame me to death (or, of course, mod me down into oblivion) for attacking mozilla, remember that (with the exception of bloat, which appears to be getting worse
However, there is a new kid on the block if you want a fast, solid, modern, compatible browser for *nix, and that's Konqueror. As it stands now, for pretty much every aspect of web-browsing I can think of, it's significantly better than moz is. It's blazingly fast (neck and neck with Opera IMHO), solidly standards-compliant (it claims HTML4/CSS2 compatibility, and I haven't seen anything which implies otherwise yet), has a small memory footprint, does Java, Javascript and SSL well... what more could you want?
Finally there is a browser for *nix that I want to use. It feels good.
I don't seem to be able to find much actual release notes worth anything on Netscapes site. Is it based on M17, M18 or what? Trying to see if the CSS, Javascript, DOM support is up to start using for the apps we are building.
Akvo.org - the open source for water and sanitation
Why wouldn't they focus their release on where the money comes from? They're a business, for chrissake.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Happened while dropping down "alt" in the news reader in WinNT. Still, all in all, Netscape 6 PR3 is much better than 4.75.
Actually, the 2-3x figure is deceptive (Nothing new for MS). You don't know how much IE5 is using because so much of it is built into the OS and executed on bootup.
Don't forget that windows
are quite different beasts, despite doing roughly
the same thing.
Windows dlls are not fully PIC (position
independent code) so they are smaller than an
equavalent unix one. OTOH a unix
be shared between processes, but a windows one
may not be able to unless it can map to the exact
same address in both processes!
Unix is better if you have many processes using
the same lib, and windows wins if there is only
one copy being used.
Stephen.
... the Mac IMHO.. The last nightly I put on it ran much sweeter than NT or (gack! when will we not have to export anything to run the damned thing??) Linux..
Hell, the themes were working properly in the Mac version, I'm quite impressed...
Maybe it's time to try another Linux download?
Your Working Boy,
fread( f,
Everyone knows you're supposed to check the return value from fopen and friends before using it to make sure it's not null or some other bad value and take appropriate action if it is.
Gripes aside I'm looking forward to the final release which can't that far away.
Is this slow for anyone else? I am running win98 on an AMD K6-200 with 64mb ram, nothing else running, and it is amazingly slow. Not just slow launching, but an overall sluggishness in everything from file menu access to page rendering. Unusable for me . Pretty, seems to have become rather asthetically pleasing, but still unusable as of yet.
"A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither. " Ben Franklin
Yesterday's comments suggest this bug is
fixed. If it still doesn't work for you,
I'd consider voting for it.
netscape needs to die now. it is too screwed up. i have tried mozilla, it sucks too. renders faster, but still sucks. somebody needs to write an i.e. hack or build a new browser from scratch that runs on Xfree86 4 for linux. forget multi-platform. it is a waste of time.
Stuart Eichert
Stuart Eichert
Yeah, I actually got it to work the second crack at installing. It just kind of worried me when it didn't work, and I didn't see 2000 listed as one of the supported OS's. Oh well... I've been pretty impressed from what I've seen as well. Definitely a huge improvement over PR2, if for no other reason than it looks better. Also seems to handle web pages a little better, and is definitely faster.
After PR2, I was wondering why I should even care about Netscape6, whenever it's released. Perhaps there's hope yet.
The fact that I said "mozilla installer" was an oversight.
I do understand the difference between the two, I just would have preferred an option to disable that "feature" I don't take very kindly that Netscape put an icon for itself on my desktop either without asking.
-Julius X
-Julius X
remove "-whatkindofspamdoyoutakemefor-" from email to send
On Windows 98 at least, what you have to do is right click on the systray icon, and choose properties. Some BS screen will come up wanting you to register/upgrade to RealPlayer Pro or something, cancel out and you'll get a preferences screen. Somewhere there is an option to "Disable StartCenter" or such.
It's probably in the registry Local/Software/Microsoft/Windows/Current/Run or Run Services as well, though I've never looked for it.
:-)
Tyco: Uh, Lord, it's not nice to shoot people while their typing.
Jesus: Chatty bitch should get on IRC if he wants to talk.
Gabe: That's what I'm talking about!
If only Slashdot would let me fit all that into my sig.
I'm guessing you are using one of the released beta versions here. AFAIK they have all been pretty buggy - it's amazing how bad they are. I build from CVS most days, and it just gets better every day. I have had trouble with downloading some files with Konqueror too (last night, Java plugin 1.2.2, about 10MB).
As far as the JavaScript goes, when its final, it could be worth a look. I had a few sites that were causing trouble with it, but the only one that still doesn't work (as of two days ago) is www.cex.co.uk.
That was the goal at one point, but that was before they decided to throw everything but the kitchen sink into the browser.
At this point, its something of a lost cause to try and prevent bloat in NS6.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
That is the size reported. In actuality it takes more. Depending on your cluster size (assuming fat filesystem; fat32 can help prevent this) the file will take the entire cluster. (One cluster can hold only 1 file)
So, by having one bookmark file instead of many, you save disk space.
With large hard drives, you tend to use larger clusters, probably 32k per cluster. So, multiply all of your favorites files by 32k, and it adds up fast.
-- Thrakkerzog
I disagree. I know that deep underneath they are te same product but NS are simply picking at bits of the mozilla code to use in their releases. Mozilla will continue to evolve on a daily basis, whereas NS will get updated every couple of months. In the meantime, they will compete against each other.
IMHO, they are *not* the same product at all.
Another problem I've run into is this:
Web Page checks to see if I'm using IE, nope.
Checks to see if I am using Netscape 4.x, nope.
So none of the javascript gets called. I've tried a few of these pages where if I take out the browser checking, the script works fine.
--------- Beware the dragon, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
As for the my side bar problem, you probably got it set in the preferences to open search results in My Sidebar. If you switch off this it should stop reappearing.
After releasing the creepy PR2 (man, did it suck or what), it seems Netscape got it right this time...
I usually have always the latest nightly build installed, and PR3 seems a little faster than the nightlies (both when browsing and when using mail, which used to be damn slow some time back. Now it's only slow.). It loads faster also.
And the nicest thing: I went to a page with Java, and it didnt't crash!!! Goodbye "killall -9 netscape"!!!
For those interested, I really suggest getting it. This really is looking like a road up to a "final" release, after all.
(BTW, posted with PR3.)
--
Marcelo Vanzin
Marcelo Vanzin
Pepsi owns Pizza Hut, is it okay if they splashed some on top of my supreme or pre-dipped my breadsticks in it?
I must've missed that one. What is that name of it?
I hate typekillers!
Refrag
I have a website. It's about Macs.
--
Mecworks BLOG
Looking through these comments I can see they are evenly divided between "it's slow and bloated and doesn't work" to "it's lean and fast and really much better". I guess the moral is that just because it works for you, doesn't mean it'll work for someone else. And if it doesn't work for you, there's light at the end of the tunnel. Mozilla has now become my main browser, the only thing I need netscape 4.x for is to log into some sites because of bug 53182. Vote for it, if you haven't. It's important.
I'm running both IE (albeit not 5.5, only 5.0) and the latest preview of Netscape here side by side. And I've gotta hand it to Netscape, it whoops IE's ass in rendering the stuff I'm looking at now.
The reason I haven't upgraded to 5.5 is that it's more crap than 5.0.
5.0 won't sometimes let me save attachments on my deja.com email account.
When I use 5.5 and I try to open a webpage somewhere and it can't look up its IP it just stops on that page, it won't let me refresh (like I can in 5.0) to try and look it up again (which usually does the trick), it just sits there, I can't even enter the same url in the Location field and try again, nopers, I have to open a new window and try there.
So, yes IE[<5.5] sucks ass bigtime,
whereas Netscape6 PR3 does not.
just my €0.02
Opera's CSS1 support is top notch (its currently the best *release* browser for Windows in terms of CSS1 support), and CSS2 is pretty good with some problems.
The DOM support is severely lacking at best. Its hard to find out just what it supports, but I don't believe even DOM 1 is really implemented yet.
Apparently, we can expect that to drastically change when the next big release comes up (which I believe will be 4.5). Considering the way that 3.5 went from no CSS to one of the best implementations in Windows in a single release, I think they can pull it off.
- A frequenter of the opera newsgroups.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
They're called "dll's" and the cool thing about them is they actually save memory by being shared with other applications.
Why would you count memory usage of code that exists in one place in memory and is shared by several other apps?
Cheers,
Justin.
"My cat's breath smells like cat food." - The Tao of Ralph Wiggum.
I was under the assumption ... one of the goals of the mozilla project was to reduce the size of the code
Well, they sort of have and sort of haven't. For starters, Netscape 4 is about 12-15MB IIRC, and a Mozilla nightlies are about 8-10MB. The Mozilla tarballs contain at least two entirely seperate skins, and Netscape 4 doesn't even have one (it lets Motif do most of the drawing, while Mozilla Does It All Itself). So that's a chunk of stuff Mozilla includes and Netscape doesn't, so chop that off the Moz filesize.
Next, remember that Netscape 4 on all three platforms is ported from one platform to another - only the very core code stays the same and the rest (GUI, networking, and so forth) is provided by the platform. Mozilla is designed to be as portable as possible, and so abstracts away as much of the underlying OS as possible so almost all of Moz is cross-platform code. This is more functionality that you won't find in Netscape 4, so for comparison, chop another hunk off the Mozilla filesize.
After taking into account the (sizable) extra functionality that Mozilla has over Netscape, Mozilla *is* a lot smaller. But really, it's shifted the bulk of code, rather than removing it, so you can make up your own mind.
Personally, I don't mind - from what I've heard of Netscape's current situation, they've only resources to write their browser once, not three times, so it's a choice between extreme crossplatform-ness or Mozilla being Windows-only... I'm glad I've got Mozilla for Linux at all.
On the windows front, Mozilla is going to have more of a struggle against MSIE
It'll be interesting to see what AOL does with Netscape 6. If they decide to replace IE with it then we could see a massive dent in IE's market share.
Chris
Besides, it's always a good idea to have a few browsers installed since sites all too frequently don't work properly with one or the other.
I am impressed with the amoun to f improvement since PR2. The UI is lightning fast even with the new "modern" skin in Win98 on a PII233 with 64MB. The menus all pop up instantly, and the HTML canvas scrolls smoothly.
This is just sweet! I'm one happy camper. Now, hopefully the linux version is just as good...
"Free your mind and your ass will follow"
And your point is what? You can't write portable code and neither can NatWest? You need to look a bit deeper and see who is at fault. It might be Netscape: if so log a bug report. On the other hand there are a lot of crappy web sites 'designed for IE'. You need to work out which before you go shooting your mouth off.
I'm always surprised when people suggest that IE is not a better browser than Netscape.
Perhaps you'll indulge me while I go on a long rant... yesterday was not a fun day to write code for the Netscape browser...
Netscape 6 is definitely a big huge step in the right direction, but 4.7 is (in my opinion and experience) the absolute worst piece of software in any product category, ever.
In developing web applications, I find that I can reliably count on my code to horribly crash or lock Netscape to the point that I have to kill the process at least 3 times a week. And every one of those problems takes a couple hours and dozens of repeat crashes to track down! Invariably, it's a minor syntax error that IE handles more elegantly, or a straight out massive bug in Netscape.
Yesterday, it was a cut-and-paste error with the include statement for a stylesheet. It wasn't at the path I indicated and it locked up the whole netscape process.
I'll probably have several people reply to tell me I should just use straight HTML, no Javascript, no CSS, nothing dealing with the DOM... and I could do that, but I must ask: What is the point in including horribly bugged, non-standards-compliant, "support" for these things in the first place. IF IT'S WORTH DOING... IT'S WORTH DOING RIGHT. I wrote boring HTML for Netscape 3, and the whole web universe has moved on since then...
IE is by far the most stable, standards-compliant browser with any reasonable amount of market share, and when developing web pages, you don't get to choose what browser they'll run in. The people get to choose. And I can only hope and pray nightly that they choose to ditch Netscape 4.7 in favor of IE 5 as soon as possible, and maybe switch over to Netscape 6 or Mozilla when they are truly ready for the masses (masses means my grandmother, not just me and my programmer friends).
- StaticLimit
and I've been using Linux since 1990
...
IIRC the first public release of the Linux kernel was 1991. So not only are you are troll, you're also a liar
Chris
Wow, this is the best release yet... the new look is nice... and it works much, much faster... maybe i'll i really will start using netscape more often when in windows :)
Just my two cents
Krystalia
The name is something like, With Special Guest. It's found right here. An oldie (Quake3 demo?), but a goodie.
Has anyone got this problem?
:)
I installed NSCP6PR3 (Debian woody, kernel 2.4.0-test5) and I can only use security features via PSM as root, not as a normal user. I don't want to log in as root to check my bank account
Aside of that, it's GREAT! And, at the first time, Java applets work (or at least the majority of them) in a good manner in Linux.
Cesar Cardoso can be found at cesar at zyakannazio dot eti dot br (or at least I believe so)
Somehow I don't think this is the best thing Netscape should be doing.
Remember that Netscape is AOL and AOL is by nature evil. AOL needs to have a proprietary, closed browser, so they *have* to fork Mozilla. No way around that one. That's the bad news, the good news is that right now we have our own Mozilla, it's a damn good browser, and we can use it to hit AOL over the head with standards compliance. Don't freak out about this too much, because right now AOL's interests are running in parallel with ours, and they will until Microsoft is beaten. It's our job to take Mozilla, now GPL, and make it *better* than AOL's closed version. Damn, all we ever needed out of this deal is a replacement for Netscape that is open source and can handle all the current standards. We're actually getting a good deal more: we've got an 800 pound gorilla for a friend that is intent on busting up Microsoft's attempt to corner the web server market.
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
I would have to agree that Netscape is a rather bulky, lose-ended browser program. Not to give too many props to big computer corporations that don't need any (ahem...M$) but even IE is much faster, and more friendly. Even back in the day when Netscape was in its infant stages, IE would load quicker and seem more nimble under the flying fingers of the most demanding surfer. After all, who wants to wait while numerous plugins and inits take so long to load. Competition to mainstay programs is what keeps our community moving ahead, but I must say that Netscape maybe should think about streamlining their code....after all it is for the masses.
Well.. I don't mind seeing these drops. While I, personally, follow the nightlies with zealous fervor, I understand that many casual users aren't willing to go through the hoops to install PSM for SSL capabilities (Granted, now that XPI is working correctly, PSM is just a click away), or a Java VM, etc. Also, they've turned off a lot of the debugging, so at least the Windows users are going to see the true speed of this thing. It's outperforming IE5 on my poor widdle 266MMX. Netscape's Previews tend to include the entire kitchen sink. True, you have to rip out that wretched netphone, and most of us would rather have our toenails removed with pliers than use AOL for messaging, but it gives you a good picture of how Moz is coming along as a full application. There are a couple unique issues that I've found with this build, which I've already reported, but so far, it looks quite good.
Weapons of Mass Analysis
I installed on RH7 this morning (using their standard silly install program) and it worked fine until it crashed once after about 4 hours of use. It's not quite there yet, but I think I'll switch from NS4.7 for most things.
Capt. Ron
crazy dynamite monkey
>As for Konqueror, I haven't used it, but my >understanding is that Konqueror was intended
>to be a leaner, meaner browser based on Gecko.
Konqueror has nothing to do with Gecko. Konqueror
is the next generation kfm.
On another Note, to get Shochwave to work under windows copy the program netscp6.exe to Netscape.exe, then install shockwave and when it asks vor the cersion point it to the plugins directory. It works, but is not perfect.
To get quicktime 4 to work install quicktime for netscape 4. Then copy the QuickTimePlugin.call file as well as the npqtplugin.dll, npqtplugin2.dll, and npqtplugin3.dll files. That should work. I was able to view a few movies with that with no problems.
I don't want a lot, I just want it all!
Flame away, I have a hose!
Only 'flamers' flame!
Netscape 5 was to be based on Netscape Public Release code from 4.0, as developed by the Mozilla project.
6 is based on the all-new Gecko rendering engine, and 5 was scrapped. They were running more-or-less in parallel for awhile--in fact, it took some work to convince NS to go with the new engine.
I wonder why no Windows 2000 support though? I tried installing it anyway on my 2000 box, and the netscp6.exe just hangs. Have to try a re-install I guess...
:).
Strange, I'm writing this from Netscape6 pr3 on my w2k laptop, and the damn thing has been up since I turned it on first about 4-5 hours ago and is just chewing on 35MB of ram (which is ok, I've got 160 more
The speed of that thing is great!! It runs circles around IE when it comes to rendering. The new default skin that comes with it is _VERY_ aesthetically (correct spelling?) pleasing.
One minor "feature" about it that I've noticed (at least with me) is that i doesn't seem to handle it when I jump from a link in a table to a new page and back, to go back to where I was in the table before I clicked a link.
But apart from that minor detail, if the final version is _anything_ like this preview release, I'd be more than happy to even pay for it.
I'm curious about this, got a link to some info you wanna share?
Cheers,
Justin
"My cat's breath smells like cat food." - The Tao of Ralph Wiggum.
I am grateful to a certain extent. Netscape really created the market only to have Microsoft leverage their OS dominance to take away Netscape's market. It's too bad, but frankly, I think that IE deserved to win.
The other thing I applaud Netscape for is taking the necessary step of scrapping the old code-base and starting anew. If the point releases past 4.5 are any indication, the current code base is beyond help. It's too bad the damage is done. Thousands of people using Netscape's current (rather shody) browser makes my job more difficult. I still relish in finding out why Netscape is crashing and successfully kludging around it... but I'd prefer to amuse myself with clever new ways to deploy applications over the web.
I know that Netscape Navigator is closed-source and the company sold out to AOL
Just as an aside, open source is of course not a substitute for quality, it's just a method to make quality more attainable.
- StaticLimit
Not only is the block servers option missing, but everytime my hosts file blocks an ad I get an "Connection refused" dialog box I have to click. Nor can I get the properties of an image without first copying its location and then pasting it someplace I can see it or view the entire page source.
I can get rid of the box pop-ups if I run apache, then I get a quick "not Found" message in the ad space. But I don't think I'll be switching from IE anytime soon. How's junkbuster work with this version?
BS! Win32 loader maps DLL code segment into a process address space. Load will only happen once. There is nothing not PIC about DLLs in Win32 either - they can and very often are rebased to a different address.
The complaints against the current state of the Netscape 6 Preview Releases should be tempered by the understanding that it is primarily the Netscape 6 release schedule which is causing the mozilla improvements to occur so quickly.
;-)
Sure, there are problems in the NS6 preview releases which are fixed in the latest nightly build, but that's because the NS6 preview release is not based on the latest nightly build. You should expect that. Generally, you will find that the fixes from the Netscape NS6 team's most recent preview release appear in the latest Mozilla build. By contrast, it is literally impossible to have the latest Mozilla fixes in the most recent NS6 release.
As for Konqueror, I haven't used it, but my understanding is that Konqueror was intended to be a leaner, meaner browser based on Gecko. It darn well ought to be faster. But does it have the all-important AIM integration? I think not! Take that, Konqueror!
I just installed PR3 and tried it with a 'thin' java client we use with our ERP package. This is a very complex little java applet which is basically a re-write of the vendor's MS Windows client server application in Java.
It ran flawlessly, and without some display artifacts that I have seen in IE - so actually it ran better than it did in IE.
-josh
Speaking of Netscape 5, whatever happened to it? How come they are going from 4.7x to 6.PR3?
Those who don't know me, probably shouldn't trust me. Those that do know me, DEFINITELY shouldn't trust me.
Troll. Pathetic too. Ignore
>assuming you speak English or Japanese. The word
>from Netscape is that French and German will be
>"soon".
Considering that a lot more people in the world speak spanish then german, french, or japanese, this seems a weird choice in languages. Or perhaps Netscape incorporated is only looking at where the advertising dollars come from.
Ok ok...I can deal with most things, but when I saw the Mozilla "installer" (i.e., downloader) picking up a package called "AOL On Desktop"--aod.xpi, I promptly became suspicious. I deleted the file before the Netscape Installer could install that .xpi, but then the installer crashed. How beautiful. They give you no choice on whether you want that or not. Looks like Netscape is doing the Real(tm) thing for us.
(Sigh).
-Julius X
-Julius X
remove "-whatkindofspamdoyoutakemefor-" from email to send
But, looking at it from a marketing perspective, if they came out with 5 now then they'd be behind Microsoft. By coming out with 6 they're ahead of Microsoft again.
But that's just plain cynical.
--
Remember that a lot of the memory IE uses won't be attributed to IE itself. IE uses all the windows native libraries that are running all the time. If you use Netscape a lot, simply load it on system start.
Does anyone know why it's allocating so much memory? Is every other line of code malloc() or something? Hopefully, it's just debug stuff for now, but I'd hope the release version doesn't gulp memory down like this.
*makes note to self in palm*
:)
"mommy, I got a +5 informative today.. the world must truly be going to hell*..."
* especially since i was actually dopey enough to read that irc transcript..
-'fester
I downloaded Opera 4 yesterday to test out some web pages I've been developing for my company. These pages are extremely rich in terms of CSS and stylesheets, so it's extremely important for me that I make things as cross-browser as possible. I find it quit amazing that IE4+, NS4+, and Mozilla all can render these rich pages while Opera cannot. Specifically, Opera seems to have problems with complex DOM-based JavaScript and applying CSSP/2 attributes to select widgets. Couple that with the fact that they take away my address entry field while loading a page, and the little nuisances soon become major annoyances, enough so that I see why they probably can't do much in the market, even if they were to give away the browser for free.
In that case, IE probably uses between 20-30mb itself...but at least 1/2 of that is being shared with the rest of the system. I think the biggest problem Netscape6 has (at least on the Windows side, this wouldn't affect Mac or Unix users), is that its using all of its own libraries for rendering and whatnot.
Netscape pre6.x (i.e., 4.x, 3.x, etc.) used the Native Windwows libraries, which let it also share a good portion of its memory usage to the system..but now it has to generate all of that itself, and that causes a dramatic increase in memory usage. Many people may find themselves in a bind when their system runs slow as crap under NS 6.
On the other hand...this could all just be attributed to debug code thats eating up memory. Lets hope so.
-Julius X
-Julius X
remove "-whatkindofspamdoyoutakemefor-" from email to send
XPCOM is completely independant from Windows' COM. the reason for the file size difference is the compilers. Part of this is that Microsoft simply makes a better compiler on Windows than gcc is on Linux.
But don't be too hard on poor gcc - it alone supports the entire non-windows open source movement. It's a good think WATCOM C is getting free huh? With gcc's front end and Watcom's back end we will run the world. Err, we will rule the world *sooner*.
--
Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
(-1 redundant)
/home/alan/netscape6 as install dir]
./netscape
.mozilla from the mozilla nightly builds that I've been using so I didn't have to reconfigure mail/bookmarks. No idea what is wrong with your peoples systems. Could you provide more information that "I deleted .mozilla and it still crashed what a piece of shit"?
:)
[run installer]
[choose
[choose default options]
[install]
[wait for install to finish]
$ cd netscape6
$
That's all it took for me, on both home and work systems. Even used my
By the way, I've moved to ns6pr3 for a while away from the mozilla nightly builds for the simple reason that I can use ^R now to do things like refresh and reply, and that the PSM comes pre-installed. Don't get me wrong, AOL is evil and the stuff coming from netscape is a pile of crap these days. Mozilla however, rocks, and ns6pr3 has a more "polished" feel to it than the nightly builds. They just need to get rid of: buddy list bs, my netscape button bs, choose keyword bs, and the business/tech/fun/interact bs at the bottom. And the sign up crap that you have to go through get install it.
But other than that I'm impressed
Not really altough this is a shame... Nescape6 PR3 seems to be really unstable on Win98. It crashes all the time... hope they fix these bugs on the next PR..
After using the installer, here's what happens when I run it ...
/usr/local/netscape/netscape
/usr/local/netscape/mozilla-bin
a l/netscape:.:/user/chesnutt/redshift/lib /i686:/usr/local/jdk/lib/i686/green_threads
o ol
e /Cool
[shell}>
/usr/local/netscape/run-mozilla.sh
MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME=/usr/local/netscape
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/netscape/Cool:/usr/loc
LIBPATH=/usr/local/netscape:/usr/local/netscape/C
SHLIB_PATH=/usr/local/netscape:/usr/local/netscap
XPCS_HOME=/usr/local/netscape/Cool
MOZ_PROGRAM=/usr/local/netscape/mozilla-bin
MOZ_TOOLKIT=
moz_debug=0
moz_debugger=
/usr/local/netscape/run-mozilla.sh: line 29: 29551 Segmentation fault $prog ${1+"$@"}
Ooops! And, I don't have time to debug this... back to Netscape 4.72 for me!
I have a 128mb celeron 433 with Windows ME on it (or rather my stepfather does).
I have a screen shot of when I launched IE5.5 and it said " There is not enough free memory to run this program. Quit one or more programs, and then try again. "
How many programs were open? None.
Lars -
I wonder why no Windows 2000 support though? I tried installing it anyway on my 2000 box, and the netscp6.exe just hangs. Have to try a re-install I guess...
This seems odd, since PR2 worked fine on the very same 2000 box (well, about as fine as PR2 ever worked). Anyone know what might have changed in it that it now hiccups in 2000?
It just produces a list of statistics.
IE 80.18%NS 4 16.37%
Other 3.45%What's the point of that? Seems like you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. IE might be the "in" thing now, but what Netscape in 1996? it was probably around 95% market penetration, now it's more like 20%:=) So who's to say that in 2002, the statistics will be the same as they are now? No man. No man can make that kind of prediction. Not even John C. Dvorak.
Everything is but a number spoken by itself.
Did you use the latest nightlies ? ..
I'm posting this from todays nightly (Build ID: 2000100321) and it's lightning fast compared to NS4.73 (running on Linux, Cel333, 192MB)
I also tried it on Windos at school and it performed way better than IE (dunno what version).
Now I just have to get root to install it on the solaris machines
I submitted a bug twice and have no bad experiences with bugreporting.
Moz is definately my choice.
btw, I just love the new Modern skin.
---
Windows DLL's are position independent though. The 80386 design allows PIC code without too much loss, this was certainly due to a desire to allow the chip to be used for Unix with shared libraries.
I suspect the main reason for the smaller size is that by default all symbols in a DLL are local to the library, while by default all symbols are public in a Unix library and thus harder to "strip". They did this by requiring "_dllexport" macros to be stuck before any symbols that can be linked outside the library, in effect adding something that should have been added to C a long time ago... (of course they royally screwed it up so that you cannot write a header file for a DLL without using macros, as the syntax changes for code inside and outside the library!)
Well, i'm sure you would be surprised of the number. :).
Slashdot is, IMHO, the #1 information site for Linux people, even foreigners.
Now that's just a little frenchy(froggy ?)'s opinion, take it for what it's worth
Hey Rob, what about getting a poll on that subject, or may be display some stats around the geographic repartition of the Slashdot user database?
Well I tried getting rid of my .mozilla directory and it STILL doesn't run.
I am so sick and tired of the garbage that comes out of Netscape anymore. Oh, but wait, they're the poor victims of Microsoft's tyranny. So just like everybody else in this country, its not Netscapes fault they can't write working code. Its somebody elses fault.
Uh... stop me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're thinking Mozilla and Netscape 6 are completely different. They're not... NS6 is basically a re-packaged Mozilla. Mozilla is the open-sourced browser produced by the Mozilla team. It's the core of NS6. When you say "NS will have to pull off something special for that to change," you sound as if you're picturing Netscape and Mozilla competing. They won't... they'll be the same product.
Ok.... I'll admit it. I griped previously about the AOL on desktop thing...but what we really carea bout here is the browser.
Big selling point---the "Modern" skin looks much better. Its very smooth and doesn't clash with every other program I'm running. Many people will like it just because it looks good.
The stability is much improved, and its faster than Internet Explorer 5.5 in loading and in downloading web pages. One thing I noticed....I'm just sitting at Slashdot typing this right now, and Netscape 6 is using 34 MB of memory! That's a bit excessive, 2-3x what IE5 uses.
Overall...I think PR3 is a huge improvement over PR2...and could be the best Netscape release to date. I'm actually looking forward to the final release now...as long as they cut down on the memory usage.
I wonder how Mozilla M18 will compare to this.
-Julius X
-Julius X
remove "-whatkindofspamdoyoutakemefor-" from email to send
Too true. What I find funny is the time I went to register for a MS certification test (don't laugh, work gives me more money if I have those and they pay for it) and IE was unable to get past the login. Fired up Netscape and flew through it. Having more than one browser is a good thing at this stage in the game.
I don't want knowledge. I want certainty. - Law, David Bowie
The same might happen with PR3 where something nice got into the trunk in the last fortnight but not the branch. However, early signs indicate that this is a good release. Yes, it has problems but mostly they seem to fall into the cosmetic and minor with workaround categories.
At the end of the day people can use whichever version they feel happiest with. Both browsers benefit from the presence of their sibling - Netscape 6.0 benefits from the peer review and standards compliance of Mozilla, Mozilla benefits from the mass testing and Full Circle feedback reports of Netscape 6.0.
I just got the same behaviour on my Slackware 7.1 box...
Shame really, I'm really looking forward to being able to replace Netscape 4.x...
Cheers,
Tim
It's official. Most of you are morons.
They have already branched. M18 will be released from the trunk (as opposed to the NS 6 branch) sometime later this week.
Gerv
Aren't Java Server Pages, well on the server? Unless I'm mistaken, they generate an html page that is sent to the browser. Maybe it's your page design that doesn't work.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
With the creation of the mozilla-gtk widget many new mozilla-likes have sprouted up, but i think Skipstone may be one of the greatest of lightweight browsers. (Of course a full mozilla/netscape session is needed for SSL or other features)
isomerica.net | Foonetic IRC
[jos@jasmine netscape]$ ./netscape ./run-mozilla.sh ./mozilla-bin
MOZILLA_FIVE_HOME=.
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=./Cool:.::/opt/wine/lib
LIBPATH=.:./Cool
SHLIB_PATH=.:./Cool
XPCS_HOME=./Cool
MOZ_PROGRAM=./mozilla-bin
MOZ_TOOLKIT=
moz_debug=0
moz_debugger= ./run-mozilla.sh: line 29: 725 Segmentation fault $prog ${1+"$@"}
[jos@jasmine netscape]$
guess it has to do with the fact I run RH7.0, this thing only has glibc-2.1.92.
Maybe I'll just build a nightly from source...
If you're smart you'll have been running nightly builds instead of the last milestone, and none of the massive improvements will be a surprise. The 11th hour inclusion of Java on Linux is a pleasant surprise, I've been following bugzilla (53907) and was hoping they could make it. So - I can run a few applets now, but the ones I tried so far (melange chat, local library) either didn't completely work, or didn't work at all. Sigh. Back to 4.75 once again for functionality and pathetic style sheet renditions, or over to the wifes NT box for the IE java experience (the best I've seen). But this thing is on a roll now, and it's getting better and better and better.....
I was under the assumption that apart from making Netscape WORK, one of the goals of the mozilla project was to reduce the size of the code base significantly (I heard down to the size of a floppy). Is this no longer the case? Or is there 14 megs of debugging pre-release info (even though I didn't install the quality feedback agent)?
This is not a troll or flame, I'm just wondering what happened to those ideals.
Actually.. the reason why the mozilla nightlies have ballooned in size is because they now include three themes (theme probably isn't the best word for them, because they change how it works too), which take ~2-3M compressed. It has not been a result of feature bloat, just more optional (or not! ;) extras.
http://linuxftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english /6_PR3/u nix /linux22/sea/netscape-i686-pc-linux-gnu-sea.tar.gz works too.. no spoof this time.
OK, the is next thing technically is not as a browser, but using konquerer to try to download later snapshots of KDE 2 from ftp.kde.org, well it crashed it. Repeatedly. I was trying to download all the relative source tarballs by selecting htem all and dragging them to my local/src directory. Worked perfectly with kfm, but crashed with konquerer.
When I switched from Netscape 4 to IE it was because Netscape seemed to be slower and crash more. Of course, IE seems to crash just as much now. If I'm stuck with Windows should I bother downloading it?
OK ... try this instead of 'apt'.
/usr/local/src
m ozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz
........................."
/usr/local/mozbak
/usr/local/mozilla /usr/local/mozbak
........................."
/usr/local/src/package /usr/local/mozilla
It's somewhat specific and there
is no error handling at all but it
does the trick
#!/bin/sh
cd
echo "Fetching latest build from ftp.mozilla.org"
ncftpget ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest/
echo "OK got it!"
sleep 1
echo "Extracting
sleep 1
tar zxf mozilla-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz
rm -r
mv
echo "Backing up old Mozilla"
sleep 1
echo "Installing
cp -r
echo "OK we're done, restart Mozilla for latest version"
CC
Intellectual Property IS Theft.
The mozilla nightly builds have become remarkably usable in recent weeks. I've been impressed. I'm interested to see how this public beta turns out. My non-geek friends didnt seem to like Netscape's last beta. Then again, I don't think anyone did.
ebw
When you follow their download link you end up getting their hideous installer that connects to their site and pulls things down for you (if you're lucky) and then tries to put them in the wrong place).
You know the one:
'Thank you for downloading Netscape 6, you are held in a queue and will be attended to shortly....your download is important to us... please hold...if you have a numeric kepad press * now....etc...'
It still doesn't play The William Tell Overture in four-part square-wave harmony though, so it's not all bad...
XPCOM is completely independant from Windows' COM. the reason for the file size difference is the compilers. Part of this is that Microsoft simply makes a better compiler on Windows than gcc is on Linux. The other part is that gcc and ld do not properly truly unused strip symbols from binaries when a link is done.
.so will be 30-60% larger than the windows .dll.
try it - take a large set of XP code, and build a dll on each platform. the linux
.... which GUI mail client has IMAP-SSL support? It has to be integrated, stunnel is not acceptable. And tkbiff doesn't have a mail read/write interface ;)
:(
Because _that_ is what is currently tying me to Netscape... And 4.75 is quite buggy on my 2.4 kernel
Jes' checkin..
Your Working Boy,
I am posting this from NS6PR3. I had a similar problem with core dumps (mentioned in other posts). For me, the fix was to download and install the recommended distribution and not the custom or full. Both custom and full seem to have problems with dynamically linked libraries.
FYI: I am on a Mandrake 7.1 system.
-- GWF
The Computational Beauty of Nature
I haven't tried NS6, but i've been keeping a close eye on the nightly builds of Mozilla. With a few speed and stability enhancements I think Mozilla will become the de-facto standard browser for Linux. NS will have to pull off something special for that to change. On the windows front, Mozilla is going to have more of a struggle against MSIE (which, funnily enough, is about the only MS product I can tolerate). How NS will fit into this battle is anyone's guess, but it should be interesting finding out.
Somehow I don't think this is the best thing Netscape should be doing. I recall a lot of people complaining that NSpr2 was 'too early' -- not ready enough for any kind of release -- even though it was released concurrently with Mozilla M17. Remember, this version is being dropped even though M18 hasn't come out yet.
As a 'business' decision I couldn't really care less about Netscape as a company. Politically though, NS6 is the browser to watch for for a lot of people, not Mozilla, and a lot of people are mistaking NS6prx with 'the new Netscape'. And they're getting scared off. As a webdesigner, I do not want to use MSIE but it's slowly getting so I have to use it more and more often - both professionally and personaly.
jedrek
-- polish ccs mirror
Got the same results this morning. Had the same thing happen with the last 2 Mozilla builds.
Windows version works just fine (or at least as well as IE 5.5, which is not that great).
Microsoft's VP of Customer Service is Helen Waite. If you are having problems with their products go to Helen Waite.
Please moderate that up to 5, Informative!! eom
It says the same for me on both my Windoze and Linux boxes :-/
'Man about to bite dog' is not news.
Now I'm not exactly a bug finding wizard but in the first five minutes I already noticed two big, obvious ones (at least with the Linux version):
1) Go to www.onion.com and notice that the popup javascript windows (horoscope, etc. in the top left corner) don't even appear as links, let alone work.
2) Try navigating around using the back button to return to a page - it tends to go back two instead of one page.
Not too impressive in my book....it looks 'real purty' but I'd rather have it work.
In Soviet Russia, hot grits put YOU down THEIR pants.
Allright, cool© I apologize for misunderstanding© It looked like your post was yet another "bash anything that isn't part of KDE2" post© There are too many of them these days© Anyways, yeah you should have been a bit more clear, but I realize that you probably didn't know you'd get modded up so fast :
I was also unclear, in that I stupidly assumed that when you said "Netscape", you mean Mozilla which I use¥almost every day¥I would use it constantly, if it wern't for the friggin' auto-focus feature[bug]© And yeah, the latest nightlies are bloody amazing :
Dave
'Round the firewall,
Out the modem,
Through the router,
Down the wire,
Barclay family motto:
Aut agere aut mori.
(Either action or death.)
It tries to find a components.reg file, doesn't find it and crash, without any error message.
Back to Konqueror.
(Which handles even my online banking since yesterdays CVS!!! https, java, javascript at once!!)
Maybe a kgecko html kpart will one day be useful, but I doubt it if I look at the quality and development speed of khtml.
Moritz
Using PR3 now.
Very pretty.
Quite small to download and install.
Skinnable.
Slightly better DOM and Javascript rendering than 4.72.
All of which is good.
But, most importantly, it's _STILL_ not as quick as IE. Pages seem to take twice as long (not as long as in 4.7 or in any of the Mozilla builds though) to load in PR3 than in IE5.
Sorry, it pains me to say it, but Microsoft STILL have the better browser.
--
jambo
system.admin.without.a.clue
-- js.
First, yes, it is fast. I'm running it right now under Windows and it's faster than 4.74 by about 5 times (no, that's not a benchmark, it's subjective), and it's even faster than IE 4, which was the winner for speed for a while. It makes HotJava look like a Chevy Nova.
But while it is fast, there are a few things that are really annoying. Most of them you can disable, but some of them just keep reappearing. The My Sidebar thing, first of all, is bloatware, but some people may like it. So when I went to View and saw that I could make it disappear, I was very happy. And then, two clicks later, I hit the search button to see what it would do, and the sidebar popped up again. I turned it off, closed Netscape, and opened it again and it was back. All the built in buttons return the sidebar.
In addition, the built-in buttons on the bottom aren't removable. No way to get rid of them. And no way to customize them, at least that I can find (it may be in preferences, but I haven't looked).
See the problem with ui bloat is that everybody wants something different. Which is why you have to make it customizable. Like the Home button, which I miss and can't get the thing to return. Yes, I know not everyone wants it, but I do. Which is why I like customizability.
Then there's the fact that I can choose which search engine I want to be the default. Now that's a nice touch.
And JavaScript, notoriously slow and unstable, is now faster and more stable. Yes, it still crashes, yes it still freezes, and yes, it's still slow. But it's better. Maybe we'll get there in a decade or two...
So overall, it's better than Netscape 4, but I'm not quite happy yet. I think I'll go play with it under Linux.
Jeff
Netscape 6 is a full-featured yet lean browser that bucks the trend in software bloat. Netscape 6 was developed from the ground up to be as small as possible while still providing a rich feature set.
It's always amazing how differently geeks and marketing people see things.
ebw
Not much more to add. I'm running RedHat Linux, using the 2.2.17 kernel, have the nightly build of Mozilla installed. I downloaded and installed the netscape preview into /usr/local/netscape, cd'ed to that dir and then did ./netscape It tries to start and then after about 2 seconds just replies with a message saying that it has crashed. I installed the second preview release of netscape some time ago and it worked just fine, no problems at all.
You are currently using:
Netscape Communicator 5.0
English language, 5.0 (X11; en-US, Weak or Unknown Encryption
-- Oh Well
I'm trying Opera version 4 at the moment. Ok, so it's not free, one has to pay for it, but it has every thing I need and a very elegant MDI based interface for multiple browser windows. It does mail and manages downloads as well. The trouble with netscape is that the installer can't connect to netscapes site because I'm behind a WinSock proxy server and can't authenticate with it. Why don't netscape also provide a full download?
C'mon already.
You're just reaffirming everything Siggy says in the IRC log
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Blazemail rocks!
sweet mother, I didn't think it was legit until I got into it...Where's the rest? I'd love to see what Sig 11 asked during the last "5 min"
--------
-------
"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
have a version with the nicks preserved?
--------
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"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
Just downloaded it and installed it fine. No probs. However, upon launching it takes 6seconds of CPU time, 13mb of ram and just sits there, doing nothing. As much as I like the binocular splash screen, I think 30mins of downloading just to have that set as my background is a little much... Maybe they could do that without taking so much ram at the same time?! Now where did I leave M17...
-- Ego is nothing without Arrogance to back it up! --
This is definatly the best version, even better then the nightly Mozilla binaries for Win32. Fast, clean interface and quick install. The Windows Installer was actually nice and didn't require a reboot or anything. It also imported my mozilla cache/cookies and everything just fine. I hope these 2 browsers don't split up very much when they developers break the tree. It works great, using it to post this message. Very nice interface, love the new scrollbars and the integration with the netscape websites and instant messanger is a nice feature. I don't understand how that is going backwards. Anyhow, i recommend it. Works with my oracle system as well, and it appears the security manager works now with all my https sites. congrats netscape, nice looking product! This should have been PR1 :)
I had something like this when running the Mozilla nightlies. You need to run it once as root.
Then install either Mac OS X and wait ~ 4 - 5 month until someone ports it or install linux for powerPCs now.
There is just no excuse!
Moritz
Remember, JavaScript is a half-valid excuse for programmers to make uncompiled work. Sure it's cross-platform, but it's SLOW!
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
Okay, I know you're not all kernel hackers and such reading this, and perhaps someone out there makes websites.
my question is: how do you enable the RDF sidebar menu to show itself in any of the Netscape 6 pr releases? I just created an RDF document for one of my sites, and it won't show. Neither will any other site's RDF data. I recall an older Mozilla milestone release that would show it, but the pr releases don't seem to, even though RDF is touted on Netscape's own press releases.
Is there something simple I'm missing?
I haven't tried NSpr3 yet, but M17 seemed to be doing just fine. I'm hoping in the next 3/4 months we might finally see a full release. Netscape have pretty much lost the hearts and minds of a lot of Windows users, but for Linux/Unix people, if Mozilla doesn't happen they'll be a real gap the market.
-- Hob - Java Spectrum Emulator
if you want the complete tarball monster instead of the stupid little 62+k installer...
2 /sea/
ftp://ftp2. net scape.com/pub/netscape6/english/6_PR3/unix/linux2
-'fester
On the Windows platform, Mozilla's still quite small. It's only on Mac and Linux that it gets huge.
I think this has to do with XPCOM. For some reason, when the Mozilla team decided to do a cross-platform component-based architecture, they made it in such a way that it conveniently wraps around Windows' COM stuff. That means they don't have to include it on Windows, which trims out quite a lot of stuff.
Hey, how else could you explain why the Windows Mozilla downloads are a full third smaller than the Mac or Linux ones?
----------
Wow... As soon as I heard of pr3, I instinctively went and downloaded it. I didn't really have any expectations of it (cause IMHO, the other two pr's were barely usable, at best), BUT IT ACTUALLY WORKS. And, better yet, it kicks IE5.X's ass for speed. WAY TO GO NETSCAPE!
Just think.. finally, a version of netscape to be *proud* of using.
I know there seems to be a massive outcry that the old Mozilla skin seemed to annoy a lot of people, I personally found it quite professional looking - it was a very minimalist aesthetic, and the interlaced images came out as very professional looking.
I kno nobody seems to agree with me, but IMHO the new modern skin seems to fall into the `soft gradients / brushed metal' aesthetic which I find well and truly overdone.
I find the new throbber quite impressive for such a low color pallette though. While this makes Netscape very good looking on 256 color boxes, producing an additional high color version might be a better idea.
I had to delete my .mozilla directory, otherwise the thing core dumps. Also, the installer does not seem to work through a proxy, but the entire download is available from their ftp site.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
You forgot:
* KDE2 [due 16th October]
* GNOME 1.2 [due sometime this month]
* Galeon 1.0 [Due Novemberish]
* OMS [the Open Source DVD player] 0.1, due Real Soon Now
* LinDVD 1.0 [released to manufacturing a couple of weeks ago, avaliable Real Soon Now too]
* Sonique [due around end of year / start of next]
* StarOffice Open Source Release / Staroffice 6 [13th Oct]
Microsoft Internet Explorer (a non-Netscape browser) 5.0
English language, Windows 98, Weak or Unknown Encryption
Upgrade Available!
Netscape Communicator 4.75
English language, Windows 98, Strong 128-bit Encryption
Thats the coolest greeting I've ever gotten from a web page.
Cunning linguists