Even commercial software sensationalizes every so often. Take BlackICE for example. Back when I was a netadm at a Unv I used to frequently get calls, emails and even some visits from students and campus faculty/staff about an "attack" on their computers. Inevitably they'd show me a BlackICE log file warning them about some hacking attempt that involved a ping. Yeah, a ping. Good old ICMP Echo. That's real dangerous. It wasn't even a ping flood; just a single damned ping. Then there were the warnings from SMB packets on the network that were sent out from one of our servers or someone else's desktop. Stupid crap like that. I assume the BlackICE marketing folks want the users to really think they need the BlackICE products in order to survive on the 'Net. That's the onyl reason I can think of to annoy the users like that (and thus me).
I once read an article about a guy who put his entire home directory in CVS. This strikes me as a possible solution to clutter. Need a directory to work on a bunch of test images? Create a new CVS module and stuff the files in that. I like the idea although I'm not good enough with CVS to pull something like that off. I'd like to try it someday though. Does anyone have any links to articles, HOWTOs, guides, etc on using CVS or RCS to keep files and directories organized?
This just made me think about music. Doesn't the music industry crack down on people who publicly perform their works without paying extra for the right to do so? Even if for example they've already purchased the CD? There's a group that sues restraunts for having music playing over the in-restraunt speakers and not paying a tremendous amount for it. I can't think of what they're called though. I keep wanting to say the ASPCA but I know that's not right.;-) Anyhow, it just made me think of that.
I have a HP 8550N at my house (soon to be DN). I noticed, thanks to ZoneAlarm, that my HP printer software phones home to some IP address via port 80 every so often. Next time it happens I'll write down the IP. My thought is that perhaps it's checking in for me, thus I don't have to register my S/N. If they log my S/N, IP and timestamp then that's all a entity would need in theory to identify me via the courts (or via an "In the Fight Against Terrorism" letter) that bypasses the Judicial branch.
What about a science advisor to the Bush Administrator? That's got to be the worst job in science unless you also hold a degree in fair-weather theology.
I don't see any membership level listed in the I2 bylaws that would allow even a collaborative level of membership within I2. All of the current corporate members have something technical or educational to offer to the membership. The MPAA doesn't as far as I can tell. In fact it want sa regulatory voice within the oranization. Article I, Section 2 of the bylaws prohibit all non-Regular Members from having voting rights. Unless of course the I2 Board of Trustees rolls over and lets the MPAA in. Grrr...
More or less. I don't call it divining. To me that implies some sort of spiritual nonsense had something to do with it. I've seen it done (and did it myself) with metallic rods made of both brass and heavy coat hangers. We actually did that in school when I was a kid. Worked like a champ. People also do it with the forks of various types of wood. While reading up on it today to counter anti-witchings folks I came across an article in I believe the Seattle Times that talked about witching and listing numerous objects used to witch wells including keychains and string with a metal nut on the end. While I can't vouch for those unusual items I can say that metal rods work just fine and I've heard the same about some sticks from reliable acuqaintences.
Many major cities pour concrete intersections and 30-40 yards of the approaching lanes. Why? Because the constant action of the vehicles braking causes asphalt to bunch up and push towards the intersection. Think about it as if you're running through your house on hardwood floors. You run up to a rug on the hardwood floors going full steam and jump on the rug planting your feet and not taking any more steps. Much of the energy from your momentum is transferred into the rug and causes the rug to skate across the floor with your on it, burning up the energy as friction between the rug and floor. Concrete is much more resilient to sudden and forecful braking. The energy from the momentum of the car remains in the car and is burned up in friction caused by the braking system. I watched a fascinating epidodes of Modern Marvels a month or two ago about airport runways. It was fascinating. It never dawned on me what kind of stresses a runway is under but it does make sense. I never have understood why the wheels of a large commericial jet aren't spun up to approximate speed prior to touchdown so as to not wear out the tires. This would I expect be beneficial to the runway as well.
BTW, few folks have any idea what we've just talked about until they see an old brick street such as the one in my 125-year old hometown (teeny tiny town). The bricks that were originall laid in perfectly straight lines are now in widely curving arches each and every place where people commonly brake on mainstreet such as each intersecution, in front of the post office where people brake before pulling in and parking, etc. It's really fascinating to look at. I'd have to say that in some places the brick rows have been skewed up to 20 feet or more out of whack thanks to the braking. When you see something like that you really start to get a grasp for the forces at work. There's also the highway that runs by town, US 160. 8 miles to our east is a town with a quarry that produces mainly aggregate (gravel). The westbound lane on that road from that town on west past my hometown is horrific. The ruts in the asphalt are deep. Many don't even notice the ruts until it rains. Then you have too extremely deep channels of water in the westbound lanes (tracks) to contend with. You also notice it in the winter during a blowing snow, one of those really dry snows that blow across the road and fill in any low spots or cracks but stick to nothing else. The westbound lane tracks are completely filled with 2-4 inches of snow (flat with the road around it) whereas the eastbound lane is as clean as can be. The steady stream of loaded gravel trucks heading west have seriously warped that road. Seeing that road will convince anyone of how much damage a truck like that can cause.
I think there goal here is to leak the story we're reading now that people will be widly against. Then once they've whipped people up to a frenzy and they're willing to do anything to stop this from happening the California Governor's office will propose a solution that's less draconian than the one they leaked. Of course the CA residents would have been against it if they'd come out with it first but they're in favor of it after being whipped into a frenzy over the horrible ideas that were leaked. Make sense? So our real goal here should be to figure out what the actual bill will read like and keep people focused on the ball and not fall for the CA Governor's office pump fake.
Re:This is interesting...
on
Internet Hunting
·
· Score: 2, Insightful
I think he's referring not to the small ma and pa farms out there but the hog equivalent of Tyson. I'm sure the big hog lots pack them in like chickens. It certainly wouldn't suprise me. I'm a country boy too and I get annoyed when people level accusations at farmers and ranchers in general when it's really the Tysons of this country that they have a beef with (pun intended).
Scents and camoflauge for hunting is as old as time itself. What did the original poster think our ancestors did 200 years ago? Go running into a fields on foot with a spear while screaming and hollering and trying to pick off a large wild animal as it runs past them? While Hollywood may depict those people like that sometimes it certainly isn't the truth. They were masters of their craft. They could stalk an animal like their life depended on it because, well, it did. Usuing urine from the females of a species as an attractant has been used longer than recorded history.
I think most handicapped folks wouldn't want to hunt via computer. Although I suppose I can't say that about a quadriplegic because I've never personally known any. They might want to do it that way because that can't find any other way to do it. Still other folks with less inhibiting handicaps will venture more for a traditional hunt but with the aides of mechanical transportation. That's quite common actually.
We've actually seen some elk here in Kansas. The fish and game folks won't acknowledge it. They still haven't acknowledged that we have mountain lions and water moccasins either and they've been here for decades, if not longer. My mother saw an elk many years ago when I was a kid. Another more notable sighting was only a few weeks ago. I'l love to hunt for one someday. It would be worth it I think. I'd hate to hit one in a car though. Whitetail deer are bad enough. Hitting and elk would be like hitting a moose!
That's interesting. I don't believe I've heard of such a device but I'll look into it. I'm always looking for useful tools.
Verizon probably didn't want to have to get each and every homeowner to let them into their home (actually under their home since there aren't basements around there) to use the tone generator. That's a unique idea though. If you could use the properties of water to carry a sound wave, perhaps it could be detectable down the line. Interesting idea! Witching the lines would probably have worked for those contractors. It's pretty common. It's been around a long long time.
Good grief. See, that's why I'd hate to live in a city with people that think they can control what I do on my own property. If have a tree in my yard that I want to take down I'll damned well take it down. It reminds me of the bored people that create these neighborhood committees (I can't think of the phrase right now) that tries to establish and enforce a dresscode for your property; what color your roof can be, what kind of grass can make up your lawn, the size and shape of flowerbeds in front of your house, yadda, yadda, yadda. Basically the bored busy-body of yesteryear has been reborn to start and run these annoying committees. There were a number of news stories about them prior to the elections when they tried to prevent people from putting political signs in their front yards. They ended up getting their asses handed to them in court for trying to stifle political free speech. Yowzers.
I'm quite familiar with James Randi. He's a skeptic about anything that will draw attention to himself and thus increase his rates on the lecture circuits. Not a very convincing arguement. I'd compare it to the DMA talking about email "marketers.";-)
To raise public awareness of these issues, the Foundation offers a $1,000,000 prize to any person or persons who can demonstrate any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability of any kind under mutually agreed upon scientific conditions.
Well witching has nothing to do with psychic, supernatural or paranormal abilities regardless of what the name implies. I'm sure at some point in the future we'll realize that it's simply some low level magnetic field from our own body that reacts with that of the water/sewer/power/telephone line. It'll be a really simple answer and we'll all kick ourselves for not seeing it sooner I'm sure. Well witching has been around for an estimated 6-8000 years (depicted by wall paintings in an African cave). There are certainly nuts out there that do it. The ones who think they go into some sort of "alpha" mental state are rather odd. Still it's not possible to discount the successes. How about I refer you to the 10 year study done by the University of Munich. Here's the library index reference if you'd like to locate a copy:
Betz, Hans-Dieter: Unconventional Water Detection - Field Test of the Dowsing Technique in Dry Zones. 2nd Edition: ISBN 3-88085-489-0
James Randi was part of the test you site in your link. I wouldn't consider a test by him to be objective. He has a financial stake in disproving dowsing. His tests to locate chunks of gold and brass was most amusing. I'm not aware of any dowsers ever claiming to be a substitute for metal detectors. When was the last time you saw a dowser on a beach hunting for lost watches and change? When was the last time you saw some guy with a metal detector doing the same (assuming you spend time on a beach of coure)?
Like I said earlier, I don't know the science behind it but I'm sure there is science behind it. James Randi's insistence that dowsing is nothing more than an "idiomotor reaction" is certainly the ostrich approach to answering the question. "If I can't prove it with my science then it must be a scam." It's been proven to exist well beyond the laws of chance many times by people more reputable than James Randi and E. H. Boudreau. Eventually someone will figure out how it actually works from the scientific perspective. There's been questions in the past that science couldn't answer. Those that offered answers, whether they would be proven right or not, were often branded as nut cases by conventional wisdom. Dare I say the world isn't flat, it's round? Over time, though, science has answered those questions. At one point and time our ancestors thought Native Americans were nuts for chewing on the bark of Willow trees or Snake Root. Science proved what their medicinal values really are and now those same Native Americans look pretty damned smart. Give it time. Science unfettered by politics and unbiased by money will answer this question too.
The solution I like is to lay in a couple cheap pairs of copper wire with the line. It could be anything like old residential telephone wiring or recommissioned Cat3 pulled during an office remodel. Anything like that would work. Loop one end (preferrably the unaccessible end). Then you can hook up a $40 tone generator to the pair and use basic telecom tools to find the line in the ground. Slick as hell.
My uncle is very good at it. He witched the well for my folks' new house. He tracked 3 springs coming out of the hill behind their house and staked out a spot where they all converged. Sure enough we dug down I believe it was 6 feet and hit all three springs. Water was shooting out the sides in three 1" streams like a garden hose. We hit bedrock at 14 feet and that was their well. Excellent job. There's a couple here in my state that made the news 6 or so months ago for witching unmarked graves in an abandoned cemetary. Apparently someone thought it was weird and called the news station. Nothing weird about it. It works like a champ. The only time it's reported to not work so well is if you have large veins of minerals or a high ground water table. Or of course if you have an absolute clutter of existing lines in the way.
Personally I'm a fan of burying any line in the ground with a couple pairs of cheap copper. It can be as inexpensive as Cat3 ripped from some old office building during a remodeling. Splice it together and tape it up. Then when you need to reliably locate the line dig up either end and hook up a tone generator to it. That's a snap to locate with no so expensive hardware. I wish more people did that.
However, in the article, the county is also complaining that the contractors aren't telling what happened when they dig up a line. That's a big problem.
I read it but I must have overlooked that part. Yeah, that would be a big problem if they're doing that. Definitely irresponsible. Perhaps they have too many grunts and not enough foremen on the job sites. That might account for it. Maybe.
Sounds like a nice town. I'd love to see one like that sometime. Buried everything must be very aesthetically pleasing.
Really, you need to prevent where possible, but hits are going to be common.
Yeah, it's expected. Really you can't dig in any industrialized city and not expect to hit something. That's just the way it works. Like we netadms always say, there's nothing better for finding buried fiber than a backhoe. Network went down? Blame it on a backhoe interrupt.:-)
I never have understood what was so difficult about RTFA for the majority of Slashdotters. I can certainly understand not RTFA is the server hosting it is Slashdotted. That makes sense of course. I don't think that was the case here though. Anyhow, the county's maps are seriously borked. Verizon does have the maps of course but they aren't exactly useful. It's basically Russian Roulette with a backhoe. The maps for the older neighborhoods show lines in the wrong spots. It's hard to not dig something up that's supposed to be over there *points 6 feet away*. The newer neighborhoods use PVC for water and sewer lines. This is what's used nowadays but it's extremely easy to break. PVC breaks are expected quite frankly. You have figure them into to every bid. If anyone is to be blamed it should be the county for maintaining piss poor maps.
Don't you really mean Hillsborough County has idiots keeping their records straight? You can't hardly fault the contractors for hitting lines that the counties own official maps say are are somewhere else. Maybe you Hillsborough County Floridians should vote more wisely and elect someone that will hire compotent staff to keep their important records straight. If they can't keep a simple set of maps up to date, what makes you think they can keep your property tax, deeds, and titles straight?
It certainly would have been better for PR. It would have made a more impressive and less expensive proof-of-concept to the powers that be. They should have gone to the Midwest for their trial. Ohio or Iowa perhaps. Oklahoma or the Kansas City area would have worked well too.
Look ma, another person who didn't RTFA! Fancy that.
The county's maps locates many of the older lines in the wrong spots. It's pretty hard to miss a line that not supposed to be there in the first place. The newer installations use PVC (common) which is exceptionally easy to break, even with an accurate map. That's expected. There isn't a cost-effective way around that. Fortunately that only affects one installation at a time.
You must have forgetten to RTFA. The counties maps show most of the older lines in incorrect spots. How do you avoid a line that's not supposed to be there? You can't. The newer water and sewer installations utilize PVC which as anyone with any experience will tell you happens to be very easy to break, even with an accurate map. The blame here rests on the county's shoulders. They are the incompotent ones who couldn't keep their records straight and show lines where they actually aren't.
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Even commercial software sensationalizes every so often. Take BlackICE for example. Back when I was a netadm at a Unv I used to frequently get calls, emails and even some visits from students and campus faculty/staff about an "attack" on their computers. Inevitably they'd show me a BlackICE log file warning them about some hacking attempt that involved a ping. Yeah, a ping. Good old ICMP Echo. That's real dangerous. It wasn't even a ping flood; just a single damned ping. Then there were the warnings from SMB packets on the network that were sent out from one of our servers or someone else's desktop. Stupid crap like that. I assume the BlackICE marketing folks want the users to really think they need the BlackICE products in order to survive on the 'Net. That's the onyl reason I can think of to annoy the users like that (and thus me).
I once read an article about a guy who put his entire home directory in CVS. This strikes me as a possible solution to clutter. Need a directory to work on a bunch of test images? Create a new CVS module and stuff the files in that. I like the idea although I'm not good enough with CVS to pull something like that off. I'd like to try it someday though. Does anyone have any links to articles, HOWTOs, guides, etc on using CVS or RCS to keep files and directories organized?
ASCAP. That sounds about right. I like ASPCA better though. ;-)
This just made me think about music. Doesn't the music industry crack down on people who publicly perform their works without paying extra for the right to do so? Even if for example they've already purchased the CD? There's a group that sues restraunts for having music playing over the in-restraunt speakers and not paying a tremendous amount for it. I can't think of what they're called though. I keep wanting to say the ASPCA but I know that's not right. ;-) Anyhow, it just made me think of that.
I have a HP 8550N at my house (soon to be DN). I noticed, thanks to ZoneAlarm, that my HP printer software phones home to some IP address via port 80 every so often. Next time it happens I'll write down the IP. My thought is that perhaps it's checking in for me, thus I don't have to register my S/N. If they log my S/N, IP and timestamp then that's all a entity would need in theory to identify me via the courts (or via an "In the Fight Against Terrorism" letter) that bypasses the Judicial branch.
What about a science advisor to the Bush Administrator? That's got to be the worst job in science unless you also hold a degree in fair-weather theology.
I don't see any membership level listed in the I2 bylaws that would allow even a collaborative level of membership within I2. All of the current corporate members have something technical or educational to offer to the membership. The MPAA doesn't as far as I can tell. In fact it want sa regulatory voice within the oranization. Article I, Section 2 of the bylaws prohibit all non-Regular Members from having voting rights. Unless of course the I2 Board of Trustees rolls over and lets the MPAA in. Grrr...
More or less. I don't call it divining. To me that implies some sort of spiritual nonsense had something to do with it. I've seen it done (and did it myself) with metallic rods made of both brass and heavy coat hangers. We actually did that in school when I was a kid. Worked like a champ. People also do it with the forks of various types of wood. While reading up on it today to counter anti-witchings folks I came across an article in I believe the Seattle Times that talked about witching and listing numerous objects used to witch wells including keychains and string with a metal nut on the end. While I can't vouch for those unusual items I can say that metal rods work just fine and I've heard the same about some sticks from reliable acuqaintences.
BTW, few folks have any idea what we've just talked about until they see an old brick street such as the one in my 125-year old hometown (teeny tiny town). The bricks that were originall laid in perfectly straight lines are now in widely curving arches each and every place where people commonly brake on mainstreet such as each intersecution, in front of the post office where people brake before pulling in and parking, etc. It's really fascinating to look at. I'd have to say that in some places the brick rows have been skewed up to 20 feet or more out of whack thanks to the braking. When you see something like that you really start to get a grasp for the forces at work. There's also the highway that runs by town, US 160. 8 miles to our east is a town with a quarry that produces mainly aggregate (gravel). The westbound lane on that road from that town on west past my hometown is horrific. The ruts in the asphalt are deep. Many don't even notice the ruts until it rains. Then you have too extremely deep channels of water in the westbound lanes (tracks) to contend with. You also notice it in the winter during a blowing snow, one of those really dry snows that blow across the road and fill in any low spots or cracks but stick to nothing else. The westbound lane tracks are completely filled with 2-4 inches of snow (flat with the road around it) whereas the eastbound lane is as clean as can be. The steady stream of loaded gravel trucks heading west have seriously warped that road. Seeing that road will convince anyone of how much damage a truck like that can cause.
I think there goal here is to leak the story we're reading now that people will be widly against. Then once they've whipped people up to a frenzy and they're willing to do anything to stop this from happening the California Governor's office will propose a solution that's less draconian than the one they leaked. Of course the CA residents would have been against it if they'd come out with it first but they're in favor of it after being whipped into a frenzy over the horrible ideas that were leaked. Make sense? So our real goal here should be to figure out what the actual bill will read like and keep people focused on the ball and not fall for the CA Governor's office pump fake.
I think he's referring not to the small ma and pa farms out there but the hog equivalent of Tyson. I'm sure the big hog lots pack them in like chickens. It certainly wouldn't suprise me. I'm a country boy too and I get annoyed when people level accusations at farmers and ranchers in general when it's really the Tysons of this country that they have a beef with (pun intended).
I think most handicapped folks wouldn't want to hunt via computer. Although I suppose I can't say that about a quadriplegic because I've never personally known any. They might want to do it that way because that can't find any other way to do it. Still other folks with less inhibiting handicaps will venture more for a traditional hunt but with the aides of mechanical transportation. That's quite common actually.
We've actually seen some elk here in Kansas. The fish and game folks won't acknowledge it. They still haven't acknowledged that we have mountain lions and water moccasins either and they've been here for decades, if not longer. My mother saw an elk many years ago when I was a kid. Another more notable sighting was only a few weeks ago. I'l love to hunt for one someday. It would be worth it I think. I'd hate to hit one in a car though. Whitetail deer are bad enough. Hitting and elk would be like hitting a moose!
I don't know about your but I don't like eating Polaroids. They give me gas. They also make some pretty poor summer sausages, IMHO.
Verizon probably didn't want to have to get each and every homeowner to let them into their home (actually under their home since there aren't basements around there) to use the tone generator. That's a unique idea though. If you could use the properties of water to carry a sound wave, perhaps it could be detectable down the line. Interesting idea! Witching the lines would probably have worked for those contractors. It's pretty common. It's been around a long long time.
Good grief. See, that's why I'd hate to live in a city with people that think they can control what I do on my own property. If have a tree in my yard that I want to take down I'll damned well take it down. It reminds me of the bored people that create these neighborhood committees (I can't think of the phrase right now) that tries to establish and enforce a dresscode for your property; what color your roof can be, what kind of grass can make up your lawn, the size and shape of flowerbeds in front of your house, yadda, yadda, yadda. Basically the bored busy-body of yesteryear has been reborn to start and run these annoying committees. There were a number of news stories about them prior to the elections when they tried to prevent people from putting political signs in their front yards. They ended up getting their asses handed to them in court for trying to stifle political free speech. Yowzers.
To raise public awareness of these issues, the Foundation offers a $1,000,000 prize to any person or persons who can demonstrate any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability of any kind under mutually agreed upon scientific conditions. Well witching has nothing to do with psychic, supernatural or paranormal abilities regardless of what the name implies. I'm sure at some point in the future we'll realize that it's simply some low level magnetic field from our own body that reacts with that of the water/sewer/power/telephone line. It'll be a really simple answer and we'll all kick ourselves for not seeing it sooner I'm sure. Well witching has been around for an estimated 6-8000 years (depicted by wall paintings in an African cave). There are certainly nuts out there that do it. The ones who think they go into some sort of "alpha" mental state are rather odd. Still it's not possible to discount the successes. How about I refer you to the 10 year study done by the University of Munich. Here's the library index reference if you'd like to locate a copy:
Betz, Hans-Dieter: Unconventional Water Detection - Field Test of the Dowsing Technique in Dry Zones. 2nd Edition: ISBN 3-88085-489-0
James Randi was part of the test you site in your link. I wouldn't consider a test by him to be objective. He has a financial stake in disproving dowsing. His tests to locate chunks of gold and brass was most amusing. I'm not aware of any dowsers ever claiming to be a substitute for metal detectors. When was the last time you saw a dowser on a beach hunting for lost watches and change? When was the last time you saw some guy with a metal detector doing the same (assuming you spend time on a beach of coure)?
Like I said earlier, I don't know the science behind it but I'm sure there is science behind it. James Randi's insistence that dowsing is nothing more than an "idiomotor reaction" is certainly the ostrich approach to answering the question. "If I can't prove it with my science then it must be a scam." It's been proven to exist well beyond the laws of chance many times by people more reputable than James Randi and E. H. Boudreau. Eventually someone will figure out how it actually works from the scientific perspective. There's been questions in the past that science couldn't answer. Those that offered answers, whether they would be proven right or not, were often branded as nut cases by conventional wisdom. Dare I say the world isn't flat, it's round? Over time, though, science has answered those questions. At one point and time our ancestors thought Native Americans were nuts for chewing on the bark of Willow trees or Snake Root. Science proved what their medicinal values really are and now those same Native Americans look pretty damned smart. Give it time. Science unfettered by politics and unbiased by money will answer this question too.
The solution I like is to lay in a couple cheap pairs of copper wire with the line. It could be anything like old residential telephone wiring or recommissioned Cat3 pulled during an office remodel. Anything like that would work. Loop one end (preferrably the unaccessible end). Then you can hook up a $40 tone generator to the pair and use basic telecom tools to find the line in the ground. Slick as hell.
Personally I'm a fan of burying any line in the ground with a couple pairs of cheap copper. It can be as inexpensive as Cat3 ripped from some old office building during a remodeling. Splice it together and tape it up. Then when you need to reliably locate the line dig up either end and hook up a tone generator to it. That's a snap to locate with no so expensive hardware. I wish more people did that.
I read it but I must have overlooked that part. Yeah, that would be a big problem if they're doing that. Definitely irresponsible. Perhaps they have too many grunts and not enough foremen on the job sites. That might account for it. Maybe.
Sounds like a nice town. I'd love to see one like that sometime. Buried everything must be very aesthetically pleasing.
Really, you need to prevent where possible, but hits are going to be common.
Yeah, it's expected. Really you can't dig in any industrialized city and not expect to hit something. That's just the way it works. Like we netadms always say, there's nothing better for finding buried fiber than a backhoe. Network went down? Blame it on a backhoe interrupt. :-)
Not hardly. It's highly accurate. Chance and luck don't have a thing to do with it. Obviously you've never tried it.
I never have understood what was so difficult about RTFA for the majority of Slashdotters. I can certainly understand not RTFA is the server hosting it is Slashdotted. That makes sense of course. I don't think that was the case here though. Anyhow, the county's maps are seriously borked. Verizon does have the maps of course but they aren't exactly useful. It's basically Russian Roulette with a backhoe. The maps for the older neighborhoods show lines in the wrong spots. It's hard to not dig something up that's supposed to be over there *points 6 feet away*. The newer neighborhoods use PVC for water and sewer lines. This is what's used nowadays but it's extremely easy to break. PVC breaks are expected quite frankly. You have figure them into to every bid. If anyone is to be blamed it should be the county for maintaining piss poor maps.
Don't you really mean Hillsborough County has idiots keeping their records straight? You can't hardly fault the contractors for hitting lines that the counties own official maps say are are somewhere else. Maybe you Hillsborough County Floridians should vote more wisely and elect someone that will hire compotent staff to keep their important records straight. If they can't keep a simple set of maps up to date, what makes you think they can keep your property tax, deeds, and titles straight?
It certainly would have been better for PR. It would have made a more impressive and less expensive proof-of-concept to the powers that be. They should have gone to the Midwest for their trial. Ohio or Iowa perhaps. Oklahoma or the Kansas City area would have worked well too.
The county's maps locates many of the older lines in the wrong spots. It's pretty hard to miss a line that not supposed to be there in the first place. The newer installations use PVC (common) which is exceptionally easy to break, even with an accurate map. That's expected. There isn't a cost-effective way around that. Fortunately that only affects one installation at a time.
You must have forgetten to RTFA. The counties maps show most of the older lines in incorrect spots. How do you avoid a line that's not supposed to be there? You can't. The newer water and sewer installations utilize PVC which as anyone with any experience will tell you happens to be very easy to break, even with an accurate map. The blame here rests on the county's shoulders. They are the incompotent ones who couldn't keep their records straight and show lines where they actually aren't.