If you make E crash, I'd appreciate backtraces. I can't make E crash -- if I could it wouldn't be crashing. SEND CORE AND BACKTRACE DATA. Or tell me how it is you make it crash -- And I'll make it go away. -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
I have two macs, too. But Apple didn't really pioneer most of these ideas, this is something that most people tend to mistake. They just happen to be the company that brought a lot of them together. But all of these people stopped short - I don't intend that we will make this same mistake -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Of COURSE you won't have to use all the features. that's one of the great things about E is the ability to turn off all the crap you don't want to deal with:) now, that being said, in CVS there's always some transitional periods (like the iconbox right now) that happen. but then again when we do the release-a-day thing like CVS that's the kinda thing you're willing to put up with:) -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Definitely something that I would want, also. you'll notice from some of the screenshots that raster and myself put up that those sorts of tools are coming, even though slowly. A lot of the user-end customization can already be done through easy-to-use menus. You will be seeing more of this. -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
no kidding. that's something that there should be more people complaining about than what they're all beating around right now. We DO have a serious lack of documentation. But it's all coming... hopefully we'll have some better documentation online in the near future. -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
actually, you can check out exactly what is going on out of CVS as we're working on it. I figure with that sort of ability you don't have to have as many full-head-on releases. I mean, every time there's a new feature we could always release something, but it wouldn't be so big of a deal that there's a new release when we do. -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Actually, I'll also point out that until recently raster was developing on a p120 and I was developing on a p133. -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Actually, I run E on much lower machines than you do, and it runs fine. The point behind these big machines isn't so that we can actually run stuff. The point is so that we can compile and test and debug at a faster rate. I don't know about you, but compiling two megs of source code takes a while on all my other machines. I have a fast SMP machine because I want to be able to compile and test E while I'm still thinking about the code I just wrote. Keeps stuff fresh in my mind. I run E on everything from a low-end UDB (those multia alphas (ick)) to a p133, to a 486, to a couple of 66 mhz ppcs, to the machine you read about in the interview, which is my primary machine. Making E work efficiently in as little resources as possible is a VERY real issue for us. Please don't assume that it isn't. -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Of course, when you look at what we are doing all day on these boxes (compiling, debugging, etc) you'll see why. I don't want a fast machine because I need it to run E, I want a fast machine because I need to be able to compile and debug quicker:) -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Actually, you won't have to do that. The point is to have it all set up and such so that you don't HAVE to go to the commandline for most stuff. I'm not advocating removing the commandline, I'm saying simple things should have simple methods of getting done -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Actually in response to a few of the posts I've already seen on here, I'll say that I personally have been working on implementing KDE hints inside of E for the past few days. No sense in not supporting everyone's applications. Of course, I don't have many K apps installed on my system, so I won't be able to do a ton of testing quite yet, but you should end up being able to run any of the K*apps or Gnome*apps after this is done, and have them work "correctly" -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
"compatible" - well realize that we do run on a number of different systems and platforms and archetectures (sp?) so the compatibility shouldn't be a problem.
Both raster and myself are spending a lot of time these days working on imlib and enlightenment (respectively). There's a lot of stuff on the whiteboard right now to do. -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
somehow I don't get how you see it as a PR stunt. in case you didn't notice, these days when linus sneezes he gets press. that was why press was up front, IIRC. I suppose people tend to forget these things. -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
How about Ted T'so? can you say ext2? maybe HJ Lu? Libc5, NFS, etc. there surely aren't 25 people working in the labs, but there are about 10. plus we've got 5+ people working on the merced port (direct kernel work)
just a quick note... -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
I personally work on enlightenment at work here. other people here are also working on improving interfaces to things like printing, etc -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
well - I have to say that gregg's a nice guy. he was responsible for pushing the powerbook out the door at apple, etc.
he is mostly management however, which he's good at. He's the person that I "report" to, although that's a poor way to put it, since I don't have a schedule or deadlines or any of that nature, I just do what I do. -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
there are a lot of people working on non-kernel stuff here, but we do hardware, too.
but then again, my personal skillset isn't in the kernel but in other areas. -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
1) there is a large percentage of code that raster did not write in enlightenment. 2) if redhat decides to change the license, then we splinter and who cares what redhat does with it (there isn't anyone else really who knows the codebase like raster or myself - so I doubt that would happen) - the license prevents them from doing anything silly anyways -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
actually it's not GPL anymore, it's the X license. which is actually a lot freer than GPL. and you'll find a lot more people than raster's name in the copyright. eesh -ewait "copyright" -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
you're sure it's E and not the session manager? or even your X server? or even something else running on your desktop?
if you can give me a way to make E crash I will be impressed. (I don't know what redhat shipped - I know they have some nonstandard patch on there). not only that I'll fix it.:) -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
yes, it's true. friday was his last day at redhat. -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
"more stable" ? "lighter" ? most people who say these types of things don't know much about enlightenment. it doesn't hog memory unless you tell it to, and it certainly doesn't crash all the time like people tend to assume it does.
-- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Re:Corporate Violation
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· Score: 3
Well - all the work that we do here is given a free software license (GPL,BSD, or X, depending on the project) and put back into the community. and we all work with people in the community on different projects in the community that need work. XFree86, Enlightenment, next generation BIOS, the kernel, Mesa, etc... and besides, since the code is all free software even if the company decides to do something nasty at some point (which I highly doubt), the community already has everything we worked on here, and those of us who did the work can choose to leave the company and even continue working on it if we want to. Or if we don't leave, you can work on it from outside, even if we don't want to work on it anymore. That's be beauty of the free software community. just my two cents -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
You know, I wonder what type of person would put Sam Ockman on the same line as say... Alan Cox or David Miller... and then also continue to plug everything else that Penguin Computing put on at the show. Now, I'll be the first to admit that the girl in the tux suit was pretty cool (it was), but the 8way we've all saw in march at the VA booth. anyways... Hi Sam:) -- Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net) Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
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If you make E crash, I'd appreciate backtraces. I can't make E crash -- if I could it wouldn't be crashing. SEND CORE AND BACKTRACE DATA. Or tell me how it is you make it crash -- And I'll make it go away.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
I have two macs, too.
But Apple didn't really pioneer most of these ideas, this is something that most people tend to mistake. They just happen to be the company that brought a lot of them together. But all of these people stopped short - I don't intend that we will make this same mistake
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Of COURSE you won't have to use all the features. :) :)
that's one of the great things about E is the ability to turn off all the crap you don't want to deal with
now, that being said, in CVS there's always some transitional periods (like the iconbox right now) that happen. but then again when we do the release-a-day thing like CVS that's the kinda thing you're willing to put up with
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Definitely something that I would want, also. you'll notice from some of the screenshots that raster and myself put up that those sorts of tools are coming, even though slowly. A lot of the user-end customization can already be done through easy-to-use menus. You will be seeing more of this.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
no kidding. that's something that there should be more people complaining about than what they're all beating around right now. We DO have a serious lack of documentation. But it's all coming... hopefully we'll have some better documentation online in the near future.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
actually, you can check out exactly what is going on out of CVS as we're working on it. I figure with that sort of ability you don't have to have as many full-head-on releases. I mean, every time there's a new feature we could always release something, but it wouldn't be so big of a deal that there's a new release when we do.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Actually, I'll also point out that until recently raster was developing on a p120 and I was developing on a p133.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Actually, I run E on much lower machines than you do, and it runs fine. The point behind these big machines isn't so that we can actually run stuff. The point is so that we can compile and test and debug at a faster rate. I don't know about you, but compiling two megs of source code takes a while on all my other machines. I have a fast SMP machine because I want to be able to compile and test E while I'm still thinking about the code I just wrote. Keeps stuff fresh in my mind. I run E on everything from a low-end UDB (those multia alphas (ick)) to a p133, to a 486, to a couple of 66 mhz ppcs, to the machine you read about in the interview, which is my primary machine. Making E work efficiently in as little resources as possible is a VERY real issue for us. Please don't assume that it isn't.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Of course, when you look at what we are doing all day on these boxes (compiling, debugging, etc) you'll see why. I don't want a fast machine because I need it to run E, I want a fast machine because I need to be able to compile and debug quicker :)
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Actually, you won't have to do that.
The point is to have it all set up and such so that you don't HAVE to go to the commandline for most stuff. I'm not advocating removing the commandline, I'm saying simple things should have simple methods of getting done
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Actually in response to a few of the posts I've already seen on here, I'll say that I personally have been working on implementing KDE hints inside of E for the past few days. No sense in not supporting everyone's applications. Of course, I don't have many K apps installed on my system, so I won't be able to do a ton of testing quite yet, but you should end up being able to run any of the K*apps or Gnome*apps after this is done, and have them work "correctly"
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
"compatible" - well realize that we do run on a number of different systems and platforms and archetectures (sp?) so the compatibility shouldn't be a problem.
Both raster and myself are spending a lot of time these days working on imlib and enlightenment (respectively). There's a lot of stuff on the whiteboard right now to do.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
somehow I don't get how you see it as a PR stunt. in case you didn't notice, these days when linus sneezes he gets press. that was why press was up front, IIRC. I suppose people tend to forget these things.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
How about Ted T'so? can you say ext2?
maybe HJ Lu? Libc5, NFS, etc.
there surely aren't 25 people working in the labs, but there are about 10. plus we've got 5+ people working on the merced port (direct kernel work)
just a quick note...
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
I personally work on enlightenment at work here.
other people here are also working on improving interfaces to things like printing, etc
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
well - I have to say that gregg's a nice guy. he was responsible for pushing the powerbook out the door at apple, etc.
he is mostly management however, which he's good at. He's the person that I "report" to, although that's a poor way to put it, since I don't have a schedule or deadlines or any of that nature, I just do what I do.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
there are a lot of people working on non-kernel stuff here, but we do hardware, too.
but then again, my personal skillset isn't in the kernel but in other areas.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
1) there is a large percentage of code that raster did not write in enlightenment.
2) if redhat decides to change the license, then we splinter and who cares what redhat does with it (there isn't anyone else really who knows the codebase like raster or myself - so I doubt that would happen) - the license prevents them from doing anything silly anyways
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
actually it's not GPL anymore, it's the X license.
which is actually a lot freer than GPL.
and you'll find a lot more people than raster's name in the copyright.
eesh -ewait "copyright"
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
you're sure it's E and not the session manager?
:)
or even your X server?
or even something else running on your desktop?
if you can give me a way to make E crash I will be impressed. (I don't know what redhat shipped - I know they have some nonstandard patch on there).
not only that I'll fix it.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
yes, it's true. friday was his last day at redhat.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
that's not true at all.
In fact, I work on enlightenment at VA.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
"more stable" ?
"lighter" ?
most people who say these types of things don't know much about enlightenment. it doesn't hog memory unless you tell it to, and it certainly doesn't crash all the time like people tend to assume it does.
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
Well - all the work that we do here is given a free software license (GPL,BSD, or X, depending on the project) and put back into the community. and we all work with people in the community on different projects in the community that need work. XFree86, Enlightenment, next generation BIOS, the kernel, Mesa, etc... and besides, since the code is all free software even if the company decides to do something nasty at some point (which I highly doubt), the community already has everything we worked on here, and those of us who did the work can choose to leave the company and even continue working on it if we want to. Or if we don't leave, you can work on it from outside, even if we don't want to work on it anymore. That's be beauty of the free software community.
just my two cents
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)
You know, I wonder what type of person would put Sam Ockman on the same line as say... Alan Cox or David Miller... and then also continue to plug everything else that Penguin Computing put on at the show. Now, I'll be the first to admit that the girl in the tux suit was pretty cool (it was), but the 8way we've all saw in march at the VA booth. anyways... Hi Sam :)
--
Geoff Harrison (http://mandrake.net)
Senior Software Engineer - VA Linux Labs (http://www.valinux.com)