"That being said, Youtube is doomed eventually, maybe this case, or another."
I am not so sure...
YouTube Summer of Art anyone?
Put up some nice prizes in several categories. Contest rules like so:
1. Make and post videos in some category. License must be copyleft.
2. Put all "raw materials" that went into the video up somewhere like the internet archive. (Google could host for free as well I guess.) This is for reuse by all in the next contest that will be held.
3. Winners determined. (How? Most popular on YouTube itself? Some other way?)
4. Winners get a nice budget to make more copyleft videos.
Whatever.
If the "content" industry insists on hamstringing the tech industry, the tech industry might need to fund alternate content. Content that can't be used to hamstring new tech but would rather promote new tech while that same new tech promotes that content.
"While I understand the importance of web searches, would it be so hard to change the nature of web crawlers so that they didn't spider a site unless they were specifically allowed?"
I guess you could, you could just as easily put terms in the licenses of web servers that state that by using the web server software, you agree to let all your documents be crawled except where you deny that with.... wait for it.... robots.txt.
"Further, I would remove plaintiffs from collecting "Punitive Damages" as those should go to the State or into a fund to compensate victims of similar crimes/losses, where there is no Plaintiff to be found."
You might want to re word that about no Plaintiff, but... Wow! I have finally found another person that says Punitive Damages should not go to the victims but to some other "related" purpose. That makes tow I know about now... Could this be qa groundswell?
"Y wins, gets Z$ from X + the greater of Attorney Fees(X, Y)"
This one has problems. Seems like the rich might love this.
"All anyone cares about is to have hardware with free drivers, from there any distro can be installed."
Exactly! That is the key...
Take that hardware you suggest. Provide a bootable CD meant to test that the hardware is working properly.
From there they have many choices which will be acceptable for reasonable people.
1. Sell the machine with no OS installed. There is no (gratis?) software support. Users install OS of choice. If something goes wrong, vendor tells you to pop in live diagnostics CD. Let it boot and test. If the hardware passes, sort your own problems. (Or pay for support?)
2. Pick possibly one "enterprise" distro and possibly one "desktop" distro and support them. (For approved versions?) For anything else, pop in that live diagnostics CD. Let it boot and test. If the hardware passes, sort your own problems. (Or pay for support?)
3. ???
4. Profit.
The whole thing hangs on the Free drivers for all the hardware in the box.
"There is a finite pie of ear- and eyeball-hours out there, and if 30% of them are ever drawn to Creative Commons type stuff, that's 30% that isn't paying Viacom."
Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Winner! We have a winner!
You are so right with this remark. And it goes even deeper...
"A better system would give students time each day, or at least a few days a week, in supervised study hall. Staff it with student teachers or assistants capable of helping with questions (which parents often can't). A longer school day with me would work too.
The real issue is that all too often homework is given because it is expected by parents, and is just busywork. The "I had lots of homework as a kid so my kids should too" attitude of some parents is not beneficial."
My parents came from a different system.
For instance, for my mother, at the beginning the school day ended at one but with homework. Then the school day was extended to three but with the extra time being for supervised homework. As she tells it, somehow, without the plan being formally changed, at some point regular school went to three and homework began again.
They let us know that they would prefer it if we had less homework. That helped with my attitude at least.
Now I see proposals floated to keep kids in to five or seven pm. Are we going crazy? Is this forced, organized, baby sitting?
"Homework exists to reinforce the learning from the schoolday. It is not punishment, and it is not surplus work to keep the devil from taking over their souls."
Well, if so, how about this:
maintain an A average and you can choose to do your homework or not, turn it in late if you like, or whatever? Doing it will give you a cushion should you have a bad test result - a bit of insurance so to speak.
You have demonstrated that you do not need the reinforcement as you are getting it in class, you get a bonus.
Without reading the article, but going from what I think I see going on...
I have these issues with homework:
1. Giving homework that the child can't do and that the parents have to do for them. (I see this a lot.) (Or that the child will get a bad grade for if they do it on their own.)
2. Homework that will take too long to do properly.
3. Too much too young.
There may be others, but that is off the top of my head.
"What needs to happen is for Internet radio stations to turn to independent labels. Consumers will buy the music they hear."
Fine, but I will go you one further. They should only play Free music on which no royalties are due. Then they should turn around and pay out the same amount in royalties. Say half to the copyright holders of the music they played and half to fund the creation of new Free music.
If they just play traditional ARR music from "indies" the big boys will just buy out the rights and the stations will end up in the same pickle. They need to find a new game to play.
"Do you really want your senator choosing what you can listen to? Then you must have more trust in your government in the USA than I have in mine here in the UK."
I get this point, but one thing to consider is that it is already in the hands of the government as they make the laws which give copyright teeth in the first place. This is not a free market game here.
"The law essentially says you cannot mislead the public with advertising or promotions that suggest your business is endorsed by or connected to the Olympic Games and/or one of the organizing committess."
OK, fine, but why specificity? Is it really legal to mislead the public now with advertising or promotions that suggest your business is endorsed by or connected to random entity when it is in fact not? If not, why is the law needed, if so, why not fix it and write a general law?
"IP can be freely traded like other property so the rights"
Copyrights and patents expire. What property rights expire? I think that is one issue with calling them property. It assumes certain things that are in contention.
Are there other things that can be freely traded that are not property?
"Intellectual property is a summary term for trademarks, copyrights and patents because it'd be annoying to spell all that out every time and the lws on them are pretty similar."
Just in case you are unaware of one of the issues taken with your point it is this:
The term property assumes a good part of the argument.
Intellectual rights - may not get the same disagreement.
Then again, even rights may get some arguments. Are they fundamental rights as in the right to life, or more restricted like the right to drive up to 35 miles per hour where the speed limit is 35 miles per hour?
Another issue people have with lumping them all together is that the laws governing them do not lump them together, if some countries do, all certainly do not. This is a good way to lead to confusion.
"Lets fix the laws, and instead of giving the fines generated by this to the cops...lets redistribute those out to all those in the community that did NOT get a traffic infraction that year."
That, or to people injured in accidents where the other party was speeding. (As in to pay their medical expenses, etc. not as a lottery winning.)
"I've repeatedly said copyright law has no bearing on my side of the discussion."
Come on. You just said copyright law says talling a joke is fair use. Does fair use exist in your world view outside of copyright law? Are you afraid to state clearly what your position is versus the rights you claim? What?
"They have the same rights with or without copyright."
OK, so to go with what you have said. Even without copyright law, it is OK to recite a joke from memory but not a play. If you have not said that, you have not made yourself very clear, if you have, where is the line in your view.
"And, you do not get to determine what I can discuss and when"
No I don't, but if you want to have an honest and open discussion, it would be helpful if we could try and work with one another in at least understanding clearly what our respective positions are.
">>"you maintain that he has rights to the combination of words absent as physical entity..."
I have not claimed that. I've claimed he has the right to determine who can make copies of his work, or portions of it, or otherwise manipulate it. Reciting a work does not involve manipulating or copying the object that is a work."
And yet you just said you could not put on a play. OK, how about simply recite a play? Are you being technical and maintining that putting on a play is more as a matter or these rights than reciting that same play?
Slashdot Mirror
"That being said, Youtube is doomed eventually, maybe this case, or another."
I am not so sure...
YouTube Summer of Art anyone?
Put up some nice prizes in several categories. Contest rules like so:
1. Make and post videos in some category. License must be copyleft.
2. Put all "raw materials" that went into the video up somewhere like the internet archive. (Google could host for free as well I guess.) This is for reuse by all in the next contest that will be held.
3. Winners determined. (How? Most popular on YouTube itself? Some other way?)
4. Winners get a nice budget to make more copyleft videos.
Whatever.
If the "content" industry insists on hamstringing the tech industry, the tech industry might need to fund alternate content. Content that can't be used to hamstring new tech but would rather promote new tech while that same new tech promotes that content.
all the best,
drew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcaf2ThG7q4
UFO seen in skies over Winton!
"While I understand the importance of web searches, would it be so hard to change the nature of web crawlers so that they didn't spider a site unless they were specifically allowed?"
.... wait for it .... robots.txt.
I guess you could, you could just as easily put terms in the licenses of web servers that state that by using the web server software, you agree to let all your documents be crawled except where you deny that with
That wouldn't be too hard either would it?
all the best,
drew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcaf2ThG7q4
UFO seen in skies over Winton!
"Further, I would remove plaintiffs from collecting "Punitive Damages" as those should go to the State or into a fund to compensate victims of similar crimes/losses, where there is no Plaintiff to be found."
You might want to re word that about no Plaintiff, but... Wow! I have finally found another person that says Punitive Damages should not go to the victims but to some other "related" purpose. That makes tow I know about now... Could this be qa groundswell?
"Y wins, gets Z$ from X + the greater of Attorney Fees(X, Y)"
This one has problems. Seems like the rich might love this.
all the best,
drew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcaf2ThG7q4
UFO seen in skies over Winton!
"and Viacom's product is now less valuable because thousands or millions of people have already seen it."
r o&search=Search
Actually, this tends to make it more valuable. At least in some cases.
Would that millions of people should see my stuff. Can you help me out and watch some of my stuff below? Point your friends at it as well...
all the best,
drew
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zotzb
Lots of people care...
... ???
camera memory, flash drives,
all the best,
drew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=834CMndtLqA
"All anyone cares about is to have hardware with free drivers, from there any distro can be installed."
Exactly! That is the key...
Take that hardware you suggest. Provide a bootable CD meant to test that the hardware is working properly.
From there they have many choices which will be acceptable for reasonable people.
1. Sell the machine with no OS installed. There is no (gratis?) software support. Users install OS of choice. If something goes wrong, vendor tells you to pop in live diagnostics CD. Let it boot and test. If the hardware passes, sort your own problems. (Or pay for support?)
2. Pick possibly one "enterprise" distro and possibly one "desktop" distro and support them. (For approved versions?) For anything else, pop in that live diagnostics CD. Let it boot and test. If the hardware passes, sort your own problems. (Or pay for support?)
3. ???
4. Profit.
The whole thing hangs on the Free drivers for all the hardware in the box.
all the best,
drew
http://www.youtube.com/user/zotzbro
"There is a finite pie of ear- and eyeball-hours out there, and if 30% of them are ever drawn to Creative Commons type stuff, that's 30% that isn't paying Viacom."
Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding! Winner! We have a winner!
You are so right with this remark. And it goes even deeper...
all the best,
drew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=834CMndtLqA
Another slashdot business model fan! Congrats...
all the best,
drew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls1QealrmLk
"Companies that create no content of their own, and make money solely on the backs of other people's content"
r o&search=Search
What, is this insult your audience 101?
all the best,
drew
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zotzb
"and published their content online, Google would be swamped with free books."
r o&search=Search
1. Google goes into publishing business.
2. Google announces it will only publish copyleft books.
3. ???
4. Profit.
(??? might be puts ads on each page of the books which are online and pays the authors...???)
Hey, google and a slashdot business model. Does it get any better than that?
all the best,
drew
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zotzb
"A better system would give students time each day, or at least a few days a week, in supervised study hall. Staff it with student teachers or assistants capable of helping with questions (which parents often can't). A longer school day with me would work too.
The real issue is that all too often homework is given because it is expected by parents, and is just busywork. The "I had lots of homework as a kid so my kids should too" attitude of some parents is not beneficial."
My parents came from a different system.
For instance, for my mother, at the beginning the school day ended at one but with homework. Then the school day was extended to three but with the extra time being for supervised homework. As she tells it, somehow, without the plan being formally changed, at some point regular school went to three and homework began again.
They let us know that they would prefer it if we had less homework. That helped with my attitude at least.
Now I see proposals floated to keep kids in to five or seven pm. Are we going crazy? Is this forced, organized, baby sitting?
all the best,
drew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls1QealrmLk
"Homework exists to reinforce the learning from the schoolday. It is not punishment, and it is not surplus work to keep the devil from taking over their souls."
Well, if so, how about this:
maintain an A average and you can choose to do your homework or not, turn it in late if you like, or whatever? Doing it will give you a cushion should you have a bad test result - a bit of insurance so to speak.
You have demonstrated that you do not need the reinforcement as you are getting it in class, you get a bonus.
all the best,
drew
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=834CMndtLqA
Without reading the article, but going from what I think I see going on...
r o&search=Search
I have these issues with homework:
1. Giving homework that the child can't do and that the parents have to do for them. (I see this a lot.) (Or that the child will get a bad grade for if they do it on their own.)
2. Homework that will take too long to do properly.
3. Too much too young.
There may be others, but that is off the top of my head.
all the best,
drew
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zotzb
"What needs to happen is for Internet radio stations to turn to independent labels. Consumers will buy the music they hear."
Fine, but I will go you one further. They should only play Free music on which no royalties are due. Then they should turn around and pay out the same amount in royalties. Say half to the copyright holders of the music they played and half to fund the creation of new Free music.
If they just play traditional ARR music from "indies" the big boys will just buy out the rights and the stations will end up in the same pickle. They need to find a new game to play.
all the best,
drew
"Do you really want your senator choosing what you can listen to? Then you must have more trust in your government in the USA than I have in mine here in the UK."
I get this point, but one thing to consider is that it is already in the hands of the government as they make the laws which give copyright teeth in the first place. This is not a free market game here.
all the best,
drew
"The law essentially says you cannot mislead the public with advertising or promotions that suggest your business is endorsed by or connected to the Olympic Games and/or one of the organizing committess."
r o&search=Search
OK, fine, but why specificity? Is it really legal to mislead the public now with advertising or promotions that suggest your business is endorsed by or connected to random entity when it is in fact not? If not, why is the law needed, if so, why not fix it and write a general law?
all the best,
drew
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=zotzb
If it is as good as you say, a couple of things...
It is a shame that the general laws in any country are not sufficient to deal with such deceiving of the public already.
Can you trust them, I seem to remember some story about some Olympic Cafe from several years ago.
Even if the cases eventually get thrown out, there can be a chilling effect. Especially in... wait for it... winter!
Laws often get put on the books with some publicly stated purpose but then get used for whatever they can be used for.
all the best,
drew
Well, actually, I figure this is the issue that will get Bush his Oscar a few years down the road...
all the best,
drew
The ones for fresh fruit. Leave a box of bananas in your apartment for 20 years and see what happens.
Nice joke, but by that logic, even your property rights in your mountain or seaside land expire.all the best,
drew
I am not sure what you point is. I may just be a bit slow right now though.
all the best,
drew
"IP can be freely traded like other property so the rights"
Copyrights and patents expire. What property rights expire? I think that is one issue with calling them property. It assumes certain things that are in contention.
Are there other things that can be freely traded that are not property?
all the best,
drew
"Intellectual property is a summary term for trademarks, copyrights and patents because it'd be annoying to spell all that out every time and the lws on them are pretty similar."
Just in case you are unaware of one of the issues taken with your point it is this:
The term property assumes a good part of the argument.
Intellectual rights - may not get the same disagreement.
Then again, even rights may get some arguments. Are they fundamental rights as in the right to life, or more restricted like the right to drive up to 35 miles per hour where the speed limit is 35 miles per hour?
Another issue people have with lumping them all together is that the laws governing them do not lump them together, if some countries do, all certainly do not. This is a good way to lead to confusion.
all the best,
drew
"Lets fix the laws, and instead of giving the fines generated by this to the cops...lets redistribute those out to all those in the community that did NOT get a traffic infraction that year."
That, or to people injured in accidents where the other party was speeding. (As in to pay their medical expenses, etc. not as a lottery winning.)
all the best,
drew
"The specific definition, the metrics, of fair use is a legal issue."
How could it possibly be a legal issue if the law has no bearing on rights?
"Different discussion that I don't want since this one is very tiresome."
Fine.
"Because you keep raising edge cases using the word "copyright" and asking me about them."
Please give examples of the first instance of each case. I don't recall doing so at all. Only in response.
"I will ignore any further response. You've not answered my challenges to your argument and I'm bored with this."
I think I responded to a similar statement a day or two ago saying that as far as I was concerned, you should feel free to do exactly this.
all the best,
drew
"I've repeatedly said copyright law has no bearing on my side of the discussion."
Come on. You just said copyright law says talling a joke is fair use. Does fair use exist in your world view outside of copyright law? Are you afraid to state clearly what your position is versus the rights you claim? What?
"They have the same rights with or without copyright."
OK, so to go with what you have said. Even without copyright law, it is OK to recite a joke from memory but not a play. If you have not said that, you have not made yourself very clear, if you have, where is the line in your view.
"And, you do not get to determine what I can discuss and when"
No I don't, but if you want to have an honest and open discussion, it would be helpful if we could try and work with one another in at least understanding clearly what our respective positions are.
">>"you maintain that he has rights to the combination of words absent as physical entity..."
I have not claimed that. I've claimed he has the right to determine who can make copies of his work, or portions of it, or otherwise manipulate it. Reciting a work does not involve manipulating or copying the object that is a work."
And yet you just said you could not put on a play. OK, how about simply recite a play? Are you being technical and maintining that putting on a play is more as a matter or these rights than reciting that same play?
all the best,
drew