"So, would it not make sense then for us to remove him from power if it's our responsibility?"
No. Just that you can't claim that the reason you want to remove him is because he kill people. We helped him kill those people so it's not a legit reason.
"Shouldn't we stop him from killing even more people?"
We should not have helped him kill people in the first place.
"We can't change the past, but we can shape the future."
Neither can you shirk your responsiblity for the past. Installing one puppet to replace another is no solution.
Really now. Why do move all the way out in the middle of nowhere and expect the same level of service as everybody else. You moved out there to get away from people right?
I read the page. I am not surprised. History shows that all opressive governments got that way with the approvals of the majority of the citizens. You know..
First they came for gypsies, then they came for jews etc.
I wonder when they are going to come for me and you.
"Deep down you want all of the worlds problems to be so simple they can be solved by a hug, and a coke with every day ending at sunset when all the peoples of the world join hands and sing together in perfect harmony. But that's not the world we live in, it's a world that never existed, and will never exist. "
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. The problem with you war pigs is that you think there are no other ways to solve problems other then killing. Over a thousand civillians were killed, tens of thousands of civillians were injured, tens of thousands of iraqi "soldiers" who were simply conscripts died too.
Once bush chummed the waters bloodthirsty fucks like you got all frenzied at the thought of dropping bombs on people and war became inevitable. Stupid warmongers then closed their eyes to any other possible solution.
COmbined technologies of israel and the US and we could not figure out where saddam was and get rid of him? All the special ops, cia, mossad, etc could nto infiltrate the regime to get rid of saddam? There was no other solution except to invade and kill? Yea right!
The really sad thing is that the bloodlust of pigs like you is still not satiated. Sryia is next.
"Last time I looked, the definition of "poverty" in the US included people with cable TV. That's only "poverty" if you're on drugs."
Ok it's obvious you never actually leave your neighborhood so I won't even try to inform you of the poverty that exists in this country.
"That appears to be a reference to law enforcement."
No it doesn't. Why would you infer that?
"Insert the words "or imprison" after "kill"."
Huh? Why insert any words at all. Or if you are going to insert words why not insert a bunch of them? That's a pretty stupid argument. If the author wanted to insert words he would have.
"The point is that if you break the law like that, you will be punished for it "
No it's not. The point is plainly made in understandable english. If you kill we will hunt you down and kill you. It has nothing to do with law and everything to do with vigilanteeism.
"So far, post-Clinton, the wars have entailed Afghanistan (when the Taleban's room-mates Al Queda attacked the US) and Iraq (attacked US interests in 1994, housed Al Queda splinter group in the North, trained terrorists in aircraft hijacking, still has large stores of anthrax, sarin etc unaccounted for along with a nuclear program)."
Woe nice set of nonsense. Iraq had nothing to do with al quada. In fact there are probably more al quada cells in germany then there are in iraq.
Bush has been in office for less then three years and has already started two wars. Groundwork is being laid for the third one as we speak (syria). As long as Bush is president we will be at war it's the only reason his popularity is so high and it's the only thing that will guarantee him a re-election.
As for Arafat once again you are vastly oversimplifying things. If you think it's moral for israel to militarily occupy three plus million people, if you think it's perfectly OK to starve hundreds of thousands of people, if you think it's fine that Israel routinely puts hundreds of thousands of people under curfew, if you think it's moral to have an official policy of torture and mass arrests of able bodied men without charges or due process then you are incapable of thinking about this rationally.
"The US is not pursuing the half-witted interventionism morons like Clinton"
No it's pursuing a policy of endless wars for profit, for confiscation of natural resources, for the advancement of the state of israel and putting into place events which will lead to apocalypse and the return of Jesus Christ.
"I don't know, but they make some very valid points."
No they don't. They simply reiterate the tired old republican propaganda that we hear evey day on all the cable stations.
Iraq body count only counts the civillians. As I stated there are tens of thousands of other human beings who died trying to repel the american invation of their country.
" And, I won't even bring up how many people died under Saddam's regime..."
We supported saddams slaughter of the kurds. We gave him the gas and the technology to do that. We supported saddams use of gas in the iran iraq war, in fact we imposed an arms embargo on iran while arming saddam.
I don't know how many people saddam killed but you as an american must take the credit/blame for a good percentage of them. It was our tax dollars and our govt who was an all too willing help saddam carry out his slaughter. You and I bear some responsibility for the deaths of all of those people.
How many dead bodies did you see? How many wounded children did you see?
You saw the sanitized war which is exactly what the DOD wanted you to see.
Americans like to pretend their bombs don't actually kill people. They repeatedly show images of a few hundred people celebrating the toppling of a statue and pretend that the tens of thousands of other Iraqis who gave up their lives in an overwhelmingly lopsided fight against the invation of the US troops.
Of course you are not even allowed to know how many people died.
Your link points to a pretty sickening document. Not only sickening but kind of delusional too.
"Americans are the most charitable people to be found"? Huh? since when. If americans were so generous there would be hunger and poverty in the US.
"You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and kill you."
Only in america is this kind of lawlessness and vigilanteeism revered.
"You do not have the right to demand that our children risk their lives in foreign wars to soothe your aching conscience. We hate oppressive governments and won't lift a finger to stop you from going to fight if you'd like. However, we do not enjoy parenting the entire world and do not want to spend so much of our time battling each and every little tyrant with a military uniform and a funny hat."
Here is an interesting article in ZDNET which is a VERY pro microsoft site. Here is a quote from that article.
In the survey, Linux admin salaries were slightly higher than Windows admins, with Linux at $71,400 per admin, and Windows at $68,500 per admin. But Linux admins took care of an average of 44 servers and Windows admins an average of 10. So the salary per processing unit was Linux, $12,010, and Windows, $52,060.
"We have our share of problems with terminal server. Apparently, it counts currently used licenses in a weird way (perhaps that's related to what you said: sessions are not actually closed)."
The licence states that you have to pay for a windows 2000 (or XP I guess) professional for everybody who uses terminal server no matter what operating system they are using. It's kind of a rip off actually.
" Dialog boxes disappear, windows scroll at the speed of light,
Never had that experience, and I had been using Remote Windows 2000 (with, as well as without Citrix) for a good long time."
I deployed with windows 2000 server and clients. Lots of times the dialog boxes don't show up because they go behind other windows. The users machine seems to be locked up when in fact the modal dialog box is wating for a click behind some other windows.
" It's called the HTML editing scriptlet and I've personally (with a couple of lines of ASP code and some javascript) developed a fully customized web based word processor, with Word-like toolbars and icons and such. IE has this hidden feature that is basically an integrated HTML editor; the object just needs to be called. You then put the contents of the document into a POST operation to save (natively in HTML format)."
So you are comparing the simple little HTML editor to a full blown office right?.
"Personally, I'd like to see some basic VBA compatibility... say what you want about VB, but I find it very handy for little custom functions in Excel -- and no, I don't want to rewrite them just to use oO. "
Yeech. Why go to all that work just to embed a crappy language. Better off embedding ruby or python or something. If compatibilty means dealing with VB then I'd rather do without it.
How many users can you support and on what kind of machine.
My expreiments with terminal server indicate that it still needs help. Dialog boxes disappear, windows scroll at the speed of light, and people just close their terminal server leaving tons of open sessions. Oh yea that and it seems to leak memory like a sieve so that all your applications are noticeably slower in the afternoon then in the morning.
"Having the apps served via the network may make it easier to deploy updates, but I still don't believe the suite is going to induce more people to buy Websphere unless it's tightly integrated and truly exceptional relative to other free alternatives."
It does not need to be attractive to you. IBM does not make it's money selling to mom and pop or the typical consumer. It needs to be attractive to the CIOs. I don't know how good this program is but if it can be deployed across an enterprise and then kept up to date with minimal effort then the CIOs might be interested.
So many enterprises don't have anything to keep their windows desktops and IE/Outlook patched and up to date. They rely on their firewalls to give them a false sense of security. For those places this might prove to be an attractive alternative.
Or they can ship you out to guantanamo bay or "hotel california" in afghanistan. After they get through with you there you will tell them your password and all the other secrets you were holding all your life.
All they have to do is to call you a terrorist and boom off you go in the middle of the night.
" The fallacy in your "point" is obvious, yet you can't bring yourself to see its inherent stupidity. Microsoft doesn't "track packages". It sells an operating system. It doesn't include "GNUChess" and they don't give you an rpm for it. The fact that Debian does that is besides the point. Asserting that Debian is "more secure" than Windows is about as stupid as saying that your house is more secure than mine, even though yours has 50 doors and mine has only two. But hey, you use lots of locks. That's so, well, stunningly stupid, it hurts."
Once again the point remains out of reach of your feeble intellect. Oh well no one can say I didn't try to educate the ignorant.
Well you certainly proved that you are not an ignorant fuck after all.
"It must be nice to live in a world where everything is so simple."
Once again I am in awe of the way you cut through my argument with this statement. Not only did you prove that debian does not have over 3000 packages but with that one statement you proved that windows is more secure AND MS tracks and issues security warnings for even more packages then windows.
Lots of cool stuff. They have a web site and you can check it out for yourself. Maybe you can get knoppix and try it out. In this day and age there is no need to wallow in your ignorance just go to the debian web site and see for yourself.
"I could care less if a distro installs sixteen different text editors and media players if I don't get a decent Office suite."
Well I find that openoffice is pretty decent and so it Koffice. It certainly suits my needs and my wife's needs.
Of course this is all completely offtopic. The main point is that debian is more secure then windows despite the fact that debian tracks over 3000 pieces of software while windows only has to track a handful of them.
There are over three thousand packages in the debian stable distribution. They are all written by different parties and yet they are all accessible from a central place and all are guaranteed to play nice with each other.
Debian is widely regraded as the most secure linux distribution.
Really windows can't compare with that. Not even close.
Slashdot Mirror
"So, would it not make sense then for us to remove him from power if it's our responsibility?"
No. Just that you can't claim that the reason you want to remove him is because he kill people. We helped him kill those people so it's not a legit reason.
"Shouldn't we stop him from killing even more people?"
We should not have helped him kill people in the first place.
"We can't change the past, but we can shape the future."
Neither can you shirk your responsiblity for the past. Installing one puppet to replace another is no solution.
Really now. Why do move all the way out in the middle of nowhere and expect the same level of service as everybody else. You moved out there to get away from people right?
I read the page. I am not surprised. History shows that all opressive governments got that way with the approvals of the majority of the citizens. You know..
First they came for gypsies, then they came for jews etc.
I wonder when they are going to come for me and you.
"Deep down you want all of the worlds problems to be so simple they can be solved by a hug, and a coke with every day ending at sunset when all the peoples of the world join hands and sing together in perfect harmony. But that's not the world we live in, it's a world that never existed, and will never exist. "
Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. The problem with you war pigs is that you think there are no other ways to solve problems other then killing. Over a thousand civillians were killed, tens of thousands of civillians were injured, tens of thousands of iraqi "soldiers" who were simply conscripts died too.
Once bush chummed the waters bloodthirsty fucks like you got all frenzied at the thought of dropping bombs on people and war became inevitable. Stupid warmongers then closed their eyes to any other possible solution.
COmbined technologies of israel and the US and we could not figure out where saddam was and get rid of him? All the special ops, cia, mossad, etc could nto infiltrate the regime to get rid of saddam? There was no other solution except to invade and kill? Yea right!
The really sad thing is that the bloodlust of pigs like you is still not satiated. Sryia is next.
"Last time I looked, the definition of "poverty" in the US included people with cable TV. That's only "poverty" if you're on drugs."
Ok it's obvious you never actually leave your neighborhood so I won't even try to inform you of the poverty that exists in this country.
"That appears to be a reference to law enforcement."
No it doesn't. Why would you infer that?
"Insert the words "or imprison" after "kill"."
Huh? Why insert any words at all. Or if you are going to insert words why not insert a bunch of them? That's a pretty stupid argument. If the author wanted to insert words he would have.
"The point is that if you break the law like that, you will be punished for it "
No it's not. The point is plainly made in understandable english. If you kill we will hunt you down and kill you. It has nothing to do with law and everything to do with vigilanteeism.
"So far, post-Clinton, the wars have entailed Afghanistan (when the Taleban's room-mates Al Queda attacked the US) and Iraq (attacked US interests in 1994, housed Al Queda splinter group in the North, trained terrorists in aircraft hijacking, still has large stores of anthrax, sarin etc unaccounted for along with a nuclear program)."
Woe nice set of nonsense. Iraq had nothing to do with al quada. In fact there are probably more al quada cells in germany then there are in iraq.
Bush has been in office for less then three years and has already started two wars. Groundwork is being laid for the third one as we speak (syria). As long as Bush is president we will be at war it's the only reason his popularity is so high and it's the only thing that will guarantee him a re-election.
As for Arafat once again you are vastly oversimplifying things. If you think it's moral for israel to militarily occupy three plus million people, if you think it's perfectly OK to starve hundreds of thousands of people, if you think it's fine that Israel routinely puts hundreds of thousands of people under curfew, if you think it's moral to have an official policy of torture and mass arrests of able bodied men without charges or due process then you are incapable of thinking about this rationally.
"The US is not pursuing the half-witted interventionism morons like Clinton"
No it's pursuing a policy of endless wars for profit, for confiscation of natural resources, for the advancement of the state of israel and putting into place events which will lead to apocalypse and the return of Jesus Christ.
"I don't know, but they make some very valid points."
No they don't. They simply reiterate the tired old republican propaganda that we hear evey day on all the cable stations.
Iraq body count only counts the civillians. As I stated there are tens of thousands of other human beings who died trying to repel the american invation of their country.
" And, I won't even bring up how many people died under Saddam's regime..."
We supported saddams slaughter of the kurds. We gave him the gas and the technology to do that. We supported saddams use of gas in the iran iraq war, in fact we imposed an arms embargo on iran while arming saddam.
I don't know how many people saddam killed but you as an american must take the credit/blame for a good percentage of them. It was our tax dollars and our govt who was an all too willing help saddam carry out his slaughter. You and I bear some responsibility for the deaths of all of those people.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
How many dead bodies did you see? How many wounded children did you see?
You saw the sanitized war which is exactly what the DOD wanted you to see.
Americans like to pretend their bombs don't actually kill people. They repeatedly show images of a few hundred people celebrating the toppling of a statue and pretend that the tens of thousands of other Iraqis who gave up their lives in an overwhelmingly lopsided fight against the invation of the US troops.
Of course you are not even allowed to know how many people died.
Your link points to a pretty sickening document. Not only sickening but kind of delusional too.
"Americans are the most charitable people to be found"? Huh? since when. If americans were so generous there would be hunger and poverty in the US.
"You do not have the right to physically harm other people. If you kidnap, rape, intentionally maim or kill someone, don't be surprised if the rest of us get together and kill you."
Only in america is this kind of lawlessness and vigilanteeism revered.
"You do not have the right to demand that our children risk their lives in foreign wars to soothe your aching conscience. We hate oppressive governments and won't lift a finger to stop you from going to fight if you'd like. However, we do not enjoy parenting the entire world and do not want to spend so much of our time battling each and every little tyrant with a military uniform and a funny hat."
Sound awfull naive given the war on iraq huh?
What kind of a moron wrote those "laws".
Lieberman is a democrat in name only. He is a very conservative person. Tipper Gore is an idiot but lucky for the world she is not a politician.
I think Ashcroft has demonstrated by now the he is Bill's bitch. The chances of this justice dept pursuing MS is near zero. MS knows this too.
Here is an interesting article in ZDNET which is a VERY pro microsoft site. Here is a quote from that article.
In the survey, Linux admin salaries were slightly higher than Windows admins, with Linux at $71,400 per admin, and Windows at $68,500 per admin. But Linux admins took care of an average of 44 servers and Windows admins an average of 10. So the salary per processing unit was Linux, $12,010, and Windows, $52,060.
Follow this link. The title of the page is "10 things Google has found to be true".
Look at number 6 it's titles "You can make money without doing evil."
Maybe that's a strong reason why people continue to use google despite the competition that keeps popping up (hey whatever happened to snap.com?).
I admire any company which holds as one it's core values a commitment to not doing evil. Unfortunately they are in the minority.
"We have our share of problems with terminal server. Apparently, it counts currently used licenses in a weird way (perhaps that's related to what you said: sessions are not actually closed)."
The licence states that you have to pay for a windows 2000 (or XP I guess) professional for everybody who uses terminal server no matter what operating system they are using. It's kind of a rip off actually.
" Dialog boxes disappear, windows scroll at the speed of light,
Never had that experience, and I had been using Remote Windows 2000 (with, as well as without Citrix) for a good long time."
I deployed with windows 2000 server and clients. Lots of times the dialog boxes don't show up because they go behind other windows. The users machine seems to be locked up when in fact the modal dialog box is wating for a click behind some other windows.
" It's called the HTML editing scriptlet and I've personally (with a couple of lines of ASP code and some javascript) developed a fully customized web based word processor, with Word-like toolbars and icons and such. IE has this hidden feature that is basically an integrated HTML editor; the object just needs to be called. You then put the contents of the document into a POST operation to save (natively in HTML format)."
So you are comparing the simple little HTML editor to a full blown office right?.
"Personally, I'd like to see some basic VBA compatibility... say what you want about VB, but I find it very handy for little custom functions in Excel -- and no, I don't want to rewrite them just to use oO. "
Yeech. Why go to all that work just to embed a crappy language. Better off embedding ruby or python or something. If compatibilty means dealing with VB then I'd rather do without it.
How many users can you support and on what kind of machine.
My expreiments with terminal server indicate that it still needs help. Dialog boxes disappear, windows scroll at the speed of light, and people just close their terminal server leaving tons of open sessions. Oh yea that and it seems to leak memory like a sieve so that all your applications are noticeably slower in the afternoon then in the morning.
"Having the apps served via the network may make it easier to deploy updates, but I still don't believe the suite is going to induce more people to buy Websphere unless it's tightly integrated and truly exceptional relative to other free alternatives."
It does not need to be attractive to you. IBM does not make it's money selling to mom and pop or the typical consumer. It needs to be attractive to the CIOs. I don't know how good this program is but if it can be deployed across an enterprise and then kept up to date with minimal effort then the CIOs might be interested.
So many enterprises don't have anything to keep their windows desktops and IE/Outlook patched and up to date. They rely on their firewalls to give them a false sense of security. For those places this might prove to be an attractive alternative.
Time will tell.
Or they can ship you out to guantanamo bay or "hotel california" in afghanistan. After they get through with you there you will tell them your password and all the other secrets you were holding all your life.
All they have to do is to call you a terrorist and boom off you go in the middle of the night.
" The fallacy in your "point" is obvious, yet you can't bring yourself to see its inherent stupidity. Microsoft doesn't "track packages". It sells an operating system. It doesn't include "GNUChess" and they don't give you an rpm for it. The fact that Debian does that is besides the point. Asserting that Debian is "more secure" than Windows is about as stupid as saying that your house is more secure than mine, even though yours has 50 doors and mine has only two. But hey, you use lots of locks. That's so, well, stunningly stupid, it hurts."
Once again the point remains out of reach of your feeble intellect. Oh well no one can say I didn't try to educate the ignorant.
"Since Debian has more "packages", it must be the superior OS. OK, I get it."
No you don't. You are a stunningly stupid and ignorant person. Here let me try and make it simple for you.
Debian tracks over three thousand packages. Everytime there is a security hole in one, debian releases a warning and a fix.
Microsft tracks a handful of packages. Everytime there is a security hole in one, Microsoft releases a warning and a fix.
Given the above two facts, if the two operating systems were equally secure debian would have to issue a thousand fixes for every MS fix.
So you see now how much more secure debian is then windows?
Is that still too hard for you to follow? Try reading up on ratios, you should be able to pick a high school math book and read about them.
"Yes, fuck you too."
Well you certainly proved that you are not an ignorant fuck after all.
"It must be nice to live in a world where everything is so simple."
Once again I am in awe of the way you cut through my argument with this statement. Not only did you prove that debian does not have over 3000 packages but with that one statement you proved that windows is more secure AND MS tracks and issues security warnings for even more packages then windows.
This time around though we have concentration camps set up outside the US boundries. Nobody knows what is going on in those places.
"Yeah, but packages of what?"
Lots of cool stuff. They have a web site and you can check it out for yourself. Maybe you can get knoppix and try it out. In this day and age there is no need to wallow in your ignorance just go to the debian web site and see for yourself.
"I could care less if a distro installs sixteen different text editors and media players if I don't get a decent Office suite."
Well I find that openoffice is pretty decent and so it Koffice. It certainly suits my needs and my wife's needs.
Of course this is all completely offtopic. The main point is that debian is more secure then windows despite the fact that debian tracks over 3000 pieces of software while windows only has to track a handful of them.
There are over three thousand packages in the debian stable distribution. They are all written by different parties and yet they are all accessible from a central place and all are guaranteed to play nice with each other.
Debian is widely regraded as the most secure linux distribution.
Really windows can't compare with that. Not even close.