And why shouldn't Timothy start his sentences with "and"? His choice of words inhibits neither semantic clarity nor voiced flow. Any other requirement is imagined.
About the class A current (or crossover current). I should have made it more clear why I though it might be important. I don't have any experience with the sorts of cmos geometries used in microprocessors but I have played around with push pull drivers that act a bit like a cmos output stage. The cmos output transistors are surely designed with threshold voltages to minimize overlap but the crossover current still occurs. The current pulse has a length that is dependant on operating voltage but not frequency. Therefore, as frequency increases, the crossover current pulse increases a larger portion of the clock period. This will result in a linear increase in power consumption...
I went to the fridge and forgot what I was writing about. What the hell, I'll submit his anyway. whatever
Ahem, you don't know how cmos works. Allow me to explain...
A cmos circuit is composed of complementary pairs of mos transistors (hence the name cmos). A mos transistor works more or less like a switch. A voltage on the gate pin allows a current to flow on between the other two pins (transistors have 3 pins). The gate of a mos transistor looks like a little capacitor. You need to charge up the capacitor to turn on the transistor. The output of each cmos gate has two mos transistors, one goes to the supply (about 2 volts), and the other goes to ground (zero volts). The gate turns on one (and only one) of the transistors to select a binary output level. If both transistors were on a short circuit would occur.
There are three sources of power consumption in a cmos circuit. (1) leakage currents (very small), (2) charging and discharging the gate capacitors, and (3) so called "class A current."
The first item, leakage, is very very small. Several orders of magnitude smaller than the other two. It is independent of operating frequency.
The second item on the list, charging/discharging current, is quite important. It takes a fixed amount of energy to charge the gate capacitor and force the transistor to change state. At higher clock rates you change state more often. Since power is simply energy per unit time, the power consumed from these charging currents is linear with respect to operating frequency. Double the frequency, double the power consumption. BTW, you can force the capacitor to charge more quickly if you increase the supply voltage. Sometimes this is necessary for overclocking. Higher voltages will lead to higher power dissipation (though not necessarily increased current (for a given frequency)).
The last item, "class A current" is caused when both transistors in a cmos output are on at the same time. Since the transistorgates have small capacitors, they can't turn on and off instantaneously. Therefore, when the gate changes state, there will be a short period where both transistors are partially on. This overlapping conduction causes a sizeable current to flow; a short circuit of sorts. This is the so called "class A current." The exact magnitude of this current is dependent on the particulars of the transistor design and the clocking waveforms. It's hard to say what happens to class A current as clock rates go up except that power consumption increases.
BTW, in the process of dumbing down something that isn't all that complicated to begin with you said some pretty silly things:
Electromigration is the only thing that can cause physical damage to the chips besides frying it due to overvoltage. Heat, static, current, etc. Electromigration pales in comparison to soldering irons, drills, and other tools of the trade.
as those gates expand, they start passing more current MOS has a negative tempco (unlike BJTs). They conduct LESS current when they are hot. That's why you don't need to worry about thermal runaway when playing with power mosfets.
More current = more heat No. P = IV, you know that.
Now the more current that is passing, the more likely it is to "jump" the gate WTF?
without spending weeks explaining Doesn't take weeks. Cmos is pretty simple.
Current is what causes heat, NOT voltage. No. See above.
...ohm's law... Your processor is not a resistor. It's not that simple.
a (slight) increase in heat production due to the higher frequencies Large increase. Greater than linear.
> This won't work, due to how chips are > manufactured.
Sure it'll work. Use laser trimming to cut traces on the die before it is packages like they do for precision analog components. Or embed a couple bits of eprom on the die and program it after packaging and testing. It's all really quite simple. 1970's technology.
You'd think the virtual memory system could just deny execute access to memory alloc'ed by C. I gave it a try using VirtualAlloc with PAGE_READWRITE (not execute permission). Windows still exec'd the code. Maybe a kernel hacker could tell me if this is a limitation of the intel VM or another one of Bill's stupid mistakes.
Raid as "backup" is bullshit. A second disk as "backup" is bullshit.
Say a kiddie breaks into your computer and you don't notice it for a week. In the meantime you've deleted the pre-breakin backup to make room for the current backup. Then you're fucked and have to start from scratch.
What good is a backup if you delete it every week? What's the point? Raid is even worse. One "rm *" and your data is gone. What kind of backup is that?
> Scores are very useful to see when you want to > "skim" the comments...
Sort by score. If you don't want to read low scoring posts why bother displaying them? If everyone fears the "system" they'll all be on their best behavior.:-)
BTW, I like the current system. It works fine for me.
Gosh, you think? It's a material science / mechanical engineering contest for college students. My point was that a 10k mpg car is possible for sufficiently relaxed definitions of "car." Which is what the original poster was commenting on.
> 64GB of CD-R's for around $40, which makes for > a price of about $0.06/GB
Don't you people fucking THINK? 64 is of the same order of magnitude as 40. Therefore 40/64 should be about 1, not 0.1 or 100. In fact, 40/64 = 0.625. CD-Rs cost $0.625/G. I know you made a simple/stupid mistake, you calculated 40/(64*100). That is, you corrected for the 100pack twice. But you STILL should have noticed that your answer (100x to small) WAS WRONG. Get yourself a slide rule.
Geiger counters measure ionizing radiation. That is, radiation that ionizes the gas (argon mix?) in the sensor chamber. Alpha particles would do it if you had the proper window material for the chamber (beryllium?). Heavier window materials might block alphas. Since I have ionized various gases (fluorescent bulbs) in my microwave I would suspect that a geiger counter could detect sufficiently strong microwaves.
Also, alphas are helium nuclie (2 protons + 2 neutrons). Betas are either electrons (B-) or positrons (B+). Gammas are photons. Microwaves are (low energy) photons.
Power outputs of cell phones: old mobile bricks, 3 W max @ 900MHz little phones 0.6 W max @ 900 MHz and 1.9GHz
Both types use lower power levels when near a tower (to conserve batteries). I might be wrong about the power levels for the new pcs phones. They're almost certainly under 1 W to conserve batts.
First of all, I built a car for the SAE supermileage competition. The 3 hp briggs & stratton rototiller engines we used can move the cars 30 - 40 mph (at reduced efficiency). However, if you crash at 40 you will probably die. These cars can get 1k mpg if run in burn/kill mode. That is, full throttle for 30 secs, kill the engine, and coast for a couple of minutes (3-5 mins). Running at constant partial throttle will get you about 300 mpg. The international competition allows smaller engines like string trimmer. I think you can buy overhead cam string trimmer engines that are pretty efficient. I have no problem believing string trimmer engines can get 10k mpg when the wind is right. Wind makes a huge difference.
BTW, these cars are fun to drive. Much faster and more powerful than, say, a bicycle. It's like driving an aero go-cart.
> Uhh... The only way to get that kind of energy > out of gasoline/petroleum is if someone has > managed to figure out a way to convert mass > into energy.
Easy! Take a string trimmer engine and graft it onto a 100 lb carbon fiber body just large enough for a 5'0 person. Make the driver lay on their back or stomach to cut the aero cross section. Use bicycle components for the wheels. Run the engine for 30 sec full throttle then coast for 3 minutes. 3000 mpg isn't too difficult. 10k is very realistic, especially in favorable terrain and wind. The SAE runs a similar competition for college teams. Search for "supermileage". BTW, avg speed is around 20 mph.
Malda should make slashdot more opaque. Lessen the trolls' ability to admire their handiwork. For example, make karma invisible to the user. Make scores invisible to those lacking moderator points. If a filter nixxes a troll post, keep the post visible to the troll so he won't know what happened. The system could even generate bogus replies that would be visible only to the troll. Basically, chroot the assholes into an enviroment so convincing they won't know what happened.
Yes, yes. I know about libpcap. I meant to ask is per packet ROUTES can be recorded. This information would be quite useful for tracking down ddos'ers. I don't think it is possible. Again, the article was talking about routes, not just ip headers.
> but how many know what the correct pressure for > their car is or how to inflate tyres correctly?
Easy! The tire says what the correct pressure is on the sidewall. Have you ever tried to run Windows NT with the suggested amount of ram (24MB I think)? Those bastards at Redmond are lying pigs.
You say you don't know much about your microwave oven but you know more than you think. You know your microwave uses electricity to heat water molecules, right? You know that if the display doesn't turn on the machine is unplugged. You know that if the interior light doesn't come on it needs to be replaced, right? You know that spoons and forks are a Bad Idea. You know that cdroms burn with attractive blue sparks.
If you opened up your microwave I'm sure you could identify at least a dozen parts. The gray metal thing with three wires and says "Sanyo 150rpm"; the small brown rice-shaped thing with yellow, purple, orange, and gold stripes; the green disk that says "103 npo", the little white ceramic tube that says "15A 250V"; the black plastic thing says "MC33274D QAT124" and has the same logo as that cell phone company; etc.
You know more about your microwave than you think. Compare that to your average car driver who can't even drive when there is snow out.
> And relying on error correcting components is > not the proper way.
WTF are you talking about?
Say your ecc ram can correct 90% of problems it runs into. Also, let's say that your next level redundancy corrects 99% of problems IT runs into. The combination will then correct 99.9% of problems, which is better than 99%. Funky correlations not withstanding.
Redundancy is good. More redundancy is even better. Just like whip cream & cherries.
Slashdot Mirror
> With regard to dumming down try looking
> up 'thevenin load' which is the consolidated
> impedance at any point in a circuit model.
Try looking it up yourself. What's the thevenin equivalent of an oscillator?
Ryan
And why shouldn't Timothy start his sentences with "and"? His choice of words inhibits neither semantic clarity nor voiced flow. Any other requirement is imagined.
Ryan
About the class A current (or crossover current). I should have made it more clear why I though it might be important. I don't have any experience with the sorts of cmos geometries used in microprocessors but I have played around with push pull drivers that act a bit like a cmos output stage. The cmos output transistors are surely designed with threshold voltages to minimize overlap but the crossover current still occurs. The current pulse has a length that is dependant on operating voltage but not frequency. Therefore, as frequency increases, the crossover current pulse increases a larger portion of the clock period. This will result in a linear increase in power consumption...
I went to the fridge and forgot what I was writing about. What the hell, I'll submit his anyway. whatever
Ryan
Ahem, you don't know how cmos works. Allow me to explain...
...ohm's law...
A cmos circuit is composed of complementary pairs of mos transistors (hence the name cmos). A mos transistor works more or less like a switch. A voltage on the gate pin allows a current to flow on between the other two pins (transistors have 3 pins). The gate of a mos transistor looks like a little capacitor. You need to charge up the capacitor to turn on the transistor. The output of each cmos gate has two mos transistors, one goes to the supply (about 2 volts), and the other goes to ground (zero volts). The gate turns on one (and only one) of the transistors to select a binary output level. If both transistors were on a short circuit would occur.
There are three sources of power consumption in a cmos circuit. (1) leakage currents (very small), (2) charging and discharging the gate capacitors, and (3) so called "class A current."
The first item, leakage, is very very small. Several orders of magnitude smaller than the other two. It is independent of operating frequency.
The second item on the list, charging/discharging current, is quite important. It takes a fixed amount of energy to charge the gate capacitor and force the transistor to change state. At higher clock rates you change state more often. Since power is simply energy per unit time, the power consumed from these charging currents is linear with respect to operating frequency. Double the frequency, double the power consumption. BTW, you can force the capacitor to charge more quickly if you increase the supply voltage. Sometimes this is necessary for overclocking. Higher voltages will lead to higher power dissipation (though not necessarily increased current (for a given frequency)).
The last item, "class A current" is caused when both transistors in a cmos output are on at the same time. Since the transistorgates have small capacitors, they can't turn on and off instantaneously. Therefore, when the gate changes state, there will be a short period where both transistors are partially on. This overlapping conduction causes a sizeable current to flow; a short circuit of sorts. This is the so called "class A current." The exact magnitude of this current is dependent on the particulars of the transistor design and the clocking waveforms. It's hard to say what happens to class A current as clock rates go up except that power consumption increases.
BTW, in the process of dumbing down something that isn't all that complicated to begin with you said some pretty silly things:
Electromigration is the only thing that can cause physical damage to the chips besides frying it due to overvoltage.
Heat, static, current, etc. Electromigration pales in comparison to soldering irons, drills, and other tools of the trade.
as those gates expand, they start passing more current
MOS has a negative tempco (unlike BJTs). They conduct LESS current when they are hot. That's why you don't need to worry about thermal runaway when playing with power mosfets.
More current = more heat
No. P = IV, you know that.
Now the more current that is passing, the more likely it is to "jump" the gate
WTF?
without spending weeks explaining
Doesn't take weeks. Cmos is pretty simple.
Current is what causes heat, NOT voltage.
No. See above.
Your processor is not a resistor. It's not that simple.
a (slight) increase in heat production due to the higher frequencies
Large increase. Greater than linear.
> This won't work, due to how chips are
> manufactured.
Sure it'll work. Use laser trimming to cut traces on the die before it is packages like they do for precision analog components. Or embed a couple bits of eprom on the die and program it after packaging and testing. It's all really quite simple. 1970's technology.
Ryan
paypao, paypak, paypap
Why, one could make a beowuli clustei.
Ryan
> I hacked your firewall. YOU SUCK!
Dude! Don't do that. I cracked his machine and the prick came and trashed MY computer. Vindictive little fucker.
Ryan
You'd think the virtual memory system could just deny execute access to memory alloc'ed by C. I gave it a try using VirtualAlloc with PAGE_READWRITE (not execute permission). Windows still exec'd the code. Maybe a kernel hacker could tell me if this is a limitation of the intel VM or another one of Bill's stupid mistakes.
Ryan
Raid as "backup" is bullshit.
A second disk as "backup" is bullshit.
Say a kiddie breaks into your computer and you don't notice it for a week. In the meantime you've deleted the pre-breakin backup to make room for the current backup. Then you're fucked and have to start from scratch.
What good is a backup if you delete it every week? What's the point? Raid is even worse. One "rm *" and your data is gone. What kind of backup is that?
Ryan
> It is just as absurd as saying that 1 gram is
> more than 1 coulomb.
1 C weighs 5.69ng. Therefore 1 gram IS more than 1 C. Ha, ha.
Ryan
> Scores are very useful to see when you want to
:-)
> "skim" the comments...
Sort by score. If you don't want to read low scoring posts why bother displaying them? If everyone fears the "system" they'll all be on their best behavior.
BTW, I like the current system. It works fine for me.
Ryan
> ... is another Not Ready for Prime Time Player.
Gosh, you think? It's a material science / mechanical engineering contest for college students. My point was that a 10k mpg car is possible for sufficiently relaxed definitions of "car." Which is what the original poster was commenting on.
Ryan
> slide rules generally are of no value in
> establishing anything about the order of
> magnitude
Yes, but they would give you some practice. You wouldn't have made those errors if you were forced to think about magnitude.
BTW, sorry I yelled. Slashdot's overall error rate seems a bit high today. It was getting on my nerves.
Ryan
> 64GB of CD-R's for around $40, which makes for
> a price of about $0.06/GB
Don't you people fucking THINK? 64 is of the same order of magnitude as 40. Therefore 40/64 should be about 1, not 0.1 or 100. In fact, 40/64 = 0.625. CD-Rs cost $0.625/G. I know you made a simple/stupid mistake, you calculated 40/(64*100). That is, you corrected for the 100pack twice. But you STILL should have noticed that your answer (100x to small) WAS WRONG. Get yourself a slide rule.
Ryan
I don't know how you came up with those numbers, man. Remedial math for you!
Generic 12x CDR 100pack
$40/65G = $0.62/G
TDK 12x certified w/warranty 100pack
$82/65G = $1.26/G
Hotan 5.2G rewriteable dvd-ram
$19/5.2G = $3.65/G
Maxtor 61G 9614U8 DiamondMax 5400rpm EIDE
$238/61G = $3.90/G
Ryan
Ever used a tadpole? Damn those things get hot. My pants never had wrinkles when I carried a tadpole. (Tadpole makes sparc laptops).
Ryan
Geiger counters measure ionizing radiation. That is, radiation that ionizes the gas (argon mix?) in the sensor chamber. Alpha particles would do it if you had the proper window material for the chamber (beryllium?). Heavier window materials might block alphas. Since I have ionized various gases (fluorescent bulbs) in my microwave I would suspect that a geiger counter could detect sufficiently strong microwaves.
Also, alphas are helium nuclie (2 protons + 2 neutrons). Betas are either electrons (B-) or positrons (B+). Gammas are photons. Microwaves are (low energy) photons.
Ryan
Power outputs of cell phones:
old mobile bricks, 3 W max @ 900MHz
little phones 0.6 W max @ 900 MHz and 1.9GHz
Both types use lower power levels when near a tower (to conserve batteries). I might be wrong about the power levels for the new pcs phones. They're almost certainly under 1 W to conserve batts.
Ryan
First of all, I built a car for the SAE supermileage competition. The 3 hp briggs & stratton rototiller engines we used can move the cars 30 - 40 mph (at reduced efficiency). However, if you crash at 40 you will probably die. These cars can get 1k mpg if run in burn/kill mode. That is, full throttle for 30 secs, kill the engine, and coast for a couple of minutes (3-5 mins). Running at constant partial throttle will get you about 300 mpg. The international competition allows smaller engines like string trimmer. I think you can buy overhead cam string trimmer engines that are pretty efficient. I have no problem believing string trimmer engines can get 10k mpg when the wind is right. Wind makes a huge difference.
BTW, these cars are fun to drive. Much faster and more powerful than, say, a bicycle. It's like driving an aero go-cart.
Ryan
>> ...10000 mpg...
> Uhh... The only way to get that kind of energy
> out of gasoline/petroleum is if someone has
> managed to figure out a way to convert mass
> into energy.
Easy! Take a string trimmer engine and graft it onto a 100 lb carbon fiber body just large enough for a 5'0 person. Make the driver lay on their back or stomach to cut the aero cross section. Use bicycle components for the wheels. Run the engine for 30 sec full throttle then coast for 3 minutes. 3000 mpg isn't too difficult. 10k is very realistic, especially in favorable terrain and wind. The SAE runs a similar competition for college teams. Search for "supermileage". BTW, avg speed is around 20 mph.
Ryan
Malda should make slashdot more opaque. Lessen the trolls' ability to admire their handiwork. For example, make karma invisible to the user. Make scores invisible to those lacking moderator points. If a filter nixxes a troll post, keep the post visible to the troll so he won't know what happened. The system could even generate bogus replies that would be visible only to the troll. Basically, chroot the assholes into an enviroment so convincing they won't know what happened.
Or browse at +2 I suppose...
Ryan
Yes, yes. I know about libpcap. I meant to ask is per packet ROUTES can be recorded. This information would be quite useful for tracking down ddos'ers. I don't think it is possible. Again, the article was talking about routes, not just ip headers.
Ryan
> but how many know what the correct pressure for
> their car is or how to inflate tyres correctly?
Easy! The tire says what the correct pressure is on the sidewall. Have you ever tried to run Windows NT with the suggested amount of ram (24MB I think)? Those bastards at Redmond are lying pigs.
Ryan
You say you don't know much about your microwave oven but you know more than you think. You know your microwave uses electricity to heat water molecules, right? You know that if the display doesn't turn on the machine is unplugged. You know that if the interior light doesn't come on it needs to be replaced, right? You know that spoons and forks are a Bad Idea. You know that
cdroms burn with attractive blue sparks.
If you opened up your microwave I'm sure you could identify at least a dozen parts. The gray metal thing with three wires and says "Sanyo 150rpm"; the small brown rice-shaped thing with yellow, purple, orange, and gold stripes; the green disk that says "103 npo", the little white ceramic tube that says "15A 250V"; the black plastic thing says "MC33274D QAT124" and has the same logo as that cell phone company; etc.
You know more about your microwave than you think. Compare that to your average car driver who can't even drive when there is snow out.
Ryan
> And relying on error correcting components is
> not the proper way.
WTF are you talking about?
Say your ecc ram can correct 90% of problems it runs into. Also, let's say that your next level redundancy corrects 99% of problems IT runs into. The combination will then correct 99.9% of problems, which is better than 99%. Funky correlations not withstanding.
Redundancy is good. More redundancy is even better. Just like whip cream & cherries.
Ryan