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Force Fields And Plasma Shields Get Closer
one2boo writes: "I guess watching countless hours of Star Trek has paid off for Mounir Laroussi, an electrical and computer engineer at Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Va. Space.com writes: 'Laroussi has literally put plasma on the table: devising an apparatus that creates a mini-plasma inside a Plexiglas cube by passing an electric current through helium gas via specially calibrated electrodes.' This advance in 'Plasma Shields' will allow the shielding and cloaking of satellites and spacecraft. Low-temperature plasmas could one day also make possible an entire new generation of miniature lasers and ultra-low-energy fluorescent light tubes. You can read more on this story here." And for some reason, the relatively low power requirements remind of me of the guts of the Improbability Drive.
Mr. McGuire: I just want to say one word to you... just one word.
Benjamin Braddock: Yes, sir.
Mr. McGuire: Are you listening?
Benjamin Braddock: Yes, sir I am.
Mr. McGuire: "Plasma."
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Let me know when I can get my own personal force-field. Hmm.. if they get thin enough and are not hot, we could have plasma condoms.
Remember kids. You shouldn't be having sex out of wedlock. But if you do end up doing it, remember to play it safe. Shields Up!
Ok.. I already doffed my extra point. That's one less that you moderators will get from me! Ha Ha Ha!
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Yes, this was a *very* bad joke.
Acting stupid isn't much fun when there's someone around who knows better
Did anyone else make the connection that these things are a lot like the personal shield things in Dune? They stop energy blasts and whatnot, but bullets and knives are still able to penetrate.
Kinda similar except for the fact that in Dune, the fields stopped anything that was moving quickly too, so you had to slowly slip the knife into the field to kill someone.
Yum!
Rami James
Guy with sand in his pants.
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rJames.org - illustration
Plasma has the potential to create huge amounts of damage. It will only take a certain amount of time before the miliatary find a "use" for it.
Research into this should not be performed by any scientist who believes he has any morality.
Tinkering with things we don't quite understand and learning about them can lead to all sorts of breakthroughs and new understanding that can help in many other areas. Look at all the cool stuff that has come out of NASA's research. A lot of it really has helped people. It's not just screwing around.
Besides, there are many people researching cancer and other such things. But it would be silly to have everybody doing that sort of research. Then once it's cured, we're stuck with a bunch of biologists and such with nothing to do and then we have to send them back to school to learn how to be computer help-desk workers or something. It would be a sad, sad world.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
Congratulations! A well laid flamebait - a work of art... Let's see how many will fall for this.
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"No se rinde el gallo rojo, sólo cuando ya está muerto."
$HOME is where the
-- silver_p
Heh.. I'm _not_ a troll enthusiast, I just don't care about karma-whoring and don't give a fsck if some moron-moderator mods me down. I would actually like to ruin his flamebait... But, alas, I'm still adding to the posts of the thread...
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"No se rinde el gallo rojo, sólo cuando ya está muerto."
$HOME is where the
-- silver_p
I don't think that rule applies to nicknames on the Internet because capitalization in the name is an integral part.
Rami
--
rJames.org - illustration
And why shouldn't Timothy start his sentences with "and"? His choice of words inhibits neither semantic clarity nor voiced flow. Any other requirement is imagined.
Ryan
plasmas are not so exotic as some people like to make them sound. take your flourescent lamp, for example. to generate them all you need are two electrodes, some hight voltage, and some frequency. as far as using it for a shield goes, how would you make it go _around_ something? i suppose you could have the + at the front of the ship and the - at the end, assuming the rest of your hull was an insulator. you might be able to make it cloak radar if you happened to be using just the right atomic plasma and energy state to absorb just exactly the radar frequency the enemy was using, but was far as a defensive sheild goes, forget it. how much mass is in that plasma? a microgram? at best? that's not a lot of mass to put in the way of a bullet or even a couple kilojoule laser burst. physics before fantasy. micah
First, protecting space vehicles from microdebris. This would be the single most useful space application of this technology for sattelites, shuttles, etc., as dust particles tend to hurt metal a lot if they're travelling at relative speeds of thousands of miles per hour. Since the terrestrial version of this thing has to be contained, however, I don't know if this is possible.
Second, fusion reaction containment. Since several plans for fusion technology seem to involve rather large heat generation, it'd be nice if this could be used to absorb the heat generated by the reaction and transmit it to generator equipment more safely (i.e. without frying the container). If the plasma is guided by magnetic fields (like so many things are), the extra energy should push the plasma bubble bigger, which can be used to induce currents directly. I'm guessing that this isn't a new idea, but I still think it's worth mentioning, especially since this would theoretically be one of the more efficient fusion->electricity conversions.
Either of these would be a huge advance (along with the rest of the stuff mentioned), so this is an impressive development indeed!
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana." --Groucho Marx
I'm only pointing this out to you, grammar nazi, because I want you to be the best damn grammar nazi you can be!
Considering we still haven't a source of light that is even close to efficent, that would seem a much better application than using the plasma for shielding.
The Soviets were experimenting with plasma stealth devices in the late 1980's and apparently the research was continued in the 1990's. They claim that the plasma stealth device can provide nearly 100% absorption of radar waves and make aircraft completely invisible to radar even close to the radar transmitter. Remember, the current stealth techniques provide only low observability, but stealth aircraft can still be tracked by some radar types. The plasma stealth device is of course experimental, but the Russians claim that it works well in a lab.
Yes, I watch too much Star Trek myself, why do you ask? :-)
--GrouchoMarx
--GrouchoMarx
Card-carrying member of the EFF, FSF, and ACLU. Are you?
My opinion is by definition worth more than yours because I have been moderated up to a +1 bonus by the highly qualified moderators who we know are totally non-biased, and will not mod down an opinion they disagree with as a Troll.
(Well, you did say "talk shit" so I am.)
1. Because of its frequent misuse, using the word and at the beginning of a sentence is not widely understood. For those of you who didn't realize, the previous post illustrates how to start a sentence with the word and or the word but. This post of course illustrates how to start a sentence with the word Because or the word Opprobrium
2."best damn grammar nazi you can be" come on people - it's funny
3. isn't that -infinite- improbability drive?
4. Opprobrium incurred by failing to be a good grammar nazi is unfortunately greater than that of those who fail to produce an infinite improbability drive or at least a manned mars mission after so many years whilst Star Wars technology continues to flow freely. (and I do mean Star Wars, not Star Trek. Think Ronald Reagan)
$ cat < /dev/mouse
DCUP spokesperson Dr Eric Mbunge sees a bright future for the penal application of cold plasmas. "With this technology we could execute prisoners by the batch, instead of one at a time," explains Dr Mbunge. "There would be this purple glow, and they'd all fall to the floor. Dead. It would be just like Star Trek."
When it was pointed out that Star Trek does not feature executions, Dr Mbunge responded, "It would if it was set in Texas."
The Department of Cruel and Unusual Punishments has not developed any new execution technologies since the introduction of the lethal injection in 1974. Its 1984 invention, the "microwave chair", was never used in Texas prisons because of fears that it might cause adverse health effects to prison wardens.
$ cat < /dev/mouse
Come on, people! How does anyone make the leap from "we struck a plasma in a desktop device" to "we got force fields"?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Surrounding a spacecraft in a plasma would make it a RF white-noise generator.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Excuse me, but to my understanding the ordinary neon fluorescent lamps also contain "plasma" (when they are lit), caused by "electric current vis specially calibrated electrodes"....
The article has a rather high hype-to-explanation ratio... so I went looking for the patent they mention. Not so technical as to be incomprehensible, and more useful than the article, IMO. My first impression is that the advance here is the impedance matching system used to maintain the plasma, which allows the compact equipment and low power requirements. (I suppose it searches for the natural resonance of whatever ions you have between the electrodes... just find the lowest-energy state/standing wave at which it remains permittive/permeable.) And if you have low power plus no sealed chamber (1 atm, random molecular gases allowed), it pretty much follows that the result is a low temperature plasma, since plasma tends to radiate continuously. The scalability aspect is nice too... good for more than a toy.
Either I'm misunderstanding something, or the sterilization is done by the radiation from the plasma... basically just using the plasma as an efficient UV lamp. (The sterilization patent talks about sterilizing liquids or gels up to 2cm deep... I can't see doing that with the surface interactions, which might be sufficient for polished tools and the like.) This doesn't appear to be sufficient for a low-volume irradiation system for food, which is unfortunate, because I like my hamburgers juicy. Oh well. (Of course, prions survive irradiation anyway, so I would still have to worry about BSE.)
There is also a separate patent for "surface shielding". Might be fun to set up on your car :) I'm having trouble figuring out how the leakage from this system would be less detectable than the reflected radio waves it would disperse, though... I suppose if you do it right, all the radiation is absorbed by the gases you are ionizing?
Java: the COBOL of the new millenium.
Deflector shields as used in any science fiction starship warp space-time in order to deflect. Therefore EM fields or plasmas have nothing to do with it. Deflectors are more connected to the warp drive. Actually they are the same.
...are ambient-temperature, ionized gasses related to those found deep withing the suns core": geez, this is unbelievable. Can someone explain to me what has been found in the suns CORE, and by whom and when?
Besides this, did anyone read the article and follow the links to see if the story checks out? "Plasmas are capable of shielding satellites": my ass, where's the link to the scientific background?
"plasma" links to a story about plasma propulsion, nice but irrelevant.
"energy systems like the deflector shields" link to a crap story about a medical doctor (!) working on a new Big Bang theory.
"Cold plasma's...
Please keep on posting this high quality space.com stories.
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars
'Star Trek'-esque shields and clocking devices? Come on people - think about it. The plasma might hide the satellite, but it does nothing for the big box keeping the plama in. Im pretty sure the Baddies will be at least be able to spot these big ass glowing boxes. Anyways - being able to keep a substance above its critical point at low temperatures means really really high pressures, and your average satellite isnt designed to withstand pressures youd find at the bottom of the ocean. Putting something into orbit costs its weight in gold - so 8 inch metal isnt the solution.
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"Almost isn't good enough - but it's almost good enough."
-Me
Isn't the reason for the communication blackout during a spacecraft's re-entry due to the ionization of the atmosphere around it? Is the re-entry vehicle also invisible to radar?
Now all we need is a helium atmoshpere, and we're set. Anyone going to volunteer to field-test our shields on the surface of a star?
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What I like about this is the fact you can use it to sterilize foods so they can been sfer to eat and we can produce more and maybe even help so poor guy eat (Wishfull think here)
I have a cast iron pan myself for eggs. Never sees soap - scrub it out with a little salt. But the rest of my cookware, including my pots, are teflon coated. Even burned rice cleans up easy.
"The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.
Who cares :)
Troc's dubious podcast and blog: http://www.trocnet.net
Basically there are two different approaches to research:
- Looking at the current knowledge and trying to extend and apply it
- Think up stuff that would be wonderful to have and then try to find a way to get there
Obviously you don't think much of the second, but if you get down to it, it's just as valid and effective - if it's not overdone.The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
--Henry Kissinger
Damn, I forgot this: Plasma and force fields are what fusion reactors are made of, so this line of research could turn out to finally create the definitive clean energy source!
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
--Henry Kissinger
1. Stand on dry carpet
2. Plug in 9000 volt neon transformer
3. Connect to one side of output. Other side is not connected.
4. Hold flourescent tube up in the air. It will glow.
Burning rice?!!
Aww come on, it's not that hard to cook rice!
We're talking about 'star trek' style technology and we can't even boil water without cocking it up!
All spelling mistakes are in my mind and are faithfully reproduced by my fingers
Also, in the literatary work "The Time Machine", while traveling through time, the character sees something thats description resembles an atomic explosion. This was written before there was ever even a theory for atomic warfare. Science fiction can be non-fiction from 200 years later.
So given that
a) You don't live near the uranium mines, or are in any way dependent of the nature surrounding it
b) there are no more nuclear power plant accidents, ever
c) you don't live near the place all the waste ends up at (and don't worry about all the things that can go wrong with it for the next couple of thousand years)
then I suppose you can call nuclear power clean.
Is this new? Sounds like a light bulb to me.
Government of the people, by corporate executives, for corporate profits.
So does this mean that the first the policeman manning the radar speed trap will see is this purple blur flying past at 200km/h?
I want one!
If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
If you knew your (recent) history and saw the older star treks, you would know why your statement is illfounded. Just b/c something is in SF right now, doesn't mean it won't be. Most of the things thought to be pure fantasy in the original star trek is common place now. Science fiction is called just that because it does start off inthe basis of science.
Plasma shields, huh? Wouldn't it be nice if condoms were based on that principle? I mean...talking about 'bursts' of energy...
Right on! This marks the second of the only 2 reasons I'm proud to be an ODU grad! (The first was that Mr. Rogers spoke at graduation last summer.)
The Divine Creatrix in a Mortal Shell that stays Crunchy in Milk
The House Between - Original Sci-Fi Series
Wouldn't something that reflects radar energy 'like a mirror' be rather pointless as a cloaking device? Shurely better to scatter or absorb said energy.
Why is it that many people who claim to support standards have such atrocious spelling and grammar?
I don't see how this could be used to cloak/shield a satellite - Space is a vacuum, and hence all of the precious gas would leak. Plus this needs two large (read: radar-reflecting) plates on the sides.
BUT - From what I recall, among other things the maximum power for a given laser is proportional to the number of excited atoms capable of radiating, i.e. the density of the gas in the case of a gas laser. With this kind of plasma-generating scheme, you would need a far smaller laser to get the same amount of power (Or conversely, you could get far more power out of currently-sized lasers).
The patent applications don't mention the use of carbon dioxide as a gas to generate plasma from - But I'm willing to bet that unless there is some strange property of CO2 that prevents this from working (probably not, given the variety of other gases listed), CO2 has been tried.
Carbon dioxide is one of the best gases for making high-power lasers. CO2 lasers are much more efficient than most other gas lasers, and are the easiest way for an amateur (or relative amateur, you still need glass-blowing skills...) to make a high-powered laser capable of cutting through numerous materials. (CO2 lasers are well within the range of a serious hobbyist, as opposed to some of the more exotic lasers in existence.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Heavier than air flight was science fiction. Rockets to the moon were science fiction. Now, 'potions' is in the realm of fantasy, not science fiction, and I can't think of one reference to 'anti-gravity particle cannons'.
It's your kind of thinking that made it 'common knowledge' in the past that the world was flat, and the sun revolved around the earth.
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
Well, the plasma you speak of there refers to the state of matter in which all electrons lose their bonds to nucleuses, and produce a sea of free electrons(metals only give a few electrons for free movement). Your flourecent light bulb isn't remotely capable of generating this. Another thing to note is that this kind of device isn't practical for something in relative motion.. like a car or plane.. the plasma would instantly blow off. But then again, who says somebody won't devise actual and working cold fusion out of this. ;) ...although I'd rather they work on the translucent holographic terminal :D
talk like a pigmi and have hair lik ekramer in singfeld
Thanks a lump for furthering the stereotype that Texans are a bunch of unremorseful, 6-gun wielding cowboys who have nothing better to do than kill things.
I know humor is a difficult concept, particularly for the humor impaired, but try to follow me here:
Texas has an execution wielding, social throwback of a presidential candidate in the form of "dub uh yuh", which they want to inflict upon the rest of the country. This raises public awareness of Texas and its social policies, which are by most people's definition very far to the right (many would say "extreme").
Better get used to the stereotyping. The govorner of Texas and his policies have made Texas ripe for it, just as the Kansas school board made Kansas ripe for their brand of stereotyping.
No one seriously thinks all Texans are idiots, but that won't stop any of us from mocking their more blatant absurdities, and a blood thirsty penal system coupled with draconian laws (at least one couple recently served time in Texas for living together unmarried, and at least a couple of people are serving life without parole for selling hemp of all things) is a better reason than most.
As long as Texas insists on behaving like a collective political and social idiot, with throwback social policies remeniscent of the 19th century, the rest of us will continue to snicker.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
This article talks about "cold plasma", how could a cold plasma protect space vehicle from microdebris ?
And a hot plasma needs a lot of energy to be generated continuously as you don't know when this dust is going to hit you...
As for fusion, I don't understand your point. If you are talking about the "tokamak" fusion, here they are using very hot plasma for creating fusion reaction, which generate fast particle which are used to heat a liquid for exemple. What are the use of cold plasma here ?
Is talking about hot plasma instead of cold plasma off-topic? I don't know.
Is the parent post should have been moderated to +5?
Frankly, I don't think so, given its low quality..
(Sheesh, how to cook rice. It's true - hang around /. long enough and every subject will come up at least once.)
"The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.
"Cold plasmas can cloak satellites and spacecraft from radar view and shield against attack from
certain kinds of energy weapons."
Hmm -- maybe we should work on developing those Energy Weapons before we start shielding our satellites against them?
You wily little troll, you.
Hear hear. George W. Bush puts the "goober" back in "gubernatorial."
2)Superluminal Speed
3)Im pulse Engines
I looked into the abyss, and the abyss looked into me--and we both winked.
What _will_ those DOD boys think of next?
And you're right, very few (if any) subjects go unbroached on /. Part of it's charm.
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
Someone should get to work on an SEP field generator.
Isn't plasma blood?
"To get rice just right, so it's fluffy and not sticky, you have to cook all of the water out, and you can't stir it while it's cooking."
I know you Americans have such strange ways with food. If your rice isn't sticky, how do pick it up with chopsticks? One grain at a time?
joel
Such is the infinite Grace of Popeye.
In the recent Gary Grahm case, Bush had no legal power to prevent his execution. Graham had already been granted a 30 day reprieve from Gov. Ann Richards. Bush could only grant another reprieve if the Department of Paroles recommended one. They did not. After the board made their decision, Bush had just as much control over Graham's fate as did you or I.
P.S. I have lived in Texas for most of my life
Hooptie
"Heavens, it appears that my weewee has been stricken with rigor mortis!" -- Stewie Griffin
Not in Texas. Texas does not have life without parole. There is Life (~40yrs before parole) or death (only in very specific circumstances)
Hooptie
"Heavens, it appears that my weewee has been stricken with rigor mortis!" -- Stewie Griffin
ya know, i hate this. i live in texas. granted i live in austin, which is BARELY texas, austin should be a suburb of LA, really. (having lived in both places i can say that) We hate texas in austin. we tend to like the IDEA of texas...ya know, we're big, we're not southern, not southwest, we're texas, dammit. but then there are the bighaired women and the fascist men to deal with. its frightening...people in the north and west have really no idea the kind of hatred and intolerance that the south is capable of...you have the stereotype, but the real thing is so much more insidious. after i moved from a predominantly black neghborhood in la to a whitebread bubble-town in texas and starting going to a high school with (literally) 8 black people in a graduating class of 1 5 0 0! there was very little of the "i hate n*ggers" mentality and oodles of the "i have nothing against 'african-amurricans'...but..." that...is hatred that i didnt understand till i came to texas. and this hatred is absolutely reflected in the texas DOJ and DOC. Gary Graham (who deserved to die) aside, texas is just popping off innocent people left and right so that the bastard son of the spiritual son of the WORST president of the 20th century can look tough on crime and tap into the hatred deep in the hearts of this goddamn country. i like texas, but i F*CKING HATE TEXANS.
"They think its sexist"
"They think its sexist"
"Well, whats wrong with being sexy?"
Basically, they take a high power microwave source at just the right frequency, point it at something electronic, and it fubars any electronics not tempest/EMP hardened on the spot. At higher powers, it starts cooking the target in question, shielded or not. Sort of like a selective EMP attack. It's nasty and they're already using them.
Oh, it's not a hard thing to do (someone at the last InfoWar conference demoed a gadget he cobbled together with about $200 worth of parts)- but because microwaves can easily kill (it can shorten people lives at low levels and kill them outright at high ones...) if you don't know what in the hell you're doing, I don't reccomend you doing this sort of thing at all.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
those little dust have a LOT of kinetic energy, and the plasma is usually not very dense.
:-)
3 possibility:
1) the plasma is not hot nor dense, it won't stop a dust.
2) the plasma is hot, the "soft material" will have to be very isolating, otherwise you'll have to spend a lot of energy to keep you're plasma hot.
3) the plasma is dense: the "soft material" will have to be quite stiff to handle the pressure.
I think that some kind of "aerogel" would be better suited to protect satelites from dusts, even if it sounds less cool
Notes that this gel have to withstand intense variations of temperature, and a contineous exposure to energetic radiation so finding a suitable material wouldn't be easy.
Low temperature plasmas are currently used to shield the contact surfaces in fusion experiments (i.e. tokamaks), in several versions, with the radiative divertor being the most common technique. Essentially, a high density (relative to the core neutral density) gas is puffed at the point at which the plasma would heath the wall most strongly. This gas then heats and ionizes, and radiates the excess heat rather than letting the wall melt. Unfortunately, a plasma won't absrob the high neutron flux present in all of the current reactor scenarios, so radiative divertors are only a partial solution. The direct conversion of this excess energy to electrical currents through an increase in stored magnetic field/plasma energy is rather more complicated. It would have to involve something like an MHD (magnetohydrodynamic) generator, which is certainly a real idea. In the case of absorbing energy from the edge plasma though, you need to find some trick to create an organized plasma flow (low entropy) of some sort from the pretty high entropy state of the plasma edge. Not entirely unreasonable (tokamaks do self-generate current flows) but beyond the current state of the research. Rest assured, though, people are working on it...
"No one seriously thinks all Texans are idiots,"
id soft is in Texas, isn't it? But, then again, so is Ion Storm.
joel
Such is the infinite Grace of Popeye.
...it's a fixed amount of improbability, so if you come up with a improbability field generator and can compute how improbable a drive would be, you could get it.
Of course, everybody'd have to kill you on the spot, since nobody likes a smart*ss...
(Uh...er...guess I'm in trouble then, aren't I?)
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
Well, as for a bullet, you'd have to use a dense plasma, no question of that- so it'd not be a defense against smart pebbles sorts of "Star Wars Initiative" attacks. As for a kilojoule laser, well, unless the beam hits the target head-on, the plasma field if it's thick enough will deflect the beam because of refraction. Particle beams would have to be neutron ones because a plasma would deflect ion or electron/proton beams- either that or you'd have to pump up the power to exceed the deflective ability of the plasma field. It's sort of effective against those sorts of things.
What this is likely to be effective against is RF based tracking and attacks since those sorts of things are strongly affected by these low-energy plasmas. (Basically, you're going to have to see it to hit it and most of these systems rely on radar to spot targets...)
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
...how is this any different from the "plasma ball" device, which has been on the shelves of novelty shops for years, and which operates by passing an electric current through an inert gas contained within a plexiglas bulb?
The Tyrrany Begins....
Finding God in a Dog
Since NASA is always working on propulsion techniques (the tether, plasma thrusters) to overcome atmospheric friction for a minimal mass expense rather than the inefficient chemical rockets typically used, you would think this would make a rather poor shielding device. Also, the plasma density can no doubt be expressed as a percentage of the gas density--likely a fairly low percentage.
They probably don't mention CO2 because of the large ionization energies involved (for an atomic plasma -- molecular plasmas are beyond my expertise.) I'm not sure that you get a gain in a laser from this -- the CO2 laser transition is a molecular transition that may not exist once the gas is ionized, and the thermal heating due to the RF is not generating the organized state inversion necessary to 'lase'.
Hmm.. I always use equal parts water and rice. Seems to come out perfect. Although I have burnt the bottom on occaision too.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
This is what W would like you to think. However, the truth is that everyone on the board is a Bush appointee, and had Bush asked them to commute the sentence, they would have.
A couple of interesting references are this article where they basically experiment with using a household fluroscent tube as an HF antenna. Or page where a few more references are given.
I have to ask myself with all of this though, what the point of having an radar invisible antenna, that is optically highly visible. I have visions of fluro lit battlefields... D.
It's my understanding that neon tubes are vacuums and this technology works in normal atmospheric pressure.
I'd like to know how they did this at 1atm without melting the walls of the container. I have my doubts.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Is it just me, or does this sound like the first step to light sabers and blasters or what? I'm very excited! :) --Joshua Chambers
In Texas, we don't fuck around with someone's life. That means that every death row inmate is given years to appeal his/her case before they are put to death. That's also why if you take a life in a violent crime, you're going to lose yours.
luckman
luckman
I don't involve myself with flames, much less know how to bait one.
Since they can tune it to absorb radar could this technology be tuned to absorb light? That could make for some very interesting applications.
Or more accurately, if someone loses their life in a violent crime, someone else is going to lose theirs. If it happens to be the person that committed the crime, that's a bonus, but that only happens in about 50% of cases.
--
--
E_NOSIG
"there was very little of the "i hate n*ggers" mentality and oodles of the "i have nothing against 'african-amurricans'...but..." "
What mentality are you talking about? But what? I have lived in Austin all my life and have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe we come from different parts of town (you went to the big W, right? not me) or maybe I would have to be "African-Amurrican" to understand.
P.S. Austinites don't hate Texas. Please don't speak for all of us.
luckman
luckman
I don't involve myself with flames, much less know how to bait one.
Guys, there *was* science fiction before there was sci-fi. By that I mean that force fields, tractor beams, and even pressor beams (opposite of tractor) existed in magazine SF decades before Rodenberry pulled the well-worn parts off the shelf and gave them a Mod paint job. Not a flame; just a reminder that the genre has older and deeper roots than just cheezy TV shows.
I just think it's sad that when I introduce myself as being from Texas, the usual response is "oh, so what do you think about the death penalty?"
Just realize that Texans have a lot of pride in our state. I've been in Michigan for 3 months and still don't know what the state flag looks like. That's odd to me. So please remember when you joke with a Texan about the state, they will want to take it seriously (most likely). Thats all. I now subject myself to whatever heckling you can give.
luckman
luckman
I don't involve myself with flames, much less know how to bait one.
luckman
luckman
I don't involve myself with flames, much less know how to bait one.
Hooptie
"Heavens, it appears that my weewee has been stricken with rigor mortis!" -- Stewie Griffin
Here's another couple of numbers for you: 12% of Americans are black, but 40% of death row inmates are black. Or how about these numbers: a black defendant is twice as likely to be executed (100 since 1973) if his victim is white than if is victim is black (49 since 1973). And a white defendant who kills a white person is 48 times more likely to be executed for killing a white person (242 since 1973) than for killing a black person (5 since 1973). Numbers are from the NAACP Legal Defense Fund.
And here's a list of some wrongful executions that have taken place in the US in the 20th century. Admittedly, only one of the victims on the list was executed since 1973, when the Supreme Court ruled that the death penalty should be reinstated.
There are numbers for you. Will they make any difference? I doubt it... no matter how many numbers people like you see, you want to see more. You'll go on blithely accusing anti-capital punishment types of not providing enough numbers, or the right numbers, or whatever. I look forward to your reply.
Quoted from article:
Laroussi's process, specified in pending patent applications, is scalable; cold-plasma containers of virtually any size are feasible.Okay, I was about to poo-poo the article at this point, since it seemed like it was about neon signs.
Not that neon signs aren't interesting or neat, it's just that when Crookes invented his first discharge tube in the late 1800s, it was news. But it isn't now.
A neon sign; or one of those neat little high-voltage fireglobe things you can buy at The Sharper Image; argon, helium-neon and carbon dioxde lasers already use cold plasma at their cores, crystal lasers like ruby and YAG:ND use xenon strobes (cold plasma) to excite them. For that matter, the strobe lights in a dance bar or the electronic flash on your camera. Even the tiny little NE-2 and NE-2H glow lamps you can buy at Radio Shack for $2 are perfect examples of cold plasma, and as the array of devices I've listed will demonstrate, it's already very versatile and scalable.
Changing the gases inside the device will change the colors. Neon is usually an orangy-red, argon is green, etc. Different mixes of the gases (usually noble (inert)) will result in different electrical and optical properties.
No vacuum pumps are required, since the plasma is generated at normal atmospheric pressure.This is the part that finally made me stop, with some interest.
Plasma is easily creatable both in a vacuum and at atmospheric pressure. All you really need to do is excite a gas, generally using high voltage electricity. The higher the pressure of the gas, generally the higher the voltage required to excite it actually is.
Simply walking across a rug on a dry day and having static electricity jump from your fingertip is a wonderful display of atmospheric pressure plasma. But, like lightning, it's hot; if the spark were continuous, it would eventually burn you.
(As one example, I've built dozens of tesla coils as a hobby, and it's fun to pull a spark off the top of them, using only your fingertip (use proper safety precautions if you try this). That's a great example of atmospheric pressure plasma. But the problem is, it gets damned hot if it arcs for too long to any given spot on your body.)
Consider the temperature of lightning. Fine, there's less energy involved here, so the temperature is less. But I can still pull an arc from my favorite tesla coil, using my fingertip, and then use my other hand to move pieces of paper into the arc. The paper catches fire almost immediately.
Cold plasma exists in neon lightbulbs and numerous other devices. But, at atmospheric pressure it's quite a development. I can't wait to play with it.
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
It's based on making a huge (30km across) plasma which weighs basically nothing and using that to trap solar wind and providing a low, but very significant force- much more than ion drive but lasting a similiar period.
Anyway one of the main problems are that the hot plasma tends to melt the outside of the space craft. Perhaps a cold plasma might be better? Anyway check out the link it's cool space tech!
-WolfWithoutAClause
"Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"Just out of curiosity, would these plasma personal shields and whatnot contribute to the risk of cancers? The studies about cellular technology have me kind of spooked. It seems like we get all gung ho about these kinds of gadgets without thinking about the health consequences, not to mention environmental impact.
a prophet on the burning shore
electroluminescent wire is cheaper, waterproof, and way cool
Yes, plasma does result from charging certain noble gases with energy. Why does this get everyone all excited. The problem is, it's very difficult to control, and to get it to provide a relatively solid barrier could require as many as 10,000 watts of energy, according to most research I read. Sorry to disappoint you'll but you'll have to wait for those personal plasma shields ;)
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Crudely Drawn Games
One of the big showstoppers for a manned mission to Mars is radiation. While astronauts in low earth orbit are protected somewhat by the Earth's Van Allen belts, there is no such protection in deep space between Earth and Mars, and astronauts would end up taking enough radiation to exceed their lifetime dosage limits, increase the risk of cancer and cause all sorts of nasty permanent health problems. If plasma shields could deflect some of that radiation, that would be nice.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
...will be creating a more evenly lit purple-glow effect under low-riders.
-Erik The Red
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
It seems weird that they mention that the plasmas reflect radio waves, so that they can be used to render sats and space vessels invisible to radar. The whole point of radar is that when it bounces off, the reflection is what is detected. Now later he says that it is possible to make it absorb radar, but I am not sure how that is possible. I am not up on my plasma physics, but I don't see how this can be the case. Would it have to be precisely tuned in some way I can't picture, in which case the radar transmitter needs only to change frequency rapidly.
The other thing is that supposing you build this fancy structure around space ships, then just forget about using microwave energy blasts. Tunable X-ray lasers are a possibility using free electron laser technology; visible light passes through these plasmas without any scattering it seems, so probably even visible spectrum lasers have no problem. Hell, what is wrong with regular matter based weapons like mass drivers and rockets. That might be a good use for the radar shielding technology. Missle defense programs depend on being able to detect the incoming object. However, how well can you keep the plasma shield around a rapidly accelerating object? I guess you could fire something from a mass driver, because then it would be moving a constant velocity once it left the gun.
"Politics is for the moment, an equation lasts eternity" -A. Einstein
THIS is really informative!
My source is a (possibly misremembered) report on convicted murderers awaiting execution where DNA evidence was not brought forward in the trial, but DNA testing was subsequently done. Texas, it should be noted, does not allow this, but several other states do, notably Illinois, which now has a moratorium on executions.
So my quote was a little over-generalized. I should have said that 50% of death row inmates who did not have a DNA test at the time of the trial, but did have a DNA test subsequent to conviction, are innocent.
The fact remains that if you are falsely accused of murder, your best chance of getting off is if the real murderer left some DNA behind.
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E_NOSIG
$ cat < /dev/mouse
the mentality is one, not of outright racism as much as just hatred of difference...living on campus (hook 'em) gets away from most of that, but IN MY EXPERIENCE LIVING IN TEXAS it is one of the most hateful places to be. Granted i have only lived in California and Texas, and visited a handful of other states, but Texas just seems to have this underbelly of anger and hatred. You're actually right, i dont mean to speak for an entire city, of course, rather i speak for the collective opinions of my peer group and, obviously myself. I see people around me who insist that they have no problem with x minority group, but also will be insufferably rude to the mexican gardener mowing their lawn in 110 degree heat. There seems to be a very real undercurrent of basic redneck-dom in texas that i dont much appreciate. And like i said, austin is VERY much an exception, hell, i lived in Houston for 4 years and wanted to go absolutely Columbine for most of it. Austin IS the exception, though not fully. having lived in austin your whole life, you have not been fully exposed (or maybe you have, i have no idea) to the people i refer to. Dont know.
"They think its sexist"
"They think its sexist"
"Well, whats wrong with being sexy?"
Animal-rights folks would have even more of a conniption fit if you caged a gorilla for 3 years and then strapped it into a chair and cooked it from the inside out.
Re: 5% So, what you're saying is this: if you were placed on death row and executed for a crime you didn't commit, you'd be fine with that as long as the other 20 people on death row with you were really guilty?
I don't have the data to answer your question, and, frankly, I think your question is flawed. Again, knowing that the state has killed _any_ innocent people is too much.
Please feel free to email me at mcsnee@hotmail.com with your response, as I'm pretty sure this topic is gonna be hard to find soon.
A nearer-term application is cloaking.
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and until I read it, I wouldn't have believed it. Could this technology eventually make radar systems obsolete? What would that do to our missle defense systems? Could I put one on my car to avoid speeding tickets?
--// Hartsock
Live to Code, Code to Live!