Even an inappropriate for "do shows, sell shirts" kind of music (e.g., Greek traditional) must have its professional artists
Um, no. That used to be one of the defining features of "folk" music: it didn't have professional performers.
We Greeks had professional "folk" artists for some milleniums now! And if you consider some of our newer ones, they started recording more than a century ago... for example (not of the oldest, but only because you may recognize it): Misirlou
You say the labels perform a valuable service for the performers. I say they create artificial scarcity, say by promoting only one of many "Greek traditional" bands, thus focusing as many potential "Greek traditional" customers into a single offering as possible.
But everyone can self-publish his work (many do it). Yes, some artists/bands of Greek traditional music are promoted, but that is the usual marketing.
Certainly there is some benefit to the group chosen to be the sole commercial representative of that genre, but the purpose of the label is to take for itself as much of that revenue as possible. They're not the artists' share-and-share-alike friend. They're keeping the goose who lays golden eggs. They're a tax on the performance.
Never wrote that record labels are charities!
As a consumer, I would like to think that my payment benefits the artists, and that someone who sells a million albums at $15 each actually ends up with millions of dollars, not the $50-100k most will actually see. So, as a consumer, I see a label as a used-car salesman standing between me and the performers I would like to reward. Out of the 40x markup between artist and retail, label royalties may only represent 150% markup, but (as a consumer) I tend to lump all of the recording, production, promotion, and distribution cost into "The Label," and that represent somewhere around 20x markup. As a consumer, it's hard for me to understand why a CD that costs $1 to stamp and package, sells for $15, and gets the artist $0.10.
Your numbers are very exaggerated i think. And in any case that must be an issue between the artist and its label.
Hmmm... i wrote about a nuclear power plant because i had in mind an experimental German design -that i think it operates now as production ready in S.Africa- that has some "pasive" safety features as a pebble-bed reactor - i don't remember details, but does a pebble-bed (if theoreticaly is designed for a scenario like the story suggests) reactor needs such measures?
Assuming you mean proper operation and not melt-down many nuclear power plants have too many dependencies- they require cooling and maintenance to keep working.
When i wrote "nuclear power plant (and its control room)" i had in mind a German design that i think operates in South Africa - i don't remember the details, it was experimental few years ago, it had some kind of cover for its fuel that protected it from melt-downs.
That is great... but for a sci-fiction stupid question my answer is better, since it has a control room - imagine that you are the only surviror, go inside it, and in some sign you read: "NO SMOKING".
When i wrote "nuclear power plant (and its control room)" i had in mind a German design that i think operates in South Africa - i don't remember the details but i think it covers everything you wrote.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but that is a decision that must be made between them (labels -"e" and/or the conventional- and artists) based on their already existing and/or future contracts.
Even an inappropriate for "do shows, sell shirts" kind of music (e.g., Greek traditional) must have its professional artists, who support themselves ("making [just enough] money" to exist as professionals) thanks to record labels - i, as an amateur musician, don't need them, but professional artists need so much time to develop their skills (or compose) that it is against art to force them do other stuff also.
I see. Beaten Wife Syndrome. Or Stockholm Syndrome.
hahaha! You think they made me their bitch? A great Greek song about a lady leaving her husband in a winter's morning since the air asked from her a heroic decision, paying upfront for renting a new house, but when the night comes she want's to return and ask for forgiveness, but she is ashamed to confess to her husbant that without him is is half - enjoy (or not!) (it would be "Greek" for you but anyway, just for the music!).
All artists in the examples live from records (the first case is well known, the second is one well known in Greece candicate for the continuation of our traditional music, the third is my favourite cover even if the artist is not very popular) - and not all music is appropriate for "do shows, sell shirts"!
In 1969, man landed on the moon. Most of the planet learned about it 1.3 seconds later.
I am sure that if we relied on Slashdot for this story we would had learned it much much later - but a news story about a train derail that even a Greek like me just watched it in Greece news stations (and i am sure American did in theirs!) is posted in Slashdot... why?
the fact that you care enough to comment indicates you're lying
if the story was really as you say you would not have clicked
but you clicked and even made a comment, so clearly it worked for you
congratulations for participating
I made my comment less than ten minutes this story posted in Slashdot, and 3-4 minutes after i watched it in a Greek TV station from Athens - and since is the "morning news" for us, i now watched it 2 more times*!!!
So, in a world that is so small, you think this story is appropriate for Slashdot?
I report to fellow Athenian Slashdoters that i just learned we have a small trafic problem in Syntagma square.
* You can use this link http://www.skai.gr/player/tvli... to watch in live streaming the Greek (Athens) station i watch, but i promise to you that i will return in your comment in few hours, when the Greek station's news is posted to youtube (as they usualy do), so to see it - it even has the (local Greece) time
Because some people who read slashdot also take the train
Because technology failures are interesting to technology people
Because intrastructure issues are important to the economy that employs slashdot readers
I could accept the later two (even if an accident just happened, without any details of a technical nature, is not a good enough reason to discuss technology/infrastructure issues) - BUT "Because some people who read slashdot also take the train"?
Should i report about Athens' trafic and weather, just in case?
I just don't buy into the B.S. they are doing this for the artists, or that the artists will ever see anything in their pocket from this.
So, you think that the artists are "(ab)used" by the record label...
Erratum for my original comment:
"I can't understand this hostility from non-artists for the record labels, based on some kind of "love for the artists" - artists use record labels for so many things (of both artistic and non-artistic nature), so i think this idea of "the (ab)used by the record label artist" to be most of the times just a hypocritical justfication of piracy. I am an amateur musician - if i wanted i could use a record label to help me in a professional career, or i could self-promote/publish my work."
I can't understand this hate from non-artists for the record labels, based on some kind of "love for the artists" - artists use record labels for so many things (of both artistic and non-artistic nature), so i think this idea of "the (ab)used by the record label artist" to be most of the times just a hypocritical justfication of piracy.
I am an amateur musician - if i wanted i could use a record label to help me in a professional career, or i could self-promote/publish my work.
Is this ethical? most people eat meat and have no problem for using animals as things, but this is a little more evil that that isn't?
It is more evil.
I eat meat, i benefit from experiments on animal, i hunt/fish, i used animals for other things, e.g., horse-carriages, i even turtured creatures as a kid, but i also find this is "a little more evil" - i may be a hypocrite, but i feel questions about ethics must be raised.
It is very common among programmers, even native english speakers, to use copious amounts of parenthesis. I suspect this is due to their use in programming language.
And the "laziness" parenthesis train you about - good for coding machines, bad for natural language.
Also, many of us math-minded folk had a disdain for humanities and language courses.
Something i find more stupid the older i get - and i am old enough already...
I was taught grammar in a way that reminded me of math - I was given sentences, asked to identify the parts, and asked to reorganize them in many different ways. It reminded me of algebra, reorganizing formulas while learning order of operations.
My special school was experimental, and my special class in this special school was experimental also! Many decades ago in Greece we had few such academias for teachers to train and/or test educational programs, and i was in a "montessori" kind of enviroment - great for many things, but not for making sure you will learn your grammar lesson. But i was taught, among so many other great things, to recognize good teachers!
While I'm not the best communicator, I owe a lot of my ability to that class.
As a Greek i communicate better when i can also use some "body language", so i have many problems with writen communication, especially among non-Greeks. The best communicator is the one that can communicate - and you communicated your wisdom, not only about grammar. I recognize in both your comments your gratitude to your teachers, something that moves me deeply. And now i find myself listening to a Greek song about "school years and their troubles" and "how i would trade everything i have just to become kid and return in my class...". It would be "all Greek to you", but even just for its music... to you my friend!
"The Lord's path is written as a good summary in the New Testament as "love each other" - do not accuse the Lord for what the people do, and don't accuse those on the Lord's path for what those not on His path do."
thats the usual, when its good, praise the lord and when its bad blame the people. Try reading the Old Testament as well which was never renounced by the new testament bods or current religious supporters
The New Testament (writen in Koine -i.e., "common"- Greek, called "Kaine" meaning New AND Upgraded) is what the vast majority of Christians (e.g., Orthodox like me, Catholics, most Protestants) think as their Book - the Old Testament (i.e., the Jew's Book, in Jewish - with the "Greek" as the most common ORIGINAL translation used in the world) is a Book of great wisdom (i read it), very misunderstood (e.g., the bad human nature stories are mistakenly considered by many as God's acts), that the vast majority of Christians don't read in their churches.
In any organization (e.g., military, religious), any older order is cease to exist if it conflicts with newer orders.
Slashdot Mirror
Even an inappropriate for "do shows, sell shirts" kind of music (e.g., Greek traditional) must have its professional artists
Um, no. That used to be one of the defining features of "folk" music: it didn't have professional performers.
We Greeks had professional "folk" artists for some milleniums now! And if you consider some of our newer ones, they started recording more than a century ago... for example (not of the oldest, but only because you may recognize it): Misirlou
You say the labels perform a valuable service for the performers. I say they create artificial scarcity, say by promoting only one of many "Greek traditional" bands, thus focusing as many potential "Greek traditional" customers into a single offering as possible.
But everyone can self-publish his work (many do it). Yes, some artists/bands of Greek traditional music are promoted, but that is the usual marketing.
Certainly there is some benefit to the group chosen to be the sole commercial representative of that genre, but the purpose of the label is to take for itself as much of that revenue as possible. They're not the artists' share-and-share-alike friend. They're keeping the goose who lays golden eggs. They're a tax on the performance.
Never wrote that record labels are charities!
As a consumer, I would like to think that my payment benefits the artists, and that someone who sells a million albums at $15 each actually ends up with millions of dollars, not the $50-100k most will actually see. So, as a consumer, I see a label as a used-car salesman standing between me and the performers I would like to reward. Out of the 40x markup between artist and retail, label royalties may only represent 150% markup, but (as a consumer) I tend to lump all of the recording, production, promotion, and distribution cost into "The Label," and that represent somewhere around 20x markup. As a consumer, it's hard for me to understand why a CD that costs $1 to stamp and package, sells for $15, and gets the artist $0.10.
Your numbers are very exaggerated i think. And in any case that must be an issue between the artist and its label.
Hmmm... i wrote about a nuclear power plant because i had in mind an experimental German design -that i think it operates now as production ready in S.Africa- that has some "pasive" safety features as a pebble-bed reactor - i don't remember details, but does a pebble-bed (if theoreticaly is designed for a scenario like the story suggests) reactor needs such measures?
Assuming you mean proper operation and not melt-down many nuclear power plants have too many dependencies- they require cooling and maintenance to keep working.
When i wrote "nuclear power plant (and its control room)" i had in mind a German design that i think operates in South Africa - i don't remember the details, it was experimental few years ago, it had some kind of cover for its fuel that protected it from melt-downs.
In contrast these can run for many decades:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Even longer if you design them accordingly.
That is great... but for a sci-fiction stupid question my answer is better, since it has a control room - imagine that you are the only surviror, go inside it, and in some sign you read: "NO SMOKING".
When i wrote "nuclear power plant (and its control room)" i had in mind a German design that i think operates in South Africa - i don't remember the details but i think it covers everything you wrote.
A nuclear power plant (and its control room)?
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but that is a decision that must be made between them (labels -"e" and/or the conventional- and artists) based on their already existing and/or future contracts.
Not all music is appropriate for "making money".
Even an inappropriate for "do shows, sell shirts" kind of music (e.g., Greek traditional) must have its professional artists, who support themselves ("making [just enough] money" to exist as professionals) thanks to record labels - i, as an amateur musician, don't need them, but professional artists need so much time to develop their skills (or compose) that it is against art to force them do other stuff also.
My God... you're such a chemisty NaZi!
This makes me sad for a strange reason: i am so old ("masterbate with ascii art" old) that i remember some great pixel art (not just in games).
They're not too concerned about plurals and possessives either.
I like NaZi's...
I see. Beaten Wife Syndrome. Or Stockholm Syndrome.
hahaha! You think they made me their bitch? A great Greek song about a lady leaving her husband in a winter's morning since the air asked from her a heroic decision, paying upfront for renting a new house, but when the night comes she want's to return and ask for forgiveness, but she is ashamed to confess to her husbant that without him is is half - enjoy (or not!) (it would be "Greek" for you but anyway, just for the music!).
Record labels exists because artists need them.
Vangelis and Papa - world famous enough, don't do shows, don't sell shirts
A young Greek girl - famous enough in Greece, don't do shows, don't sell shirts
Some great cover - not famous at all, don't do shows, don't sell shirts
All artists in the examples live from records (the first case is well known, the second is one well known in Greece candicate for the continuation of our traditional music, the third is my favourite cover even if the artist is not very popular) - and not all music is appropriate for "do shows, sell shirts"!
In 1969, man landed on the moon. Most of the planet learned about it 1.3 seconds later.
I am sure that if we relied on Slashdot for this story we would had learned it much much later - but a news story about a train derail that even a Greek like me just watched it in Greece news stations (and i am sure American did in theirs!) is posted in Slashdot... why?
the fact that you care enough to comment indicates you're lying
if the story was really as you say you would not have clicked
but you clicked and even made a comment, so clearly it worked for you
congratulations for participating
I made my comment less than ten minutes this story posted in Slashdot, and 3-4 minutes after i watched it in a Greek TV station from Athens - and since is the "morning news" for us, i now watched it 2 more times*!!!
So, in a world that is so small, you think this story is appropriate for Slashdot?
I report to fellow Athenian Slashdoters that i just learned we have a small trafic problem in Syntagma square.
* You can use this link http://www.skai.gr/player/tvli... to watch in live streaming the Greek (Athens) station i watch, but i promise to you that i will return in your comment in few hours, when the Greek station's news is posted to youtube (as they usualy do), so to see it - it even has the (local Greece) time
American's don't care about all the stupid shit that happens in Greece either, so welcome to the club.
I would consider it inappropriate for Slashdot even if it had hapened in Greece.
Anyway: the weather in Athens is good and the trafic not bad yet...
Why is this on Slashdot...!?
Because some people who read slashdot also take the train
Because technology failures are interesting to technology people
Because intrastructure issues are important to the economy that employs slashdot readers
I could accept the later two (even if an accident just happened, without any details of a technical nature, is not a good enough reason to discuss technology/infrastructure issues) - BUT "Because some people who read slashdot also take the train"?
Should i report about Athens' trafic and weather, just in case?
2 thoughts:
The world is so small nowadays.
Why is this on Slashdot...!?
Record labels abuse the talent and then corrupt the law.
I disagree, as i already wrote - but (don't ask me why!) i want to ask you: piracy help artists?
Hate ?
O.K, sorry, bad word choise - hostility?
I just don't buy into the B.S. they are doing this for the artists, or that the artists will ever see anything in their pocket from this.
So, you think that the artists are "(ab)used" by the record label...
Erratum for my original comment:
"I can't understand this hostility from non-artists for the record labels, based on some kind of "love for the artists" - artists use record labels for so many things (of both artistic and non-artistic nature), so i think this idea of "the (ab)used by the record label artist" to be most of the times just a hypocritical justfication of piracy. I am an amateur musician - if i wanted i could use a record label to help me in a professional career, or i could self-promote/publish my work."
I am an amateur musician - if i wanted i could use a record label to help me in a professional career, or i could self-promote/publish my work.
Is this ethical? most people eat meat and have no problem for using animals as things, but this is a little more evil that that isn't?
It is more evil. I eat meat, i benefit from experiments on animal, i hunt/fish, i used animals for other things, e.g., horse-carriages, i even turtured creatures as a kid, but i also find this is "a little more evil" - i may be a hypocrite, but i feel questions about ethics must be raised.
Once you have X amount of software written in a language the language will never die. Fortran, Cobol, c, c++ will probably never die.
Good... Java needs some of its oldest rivals to mock!
it's not because the technology is bad - it's because you haven't learned how to use it right
Well, technically this is an ideology... and it's not because this ideology is bad - it t's because they haven't learned when to use it right!
It will be better for me not to angry more fellow Slashdoter with my Greek lessons, but technology and ideology are both Greek words...
Glad I could help.
As a Greek helping barbarians!
It is very common among programmers, even native english speakers, to use copious amounts of parenthesis. I suspect this is due to their use in programming language.
And the "laziness" parenthesis train you about - good for coding machines, bad for natural language.
Also, many of us math-minded folk had a disdain for humanities and language courses.
Something i find more stupid the older i get - and i am old enough already...
I was taught grammar in a way that reminded me of math - I was given sentences, asked to identify the parts, and asked to reorganize them in many different ways. It reminded me of algebra, reorganizing formulas while learning order of operations.
My special school was experimental, and my special class in this special school was experimental also! Many decades ago in Greece we had few such academias for teachers to train and/or test educational programs, and i was in a "montessori" kind of enviroment - great for many things, but not for making sure you will learn your grammar lesson. But i was taught, among so many other great things, to recognize good teachers!
While I'm not the best communicator, I owe a lot of my ability to that class.
As a Greek i communicate better when i can also use some "body language", so i have many problems with writen communication, especially among non-Greeks. The best communicator is the one that can communicate - and you communicated your wisdom, not only about grammar. I recognize in both your comments your gratitude to your teachers, something that moves me deeply. And now i find myself listening to a Greek song about "school years and their troubles" and "how i would trade everything i have just to become kid and return in my class...". It would be "all Greek to you", but even just for its music... to you my friend!
"The Lord's path is written as a good summary in the New Testament as "love each other" - do not accuse the Lord for what the people do, and don't accuse those on the Lord's path for what those not on His path do." thats the usual, when its good, praise the lord and when its bad blame the people. Try reading the Old Testament as well which was never renounced by the new testament bods or current religious supporters
The New Testament (writen in Koine -i.e., "common"- Greek, called "Kaine" meaning New AND Upgraded) is what the vast majority of Christians (e.g., Orthodox like me, Catholics, most Protestants) think as their Book - the Old Testament (i.e., the Jew's Book, in Jewish - with the "Greek" as the most common ORIGINAL translation used in the world) is a Book of great wisdom (i read it), very misunderstood (e.g., the bad human nature stories are mistakenly considered by many as God's acts), that the vast majority of Christians don't read in their churches.
In any organization (e.g., military, religious), any older order is cease to exist if it conflicts with newer orders.