While i surely like many of the usual rock/pop/etc, even now that i am very old to rock and roll (but too young to die!), i had the great luck to grow up in Greece where Greek traditional and more modern music, plus non-Greek NON-rock/pop/etc (e.g., European clasical/baroque, Asian) music, was available thanks to mass media (radio/tv). So i "understand Great music" (as you write) more easily i think.
An example that i just listening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... (great music in my opinion, one of the best i heard in my life, but that is not my point).
"Music Listening" is something you must "train your ear" to do it well - the younger you begin, the better. And the best way i think is to stop this pop/rock monoculture. Unfortunately kids/teenagers (especialy in USA i am afraid) are exposed almost exclusively to "popular" music.
It's the modern "Plan 9 from Outer Space": So bad it's good.
But Battlefield Earth was supposed to be funny (as it was... i think!), more of a "parodic" way, not in a ridiculous way as "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ended up to be - well, haters gonna hate...
Are you sure you're not thinking about Starship Troopers? I liked the over-the-top parody of "everything is militarized" point of view from the first day I saw it.
I am sure i am thinking about Battlefield Earth - more sure because after i posted my comment i saw an earlier writing "Battlefield Earth... sucks"! I even double cheched in the internet before i anwser to you...
Never watched Starship Troopers - i will check it. By the way, one reason i liked Battlefield Earth was because its humor had much to do with "military relations" (i cant think a good term in English), and it reminded me many things from my own military service.
Christian is also known for directing 2000's Battlefield Earth
Which is, among other things, a very funny movie - after i saw it, i always wondered why it is considered "one of the worse movies" (as i read about in some "lists")... people missed its humor.
As a Scandinavian, I wonder what claim the Greeks may have had to intellectual fame since the great Aristotle. The misfits from Nicosia? Petrus? LOL... What scientific advances did the Bysantians ever make? NO, the days of Greek glory is like the Scandinavian, British, and French. They're all gone, at large. Live with it.
As a Greek, i wonder many times if it is me who has a bad taste of humor or it is (some) barbarians who don't have any of it - can you help me?
To answer your question: Go to any of your universities and you will find that most of the NON-Scandinavian professors there are Greeks... even more than Germans!
Stop contradicting yourself. They don't chose it because it's custom forced on them by parents.
I was custom forced to learn about Zeus also - realy... i am a Greek!
Most of them don't know much about god and only parrot it because they forced to repeat church's dogma by peer pressure.
So, even if you don't know shit about Greece ("repeat church's dogma by peer pressure"...) for example, you know that you are more brave than young Greeks!
Some people might think there's something out there but don't agree with all of the church dogmas or don't know them and end up making up something of their own.
And you also know what others actualy believe, even if they say diferently!!!
The very notion of god is content-free. The real question here is are you affiliated with particular religious institution? And number of affiliated people is significantly less than that of those who could contemplate notion of god and redefine it according to their whims.
I think it's your whims that make you try to RE-define others my friend...
As a religious person my hopes are the opposite of yours as you understand.
Obviously, and I bear no ill will or judgement because of this.
I am very glad my dear fellow - since we are in Slashdot i will consider you a rare exception (don't even try to deny this!).
I must mention to you that other research in Greece (very "free will" culture, so comparison to USA can be made) has found an opposite trend (and younger people returning in churches).
One thing I found interesting when reading a publication [childtrends.org] by the Child Trends organization was the relationship between economic advancement and religiosity. From a summary section: As countries develop economically, there is less emphasis on dominant religious traditions and
values and more emphasis placed on secular institutions. This study was from 2000, but it does help illustrate why a country like Greece would be seeing an uptick in religious belief even though Europe as a whole does not show this trend (to the best of my knowledge).
Very interesting report BUT those kind of reports are veeeryyy problematic! Latest numbers for trust on institutions from Greeks: 90% for both church and army - as it was ALWAYS (even 5 years ago, before our economic "crisis" begins - note that Greece is 38th most rich country from about 200 others based on GNI PPP, and, despite what you read, Greece is "a poor state with rich citizens"). But here is one more example of a (cultural) problem in this publication: table 3 (religious involvement - Eurobarometer) Greece (excluding Agnostics/Atheist/other/ insignificant numbers thar are accurate in my knowledge/opinion) - Practicing Believer 41.9 / Non Practicing Believer 52.8. As a Greek i can quarantee to you that there is not such thing as "Non Practicing Believer" in Greece!!! I quess that the methodology of the study is influenced by Protestantic norms, but in (Orthodox Christian) Greece EVERY PERSON (even the less than 2% "Atheists"...) goes to church few times a year - but for an Orthodox (including most of this 52.8 "Non Practicing Believers") this does not mean the same as it means for a Protestant, so self-report as "Non Practicing Believer" (the same you can observe it for the Catholics Italy, Portugal, Spain, etc).
Plus you must always take in consideration former "Atheist" by force (ex-Communist) states, e.g., Russia, where after decades of oppression/persecution religion is returning as a way of life. Also... China, the most "Atheist" country (90% i think - don't have the data now), where prediction about Christianity (!) gives hope to people like me.
I would assume that any country where religious belief was suppressed by force would see that religion return once the oppression is lifted. It would be interesting to see how that religion returns based on generational demographics though. If the youth are returning to religion at a lesser rate than older adults, it would show this religious resurgence is short lived. I couldn't find any statistics quickly on this though.
TOTALY anecdotical, but from personal knowledge (for Russia and other Slavic countries): It is the young people that return! Old people are influenced by communism - either as fanatic communists (so fanatic Atheists) OR still afraid that "the monster may return, lets keep our heads down, stupid young people should not expose their belief". Keep in mind that those Slavic states are Orthodox also.
All people who have no affiliation believe in God (but don't belong to a church)
That is true, but they are on average more accepting of those with no religious beliefs. The lack of adherence to a particular set of dogma make them more open minded in general. That was what I meant by them creating an environment where lack of religious belief is not looked down upon.
Well, unfortunatly, we Greeks are very good in not paying our taxes...
i'd wonder at the purchasing power of the average income. i'd also wonder at the distribution of income, with greece's current 25 percent unemployment rate.
Since you seem to know few things, i will give you the Gini index (again from World Bank): 33. Greece has enough income equality, and the unemployment rate is not "true" - we have much "black and grey" economy, so don't believe everything you read. And because of the family ties, almost all Greeks are just fine, we just liked it better when we could have our huge deficits covered by cheap loans...
the US rail is pretty functional too, but that corridor actually turns profits occasionally.
Our rail was always functional, but also employed much of that current "25 percent unemployment rate"... so, you understand! Nowdays (for the last couple of years) our rail is both functional and... "almost profitable"!
Some of us are aware of US Wrestling - Burroughs, Ramos, Ruth...old school brothers like the Schultzs and Banachs...
I am really glad because i love wrestling (not only because i am Greek), and i like many U.S.A. wrestlers (e.g "old school brothers like the Schultzs and Banachs"!).
I like how you say they're "good enough" to compete internationally. In the US, it's sometimes hard to remember that we aren't automatically the best at everything. But it's great to watch such great competitors.
Well, we Greeks suck at baseball! And i mean TOTALY SUCK, not like U.S.A. does in wresting, because U.S.A. wresting has some great wrestlers - not so many as someone would expected based on its population, but i understand the lack of tradition. But think how a Greek like me feels when some Iranian (Persian) defeats some of our guys!
You are so right about how it helps socialize... we hear in the news about US/Iran/Cuba/Russia, etc. politics, but you wouldn't know it watching the teams wrestle. Fierce competitors on the mat, respectful off.
I am a (Christian) Greek nationalist, i strongly oppose immigration (even "legal"), and i hate Muslims (it's a long story... to make it sort: i just hate them). In the gym i use there are also some Iranian (Persian) guys, illegal immigrants - what can i say, i love those guys... YOU know it: athleticism (a Greek word, meaning so many great things... but many Slashdoters will get angry with one more Greek lesson by me!) trains you in respect - hopefully, we people, will resolve our social/politic/etc problems, so we can enjoy life as a game, with wrestling included (can you believe that the international Olympics commity wanted to exclude wrestling! FUCK YOU BARBARIANS - you must return to us Greeks the name "Olympics" before that happens!).
I'm to old to wrestle too - but I keep sharp by coaching. It keeps you close to the energy without the pain!
Ha... That's great! I am too lazy to coach - i never was so good to be honest, but i am old enough to pretend "i know stuff"; those Iranians, much younger and better than me in wrestling (one of them was well known in Iran) are nice enough to let me "show them my stuff". Yes, you are right: "coaching keeps you close to the energy without the pain!".
While the precise cause of the honeybee crisis is unknown, scientists generally blame a combination of factors, including poor diets and stress. Some bees die from infestations of the Varroa mite, a bloodsucking parasite that weakens bees and introduces diseases to the hive. Environmental groups also point to a class of pesticides known as neonicotinoids.
Because environmental groups, of course, are just a bunch of nutjobs and couldn't possibly include scientists...
Well, since many (most?) environmental groups are a bunch of nutjobs (don't hate me bro, they are..,), while they may include scientists, those will be also nutjobs.
An example of a nutjob scientist from just yesterday: a parliament's commity deciding who will be the new vice-president of the Greek Food and Drug Administration learned that the goverment's proposal was a female veterinary medicine professor who believed that planes "spray stuff" to people! After questioning her about that, this lady stoped being interested for the position (thank God!), but she defended herself inside the commity saying that it is not right to be negatively judged for that! NOTE: after that she defended herself to the press by saying that it is her scientific views... THAT PLANES SPRAY "STUFF" TO PEOPLE!
If people assert "belief in god" it doesn't even mean adherence to particular church or religious institution.
Correct, but the vast majority of people who assert a "belief in God" define/describe God as "THE God" (the same God all Christian churches define/describe) - in my example with the Greek postgraduates, the vast majority of them believe in God, and the vast majority of them who believe in God choose the (Greek Orthodox) Christian church as their church.
in fact most people tend to get disillusioned with particular religious institutions of their geographic areas long before they stop referring to god and notions like that.
I don't understand exactly what you mean. Greeks choose the (Greek Orthodox) Christian church (which for most things is same as any Catholic) out of convenience (its language is Greek) AFTER THEY BELIEVE IN GOD! None is forced (traditionaly they get "baptized" as babies!). . We Greeks learn about Zeus from our 4 years of age (!), but when we refer to God we mean THE God, the Christian God because... any logical person can understand that THE God is the God the (Greek Orthodox) Christian church defines/describes. If you come in Greece and try to discuss about Zeus, you will have to specify that you mean Zeus - if you just say "i want to discuss God", even while all Greeks know about Zeus, you will end up discussing THE God (even if you only meet with Greeks who don't believe in God).
the "hitting things/being hit" kind of physical exercices are [...] a way to socialize in a more natural way.
Don't socialize me, bro! Only in America...
Don't repulse me bro, you're gonna get hurt! By the way... i am Greek!
The "hitting things/being hit" kind of physical exercices are a GREAT way to socialize in a more natural way (o.k., all in this "game" should better agree before starting, i forgot to mention it in my first comment!) since -not mentioning the other benefits of exercising in this way- physical contact of the non-erotic nature is very healthy for the body, mind, and soul.
For example, as a Greek i enjoy wrestling (the real one, free/Greek-Roman) a lot (i still wrestle sometimes, even if i am too old now), and i am sorry that many people make fun of it (you know... homosexual jokes), because it is a good way to have such "hitting things/being hit" exercise without (much) danger and (many) injuries (and you can go to work without needing sun glasses indoors!) - but i am glad that in USA wrestling is popular enough to be present in some schools as an option (do you know that USA have some great wrestlers? Probably not, but they are good enough to compete against athletes from the traditional wrestling countries: Greece, Slavic, Iran, various Central Asian.).
I prefer cycling and climbing myself; not really into hitting things/being hit.
Both cycling and climbing are great physical exercices, plus, as any physical exercice, good for the mind and soul also, but those two even more because they are outdoors; usualy cycling and climbing is something you (can) do alone, something "hitting things/being hit" is not - the "hitting things/being hit" kind of physical exercices are great also because they are more of a "game", plus a way to socialize in a more natural way.
Sitting in a chair all the time isn't healthy.
You are absolutely right, thank you for reminding me to go to the gym! I am a member in a gym close to my home for more than a decade. I usualy skip my program for looong periods (not been there for more than a month...), but my advise: be a member in a gym (gyms are very convenient), even if you are like me taking looong "breaks" (i.e., even if you are fucking lazy!), since there you can do most things needed by your body - i will go today!
I want to add in what you wrote that as a (Greek Orthodox) Christan (with my faith "perfectly compatible with science and sound reasoning" - and myself reasonable enough i hope!) i also like to eliminate the "second group" (i.e., "people who accepted their religion without good reason"), and my church is trying to do that by... sound reasoning! Even if it is fundemental for my faith that God can only be a "personal experience", those without it can become better people (as Christians like me define it) just by socializing those who have such a "personal experience" - hopefully everyone (and not only Christians) will experiance God - until then, the church has the duty to keep the second group in the right path (again, as Christians like me define it).
Since it is Amtrak it touches on the deep divide within the nerd community regarding mass transit, which ties heavily into cultural disputes, economic philosophy, and masculine identity. So it crosses on some rather touchy topics.
Your explanation is G[r]eek enough for me, thank you Sir... i should better let barbarians deal with their own issues!
I would had agree with you but when, for example, the vast majority of Greek postgraduates believe in the God of the (Greek Orthodox) Christian church, i.e., THE God, the one the church describes, even if it is true that defining God is... problematic (!), when a question "which God those postgraduates believe in?" is made, then the answer "THE God" is o.k. i think.
Greece is a poor state with rich citizens - our per capita GNI PPP for 2013 based on World Bank is 25630, 38th richer from more than 200 states. source.
also, i hope their commentary goes something along the lines of, "this tragedy occurred on an actual functioning, profit-neutral rail line" because, you know, greeks probably have never encountered that scenario.
You are a man of few words Sir, but since you are a "4 digit" old Slashdoter, may i ask you how a (Greek Orthodox) Christian like me can get off your "hit list"?
The research found in the article link shows young people are far less likely to be religious than old people. Around half as likely in fact. So it is likely many of the gains we have seen in the last decade has just been from older generations dying off. So regardless of how open minded you are, you will be off his "hit list" in due time. You will be replaced by someone from a younger generation who far less likely to be religious. And in 20 years the next young generation will hopefully be far less religious than today's millennials.
As a religious person my hopes are the opposite of yours as you understand. I must mention to you that other research in Greece (very "free will" culture, so comparison to USA can be made) has found an opposite trend (and younger people returning in churches). Plus you must always take in consideration former "Atheist" by force (ex-Communist) states, e.g., Russia, where after decades of oppression/persecution religion is returning as a way of life. Also... China, the most "Atheist" country (90% i think - don't have the data now), where prediction about Christianity (!) gives hope to people like me.
By the way, this 27% are people "describing themselves as atheist, agnostic, or simple having no affiliation", so i think most of them should be in your "hit list" also, because "agnostic, or simple having no affiliation" does not mean "religious Atheist" as i guess you are mister insightful men of few words...
As an atheist myself, I am perfectly happy with people considering themselves agnostic since by my definition they are basically the same thing. Virtually every atheist is agnostic, and vice versa. Atheism is just a lack of religious conviction, which is something all agnostics share or else they would be worshiping their deity of choice. People who have no affiliation are not necessarily atheist or agnostic, but they do at least help create an environment where lack of religious belief is not looked down upon.
All people who have no affiliation believe in God (but don't belong to a church), and "agnostics" are surely not what you are, even if often mistakenly categorized as people that don't believe in God. It is a very problematic term, because it is translated from Greek as just someone without knowledge: an agnostic may believe in God (there is belief -in God- either with or without knowledge), and most if not all Christians are agnostics to an extend (based on their "pathos", as in "experience" - of God) because God does not reveal to us fully, and does it in different ways and degree to each one.
I don't doubt that there are some exceptions, possibly even some motivated enough to be slightly dangerous; but those people I've met who actively want religion to die out (as opposed to merely being atheists personally, or apathetic toward metaphysics) specifically want it do die out by persuasion rather than persecution. [...] Perhaps Rob Kaper is more ardent than usual, I don't speak for him; but my guess is that, while he'd be pleased to have you lose faith, you are in no danger whatsoever and may continue without incident.
I don't feel physicaly threatened by his comment (it was clear to me that he used a figure of speech - i make it clear because i don't want this guy to think that i will call the FBI, or something like that... since especialy Americans -if he is one- are a litle sensitive about such things, no offence to Americans i hope, we in Europe are not much better!).
But since you mention "die out by persuasion rather than persecution", let's examine the comments(s):
Subject says it all.
So, your comment's title is "23 down, 77 to go" - currently (Score:5, Insightful)!
You are a man of few words Sir, but since you are a "4 digit" old Slashdoter, may i ask you how a (Greek Orthodox) Christian like me can get off your "hit list"?
By the way, this 27% are people "describing themselves as atheist, agnostic, or simple having no affiliation", so i think most of them should be in your "hit list" also, because "agnostic, or simple having no affiliation" does not mean "religious Atheist" as i guess you are mister insightful men of few words...
CORRECTION: "[...] 27% [23%] [...]"!
My own comment, i.e., the victim's comment of this "persuasion", that has some extra stuff, is modded down, while a "hit list" of a "4 digit ID" Slashdoter, a comment that only states a personal desire, i.e., the elimination of religious people (like me) is modded (Score:5, Insightful), something you could call a "persecution" if you care about a honest discussion! I mentioned his "4 digit Slashdot ID" because i think i understand the situation in this site. Imagine if i made a similar comment, stating "non-religious people should be eliminated" - how you think it would -deservedly- be treated by fellow Slashdoters? And this is the norm here my friend (exceptions like you are... exceptions), and this is a situation "religious Atheists" (as i call them) create.
Anyway, since i want this "insightful men of few words", and any other like him, to believe in God, i will try to not become annoyed by such stupidity and hypocrisy (stupidity from both Slashdot collectively and the "hitman" who does not see and hear The Lord, hypocrisy of Slashdot collectively only, since the "hitman" is at least honest enough to show clearly his views on the matter, something i respect.)
"According to Gallup's 2002 Index of Leading Religious Indicators, 88% of those with postgraduate degrees believe in God."
What definition of God? The omnipotent, omnipresent, immortal, intelligent creator one, or the Mother Nature one?
Anecdotally (i posted the Gallup's data because they were easily found), the vast majority of them believe in the God most people believe: THE God, also called "the Creator"/"the Spirit"/"the Superior Power"/etc - usually those believing in "Mother Nature" are those disbelieving THE God. You can also come to this conclusion by examining the postgraduates in self-defined religious people who define their church - e.g., Christian.
Also anecdotally, because i don't have the data right now, the vast majority of Greek postgraduates believe in the God of the (Greek Orthodox) Christian church, i.e., THE God.
Disclaimer: i am a (Greek Orthodox) Christian - i should had post that in my first comment also, sorry!
So, your comment's title is "23 down, 77 to go" - currently (Score:5, Insightful)!
You are a man of few words Sir, but since you are a "4 digit" old Slashdoter, may i ask you how a (Greek Orthodox) Christian like me can get off your "hit list"?
By the way, this 27% are people "describing themselves as atheist, agnostic, or simple having no affiliation", so i think most of them should be in your "hit list" also, because "agnostic, or simple having no affiliation" does not mean "religious Atheist" as i guess you are mister insightful men of few words...
This topic just screams out for a Slashdot Poll! What is your religious affiliation?: 1. Something Christian-like [...] 6. "I'm a doctor, Jim, not a religious preacher!"
According to Gallup's 2002 Index of Leading Religious Indicators, 88% of those with postgraduate degrees believe in God.
Yes, you suspected right Sir, i already mentioned it as pebble-bed (but i was not sure!) in some other comment earlier, but you provided me with the answer about this German design that was used in a demo plant - thank you!
Slashdot Mirror
An example that i just listening: https://www.youtube.com/watch?... (great music in my opinion, one of the best i heard in my life, but that is not my point).
"Music Listening" is something you must "train your ear" to do it well - the younger you begin, the better. And the best way i think is to stop this pop/rock monoculture. Unfortunately kids/teenagers (especialy in USA i am afraid) are exposed almost exclusively to "popular" music.
It's the modern "Plan 9 from Outer Space": So bad it's good.
But Battlefield Earth was supposed to be funny (as it was... i think!), more of a "parodic" way, not in a ridiculous way as "Plan 9 from Outer Space" ended up to be - well, haters gonna hate...
Are you sure you're not thinking about Starship Troopers? I liked the over-the-top parody of "everything is militarized" point of view from the first day I saw it.
I am sure i am thinking about Battlefield Earth - more sure because after i posted my comment i saw an earlier writing "Battlefield Earth... sucks"! I even double cheched in the internet before i anwser to you...
Never watched Starship Troopers - i will check it. By the way, one reason i liked Battlefield Earth was because its humor had much to do with "military relations" (i cant think a good term in English), and it reminded me many things from my own military service.
ouch... i just read your comment, after i posted mine!
Christian is also known for directing 2000's Battlefield Earth
Which is, among other things, a very funny movie - after i saw it, i always wondered why it is considered "one of the worse movies" (as i read about in some "lists")... people missed its humor.
As a Scandinavian, I wonder what claim the Greeks may have had to intellectual fame since the great Aristotle. The misfits from Nicosia? Petrus? LOL... What scientific advances did the Bysantians ever make? NO, the days of Greek glory is like the Scandinavian, British, and French. They're all gone, at large. Live with it.
As a Greek, i wonder many times if it is me who has a bad taste of humor or it is (some) barbarians who don't have any of it - can you help me?
To answer your question: Go to any of your universities and you will find that most of the NON-Scandinavian professors there are Greeks... even more than Germans!
Stop contradicting yourself. They don't chose it because it's custom forced on them by parents.
I was custom forced to learn about Zeus also - realy... i am a Greek!
Most of them don't know much about god and only parrot it because they forced to repeat church's dogma by peer pressure.
So, even if you don't know shit about Greece ("repeat church's dogma by peer pressure"...) for example, you know that you are more brave than young Greeks!
Some people might think there's something out there but don't agree with all of the church dogmas or don't know them and end up making up something of their own.
And you also know what others actualy believe, even if they say diferently!!!
The very notion of god is content-free. The real question here is are you affiliated with particular religious institution? And number of affiliated people is significantly less than that of those who could contemplate notion of god and redefine it according to their whims.
I think it's your whims that make you try to RE-define others my friend...
As a religious person my hopes are the opposite of yours as you understand.
Obviously, and I bear no ill will or judgement because of this.
I am very glad my dear fellow - since we are in Slashdot i will consider you a rare exception (don't even try to deny this!).
I must mention to you that other research in Greece (very "free will" culture, so comparison to USA can be made) has found an opposite trend (and younger people returning in churches).
One thing I found interesting when reading a publication [childtrends.org] by the Child Trends organization was the relationship between economic advancement and religiosity. From a summary section: As countries develop economically, there is less emphasis on dominant religious traditions and values and more emphasis placed on secular institutions. This study was from 2000, but it does help illustrate why a country like Greece would be seeing an uptick in religious belief even though Europe as a whole does not show this trend (to the best of my knowledge).
Very interesting report BUT those kind of reports are veeeryyy problematic! Latest numbers for trust on institutions from Greeks: 90% for both church and army - as it was ALWAYS (even 5 years ago, before our economic "crisis" begins - note that Greece is 38th most rich country from about 200 others based on GNI PPP, and, despite what you read, Greece is "a poor state with rich citizens"). But here is one more example of a (cultural) problem in this publication: table 3 (religious involvement - Eurobarometer) Greece (excluding Agnostics/Atheist/other/ insignificant numbers thar are accurate in my knowledge/opinion) - Practicing Believer 41.9 / Non Practicing Believer 52.8. As a Greek i can quarantee to you that there is not such thing as "Non Practicing Believer" in Greece!!! I quess that the methodology of the study is influenced by Protestantic norms, but in (Orthodox Christian) Greece EVERY PERSON (even the less than 2% "Atheists"...) goes to church few times a year - but for an Orthodox (including most of this 52.8 "Non Practicing Believers") this does not mean the same as it means for a Protestant, so self-report as "Non Practicing Believer" (the same you can observe it for the Catholics Italy, Portugal, Spain, etc).
Plus you must always take in consideration former "Atheist" by force (ex-Communist) states, e.g., Russia, where after decades of oppression/persecution religion is returning as a way of life. Also... China, the most "Atheist" country (90% i think - don't have the data now), where prediction about Christianity (!) gives hope to people like me.
I would assume that any country where religious belief was suppressed by force would see that religion return once the oppression is lifted. It would be interesting to see how that religion returns based on generational demographics though. If the youth are returning to religion at a lesser rate than older adults, it would show this religious resurgence is short lived. I couldn't find any statistics quickly on this though.
TOTALY anecdotical, but from personal knowledge (for Russia and other Slavic countries): It is the young people that return! Old people are influenced by communism - either as fanatic communists (so fanatic Atheists) OR still afraid that "the monster may return, lets keep our heads down, stupid young people should not expose their belief". Keep in mind that those Slavic states are Orthodox also.
All people who have no affiliation believe in God (but don't belong to a church)
That is true, but they are on average more accepting of those with no religious beliefs. The lack of adherence to a particular set of dogma make them more open minded in general. That was what I meant by them creating an environment where lack of religious belief is not looked down upon.
Yes, i
:) yes, not paying taxes will do that.
Well, unfortunatly, we Greeks are very good in not paying our taxes...
i'd wonder at the purchasing power of the average income. i'd also wonder at the distribution of income, with greece's current 25 percent unemployment rate.
Since you seem to know few things, i will give you the Gini index (again from World Bank): 33. Greece has enough income equality, and the unemployment rate is not "true" - we have much "black and grey" economy, so don't believe everything you read. And because of the family ties, almost all Greeks are just fine, we just liked it better when we could have our huge deficits covered by cheap loans...
the US rail is pretty functional too, but that corridor actually turns profits occasionally.
Our rail was always functional, but also employed much of that current "25 percent unemployment rate"... so, you understand! Nowdays (for the last couple of years) our rail is both functional and... "almost profitable"!
Some of us are aware of US Wrestling - Burroughs, Ramos, Ruth...old school brothers like the Schultzs and Banachs...
I am really glad because i love wrestling (not only because i am Greek), and i like many U.S.A. wrestlers (e.g "old school brothers like the Schultzs and Banachs"!).
I like how you say they're "good enough" to compete internationally. In the US, it's sometimes hard to remember that we aren't automatically the best at everything. But it's great to watch such great competitors.
Well, we Greeks suck at baseball! And i mean TOTALY SUCK, not like U.S.A. does in wresting, because U.S.A. wresting has some great wrestlers - not so many as someone would expected based on its population, but i understand the lack of tradition. But think how a Greek like me feels when some Iranian (Persian) defeats some of our guys!
You are so right about how it helps socialize... we hear in the news about US/Iran/Cuba/Russia, etc. politics, but you wouldn't know it watching the teams wrestle. Fierce competitors on the mat, respectful off.
I am a (Christian) Greek nationalist, i strongly oppose immigration (even "legal"), and i hate Muslims (it's a long story... to make it sort: i just hate them). In the gym i use there are also some Iranian (Persian) guys, illegal immigrants - what can i say, i love those guys... YOU know it: athleticism (a Greek word, meaning so many great things... but many Slashdoters will get angry with one more Greek lesson by me!) trains you in respect - hopefully, we people, will resolve our social/politic/etc problems, so we can enjoy life as a game, with wrestling included (can you believe that the international Olympics commity wanted to exclude wrestling! FUCK YOU BARBARIANS - you must return to us Greeks the name "Olympics" before that happens!).
I'm to old to wrestle too - but I keep sharp by coaching. It keeps you close to the energy without the pain!
Ha... That's great! I am too lazy to coach - i never was so good to be honest, but i am old enough to pretend "i know stuff"; those Iranians, much younger and better than me in wrestling (one of them was well known in Iran) are nice enough to let me "show them my stuff". Yes, you are right: "coaching keeps you close to the energy without the pain!".
Because environmental groups, of course, are just a bunch of nutjobs and couldn't possibly include scientists...
Well, since many (most?) environmental groups are a bunch of nutjobs (don't hate me bro, they are..,), while they may include scientists, those will be also nutjobs.
An example of a nutjob scientist from just yesterday: a parliament's commity deciding who will be the new vice-president of the Greek Food and Drug Administration learned that the goverment's proposal was a female veterinary medicine professor who believed that planes "spray stuff" to people! After questioning her about that, this lady stoped being interested for the position (thank God!), but she defended herself inside the commity saying that it is not right to be negatively judged for that! NOTE: after that she defended herself to the press by saying that it is her scientific views... THAT PLANES SPRAY "STUFF" TO PEOPLE!
If people assert "belief in god" it doesn't even mean adherence to particular church or religious institution.
Correct, but the vast majority of people who assert a "belief in God" define/describe God as "THE God" (the same God all Christian churches define/describe) - in my example with the Greek postgraduates, the vast majority of them believe in God, and the vast majority of them who believe in God choose the (Greek Orthodox) Christian church as their church.
in fact most people tend to get disillusioned with particular religious institutions of their geographic areas long before they stop referring to god and notions like that.
I don't understand exactly what you mean. Greeks choose the (Greek Orthodox) Christian church (which for most things is same as any Catholic) out of convenience (its language is Greek) AFTER THEY BELIEVE IN GOD! None is forced (traditionaly they get "baptized" as babies!). . We Greeks learn about Zeus from our 4 years of age (!), but when we refer to God we mean THE God, the Christian God because... any logical person can understand that THE God is the God the (Greek Orthodox) Christian church defines/describes. If you come in Greece and try to discuss about Zeus, you will have to specify that you mean Zeus - if you just say "i want to discuss God", even while all Greeks know about Zeus, you will end up discussing THE God (even if you only meet with Greeks who don't believe in God).
the "hitting things/being hit" kind of physical exercices are [...] a way to socialize in a more natural way.
Don't socialize me, bro! Only in America...
Don't repulse me bro, you're gonna get hurt! By the way... i am Greek!
The "hitting things/being hit" kind of physical exercices are a GREAT way to socialize in a more natural way (o.k., all in this "game" should better agree before starting, i forgot to mention it in my first comment!) since -not mentioning the other benefits of exercising in this way- physical contact of the non-erotic nature is very healthy for the body, mind, and soul.
For example, as a Greek i enjoy wrestling (the real one, free/Greek-Roman) a lot (i still wrestle sometimes, even if i am too old now), and i am sorry that many people make fun of it (you know... homosexual jokes), because it is a good way to have such "hitting things/being hit" exercise without (much) danger and (many) injuries (and you can go to work without needing sun glasses indoors!) - but i am glad that in USA wrestling is popular enough to be present in some schools as an option (do you know that USA have some great wrestlers? Probably not, but they are good enough to compete against athletes from the traditional wrestling countries: Greece, Slavic, Iran, various Central Asian.).
I prefer cycling and climbing myself; not really into hitting things/being hit.
Both cycling and climbing are great physical exercices, plus, as any physical exercice, good for the mind and soul also, but those two even more because they are outdoors; usualy cycling and climbing is something you (can) do alone, something "hitting things/being hit" is not - the "hitting things/being hit" kind of physical exercices are great also because they are more of a "game", plus a way to socialize in a more natural way.
Sitting in a chair all the time isn't healthy.
You are absolutely right, thank you for reminding me to go to the gym! I am a member in a gym close to my home for more than a decade. I usualy skip my program for looong periods (not been there for more than a month...), but my advise: be a member in a gym (gyms are very convenient), even if you are like me taking looong "breaks" (i.e., even if you are fucking lazy!), since there you can do most things needed by your body - i will go today!
I want to add in what you wrote that as a (Greek Orthodox) Christan (with my faith "perfectly compatible with science and sound reasoning" - and myself reasonable enough i hope!) i also like to eliminate the "second group" (i.e., "people who accepted their religion without good reason"), and my church is trying to do that by... sound reasoning! Even if it is fundemental for my faith that God can only be a "personal experience", those without it can become better people (as Christians like me define it) just by socializing those who have such a "personal experience" - hopefully everyone (and not only Christians) will experiance God - until then, the church has the duty to keep the second group in the right path (again, as Christians like me define it).
Since it is Amtrak it touches on the deep divide within the nerd community regarding mass transit, which ties heavily into cultural disputes, economic philosophy, and masculine identity. So it crosses on some rather touchy topics.
Your explanation is G[r]eek enough for me, thank you Sir... i should better let barbarians deal with their own issues!
You only mentioned you were Greek three times, so I think you got away with it.
But that is my point! That i am a Greek who watched it on a Greek TV station, so no point for this /. story...
I would had agree with you but when, for example, the vast majority of Greek postgraduates believe in the God of the (Greek Orthodox) Christian church, i.e., THE God, the one the church describes, even if it is true that defining God is... problematic (!), when a question "which God those postgraduates believe in?" is made, then the answer "THE God" is o.k. i think.
wait, greece still has TV's?
Greece is a poor state with rich citizens - our per capita GNI PPP for 2013 based on World Bank is 25630, 38th richer from more than 200 states. source.
also, i hope their commentary goes something along the lines of, "this tragedy occurred on an actual functioning, profit-neutral rail line" because, you know, greeks probably have never encountered that scenario.
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazi...
Well, Greece has a non profit-neutral but surely actual functioning rail line - i used it a month ago.
You are a man of few words Sir, but since you are a "4 digit" old Slashdoter, may i ask you how a (Greek Orthodox) Christian like me can get off your "hit list"?
The research found in the article link shows young people are far less likely to be religious than old people. Around half as likely in fact. So it is likely many of the gains we have seen in the last decade has just been from older generations dying off. So regardless of how open minded you are, you will be off his "hit list" in due time. You will be replaced by someone from a younger generation who far less likely to be religious. And in 20 years the next young generation will hopefully be far less religious than today's millennials.
As a religious person my hopes are the opposite of yours as you understand. I must mention to you that other research in Greece (very "free will" culture, so comparison to USA can be made) has found an opposite trend (and younger people returning in churches). Plus you must always take in consideration former "Atheist" by force (ex-Communist) states, e.g., Russia, where after decades of oppression/persecution religion is returning as a way of life. Also... China, the most "Atheist" country (90% i think - don't have the data now), where prediction about Christianity (!) gives hope to people like me.
By the way, this 27% are people "describing themselves as atheist, agnostic, or simple having no affiliation", so i think most of them should be in your "hit list" also, because "agnostic, or simple having no affiliation" does not mean "religious Atheist" as i guess you are mister insightful men of few words...
As an atheist myself, I am perfectly happy with people considering themselves agnostic since by my definition they are basically the same thing. Virtually every atheist is agnostic, and vice versa. Atheism is just a lack of religious conviction, which is something all agnostics share or else they would be worshiping their deity of choice. People who have no affiliation are not necessarily atheist or agnostic, but they do at least help create an environment where lack of religious belief is not looked down upon.
All people who have no affiliation believe in God (but don't belong to a church), and "agnostics" are surely not what you are, even if often mistakenly categorized as people that don't believe in God. It is a very problematic term, because it is translated from Greek as just someone without knowledge: an agnostic may believe in God (there is belief -in God- either with or without knowledge), and most if not all Christians are agnostics to an extend (based on their "pathos", as in "experience" - of God) because God does not reveal to us fully, and does it in different ways and degree to each one.
I don't doubt that there are some exceptions, possibly even some motivated enough to be slightly dangerous; but those people I've met who actively want religion to die out (as opposed to merely being atheists personally, or apathetic toward metaphysics) specifically want it do die out by persuasion rather than persecution. [...] Perhaps Rob Kaper is more ardent than usual, I don't speak for him; but my guess is that, while he'd be pleased to have you lose faith, you are in no danger whatsoever and may continue without incident.
I don't feel physicaly threatened by his comment (it was clear to me that he used a figure of speech - i make it clear because i don't want this guy to think that i will call the FBI, or something like that... since especialy Americans -if he is one- are a litle sensitive about such things, no offence to Americans i hope, we in Europe are not much better!).
But since you mention "die out by persuasion rather than persecution", let's examine the comments(s):
Subject says it all.
So, your comment's title is "23 down, 77 to go" - currently (Score:5, Insightful)!
You are a man of few words Sir, but since you are a "4 digit" old Slashdoter, may i ask you how a (Greek Orthodox) Christian like me can get off your "hit list"?
By the way, this 27% are people "describing themselves as atheist, agnostic, or simple having no affiliation", so i think most of them should be in your "hit list" also, because "agnostic, or simple having no affiliation" does not mean "religious Atheist" as i guess you are mister insightful men of few words...
CORRECTION: "[...] 27% [23%] [...]"!
My own comment, i.e., the victim's comment of this "persuasion", that has some extra stuff, is modded down, while a "hit list" of a "4 digit ID" Slashdoter, a comment that only states a personal desire, i.e., the elimination of religious people (like me) is modded (Score:5, Insightful), something you could call a "persecution" if you care about a honest discussion! I mentioned his "4 digit Slashdot ID" because i think i understand the situation in this site. Imagine if i made a similar comment, stating "non-religious people should be eliminated" - how you think it would -deservedly- be treated by fellow Slashdoters? And this is the norm here my friend (exceptions like you are... exceptions), and this is a situation "religious Atheists" (as i call them) create.
Anyway, since i want this "insightful men of few words", and any other like him, to believe in God, i will try to not become annoyed by such stupidity and hypocrisy (stupidity from both Slashdot collectively and the "hitman" who does not see and hear The Lord, hypocrisy of Slashdot collectively only, since the "hitman" is at least honest enough to show clearly his views on the matter, something i respect.)
"According to Gallup's 2002 Index of Leading Religious Indicators, 88% of those with postgraduate degrees believe in God." What definition of God? The omnipotent, omnipresent, immortal, intelligent creator one, or the Mother Nature one?
Anecdotally (i posted the Gallup's data because they were easily found), the vast majority of them believe in the God most people believe: THE God, also called "the Creator"/"the Spirit"/"the Superior Power"/etc - usually those believing in "Mother Nature" are those disbelieving THE God. You can also come to this conclusion by examining the postgraduates in self-defined religious people who define their church - e.g., Christian.
Also anecdotally, because i don't have the data right now, the vast majority of Greek postgraduates believe in the God of the (Greek Orthodox) Christian church, i.e., THE God.
Disclaimer: i am a (Greek Orthodox) Christian - i should had post that in my first comment also, sorry!
Subject says it all.
So, your comment's title is "23 down, 77 to go" - currently (Score:5, Insightful)!
You are a man of few words Sir, but since you are a "4 digit" old Slashdoter, may i ask you how a (Greek Orthodox) Christian like me can get off your "hit list"?
By the way, this 27% are people "describing themselves as atheist, agnostic, or simple having no affiliation", so i think most of them should be in your "hit list" also, because "agnostic, or simple having no affiliation" does not mean "religious Atheist" as i guess you are mister insightful men of few words...
This topic just screams out for a Slashdot Poll! What is your religious affiliation?: 1. Something Christian-like [...] 6. "I'm a doctor, Jim, not a religious preacher!"
According to Gallup's 2002 Index of Leading Religious Indicators, 88% of those with postgraduate degrees believe in God.
I suspect that you're thinking of a pebble-bed reactor.
Yes, you suspected right Sir, i already mentioned it as pebble-bed (but i was not sure!) in some other comment earlier, but you provided me with the answer about this German design that was used in a demo plant - thank you!