You are correct, it has happened to me, to friends, to other people i know, and you can not blame anyone really, because i know that i have done it to others also (but nor them can blame me, because...) - you end up damaging personal relation, since business is business and i respect that.
Not only should you get it in writing, but make sure that the person signing the contract is sufficiently empowered to act on behalf of the business.
This is the best advise - business is business, added bonus that you may avoid damaging any personal relation.
There may be differences in understanding between Modern Greek and Koine Greek as used by the Jewish community in late antiquity.
As i wrote brother i am Greek (born, raised, living in Greece), and my Greek are the "common" Greek (i.e., the Modern... Koine!). I understand that a non-Greek (or even a Greek...!) may be confused sometimes by Greek (as i am with English!), as surely Jews was at the time, but...
"hUpo nomon" was coined by St. Paul to represent "under a regime resulting from the legalistic perversion of the commandments of the Mosaic Law".
St. Paul ("Apostle of the nations" for us Greeks) -my personal "favorite" actualy!- is a special case i think, and i find his thoughts... -in a strange way- very "Greek" (i can not explain it better...)
There is an "abstraction layer" that only in the past three decades has been rediscovered by Biblical scholars.
I trust NON-Greek (!) Biblical scholars for their scientificaly good work!
Since you're doing this on the company's nickel, it's known as "work for hire." You have no ownership rights. Also, since you're developing this using their resources on their time, why would you expect to be able to resell it when it's clearly their property? That would be like being hired to make donuts, making a batch with your boss's ingredients and tools while being paid, and expecting to keep the profit.
You are right in everything you wrote but you probably missed this part of what (s)he wrote "I have a good relationship with management", so, (s)he expects some kind of an "unsigned verbal agreement" to be respected, something that is not uncommon - what is problematic (other than this agreement not to be respected) very often with this kind of agreements is that you end up not to agree with the other party on what you have agreed, either because someone forgot the details or just because you did not ever had any such agreement!
"Then who can be saved?". And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
New business opportunity for the Vatican -- cloud backups!
But they are already in this business, since their mission statement is to save people and their vision statement to abolish the church when their mission is completed, with the Good Book as their values' statement - and they offer great value for money because you can use their services for free (all you have to do is go to some church and save yourself free of charge - any funding needed for this is provided from Catholics, you don't have to worry about it).
Disclaimer: i am not -directly- affiliated with the Vatican, i am a member of the Greek Orthodox Christian Church (actually a competitor in this "saving people" business - you can try us also, we claim to be better, but we will be happy if you choose any Christian Church my brother!)
"I'm not religious, but this kind of shit only makes me think of that famous line: "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven."
I'm religious, but i object on using this passage for this case, or at least use it for both parties (i.e., including the laid-off workers), since this passage (originaly written in Greek - by the way, i am Greek!) is about any person who is attached to any possession (in Greek the word used in the passage for "rich/richness" it is not only about excessive wealth): "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God". When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?". And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
In more political terms, it can be argued that the workers are attached to their wealth, not willing to accept less money for their work, so poorer (H-1B visa) workers replace them. Personaly, as a Greek right-wing/nationalist, i am against excessively free immigration (even legal), something the European left-wing demands, accusing people with my ideology as "racist" (even if many such immigrants are of my general race, but of different ethnicity/nationality) - when i ask them about this issue, and i tell them that immigrants are willing to work for less money and by that lower the average payment, they get angry with me... well, i am stupid, so i guess that this "equal pay" (left-wing's other demand) means that those laid-off workers are to blame for loosing their job!
Pointing out a flaw in someone else's software should not, by itself, be a criminal act. Once the information is public, automating the exploit could be done by anyone proficient in the art.
But selling a tool that uses the vulnerability? They crossed a line, but throwing the book at them seems a little harsh.
My latest comment, just before i write this, is an answer to a fellow Slashdoter that complained that i am a "Greek attention whore" - now you complain because Athanasios Andrianakis (the second one that was arrested) is a Greek(-American) hacker that develops and SELLS software. And then i read all these stuff about "the lazy Greeks that must work and pay back their loans". What is wrong with you barbarians? Make up your mind! What do you want from us Greeks? The guy apparently is a honest men trying to do the right thing - earn some money, make some payments, you know... help the economy.
On a more serious tone: his software designed to plunder private and password-protected information by breaching the security of a site, and since the saying in Greece is like "prison bars are for brave men"... our mister brave, should be brave now!
Is it just you or are all Greeks such attention whores?
We are (almost) all - as we say: "Greek is not a nationality but a profession". But don't you think that the fact that mister Haikalis (the one that wrote the original article, and head of the NY athority) being a Greek (American) civil engineer and transportation planner (so surely -as everyone is, even non-Greeks- influenced by the other -world famous, as Oscar Niemeyer is, in the field- Greek city planner, mister Doxiadis - the one that was proposing for Athens airport what is proposed here 4 decades ago, and finaly been done recently) is something a Greek Slashdoter like me should not mention? Why you object? I can see now that i was modded up "5 informative", so some other Slashdoters (i can bet that they were not Greeks) found it related. And i mention often that i am Greek because: a) i have communication problems in a mostly American site (not only language -see my sig-, but cultural also) b)... Greek pride! So, please answer me, what is your problem pal?
Would I be correct in assuming that you're Greek yourself? It's just that you've never mentioned it before.
I hope you will read this, it would be the last time (or one of the last) that i will write it to you my dear: use your Slashdot account, don't be a coward.
I take it you're part of the typical "I'm not a racist, but..." group that exists in Greece?
Why you think FACTS are "rasist"? And you are very wrong about me being part of the typical "I'm not a racist, but..." group... very wrong, because i have stated in Slashdot already enough times what i am (e.g., http://slashdot.org/comments.p...) - but crime statistics are not "racists" (because among non-Greeks criminals in Greece exist people of the same general race Greeks are part of, but of other ethnicity).
Better than an alternate theory is actual facts: In the U.S. [...]
I agree with you Sir, so i post some official FACTS that support your comment:
2012 Arrests by Race, Black, percent distribution: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter (49.4%), forcible rape (32.5%), robbery (54.9%); Census Population by Race, Black: 13.2%.
Crime statistics from Greece (still low crime rates compared to most of the world, but huge difference from when Greece became more NON-Greek!)
Population: Greeks (9.903.268 - including all Greek citizens, i.e., even about 3% officialy non-ethnic Greeks...) - NON-Greeks (708.003 - officialy 70% of them "undocumented immigrants"...)
Not everyone thinks closing down the old airport in Athens was a good idea. In fact most people I have discussed this with (mainly people who fly a lot) think that they should have kept the newest terminal (which was quite good) and serve at least some short-haul flights from there. Sure, there is a subway to the Airport, but it is a very long way away (which is of course even more of a problem if you can't take the subway). It is not that good to have to make a 1 hour trip to the airport to catch a 1 hour flight to an island... The old airport had a great location and its only problem was that it was the only one serving Athens. Few cities the size of Athens have only 1 airport.
My fellow Greek (and Athenian), i admit that it was an exaggeration to use the phrase "but now everyone agrees" - but you must admit that we Greeks are exaggerate any complaint we have, so it is like the complain i have from the new airport because it is not next to my room ("griniarides"), and that considering all the issues (limits of the old airport, no ability to expand it, serious need for charters's area, etc) the only solution was to build a new one (Doxiadis propose it 4 decades ago!!!). And you also need to admit that since we planed this new airport to be so big (thank God, and now we plan to expand it more!), it would be financialy unsustainable to keep both (i am sure you know our little financial "crisis" thing... i just mention the situation we are in now).
Also, people living near the airport are rightfully afraid that the freed land will be used for ugly residential development (Athens specializes in that) and also the surrounding areas that were kept from becoming as urbanized as the center of Athens partly due to the airport-imposed building height limit, will star getting the usual 6-story buildings. When it was first decided the old airport would close, politicians promised it would be our "metropolitan park", every year they reduce the size of the promised park and increase the area for development. Now we have reached the point where even a \. poster thinks it is a good idea to use that area for development to "bring few billions Euros" (sic)! Yeah, an even uglier and unhealthier Athens is what is needed, just sell everything!
I will repeat what i just wrote in some other comment in this thread to some non Greek civil engineer:
"Athens's old airport (the biggest free zone for city development in Europe) is inside the city, next to the sea, in a great place, surrounded by upper class neighbourhoods. The original plan was to create the biggest city park in Europe, since until 2008 we didn't yet had the well known now "Greek financial crisis". Some few city planners and politicians (with who i agreed also) proposed at that time to create exactly what you -negatively- describe (a super-rich people's mega neighbourhood), and with the profits to buy some blocks inside the center of the city, demolish the buildings, and create many smaller parks instead of the huge park in an already upper class area. But most Greeks were against that plan because... "why have the rich build their houses in such a great place?" (the same think you support i think). Now, and because of the "Greek financial crisis", we will do it that (the project already started), but since now we need those billions Euros the projects we hope will bring to Greece for other things (i.e., not go bankrupt), we must forget the smaller parks inside the city's center. But even now, this development will be good for all the people of Athens (and Greece!) since a a super-rich people's mega neighbourhood brings profits to the city and the rest of the people (you know... Capitalism, the invisible hand, etc, something we Greeks -and you- don't like it so much, but anyway...)"
Surely the rest of the world does not need to watch 2 Greeks fight each other over politics, let those barbarians think that we are civilized... i am righ-wing, i strongly support austerity, so, you understand: "mnimoniakos germanotsolias" - if we start, we would end up in Greek exchanging "ante gamisou re malaka"... and it would be all "Greek" for the rest Slashdoters!
Sure, I'll explain. Right now, La Guardia is shared use land. Everybody in the city gets access to the benefits of that property. It's a public resource, used by the public for transportation. Yes, many airlines lease space on it, and no, you can't go build a squatter village on it, but it is, very effectively, a public space.
On the other hand, when developed, the site will be only for those rich enough to be able to afford a million dollar apartment. Those who can pay the most will get the best views, and those who were making an honest living working at LGA will either find themselves working for the super-rich, or more likely, unemployed. YEs, there will be construction jobs, but those will leave, and all that will be left for the majority of people in NYC will be a larger traffic problem on the bridges and tunnels. How is that not stealing from the citizenry for the benefit of the few?
Thanks for answering, allow me to use the case i already mentioned, my own city's, Athens Greece, old airport (many Slashdoters are tired with me always mentioning that i am Greek - it is some Greek pride, but it is a good example also for what you mention).
Athens's old airport (the biggest free zone for city development in Europe) is inside the city, next to the sea, in a great place, surrounded by upper class neighbourhoods. The original plan was to create the biggest city park in Europe, since until 2008 we didn't yet had the well known now "Greek financial crisis". Some few city planners and politicians (with who i agreed also) proposed at that time to create exactly what you -negatively- describe (a super-rich people's mega neighbourhood), and with the profits to buy some blocks inside the center of the city, demolish the buildings, and create many smaller parks instead of the huge park in an already upper class area. But most Greeks were against that plan because... "why have the rich build their houses in such a great place?" (the same think you support i think). Now, and because of the "Greek financial crisis", we will do it that (the project already started), but since now we need those billions Euros the projects we hope will bring to Greece for other things (i.e., not go bankrupt), we must forget the smaller parks inside the city's center. But even now, this development will be good for all the people of Athens (and Greece!) since a a super-rich people's mega neighbourhood brings profits to the city and the rest of the people (you know... Capitalism, the invisible hand, etc, something we Greeks -and you- don't like it so much, but anyway...)
As i already wrote, i am not an engineer/architect (while you are, as you wrote), but as i also wrote, city planning is more than what the civil engineers/architects know/want, and you prove my point because you mostly oppose the closure of NY GL airport airport on political issues/views, not on technical reasons. City planning is also a social/economic/political issue, so some factors of it are beyong your technical field - i respect your knowledge in that field (i am a fucking ignorant in it), but you should not use my respect as you did (i.e., writting "But, I'm just a civil engineer, what the hell do I know") when your most important objectiions are actually ideological - in that "discussion universe" (social/economic/political) you are just one more citizen (hopefully respected for his technical knowledge, but not with more value in the decisions making). I would like to repeat again that i don't doubt that you are a good civil engineer - but i oppose your ideological based objections (that you attempt to present as civil engineering issues).
That's really the point' isn't it. This is a plan to steal billions of dollars of land at the expense of everyone flying into and out of New York. The only expansion LGA needs is the subway. Not a stupid light rail that makes you connect to the subway, but just continue the N train and get rid of the cab stand. The stupid light rail, by the way will save no one time, and consequently will not help. But, I'm just a civil engineer, what the hell do I know
I am not a civil engineer/architect/city/transportation planner (but i have met all major Greeks, including associates of those i mentioned earlier) and i don't know the NY LG airport case, but, and excuse me, i find stupid this conspiracy of yours (i.e., "steal billions of dollars of land" - obviously related to what i wrote "And the old airport's area, inside Athens (and next to the sea), is now the biggest free zone for city development in Europe [...]"). Can you answer who is the thief and from who is stealing? Because even if you dont count all the other benefits of a new airport, changing land usage in an expanded/expanding city is something healthy and can not be considered "stealing". I don't doubt that the technical details you wrote are right, nor that you are a good civil engineer, but sometimes other factors are more important in such decisions, factors that are beyong your technical field. As i mentioned i have met all major Greeks civil engineer/architect (some of them you may know them too, even if you are not Greek): once, when all of them together, they discussed (as auto-criticism) how they destroyed Athens in the 50-60-70's decade(s) - the conclusion by the engineer/architect was that city planning is too important to be left to you guys!
Well, George Haikalis (civil engineer / transportation planner), as a Greek (American), is apparently influenced by the ideas of Constantinos Doxiadis, a well known internationally Greek architect and city planner (e.g., master planner of Pakistan's capital new builded city, Islamabad) who was proposing closing our old airport in Athens and building a new for decades before that happened (just before the 2004 Olympics) - our new Athens airport, while far from the city center (but with an express metro rail link), is far more efficient, and has contributed to the economy (don't laugh... at least our tourism does great, this year we had more than 20 million visits in Greece -double our population-, many of them landing in Athens before going to the islands, something our old airport could not provide because of its limits). Many (most) Athenians were against the new airport (and/or closing our old), but now everyone agrees that it was the right thing. And the old airport's area, inside Athens (and next to the sea), is now the biggest free zone for city development in Europe (something we hope will bring few billions Euros, as we may need them right now!). But the key was the express metro rail link between the airport and Athens center, something George Haikalis surely used many times - if Athens can do it right, NY can do it better.
This Pulp's "Common People" song (about a rich Greek girl) and this (few days old, on BBC) interview part of mister Varoufakis (Greek minister of finance) about his wife (and actuall girl of the song) may explain it.
Never sounded nice to me, and of course it fails every where it is implemented.
Never sounded nice to me either, and of course it always failed when implemented, but Communism (and, its direct ancestor, Socialism) sounds nice to many people - the most common characteristic the vast majority of those people share is that they did NOT lived it to know better and that they are not wise enough to accept the advise of the vast majority of people who lived it...
As a Greek i know many Greek Communists (we were lucky enough to avoid Communism in Greece, so... too many Greek Comminists!), and many immigrants in Greece from former Communist -mostly Slavic- states (the most anti-Communists people in Greece...).
We, new kids on the block, should stick together... find few more like us, then find some low digit slashdoter to bully and earn some respect - don't tell anyone, that's our plan partner!
Too much for who? Some Northern countries (e.g., Russia) may consider a blessing this "global warming"
Only if they are very stupid. Chaos is a-comin'. Noticed the increase in Russian sinkholes?
Yes, Russia's sinkholes are impressive, and with some more of this "global warming" they will become even more, but once it sinks for good, and things settle down...
But in a more serious tone (not that i am joking so far), i just oppose calling CO2 "pollution" - "greenhouse gas" is more appropriate i think. About sinkholes: i have some Greek and Russian friends living in Russia that tell me you never know where and when they will happen - Russians use it as an excuse for their (usually) non-existant (paved) roads!
Slashdot Mirror
Not only should you get it in writing, but make sure that the person signing the contract is sufficiently empowered to act on behalf of the business.
This is the best advise - business is business, added bonus that you may avoid damaging any personal relation.
Hmmm... i think your comment is more correctly/accurately related to Mercury's generation (or not) of magnetic field than mine!
There may be differences in understanding between Modern Greek and Koine Greek as used by the Jewish community in late antiquity.
As i wrote brother i am Greek (born, raised, living in Greece), and my Greek are the "common" Greek (i.e., the Modern... Koine!). I understand that a non-Greek (or even a Greek...!) may be confused sometimes by Greek (as i am with English!), as surely Jews was at the time, but...
"hUpo nomon" was coined by St. Paul to represent "under a regime resulting from the legalistic perversion of the commandments of the Mosaic Law".
St. Paul ("Apostle of the nations" for us Greeks) -my personal "favorite" actualy!- is a special case i think, and i find his thoughts... -in a strange way- very "Greek" (i can not explain it better...)
There is an "abstraction layer" that only in the past three decades has been rediscovered by Biblical scholars.
I trust NON-Greek (!) Biblical scholars for their scientificaly good work!
IC XC NIKA
IC XC NIKA
Since you're doing this on the company's nickel, it's known as "work for hire." You have no ownership rights. Also, since you're developing this using their resources on their time, why would you expect to be able to resell it when it's clearly their property? That would be like being hired to make donuts, making a batch with your boss's ingredients and tools while being paid, and expecting to keep the profit.
You are right in everything you wrote but you probably missed this part of what (s)he wrote "I have a good relationship with management", so, (s)he expects some kind of an "unsigned verbal agreement" to be respected, something that is not uncommon - what is problematic (other than this agreement not to be respected) very often with this kind of agreements is that you end up not to agree with the other party on what you have agreed, either because someone forgot the details or just because you did not ever had any such agreement!
"Then who can be saved?". And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
New business opportunity for the Vatican -- cloud backups!
But they are already in this business, since their mission statement is to save people and their vision statement to abolish the church when their mission is completed, with the Good Book as their values' statement - and they offer great value for money because you can use their services for free (all you have to do is go to some church and save yourself free of charge - any funding needed for this is provided from Catholics, you don't have to worry about it).
Disclaimer: i am not -directly- affiliated with the Vatican, i am a member of the Greek Orthodox Christian Church (actually a competitor in this "saving people" business - you can try us also, we claim to be better, but we will be happy if you choose any Christian Church my brother!)
"I'm not religious, but this kind of shit only makes me think of that famous line: "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven."
I'm religious, but i object on using this passage for this case, or at least use it for both parties (i.e., including the laid-off workers), since this passage (originaly written in Greek - by the way, i am Greek!) is about any person who is attached to any possession (in Greek the word used in the passage for "rich/richness" it is not only about excessive wealth): "Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God". When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, "Then who can be saved?". And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
In more political terms, it can be argued that the workers are attached to their wealth, not willing to accept less money for their work, so poorer (H-1B visa) workers replace them. Personaly, as a Greek right-wing/nationalist, i am against excessively free immigration (even legal), something the European left-wing demands, accusing people with my ideology as "racist" (even if many such immigrants are of my general race, but of different ethnicity/nationality) - when i ask them about this issue, and i tell them that immigrants are willing to work for less money and by that lower the average payment, they get angry with me... well, i am stupid, so i guess that this "equal pay" (left-wing's other demand) means that those laid-off workers are to blame for loosing their job!
Olives. Have you got anything else?
No olives for you barbarian... only cheeseburger!
it stopped spinning.
Yes, based on the dynamo theory, the core stoped spinning, so no generation of magnetic field.
Pointing out a flaw in someone else's software should not, by itself, be a criminal act. Once the information is public, automating the exploit could be done by anyone proficient in the art.
But selling a tool that uses the vulnerability? They crossed a line, but throwing the book at them seems a little harsh.
My latest comment, just before i write this, is an answer to a fellow Slashdoter that complained that i am a "Greek attention whore" - now you complain because Athanasios Andrianakis (the second one that was arrested) is a Greek(-American) hacker that develops and SELLS software. And then i read all these stuff about "the lazy Greeks that must work and pay back their loans". What is wrong with you barbarians? Make up your mind! What do you want from us Greeks? The guy apparently is a honest men trying to do the right thing - earn some money, make some payments, you know... help the economy.
On a more serious tone: his software designed to plunder private and password-protected information by breaching the security of a site, and since the saying in Greece is like "prison bars are for brave men"... our mister brave, should be brave now!
Is it just you or are all Greeks such attention whores?
We are (almost) all - as we say: "Greek is not a nationality but a profession". But don't you think that the fact that mister Haikalis (the one that wrote the original article, and head of the NY athority) being a Greek (American) civil engineer and transportation planner (so surely -as everyone is, even non-Greeks- influenced by the other -world famous, as Oscar Niemeyer is, in the field- Greek city planner, mister Doxiadis - the one that was proposing for Athens airport what is proposed here 4 decades ago, and finaly been done recently) is something a Greek Slashdoter like me should not mention? Why you object? I can see now that i was modded up "5 informative", so some other Slashdoters (i can bet that they were not Greeks) found it related. And i mention often that i am Greek because: a) i have communication problems in a mostly American site (not only language -see my sig-, but cultural also) b) ... Greek pride! So, please answer me, what is your problem pal?
Would I be correct in assuming that you're Greek yourself? It's just that you've never mentioned it before.
I hope you will read this, it would be the last time (or one of the last) that i will write it to you my dear: use your Slashdot account, don't be a coward.
I take it you're part of the typical "I'm not a racist, but..." group that exists in Greece?
Why you think FACTS are "rasist"? And you are very wrong about me being part of the typical "I'm not a racist, but..." group... very wrong, because i have stated in Slashdot already enough times what i am (e.g., http://slashdot.org/comments.p...) - but crime statistics are not "racists" (because among non-Greeks criminals in Greece exist people of the same general race Greeks are part of, but of other ethnicity).
Yes, i agree, math is not so popular...
Better than an alternate theory is actual facts: In the U.S. [...]
I agree with you Sir, so i post some official FACTS that support your comment:
2012 Arrests by Race, Black, percent distribution: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter (49.4%), forcible rape (32.5%), robbery (54.9%); Census Population by Race, Black: 13.2%.
source: FBI http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cj... - census http://quickfacts.census.gov/q...
Crime statistics from Greece (still low crime rates compared to most of the world, but huge difference from when Greece became more NON-Greek!)
Population: Greeks (9.903.268 - including all Greek citizens, i.e., even about 3% officialy non-ethnic Greeks...) - NON-Greeks (708.003 - officialy 70% of them "undocumented immigrants"...)
Crime Perpetrators:
Homocide: Greeks (264) - NON-Greeks (188)
Rape: Greeks (117) - NON-Greeks (76)
Robbery: Greeks (1,316) - NON-Greeks (896)
Sources: latest (2011) official population census: http://www.statistics.gr/porta... - latest (2013) official police data: http://www.astynomia.gr/images...
Not everyone thinks closing down the old airport in Athens was a good idea. In fact most people I have discussed this with (mainly people who fly a lot) think that they should have kept the newest terminal (which was quite good) and serve at least some short-haul flights from there. Sure, there is a subway to the Airport, but it is a very long way away (which is of course even more of a problem if you can't take the subway). It is not that good to have to make a 1 hour trip to the airport to catch a 1 hour flight to an island... The old airport had a great location and its only problem was that it was the only one serving Athens. Few cities the size of Athens have only 1 airport.
My fellow Greek (and Athenian), i admit that it was an exaggeration to use the phrase "but now everyone agrees" - but you must admit that we Greeks are exaggerate any complaint we have, so it is like the complain i have from the new airport because it is not next to my room ("griniarides"), and that considering all the issues (limits of the old airport, no ability to expand it, serious need for charters's area, etc) the only solution was to build a new one (Doxiadis propose it 4 decades ago!!!). And you also need to admit that since we planed this new airport to be so big (thank God, and now we plan to expand it more!), it would be financialy unsustainable to keep both (i am sure you know our little financial "crisis" thing... i just mention the situation we are in now).
Also, people living near the airport are rightfully afraid that the freed land will be used for ugly residential development (Athens specializes in that) and also the surrounding areas that were kept from becoming as urbanized as the center of Athens partly due to the airport-imposed building height limit, will star getting the usual 6-story buildings. When it was first decided the old airport would close, politicians promised it would be our "metropolitan park", every year they reduce the size of the promised park and increase the area for development. Now we have reached the point where even a \. poster thinks it is a good idea to use that area for development to "bring few billions Euros" (sic)! Yeah, an even uglier and unhealthier Athens is what is needed, just sell everything!
I will repeat what i just wrote in some other comment in this thread to some non Greek civil engineer:
"Athens's old airport (the biggest free zone for city development in Europe) is inside the city, next to the sea, in a great place, surrounded by upper class neighbourhoods. The original plan was to create the biggest city park in Europe, since until 2008 we didn't yet had the well known now "Greek financial crisis". Some few city planners and politicians (with who i agreed also) proposed at that time to create exactly what you -negatively- describe (a super-rich people's mega neighbourhood), and with the profits to buy some blocks inside the center of the city, demolish the buildings, and create many smaller parks instead of the huge park in an already upper class area. But most Greeks were against that plan because... "why have the rich build their houses in such a great place?" (the same think you support i think). Now, and because of the "Greek financial crisis", we will do it that (the project already started), but since now we need those billions Euros the projects we hope will bring to Greece for other things (i.e., not go bankrupt), we must forget the smaller parks inside the city's center. But even now, this development will be good for all the people of Athens (and Greece!) since a a super-rich people's mega neighbourhood brings profits to the city and the rest of the people (you know... Capitalism, the invisible hand, etc, something we Greeks -and you- don't like it so much, but anyway...)"
Surely the rest of the world does not need to watch 2 Greeks fight each other over politics, let those barbarians think that we are civilized... i am righ-wing, i strongly support austerity, so, you understand: "mnimoniakos germanotsolias" - if we start, we would end up in Greek exchanging "ante gamisou re malaka"... and it would be all "Greek" for the rest Slashdoters!
Sure, I'll explain. Right now, La Guardia is shared use land. Everybody in the city gets access to the benefits of that property. It's a public resource, used by the public for transportation. Yes, many airlines lease space on it, and no, you can't go build a squatter village on it, but it is, very effectively, a public space.
On the other hand, when developed, the site will be only for those rich enough to be able to afford a million dollar apartment. Those who can pay the most will get the best views, and those who were making an honest living working at LGA will either find themselves working for the super-rich, or more likely, unemployed. YEs, there will be construction jobs, but those will leave, and all that will be left for the majority of people in NYC will be a larger traffic problem on the bridges and tunnels. How is that not stealing from the citizenry for the benefit of the few?
Thanks for answering, allow me to use the case i already mentioned, my own city's, Athens Greece, old airport (many Slashdoters are tired with me always mentioning that i am Greek - it is some Greek pride, but it is a good example also for what you mention).
Athens's old airport (the biggest free zone for city development in Europe) is inside the city, next to the sea, in a great place, surrounded by upper class neighbourhoods. The original plan was to create the biggest city park in Europe, since until 2008 we didn't yet had the well known now "Greek financial crisis". Some few city planners and politicians (with who i agreed also) proposed at that time to create exactly what you -negatively- describe (a super-rich people's mega neighbourhood), and with the profits to buy some blocks inside the center of the city, demolish the buildings, and create many smaller parks instead of the huge park in an already upper class area. But most Greeks were against that plan because... "why have the rich build their houses in such a great place?" (the same think you support i think). Now, and because of the "Greek financial crisis", we will do it that (the project already started), but since now we need those billions Euros the projects we hope will bring to Greece for other things (i.e., not go bankrupt), we must forget the smaller parks inside the city's center. But even now, this development will be good for all the people of Athens (and Greece!) since a a super-rich people's mega neighbourhood brings profits to the city and the rest of the people (you know... Capitalism, the invisible hand, etc, something we Greeks -and you- don't like it so much, but anyway...)
As i already wrote, i am not an engineer/architect (while you are, as you wrote), but as i also wrote, city planning is more than what the civil engineers/architects know/want, and you prove my point because you mostly oppose the closure of NY GL airport airport on political issues/views, not on technical reasons. City planning is also a social/economic/political issue, so some factors of it are beyong your technical field - i respect your knowledge in that field (i am a fucking ignorant in it), but you should not use my respect as you did (i.e., writting "But, I'm just a civil engineer, what the hell do I know") when your most important objectiions are actually ideological - in that "discussion universe" (social/economic/political) you are just one more citizen (hopefully respected for his technical knowledge, but not with more value in the decisions making). I would like to repeat again that i don't doubt that you are a good civil engineer - but i oppose your ideological based objections (that you attempt to present as civil engineering issues).
That's really the point' isn't it. This is a plan to steal billions of dollars of land at the expense of everyone flying into and out of New York. The only expansion LGA needs is the subway. Not a stupid light rail that makes you connect to the subway, but just continue the N train and get rid of the cab stand. The stupid light rail, by the way will save no one time, and consequently will not help. But, I'm just a civil engineer, what the hell do I know
I am not a civil engineer/architect/city/transportation planner (but i have met all major Greeks, including associates of those i mentioned earlier) and i don't know the NY LG airport case, but, and excuse me, i find stupid this conspiracy of yours (i.e., "steal billions of dollars of land" - obviously related to what i wrote "And the old airport's area, inside Athens (and next to the sea), is now the biggest free zone for city development in Europe [...]"). Can you answer who is the thief and from who is stealing? Because even if you dont count all the other benefits of a new airport, changing land usage in an expanded/expanding city is something healthy and can not be considered "stealing". I don't doubt that the technical details you wrote are right, nor that you are a good civil engineer, but sometimes other factors are more important in such decisions, factors that are beyong your technical field. As i mentioned i have met all major Greeks civil engineer/architect (some of them you may know them too, even if you are not Greek): once, when all of them together, they discussed (as auto-criticism) how they destroyed Athens in the 50-60-70's decade(s) - the conclusion by the engineer/architect was that city planning is too important to be left to you guys!
Well, George Haikalis (civil engineer / transportation planner), as a Greek (American), is apparently influenced by the ideas of Constantinos Doxiadis, a well known internationally Greek architect and city planner (e.g., master planner of Pakistan's capital new builded city, Islamabad) who was proposing closing our old airport in Athens and building a new for decades before that happened (just before the 2004 Olympics) - our new Athens airport, while far from the city center (but with an express metro rail link), is far more efficient, and has contributed to the economy (don't laugh... at least our tourism does great, this year we had more than 20 million visits in Greece -double our population-, many of them landing in Athens before going to the islands, something our old airport could not provide because of its limits). Many (most) Athenians were against the new airport (and/or closing our old), but now everyone agrees that it was the right thing. And the old airport's area, inside Athens (and next to the sea), is now the biggest free zone for city development in Europe (something we hope will bring few billions Euros, as we may need them right now!). But the key was the express metro rail link between the airport and Athens center, something George Haikalis surely used many times - if Athens can do it right, NY can do it better.
The happiest people in the world live in Denmark's communal housing.
This Pulp's "Common People" song (about a rich Greek girl) and this (few days old, on BBC) interview part of mister Varoufakis (Greek minister of finance) about his wife (and actuall girl of the song) may explain it.
As nice as communism sounds
Never sounded nice to me, and of course it fails every where it is implemented.
Never sounded nice to me either, and of course it always failed when implemented, but Communism (and, its direct ancestor, Socialism) sounds nice to many people - the most common characteristic the vast majority of those people share is that they did NOT lived it to know better and that they are not wise enough to accept the advise of the vast majority of people who lived it...
As a Greek i know many Greek Communists (we were lucky enough to avoid Communism in Greece, so... too many Greek Comminists!), and many immigrants in Greece from former Communist -mostly Slavic- states (the most anti-Communists people in Greece...).
We, new kids on the block, should stick together... find few more like us, then find some low digit slashdoter to bully and earn some respect - don't tell anyone, that's our plan partner!
Too much for who? Some Northern countries (e.g., Russia) may consider a blessing this "global warming"
Only if they are very stupid. Chaos is a-comin'. Noticed the increase in Russian sinkholes?
Yes, Russia's sinkholes are impressive, and with some more of this "global warming" they will become even more, but once it sinks for good, and things settle down...
But in a more serious tone (not that i am joking so far), i just oppose calling CO2 "pollution" - "greenhouse gas" is more appropriate i think. About sinkholes: i have some Greek and Russian friends living in Russia that tell me you never know where and when they will happen - Russians use it as an excuse for their (usually) non-existant (paved) roads!
What tricks do you use to keep yourself on task?
Until few days ago i used to not have a Slashdot account...
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