"I recall an operating system that was fairly rushed to get out, called Windows 95"
I thought you would use a more recent example like OS X. I bought it for my iMac and it was horrible at first. It didn't get anywhere near acceptable until 10.2 (which I had to pay for again). In fact many people don't even support versions prior to 10.15 they were so bad. At least MS still supported win95 up until last year sucky though it was and it died long after it should have (if only winME would go with it).
That's fine for desktops. My iMac has a 5 button MS mouse attached. I keep the round one button mouse in a drawer and pull it out whenever anyone starts preaching about the famous Apple design esthetic. Flipping through a Mac magazine the other day I noticed that even third party mice made for the Mac have more than one button. My gripe is with the laptops. Since Apple knows that most people just toss the one button mouse in favor of a real mouse why not just include two buttons, especially on the laptops?
Bullshit. You got cocky and outsmarted yourself. Wipe the egg off your face and move on. Don't try and spin it in a way that makes you look cool because it's much too late for that.
But in CS you see an icon above their head when they talk so you know who is talking. It's nice to have so when someone says "Follow me. Lets go this way." you know who to follow.
What I'd like to see is voice to be directional and change with distance. So when the player is to your right you hear them from the right and when they are far away it sounds like they are far away. For this you would need support from the game. I saw a demo for this at WinHEC a few years back so I know that it is built into directX. I just wish game developers would start using it.
I agree. For me it's the in game voice com that keeps me. It adds a level of game play that other games without it can't match. I've since tried other games without voice com and felt there was something missing. Why haven't more games added this feature? Sure the graphics are a bit dated but the game play is what really makes a game.
This sounds like a neat idea but how soon will the flash memory reach it's write limit? Isn't in the order of a million writes or so?
Just some off the cuff theorizing but I would assume the OS would do lots of writes to certain system files and that limit would be reached in a matter of weeks.
Thanks for clearing that up. Good info. At WinHEC they gave a presentation on the upcoming changes to the WDF. Apparently in the Longhorn timeframe they plan to make it possible to have real user mode drivers, albeit with many restrictions.
off topic aside: My Outlook spell checker just offered to correct WDF to WTF. Made me chuckle.
"Well, of course, there are a couple discussions going on here -- the GUI and the underlying OS."
Yep. What pulled my chain was that the parent lumped the win9x and NT kernels into the same comparison.
"But OS/2 was superior to Windows 95." True. In a lot of ways the Amiga 500 kernel was superior to the Windows 95 kernel. That's a pretty low bar to set.:)
What? How can you lump win9x and win2k together in a comparison of kernels and expect anyone to take you seriously. They are two completely different kernels. As for copying from OS/2 I don't think so. When Dave Cutler came over from DEC (where he was the architect of VMS) he scrapped the OS/2 plans they had with IBM and started on NT. So it would be more fair to say that NT copied stuff from VMS. He even based the name on VMS. WNT == ++VMS.
"Also, printerdrivers don't run in Ring 0. They do on NT (and on windows 2000/XP as well, if you install old drivers. There's no warning or nothing. Yay.)"
Please clarify your point. On NT/2k/XP all drivers run in Ring0. Why should printer drivers be different? As far as security goes printers can be locked down just like any system object. This has nothing to do with the underlying driver though.
"Now, what the author of the article fails to point out, is that the more significant difference between the operating systems, is that one requires the use of GUI display"
That is not correct. NT (and hence XP) was designed with the flexibility to support multiple OS Environments. One such option is the POSIX environment which is not a GUI. So it is optional in both, albeit more optional with Linux because the Win32 environment is the default with XP.
I freely admit that I don't know much about Linux (blasphemy I know). That isn't what the original poster was asking though. He was challenging someone to point out a feature that Apple added after Microsoft. Jobs did say in his WWDC keynote a year ago that MS beat them to this feature. So It's not FUD at all.
"I configured my system to make sure anybody coming along did not have access to all the terminals I was using. It's not hard at all."
Interesting as this sounds, if that isn't how it works by default I would say that it isn't a true comparison.
It does what it needs(sic), 40G of storage, no remote though:( but an FM tuner AND FM transmitter all in one. I bought it because it has the most features for the price, is the right size for me, has OGG support doesn't make me look like an iSheep.
I'll agree with you there. It's all just personal preference. I like the Neuros player interface the best. It is simple to use and has programmable function buttons that make it more powerful. I'll take simple + powerful over just simple any day.
LOL. Are you stalking me dude? We just had this argument last week. At least you aren't all annon coward on me, and I respect you for that. So I have an honest question this time.
I'm not familiar with the Linux implementation but I suspect it is not quite the same thing. When I switch in MS to my kids account I can walk away knowing that he can't access my account. What you describe sounds a lot like the su command which just lets the user have access to different terminals. If you launch Firefox do you then get the other person's favorite list or still yours?
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Hold on I'll ask him. He's out back mowing my lawn.
His answer was "No hablo inglés", whatever that means.
"I recall an operating system that was fairly rushed to get out, called Windows 95"
I thought you would use a more recent example like OS X. I bought it for my iMac and it was horrible at first. It didn't get anywhere near acceptable until 10.2 (which I had to pay for again). In fact many people don't even support versions prior to 10.15 they were so bad. At least MS still supported win95 up until last year sucky though it was and it died long after it should have (if only winME would go with it).
That's fine for desktops. My iMac has a 5 button MS mouse attached. I keep the round one button mouse in a drawer and pull it out whenever anyone starts preaching about the famous Apple design esthetic. Flipping through a Mac magazine the other day I noticed that even third party mice made for the Mac have more than one button.
My gripe is with the laptops. Since Apple knows that most people just toss the one button mouse in favor of a real mouse why not just include two buttons, especially on the laptops?
Bullshit.
You got cocky and outsmarted yourself.
Wipe the egg off your face and move on. Don't try and spin it in a way that makes you look cool because it's much too late for that.
But in CS you see an icon above their head when they talk so you know who is talking. It's nice to have so when someone says "Follow me. Lets go this way." you know who to follow.
What I'd like to see is voice to be directional and change with distance. So when the player is to your right you hear them from the right and when they are far away it sounds like they are far away. For this you would need support from the game. I saw a demo for this at WinHEC a few years back so I know that it is built into directX. I just wish game developers would start using it.
I agree. For me it's the in game voice com that keeps me. It adds a level of game play that other games without it can't match. I've since tried other games without voice com and felt there was something missing. Why haven't more games added this feature?
Sure the graphics are a bit dated but the game play is what really makes a game.
But if the players have to have their own copy of the game why would they play at the cafe?
The whole model doesn't seem well thought out.
Every good joke needs a seed of identifiable truth to lay at it's heart or it would not be funny.
I'll leave it at that.
If it's USB 2 can you make the thumb drive itself bootable?
This sounds like a neat idea but how soon will the flash memory reach it's write limit? Isn't in the order of a million writes or so?
Just some off the cuff theorizing but I would assume the OS would do lots of writes to certain system files and that limit would be reached in a matter of weeks.
You might try RC2. I had the same problem with my Intel VPN client. Works fine under RC2 though.
That's just great!
Now I need to cover my whole house!
*sigh*
Thanks for clearing that up.
Good info. At WinHEC they gave a presentation on the upcoming changes to the WDF. Apparently in the Longhorn timeframe they plan to make it possible to have real user mode drivers, albeit with many restrictions.
off topic aside: My Outlook spell checker just offered to correct WDF to WTF. Made me chuckle.
"Well, of course, there are a couple discussions going on here -- the GUI and the underlying OS."
:)
Yep. What pulled my chain was that the parent lumped the win9x and NT kernels into the same comparison.
"But OS/2 was superior to Windows 95."
True. In a lot of ways the Amiga 500 kernel was superior to the Windows 95 kernel. That's a pretty low bar to set.
You have to install MS Services for Unix.
You can get it from here
Glad the grain of truth you saw made you laugh. You've inspired me to make it my sig.
It's Thursday here btw and I'm thinking for myself just fine.
What? How can you lump win9x and win2k together in a comparison of kernels and expect anyone to take you seriously. They are two completely different kernels.
As for copying from OS/2 I don't think so. When Dave Cutler came over from DEC (where he was the architect of VMS) he scrapped the OS/2 plans they had with IBM and started on NT. So it would be more fair to say that NT copied stuff from VMS.
He even based the name on VMS. WNT == ++VMS.
"Also, printerdrivers don't run in Ring 0. They do on NT (and on windows 2000/XP as well, if you install old drivers. There's no warning or nothing. Yay.)"
Please clarify your point. On NT/2k/XP all drivers run in Ring0. Why should printer drivers be different?
As far as security goes printers can be locked down just like any system object. This has nothing to do with the underlying driver though.
"Now, what the author of the article fails to point out, is that the more significant difference between the operating systems, is that one requires the use of GUI display"
That is not correct. NT (and hence XP) was designed with the flexibility to support multiple OS Environments. One such option is the POSIX environment which is not a GUI.
So it is optional in both, albeit more optional with Linux because the Win32 environment is the default with XP.
I freely admit that I don't know much about Linux (blasphemy I know). That isn't what the original poster was asking though. He was challenging someone to point out a feature that Apple added after Microsoft. Jobs did say in his WWDC keynote a year ago that MS beat them to this feature. So It's not FUD at all.
"I configured my system to make sure anybody coming along did not have access to all the terminals I was using. It's not hard at all."
Interesting as this sounds, if that isn't how it works by default I would say that it isn't a true comparison.
It does what it needs(sic), 40G of storage, no remote though :( but an FM tuner AND FM transmitter all in one. I bought it because it has the most features for the price, is the right size for me, has OGG support doesn't make me look like an iSheep.
I'll agree with you there. It's all just personal preference. I like the Neuros player interface the best. It is simple to use and has programmable function buttons that make it more powerful. I'll take simple + powerful over just simple any day.
LOL. Are you stalking me dude? We just had this argument last week. At least you aren't all annon coward on me, and I respect you for that. So I have an honest question this time.
I'm not familiar with the Linux implementation but I suspect it is not quite the same thing. When I switch in MS to my kids account I can walk away knowing that he can't access my account. What you describe sounds a lot like the su command which just lets the user have access to different terminals.
If you launch Firefox do you then get the other person's favorite list or still yours?
Also, XP SP2 has Messenger off by default.
"Explain to me what Apple has copied... especially from Microsoft."
Fast User Switching.
Even Jobs admits MS beat them to it.