Plus Linux doesn't need or want something like BK. BK is distributed, whereas kernel development isn't (in the same meaning that is - kernel development has one main centralised vcs tree)
What? The robots attacked and try to kill him! How on earth is that in line with Asimov's theme? It went against everything he stood for! Asimov was fed up of the same old man-build-robot, robot-attacks-man theme, and said we wouldn't be stupid enough to do this.
In the asimov world, perhaps the super computer could decide it's best to imprison humans due to the zeroth law, but how on earth on earth would it reprogram all the other (non-zeroth law) robots to kill? The whole point was that it was hardwired into its very presence that it can't kill.
The movie creators took a book that was the very turning point of robot fiction, and created a movie that went against everything it stood for.
Koffice is frankly amazing. There's about half a dozen developers in total on the whole project, and yet they manage to develop at a fairly decent pace. QT helps a huge amount indirectly. For example the rendering problems we have been having in kword will hopefully be sorted out by simple switching to the new QT4 widgets. No code in koffice needed. OO.org on the other hand has to reinvent all that itself.
Actually I think it's wierd that noone else has mentioned this really.
I'm a kde developer, and have from time to time contributed to OO.org, and actually signed the agreement they force you to sign to contribute.
But because I'm a KDE developer, I feel that my time is better spent with koffice. Having the word processor integrate seemlessly into KDE is very important to me.
I think a very large percentage of developers are are GTK or QT/KDE developers, and don't like to develop outside that as it doesn't help their desktop.
> 'imaginary numbers' (which don't technically exist but are still useful),
This is a bit of a misnomer.. 'real numbers' don't exist either. We can give meaning to real numbers (This number means the height of person in meters) but we can also give meaning to complex numbers (the real bit means kinetic energy, imaginary bit means potential energy - as used in oscillations, which is a huge part, if not majority, of physics)
Bah, you're not gonna solve poverty with a couple of million dollars. All movies cost several million dollars. Do you never watch dvd's either, or listen to music in protest of the wasted money?
I think you're confused by what the strawman argument is. It's when one side makes an argument, you take a small part, make some generalisation, disprove the generalisation, and feel that ergo you disproved the argument.
In this case:
Firefox is not more secure, proven as such: * Firefox is non-microsoft * Many people equate non-microsoft as more secure * Many people when judging secureness forget to take into account the installed base. * Therefore Firefox is not more secure
This is a strawman argument. Nothing to do with politics.
I have also tried to persuade the gnumeric guys to support OASIS. The response was basically 'sure we'll export to it if someone codes it. It's up to the distro which format it will export to by default'.
Hi,
I just want to double on that SELinux comment. It's not some fringe thing or anything, but a major effort funded by the NSA and due to be put into the linux kernel. It's going to be extremely interesting when distros support it better.
I'm a kde developer, and want to reply regarding the bounty system..
It was rejected because the developers weren't convinced it would have a positive impact, and pointed out there is no reason why the bounty system couldn't be implemented outside of KDE. Anyone could setup a website for a bounty system for kde apps. But the kde developers themselves did not feel the hassle and difficulty in trying to such a system working was worthwhile. (And there's a lot of subtleties involved. Imagine one user does 90% of the work, and another does the final 10% and finishes it off - who gets the money?). The issue was discussed for ages and ages, trying to find a way it could work.
This is a case of the developers being whole heartedly cooperative with the users, but deciding in the end that a 3rd party needs to do it instead, or some sort of proof of concept. That's a far cry from users not having influence.
I'm not convinced it was a mistake. It was a good stop gap solution for the 3 years (or was it 2? I lose track of time).
I know it's a pain to switch to something else now, but it's been good while it lasted, and part (most?) of the increase in productivity has been from Linus being forced to learn to delegate better. Just this alone is worth it.
Also what hypocrisy is there from Linus? Has he said somewhere that reverse engineering the BK protocol is immoral and unethical? Has he said the opposite for the samba team? Where exactly is the hypocrisy?
Also remember that there really wasn't much alternative 3 years ago. What solution would you have chosen 3 years ago?
"This quickly makes the eyes tired, and is not suitable for long-term use"
What? Can you explain why this would make the eyes tired? My guess would be that it cuts the refresh rate in 2, hence your eyes hurt from the low refresh.. no?
"Every major religion recognizes that there was a man Jesus of Nazareth who lived about 2000 years ago in the land now known as Israel. This is not disputed by any main stream religion or government."
Religions?? Government?? Since when are either of those authorative talkers on history?
If you wanted to make the point that the guy probably existed, then you should have stated (if true) that most historians in this area agree that he existed.
"The problem is that some people in the free software business place idiology and self-interest over practicality"
Well, DUH. It bugs me no end when people say about free software advocates place idiology over practicality. What do you expect?
Plus, purely practically, you have to look at the long term view. In the short term, perhaps we will get more drivers, but in the long term it's far better for us all to force manufacturers to open their specs. They won't have any motivation to do that if we make it easy for them to make binary only drivers.
For now. With time hardware manufactures won't be able to afford to ignore the linux side. Look at what has happened to raid cards etc and any other server hardware. Manufacturers fall over themselves to provide linux support.
The same will happen one day. For now we have to keep pushing and not buy hardware from those that don't.
I hate replying to anon's, as it's unlikely they will read the reply... but anyway..
Every programming job I've had has been code for only one company. Mostly intranet/extranet coding (lotus domino shit), but also various programs for research companies etc. I can't imagine any of those jobs going if everything became opensource.
* Linus works for OSDL and uses bitkeeper. * Some other programmer worked on reverse engineering just the protocol for work. * Larry asked OSDL to stop it. * OSDL took the programmer off the project * Said programmer continued on the protocol in his own time * Larry asked OSDL to force the programmer to stop coding in his spare time. * OSDL shrugged their shoulders, saying what on earth can we do? Fire him? * OSDL declared all developers are in violation and revoked license.
I know bruce has already said this, but how can you possibly say OSDL "fucked them over" by refusing to fire an employee who hacking on a project in his spare time!?
Slashdot Mirror
Plus Linux doesn't need or want something like BK. BK is distributed, whereas kernel development isn't (in the same meaning that is - kernel development has one main centralised vcs tree)
What? The robots attacked and try to kill him! How on earth is that in line with Asimov's theme? It went against everything he stood for! Asimov was fed up of the same old man-build-robot, robot-attacks-man theme, and said we wouldn't be stupid enough to do this.
In the asimov world, perhaps the super computer could decide it's best to imprison humans due to the zeroth law, but how on earth on earth would it reprogram all the other (non-zeroth law) robots to kill? The whole point was that it was hardwired into its very presence that it can't kill.
The movie creators took a book that was the very turning point of robot fiction, and created a movie that went against everything it stood for.
Koffice is frankly amazing. There's about half a dozen developers in total on the whole project, and yet they manage to develop at a fairly decent pace. QT helps a huge amount indirectly. For example the rendering problems we have been having in kword will hopefully be sorted out by simple switching to the new QT4 widgets. No code in koffice needed. OO.org on the other hand has to reinvent all that itself.
Actually I think it's wierd that noone else has mentioned this really.
I'm a kde developer, and have from time to time contributed to OO.org, and actually signed the agreement they force you to sign to contribute.
But because I'm a KDE developer, I feel that my time is better spent with koffice. Having the word processor integrate seemlessly into KDE is very important to me.
I think a very large percentage of developers are are GTK or QT/KDE developers, and don't like to develop outside that as it doesn't help their desktop.
Going offtopic, but:
> 'imaginary numbers' (which don't technically exist but are still useful),
This is a bit of a misnomer.. 'real numbers' don't exist either. We can give meaning to real numbers (This number means the height of person in meters) but we can also give meaning to complex numbers (the real bit means kinetic energy, imaginary bit means potential energy - as used in oscillations, which is a huge part, if not majority, of physics)
Yeah, it was promised to be included about 6 months ago, but I hadn't been following developments, so decided to err on the safe side.
Bah, you're not gonna solve poverty with a couple of million dollars. All movies cost several million dollars. Do you never watch dvd's either, or listen to music in protest of the wasted money?
I think you're confused by what the strawman argument is.
It's when one side makes an argument, you take a small part, make some generalisation, disprove the generalisation, and feel that ergo you disproved the argument.
In this case:
Firefox is not more secure, proven as such:
* Firefox is non-microsoft
* Many people equate non-microsoft as more secure
* Many people when judging secureness forget to take into account the installed base.
* Therefore Firefox is not more secure
This is a strawman argument. Nothing to do with politics.
I have also tried to persuade the gnumeric guys to support OASIS. The response was basically 'sure we'll export to it if someone codes it. It's up to the distro which format it will export to by default'.
Hi,
I just want to double on that SELinux comment. It's not some fringe thing or anything, but a major effort funded by the NSA and due to be put into the linux kernel. It's going to be extremely interesting when distros support it better.
I'm a kde developer, and want to reply regarding the bounty system..
It was rejected because the developers weren't convinced it would have a positive impact, and pointed out there is no reason why the bounty system couldn't be implemented outside of KDE. Anyone could setup a website for a bounty system for kde apps. But the kde developers themselves did not feel the hassle and difficulty in trying to such a system working was worthwhile. (And there's a lot of subtleties involved. Imagine one user does 90% of the work, and another does the final 10% and finishes it off - who gets the money?). The issue was discussed for ages and ages, trying to find a way it could work.
This is a case of the developers being whole heartedly cooperative with the users, but deciding in the end that a 3rd party needs to do it instead, or some sort of proof of concept.
That's a far cry from users not having influence.
.... Wow.
What can I say? You are totally right. I've just pasted those links to irc, and been discussing this. He was a total idiot that time.
I'm not convinced it was a mistake. It was a good stop gap solution for the 3 years (or was it 2? I lose track of time).
I know it's a pain to switch to something else now, but it's been good while it lasted, and part (most?) of the increase in productivity has been from Linus being forced to learn to delegate better. Just this alone is worth it.
Also what hypocrisy is there from Linus? Has he said somewhere that reverse engineering the BK protocol is immoral and unethical? Has he said the opposite for the samba team? Where exactly is the hypocrisy?
Also remember that there really wasn't much alternative 3 years ago. What solution would you have chosen 3 years ago?
Why is a barn door not stable?
"This quickly makes the eyes tired, and is not suitable for long-term use"
What? Can you explain why this would make the eyes tired? My guess would be that it cuts the refresh rate in 2, hence your eyes hurt from the low refresh.. no?
You sound like a religious guy.
"Every major religion recognizes that there was a man Jesus of Nazareth who lived about 2000 years ago in the land now known as Israel. This is not disputed by any main stream religion or government."
Religions?? Government?? Since when are either of those authorative talkers on history?
If you wanted to make the point that the guy probably existed, then you should have stated (if true) that most historians in this area agree that he existed.
I was talking about the child molester as well.
Wow, based on very little knowledge about the circumstances you declare you would kill the guy. People like you make me fear for tomorrow.
"The problem is that some people in the free software business place idiology and self-interest over practicality"
Well, DUH. It bugs me no end when people say about free software advocates place idiology over practicality. What do you expect?
Plus, purely practically, you have to look at the long term view.
In the short term, perhaps we will get more drivers, but in the long term it's far better for us all to force manufacturers to open their specs. They won't have any motivation to do that if we make it easy for them to make binary only drivers.
For now. With time hardware manufactures won't be able to afford to ignore the linux side. Look at what has happened to raid cards etc and any other server hardware. Manufacturers fall over themselves to provide linux support.
The same will happen one day. For now we have to keep pushing and not buy hardware from those that don't.
Also MSN which has frequent upgrades and totally refuses to work unless you log in as administrator and install the upgrade.
I hate replying to anon's, as it's unlikely they will read the reply... but anyway..
Every programming job I've had has been code for only one company. Mostly intranet/extranet coding (lotus domino shit), but also various programs for research companies etc. I can't imagine any of those jobs going if everything became opensource.
No, it's worse than that:
* Linus works for OSDL and uses bitkeeper.
* Some other programmer worked on reverse engineering just the protocol for work.
* Larry asked OSDL to stop it.
* OSDL took the programmer off the project
* Said programmer continued on the protocol in his own time
* Larry asked OSDL to force the programmer to stop coding in his spare time.
* OSDL shrugged their shoulders, saying what on earth can we do? Fire him?
* OSDL declared all developers are in violation and revoked license.
You make that sound like it's bad. OSS developers want a software commune. so what?
I know bruce has already said this, but how can you possibly say OSDL "fucked them over" by refusing to fire an employee who hacking on a project in his spare time!?