The idea of a perfect machine is a strawman argument, as is the idea of a perfect man. Perfection is a sticky idea; who knows if we can even agree on what a perfect man or machine would be?
But replace "perfect" with "better" and suddenly your argument looks kinda ridiculous. We can build a car that eats fuel more efficiently, all other things being equal. We can build a CPU that eats less power, runs faster, and is cheaper to manufacture than its predecessor.
If we can build a better machine, why can't we built a better human?
Wait. Go back to the part where OSX or Windows have dynamic themes or resolution-independent rendering. I must have missed that.
And no, I don't mean the idea that Quartz theoretically supports arbitrary-DPI displays but really uses bitmaps right now, but it *could* draw a vector desktop, any minute now. These are actual screenshots, right now.
Don't underestimate the power of the command line. Aside from allowing powerful (and not terribly difficult) scripting, and allowing one to run an application over a stupid ssh session, and allowing one to run a GUI-free server, it also lets people develop backends completely separate from the server itself. See transcode (http://www.transcoding.org/) for an example.
I don't see how forking is a problem. You don't seriously expect the ubergeek to run the same distro as her grandfather, do you? I *do* agree that things like filesystem stability are major selling points. However, I don't think that Seth Nickell would be hacking filesystem drivers if he weren't enabling stunning X effects.
... it should be pointed out that Jimbo Wales and many of his "lieutenants", as you say (I wonder if they get bitchin' uniforms) voted to delete the GNAA article, and yet there it stays, because of community (sigh) consensus.
If everyone seems to disagree with you, have you ever considered the possibility that you might be, y'know, wrong? If you come to Wikipedia to push your POV, there'll be a fight over it. Says so on the box. I know it might be a really foreign concept, but not everyone agrees with you.
The point of the audit is not, I think, that Wikipedia is an authoritative source and Britannica is not. It is, rather, that if you think a source is infallible, or even vaguely infallible, you're fooling yourself.
But you do have a point. I would like to see external audits of Wikipedia's featured articles versus their Britannica equivalents (though I doubt Britannica has an article about the heavy metal umlaut), and comparing that to an audit of random non-stub articles at least six months old versus their Britannica equivalents, and comparing that to an audit of random articles from the entire pool.
Well, really good articles are labeled featured articles and held up as examples of the best (the en) Wikipedia can produce. They can be fifteen (printed) pages or more; larger than that and they start spinning off sub-articles. (Like the ginormous collection of articles on WW2 which has summaries of the major facts, but links to a lot of more specific articles, which themselves link to sub-articles and so forth. This style is supposed to make it less daunting to go to an individual page, while still allowing for a lot---a lot---of detail.
There's also a discussion of article size that you might find helpful.
... but the two-letter abbreviations are ISO 639 language names, not (an obsolete) ISO 3166 country code (which also are used as internet domain name suffixes). This is why the English wikipedia is en.wikipedia.org, not us, uk or au. Or nz, I suppose. Languages don't map nicely to countries; there are languages that span many countries (English), countries with more than one official language (Switzerland) and languages with no country (Esperanto).
You know, it's shitty that you got modded down as Flamebait. Because I occasionally see posts like this and I immediately wonder how and where they happen. I've made several thousand edits, and have had someone revert them perhaps once or twice. Maybe this means I'm in line with the groupthink over there, but more likely it's that I make a lot of copyediting and nitpicking edits, not controversial ones.
I strongly urge you to show me the diffs where you got reverted. If you don't know how to do that, tell me the date and the article name and a vague idea of what you contributed (or, better, the username you used if you were logged in), and I'll have a look.
A lot of new editors do get reverted, because a lot of them write "GOATSE ROCKZORZ" on Ollie North's article to feel the power of "do you mean that when I hit submit, it's immediately visible to everyone?!".
Now, I'm not saying that's what you did. And if a good edit got reverted, I want to know about it, because I believe in the project and it pisses me off when that happens. So... show me the edits, or at least the way to them.
Well, I'd say that makes the current administration's actions toward its "detainees" a violation of everything the country was supposed to stand for, wouldn't you?
But then again, ignorance seems to be pretty rampant, enough so that Justice Scalia can call the Ten Commandments "a symbol that government derives its authority from God" and not get publically pimp-slapped for it.
'Cause if we go back to the Declaration, it stated that... all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness - That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed.
Scalia, who I'm sure knows better, can get away with this crap because of widespread ignorance. Why the ignorance? I couldn't tell you. But I tell you that this country is based on consent of the governed and preservation of their rights---and an administration that forgets that is a disgrace to the nation.
I think "no bearing" is a little harsh. The Declaration of Independence is the mission statement on which the country was founded. It contains a rejection of the divine right of kings, and recognition that rights are inherent in humans, not handed down from the government. No, it's not a document with the force of law, but it certainly stated a number of principles on which our law is based. It certainly doesn't have "no bearing" on that law.
Let's see... I'm over 200 pounds, but I'm over six feet. We'll count that. I own a black duster. Hell, I own two. Half my t-shirts were free giveaways, but I never owned a Star Wars shirt. I grow a beard out of laziness. I own a big black cowboy hat, which is close enough to a fedora. I don't carry a cell phone when I can help it, because I loathe cell phones. And I've never been to a Ren Faire, and won't ever if I can help it.
It's a little hard to respect my supervisors when they write like thirteen year olds in the chat room. 'u' and 'lol' and 'k'.
Me: Priority one! Ticket 123456---the server is on fire, notifying coordinators. Coordinator: u sure? k
For some reason, I assumed people didn't talk like this at work. I don't know where I got that idea from.
We also use an IRC channel as something like a continuously scrolling messageboard, to post important issues we should all be aware of. And yeah, people say 'lol' in it too.
I stopped trying to fix the spelling and grammar of others a while back, but I still think they sound like idiots.
We're supposed to be switching over to use Lotus SameTime, which has the advantage of displaying full names on the buddy list, so we don't have to figure out that "reaganchk23" is "Alice Smith". Aliases make this a non-issue after the first time you talk to someone, but SameTime makes it simple enough to look up other people as well.
But, of course, this just means that everyone has to run both AIM and SameTime.
Well, that's frickin' useless if you don't switch to gaim all over the company at once. It's like OpenOffice refusing to save documents in a format readable by MS Word.
I suppose there are probably good, technical reasons for it not working. Still, it'd be nice.
Did I mention that the AIM users were using AIM encryption with each other? I even get the little lock mini-icon appearing on their buddy list entries.
So... you're saying that gaim's encryption plugin doesn't interoperate with standard AIM's encryption? What good is it then?
I mean, if you can bring yourself to answer a fucking idiot's question...
I tried to use gaim-encryption with gaim on Windows at work. (We use AIM at work. Seriously.) It didn't seem to interoperate with anyone's vanilla AIM client with encryption. That is, no one was getting my IMs. I didn't have time to fuck with it, so I turned it off and just used unencrypted transport.
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The idea of a perfect machine is a strawman argument, as is the idea of a perfect man. Perfection is a sticky idea; who knows if we can even agree on what a perfect man or machine would be?
But replace "perfect" with "better" and suddenly your argument looks kinda ridiculous. We can build a car that eats fuel more efficiently, all other things being equal. We can build a CPU that eats less power, runs faster, and is cheaper to manufacture than its predecessor.
If we can build a better machine, why can't we built a better human?
--grendel drago
Wait. Go back to the part where OSX or Windows have dynamic themes or resolution-independent rendering. I must have missed that.
And no, I don't mean the idea that Quartz theoretically supports arbitrary-DPI displays but really uses bitmaps right now, but it *could* draw a vector desktop, any minute now. These are actual screenshots, right now.
--grendel drago
Don't underestimate the power of the command line. Aside from allowing powerful (and not terribly difficult) scripting, and allowing one to run an application over a stupid ssh session, and allowing one to run a GUI-free server, it also lets people develop backends completely separate from the server itself. See transcode (http://www.transcoding.org/) for an example.
I don't see how forking is a problem. You don't seriously expect the ubergeek to run the same distro as her grandfather, do you? I *do* agree that things like filesystem stability are major selling points. However, I don't think that Seth Nickell would be hacking filesystem drivers if he weren't enabling stunning X effects.
--grendel drago
Is that a Tannenbaum reference? "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway" and all...
--grendel drago
... it should be pointed out that Jimbo Wales and many of his "lieutenants", as you say (I wonder if they get bitchin' uniforms) voted to delete the GNAA article, and yet there it stays, because of community (sigh) consensus.
If everyone seems to disagree with you, have you ever considered the possibility that you might be, y'know, wrong? If you come to Wikipedia to push your POV, there'll be a fight over it. Says so on the box. I know it might be a really foreign concept, but not everyone agrees with you.
You might also be interested in WikiProject Countering Systemic Bias, which seeks to apply the same effort to articles on, say, the Lord's Resistance Army as they already do on the Ackermann function.
I'd like to think that folks like you would get further if you didn't have such an axe to grind.
--grendel drago
Just a little heads-up here---that's a chick.
Happy to help, my friend.
--grendel drago
Perhaps this isn't the answer you were looking, for but here is an independent audit of Britannica, showing errors that have been corrected in Wikipedia.
The point of the audit is not, I think, that Wikipedia is an authoritative source and Britannica is not. It is, rather, that if you think a source is infallible, or even vaguely infallible, you're fooling yourself.
Furthermore, Britannica doesn't have anything comparable to the Countering Systemic Bias project.
But you do have a point. I would like to see external audits of Wikipedia's featured articles versus their Britannica equivalents (though I doubt Britannica has an article about the heavy metal umlaut), and comparing that to an audit of random non-stub articles at least six months old versus their Britannica equivalents, and comparing that to an audit of random articles from the entire pool.
--grendel drago
Well, really good articles are labeled featured articles and held up as examples of the best (the en) Wikipedia can produce. They can be fifteen (printed) pages or more; larger than that and they start spinning off sub-articles. (Like the ginormous collection of articles on WW2 which has summaries of the major facts, but links to a lot of more specific articles, which themselves link to sub-articles and so forth. This style is supposed to make it less daunting to go to an individual page, while still allowing for a lot---a lot---of detail.
There's also a discussion of article size that you might find helpful.
--grendel drago
The article about the violent fear you feel when you're unable to locate your miniscule wang is right here.
Happy to help!
--grendel drago
... but the two-letter abbreviations are ISO 639 language names, not (an obsolete) ISO 3166 country code (which also are used as internet domain name suffixes). This is why the English wikipedia is en.wikipedia.org, not us, uk or au. Or nz, I suppose. Languages don't map nicely to countries; there are languages that span many countries (English), countries with more than one official language (Switzerland) and languages with no country (Esperanto).
In this case, "su" refers to the Sundanese language. You probably wanted to link to the Russian Wikipedia, with ISO-639-2 code 'ru'.
Happy to help!
--grendel drago
You know, it's shitty that you got modded down as Flamebait. Because I occasionally see posts like this and I immediately wonder how and where they happen. I've made several thousand edits, and have had someone revert them perhaps once or twice. Maybe this means I'm in line with the groupthink over there, but more likely it's that I make a lot of copyediting and nitpicking edits, not controversial ones.
I strongly urge you to show me the diffs where you got reverted. If you don't know how to do that, tell me the date and the article name and a vague idea of what you contributed (or, better, the username you used if you were logged in), and I'll have a look.
A lot of new editors do get reverted, because a lot of them write "GOATSE ROCKZORZ" on Ollie North's article to feel the power of "do you mean that when I hit submit, it's immediately visible to everyone?!".
Now, I'm not saying that's what you did. And if a good edit got reverted, I want to know about it, because I believe in the project and it pisses me off when that happens. So... show me the edits, or at least the way to them.
--grendel drago
24? Is that you?
--grendel drago
Well, I'd say that makes the current administration's actions toward its "detainees" a violation of everything the country was supposed to stand for, wouldn't you?
... all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness - That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed .
But then again, ignorance seems to be pretty rampant, enough so that Justice Scalia can call the Ten Commandments "a symbol that government derives its authority from God" and not get publically pimp-slapped for it.
'Cause if we go back to the Declaration, it stated that
Scalia, who I'm sure knows better, can get away with this crap because of widespread ignorance. Why the ignorance? I couldn't tell you. But I tell you that this country is based on consent of the governed and preservation of their rights---and an administration that forgets that is a disgrace to the nation.
--grendel drago
But... but...
Oh, wait. You're trolling! I've heard about this!
*backs away slowly*
--grendel drago
I think "no bearing" is a little harsh. The Declaration of Independence is the mission statement on which the country was founded. It contains a rejection of the divine right of kings, and recognition that rights are inherent in humans, not handed down from the government. No, it's not a document with the force of law, but it certainly stated a number of principles on which our law is based. It certainly doesn't have "no bearing" on that law.
--grendel drago
the new UN ambassador who is pledged to destroying the UN
You mean like the old UN ambassador who pissed on the UN when it needed pissing on, Daniel Patrick Moynihan? I certainly hope so.
--grendel drago
... if they were Germans, they were right.
--grendel drago
Dude! You forgot some kind of postmodern mental masturbation! At least, that's what it is so far as I can figure it out. It's not "Time Cube", but it sure is confusing.
--grendel drago
I'm only considered fat by people with frickin' eating disorders. And I've known a few.
And I'm still taller than you. Neener.
--grendel drago
Let's see... I'm over 200 pounds, but I'm over six feet. We'll count that. I own a black duster. Hell, I own two. Half my t-shirts were free giveaways, but I never owned a Star Wars shirt. I grow a beard out of laziness. I own a big black cowboy hat, which is close enough to a fedora. I don't carry a cell phone when I can help it, because I loathe cell phones. And I've never been to a Ren Faire, and won't ever if I can help it.
Man, I made 4.5/7 and didn't even know. Thanks!
--grendel drago
It's a little hard to respect my supervisors when they write like thirteen year olds in the chat room. 'u' and 'lol' and 'k'.
Me: Priority one! Ticket 123456---the server is on fire, notifying coordinators.
Coordinator: u sure? k
For some reason, I assumed people didn't talk like this at work. I don't know where I got that idea from.
We also use an IRC channel as something like a continuously scrolling messageboard, to post important issues we should all be aware of. And yeah, people say 'lol' in it too.
I stopped trying to fix the spelling and grammar of others a while back, but I still think they sound like idiots.
--grendel drago
We're supposed to be switching over to use Lotus SameTime, which has the advantage of displaying full names on the buddy list, so we don't have to figure out that "reaganchk23" is "Alice Smith". Aliases make this a non-issue after the first time you talk to someone, but SameTime makes it simple enough to look up other people as well.
But, of course, this just means that everyone has to run both AIM and SameTime.
--grendel drago
Well, that's frickin' useless if you don't switch to gaim all over the company at once. It's like OpenOffice refusing to save documents in a format readable by MS Word.
I suppose there are probably good, technical reasons for it not working. Still, it'd be nice.
--grendel drago
Did I mention that the AIM users were using AIM encryption with each other? I even get the little lock mini-icon appearing on their buddy list entries.
So... you're saying that gaim's encryption plugin doesn't interoperate with standard AIM's encryption? What good is it then?
I mean, if you can bring yourself to answer a fucking idiot's question...
--grendel drago
I tried to use gaim-encryption with gaim on Windows at work. (We use AIM at work. Seriously.) It didn't seem to interoperate with anyone's vanilla AIM client with encryption. That is, no one was getting my IMs. I didn't have time to fuck with it, so I turned it off and just used unencrypted transport.
You say it works for you, then?
--grendel drago