Have you seen the source code to OS X and realized that there is a lot of room for optimization?
I have installed OS updates, and so far have had a much speedier OS. I know that those beta-testing the next update to the OS say it is even faster. I know there is an unimplemented Window buffer compression feature that is switched off until it is stable enough. For example.
Do you realize that you are paying (in terms of hardware and time) for the slow and completely useless genie effect?
If you can't stand the.5 seconds the genie effect takes then it can be turned off. What's *really* a time-waster: that effect, or trying to install new hardware on a PC? (That is rhetorical.)
Do you realize that Apple advertising is geared towards, well, whoever likes to watch colorful computers skate around on the TV screen?
Totally irrelevant, and meaningless.
Going around calling PC's expensive, and basing comparisons on resale value is not right.
Why? And to clarify, that was only one aspect of comparison.
I can see how old Macs may fetch a higher price: the key element, the appearance, doesn't degrade as quickly as the key element in PCs, which is relative performance.
I disagree, but in any case, what does it matter *why* they have good resale value... so long as they do.
I agree, that historically, old Macs retain their value longer - look at the resale prices on eBay as proof. But this fact is changing, and continues to change, due to marketing decisions, not engineering limitations.
I just don't see this change you're talking about.
Maybe a pre-beige G3 has trouble running OS X (and needs a hack to allow installation). The absolute newest one came out 5 years ago, when OS 8 was just coming out. It would be nice I suppose if these things could still hold their own. But considering Apple has made the most significant OS upgrade since the Mac was created, and considering what a 5 year old PC will get you, I'd say it's really not all that bad.
The point is that someone buying a new Mac now can be pretty sure that it will have good resale value when they are ready to buy a new one. I say that is still true, and will continue to be true. If I buy a G4 Tower or iMac now, it will sell for a good chunk of money in 2 or 3 years.
I bet the resale value aspect of a mac changes soon.
On eBay it looks like my G4/450 is selling for between $700 and $1000, at a glance. And it runs OS X just fine.
Are you saying that in two years or so that G4 won't be worth the $1000? Or that, say, an 8500 can't be resold for that much anymore? If so, then that's pretty obvious I think!
The hardware required to run OS X is so much higher than the previous versions that nobody in their right mind would pay nearly full price for an old mac. That old mac is slow.
Bah, OS X seems slow. When OS 9 came out, it seemed slow. When OS 8 came out, it seemed slow. And so on!
This new OS isn't any different. The only difference is that it still hasn't been fully optimized yet, and so it continues to be speedier at each OS upgrade.
You can sell a used Mac for a very decent amount as well, as long as you've taken good care of it. I could probably get $1000 for my G4 tower, even though it's over two years old.
I explained what I meant by "it just works". I didn't mean "nothing will ever go wrong". I meant, if you want to do something, it is straightforward and quick.
This is one of the most oft-repeated lies in modern computing.
What are you trying to say?
Try buying a bunch of PC parts, putting them all together, making the thing work, installing Linux, and configuring your computer for the internet.
Then compare that to the amount of time, effort, and expertise needed to buy a Mac and set up the Internet, and you'll understand what is meant by "it just works".
You missed my point completely. I never said Macs were cheaper.
You acted as though purchasing a G4 Mac was almost 4x the cost of purchasing a PC. My point is, the price difference is very small if you compare similar computers, plus there are unique things about the Mac that you just can't have on a PC, and I think they are worth something as well. The design of the iMac G4 isn't just for looks, it has function and value. The G4 tower's case is so easy to get into, it's hard not to smile.
It has Unix, Word, Photoshop, and everything just *works*.
The Mac isn't the cheapest thing out there, but I believe you get what you paid for.
Yes. This is the unique thing about Macs. They consistently have a much higher resale value than PCs, to the point that it is definitely something to take into account when purchasing a Mac. You'd be surprised.
I'm sorry, but the die hard mac users are going to have to get with the times...
I think those die-hard Mac users who still think that Macs aren't for geeks are a (sometimes vocal) minority. They are unhappy with how Steve has now significantly changed "their" OS (without asking their permission!), and some just don't like to see geek outsiders coming into their club.
I think a lot of Mac users welcome the influx of geeks because it adds some "legitimacy" to the platform, meaning that if geeks like it, then Apple can't be scoffed at as a toy anymore. And it means Apple more or less got it right with the Unix underpinnings.
pricewatch: athlon XP 2000 with 512 ram, 484. Cheapest apple G4: 1584.
Um, new iMac G4 from Apple store: $1399. With included LCD monitor and CD-RW drive. I'll be willing to bet there are other components in that athlon you named which are also inferior.
And if you are in education you can get the eMac G4 for as low as $999.
Announcer: "It's the Krusty Komedy Klassic!" Krusty: "Hey, hey! It's great to be back at the Apollo Theater, and... [notices the letters behind him] K-K-K? That's not good..."
my Speak and Spell is pretty virus-resistant, too, but you don't hear me bragging about it.
I dunno... did you ever let that thing get low on batteries? I'd swear there was something in there... something evil. It starts to sound like the girl from the Exorcist.
Yeah, Megatron was an awesome toy. It didn't Transform into a half-assed gun-- this thing was quality. Plus, it was metal. At least a good portion was. Very cool.
Montez now understands the e-mails came from Klez-subscribed news lists. But he said that since his free e-mail account only stores a certain amount of messages, he's lost access to the account twice this week. He believes he's also lost a significant amount of business-related e-mails.
On one hand it's a shame that the virus flooded his mailboxes... but if he's using a free email account to conduct business then, well, he should know better. It's not like email accounts are all that expensive.
You know, I think I vaguely knew about that at one time. I think Grimlock was the same deal. Don't know about the others.
But anyway, realistic gun Megatron was definitely being produced even in the mid-80s. Somewhere in the late 80s/early 90s was the big movement to stop realistic gun toys.
Argh, that's the same analogy, only using "test" instead of "paper". Either of these analogies is equivalent to me _selling_ copies of someone's album, so that I'm making money from their efforts. Not just listening to it. Don't you see the difference?
Slashdot Mirror
That's like saying 100% of the Mercedes market is a monopoly, because nobody else makes Mercedes automobiles except Mercedes.
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No?
I have installed OS updates, and so far have had a much speedier OS. I know that those beta-testing the next update to the OS say it is even faster. I know there is an unimplemented Window buffer compression feature that is switched off until it is stable enough. For example.
If you can't stand the
Totally irrelevant, and meaningless.
Why? And to clarify, that was only one aspect of comparison.
I disagree, but in any case, what does it matter *why* they have good resale value... so long as they do.
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I said "it just works", not "everything". And in the context of what I was saying, it makes sense too.
To you, it implies stability. But fine. I'll just come right out and say that Mac OS X is *extreeeeeemly* stable.
Well, for your information, I've never, ever had my system crash since installing OS X 10.0. Many others have had a similar experience.
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I just don't see this change you're talking about.
Maybe a pre-beige G3 has trouble running OS X (and needs a hack to allow installation). The absolute newest one came out 5 years ago, when OS 8 was just coming out. It would be nice I suppose if these things could still hold their own. But considering Apple has made the most significant OS upgrade since the Mac was created, and considering what a 5 year old PC will get you, I'd say it's really not all that bad.
The point is that someone buying a new Mac now can be pretty sure that it will have good resale value when they are ready to buy a new one. I say that is still true, and will continue to be true. If I buy a G4 Tower or iMac now, it will sell for a good chunk of money in 2 or 3 years.
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On eBay it looks like my G4/450 is selling for between $700 and $1000, at a glance. And it runs OS X just fine.
Are you saying that in two years or so that G4 won't be worth the $1000? Or that, say, an 8500 can't be resold for that much anymore? If so, then that's pretty obvious I think!
Bah, OS X seems slow. When OS 9 came out, it seemed slow. When OS 8 came out, it seemed slow. And so on!
This new OS isn't any different. The only difference is that it still hasn't been fully optimized yet, and so it continues to be speedier at each OS upgrade.
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because they couldn't classify the article as both "Apple" and "Book Review" so they chose book review, and then also linked to that article here.
Still silly though.
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You can sell a used Mac for a very decent amount as well, as long as you've taken good care of it. I could probably get $1000 for my G4 tower, even though it's over two years old.
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I explained what I meant by "it just works". I didn't mean "nothing will ever go wrong". I meant, if you want to do something, it is straightforward and quick.
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What are you trying to say?
Try buying a bunch of PC parts, putting them all together, making the thing work, installing Linux, and configuring your computer for the internet.
Then compare that to the amount of time, effort, and expertise needed to buy a Mac and set up the Internet, and you'll understand what is meant by "it just works".
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You missed my point completely. I never said Macs were cheaper.
You acted as though purchasing a G4 Mac was almost 4x the cost of purchasing a PC. My point is, the price difference is very small if you compare similar computers, plus there are unique things about the Mac that you just can't have on a PC, and I think they are worth something as well. The design of the iMac G4 isn't just for looks, it has function and value. The G4 tower's case is so easy to get into, it's hard not to smile.
It has Unix, Word, Photoshop, and everything just *works*.
The Mac isn't the cheapest thing out there, but I believe you get what you paid for.
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Yes. This is the unique thing about Macs. They consistently have a much higher resale value than PCs, to the point that it is definitely something to take into account when purchasing a Mac. You'd be surprised.
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I think those die-hard Mac users who still think that Macs aren't for geeks are a (sometimes vocal) minority. They are unhappy with how Steve has now significantly changed "their" OS (without asking their permission!), and some just don't like to see geek outsiders coming into their club.
I think a lot of Mac users welcome the influx of geeks because it adds some "legitimacy" to the platform, meaning that if geeks like it, then Apple can't be scoffed at as a toy anymore. And it means Apple more or less got it right with the Unix underpinnings.
Just my thoughts as a long time Mac user.
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Speaking of paying no attention, it's a PC133.
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Um, new iMac G4 from Apple store: $1399. With included LCD monitor and CD-RW drive. I'll be willing to bet there are other components in that athlon you named which are also inferior.
And if you are in education you can get the eMac G4 for as low as $999.
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When compared with an equally equipped x86 machine, and taking into account the quality and resale value... yes, low cost.
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LOL, that's a great one!
Announcer: "It's the Krusty Komedy Klassic!"
Krusty: "Hey, hey! It's great to be back at the Apollo Theater, and... [notices the letters behind him] K-K-K? That's not good..."
I dunno... did you ever let that thing get low on batteries? I'd swear there was something in there... something evil. It starts to sound like the girl from the Exorcist.
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Yeah, Megatron was an awesome toy. It didn't Transform into a half-assed gun-- this thing was quality. Plus, it was metal. At least a good portion was. Very cool.
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On one hand it's a shame that the virus flooded his mailboxes... but if he's using a free email account to conduct business then, well, he should know better. It's not like email accounts are all that expensive.
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You know, I think I vaguely knew about that at one time. I think Grimlock was the same deal. Don't know about the others.
But anyway, realistic gun Megatron was definitely being produced even in the mid-80s. Somewhere in the late 80s/early 90s was the big movement to stop realistic gun toys.
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Maybe using Jetfire would be a bit rough... consider the He-Man universe though. My weapon of choice would be Ram-Man, of course!
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Megatron came out in 1984, so this was before everything had to be neon colored. This was when toys were TOYS!
I believe there were actually more attachments as well that could make the gun into a rifle of sorts... am I remembering correctly?
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Not to mention the fact that although it talks about the Web as a whole decaying, he ignored the non-English-speaking Web.
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Argh, that's the same analogy, only using "test" instead of "paper". Either of these analogies is equivalent to me _selling_ copies of someone's album, so that I'm making money from their efforts. Not just listening to it. Don't you see the difference?
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