Don't try to be logical and rational about this. It's propaganda. 20 parts per billion, after measuring it for... 10 years. They really do think we're stupid.
I just want to confuse the issue. The photon travels at the speed of light. From the photon's point of view it "arrives" as soon as it departed due to time dilation. In order to travel an infinite distance in zero time, the distance travelled must be zero too (Lorentz Contraction). So from our point of view the photon has taken 14.7 billion ly to travel from the edge of the observable universe to our telescope. From its point of view it's travelled nowhere in zero time.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not a physicist. I read about this and thought it completely ridiculous...
Who knows. It certainly could be the foundations of something really quite sinister. On the other hand it could be just what it claims to be: aid to prevent and track down evildoers [sic]. We've been here before in the UK with CCTV. It's become something of a cliche to say it's Orwellian. But you know, the world is changing. Absolutely everybody and their mum has an HD video camera permanently on their person. What can I do about that to protect my privacy? Seemingly nothing.
Why are you worried about Fascism in Europe? The EU is full of ex-Marxists busy constructing a new USSR. What did say?
“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.
- Mikhail Gorbachev
”
Yes, it is within the bounds of the law but it's bad politics. Firstly the rationale is, what, that Trump isn't "fit to be President". Would Clinton pass such a fitness test? How are you going to judge that in a non-partisan way?
This "fake news" narrative is bollocks. People seek out news and information that confirms their preexisting prejudices. If people are believing "fake news" it's an issue for the education system to deal with - i.e. stop pumping out unthinking drones lacking in a broad general knowledge. Algorithms and people tagging stories as fake is extremely sinister.
I just want to comment, tangentially, that Iceland is one of the most fucking awful shops in business in the UK. It's cheap crap. I have no idea what's in their frozen "chicken" and I don't want to know either.
No that's not true at all. Precisely zero experiments are wrong if this is right because this is claiming to be an effect never tested before. It's probably experimental error of course. AFAIK Maxwell's equations don't include quantized inertia.
I know what the "laws of physics" are (currently) you condescending git. If you remember not long ago a big hunt for experimental error with respect to neutrino detection was under way, to avoid an experiment apparently violating the speed of light - with a great deal of speculation included some of it completely off the wall. In the end the error was found. The same is true of the Pioneer Anomaly which it turns out is a thermal effect. These things happen all of the time. That doesn't mean nobody will ever discover anything new, like Unruh Radiation.
If you want to be a smart-arse about it knock yourself out. I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt though. NASA love the publicity these things bring and I quite like the fact they're game enough to try it out even though people like you poo-poo them for doing so. Still as of right now the effect being real hasn't been ruled out.
Perhaps I think there's an effect here that needs explaining, whereas you don't seem to. I mean you're literally saying, "this isn't possible". It's almost as if you're closed-minded or something.
I didn't dismiss the paper immediately based on paradigms or preconceptions whereas you seemingly have. So out of us two I'm not sure I'm the one who isn't listening.
Well, here's the problem. If I'm a lobby journalist I depend on my relationships with people in power to get paid. They're not paying me, they're giving me the information I need to write. If I'm mean to them they'll shut me out and then I won't get paid. So where am I supposed to go for the news? Journalists these days are spoon fed. There's very little actual investigative reporting going on (as a proportion of the number of people actually writing and broadcasting). This does leave a big gap in reporting to fill. It's not really much of a surprise to me it gets filled with nutjob wack-o stories. You get to choose whether you want to read those or the bullshit of some spin doctor who's feeding rubbish to his list of contacts in journalism.
You know what this looks like to an averagely sceptical reader? It looks like certain people, mostly on the left, think that "fake news" was the reason people voted Trump instead of Clinton. It's true that Hillary lost due to fake news, but it wasn't fake news from Trump supporters. It was fake news from her own supporters. Headlines from publications like Huffington saying that she had a 98% chance of winning resulted in many liberals staying home. Trump didn't do that much better than Romney last time.
All I'm seeing is an appeal to censor political opponents.
The biggest lies I see on news channels these days are lies of omission. It's not really what they are telling you that's important, it's what they aren't telling you.
Not if it's extracting work from the vacuum. I'm not "supporting" this thing, the Pioneer Anomaly turned out to be thermal effects after all, but I think these things are fun to imagine and think about. And perhaps occasionally it's useful to spend a little money on investigating them, just in case we're missing something.
My understanding is that they think it may be extracting work from the vacuum which implies it's not violating conservation of energy. For what it's worth I think it's most likely there's some sort of thermal error here that's causing the documented effect. It's still interesting to think about but I don't consider this paper to be a confirmation.
Slashdot Mirror
It'll be interesting to see how quickly scientists and institutions desperate for funding start to adjust their data in the other direction.
I have to say the next 4 years are going to be extremely funny.
Don't try to be logical and rational about this. It's propaganda. 20 parts per billion, after measuring it for ... 10 years. They really do think we're stupid.
I just want to confuse the issue. The photon travels at the speed of light. From the photon's point of view it "arrives" as soon as it departed due to time dilation. In order to travel an infinite distance in zero time, the distance travelled must be zero too (Lorentz Contraction). So from our point of view the photon has taken 14.7 billion ly to travel from the edge of the observable universe to our telescope. From its point of view it's travelled nowhere in zero time.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not a physicist. I read about this and thought it completely ridiculous...
Who knows. It certainly could be the foundations of something really quite sinister. On the other hand it could be just what it claims to be: aid to prevent and track down evildoers [sic]. We've been here before in the UK with CCTV. It's become something of a cliche to say it's Orwellian. But you know, the world is changing. Absolutely everybody and their mum has an HD video camera permanently on their person. What can I do about that to protect my privacy? Seemingly nothing.
Yes, it is within the bounds of the law but it's bad politics. Firstly the rationale is, what, that Trump isn't "fit to be President". Would Clinton pass such a fitness test? How are you going to judge that in a non-partisan way?
This "fake news" narrative is bollocks. People seek out news and information that confirms their preexisting prejudices. If people are believing "fake news" it's an issue for the education system to deal with - i.e. stop pumping out unthinking drones lacking in a broad general knowledge. Algorithms and people tagging stories as fake is extremely sinister.
CNN? The BBC? Ahahahahahahaha. You're a funny guy.
Seriously, come on. FPS in VR is fucking awful. I'd need a bin liner-sized sick bag strapped to my face.
I just want to comment, tangentially, that Iceland is one of the most fucking awful shops in business in the UK. It's cheap crap. I have no idea what's in their frozen "chicken" and I don't want to know either.
Breitbart Tech is excellent. Whenever I go there I head right to that section. The rest of it is fucking awful.
No that's not true at all. Precisely zero experiments are wrong if this is right because this is claiming to be an effect never tested before. It's probably experimental error of course. AFAIK Maxwell's equations don't include quantized inertia.
I know what the "laws of physics" are (currently) you condescending git. If you remember not long ago a big hunt for experimental error with respect to neutrino detection was under way, to avoid an experiment apparently violating the speed of light - with a great deal of speculation included some of it completely off the wall. In the end the error was found. The same is true of the Pioneer Anomaly which it turns out is a thermal effect. These things happen all of the time. That doesn't mean nobody will ever discover anything new, like Unruh Radiation.
If you want to be a smart-arse about it knock yourself out. I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt though. NASA love the publicity these things bring and I quite like the fact they're game enough to try it out even though people like you poo-poo them for doing so. Still as of right now the effect being real hasn't been ruled out.
Apart from consciousness.
Perhaps I think there's an effect here that needs explaining, whereas you don't seem to. I mean you're literally saying, "this isn't possible". It's almost as if you're closed-minded or something.
I didn't dismiss the paper immediately based on paradigms or preconceptions whereas you seemingly have. So out of us two I'm not sure I'm the one who isn't listening.
Well, here's the problem. If I'm a lobby journalist I depend on my relationships with people in power to get paid. They're not paying me, they're giving me the information I need to write. If I'm mean to them they'll shut me out and then I won't get paid. So where am I supposed to go for the news? Journalists these days are spoon fed. There's very little actual investigative reporting going on (as a proportion of the number of people actually writing and broadcasting). This does leave a big gap in reporting to fill. It's not really much of a surprise to me it gets filled with nutjob wack-o stories. You get to choose whether you want to read those or the bullshit of some spin doctor who's feeding rubbish to his list of contacts in journalism.
You know what this looks like to an averagely sceptical reader? It looks like certain people, mostly on the left, think that "fake news" was the reason people voted Trump instead of Clinton. It's true that Hillary lost due to fake news, but it wasn't fake news from Trump supporters. It was fake news from her own supporters. Headlines from publications like Huffington saying that she had a 98% chance of winning resulted in many liberals staying home. Trump didn't do that much better than Romney last time.
All I'm seeing is an appeal to censor political opponents.
The biggest lies I see on news channels these days are lies of omission. It's not really what they are telling you that's important, it's what they aren't telling you.
Yes but isn't that what they're saying? It's extracting work from the vacuum? Something is losing energy.
Not if it's extracting work from the vacuum. I'm not "supporting" this thing, the Pioneer Anomaly turned out to be thermal effects after all, but I think these things are fun to imagine and think about. And perhaps occasionally it's useful to spend a little money on investigating them, just in case we're missing something.
My understanding is that they think it may be extracting work from the vacuum which implies it's not violating conservation of energy. For what it's worth I think it's most likely there's some sort of thermal error here that's causing the documented effect. It's still interesting to think about but I don't consider this paper to be a confirmation.
How is it perpetual motion? The EM drive obeys the law of conservation of energy.
Which laws of physics does it violate? None that I'm aware of.
It's like defence spending. People always complain about the cost but never think about the cost if you hadn't spent the money and were defenceless.